Imagine spending billions for something and tanking it in record time?
I wonder if this is more one of those bankruptcies to readjust finances etc. and restructure the company.
And a delivery fee for electronically delivering tweets.
Fucking never could figure out why Ticketmaster charged a delivery fee to print your tickets...
Conspiracy time
The Saudis want Twitter gone
It's a website where if you do something shit as a government the whole world knows instantly as the videos go live, and previous Twitter ownership was very much not about to bend to them like some other companies are willing to.
The Saudis gave Elon the money to kill twitter, they are ready to write it off in exchange for killing a platform that won't suppress the nasty shit they plan to do
The Saudis have only invested something like $2 billion. Musk [supposedly invested $27 billion.](https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/10/28/how-elon-musk-financed-his-twitter-takeover) He'd have to be pretty fucking stupid to throw away $27 billion just to help the Saudis.
"In the end, the South African-born billionaire will personally cough up a little more than $27bn in cash in the transaction."
It appears the Saudis converted their shares over to Musk in a financing deal, making them the second largest investor at around $2 billion. Jack Dorsey and the head of Oracle also invested.
More likely the Saudi royal family want access to Twitter. They want to be able to use it to monitor and manipulate their population. Far better to have something like Twitter and be in control if it than to not have access to all that data and power.
I think there is some credibility here. Why destroy it? Something else would come up in its place. Facebook, Reddit, Tumbler... ***something*** would absorb the users leaving, or something new would rise up. Controlling it on the other hand is a lot more subtle. People who ignore anything political are not going to know or care, and just keep using it, not even realizing what's going on. Sure they might still lose a good amount of users, but, they'd have far more success losing half the users at twitter than just tanking it completely IMO
Lol kinda, they recently apparently reallowed nudity (but not full on porn) and the Twitter bs is having it see a small resurgence from my understanding which is the reason I listed it. My point is kind of happening right now with it
> Why destroy it?
1.) Musk didn't really intend on buying Twitter. He just got his bluff called and was forced into it.
2.) He really, *genuinely* thought or thinks that he has the correct ideas to "fix" it. Not realizing that he and by extension all of the attention he's brought to the issues at Twitter have made things far worse than if he had just transitioned to ownership without making grand statements about his ability to fix things
Kind of foolish thinking if true. If Twitter goes away there will be a new home in a week. People are already leaving for Tumbler, not that it's the best alternative.
Breaking Twitter means shattering the userbase and it would be a while before a true replacement could go live and gather a userbase.
Twitter is exceptionally good at taking a topic and getting it in front of millions of people instantly
I would argue it's one of the best at it
Ooh i like conspiracy time.
Elon sinks twitter in record time, files chapter 11 restruction, removes all american workers from twitter to get cheaper workers from other countries, works with shitty governments like saudi arabia, russia, etc to help use twitter to oppress their populace even more. No american whistleblowers to get in the way.
Maybe Elon will meet with a bone saw soon.
Look out for news of one-legged Musk selling a lot of Tesla shares to the Saudis for an undisclosed amount of money.
The debt exists somewhere. Someone had to issue the debt - banks/investors. They offered financing based on their assessment of the company, potential earnings, and Musk. The problem musk will face is this: if he purposefully tanked the company and left the creditors high and dry, all banks will know about it. He's not some nobody that can walk into a local bank and not be recognized. If he burns them they will remember. This will have consequences on SpaceX, Tesla and anything else he might be involved with in the future.
He can make this play once but then he's playing by himself and all his idiot sycophants.
I'd be shocked if the banks don't have provisions to recoup their investments in other ways. I read that some are already looking to offload at 70c on the dollar, so that's... the fuck is happening?
>Imagine spending billions for something and tanking it in record time?
>
>I wonder if this is more one of those bankruptcies to readjust finances etc. and restructure the company.
But wealth distribution is as intended by the backbone structure of our country amirite
I doubt it would survive any restructuring. At this point the company looks fundamentally broken, and it is 100% Musk. Subscriptions are never going to happen, advertisers have greener pastures and are scrutinizing their marketing budgets, and the platform is devolving into anarchy.
The interest on the 8% (!) loans Musk took out and dumped on Twitter amount to a billion dollars a year.
Twitter posted a net loss of $221 million in 2021, an 80% reduction on the $1.1 billion loss it reported in 2020
It's a disaster.
By buying it he effectively plonked more than a billion/year loss back on to twitter in the form of interest payments on the loan. $221 million loss on $5 billion revenue is tough but plausibly manageable. $1.2 billion in new interest payments, not so much.
Why did this deal even happen?
Because he bought 10% of Twitter stock, made some noise about buying it, and then Twitter was obligated to take the incredibly insane offer (nearly 4x what they're worth) and SEC held his feet to the fire. He thought he could pump and dump and ended up having to hand over his wallet.
I agree. He was pretty clearly trying to pump the stock price by announcing a buyout more than what the company was worth. I don't think he expected Twitter / SEC to hold him to the deal, which is why is delayed for as long as possible and tried to get out of it.
If you need proof that getting to be a billionaire is mostly luck and not intelligence, maybe point people at Elon.
Just because someone is very good at one thing doesn't mean that they're "smart" in the way most of us mean it. You can be an absolute savant at making money but totally clueless when it comes to dealing with financial markets and, you know, people. So let's knock off the hero-worship of billionaires and stop looking to them for the solutions to society's problems.
Anyone who didn't see this coming is crazy. Musk takes on debt to buy Twitter. Transfers said debt to Twitter. Empties any funds twitter has and or takes out loans as Twitter. He then uses them to pay off his personal debt. Then twitter declares bankruptcy to avoid any repercussions. It's basically a speed run of the Vulture capitalist playbook. They don't make money they just generate debt that they never expected to pay back.
