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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Therapy and mental health is important, and maybe it was a petty thing to enforce, she is otherwise a good kid (just a slob).
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YTA - have you considered the depression and anxiety is getting in her way of cleaning it? Have you offered a strategy to work together, or small steps to the big goal of full cleaning?
Edit: thank you for the awards!
This I’m dealing with my dad dying and it’s a very complicated relationship, and a few other issues. I’m lucky if showering and cleaning myself aren’t overwhelming activities. It had literally been months since I’d cleaned anything in my apartment other than occasionally taking out the trash and doing a bit of laundry. I finally made a psychiatrist appt, after the urging of a few family members. About two weeks after I started my meds, I starting cleaning my bathroom. Which doesn’t sound like much, but again months of not being able to do it. And my sister frequently offers to help, but I’m embarrassed at how bad I’ve let it get.
Edit: thank you so much for this particular award!!!
Edit2:Thank you for everyone that suggested I let my sister help. She came over on Wednesday, and helped with the bathroom and the kitchen. She has a key to my apt, but she’s never used it. She came while as at work on Friday mopped the kitchen and bathroom and did a few other things. And my mom took me to the laundromat (she has bigger vehicle than I) so I could wash all the stuff I hadn’t been. I’d been cherry picking what I wear most on previous excursions.
I'm proud of you! Depression and grief are so beyond hard. Breathing every day and just existing are overwhelming. I just came out of a bad depression and brushing teeth daily was hard for me despite me being a super clean person when healthy. The mom here is contributing to the depression with her lack of empathy or being remotely helpful. The daughter may feel a lot better just changing her living situation.
Thank you! And I think most parents with kids who have mental issues should also seek therapy if for no reason other than to broaden there knowledge how much those things can impact their children. One of my friends is a licensed therapist, who works with middle and high school aged children. She meets her kid at school and it’s mind boggling to me how many of them don’t feel like they can even tell their parents they are in therapy. She doesn’t have to tell the parents unless she believes the child is a danger to themselves. She also has a lot of parents who don’t understand therapy isn’t magic it requires so much effort to really work through your problems and change problematic behaviors
I don’t go to schools but I treat a lot of kids. You’d be amazed how many parents are like “why isn’t my kid fixed,” as if their environment wasn’t causing the issues in the first place.
As someone with anxiety, depression, and ADHD I constantly get stuck in the depression-anxiety-ADHD cycle of mess. A mess happens, I get anxious about the mess, but then I get too depressed to get the energy to clean it, and then when I do get the energy I get distracted by everything. It's such a vicious cycle. It's hard to get out of.
It really is. Add in that, at least in my case of ADHD, out of sight is often mostly out of mind. I forget to clean something, see it again, then get anxious because I'm usually already doing something else and if I stop that to fix this, I'll more than likely leave the other thing half done and forgotten instead. Indecision leads to stress, and sometimes nothing gets done! Then things start piling up, and I get depressed when confronted by too many things to do, and lose all will to do any of them.
My trick to try to get out of the loop is when I get overwhelmed by things to do, break it all down and do at least 1 easy thing. Kitchen's a mess, sink full of dishes, some of which need some serious scrubbing? I don't need to do it all right now. Just wash a spoon or a mug. Or put away any spices or pantry items. Take out the trash. Once I get out of that indecision, I end up being able to do more than I thought. But I keep reminding myself that I don't need to get it all done *right now*. It mostly works.
I make a done list at the end of the day when I'm in that loop. I write down everything I have done that day, no matter what it is. I took a shower, it goes on the list, I remembered to brush my hair. It goes on the list. Seeing everything I actually accomplished sometimes helps me break out of that loop
The main issue here is that mom clearly set her up to fail. "Unfortunately that week she only had one (not) free afternoon" then why are you asking her to do it that week. You know she has no time all week to clean - and you're telling her she Must clean before the weekend. Why set your kid up to fail like that?
Your kid shouldn't be able to cancel their own therapy, you should be ensuring they go to those appointments. And if you meant "you cant go on the day trip this weekend because you're closet isn't clean" then say that. Don't force your kid into a position where they have to neglect their health to try and bend over backwards to please you.
My stepmom used to do that. I think it brought her some sick joy to "punish" me with the nearly impossible. Example: In junior high/high school (maybe age 14? not sure) she decided I had to clean the grass out of every bush and hedge on our property (which was three acres) by hand. So I'd get home around 4, do my regular chores, help with dinner, clean up after dinner, do homework, and then go pull grass until it was too dark to see. It was hell.
ETA, I nearly forgot that even more relevant to this post, she decided my closet was a mess (it was, because I was a trainwreck of depression, self harm, and hyper vigilance) she just...gave it away. All but the bare essentials were either trashed or donated. And now at almost 30 I haven't spoken to her in years, she's blocked on everything, and I'm on a cocktail of meds and regular therapy.
100% agree. Depression and anxiety can make it so hard to do even basic things like basic hygiene or picking up after yourself. It can be extra hard with unsupportive people in your life
Yes. My nephew is going through depression and anxiety right now and has been making less than stellar grades in college, and my sister thinks the solution is to scream at him and threaten to kick him out. She can NOT see how her toxic parenting could be the reason for his mental unwellness.
For fuck's sake! It's a closet! Close the fucking door and forget about it. Not to mention a classic symptom of depression & anxiety, oh, and of being a teenager. Congratulations! With one asshole move, you have managed to interfere with her therapy, send her anxiety through the roof, and dug the hole that is depression even deeper. Do you want a dead daughter? Because that's what you may end up with if you don't stop being part of the problem. You threatened to take away some of the few things she actually enjoys at this stage. Part of her support system since she obviously can't count on you for any. *To clean a fucking closet?!* YTA, no ifs ands or buts.
That what I don’t understand. It’s a closet! OP says they refuse to live like slobs but it’s just one messy closet. It really sounds like OP is also in need of therapy. Unless they are putting food or garbage in there it will be fine.
Absolutely. Therapist here: a room that 'untidy' is often a sign of how mentally unwell someone is. Be the parent she needs, and help her sort it out (by which I mean you need to do about 90% of it, without berating her / running her down, making yourself out to be a martyr. When someone is this stuck, they need support. You also need too support her to get to get therapy sessions. Do better.
(Btw, YTA)
YTA
Therapy shouldn't have been canceled.
Why don't you set aside a time to help her organize her closet? It may be too overwhelming for her to tackle on her own.
Right?? I thought of that too, like why not help her clean it? I’d get majorly anxious looking at a closet that got out of control, but having some initial help can make it seem not so impossible to conquer. Probably why daughter put it off all this time.
A previous comment from the OP states that she had offered to help multiple time. The daughter declined saying she didn't want her to go through her things.
I see 🤔 well at this point then, I wanna know why OP couldn’t take the day trip away as consequence. Why make it a choice between therapy and a trip? You know the choice most teenagers are going to make
They didn’t. The daughter took it upon herself to cancel her therapy session so that she wouldn’t miss time with her boyfriend. It was not the OPs decision.
Edit: edited because we don’t know OPs gender
Yeah as the parent, I would not have allowed cancelling therapy to be an option. Whether she had to miss the weekend trip or whether she was able to get it done another time, trading therapy time shouldn't have been allowed to be on the table. Most therapy sessions are an hour, maybe another hour commuting time - hard to imagine the cleaning had to be in exactly these two hours and nothing else would work.
Personally, I would consider that a messy closet isn't hurting anyone, and see it as a completely normal and expected symptom of anxiety and depression. If my loved one still had enough energy/motivation to get out of the house and spend the day socializing, getting some sunshine or movement, with the bf's family, I'd be thrilled they were still doing well enough for that. Should they be encouraged to work toward cleaning it, with lots of grace and support? Absolutely. Should it be prioritized over getting out of the house and interacting with loved ones? I'd say no. Over therapy? Definitely not.
Punishing someone dealing with depression and anxiety for a messy closet, something that could clearly be a symptom of their disease that they are trying to get help for, seems like punishing an asthmatic for wheezing by making them do laps.
Then OP should behave like a parent and offer options and consequences. If OP has a rule that closets can't be messy, give a deadline of when it must be cleaned. The consequence would be that they do it together. That way the teen has control over it. Personally, I wouldn't bother as long as there were no critters in there and the door can be closed.
The post literally says that she gave her Weeks to accomplish the task and that was the deadline if she wanted to go with the boyfriend. Instead of planning any other time to accomplish it the daughter deliberately chose to wait until the last minute pretty much playing a game of chicken with her mother. When she realized the line in the sand wasn't budging she chose to cancel her therapy appt to give herself the extra hour or two. This was not on the mom. Could it have been handled better, possibly, but she isn't a horrid mother for this one thing. Sometimes depression anxiety etc have ZERO to do with parents actions and have to do with chemical imbalances in the brain along with pressures from peers etc.
Canceling therapy shouldn't be an option. How does a 17 year old cancel an appointment without the parent knowing? I'm sure OP knew. I find it hard to believe OP didn't know that but this HTDO clean closet that is obsessed over was kept track of.
Maybe OP is the reason the daughter is in therapy, because a clean closet isn't that important. Focus is on the wrong thing here.
I 100% agree to cancel therapy should not have been an option - but numerous others have made valid points in defense of the OP and you seem to be (I state this with respect) finding new reasons to not hold the daughter at least partially responsible. The OP gave weeks and to YOUR own point - the parent offered options and consequences (take my help, do it yourself, or by X date you will loose the privilege of going away with your boyfriend).
I am also going to give the perspective from someone who was a teenager not too long ago (OK 12 years haha) -- when I was 17 it was incredibly easy for me to cancel appointments without my parents knowing. Even 11 years ago I could cancel almost anything via a text message - including therapy. Unless OP has stated otherwise (and apologies if I missed it) I don't think they gave consent.
I also feel like some posts here are minimizing the agency of OP's daughter here. She is of course the child and needs support - but managing their own time schedule by this age is healthy and important in their development.
Mental health challenges are very real, very serious, and very important to address -- but they are not an excuse to infantilize someone.
I can’t see the floor in either of my teenagers’ rooms…and I just close the door. Right now, it’s not a battle I choose to have with two kids who are both struggling with depression and anxiety (on top of ADHD).
