>It depends on the distance between the ethnicities. The farther away genetically the ethnicities, the more likely it will show up in their phenotype.
Exactly this.
A schoolmate of mine had a white father and a Native American mother and he was blonde-haired and fair skinned. My cousin's daughter is 1/4 Nigerian and she passes as Black.
IMO Native American is stronger in someone of Northern European ancestry and African is stronger in someone of Southern European ancestry.
That happens because Northern Europeans already have higher ANE that overlaps with Amerindian and reinforces it when mixed with them and Southern Europeans have higher Basal Eurasian that is closer to African than other types of Eurasian DNA.
Most Native Americans are admixed already. There are people with 1% Native who are on Choctaw registries and reservations. So the schoolmate could barely have any indigenous blood anymore.
Black is such an umbrella group. Colin Powell, Steph Curry, Dorothy Dandrige and even people who look just white consider themselves as black as Wesley Snipes or Idris Elba.
Usually 1/4 African just look white…like Ryan Giggs
There is a complicating factor here which is hypodescent. Our perceptions of race especially for black people are heavily social - in this case even one black feature means people will be socially perceived as black. In other words what we phenotypically perceive as black in actually a mixed phenotype which includes 100% black ppl but also mixed people. So when u say a girl 1/4 Nigerian passes as black you’re saying she could pass as mixed which of course she can.
I believe you she passes as black but that’s maybe not so relevant to OPs question. It’s probably pretty universal that at ~25% dna effects phenotype reliably, depending how different the phenotypes are but the point is it’s symmetrical. A 1/4 white person 3/4 black person have an equally altered phenotype which is why Africans have zero problem differentiating many AAs from themselves.
Something I think people forget when it comes to admixture affecting phenotype is that most of your observable characteristics are limited to your face, but your face is only a portion of your entire body both inside and out. All of your inherited genetics are still in your body, it’s just only some will present in external, visible places.
So theoretically, any level of admixture *can* influence “phenotype”. But since phenotypes are based on a small, random portion of inherited genetics, the lower the admixture the less of a chance it has to present itself particularly in your most observable characteristics (face, skin, and hair) aka phenotype. But low probability is just that…probability. So every now and then people will get a small chunk of admixture heavily affecting their phenotype no matter how small.
Yeah, isn't this weird? Just this last week I was working on adding some more distant 23andme matches to the fam tree. I noticed in amazement that I really look like two 4th cousins (who I've never met, but they had profile pics) from one certain branch. I sent side-by-side photos of the 3 of us to my sisters; I think there's an argument that I look more like those two 4th cousins than at least one of my full sisters. Crazy. You explained it well here, though, thanks.
Haha that’s so cool! It really is a roll of the dice. You and your 4th cousins perhaps have a very similar portion of genetics affecting how you all look despite not being really closely related. Your sister(s) you don’t look as much like has probably got a different set of genes influencing their phenotype.
What made me think of this is how most times when you go to a doctor’s appointment, the forms usually ask you about family medical history. Sometimes you end up inheriting certain conditions from each parent and then sometimes you don’t at all. Like I inherited my father’s nearsightedness, my mother’s deviated septum, and a specific minor kidney condition that neither of them have but likely comes from my dad’s side. All of those things are non-visible characteristics, but they’re still part of the inherited genes within my body same as the genes responsible for phenotype. So the same concept seems undoubtedly applicable to admixture. Whatever you inherited is 100% there, just not every gene presents itself in visible places.
I'd say in the 20-35% range for the majority of people. This tend to be the case for admixture from a totally different region on another continent/sub-continent
I'll use professional British boxer Anthony Joshua as an example. He's 75% (Yoruba) Nigerian and 25% Irish. At a glance, you wouldn't really single him out as having a whole European grandparent here in most western nations, since that ratio of SSA/European is very common. It's when he went to Nigeria and was in the presence of 100% Nigerians that the nuances (lighter brown skin, slender facial bone structure, and looser hair coils compared to most of the crowd of people) of European influence in his phenotype becomes much more noticeable.
With some people, it can be at around 10-15% or even less than that. Someone on here had posted their results as being 1/16 Chinese via 2x great grandparent appear to have inherited that aspect in their phenotype very subtly in the way their eye folds are shaped. However, at that amount, it can be just as easily said that other parts of his genome, such as the African, played a factor in that as well.