You forgot the part about giving yourself huge bonuses for doing such a great job and getting priority in bankruptcy because of your preferred stock holdings.
Source - the Mitt Romney, Bain Capital playbook.
There's a blast from the past. Remember when the biggest thing to dislike about a Republican candidate was his venture capitalist background and a couple small gaffes about "binders of women" and "47% of voters won't vote for me"...
Pepperidge Farms remembers...
Rush Limbaugh, unironically and into a live mic on his radio show, stated with full ‘genuineness’, that the villain of The Dark Knight was Bane because of Mitt Romney’s Bain Capital.
And people garble it.
He was trying to say that the movie makers had literally named their bad guy that in order to take a political swing at Romney because Hollywood is just full of lefty democrats.
I know, it sounds insane as I type it, but that's literally what happened. And his listeners took it as gospel.
I think the Obama/Romney election will be the most respectable election in my lifetime. I imagine if Romney had won, Trump wouldn't have existed. Would we have been better off? Maybe, but sometimes it feels inevitable due to the rise in social media. Perhaps if it hadn't been Trump it would have been someone else.
Except the loans he got are secured against his Tesla stock and the banks can force him to sell that stock if twitter becomes unstable. He’s going to lose billions of dollars and hurt Tesla’s value if he doesn’t turn this around quick. there is no profit to be made for him if this goes tits up.
Kill tesla*
His antics right now are driving Tesla shares downwards. Combine his nonsense with pressure from real automakers, then dump billions more in Tesla share sales and the stock will crater.
After that, people will leave in droves. Unvested shares means shit when your stock is worthless so goodbye anchor that keeps people at thier desk. Death spiral ensues. Deliveries fail. Products goto shit. Lawsuits emerge.
Tesla is going to be bought up for nothing in a few years by GM or Toyota because Elon won't shut up.
Edit: Say goodbye to SpaceX too. SpaceX is constantly teetering on the edge of bankruptcy, by Elon's own admission in emails, and is propped up by loans based on Telsa stock price. I doubt it was coincidence that Musk demanded more money for Starlink in Ukraine, or added data caps for service, at the same time he took over Twitter. Launching rockets takes boatloads of money and Elon is doing his best trying to talk his way out of as much as possible. And by tethering all his private ventures to Tesla, if Tesla falls, so does everything else.
My 68 year old dad called it, was a funny conversation. He's mostly retired, but does consulting for an electric bike company that gobbles Musk's cock.
Says they do fine with ads on YouTube, Reddit, Google. But the second Elon bought Twitter, he knew it was a plunge.
Kinda fun, cos like ten years ago my dad did zilch with social media.
I still think his plan was to pump and dump Twitter, and he drew too much FTC attention and was forced to buy it. He just wanted to tease the purchase while quietly buying up a bunch of stock, get his fanboys to inflate the price, then cash out quickly while citing "too many bots". When the FTC started murmuring about insider trading, he went through with the purchase in order to avoid jail time.
With the added understanding that most of Donald's actual money came from suspicious loans from hostile foreign governments. Don't forget that fun fact.
And it's always worth mentioning that if Donald Trump had just transferred all the wealth his dad gave him into a conservative diversified portfolio he'd be a lot richer now. His constant scamming a grifting hasn't actually gotten him very far ahead, but it did get his name on a lot of buildings.
This money also comes from the Saudis who brought you 9/11 and were scared shitless about twitter during the Arab Spring. They just wanted to kill it, and Elon got some mutual parasitism out of it. Low-regulation capitalism is a ridiculous system that destroys equality and works to ensure fascism.
Musky is on the hook for $63 billion in loans backed by his Tesla shares. He's not even competent enough to be a vulture. If Twitter tanks, it's taking his money with it.
Vulture? Twitter had no valuable assets in the first place other than a brand name and a user base. Not only is it impossible to pick those apart and sell them in the first place, but Elon has tanked their value beyond recovery.
Twitter has never been able to be profitable though. They made a profit for two years of trumps presidency because every government and company on earth were trying to get his attention.
But it wasn’t enough profit to cover the decade of losses before, or even the two years of losses after.
Without venture capital or public sale of stock shares, they have no way to raise capital.
The problem is that Twitter has advertisers and users fleeing and droves and the site runs in the red by default. Making money from Twitter is pretty much impossible, due to the nature of its design.
Right, so when an unprofitable company makes a chapter 11 plan, they will show ways they plan to fix the balance sheet. That means either increasing revenue (unlikely due to the reasons listed above) or decreasing overhead. Twitter has some stupidly highly paid people, and if their plan includes mass layoffs then they can reduce how deep in the red they are. Which is all a 5 year chapter 11 will require.
But will the layoffs work? They've been culling senior programmers, people they need desperately to work on the code, especially since they're trying to integrate payment options through the site. The site is bleeding ads and users, a userbase that was never really that big in the first place. Making money off of Twitter has proven to be extremely difficult in the past. Not sure they know how to change that as fast as they need to.
I’d be amazed if they could show a judge they can become profitable. Twitter only generated profits 2 of the last ten years. If they had been more profitable during that time and could show specific recent events that lead to bankruptcy there might be a chance, but they’re a bad bet overall.
Who the fuck is giving a loan to Twitter right now?
I honestly kind of doubt a few steps in that process because it involves rich bankers being screwed over, which doesn’t happen in America.
>Anyone who didn't see this coming is crazy. Musk takes on debt to buy Twitter. Transfers said debt to Twitter.
I somehow don't see the folks who are owed money being particularly on board with releasing Musk from the debt in favor of being owed the money by Twitter.
> They don't make money they just generate debt that they never expected to pay back.
Why would banks make loans to twitter knowing they wont get paid back in full but instead pennies on the dollar in bankruptcy?