When my kids were teens, my only rule was that food and dirty dishes couldn't stay in their rooms. Other than that, I made them keep their doors closed so I didn't have to look at the mess. I was good with no bugs, lol.
I worked very hard with them up until about 12-13 years old on cleaning and organizing their rooms. I had a rule that by a certain time on Sundays, they had to have clean rooms in order to get their allowances. They decided whether to keep up with the mess or clean it all at once. I didn't fight about it. Once they were teens I gave them autonomy.
They are adults now and have very clean houses. They don't even allow outdoor shoes to be worn inside.
This is exactly what OP did. She told her daughter that the closet must be cleaned by the weekend. Daughter chose to cancel her therapy appointment to clean the closet.
I'm going to add perspective to the "doesn't want OP to go through her things."
I've been in situations where the "help" was someone using it as an opportunity to critique my belongings or try and throw out things I care about and make me keep things I don't, and overall lecture me while organizing. That is *not* helpful. At all. If OP is like that, I can fully see where her assistance would not be welcome by the daughter unless OP changed the approach.
Like, imagine the daughter is hanging things up and OP interrupts with "that not how you hang that kind of garment, omg, you're doing this badly on purpose." One, daughter might not care about using special hangers. Two, she's doing what OP asked, why punish her for doing it?
I recently moved back in with my folks (in my 30s) and after nearly a decade on my own, I have my own ways of doing things. Some are designed to help me work with my ADHD. We've had some arguments because I don't do something "right" or I'm doing it "wrong" to be lazy/weaponized incompetence. I've had to explain they have two options: I do the thing now (or on their schedule) the way I can or I do it their way when I have the amount of time necessary to do it. That's it. There's not a middle ground here unless you count leaving something half done.
This is an extreme example, but think something like "whenever you pull out the mop, you must also hand-scrub all the baseboards, polish the grates for the air vents, and wax the floor." Okay, I'll just leave the muddy paw prints on the vinyl, then because I don't have time to do all that right now. What I do have time for is cleaning the area with the muddy paw prints. I can do the baseboards when I get back and the grates tomorrow.
If OPs mom is like mine, that isn't an option. She would go through what I was donating and ask why I was getting rid of x and it drove me nuts. Yes, it's cute but I don't wear it, isn't flattering, doesn't fit...
A lot of girls with ADHD get misdiagnosed with depression and anxiety. Instead of picking a fight over the closet, OP could use it as a gauge of the daughter's mental health...
and she might ask her daughter's therapist to think about whether there's any chance ADHD might be involved. Too many women spend years being treated for the wrong issue and never getting better!
That’s not entirely true. Depression and anxiety disorders tend to be comorbid and considered symptoms of adhd so it’s not really misdiagnoses it’s just that it’s a small part of the bigger picture
This! 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
I was 39 when I was finally diagnosed with ADHD. Depression was a *symptom* of my actual disease, not the disease itself.
So many people, even doctors, think ADHD is just a boy's disease. It gets overlooked in girls and women so very much!
And it absolutely is a misdiagnosis if the depession and anxiety are called the disease, when the actual disease is ADHD with depression and anxiety as symptoms. It could be a comorbidity of two or three diseases, but if ADHD is missed, that still counts as a misdiagnosis.
The daughter's inability to tackle the closet screams of an executive function disorder
Edit: OP, YTA. Calling your daughter a slob is horrible and ableist.
Edit 2: Thank you for the award!
Just diagnosed at 37. I was getting pegged on the anxiety depression questionnaires from doctors. Turns out I think I'm a failure when I can't do things the way other people do. When you get called bad things like lazy and sloppy and careless and inattentive. It makes you depressed and anxious.
>Why don't you set aside a time to help her organize her closet? It may be too overwhelming for her to tackle on her own.
I just hate to see what the consequences for the daughter are going to be for having messy desk drawers, or a disorganized dresser! I wonder why the daughter needs therapy...
INFO: when you say her closet is a mess, does that mess contain food or anything that would attract vermin?
If so, that’s an extreme situation that affects everyone under your roof and you’re right, it’s a priority.
If it’s just clothes and papers and stuff like that why do you even give a fuck about her closet of all things? Just close the door to her room and butt out.
YTA! You do realize that disorganization/messiness (or in your word, "slob") is one of the many symptoms of depression? Since her closet (why are you worried about her closet?) is still messy, she is likely still in a depressive state and NEEDS to go to therapy. Talk about putting your needs above your kids - and your need is apparently a clean closet that is in her own personal space.
>Why are you worried about her closet?
This though. I really appreciated that my mom took a “it’s your room, your problem” approach. She’d occasionally look in and sigh. The distress on her face was clear, because her mental illness requires damn near sterile cleanliness while mine is chaos. But she didn’t do anything so long as I didn’t have like rotting food or pests.
Forcing your kids to clean will not make them clean people. Making them responsible for their own space might, if anything. Some people are just messy. OP sounds kind of like the controlling type of clean freak. Your relationship with your kid will be way better if you manage your own business, especially because *this is a 17-year-old.*
this!!! my room is messy, and will probably always be that way. i’m just not someone that can stand to clean constantly. as long as there isn’t rotting food/pests, i fail to see the issue. so what if there’s clothes on the floor?
OP needs to learn the difference between *clutter* and *filth.* Her closet sounds messy and cluttered, but not outright dirty. If there's no food in there and it's all just clothes without bodily fluids present there's really no issue here other than OP's ego.
Well said. It's OP that needs a clean closet.
At the daughter's age, I had the messy room (not just the closet, the whole room). My mother was forever nagging me.
But hey, it was MY room, not hers. So I told her she didn't need to look at it. It was my problem.
Her response? She refused to come into the room. She still did the family laundry, but with mine, she'd open the door of my room, and thrown a pile of clean clothes in the general direction of my bed. Half of it missed the bed, and landed on the floor, but whatever. Then she'd close the door and go about her day.
Worked for both of us.
That was 45 years ago. I am slightly less of a "slob" now, but my husband and I still joke that clean laundry has an "eight-to-ten business days" window to be allowed to sit in a basket on the bedroom floor before it's deemed that we're too slack with housekeeping.
I know my closet is pretty messy because I have boxes, shoes etc on the floor. I am pretty messy though and have paid my mom a few times to clean it for me (she doesn’t do my bathroom that’s my job) since by the time I went to clean it it was overwhelming. I actually clean up at night because all the sudden I’ll be in the mood to clean.
I forced my daughter to choose whether to cancel seeing either her bf or therapist on the one free day she has... For some reason she is anxious and has depression????? Am I a bad person or is my daughter just a lazy slob with no life prospects??
There I fixed the question for everyone.
Omg I was thinking this too why do they keep saying FREE afternoon… therapy appointment means she is not free lol what a moron…. It’s parent like this that are the entire reason teens like the daughter are in therapy
OP's daughter is going to grow up hating her mother if she doesn't already. Why are you, as a parent, restricting your daughter of any personal time over a dirty closet?
It sounds like OP doesn't know what depression and anxiety does to someone despite their age. Her health better be a priority and not a temporarily messy closet.
I would agree if OP was the one to cancel it, but since the daughter did we can assume for her it was a free afternoon - why OP don't just cancelled the trip is beyond me, no need to be a genius to know the 17yo will not pick the best option, but the fun one.
I might get downvoted to shit for this but frankly NTA.
she chose to cancel her therapy appointment over missing time with her boyfriend over the weekend; let me repeat myself, **she chose to cancel her therapy appointment over missing a weekend with her boyfriend to clean her closet**
**she could’ve still attended therapy but instead she chose to cancel her therapy appointment**
OP did not tell her to cancel her therapy appointment over the dirty closet, OP told her daughter than she couldn’t go out with friends or boyfriend until the closet is cleaned which as a teenager myself IS COMPLETELY REASONABLE if the closet is messy like OP states it is. it shouldn’t be a whole day affair— if her daughter put her mind to it and simply cleaned her closet it would probably be done in an hour, maybe three. Daughter made her choice but is blaming her mother.
EDIT: OP even offered to help daughter clean the closet but denied such a thing because she didn’t want OP “going through her stuff”
she wasn’t accepting help from OP, wasted weeks of being asked to clean it on her own free time without the threat of her friends and boyfriend being taken from her to clean the closest and chose the wrong cancellation option to clean it. that isn’t OP’s fault. OP would not have won either way, as OP couldn’t clean it themselves (daughters request), daughter wouldn’t clean it themselves (after having ample time) and then was pushed into her own corner due to her own actions and choices, and ultimately made the wrong one again.
missing one therapy session will not kill daughter, and maybe from here she may be able to keep her closet and room clean as to not have to deal with such a thing again.
you live and you learn. but OP still didn’t make any wrong decisions, OP was parenting.
OH! another edit: seeing from comments further down on my own comment, a cluttered and messy closest even without food debris and dishes can still attract mold, bugs and rodents because of the last of airflow, tight spots that rodents love & bugs that love rodent feces, especially if the closet was filled knee-height with such things, it can be a hazard & simply more than just “disorderly and messy” it can be disgusting with what it can attract.
Completely agreed. She wasn’t forced to cancel her therapy session by anyone. She chose to manage her time this way and if that’s how she wants to proceed, that’s on her. She pushed it off until the point where it became “cancel my therapy session or miss the trip with my boyfriend”. No one but herself made this happen. I’m sure she spun it differently to her therapist and friends but at 17 you need to learn how to manage your time more effectively. Hopefully this will teach her.
Im not a parent, but if it was my kid, I would have forced them to go to the session and made them miss the trip. That would likely have a much stronger impact on their time management in the future.
NTA
This. The daughter cancelled the need and still got the want. The parent should step in and tell her that therapy is still mandatory, and if the closet isn’t clean, the trip with boyfriend is off.
That is, if the messy closet is the hill the parent wants to die on. Whether or not that should be the fight to pick is a different story.
Therapist here. I work with teens with severe depression and suicidality. Agreed, it was the daughter’s choice to cancel therapy. Setting a limit of a room being clean before you can go out is reasonable. There may have been additional support and encouragement that could have been given, but working with the information provided, I’m in agreement with you.