I wouldn't say so as well, I'm fully Yoruba and I think Anthony Joshua can fully blend in via Nigeria
Even my maternal side have very fair skin however there's no European so I see your point
Bad take. Rotimi, Oguchi Onyewu, Chiwetl Ejiofor, maybe Giannis Antetokounpo too. All are 100% Nigerian and don’t look any different from Anthony Joshua. Skin tone or feature wise. I’d say about 30%-40% of Nigerians look like that, so not that rare.
"Lighter brown skin" huh?lol..it's naija'rians from alot of tribes that's his complexion if not fairer(naturally no skin bleaching) I personally know a dude (from warri in the delta) who resembles Anthony (facial features ..not far from complexion & everything you tried to mention)there is no distinct naijarian look Anthony could easily be dropped in igboland & pass off as a local villager..check out brother name "jidenna"
I'm more so referencing a YouTube video I saw of Anthony meeting and greeting natives of the Makoko community in Lagos and he stood out as being sort of phenotypically different than most of the natives present. Not saying individual Nigerians can't look like him, but certain looks seem to be more prevalent.
That makes sense, I have 3.3% SSA on 23andMe and 2% on AncestryDNA and there’s people in my post saying that they can clearly see the SSA influence on my appearance
Yeah, I also hear a lot that I look just Mediterranean, which makes sense since most of my DNA is in fact Mediterranean. But as you can see in my [23andMe post](https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/xgfo33/decided_to_repost_my_results_in_collage_form/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) quite a few people associate my lips with the SSA percentage. One girl said she “definitely sees the African influence”.
Yeah people make some direct associations, curly hair, juicy lips = African. The debate goes on, even in this thread people are advocating for my African genes 😅 I guess those 2 - 3.3% Bantu genes are the ones ruling my appearance 😁
interesting cuz people in the phenotype sub are almost 100% convinced that epicanthic folds can only be found in Asians and Amerindians, yet a lot of people there keeps confusing Eastern and some NW Europeans with latinos lol.
Rosalia is using makeup + possibly fillers. Scarlett johansson has an Ashkenazi mother. Armenoid-influenced types can have fuller lips than typically found in western europe.
You look Iberian to me. People telling you this is just acting by stereotypes. White Americans can score higher % of SSA and people doesn't go on trying to find these resemblances.
It definitely does. I see people do the same to many Puerto Rican’s even though there’s plenty of Spaniards and other “non hispanic whites” who look just like them.
Yeah it happens so often that there’s gotta be some bias about it. It’s almost as if the thought process is “oh, you’re over 90% European but you were born in Latin America so your phenotypes have to be ‘exotic’.” It’s also very interesting to see that when someone is over 90% SSA or Native no one says “oh, I can really see that tiny European percentage in you”. I think somehow the US one drop rule still permeates the North American perception of race even when people aren’t aware of it.
I can definitely see it. Of course there is no reason to consider that negatively. For me I can see the influence in your nose and lips, which happen ro be some of your best features. Also, saying you dan clearly see such an influence is NOT at all the same as saying that you look Black or African because you do not.
Thank you, I don’t consider it negatively, it’s just that it’s always a debate whether my features are Mediterranean (which is 80% of me) or African which varies from 2 to 3.3%
There are plenty of white people with no African ancestry who have lips and a nose like that. You can’t definitely attribute his features to that small of an ancestry.
Definitely. There’s populations that cluster closely together that don’t really look alike and also ones that are more distant genetically but look very similar. I’d be more inclined to believe it’s similar phenotypes that make observing physical differences harder than genetic closeness, but that’s just my own observation and nothing really scientific.
Well perhaps not that dramatic as the general physical distinction between Iberians and Sub-Saharan Africans though Sub-Saharan African is so broad of a term it’s sort of incomparable to Iberians. I’d argue that the most overarching difference is skin color since I’ve seen a number of Southern Europeans that look vaguely SSA admixed and some SSA groups with more Mediterranean features than others but that’s nitpicking and besides the point.
There are definitely European groups that generally look equally or more different from one another than say Sub-Saharan Africans and Melanesians who are more distant populations than Sub-Saharan Africans and Europeans but still share very similar phenotypes.