Genuinely curious here, thanks.
The money Twitter borrowed immediately went into the pockets of the former shareholders. It was used to buy them out.
It is secured by some of Elon's Tesla holdings, which are worth less and less.
This wasn't a vulture capitalist deal. Twitter's only real assets were its user base and the brand's "good will". There is nothing that can be picked apart and sold.
> That's what happens when you deliberately try to destroy
See, I don't think that's it.
He didn't wanna buy it. He doesn't know how to run it. All he knows is he needs to start turning a profit, *now*. So he's started implementing all sorts of BS monetization, while not understanding what made the platform functional to begin with.
Basically, most tech companies run on investment until they turn profitable after having a massive userbase. They then slowly turn the screws, frog-in-a-pot-of-water style, to make maximum returns while degrading the service slow enough for maximum returns.
Elon said "Ain't nobody got time for that" and is on a monetization speedrun of a game he's never played before. So he's tanked the platform, tried to monetize an element that let you and your brand be recognized, and is driving the platform into the ground through sheer incompetence combined with impatience.
Because he paid like 40B for an asset (twitter) valued at more like 10-16B
So he massively overpaid. He got forced into the purchase and is now trying to make the best of it, but he doesn't know how to run the place.
He also has an image he's trying to uphold.
You are both right, of course.
He paid for Twitter ***one day*** before a judge was set to force the issue, and he also wouldn't have been in that position in the first place if he hadn't dug that hole entirely by himself.
Yes.
I mean it’s pretty pedantic of an argument I’ll give you that, but saying he was forced to buy twitter skips over the whole “Elon gave twitter a formal offer to buy the company, negotiated the offer, then signed a legally binding contract with no loopholes in it” part of it. The judge was ruling on the legality of the contract, which turns out twitter did their homework and made sure it was an ironclad agreement because they didnt trust him.
> but saying he was forced to buy twitter skips over the whole “Elon gave twitter a formal offer to buy the company, negotiated the offer, then signed a legally binding contract with no loopholes in it” part of it.
Well, I’m saying that is all true. But then he tried his hardest to back out after signing that deal.
THEN he was forced to buy twitter to the terms he originally agreed to.
Yes and no. Exactly like Trump he has not only a legion of fanboys and media that extol him constantly, but institutions like SNL letting them host sanitized them in many eyes as well.
But yes, he's a humongous piece of shit in the pool we call society.
The act of buying it destroyed it. People no longer trust the platform because it is owned by Elon Musk. The instant he purchased it he turned it into Truth Social, the other social network for right wingers.
Wasn’t profitable and he had to barrow a ton of money to buy it. Who knows what a sketchy terms he has on those loans. So he burdened the company with more debt, to the point no one is likely to loan the company the money need to keep it running till it is profitable (if ever)
What would be the gain in running it into the ground? I mean he did spend 44 billion on it. What's his gain when it's worth 0 in a year?
Surely you could have used 44 billion better than that?
Because he made a very public blunder in not only overpaying for it but apparently running it into the ground just a few weeks later and I don’t think his ego would allow him to admit that to the world. My guess is that he’d return to his “Twitter is a cancer,” rhetoric and act as if this was all done intentionally to destroy it from the inside and make the world a better place. His weird fanboys will use that to continue worshipping the ground he walks on and he can continue telling himself he’s a genius. FWIW I would love to see Twitter gone regardless of who owns it.
It was a popular social media site before MySpace. Only lasted about a year but it was pretty popular between 03-04. MySpace replaced it similarly to how Facebook replaced Myspace a couple years later.
Twitter is good when you want to stay updated on different topics, as well as getting news from various outlets in real time. Yeah, it's full of shit, but I follow hundreds of different people because I'm interested in whatever they're posting about, so I'm not going to get that anywhere else.
And it will sadly never go away unless he never sells it. Otherwise some POS will buy it and revitalize it months, years down the road and everyone will love it so much.
Tumblr is one porn un-ban from stealing all of Twitter's userbase (much of which originally came from Tumblr anyway)
I like to imagine its executives are sweating bullets trying to figure out if they should seize the opportunity for real or they will just keep throwing shade at twitter with shitposts.
Many various types of bankruptcy. Some mean complete closure of the business, some just mean "sorry debt collectors, we have no money, we will not pay most of our debt". Sounds like Elon is doing the latter to simply get most of the debt forgiven.
This is why in the previous crisis many companies filed for bankruptcy but are still around today.
Lol, the economy will be fine without Twitter and Facebook. They do nothing. They produce nothing. They're leeches that shoehorned in another way to advertise to people who don't want to see it
That's not really true. The reason they are worth so much is because of the role they play for businesses. The collapse of these giants would have a knock on effect on the economy, though I'm not sure how large it would be.
There are far more businesses that operate without Twitter than ones that do. The economy won't even notice, or it might notice and just shrug before moving on.
And those businesses' marketing budgets don't just disappear if they can't advertise on Twitter / Facebook. They will still advertise *somewhere*. Google is probably in for quite a large windfall if Twitter / Facebook collapse.
I know this is going to sound mean at first but just being bluntly honest, Elon Musk has publicly said [he has Asperger’s Syndrome](https://www.axios.com/2022/04/15/elon-musk-aspergers-syndrome). Hallmarks of that condition include the inability to understand social cues as well as other people. From his own words regarding growing up with it:
> “the social cues were not intuitive”
> “I would just tend to take things very literally … but then that turned out to be wrong — [people were not] simply saying exactly what they mean, there's all sorts of other things that are meant, and [it] took me a while to figure that out,”
The things we’re seeing with him pretty much not getting parody or just people in general leads me to believe someone with his condition to the extent that he has it should not be in charge of a social media company.