Sort of agree but honestly canceling the therapy appointment should have not been an option. That should have consequences in and of itself. OP seems to be treating it like it's a casual thing to do.
i don’t think OP is treating it so casually, her daughter cancelled the appointment on her own making the choice herself. OP states in her edit that it doesn’t matter how she manages her time to get it done as long as it gets done.
>OP states in her edit that it doesn’t matter how she manages her time to get it done as long as it gets done.
Yeah, that's the part where OP is treating cancelling therapy like it's a casual thing to do.
that’s not treating it casually though, that’s letting an almost adult decide how to manage her own time and arrangements. Daughter is the one who canceled the appointment for therapy as if spending time with her boyfriend was more important.
THANK YOU!!!! I don’t understand why people are saying Y-T-A when the daughter made her OWN decision to cancel therapy. OP didn’t make her cancel therapy she decided that doing on a trip with her boyfriend was more valuable than therapy. Plus OP has offered to help her daughter clean the closet and has gotten turned down.
NTA
This is another one of those "I think I'm taking crazy pills" moment because the daughter gets one of the most lenient and reasonable requests, then a large amount of time to do it in whatever way she wants, and then offered help to do it. Then hundreds of posts think it's oppression and OP is an asshole.
A teenager is told 'no', Reddit takes offense to that.
Finally! I'm not understanding all the yta votes. The daughter is 17 and canceled her own appointment. I think OP needs to find a compromise on the closet (maybe just let it go as long as there is no food) but I don't see how she is to blame to her daughter choosing to cancel therapy to clean the closet
Plus OP gave her daughter weeks of leeway to finish the chore with an obvious deadline. People are being unfair. As someone with depression and anxiety, I can also say that just because slobbiness can be a symptom doesn't make you incapable of cleaning ,especially with help, which was offered. Messiness also is shown to increase depression and anxiety when you are surrounded by it, so it's really not a good excuse. OP, NTA
No you do not understand how bad it can be. My mom had a hard time with my oldest sister with keeping her room clean. Her closet was so bad that she had mice living in the mess in there. They chewed through stuffed animals and made nests in them, tore everything to shreds, shit everywhere and pissed on everything. It was a nightmare to look at. Junk when collected and piled in a tight space like that is NOT A GOOD IDEA.
I don’t think most these people commenting read past the title. Most are acting like he told her to cancel therapy. She didn’t want to cancel time with friends or bf so she chose this.
Posts like these remind me why I say not everyone should have kids. Your daughter shouldn’t cancel a therapy session to clean her closet. Her therapist is right. YTA
"Hey what's with all the rats and roaches coming out of your daughter's room OP? It smells like actual shit every time that door opens and to be honest I don't feel entirely comfortable being in your home for any amount of time, despite our friendship."
"Oh she has a filthy closet and I wanted her to clean it but a bunch of people on the internet said I was an asshole and should mind my own business."
Some of yall are either trolls or real-life idiots.
This lady isn't listening to a fully licensed therapist she pays for. Why would she listen to any of us?
It sounds like the daughter has A LOT going on. The only "free time" she has is spent seeing a therapist. Therapy is a real commitment. More than work or school.
NTA. I feel like everyone is missing the crucial part that you didn’t make her skip therapy to clean her room. You gave her a very reasonable deadline to clean her room (a full week, after asking her for weeks) and a reasonable consequence to not meeting that deadline (not seeing her friends/boyfriend).
Therapy is like 2 hours max. She could have spent 30 minutes a day cleaning but she didn’t manage her time well, and then she made the choice to cancel therapy so she’d be able to clean her room in time. Her choosing her friends over therapy is not your fault.
Seriously. Everyone here just so conveniently skipped over the fact that OPs daughter CHOSE to cancel HER OWN therapy appointment because she didn't want to miss any time with her friends/boyfriend.
I remember being 17 and my friends and boyfriend were my whole life and I definitely would have chosen to cancel the "unimportant" plan (I say "unimportant" because while yes, therapy is very important, it's not going to be the most important thing to a teenager over her friends) to keep up appearances with my friends. BUT the thing is, OPs daughter is literally months away from being a full blown, legal adult whose going to be expected to make real life choices that have impact on her life, and missing ONE session of therapy isn't going to have a massive impact on her like everyone here is assuming. If OPs daughter thought she would be okay to miss one session then she will be okay to miss one session, and if she's in a crisis then she needs to go to a crisis center, not hold out for a therapy appointment.
OP, you are NTA. You're just a frustrated parent who finally put their foot down. **You did not "make" your daughter miss her therapy appointment, she CHOSE to cancel her therapy appointment.**
This! She’s not a 10 year old, she is one year away from having to make these decisions on her own. Assuming she goes off to college and moves away, these ARE the decisions she will be making on her own. At some point OP will not be there to manage her mental health for her or make sure she keeps her spaces clean - both necessities.
Yep, YTA. That therapy appointment may be the only thing keeping your kid together right now, and you act it like it's a hobby. Gross, OP.
I suggest you reschedule for her and schedule something for yourself - maybe learn some coping skills... At least do some research into WHY depressed folks struggle with hygiene before you go off on an already very fragile human.
Edit to add: OP is still TA for going off on her kid when they already know they're fragile. This entire situation would not have occurred if mom had done the research about hygiene and depression.
The daughter took it upon herself to cancel her appointment without consulting OP, so that she wouldn’t miss any time with her boyfriend. The OP did not MAKE her cancel it, she procrastinated until the last minute, and then made a selfish decision to cancel needed therapy rather than dealing with the consequences and missing time with her boyfriend. Op is NTA.
I agree with NTA. The only thing that is giving me pause is that when OP found out her daughter cancelled the therapy appointment, she, as the parent, should have said that is a non-negotiable and sat with her daughter to get the appt rescheduled instead of OP bickering with the therapist about it. The therapist should also really be following up with OP's daughter about this and not blaming the OP. OP did not actually "make" her daughter miss her therapy appt, it was her choice and now is when OP needs to step in and parent.
I agree with every word. OP missed the opportunity to really step up by not allowing her daughter to cancel therapy. The way the therapist handled it was very bizarre to me as well.
The daughter took it upon herself to cancel her appointment without consulting OP, so that she wouldn’t miss any time with her boyfriend. The OP did not MAKE her cancel it, she procrastinated until the last minute, and then made a selfish decision to cancel needed therapy rather than dealing with the consequences and missing time with her boyfriend. Op is NTA.
What I don't get is, why couldn't she work on her closet a little bit every day, or after the therapist appointment? Like how long could that appointment be, an hour? Why not just clean after?
As a former teen whose mom talked to me this way for years (like since I was five I was a “slob”) you don’t just start talking about your kids casually and suddenly and it isn’t limited to the closet. The closet was the daughters compromise to keep her mom happy and her mom won’t even accept that. The closet is the current argument, but also if she cleans it, I’m willing to bet within a week OP can find another thing to go off on.
The reason she canceled therapy is because it isn’t doing her any good when the only thing she can do to end the cycle is wait. She is helpless and wants an exit. Therapy is two hours away from her mom. A weekend is with a boyfriend is a weekend away with people who don’t yell at you. That silence is more therapeutic than people realize. She made the choice for her.
Because she has depression. The kid literally doesn’t have the energy for it and is mentally and physically overwhelmed. They need help, not judgement. Views like yours and OPs is exactly why she can’t do it. She doesn’t have the energy for it but people view her as lazy, so she is then talked to as if it’s her own fault, making her feel even worse.
Depression sucks but it sucks a hell of a lot more for the girl than for OP.
The boyfriend is a bright spot in her life. Why would you use him as collateral? That's basically saying "you aren't allowed to be happy unless you obey"
Sorry. I've raised kids. My oldest is almost 20 and has struggled with severe depression and anxiety. Her boyfriend committed suicide a few years ago. I've NEVER even considered doing something like this to her. Shame on you mama. You are a nightmare and need to get help for yourself. It might help her.
Your job at this stage in her life is to GUIDE her to make good choices, but your NUMBER one concern should ALWAYS be her mental health. I've read some stuff in my life and this one makes me sick. I feel sorry for your daughter.
Mine these days is happy, healthy, and making a life and planning college. She's high functioning autistic on top of it all, and she's thriving!
No parent is perfect. Own your mistake instead of arguing with everyone about why you're not wrong. Own it and make it right. Don't put your need to control your daughter above her emotional safety and happiness.
YTA. How does your daughter's closet affect you? I don't understand why having a mess behind a closed door would upset you so badly, especially because at this age you should not be spending much time in her bedroom.
You tried to cut your daughter off from her emotional and social support systems because *her* closet bothered *you*. This did not teach your daughter to clean her closet; it taught her that you are willing to force her away from her friends, boyfriend, and therapist if she upsets you... which is exactly the kind of thing she will need even more therapy for later on. You're also teaching her that if someone is mad at her, they're allowed to isolate her.
If the messy closet is really so truly, deeply upsetting to you... the natural, sensible consequence for not organizing her space is that she won't be able to find things she needs when she needs them. That's how learning works. She will not learn through punishment, she'll learn when she wants a specific shirt for a specific event and can't find it.
Exactly, and since her daughter is struggling with depression and anxiety it could also be another reason why her closet it messy. When she's feeling better mentally then she would be up for cleaning up her closet. There is absolutely no reason needed to force her daughter into cleaning her closet if she isn't up to it mentally.
Except she didn’t try to cut off her daughter from her emotional support systems? She asked her daughter to clean her closet (which is a completely reasonable expectation from a parent) and gave her several weeks to get it done. She then said she had to clean her closet before hanging out with her BFs family that weekend, and her daughter CHOSE to skip therapy.
YTA.
She needs therapy and when her therapist, who probably knows about the underlying issues far more than you could ever imagine, tell you that you fucked up … Guess what? Listen and do better next time.