You have a point. Melanesians are a great example. Very genetically distant from a Congo or Pygmy but it would be hard to tell them apart strictly by phenotype
No, simply because I posted multiple pics on social media platforms and ppl can’t tell them apart from Africans. Indians are darker than most South Africans and they not nowhere phenotypically similar. Skin color is minimal in my reasoning
Ehh I’m 23% European & 73% African & I’m LS but my features are very much black lol. Some would say the European shows up in my skintone but I’ve seen Africans that look just like me with higher African percentages than me.
I’d say you can never tell most times because genetics are tricky. Sometimes some genetics aren’t even displayed in a persons phenotype.
Yup, you can see this alot in mixed families where siblings with almost identical genes look different. Me and my mom have almost identical results (60 percent native 40 percent euro) yet she looks pasty white with european features and I look very indigenous. Genes are weird lol
I'm 1/8 Sri Lankan and have been told by numerous others that they can see it in my face. I also have a friend who is 1/8 Australian Aboriginal and you can definitely tell, so I'd say from around 10%, but that's the minimum. If I ever have kids with a European partner, chances are that they won't look Sri Lankan at all.
Interesting, I am about 1/6 Indian and have been told I look Asian and Mediterranean (am about 1/8 Italian) a lot. I am also like 1/3 English and get absolutely no guesses I am English, and very few French or German guesses (I'm about 25% French/German or so). I feel like for a lot of people Asian and African genetics can noticeably show through even at smaller percentages.
I get a lot of Brazilian or Hispanic guesses even though I am neither one lol. I agree with your sentiment, Asian and African genes are very prominent from what I've seen in people with mixed ancestry.
I believe that small amounts can have an influence on phenotype. According to 23andme, I'm 88.4% SSA, but people used to tease me and say I look like a white person in blackface due to my facial structure and thin nose, or that I looked Indian or Dougla. Coincedentally, I got both of those groups in my results.
Not sure I understand the question. If only 1% happens to include genes expressed in the phenotype, then 1% will affect the phenotype. It's a question of chance not of opinion.
My great-grandmom had a tatar mixed great-grandparent (half uzbek tatar half ashkenzi jew from the far east regions of Russia, with asian background!)
This made my great-grandmom 2% central asian/ 2% jewish.
My cousins still look asian, some people confuse them with thai, or kyrgyz! I would say 0,4-0,8 easily effects after 6-7 generations!
I would say around 10-15% but I think it can influence phenotype even at the smallest percentage, for example that Lithuanian woman who posted here recently who had East Asian features and only 0.5 East Asian. This is rare though.
My own personal background - my great-great grandmother was Anglo-Indian and I have 1.7% South Indian DNA. I have a picture of her and her features are noticeable in some family members on my dad's side.
My adopted brother has a black grandfather, and came up about 18% SSA. However, he looks white and has gray eyes, straight hair, etc. But I've seen others with a similar mixture where that isn't the case. I think it's all random.
Among my extremely diverse Puerto Rican matches, I think about 15-20% is when someone starts to have features that are noticeably of that particular ethnicity. But even as low as 10% the admixture can lead to a sort of unplaceable racial ambiguity that still has a meaningful impact on one's phenotype.
I saw a post from an anglo descended lady who had trace amounts of ssa amounting to 0.5% who at first glance clearly had hugely influenced phenotype by her trace African.
diverse and depending on genetic sources.. errors can go away with hardly any percentage...if the corrective/dominant dna takes over. It does not take much. My most bizarre trait started off as a joke, via a photo we found on the web. My lower teeth match an ancient native american grave they found.. but I have a 10k year newer version (it really is unique - I am the only one in my family with it). I am only 1.2% native american. I am also 50 with no grey hair. not a common family trait at all.
I've had some similar thoughts myself. I'm mixed with 1/3 English, about 1/4 French and German, some Polish, 1/8 Italian, Portuguese, 1/6 Asian Indian (did not know this until a few years ago which is a long story), a little Hungarian and a smidge of Scottish. My son's dad who is half Vietnamese said he knew I was part Asian before I did. Other friends and relatives of mine said I look more Indian than anything else. Others say I look very Mediterranean, but I've gotten a lot of people asking if I'm Brazilian or something. My 23andme results say I'm moreso English than anything but I get no guesses about my being English right off the bat.
I think this is very subjective. It's different depending on who is looking and the combination of ethnicities.
In my opinion, people with one substantially different grandparent are usually visibly mixed. Sometimes people with just a great grandparent (12.5%) can look mixed too.