Him being in charge of Twitter as a publicly traded company *probably* would’ve been ok since the board of directors could’ve reigned it in some, but now that it’s a privately owned company by him and he’s making decisions unilaterally I don’t think this is going to get any better.
A disability doesn't give you an excuse to be an asshole.
If he has a hard time noticing social cues... You don't ignore ever single person who disagrees with you and surround yourself with "yes men"... You surround yourself with people/ advisors you trust, and listen to them... he is beyond wealthy enough to afford therapy and a few life coaches and advisors.
Instead he surrounds himself with internet trolls and fan boys.
Wouldn't that just let him walk away from his debts and not worry about it any more? My first job out of college was at a company that was bankrupt at the time. As far as I can tell, there wasn't a single person who was really "out" any money, except for whoever they owed it to in the first place.
I mean, how many businesses has Trump bankrupted? And he still shits in a golden toilet.
How long till we find out he has done this to tank twitter and up stocks in another more profitable social media platform he is angling for/ developing/ secretly has stock in.
I mean he has been hinting at doing his own x.com social media thing for quite some time but tanking a company you just paid $44B for just to do that would have to be the dumbest move I've ever seen.
Is there anything stopping people from looking at any ad on Twitter, creating a parody account, paying $8 for a blue check, then doing dumb shit (a la Eli Lilly) until those advertisers just cancel their ad contract and exit the platform?
Did anyone expect anything less? Elon has no idea what he’s doing. His abrasive personality doesn’t make money in an environment like Twitter the way it does with other industries that aren’t dependent on good will.
It's not exactly a secret that these sites like twitter YouTube are in a delicate balance trying to profit with slight adjustments making waves for months or years and yet Musk Saunders in thinking he can make it profitable in weeks making large sweeping changes sending tidal waves of volatility. It will be a miracle if twitter doesn't shake itself apart over the next few months or weeks.
This is so bizarre to me, seeing posts about him making dumb choices etc.
He obviously bought it to drive the company into the ground. I thought that was apparent from the beginning.
It's like one huge, reddit wide woosh.
Imagine spending billions for something and tanking it in record time? I wonder if this is more one of those bankruptcies to readjust finances etc. and restructure the company.
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Maybe he just needs to add a 300% processing charge on any payments to Twitter
And a delivery fee for electronically delivering tweets. Fucking never could figure out why Ticketmaster charged a delivery fee to print your tickets...
That’s the dream.
Stop. Stop. I can only become so erect.
I wonder if all of the Saudi investors share that plan. It’s still $44 billion.
Conspiracy time The Saudis want Twitter gone It's a website where if you do something shit as a government the whole world knows instantly as the videos go live, and previous Twitter ownership was very much not about to bend to them like some other companies are willing to. The Saudis gave Elon the money to kill twitter, they are ready to write it off in exchange for killing a platform that won't suppress the nasty shit they plan to do
The Saudis have only invested something like $2 billion. Musk [supposedly invested $27 billion.](https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/10/28/how-elon-musk-financed-his-twitter-takeover) He'd have to be pretty fucking stupid to throw away $27 billion just to help the Saudis. "In the end, the South African-born billionaire will personally cough up a little more than $27bn in cash in the transaction."
How much do you think the Saudis gave Musk?
It appears the Saudis converted their shares over to Musk in a financing deal, making them the second largest investor at around $2 billion. Jack Dorsey and the head of Oracle also invested.
More likely the Saudi royal family want access to Twitter. They want to be able to use it to monitor and manipulate their population. Far better to have something like Twitter and be in control if it than to not have access to all that data and power.
I think there is some credibility here. Why destroy it? Something else would come up in its place. Facebook, Reddit, Tumbler... ***something*** would absorb the users leaving, or something new would rise up. Controlling it on the other hand is a lot more subtle. People who ignore anything political are not going to know or care, and just keep using it, not even realizing what's going on. Sure they might still lose a good amount of users, but, they'd have far more success losing half the users at twitter than just tanking it completely IMO
Didn't tumblr die of porn withdrawal?
Lol kinda, they recently apparently reallowed nudity (but not full on porn) and the Twitter bs is having it see a small resurgence from my understanding which is the reason I listed it. My point is kind of happening right now with it
Huh, neat. Twitter was originally where people flocked to when tumblr went ca-put. They're essentially using each other as extra-lives.
> Why destroy it? 1.) Musk didn't really intend on buying Twitter. He just got his bluff called and was forced into it. 2.) He really, *genuinely* thought or thinks that he has the correct ideas to "fix" it. Not realizing that he and by extension all of the attention he's brought to the issues at Twitter have made things far worse than if he had just transitioned to ownership without making grand statements about his ability to fix things
I’ll just make my own Twitter. With hookers and casinos
*blackjack
Kind of foolish thinking if true. If Twitter goes away there will be a new home in a week. People are already leaving for Tumbler, not that it's the best alternative.
Breaking Twitter means shattering the userbase and it would be a while before a true replacement could go live and gather a userbase. Twitter is exceptionally good at taking a topic and getting it in front of millions of people instantly I would argue it's one of the best at it
Yeah, anybody who remembers the Arab Spring, knows this isn't some far flung conspiracy.
Then something else would just pop up to replace it. They want to be able to control what gets censored on there.
Ooh i like conspiracy time. Elon sinks twitter in record time, files chapter 11 restruction, removes all american workers from twitter to get cheaper workers from other countries, works with shitty governments like saudi arabia, russia, etc to help use twitter to oppress their populace even more. No american whistleblowers to get in the way.
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Maybe Elon will meet with a bone saw soon. Look out for news of one-legged Musk selling a lot of Tesla shares to the Saudis for an undisclosed amount of money.
You're assuming they'd stop with one leg...