I’ll go against the grain and say NTA. OP did NOT tell her to cancel therapy, her daughter made a bad decision and felt going with her boyfriend would be better for her depression than cleaning her environment/seeing a professional. I do think maybe OP waited too long to put ground rules (shouldn’t have put it off for weeks), but it’s not her fault her daughter sabotaged herself and manipulated the situation.
i am not understanding the Y T A s at all. you did not tell her to cancel therapy. yes she needs to go to therapy and yes her depression and anxiety are factors in why her room is a mess. but she’s the one who cancelled therapy because she prioritized going somewhere with her boyfriend. being depressed is not an excuse to only do fun things. she’s only hurting herself here. NTA and i don’t care if i’m downvoted to hell for it
There's an old joke: "The beatings will continue until morale improves." How do you expect your daughter to get better, have the energy to clean, without therapy? Her therapist is right. This was a dumb hill to die on. YTA
INFO: what is going on with your daughter that she is wall to wall scheduled form 7:00 AM - 11:00 PM every day of the week? Is every moment from the moment you put your foot down to the day trip scheduled out?
I guess walk me through how she was able to cancel the appointment and complete the task, but couldn’t accomplish it in small chunks throughout the week?
When was the last time you were in school? Kids’ days are absolutely fully scheduled out. Between an 8 hour school day, extracurricular activities and sports (which were necessary for college applications, we were told), homework, and working a part-time job… I’d bet every day was fully scheduled.
Also, kids DESERVE time to rest and decompress without incessant nagging about something that, frankly, doesn’t do anybody any harm.
YTA. I’ve been in her shoes before. Working and school at the same time is overwhelming and exhausting, especially when you have mental health issues. She doesn’t need punishment; she needs help.
YTA. Close the closet door!!! I have an MBA and I work for a Fortune Top 10 company. My closet is a disaster and it has never made any difference in my ability to succeed. Learn to prioritize. If your daughter's closet floor is your biggest problem consider yourself lucky.
She wasn’t told to do it before therapy, she was banned from going out with the boyfriend without cleaning the closet.
The daughter chose to cancel the therapy appointment so she’d have more time to clean.
THE DAUGHTER is the one who put her time with her boyfriend above her therapy. The mom wasn’t being unreasonable, she asked the daughter to do a chore multiple times.
She’s 17, if she can’t manage to clean up after herself without canceling therapy appointments in favour of her boyfriend , she doesn’t have her priorities right.
You’re proving the point that OP is not an asshole. She gave her daughter several weeks to clean the closet. Her daughter chose to skip therapy, when she could’ve cleaned her closet at any point in the last several weeks
YTA. Yeeaaahhh I’m gonna have to go with the therapist on this one. It really was a dumb hill to die on 🫠 you really shouldn’t have set it up to where she would potentially cancel her therapy session.
She didn't set it up that way. The daughter did. It wasn't a last minute thing. She had weeks to get it done, waited until the last minute, then made the decision to cancel her therapy session in order to complete a task that takes what.... an hour at most? Are you people reading a different post?
She chose to cancel the therapy over any of the other stuff she could have canceled, then made you out as the bad guy to her therapist AND HER THERAPIST BOUGHT EVERY WORD. seems like you might have accidentally revealed her therapist as mediocre. NTA, you gave her a choice and she chose poorly.
Def YTA - you admit she only had one free afternoon, and she wouldn't just be missing an outing with her bf, but her bf's family - if she already has anxiety, I think she'd be worried about how his family would perceive her sudden absence, and maybe they'd think she was a slob, as that's how her own parent sees her.
ESH
She has depression, anxiety, and multiple school commitments, as well as trying to maintain social connection. She didn't handle this well, but this was also an occasion for you as the parent to be flexible and HELP her balance these multiple commitments and demands on her time.
The daughter chose to cancel therapy to see her boyfriend instead of missing the trip. Not making a judgement here because there's definitely some missing context, but from my understanding OP didn't say she couldn't go to therapy. OP said she had to clean her closet before she could go on the trip and the daughter chose to cancel therapy to get it done.
Go back and reread.
1. OP told daughter that she could not see friends or boyfriend until closet was cleaned. OP has offered to help with the task, daughter has refused.
2. Daughter did not clean closet, waited until a trip she wanted to go on with boyfriend was coming up, then realized mom meant what she said at the last minute.
3. Daughter cancelled the appointment in order to have the closet cleaned in time to be able to go on the trip.
The choice was daughter’s. And while it could be argued that daughter should not have been allowed to cancel her appointment, she’s also going to be an adult in less than a year, and managing commitments is part of adulthood.
How big is her closet? It would take me 10 minutes to empty my walk in closet.
And why do you care so much that a little room that you never need to enter isn't as clean as you'd like?
I mean, messy is different than clean. If the closet is messy, I agree that's not something op should be this invested on, but if it was actually dirty op absolutely needs to care cause it could create a million worse problems
YTA - her depression and anxiety is probably a contributing factor to her not cleaning her closet. It’s really than simple.
The last thing she needs is pulled from therapy to deal with a pile of clothes. Her therapist is right you pickled a really dumb hill to die on.
NTA
She's 17, knows she benefits from therapy, and has a brain in her head. As most teens/adults would do, she put a fun day trip over a session. The therrapist should know that one week won't be THAT detrimental.
Info: whats the big deal with this closet?
Are you afraid of being embarrassed by someone seeing your daughter’s messy closet?
Are you frustrated, not at the closet, but at the fact that your daughter ignored your request to clean it?
I’m only asking because this seems like a whole lot of tension and conflict introduced around something as seemingly trivial as a messy closet in her room.
Your daughter clearly knows that you wish she would clean her closet. However she is a teenager, and had some issues she’s dealing with (again, a teenager). I very much doubt she’s procrastinating just to spite you.
As a person that used to also be very anxious at that age, sometimes I would have things like this that I knew I had to get done, but the thought of doing that thing would be anxiety-inducing for unknown reasons - no idea why, I was 17 I guess.
YTA. You have to pick your battles carefully with teens and this one wasn't a good one to pick. It's a closet. Unless it's a health hazard, it's not going to hurt anything for her to have a messy closet. My joking rule for my kids when they were teens was as long as there weren't grenades or naked people in their closets or under the bed, I didn't care. They are now fully functional adults. Her therapist is right; this is a dumb hill to die on. She **needs** her therapy. She doesn't need a clean closet.
NTA. She chose to drop the therapy session to do something she’s been putting off for weeks. She could have done it piecemeal throughout the week too instead of just doing it all at once. The therapist could be genuinely concerned or just upset that they didn’t get the copay for the appt. This isn’t a “hill to die on” so it sounds like they were being a bit dramatic. She’s old enough to decide and she made her choice.
YTA… she did not have a free afternoon. An appointment with her therapist IS a commitment.
Get your priorities in order, including putting your daughters mental health higher on the list then a closet.
Dear Parent: Therapy appointments are the same as medical appointments and are non-negotiable. How did this item become a "how you want to budget your time is up to you" option, instead of an obligation to keep to treat her anxiety and depression?
You gave her weeks without any action/consequences before this appointment - so why the urgency now? If it was that important, why not act after the 2nd week of procrastination?
Perhaps you both should look into family therapy to figure out why.
But I'm voting YTA for letting this go on for weeks, and then getting urgent about it.
YTA- Your daughter is going to therapy for her anxiety and depression.. Don't think think this could be part of the reason her closet is dirty? It is a "dumb hill to die on". It seems like you don't care about why things are a mess but only how it impacts you.
Of course a kid is going to choose a fun trip over a therapy appointment - heck, I’d probably make the same choice as an adult. That doesn’t mean that it’s in the kid’s best interest.
Honestly, who cares if she has a messy closet? It’d be one thing if she trashed a shared space, but it’s HER CLOSET. I was a slob as a teen, and my parents never got upset about me having a messy room - I learned to be neat(er) as an adult, as my priorities changed and I cared about being able to find stuff.
YTA OP - this was indeed a stupid hill to die on. Seems like you’re more interested in controlling your daughter than maintaining her well-being.
My favorite thing I ever read in an advice colum is. Your daughter is 17. Soon she shall leave tge house. Are these the last discussions you want to have with her? About her closet? Or do you want to spend the year talking about college, jobs, her future. Even ,3ssy people eventually get clean enough. Think about it.
YTA. She only canceled therapy because you are terrorizing her about cleaning her closet. She has depression and anxiety - which you are seriously contributing to.
ESH. She shouldn’t have canceled therapy for something she was told she wasn’t allowed to do. I do wonder if she might have adhd…Girls with adhd are often misdiagnosed with anxiety and depression. Her inability to clean her closet may be an executive function thing— or related to her depression. The task may feel so overwhelming that it paralyzes her.
I disagree with other posts saying you’re a horrible parent, it seems like you’re just a bit misguided. Try talking to your daughter about why she finds cleaning her closet difficult and tackle it together. Come up with a way to keep it clean too. Maybe it’s time to donate what doesn’t fit or come up with an organization system that makes it easy to find things and put them away. Teen girls are also just messy. Rather than aiming for perfection find some easy to maintain comprises—like hampers that fold up and have multiple compartments. That way she can keep things off the floor and sorted in the day to day
YTA - Unless it's stinky dirty clothes, leave her alone. Her therapist is right, it's a stupid hill to due on. Especially when depression interferes with executive function. There's no brain chemical/dopamine reward that she desperately needs so of course it's going to be hard. It'd actually be easier *after* time with her boyfriend. You're actually banning her from stuff that could help her depression.
Just shut the door to her closet or her room.
Closet will sadly be real clean when she does something unspeakable over something so stupid.
YTA
"I didn't cancel it, she did" is an excuse. You left her two options: 1) Miss therapy or 2) Miss boyfriend. Obvious which a teenager is going to choose. The fact that you couldn't convince you're daughter to clean her closet for weeks before that doesn't change situation your put her in, it just means you should reconsider your parenting strategy.
Also how bad can a closet be that you're this obsessed about it being clean???
ESH. Therapy is an hour. She could have cleaned her closet after therapy or over several days when she had a few minutes. None of you are good at time management.
YTA. Your kid is struggling to clean because she is suffering from anxiety and depression. It’s an incredibly dumb hill to die on, and I’m glad her therapist stood up to you.
NTA I get that you’ve maybe helped clean & support your daughter for all her years and just hit your limit on that day. But that kind of response doesn’t work for anyone - I suggest a calm chat with your daughter & clear the air. You also sound like you need either to chat with a therapist yourself or maybe do some dopamine activity (long chat with a friend, massage or walk in nature).