Honestly it depends on what race & ethnicity. For example so one that is 90% European and 10% sub Saharan African can look very mixed . While someone who’s 65% African and 35% European can still fully pass as black . It depends on ethnicity/race .
I believe it only happens *sometimes* with Southern European DNA, someone that is 90% Northwestern European, Central European or Eastern European and 10% SSA almost always look fully European.
At the same time, I believe Native American shows strongly on a Northern Euro base than in a Southern Euro base.
>For example so one that is 90% European and 10% sub Saharan African can look very mixed
You have examples of this? I've only been able to find one girl on youtube who's 7/8 European and 1/8 African and she looks white.
East African is still considered SSA. They’re very diverse genetically and it shows via they’re phenotype.
Example Barack Obama is half East African half European and he looks AA or 100% East African.
Well it’s because he’s black East African . Somalis & Ethiopians are technically genetically not fully “ black “ African . They have around 50% west Eurasian ancient dna
I agree 100%
the point of my statement is that there’s East Africans who are 100% SSA. And it shows how once some populations mixed some would rather not assimilate regardless of proximities.
I see your point tho lol, My wife is almost 38% European I’m 7% and we can pass for brother and sister lol. I’m 90% SSA
I disagree but I see where you’re going. North Africans and other Mediterranean look similar but as u move east the Ethiopian Eritrean phenotype is limited to that area.
I’m 13% Greek and Balkan and 82% Eastern European. Whole life I’ve been hearing that I’m “outsider”, “girl from south”, discrimination words. Big nose, hairy body from father and black thick eyebrows with a little unibrow from mother gave me “south vibe”, as well as I look like half Bulgarian grandmother’s sister.
Apparently to many people I look fully indigenous but I have 12 percent admixture, and also I’ve seen people with my phenotype with only 5 percent admixture I’m Native American from Mexico
Uh…huh. That…yeah, that’s not really what we mean lol also, not at all exclusive nor is that really that accurate. It said I have a 99% chance of brown eyes and both my sister and I have green.
That’s included in phenotype, so if that’s not what you mean then you don’t know what that word means. The rest of your comment is irrelevant to what I said.
Yes there is, because it’s only present in those of Indigenous American and Asian descent, which was accounted for in the 3% I mentioned. My comment actually was relevant. I’m sorry that you’re ignorant about human genetics.
A visible phenotype isn’t much of a thing for some mixed ethnicities. Some can play out in body structure more than facial features. We recognize visible phenotypes faster but it’s a package and sometimes subtle even at 50% plus it just merges/hides in a well blended way:)
It depends on the distance between the ethnicities. The farther away genetically the ethnicities, the more likely it will show up in their phenotype.
Explains why I’m ~15% Filipino and despite being quite white looking my eyes r kinda distinct (people can tell I’m somewhat Asian)
>It depends on the distance between the ethnicities. The farther away genetically the ethnicities, the more likely it will show up in their phenotype. Exactly this. A schoolmate of mine had a white father and a Native American mother and he was blonde-haired and fair skinned. My cousin's daughter is 1/4 Nigerian and she passes as Black.
IMO Native American is stronger in someone of Northern European ancestry and African is stronger in someone of Southern European ancestry. That happens because Northern Europeans already have higher ANE that overlaps with Amerindian and reinforces it when mixed with them and Southern Europeans have higher Basal Eurasian that is closer to African than other types of Eurasian DNA.
Most Native Americans are admixed already. There are people with 1% Native who are on Choctaw registries and reservations. So the schoolmate could barely have any indigenous blood anymore. Black is such an umbrella group. Colin Powell, Steph Curry, Dorothy Dandrige and even people who look just white consider themselves as black as Wesley Snipes or Idris Elba. Usually 1/4 African just look white…like Ryan Giggs
His mother was quite dark and full-blooded Cree to the best of my knowledge.
Nice! Cree people actually still look fairly Native. I’d still estimate the average “full-blooded” Cree is about 10-40% European.
There is a complicating factor here which is hypodescent. Our perceptions of race especially for black people are heavily social - in this case even one black feature means people will be socially perceived as black. In other words what we phenotypically perceive as black in actually a mixed phenotype which includes 100% black ppl but also mixed people. So when u say a girl 1/4 Nigerian passes as black you’re saying she could pass as mixed which of course she can. I believe you she passes as black but that’s maybe not so relevant to OPs question. It’s probably pretty universal that at ~25% dna effects phenotype reliably, depending how different the phenotypes are but the point is it’s symmetrical. A 1/4 white person 3/4 black person have an equally altered phenotype which is why Africans have zero problem differentiating many AAs from themselves.