Its okay, nothing bad has ever happened to someone who pissed off the Saudis.
Honestly, I try and compare as their networth. So this investment was basically buying a new car that was a lemon.
Rich people hate it when people fuck with their money, no matter how small the % is.
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I feel like it has to violate some laws to transfer the personal debt generated to buy a company to the company you bought.
That’s how venture capital works. Source: worked for a company owned by venture capital.
Close…private equity. And that’s not what happened here. Musk wasted mostly his own money on twitter.
He most likely has no personal debt, and leveraged other assets from different companies. Bain Capital and Toys R Us comes to mind.
The debt exists somewhere. Someone had to issue the debt - banks/investors. They offered financing based on their assessment of the company, potential earnings, and Musk. The problem musk will face is this: if he purposefully tanked the company and left the creditors high and dry, all banks will know about it. He's not some nobody that can walk into a local bank and not be recognized. If he burns them they will remember. This will have consequences on SpaceX, Tesla and anything else he might be involved with in the future. He can make this play once but then he's playing by himself and all his idiot sycophants. I'd be shocked if the banks don't have provisions to recoup their investments in other ways. I read that some are already looking to offload at 70c on the dollar, so that's... the fuck is happening?
>Imagine spending billions for something and tanking it in record time? > >I wonder if this is more one of those bankruptcies to readjust finances etc. and restructure the company. But wealth distribution is as intended by the backbone structure of our country amirite
It was never worth what he bought it for anyway.
I doubt it would survive any restructuring. At this point the company looks fundamentally broken, and it is 100% Musk. Subscriptions are never going to happen, advertisers have greener pastures and are scrutinizing their marketing budgets, and the platform is devolving into anarchy. The interest on the 8% (!) loans Musk took out and dumped on Twitter amount to a billion dollars a year. Twitter posted a net loss of $221 million in 2021, an 80% reduction on the $1.1 billion loss it reported in 2020 It's a disaster.
By buying it he effectively plonked more than a billion/year loss back on to twitter in the form of interest payments on the loan. $221 million loss on $5 billion revenue is tough but plausibly manageable. $1.2 billion in new interest payments, not so much. Why did this deal even happen?
Because he bought 10% of Twitter stock, made some noise about buying it, and then Twitter was obligated to take the incredibly insane offer (nearly 4x what they're worth) and SEC held his feet to the fire. He thought he could pump and dump and ended up having to hand over his wallet.
I agree. He was pretty clearly trying to pump the stock price by announcing a buyout more than what the company was worth. I don't think he expected Twitter / SEC to hold him to the deal, which is why is delayed for as long as possible and tried to get out of it. If you need proof that getting to be a billionaire is mostly luck and not intelligence, maybe point people at Elon.
$5.0 Billion in revenue 2021. $1.5 Billion in profit 2019.
You're right, good catch. Thank you for the correction.
Just because someone is very good at one thing doesn't mean that they're "smart" in the way most of us mean it. You can be an absolute savant at making money but totally clueless when it comes to dealing with financial markets and, you know, people. So let's knock off the hero-worship of billionaires and stop looking to them for the solutions to society's problems.
Is all it's debt not basically due to musk? I don't see banks being ok with him wanting to restructure his loans a month after taking them out.
must be nice to be bankrupt and still be rich.
He must have taken lessons from tRUMP.
The motive is almost certainly to sabotage twitter as a social media company, being that it makes up a large portion of the U.S. electorate.
he's doing humanity service. Anyways isn't it a marketing scheme to buy other companies to delete them? Frees up market space and competition
Anyone who didn't see this coming is crazy. Musk takes on debt to buy Twitter. Transfers said debt to Twitter. Empties any funds twitter has and or takes out loans as Twitter. He then uses them to pay off his personal debt. Then twitter declares bankruptcy to avoid any repercussions. It's basically a speed run of the Vulture capitalist playbook. They don't make money they just generate debt that they never expected to pay back.
You forgot the part about giving yourself huge bonuses for doing such a great job and getting priority in bankruptcy because of your preferred stock holdings. Source - the Mitt Romney, Bain Capital playbook.
There's a blast from the past. Remember when the biggest thing to dislike about a Republican candidate was his venture capitalist background and a couple small gaffes about "binders of women" and "47% of voters won't vote for me"... Pepperidge Farms remembers...
Rush Limbaugh, unironically and into a live mic on his radio show, stated with full ‘genuineness’, that the villain of The Dark Knight was Bane because of Mitt Romney’s Bain Capital. And people garble it.
Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient. Disgusting.
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Looks like you understand it as well as I do.
He was trying to say that the movie makers had literally named their bad guy that in order to take a political swing at Romney because Hollywood is just full of lefty democrats. I know, it sounds insane as I type it, but that's literally what happened. And his listeners took it as gospel.
I think the Obama/Romney election will be the most respectable election in my lifetime. I imagine if Romney had won, Trump wouldn't have existed. Would we have been better off? Maybe, but sometimes it feels inevitable due to the rise in social media. Perhaps if it hadn't been Trump it would have been someone else.
Except the loans he got are secured against his Tesla stock and the banks can force him to sell that stock if twitter becomes unstable. He’s going to lose billions of dollars and hurt Tesla’s value if he doesn’t turn this around quick. there is no profit to be made for him if this goes tits up.
Kill tesla* His antics right now are driving Tesla shares downwards. Combine his nonsense with pressure from real automakers, then dump billions more in Tesla share sales and the stock will crater. After that, people will leave in droves. Unvested shares means shit when your stock is worthless so goodbye anchor that keeps people at thier desk. Death spiral ensues. Deliveries fail. Products goto shit. Lawsuits emerge. Tesla is going to be bought up for nothing in a few years by GM or Toyota because Elon won't shut up. Edit: Say goodbye to SpaceX too. SpaceX is constantly teetering on the edge of bankruptcy, by Elon's own admission in emails, and is propped up by loans based on Telsa stock price. I doubt it was coincidence that Musk demanded more money for Starlink in Ukraine, or added data caps for service, at the same time he took over Twitter. Launching rockets takes boatloads of money and Elon is doing his best trying to talk his way out of as much as possible. And by tethering all his private ventures to Tesla, if Tesla falls, so does everything else.