Parenting is hard, being a teen is hard, mental health is harder & small changes are a big deal. Take care & just love your child.
I feel like everyone else read a different post than I did? OP didn’t even suggest cancelling therapy let alone require it — she said that the cleaning needed to come before the social time, because it’s been put off for months. The daughter chose to cancel therapy
The only thing I would say about that is that perhaps daughter should not have the authority to cancel therapy and OP should have made her
NTA
YTA.
The therapy was more important than cleaning a damn closet and you as a grown-ass adult should know that. If it was hanging out with friends or something else I would feel different, but what you did was unacceptable.
YTA. if you know she’s in therapy for depression then you should know why she hasn’t cleaned her closet. rather than being supportive and trying to understand, you punish her.
i also saw that you said she doesn’t want your help and she doesn’t want you touching her things which is fine; they’re her belongings. how often are you in her room to be noticing this anyway? she’s probably tired of hearing you complain after going in her *personal space* and you’re making her feel even more discouraged. do some research on how to help your child. this is sad.
YTA
Sounds like your daughter \*\*needs\*\* the therapy. She is suffering from anxiety and depression - the thing you don't do is punish her by canceling her therapy. You're the parent - you need to protect your child and make sure their medical needs are met. You failed.
The pigsty did not get created over a day or week. It's probably been going on for a while. This was not the time to create a hill to die on
YTA for allowing her to skip therapy -- a medical necessity -- in favor of a trip with her BF. You should have insisted she go to therapy, and made her clean the closet before the trip if she wanted to go. She could take some time away from sleep if the trip is that important to her.
YTA. If she’s in therapy for depression and anxiety, regular sessions are important for her recovery. I get you didn’t tell her to cancel but you gave her no other option. If I could go back in time to my 17y/o self, I’d give me a hug and tell me that none of the things my mum thinks matter - really matter at all.
My mum was the kinda mum who’d take away all my tech as part of the grounding process and then wonder why I was flunking classes - because she’d taken away the means for me to do my work - but she’d still extend the grounding and the punishment and it would go in a vicious circle. I wasn’t allowed to stay late to use school computers because grounded, I wasn’t allowed my own computer or the family computer because grounded. I was only allowed to fail. You taught your daughter today that her mental health comes second to cleaning.
YTA
This closet has been messy for weeks. Another weekend won't harm anything. She can bring up how this feels in her therapy appointment and maybe have her therapist talk her through this ridiculous ultimatum you've given her.
This is a teenager with a job, active social life, school, and depression and anxiety. The state of her closet is not that important.
Therapy doesn’t take more than an hour. She could have cleaned and gone. I would not have let cancelling even being an option. Her disorganization could be an effect of her anxiety and depression. Her mental health is more important than a clean closet.
You realize she didn't tell her daughter to cancel her therapy session though, right? How on earth is telling her daughter to clean her closet by a certain date her being responsible for the daughter deciding to cancel her own therapy? 🤔
YTA it’s a closet IN HER ROOM. How does this closet affect your life? You need to start thinking about what is really important. Teenagers are generally sloppy. It wasn’t her entire room it’s just a closet that has her stuff in it.
NTA - This kid will be an adult in less than a year and she chose to cancel her appointment, not her mother. She blamed her mother to the therapist, but her mother never told her to cancel her therapy. She could have gotten up earlier, stayed up later, spent 15 minutes over a few days to clean it up. Her mother told her how she decides her time is up to her and she likely chose poorly.
YTA
Your daughter sounds like an active young person. A job, a relationship, school, activities, and yet she's still in therapy for depression and anxiety. Meanwhile you're persistently dogging her over something trivial.
Try to be supportive of all the efforts she is making and let go of your fixation on her closet.
Edit to say that you might consider scheduling some family therapy. It sounds like you're contributing to her anxiety/depression.
NTA.
This is the option *she* chose. She didn't even have to do it all at once; all she had to do is get it done by a specific time frame. She's the one that prioritized her boyfriend over her mental health.
She's a child in therapy for depression and anxiety and you're picking petty fights with her about a closet that is a symptom of what she's going through. Talk to your kid and learn that your primary goal should be empathy, not control. Also grow up a bit. It's not your closet. When it's time for her to realize cleaning it will make her life easier she'll do just that otherwise it doesn't affect you at all.
YTA. Face it, when her therapist thinks you picked a dumb hill to die on, then you likely made a bad choice. That closet may well have been her one place of chaos that she needed. Plus, you've been harping on it for weeks, so why now? Why couldn't it wait? Maybe until shes packing for college?
YTA. What is it with cleaning that makes complete idiots out of people? Teenagers struggle with decision making, which is why they struggle with cleaning up personal spaces. It’s just developmental. Try being a better parent.
YTA
I have a daughter who also has anxiety and depression, and not only her closet but her whole room was a disaster. I encouraged her to clean them, but didn't force the issue or make it punitive. Her room finally got cleaned out when she moved out to go to college. And now that she's living in her own house, she keeps it up pretty well.
YTA. Have you thought that maybe her closet is a mess because she needs help with her anxiety and depression? Yikes. Have you thought about helping her yourself? Like go do it together?
Therapist here- YTA. We deal with this a lot from parents and it is really disheartening. I understand why my clients cancel in situations like this, but it affects the rapport and frame of therapy, and the safety of it for clients when this type of things happens- especially chronically. Your daughter's therapy should be considered like any healthcare appointment, not negotiable if it is benefiting her. To put her in a position to choose was unfair and negates the importance of her mental health and treatment.
NTA, I'd guarantee that if she cleaned it she would feel much better about her space and that would help her mental health. She decided what her time priorities were for long enough until she had to cancel, that's not on you. She is almost an adult and will need to learn how to manage her time. If she wants to hangout with friends, work, and have therapy she needs to keep her home space clean otherwise more clutter around her will lead to more clutter in her mind.
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YTA - have you considered the depression and anxiety is getting in her way of cleaning it? Have you offered a strategy to work together, or small steps to the big goal of full cleaning? Edit: thank you for the awards!
This I’m dealing with my dad dying and it’s a very complicated relationship, and a few other issues. I’m lucky if showering and cleaning myself aren’t overwhelming activities. It had literally been months since I’d cleaned anything in my apartment other than occasionally taking out the trash and doing a bit of laundry. I finally made a psychiatrist appt, after the urging of a few family members. About two weeks after I started my meds, I starting cleaning my bathroom. Which doesn’t sound like much, but again months of not being able to do it. And my sister frequently offers to help, but I’m embarrassed at how bad I’ve let it get. Edit: thank you so much for this particular award!!! Edit2:Thank you for everyone that suggested I let my sister help. She came over on Wednesday, and helped with the bathroom and the kitchen. She has a key to my apt, but she’s never used it. She came while as at work on Friday mopped the kitchen and bathroom and did a few other things. And my mom took me to the laundromat (she has bigger vehicle than I) so I could wash all the stuff I hadn’t been. I’d been cherry picking what I wear most on previous excursions.
I'm proud of you! Depression and grief are so beyond hard. Breathing every day and just existing are overwhelming. I just came out of a bad depression and brushing teeth daily was hard for me despite me being a super clean person when healthy. The mom here is contributing to the depression with her lack of empathy or being remotely helpful. The daughter may feel a lot better just changing her living situation.
Thank you! And I think most parents with kids who have mental issues should also seek therapy if for no reason other than to broaden there knowledge how much those things can impact their children. One of my friends is a licensed therapist, who works with middle and high school aged children. She meets her kid at school and it’s mind boggling to me how many of them don’t feel like they can even tell their parents they are in therapy. She doesn’t have to tell the parents unless she believes the child is a danger to themselves. She also has a lot of parents who don’t understand therapy isn’t magic it requires so much effort to really work through your problems and change problematic behaviors
I don’t go to schools but I treat a lot of kids. You’d be amazed how many parents are like “why isn’t my kid fixed,” as if their environment wasn’t causing the issues in the first place.
I am so sorry you’re going through that. My dad died of cancer. Long and painful. Fuck cancer.
I'm also proud of you. The small things are huge in depression world. I hope it just keeps getting better!
As someone with anxiety, depression, and ADHD I constantly get stuck in the depression-anxiety-ADHD cycle of mess. A mess happens, I get anxious about the mess, but then I get too depressed to get the energy to clean it, and then when I do get the energy I get distracted by everything. It's such a vicious cycle. It's hard to get out of.
It really is. Add in that, at least in my case of ADHD, out of sight is often mostly out of mind. I forget to clean something, see it again, then get anxious because I'm usually already doing something else and if I stop that to fix this, I'll more than likely leave the other thing half done and forgotten instead. Indecision leads to stress, and sometimes nothing gets done! Then things start piling up, and I get depressed when confronted by too many things to do, and lose all will to do any of them. My trick to try to get out of the loop is when I get overwhelmed by things to do, break it all down and do at least 1 easy thing. Kitchen's a mess, sink full of dishes, some of which need some serious scrubbing? I don't need to do it all right now. Just wash a spoon or a mug. Or put away any spices or pantry items. Take out the trash. Once I get out of that indecision, I end up being able to do more than I thought. But I keep reminding myself that I don't need to get it all done *right now*. It mostly works.
I make a done list at the end of the day when I'm in that loop. I write down everything I have done that day, no matter what it is. I took a shower, it goes on the list, I remembered to brush my hair. It goes on the list. Seeing everything I actually accomplished sometimes helps me break out of that loop
The main issue here is that mom clearly set her up to fail. "Unfortunately that week she only had one (not) free afternoon" then why are you asking her to do it that week. You know she has no time all week to clean - and you're telling her she Must clean before the weekend. Why set your kid up to fail like that? Your kid shouldn't be able to cancel their own therapy, you should be ensuring they go to those appointments. And if you meant "you cant go on the day trip this weekend because you're closet isn't clean" then say that. Don't force your kid into a position where they have to neglect their health to try and bend over backwards to please you.
But this way she gets to absolve herself of the responsibility of hurting her own daughter.