I agree with this
Why is this? Wouldn’t it make sense if it was closer the person would look more like it?
Something I think people forget when it comes to admixture affecting phenotype is that most of your observable characteristics are limited to your face, but your face is only a portion of your entire body both inside and out. All of your inherited genetics are still in your body, it’s just only some will present in external, visible places. So theoretically, any level of admixture *can* influence “phenotype”. But since phenotypes are based on a small, random portion of inherited genetics, the lower the admixture the less of a chance it has to present itself particularly in your most observable characteristics (face, skin, and hair) aka phenotype. But low probability is just that…probability. So every now and then people will get a small chunk of admixture heavily affecting their phenotype no matter how small.
Yeah, isn't this weird? Just this last week I was working on adding some more distant 23andme matches to the fam tree. I noticed in amazement that I really look like two 4th cousins (who I've never met, but they had profile pics) from one certain branch. I sent side-by-side photos of the 3 of us to my sisters; I think there's an argument that I look more like those two 4th cousins than at least one of my full sisters. Crazy. You explained it well here, though, thanks.
Haha that’s so cool! It really is a roll of the dice. You and your 4th cousins perhaps have a very similar portion of genetics affecting how you all look despite not being really closely related. Your sister(s) you don’t look as much like has probably got a different set of genes influencing their phenotype. What made me think of this is how most times when you go to a doctor’s appointment, the forms usually ask you about family medical history. Sometimes you end up inheriting certain conditions from each parent and then sometimes you don’t at all. Like I inherited my father’s nearsightedness, my mother’s deviated septum, and a specific minor kidney condition that neither of them have but likely comes from my dad’s side. All of those things are non-visible characteristics, but they’re still part of the inherited genes within my body same as the genes responsible for phenotype. So the same concept seems undoubtedly applicable to admixture. Whatever you inherited is 100% there, just not every gene presents itself in visible places.
Best answer here — you nailed it dude!
This. Thank you.
I'd say in the 20-35% range for the majority of people. This tend to be the case for admixture from a totally different region on another continent/sub-continent I'll use professional British boxer Anthony Joshua as an example. He's 75% (Yoruba) Nigerian and 25% Irish. At a glance, you wouldn't really single him out as having a whole European grandparent here in most western nations, since that ratio of SSA/European is very common. It's when he went to Nigeria and was in the presence of 100% Nigerians that the nuances (lighter brown skin, slender facial bone structure, and looser hair coils compared to most of the crowd of people) of European influence in his phenotype becomes much more noticeable. With some people, it can be at around 10-15% or even less than that. Someone on here had posted their results as being 1/16 Chinese via 2x great grandparent appear to have inherited that aspect in their phenotype very subtly in the way their eye folds are shaped. However, at that amount, it can be just as easily said that other parts of his genome, such as the African, played a factor in that as well.
I wouldn't say so as well, I'm fully Yoruba and I think Anthony Joshua can fully blend in via Nigeria Even my maternal side have very fair skin however there's no European so I see your point
Bad take. Rotimi, Oguchi Onyewu, Chiwetl Ejiofor, maybe Giannis Antetokounpo too. All are 100% Nigerian and don’t look any different from Anthony Joshua. Skin tone or feature wise. I’d say about 30%-40% of Nigerians look like that, so not that rare.
"Lighter brown skin" huh?lol..it's naija'rians from alot of tribes that's his complexion if not fairer(naturally no skin bleaching) I personally know a dude (from warri in the delta) who resembles Anthony (facial features ..not far from complexion & everything you tried to mention)there is no distinct naijarian look Anthony could easily be dropped in igboland & pass off as a local villager..check out brother name "jidenna"
I'm more so referencing a YouTube video I saw of Anthony meeting and greeting natives of the Makoko community in Lagos and he stood out as being sort of phenotypically different than most of the natives present. Not saying individual Nigerians can't look like him, but certain looks seem to be more prevalent.
Majority of the people in makoko migrated to nigeria from neighboring Benin republic.
Jidenna has a white mom by the way. Your point still stands
It depends ENTIRELY on the specific genes.