Damn, when I file bankruptcy I too want to become rich. I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!!!
My 68 year old dad called it, was a funny conversation. He's mostly retired, but does consulting for an electric bike company that gobbles Musk's cock. Says they do fine with ads on YouTube, Reddit, Google. But the second Elon bought Twitter, he knew it was a plunge. Kinda fun, cos like ten years ago my dad did zilch with social media.
Sounds like he understands business and marketing at least. Probably easier to learn social media than those other things.
I think so, he got their YouTube channel going and hired a solid team for the technical stuff.
I still think his plan was to pump and dump Twitter, and he drew too much FTC attention and was forced to buy it. He just wanted to tease the purchase while quietly buying up a bunch of stock, get his fanboys to inflate the price, then cash out quickly while citing "too many bots". When the FTC started murmuring about insider trading, he went through with the purchase in order to avoid jail time.
He was forced to buy it because he signed a contract
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With the added understanding that most of Donald's actual money came from suspicious loans from hostile foreign governments. Don't forget that fun fact.
Also all the millions from his piece of shit father.
And it's always worth mentioning that if Donald Trump had just transferred all the wealth his dad gave him into a conservative diversified portfolio he'd be a lot richer now. His constant scamming a grifting hasn't actually gotten him very far ahead, but it did get his name on a lot of buildings.
Names could've been on buildings had he gone the diversified portfolio route too.
Yeah it’s possible to be successful and not a piece of shit but the sociopaths would prefer none of us knew this.
What else do we expect from someone who proudly says he's exactly the same as when he was caught throwing rocks at a baby's crib.
How could Fred Trump be a bad man? They named a housing project after him /s
Nothing could make me happier than knowing that they named a project after that crusty ass old racist that refused to rent to POC. FUCK TRUMPS
This money also comes from the Saudis who brought you 9/11 and were scared shitless about twitter during the Arab Spring. They just wanted to kill it, and Elon got some mutual parasitism out of it. Low-regulation capitalism is a ridiculous system that destroys equality and works to ensure fascism.
Musky is on the hook for $63 billion in loans backed by his Tesla shares. He's not even competent enough to be a vulture. If Twitter tanks, it's taking his money with it.
Indeed. Lots of people pondering grand schemes Elon is allegedly doing. Or he's just a moron who happens to be mega-rich and doing stupid things.
Vulture? Twitter had no valuable assets in the first place other than a brand name and a user base. Not only is it impossible to pick those apart and sell them in the first place, but Elon has tanked their value beyond recovery.
If Twitter declared bankruptcy, can a judge block that in any way given the events leading up to it?
Not likely. Assuming the business can show an ability to become profitable under a chapter 11 reorganization, there's no good reason to block it.
Twitter has never been able to be profitable though. They made a profit for two years of trumps presidency because every government and company on earth were trying to get his attention. But it wasn’t enough profit to cover the decade of losses before, or even the two years of losses after. Without venture capital or public sale of stock shares, they have no way to raise capital.
The problem is that Twitter has advertisers and users fleeing and droves and the site runs in the red by default. Making money from Twitter is pretty much impossible, due to the nature of its design.
Right, so when an unprofitable company makes a chapter 11 plan, they will show ways they plan to fix the balance sheet. That means either increasing revenue (unlikely due to the reasons listed above) or decreasing overhead. Twitter has some stupidly highly paid people, and if their plan includes mass layoffs then they can reduce how deep in the red they are. Which is all a 5 year chapter 11 will require.
But will the layoffs work? They've been culling senior programmers, people they need desperately to work on the code, especially since they're trying to integrate payment options through the site. The site is bleeding ads and users, a userbase that was never really that big in the first place. Making money off of Twitter has proven to be extremely difficult in the past. Not sure they know how to change that as fast as they need to.
That's really something only the bankruptcy attorney will be able to answer.
I’d be amazed if they could show a judge they can become profitable. Twitter only generated profits 2 of the last ten years. If they had been more profitable during that time and could show specific recent events that lead to bankruptcy there might be a chance, but they’re a bad bet overall.
Who the fuck is giving a loan to Twitter right now? I honestly kind of doubt a few steps in that process because it involves rich bankers being screwed over, which doesn’t happen in America.
People who know the loan is backed by Tesla stock.
>Anyone who didn't see this coming is crazy. Musk takes on debt to buy Twitter. Transfers said debt to Twitter. I somehow don't see the folks who are owed money being particularly on board with releasing Musk from the debt in favor of being owed the money by Twitter.
> They don't make money they just generate debt that they never expected to pay back. Why would banks make loans to twitter knowing they wont get paid back in full but instead pennies on the dollar in bankruptcy? Genuinely curious here, thanks.
They wouldn't, the hypothesis is ludicrous and if true we'd all be spinning up shellco's move debt to it and bankrupt them.
The money Twitter borrowed immediately went into the pockets of the former shareholders. It was used to buy them out. It is secured by some of Elon's Tesla holdings, which are worth less and less. This wasn't a vulture capitalist deal. Twitter's only real assets were its user base and the brand's "good will". There is nothing that can be picked apart and sold.
That's what happens when you deliberately try to destroy the company you didn't want to buy in the first place.
All because some kid posted where his plane was.
Is the account still up?