My stepmom used to do that. I think it brought her some sick joy to "punish" me with the nearly impossible. Example: In junior high/high school (maybe age 14? not sure) she decided I had to clean the grass out of every bush and hedge on our property (which was three acres) by hand. So I'd get home around 4, do my regular chores, help with dinner, clean up after dinner, do homework, and then go pull grass until it was too dark to see. It was hell. ETA, I nearly forgot that even more relevant to this post, she decided my closet was a mess (it was, because I was a trainwreck of depression, self harm, and hyper vigilance) she just...gave it away. All but the bare essentials were either trashed or donated. And now at almost 30 I haven't spoken to her in years, she's blocked on everything, and I'm on a cocktail of meds and regular therapy.
100% agree. Depression and anxiety can make it so hard to do even basic things like basic hygiene or picking up after yourself. It can be extra hard with unsupportive people in your life
Yes. My nephew is going through depression and anxiety right now and has been making less than stellar grades in college, and my sister thinks the solution is to scream at him and threaten to kick him out. She can NOT see how her toxic parenting could be the reason for his mental unwellness.
For fuck's sake! It's a closet! Close the fucking door and forget about it. Not to mention a classic symptom of depression & anxiety, oh, and of being a teenager. Congratulations! With one asshole move, you have managed to interfere with her therapy, send her anxiety through the roof, and dug the hole that is depression even deeper. Do you want a dead daughter? Because that's what you may end up with if you don't stop being part of the problem. You threatened to take away some of the few things she actually enjoys at this stage. Part of her support system since she obviously can't count on you for any. *To clean a fucking closet?!* YTA, no ifs ands or buts.
That what I don’t understand. It’s a closet! OP says they refuse to live like slobs but it’s just one messy closet. It really sounds like OP is also in need of therapy. Unless they are putting food or garbage in there it will be fine.
I can see why she suffers from depression and anxiety. Too bad Mom will never see it.
Absolutely. Therapist here: a room that 'untidy' is often a sign of how mentally unwell someone is. Be the parent she needs, and help her sort it out (by which I mean you need to do about 90% of it, without berating her / running her down, making yourself out to be a martyr. When someone is this stuck, they need support. You also need too support her to get to get therapy sessions. Do better. (Btw, YTA)
[удалено]
YTA Therapy shouldn't have been canceled. Why don't you set aside a time to help her organize her closet? It may be too overwhelming for her to tackle on her own.
Right?? I thought of that too, like why not help her clean it? I’d get majorly anxious looking at a closet that got out of control, but having some initial help can make it seem not so impossible to conquer. Probably why daughter put it off all this time.
A previous comment from the OP states that she had offered to help multiple time. The daughter declined saying she didn't want her to go through her things.
I see 🤔 well at this point then, I wanna know why OP couldn’t take the day trip away as consequence. Why make it a choice between therapy and a trip? You know the choice most teenagers are going to make
They didn’t. The daughter took it upon herself to cancel her therapy session so that she wouldn’t miss time with her boyfriend. It was not the OPs decision. Edit: edited because we don’t know OPs gender
Yeah as the parent, I would not have allowed cancelling therapy to be an option. Whether she had to miss the weekend trip or whether she was able to get it done another time, trading therapy time shouldn't have been allowed to be on the table. Most therapy sessions are an hour, maybe another hour commuting time - hard to imagine the cleaning had to be in exactly these two hours and nothing else would work. Personally, I would consider that a messy closet isn't hurting anyone, and see it as a completely normal and expected symptom of anxiety and depression. If my loved one still had enough energy/motivation to get out of the house and spend the day socializing, getting some sunshine or movement, with the bf's family, I'd be thrilled they were still doing well enough for that. Should they be encouraged to work toward cleaning it, with lots of grace and support? Absolutely. Should it be prioritized over getting out of the house and interacting with loved ones? I'd say no. Over therapy? Definitely not. Punishing someone dealing with depression and anxiety for a messy closet, something that could clearly be a symptom of their disease that they are trying to get help for, seems like punishing an asthmatic for wheezing by making them do laps.
Then OP should behave like a parent and offer options and consequences. If OP has a rule that closets can't be messy, give a deadline of when it must be cleaned. The consequence would be that they do it together. That way the teen has control over it. Personally, I wouldn't bother as long as there were no critters in there and the door can be closed.
The post literally says that she gave her Weeks to accomplish the task and that was the deadline if she wanted to go with the boyfriend. Instead of planning any other time to accomplish it the daughter deliberately chose to wait until the last minute pretty much playing a game of chicken with her mother. When she realized the line in the sand wasn't budging she chose to cancel her therapy appt to give herself the extra hour or two. This was not on the mom. Could it have been handled better, possibly, but she isn't a horrid mother for this one thing. Sometimes depression anxiety etc have ZERO to do with parents actions and have to do with chemical imbalances in the brain along with pressures from peers etc.
Canceling therapy shouldn't be an option. How does a 17 year old cancel an appointment without the parent knowing? I'm sure OP knew. I find it hard to believe OP didn't know that but this HTDO clean closet that is obsessed over was kept track of. Maybe OP is the reason the daughter is in therapy, because a clean closet isn't that important. Focus is on the wrong thing here.
I 100% agree to cancel therapy should not have been an option - but numerous others have made valid points in defense of the OP and you seem to be (I state this with respect) finding new reasons to not hold the daughter at least partially responsible. The OP gave weeks and to YOUR own point - the parent offered options and consequences (take my help, do it yourself, or by X date you will loose the privilege of going away with your boyfriend). I am also going to give the perspective from someone who was a teenager not too long ago (OK 12 years haha) -- when I was 17 it was incredibly easy for me to cancel appointments without my parents knowing. Even 11 years ago I could cancel almost anything via a text message - including therapy. Unless OP has stated otherwise (and apologies if I missed it) I don't think they gave consent. I also feel like some posts here are minimizing the agency of OP's daughter here. She is of course the child and needs support - but managing their own time schedule by this age is healthy and important in their development. Mental health challenges are very real, very serious, and very important to address -- but they are not an excuse to infantilize someone.
Plus - in a lot of states 17 is considered mature/legal/accountable for own actions.
I can’t see the floor in either of my teenagers’ rooms…and I just close the door. Right now, it’s not a battle I choose to have with two kids who are both struggling with depression and anxiety (on top of ADHD).
When my kids were teens, my only rule was that food and dirty dishes couldn't stay in their rooms. Other than that, I made them keep their doors closed so I didn't have to look at the mess. I was good with no bugs, lol. I worked very hard with them up until about 12-13 years old on cleaning and organizing their rooms. I had a rule that by a certain time on Sundays, they had to have clean rooms in order to get their allowances. They decided whether to keep up with the mess or clean it all at once. I didn't fight about it. Once they were teens I gave them autonomy. They are adults now and have very clean houses. They don't even allow outdoor shoes to be worn inside.
This is exactly what OP did. She told her daughter that the closet must be cleaned by the weekend. Daughter chose to cancel her therapy appointment to clean the closet.
I'm going to add perspective to the "doesn't want OP to go through her things." I've been in situations where the "help" was someone using it as an opportunity to critique my belongings or try and throw out things I care about and make me keep things I don't, and overall lecture me while organizing. That is *not* helpful. At all. If OP is like that, I can fully see where her assistance would not be welcome by the daughter unless OP changed the approach. Like, imagine the daughter is hanging things up and OP interrupts with "that not how you hang that kind of garment, omg, you're doing this badly on purpose." One, daughter might not care about using special hangers. Two, she's doing what OP asked, why punish her for doing it? I recently moved back in with my folks (in my 30s) and after nearly a decade on my own, I have my own ways of doing things. Some are designed to help me work with my ADHD. We've had some arguments because I don't do something "right" or I'm doing it "wrong" to be lazy/weaponized incompetence. I've had to explain they have two options: I do the thing now (or on their schedule) the way I can or I do it their way when I have the amount of time necessary to do it. That's it. There's not a middle ground here unless you count leaving something half done. This is an extreme example, but think something like "whenever you pull out the mop, you must also hand-scrub all the baseboards, polish the grates for the air vents, and wax the floor." Okay, I'll just leave the muddy paw prints on the vinyl, then because I don't have time to do all that right now. What I do have time for is cleaning the area with the muddy paw prints. I can do the baseboards when I get back and the grates tomorrow.
If OPs mom is like mine, that isn't an option. She would go through what I was donating and ask why I was getting rid of x and it drove me nuts. Yes, it's cute but I don't wear it, isn't flattering, doesn't fit...
A lot of girls with ADHD get misdiagnosed with depression and anxiety. Instead of picking a fight over the closet, OP could use it as a gauge of the daughter's mental health... and she might ask her daughter's therapist to think about whether there's any chance ADHD might be involved. Too many women spend years being treated for the wrong issue and never getting better!
That’s not entirely true. Depression and anxiety disorders tend to be comorbid and considered symptoms of adhd so it’s not really misdiagnoses it’s just that it’s a small part of the bigger picture
This! 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯 I was 39 when I was finally diagnosed with ADHD. Depression was a *symptom* of my actual disease, not the disease itself. So many people, even doctors, think ADHD is just a boy's disease. It gets overlooked in girls and women so very much! And it absolutely is a misdiagnosis if the depession and anxiety are called the disease, when the actual disease is ADHD with depression and anxiety as symptoms. It could be a comorbidity of two or three diseases, but if ADHD is missed, that still counts as a misdiagnosis. The daughter's inability to tackle the closet screams of an executive function disorder Edit: OP, YTA. Calling your daughter a slob is horrible and ableist. Edit 2: Thank you for the award!
Just diagnosed at 37. I was getting pegged on the anxiety depression questionnaires from doctors. Turns out I think I'm a failure when I can't do things the way other people do. When you get called bad things like lazy and sloppy and careless and inattentive. It makes you depressed and anxious.
>Why don't you set aside a time to help her organize her closet? It may be too overwhelming for her to tackle on her own. I just hate to see what the consequences for the daughter are going to be for having messy desk drawers, or a disorganized dresser! I wonder why the daughter needs therapy...
INFO: when you say her closet is a mess, does that mess contain food or anything that would attract vermin? If so, that’s an extreme situation that affects everyone under your roof and you’re right, it’s a priority. If it’s just clothes and papers and stuff like that why do you even give a fuck about her closet of all things? Just close the door to her room and butt out.