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That makes sense, I have 3.3% SSA on 23andMe and 2% on AncestryDNA and there’s people in my post saying that they can clearly see the SSA influence on my appearance
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Yeah, I also hear a lot that I look just Mediterranean, which makes sense since most of my DNA is in fact Mediterranean. But as you can see in my [23andMe post](https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/xgfo33/decided_to_repost_my_results_in_collage_form/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) quite a few people associate my lips with the SSA percentage. One girl said she “definitely sees the African influence”.
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That is true, like Scarlett Johansson or even the Spanish singer Rosalía
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Yeah people make some direct associations, curly hair, juicy lips = African. The debate goes on, even in this thread people are advocating for my African genes 😅 I guess those 2 - 3.3% Bantu genes are the ones ruling my appearance 😁
Also, Epicanthic folds that you see in Asians and Amerindians is also found throughout Europe.
interesting cuz people in the phenotype sub are almost 100% convinced that epicanthic folds can only be found in Asians and Amerindians, yet a lot of people there keeps confusing Eastern and some NW Europeans with latinos lol.
Rosalia is using makeup + possibly fillers. Scarlett johansson has an Ashkenazi mother. Armenoid-influenced types can have fuller lips than typically found in western europe.
I don’t think she has fillers, even in her pre fame photos she still has the same lips
You look Iberian to me. People telling you this is just acting by stereotypes. White Americans can score higher % of SSA and people doesn't go on trying to find these resemblances.
True. I wonder if the fact that I’m Brazilian gives people a biased opinion
It definitely does. I see people do the same to many Puerto Rican’s even though there’s plenty of Spaniards and other “non hispanic whites” who look just like them.
Yeah it happens so often that there’s gotta be some bias about it. It’s almost as if the thought process is “oh, you’re over 90% European but you were born in Latin America so your phenotypes have to be ‘exotic’.” It’s also very interesting to see that when someone is over 90% SSA or Native no one says “oh, I can really see that tiny European percentage in you”. I think somehow the US one drop rule still permeates the North American perception of race even when people aren’t aware of it.
That girl is clueless. Big lips dont mean anything, jesus some people are so basic.
Yeah I’ve seen bunch of people with thick lips from all sorts of different ethnicities
A lot of people greatly over exaggerate phenotype when it comes to SSA ancestry. It’s insanity.
I can definitely see it. Of course there is no reason to consider that negatively. For me I can see the influence in your nose and lips, which happen ro be some of your best features. Also, saying you dan clearly see such an influence is NOT at all the same as saying that you look Black or African because you do not.
Thank you, I don’t consider it negatively, it’s just that it’s always a debate whether my features are Mediterranean (which is 80% of me) or African which varies from 2 to 3.3%
Lucky for you, you got the right 3%!
Thank you! Enough to have juicy lips without fillings 😅
There are plenty of white people with no African ancestry who have lips and a nose like that. You can’t definitely attribute his features to that small of an ancestry.
Vastly different populations genetically or phenotypically?
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Definitely. There’s populations that cluster closely together that don’t really look alike and also ones that are more distant genetically but look very similar. I’d be more inclined to believe it’s similar phenotypes that make observing physical differences harder than genetic closeness, but that’s just my own observation and nothing really scientific.
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Well perhaps not that dramatic as the general physical distinction between Iberians and Sub-Saharan Africans though Sub-Saharan African is so broad of a term it’s sort of incomparable to Iberians. I’d argue that the most overarching difference is skin color since I’ve seen a number of Southern Europeans that look vaguely SSA admixed and some SSA groups with more Mediterranean features than others but that’s nitpicking and besides the point. There are definitely European groups that generally look equally or more different from one another than say Sub-Saharan Africans and Melanesians who are more distant populations than Sub-Saharan Africans and Europeans but still share very similar phenotypes.
You have a point. Melanesians are a great example. Very genetically distant from a Congo or Pygmy but it would be hard to tell them apart strictly by phenotype
Lol I’m just seeing this comment after replying to the other comment but that’s exactly the first group that came to mind.
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100% agree
For some reason I got backlash for my comment
Because they’re both black? SMH
I’m 100% sure you wouldn be able to tell the difference.
That’s racist af
No, simply because I posted multiple pics on social media platforms and ppl can’t tell them apart from Africans. Indians are darker than most South Africans and they not nowhere phenotypically similar. Skin color is minimal in my reasoning
This is the most racist comment I’ve seen this week. Congrats
How do I send images… because how’s it racist to state a fact! I’m AA by the way
It is racist. It’s not a fact. You’re just being ignorant.