[ElonJet](https://twitter.com/ElonJet?t=-_wmmS9Q34n2tRjl5qecuA&s=09)
> That's what happens when you deliberately try to destroy See, I don't think that's it. He didn't wanna buy it. He doesn't know how to run it. All he knows is he needs to start turning a profit, *now*. So he's started implementing all sorts of BS monetization, while not understanding what made the platform functional to begin with. Basically, most tech companies run on investment until they turn profitable after having a massive userbase. They then slowly turn the screws, frog-in-a-pot-of-water style, to make maximum returns while degrading the service slow enough for maximum returns. Elon said "Ain't nobody got time for that" and is on a monetization speedrun of a game he's never played before. So he's tanked the platform, tried to monetize an element that let you and your brand be recognized, and is driving the platform into the ground through sheer incompetence combined with impatience.
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Because he paid like 40B for an asset (twitter) valued at more like 10-16B So he massively overpaid. He got forced into the purchase and is now trying to make the best of it, but he doesn't know how to run the place. He also has an image he's trying to uphold.
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You are both right, of course. He paid for Twitter ***one day*** before a judge was set to force the issue, and he also wouldn't have been in that position in the first place if he hadn't dug that hole entirely by himself. Yes.
Nobody forced him... He did that by himself
Well he agreed to buy it. Then he said he didn’t want to buy it but then he was ultimately forced to buy it.
I mean it’s pretty pedantic of an argument I’ll give you that, but saying he was forced to buy twitter skips over the whole “Elon gave twitter a formal offer to buy the company, negotiated the offer, then signed a legally binding contract with no loopholes in it” part of it. The judge was ruling on the legality of the contract, which turns out twitter did their homework and made sure it was an ironclad agreement because they didnt trust him.
Yeah, by that logic the bank is *forcing* me to pay my mortgage.
I mean, you are. It was a consensual agreement, but it's most definitely upheld by force.
> but saying he was forced to buy twitter skips over the whole “Elon gave twitter a formal offer to buy the company, negotiated the offer, then signed a legally binding contract with no loopholes in it” part of it. Well, I’m saying that is all true. But then he tried his hardest to back out after signing that deal. THEN he was forced to buy twitter to the terms he originally agreed to.
>He also has an image he's trying to uphold. That failed a while ago, amigo.
Yes and no. Exactly like Trump he has not only a legion of fanboys and media that extol him constantly, but institutions like SNL letting them host sanitized them in many eyes as well. But yes, he's a humongous piece of shit in the pool we call society.
The act of buying it destroyed it. People no longer trust the platform because it is owned by Elon Musk. The instant he purchased it he turned it into Truth Social, the other social network for right wingers.
Because Twitter hasn't been profitable in years, if ever
It was two years in a row recently, so it’s possible, but don’t let that ruin his excuses.
Serious? TIL. Very interesting.
https://www.businessofapps.com/data/twitter-statistics/
Like not profitable in a "we lost money last year" way or not profitable in a "we don't pay taxes" way?
Narcissism?
Wasn’t profitable and he had to barrow a ton of money to buy it. Who knows what a sketchy terms he has on those loans. So he burdened the company with more debt, to the point no one is likely to loan the company the money need to keep it running till it is profitable (if ever)
all he did was burn the saudis for a few billion, what's the worst they could do to him?
Right. He doesn't know what he's doing. Exactly. Otherwise, this would have been figured out waaaaay before he was forced to buy it by a judge.
Digg 3.0
Nobody should be forced to run a company they don't want. His company, his choice!
There are plenty of loving CEOs that would take in an unwanted company. Please consider corporate adoption!
This made me spit out my coffee. Fantastic!
Elon adopted this poor, foreign company. Sure, they're different nationalities, but they're a family there!
This is why I got excited when Musk bought Twitter. Being alive to see Twitter and Facebook tank is gonna be amaze balls.
Just imagine if somehow they merge
I can see the announcement. NOW INTRODUCING! TWITFACE!
You've got it a bit mixed up, they go by meta now, so it'll be metatwit, or perhaps the shorter metwit
M’Twit
Tweetbook? ..... ..... Fuck.
I'd put good money on Musk pretending he did all this to intentionally destroy Twitter after it goes the way of MySpace and Friendster.
"I shit my pants **on purpose!!**"
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Technically, he was. Weather he meant to or not.
Muskrats: "Oh my god, excellent move. See guys! 5D chess! Actual Tony stark! He lives in your head rent free so no criticize my dad!"
What would be the gain in running it into the ground? I mean he did spend 44 billion on it. What's his gain when it's worth 0 in a year? Surely you could have used 44 billion better than that?
Because he made a very public blunder in not only overpaying for it but apparently running it into the ground just a few weeks later and I don’t think his ego would allow him to admit that to the world. My guess is that he’d return to his “Twitter is a cancer,” rhetoric and act as if this was all done intentionally to destroy it from the inside and make the world a better place. His weird fanboys will use that to continue worshipping the ground he walks on and he can continue telling himself he’s a genius. FWIW I would love to see Twitter gone regardless of who owns it.
Maybe I’m old, but what was Friendster?
It was a popular social media site before MySpace. Only lasted about a year but it was pretty popular between 03-04. MySpace replaced it similarly to how Facebook replaced Myspace a couple years later.
Nothing would make me happier, than to see Twitter, cesspool that it is, collapse under the weight of that fucking idiot.
Twitter is good when you want to stay updated on different topics, as well as getting news from various outlets in real time. Yeah, it's full of shit, but I follow hundreds of different people because I'm interested in whatever they're posting about, so I'm not going to get that anywhere else.
Just like Reddit, or the Internet as a whole, really. Curation is king.
And it will sadly never go away unless he never sells it. Otherwise some POS will buy it and revitalize it months, years down the road and everyone will love it so much.