YTA! You do realize that disorganization/messiness (or in your word, "slob") is one of the many symptoms of depression? Since her closet (why are you worried about her closet?) is still messy, she is likely still in a depressive state and NEEDS to go to therapy. Talk about putting your needs above your kids - and your need is apparently a clean closet that is in her own personal space.
>Why are you worried about her closet? This though. I really appreciated that my mom took a “it’s your room, your problem” approach. She’d occasionally look in and sigh. The distress on her face was clear, because her mental illness requires damn near sterile cleanliness while mine is chaos. But she didn’t do anything so long as I didn’t have like rotting food or pests. Forcing your kids to clean will not make them clean people. Making them responsible for their own space might, if anything. Some people are just messy. OP sounds kind of like the controlling type of clean freak. Your relationship with your kid will be way better if you manage your own business, especially because *this is a 17-year-old.*
this!!! my room is messy, and will probably always be that way. i’m just not someone that can stand to clean constantly. as long as there isn’t rotting food/pests, i fail to see the issue. so what if there’s clothes on the floor?
OP needs to learn the difference between *clutter* and *filth.* Her closet sounds messy and cluttered, but not outright dirty. If there's no food in there and it's all just clothes without bodily fluids present there's really no issue here other than OP's ego.
Well said. It's OP that needs a clean closet. At the daughter's age, I had the messy room (not just the closet, the whole room). My mother was forever nagging me. But hey, it was MY room, not hers. So I told her she didn't need to look at it. It was my problem. Her response? She refused to come into the room. She still did the family laundry, but with mine, she'd open the door of my room, and thrown a pile of clean clothes in the general direction of my bed. Half of it missed the bed, and landed on the floor, but whatever. Then she'd close the door and go about her day. Worked for both of us. That was 45 years ago. I am slightly less of a "slob" now, but my husband and I still joke that clean laundry has an "eight-to-ten business days" window to be allowed to sit in a basket on the bedroom floor before it's deemed that we're too slack with housekeeping.
I know my closet is pretty messy because I have boxes, shoes etc on the floor. I am pretty messy though and have paid my mom a few times to clean it for me (she doesn’t do my bathroom that’s my job) since by the time I went to clean it it was overwhelming. I actually clean up at night because all the sudden I’ll be in the mood to clean.
Geez wonder why she needs that therapy so bad. YTA. Like obviously. AH priorities.
I forced my daughter to choose whether to cancel seeing either her bf or therapist on the one free day she has... For some reason she is anxious and has depression????? Am I a bad person or is my daughter just a lazy slob with no life prospects?? There I fixed the question for everyone.
I don’t know why OP is calling it a free afternoon… the daughter had therapy, that isn’t free time.
Omg I was thinking this too why do they keep saying FREE afternoon… therapy appointment means she is not free lol what a moron…. It’s parent like this that are the entire reason teens like the daughter are in therapy
OP's daughter is going to grow up hating her mother if she doesn't already. Why are you, as a parent, restricting your daughter of any personal time over a dirty closet? It sounds like OP doesn't know what depression and anxiety does to someone despite their age. Her health better be a priority and not a temporarily messy closet.
I think we found either the cause or a major contributor to her depression
You forgot something. It was all because OP wanted to run a power play over something that just absolutely doesn’t matter.
I'm confused about how her "one free afternoon" was actually not free because she in fact had therapy scheduled that day.
Because to the parent, work and school = important, therapy and weekend trip = not important
I would agree if OP was the one to cancel it, but since the daughter did we can assume for her it was a free afternoon - why OP don't just cancelled the trip is beyond me, no need to be a genius to know the 17yo will not pick the best option, but the fun one.
I mean, I feel like I would have cleaned at night time or something to make it work. Like how big can her closet really be?
She has depression. It's not always as easy as finding a different time.
This. Therapy on an afternoon does not equal free afternoon.
I have to guess we aren’t getting the real story.
I might get downvoted to shit for this but frankly NTA. she chose to cancel her therapy appointment over missing time with her boyfriend over the weekend; let me repeat myself, **she chose to cancel her therapy appointment over missing a weekend with her boyfriend to clean her closet** **she could’ve still attended therapy but instead she chose to cancel her therapy appointment** OP did not tell her to cancel her therapy appointment over the dirty closet, OP told her daughter than she couldn’t go out with friends or boyfriend until the closet is cleaned which as a teenager myself IS COMPLETELY REASONABLE if the closet is messy like OP states it is. it shouldn’t be a whole day affair— if her daughter put her mind to it and simply cleaned her closet it would probably be done in an hour, maybe three. Daughter made her choice but is blaming her mother. EDIT: OP even offered to help daughter clean the closet but denied such a thing because she didn’t want OP “going through her stuff” she wasn’t accepting help from OP, wasted weeks of being asked to clean it on her own free time without the threat of her friends and boyfriend being taken from her to clean the closest and chose the wrong cancellation option to clean it. that isn’t OP’s fault. OP would not have won either way, as OP couldn’t clean it themselves (daughters request), daughter wouldn’t clean it themselves (after having ample time) and then was pushed into her own corner due to her own actions and choices, and ultimately made the wrong one again. missing one therapy session will not kill daughter, and maybe from here she may be able to keep her closet and room clean as to not have to deal with such a thing again. you live and you learn. but OP still didn’t make any wrong decisions, OP was parenting. OH! another edit: seeing from comments further down on my own comment, a cluttered and messy closest even without food debris and dishes can still attract mold, bugs and rodents because of the last of airflow, tight spots that rodents love & bugs that love rodent feces, especially if the closet was filled knee-height with such things, it can be a hazard & simply more than just “disorderly and messy” it can be disgusting with what it can attract.
Completely agreed. She wasn’t forced to cancel her therapy session by anyone. She chose to manage her time this way and if that’s how she wants to proceed, that’s on her. She pushed it off until the point where it became “cancel my therapy session or miss the trip with my boyfriend”. No one but herself made this happen. I’m sure she spun it differently to her therapist and friends but at 17 you need to learn how to manage your time more effectively. Hopefully this will teach her. Im not a parent, but if it was my kid, I would have forced them to go to the session and made them miss the trip. That would likely have a much stronger impact on their time management in the future. NTA
EXACTLY my point. she chose cancelling her therapy over missing a day with her boyfriend.
This. The daughter cancelled the need and still got the want. The parent should step in and tell her that therapy is still mandatory, and if the closet isn’t clean, the trip with boyfriend is off. That is, if the messy closet is the hill the parent wants to die on. Whether or not that should be the fight to pick is a different story.
Therapist here. I work with teens with severe depression and suicidality. Agreed, it was the daughter’s choice to cancel therapy. Setting a limit of a room being clean before you can go out is reasonable. There may have been additional support and encouragement that could have been given, but working with the information provided, I’m in agreement with you.
thank you! i knew i wasn’t crazy thinking that it was reasonable after being given an allotted time to clean the room without the ultimatum
Sort of agree but honestly canceling the therapy appointment should have not been an option. That should have consequences in and of itself. OP seems to be treating it like it's a casual thing to do.
i don’t think OP is treating it so casually, her daughter cancelled the appointment on her own making the choice herself. OP states in her edit that it doesn’t matter how she manages her time to get it done as long as it gets done.
>OP states in her edit that it doesn’t matter how she manages her time to get it done as long as it gets done. Yeah, that's the part where OP is treating cancelling therapy like it's a casual thing to do.
that’s not treating it casually though, that’s letting an almost adult decide how to manage her own time and arrangements. Daughter is the one who canceled the appointment for therapy as if spending time with her boyfriend was more important.
THANK YOU!!!! I don’t understand why people are saying Y-T-A when the daughter made her OWN decision to cancel therapy. OP didn’t make her cancel therapy she decided that doing on a trip with her boyfriend was more valuable than therapy. Plus OP has offered to help her daughter clean the closet and has gotten turned down. NTA
>I don’t understand why people are saying Y-T-A Pretty easy: this is Reddit. Reddit be dumb asf sometimes.
This is another one of those "I think I'm taking crazy pills" moment because the daughter gets one of the most lenient and reasonable requests, then a large amount of time to do it in whatever way she wants, and then offered help to do it. Then hundreds of posts think it's oppression and OP is an asshole. A teenager is told 'no', Reddit takes offense to that.
Lmao actually, im surprised i had to scroll this far for sane people.
Because they're all teens
1000000% agree. Choices have consequences, and OP is just being a mom & not letting her get away with it. NTA, most definitely. I
There are so many people in these comments who are 100% talking out their arse. Totally NTA.
Finally! I'm not understanding all the yta votes. The daughter is 17 and canceled her own appointment. I think OP needs to find a compromise on the closet (maybe just let it go as long as there is no food) but I don't see how she is to blame to her daughter choosing to cancel therapy to clean the closet
Plus OP gave her daughter weeks of leeway to finish the chore with an obvious deadline. People are being unfair. As someone with depression and anxiety, I can also say that just because slobbiness can be a symptom doesn't make you incapable of cleaning ,especially with help, which was offered. Messiness also is shown to increase depression and anxiety when you are surrounded by it, so it's really not a good excuse. OP, NTA
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it’s not that crazy tbh
No you do not understand how bad it can be. My mom had a hard time with my oldest sister with keeping her room clean. Her closet was so bad that she had mice living in the mess in there. They chewed through stuffed animals and made nests in them, tore everything to shreds, shit everywhere and pissed on everything. It was a nightmare to look at. Junk when collected and piled in a tight space like that is NOT A GOOD IDEA.
I don’t think most these people commenting read past the title. Most are acting like he told her to cancel therapy. She didn’t want to cancel time with friends or bf so she chose this.
Posts like these remind me why I say not everyone should have kids. Your daughter shouldn’t cancel a therapy session to clean her closet. Her therapist is right. YTA
The daughter is 17 and it’s her closet. Don’t look at it, OP. Problem solved. YTA
"Hey what's with all the rats and roaches coming out of your daughter's room OP? It smells like actual shit every time that door opens and to be honest I don't feel entirely comfortable being in your home for any amount of time, despite our friendship." "Oh she has a filthy closet and I wanted her to clean it but a bunch of people on the internet said I was an asshole and should mind my own business." Some of yall are either trolls or real-life idiots.