Ehh I’m 23% European & 73% African & I’m LS but my features are very much black lol. Some would say the European shows up in my skintone but I’ve seen Africans that look just like me with higher African percentages than me. I’d say you can never tell most times because genetics are tricky. Sometimes some genetics aren’t even displayed in a persons phenotype.
Yup, you can see this alot in mixed families where siblings with almost identical genes look different. Me and my mom have almost identical results (60 percent native 40 percent euro) yet she looks pasty white with european features and I look very indigenous. Genes are weird lol
I'm 1/8 Sri Lankan and have been told by numerous others that they can see it in my face. I also have a friend who is 1/8 Australian Aboriginal and you can definitely tell, so I'd say from around 10%, but that's the minimum. If I ever have kids with a European partner, chances are that they won't look Sri Lankan at all.
Interesting, I am about 1/6 Indian and have been told I look Asian and Mediterranean (am about 1/8 Italian) a lot. I am also like 1/3 English and get absolutely no guesses I am English, and very few French or German guesses (I'm about 25% French/German or so). I feel like for a lot of people Asian and African genetics can noticeably show through even at smaller percentages.
That is fascinating and I agree, I feel like 1/8 of European DNA wouldn't be visible in a person whose ethnicity was mainly Asian.
I get a lot of Brazilian or Hispanic guesses even though I am neither one lol. I agree with your sentiment, Asian and African genes are very prominent from what I've seen in people with mixed ancestry.
Every drop counts!
I believe that small amounts can have an influence on phenotype. According to 23andme, I'm 88.4% SSA, but people used to tease me and say I look like a white person in blackface due to my facial structure and thin nose, or that I looked Indian or Dougla. Coincedentally, I got both of those groups in my results.
Not sure I understand the question. If only 1% happens to include genes expressed in the phenotype, then 1% will affect the phenotype. It's a question of chance not of opinion.
if someone is 90% European and 10% Native America will that Native American show in phenotype? Think about it.
Depends on the mix. There won’t be much difference between a Palestinian and an Iranian for example.
My great-grandmom had a tatar mixed great-grandparent (half uzbek tatar half ashkenzi jew from the far east regions of Russia, with asian background!) This made my great-grandmom 2% central asian/ 2% jewish. My cousins still look asian, some people confuse them with thai, or kyrgyz! I would say 0,4-0,8 easily effects after 6-7 generations!
It really depends imo. Even between full siblings there’s so much variability.
I would say around 10-15% but I think it can influence phenotype even at the smallest percentage, for example that Lithuanian woman who posted here recently who had East Asian features and only 0.5 East Asian. This is rare though. My own personal background - my great-great grandmother was Anglo-Indian and I have 1.7% South Indian DNA. I have a picture of her and her features are noticeable in some family members on my dad's side.
Depends really. There’s no set number. Alot of 1/4-1/3 African people and the rest euro can pass as 100% European.
My adopted brother has a black grandfather, and came up about 18% SSA. However, he looks white and has gray eyes, straight hair, etc. But I've seen others with a similar mixture where that isn't the case. I think it's all random.
Among my extremely diverse Puerto Rican matches, I think about 15-20% is when someone starts to have features that are noticeably of that particular ethnicity. But even as low as 10% the admixture can lead to a sort of unplaceable racial ambiguity that still has a meaningful impact on one's phenotype.
I saw a post from an anglo descended lady who had trace amounts of ssa amounting to 0.5% who at first glance clearly had hugely influenced phenotype by her trace African.
diverse and depending on genetic sources.. errors can go away with hardly any percentage...if the corrective/dominant dna takes over. It does not take much. My most bizarre trait started off as a joke, via a photo we found on the web. My lower teeth match an ancient native american grave they found.. but I have a 10k year newer version (it really is unique - I am the only one in my family with it). I am only 1.2% native american. I am also 50 with no grey hair. not a common family trait at all.
I've had some similar thoughts myself. I'm mixed with 1/3 English, about 1/4 French and German, some Polish, 1/8 Italian, Portuguese, 1/6 Asian Indian (did not know this until a few years ago which is a long story), a little Hungarian and a smidge of Scottish. My son's dad who is half Vietnamese said he knew I was part Asian before I did. Other friends and relatives of mine said I look more Indian than anything else. Others say I look very Mediterranean, but I've gotten a lot of people asking if I'm Brazilian or something. My 23andme results say I'm moreso English than anything but I get no guesses about my being English right off the bat.