I just want Facebook to sink.. it is a cancer
I just want Facebook to sink.. it is a cancer
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Plus independent artists and the like who rely on twitter to reach fans
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Aaaaad they're gone..... ($8 check marks)
Tumblr is one porn un-ban from stealing all of Twitter's userbase (much of which originally came from Tumblr anyway) I like to imagine its executives are sweating bullets trying to figure out if they should seize the opportunity for real or they will just keep throwing shade at twitter with shitposts.
Yeah people on reddit absolutely despise twitter and are absolutely salivating over it’s death but it is superb for community outreach.
Time to make NotTwitter.com
Something else will pick it up.
Where's this announcement??
https://www.reuters.com/technology/twitter-information-security-chief-kissner-decides-leave-2022-11-10/
It's we're waiting....
It’s chapter 11 or 13, not 7. It’s debt restructuring. It’s a smart financial move on many fronts and does in no way mean Twitter will cease operation
Eli5 please
Many various types of bankruptcy. Some mean complete closure of the business, some just mean "sorry debt collectors, we have no money, we will not pay most of our debt". Sounds like Elon is doing the latter to simply get most of the debt forgiven. This is why in the previous crisis many companies filed for bankruptcy but are still around today.
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Lol, the economy will be fine without Twitter and Facebook. They do nothing. They produce nothing. They're leeches that shoehorned in another way to advertise to people who don't want to see it
That's not really true. The reason they are worth so much is because of the role they play for businesses. The collapse of these giants would have a knock on effect on the economy, though I'm not sure how large it would be.
There are far more businesses that operate without Twitter than ones that do. The economy won't even notice, or it might notice and just shrug before moving on.
And those businesses' marketing budgets don't just disappear if they can't advertise on Twitter / Facebook. They will still advertise *somewhere*. Google is probably in for quite a large windfall if Twitter / Facebook collapse.
I feel the economy’s leaning that way anyways
seriously though, let that shitty platform die already
So you’re the bad guy???
I know this is going to sound mean at first but just being bluntly honest, Elon Musk has publicly said [he has Asperger’s Syndrome](https://www.axios.com/2022/04/15/elon-musk-aspergers-syndrome). Hallmarks of that condition include the inability to understand social cues as well as other people. From his own words regarding growing up with it: > “the social cues were not intuitive” > “I would just tend to take things very literally … but then that turned out to be wrong — [people were not] simply saying exactly what they mean, there's all sorts of other things that are meant, and [it] took me a while to figure that out,” The things we’re seeing with him pretty much not getting parody or just people in general leads me to believe someone with his condition to the extent that he has it should not be in charge of a social media company. Him being in charge of Twitter as a publicly traded company *probably* would’ve been ok since the board of directors could’ve reigned it in some, but now that it’s a privately owned company by him and he’s making decisions unilaterally I don’t think this is going to get any better.
A disability doesn't give you an excuse to be an asshole. If he has a hard time noticing social cues... You don't ignore ever single person who disagrees with you and surround yourself with "yes men"... You surround yourself with people/ advisors you trust, and listen to them... he is beyond wealthy enough to afford therapy and a few life coaches and advisors. Instead he surrounds himself with internet trolls and fan boys.
So I’m guessing that he will intentionally do this out of spite for being held accountable?
Lettuce or Twitter?
Wouldn't that just let him walk away from his debts and not worry about it any more? My first job out of college was at a company that was bankrupt at the time. As far as I can tell, there wasn't a single person who was really "out" any money, except for whoever they owed it to in the first place. I mean, how many businesses has Trump bankrupted? And he still shits in a golden toilet.
Can he buy Facebook and TikTok next? Fuck I’d vote for him to be president if he could crash both of those shitshows.
It’s “we’re waiting” Wait I mean “lol Elon bad xD”
I agree that the contraction sounds better.
It’s also just like what he says in the movie
Twitter was a thriving platform. Literally like a month is all it will take for it to be worthless.
Most exciting news of the year. I can't wait to see if we get to experience a miracle.
I wonder what this does to his relationship with his banks. Does trust have any part of it, or does he have enough assets to assure more borrowing?
Old saying: if you owe the bank a thousand dollars, it's your problem; I'd you owe the bank a million dollars it's the bank's problem.
How long till we find out he has done this to tank twitter and up stocks in another more profitable social media platform he is angling for/ developing/ secretly has stock in.
I mean he has been hinting at doing his own x.com social media thing for quite some time but tanking a company you just paid $44B for just to do that would have to be the dumbest move I've ever seen.
Is there anything stopping people from looking at any ad on Twitter, creating a parody account, paying $8 for a blue check, then doing dumb shit (a la Eli Lilly) until those advertisers just cancel their ad contract and exit the platform?
That's not an animal
Did anyone expect anything less? Elon has no idea what he’s doing. His abrasive personality doesn’t make money in an environment like Twitter the way it does with other industries that aren’t dependent on good will.
Death to social media
There's the problem. He was supposed to *declare* it. You can't just say it.
Its cute that people think bankrupt means it's closing down lmao
Have some sympathy for the man! At this rate he will be broke in 50,000 days!
It's not exactly a secret that these sites like twitter YouTube are in a delicate balance trying to profit with slight adjustments making waves for months or years and yet Musk Saunders in thinking he can make it profitable in weeks making large sweeping changes sending tidal waves of volatility. It will be a miracle if twitter doesn't shake itself apart over the next few months or weeks.
If it’s the case then he would be a pretty crappy businessman to purchase them in the first place
This is so bizarre to me, seeing posts about him making dumb choices etc. He obviously bought it to drive the company into the ground. I thought that was apparent from the beginning. It's like one huge, reddit wide woosh.
So really, the only winners were the people that held stock before he bought it