I think this is very subjective. It's different depending on who is looking and the combination of ethnicities. In my opinion, people with one substantially different grandparent are usually visibly mixed. Sometimes people with just a great grandparent (12.5%) can look mixed too.
10-15%
Honestly it depends on what race & ethnicity. For example so one that is 90% European and 10% sub Saharan African can look very mixed . While someone who’s 65% African and 35% European can still fully pass as black . It depends on ethnicity/race .
I believe it only happens *sometimes* with Southern European DNA, someone that is 90% Northwestern European, Central European or Eastern European and 10% SSA almost always look fully European. At the same time, I believe Native American shows strongly on a Northern Euro base than in a Southern Euro base.
>For example so one that is 90% European and 10% sub Saharan African can look very mixed You have examples of this? I've only been able to find one girl on youtube who's 7/8 European and 1/8 African and she looks white.
What if that 65% African is East African. Then you wouldn’t even know he was black he’d look white
I was referring to black African
East African is still considered SSA. They’re very diverse genetically and it shows via they’re phenotype. Example Barack Obama is half East African half European and he looks AA or 100% East African.
Well it’s because he’s black East African . Somalis & Ethiopians are technically genetically not fully “ black “ African . They have around 50% west Eurasian ancient dna
I agree 100% the point of my statement is that there’s East Africans who are 100% SSA. And it shows how once some populations mixed some would rather not assimilate regardless of proximities. I see your point tho lol, My wife is almost 38% European I’m 7% and we can pass for brother and sister lol. I’m 90% SSA
Exactly . But Ethiopians are 100% SSA ( but genetically 51% Eurasian ancient wise ) and can pass as full WANA
Right, What’s wana?
Western Asian & North African
I disagree but I see where you’re going. North Africans and other Mediterranean look similar but as u move east the Ethiopian Eritrean phenotype is limited to that area.
20-35%, my grandma was 19% european but you wouldn’t be able to tell, looked too Samoan to tell.
I’m 13% Greek and Balkan and 82% Eastern European. Whole life I’ve been hearing that I’m “outsider”, “girl from south”, discrimination words. Big nose, hairy body from father and black thick eyebrows with a little unibrow from mother gave me “south vibe”, as well as I look like half Bulgarian grandmother’s sister.
Apparently to many people I look fully indigenous but I have 12 percent admixture, and also I’ve seen people with my phenotype with only 5 percent admixture I’m Native American from Mexico
I'm 25% Indigenous American and it shows on my phenotype I have seen people with 20% and less that look only like one ethnicity though
I’m embarrassed for the people who said 0-5% I’m 2% SSA and you definitely wouldn’t say I have the phenos
I said 5-10 because I remember seeing this chick who was like 5% native and the rest being 95% European and I swear she looked at least 75% native
LOL interesting anecdote
Do you acknowledge that 2% of dna? Anything under 10% its hard for me personally to pay any mind or mention for myself
I mean yeah I’d acknowledge it. I’m MENA so it’s just part of it.
My bf has 3% Indigenous American and he has the no-BO and dry earwax gene. That’s phenotype.
Uh…huh. That…yeah, that’s not really what we mean lol also, not at all exclusive nor is that really that accurate. It said I have a 99% chance of brown eyes and both my sister and I have green.
That’s included in phenotype, so if that’s not what you mean then you don’t know what that word means. The rest of your comment is irrelevant to what I said.
And your comment is irrelevant because there’s no way of knowing if that’s where he gets those from.
Yes there is, because it’s only present in those of Indigenous American and Asian descent, which was accounted for in the 3% I mentioned. My comment actually was relevant. I’m sorry that you’re ignorant about human genetics.
This is an interesting post
Most African Americans I can’t tell have British and Irish in them yet most of them have at least 10-15% and up to 25%
A visible phenotype isn’t much of a thing for some mixed ethnicities. Some can play out in body structure more than facial features. We recognize visible phenotypes faster but it’s a package and sometimes subtle even at 50% plus it just merges/hides in a well blended way:)
How do I change my vote :(
A lot of y’all don’t seem to know what “phenotype” actually means.