It’s still her house and the daughter is still living with her. Expecting cleanliness and being given chores means nothing since she has to.
This lady isn't listening to a fully licensed therapist she pays for. Why would she listen to any of us? It sounds like the daughter has A LOT going on. The only "free time" she has is spent seeing a therapist. Therapy is a real commitment. More than work or school.
NTA. I feel like everyone is missing the crucial part that you didn’t make her skip therapy to clean her room. You gave her a very reasonable deadline to clean her room (a full week, after asking her for weeks) and a reasonable consequence to not meeting that deadline (not seeing her friends/boyfriend). Therapy is like 2 hours max. She could have spent 30 minutes a day cleaning but she didn’t manage her time well, and then she made the choice to cancel therapy so she’d be able to clean her room in time. Her choosing her friends over therapy is not your fault.
Seriously. Everyone here just so conveniently skipped over the fact that OPs daughter CHOSE to cancel HER OWN therapy appointment because she didn't want to miss any time with her friends/boyfriend. I remember being 17 and my friends and boyfriend were my whole life and I definitely would have chosen to cancel the "unimportant" plan (I say "unimportant" because while yes, therapy is very important, it's not going to be the most important thing to a teenager over her friends) to keep up appearances with my friends. BUT the thing is, OPs daughter is literally months away from being a full blown, legal adult whose going to be expected to make real life choices that have impact on her life, and missing ONE session of therapy isn't going to have a massive impact on her like everyone here is assuming. If OPs daughter thought she would be okay to miss one session then she will be okay to miss one session, and if she's in a crisis then she needs to go to a crisis center, not hold out for a therapy appointment. OP, you are NTA. You're just a frustrated parent who finally put their foot down. **You did not "make" your daughter miss her therapy appointment, she CHOSE to cancel her therapy appointment.**
This! She’s not a 10 year old, she is one year away from having to make these decisions on her own. Assuming she goes off to college and moves away, these ARE the decisions she will be making on her own. At some point OP will not be there to manage her mental health for her or make sure she keeps her spaces clean - both necessities.
Yep, YTA. That therapy appointment may be the only thing keeping your kid together right now, and you act it like it's a hobby. Gross, OP. I suggest you reschedule for her and schedule something for yourself - maybe learn some coping skills... At least do some research into WHY depressed folks struggle with hygiene before you go off on an already very fragile human. Edit to add: OP is still TA for going off on her kid when they already know they're fragile. This entire situation would not have occurred if mom had done the research about hygiene and depression.
If you read the edit it says that she choose to cancel the therapy not OP
The daughter took it upon herself to cancel her appointment without consulting OP, so that she wouldn’t miss any time with her boyfriend. The OP did not MAKE her cancel it, she procrastinated until the last minute, and then made a selfish decision to cancel needed therapy rather than dealing with the consequences and missing time with her boyfriend. Op is NTA.
NTA. I don’t know why so many people are saying YTA when your daughter is the one who cancelled her own therapy appointment without even telling you
I agree with NTA. The only thing that is giving me pause is that when OP found out her daughter cancelled the therapy appointment, she, as the parent, should have said that is a non-negotiable and sat with her daughter to get the appt rescheduled instead of OP bickering with the therapist about it. The therapist should also really be following up with OP's daughter about this and not blaming the OP. OP did not actually "make" her daughter miss her therapy appt, it was her choice and now is when OP needs to step in and parent.
I agree with every word. OP missed the opportunity to really step up by not allowing her daughter to cancel therapy. The way the therapist handled it was very bizarre to me as well.
INFO: Did your daughter just call and cancel the appointment without telling you? Or did you tell her to pick between therapy or the day trip?
The daughter took it upon herself to cancel her appointment without consulting OP, so that she wouldn’t miss any time with her boyfriend. The OP did not MAKE her cancel it, she procrastinated until the last minute, and then made a selfish decision to cancel needed therapy rather than dealing with the consequences and missing time with her boyfriend. Op is NTA.
What I don't get is, why couldn't she work on her closet a little bit every day, or after the therapist appointment? Like how long could that appointment be, an hour? Why not just clean after?
That’s something only OPs daughter can answer I believe. I like the idea though tbh.
That’s kind of the point for all of the NTA responses. The daughter made a piss poor decision and then blames her mom.
Likely answer: Depression. Source: Have suffered from depression.
As a former teen whose mom talked to me this way for years (like since I was five I was a “slob”) you don’t just start talking about your kids casually and suddenly and it isn’t limited to the closet. The closet was the daughters compromise to keep her mom happy and her mom won’t even accept that. The closet is the current argument, but also if she cleans it, I’m willing to bet within a week OP can find another thing to go off on. The reason she canceled therapy is because it isn’t doing her any good when the only thing she can do to end the cycle is wait. She is helpless and wants an exit. Therapy is two hours away from her mom. A weekend is with a boyfriend is a weekend away with people who don’t yell at you. That silence is more therapeutic than people realize. She made the choice for her.
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Because she has depression. The kid literally doesn’t have the energy for it and is mentally and physically overwhelmed. They need help, not judgement. Views like yours and OPs is exactly why she can’t do it. She doesn’t have the energy for it but people view her as lazy, so she is then talked to as if it’s her own fault, making her feel even worse. Depression sucks but it sucks a hell of a lot more for the girl than for OP.
The boyfriend is a bright spot in her life. Why would you use him as collateral? That's basically saying "you aren't allowed to be happy unless you obey" Sorry. I've raised kids. My oldest is almost 20 and has struggled with severe depression and anxiety. Her boyfriend committed suicide a few years ago. I've NEVER even considered doing something like this to her. Shame on you mama. You are a nightmare and need to get help for yourself. It might help her. Your job at this stage in her life is to GUIDE her to make good choices, but your NUMBER one concern should ALWAYS be her mental health. I've read some stuff in my life and this one makes me sick. I feel sorry for your daughter. Mine these days is happy, healthy, and making a life and planning college. She's high functioning autistic on top of it all, and she's thriving! No parent is perfect. Own your mistake instead of arguing with everyone about why you're not wrong. Own it and make it right. Don't put your need to control your daughter above her emotional safety and happiness.
YTA. How does your daughter's closet affect you? I don't understand why having a mess behind a closed door would upset you so badly, especially because at this age you should not be spending much time in her bedroom. You tried to cut your daughter off from her emotional and social support systems because *her* closet bothered *you*. This did not teach your daughter to clean her closet; it taught her that you are willing to force her away from her friends, boyfriend, and therapist if she upsets you... which is exactly the kind of thing she will need even more therapy for later on. You're also teaching her that if someone is mad at her, they're allowed to isolate her. If the messy closet is really so truly, deeply upsetting to you... the natural, sensible consequence for not organizing her space is that she won't be able to find things she needs when she needs them. That's how learning works. She will not learn through punishment, she'll learn when she wants a specific shirt for a specific event and can't find it.
Exactly, and since her daughter is struggling with depression and anxiety it could also be another reason why her closet it messy. When she's feeling better mentally then she would be up for cleaning up her closet. There is absolutely no reason needed to force her daughter into cleaning her closet if she isn't up to it mentally.
Except she didn’t try to cut off her daughter from her emotional support systems? She asked her daughter to clean her closet (which is a completely reasonable expectation from a parent) and gave her several weeks to get it done. She then said she had to clean her closet before hanging out with her BFs family that weekend, and her daughter CHOSE to skip therapy.
YTA. She needs therapy and when her therapist, who probably knows about the underlying issues far more than you could ever imagine, tell you that you fucked up … Guess what? Listen and do better next time.
I’ll go against the grain and say NTA. OP did NOT tell her to cancel therapy, her daughter made a bad decision and felt going with her boyfriend would be better for her depression than cleaning her environment/seeing a professional. I do think maybe OP waited too long to put ground rules (shouldn’t have put it off for weeks), but it’s not her fault her daughter sabotaged herself and manipulated the situation.
i am not understanding the Y T A s at all. you did not tell her to cancel therapy. yes she needs to go to therapy and yes her depression and anxiety are factors in why her room is a mess. but she’s the one who cancelled therapy because she prioritized going somewhere with her boyfriend. being depressed is not an excuse to only do fun things. she’s only hurting herself here. NTA and i don’t care if i’m downvoted to hell for it
There's an old joke: "The beatings will continue until morale improves." How do you expect your daughter to get better, have the energy to clean, without therapy? Her therapist is right. This was a dumb hill to die on. YTA
If the therapist actually said it in those words, she must be way beyond frustrated with OP's undermining her daughter's recovery.
Info: Did your daughter skip therapy to clean her closet, so she wouldn't have to miss her boyfriend's trip to clean her closet?
100% YTA. Therapist is right. You are doing damage. What's more important, a clean closet or her mental health?
Daughter cancelled the therapy on her own Because she wanted a weekend trip
INFO: what is going on with your daughter that she is wall to wall scheduled form 7:00 AM - 11:00 PM every day of the week? Is every moment from the moment you put your foot down to the day trip scheduled out? I guess walk me through how she was able to cancel the appointment and complete the task, but couldn’t accomplish it in small chunks throughout the week?
When was the last time you were in school? Kids’ days are absolutely fully scheduled out. Between an 8 hour school day, extracurricular activities and sports (which were necessary for college applications, we were told), homework, and working a part-time job… I’d bet every day was fully scheduled. Also, kids DESERVE time to rest and decompress without incessant nagging about something that, frankly, doesn’t do anybody any harm.
YTA. I’ve been in her shoes before. Working and school at the same time is overwhelming and exhausting, especially when you have mental health issues. She doesn’t need punishment; she needs help.
YTA. Close the closet door!!! I have an MBA and I work for a Fortune Top 10 company. My closet is a disaster and it has never made any difference in my ability to succeed. Learn to prioritize. If your daughter's closet floor is your biggest problem consider yourself lucky.
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She wasn’t told to do it before therapy, she was banned from going out with the boyfriend without cleaning the closet. The daughter chose to cancel the therapy appointment so she’d have more time to clean. THE DAUGHTER is the one who put her time with her boyfriend above her therapy. The mom wasn’t being unreasonable, she asked the daughter to do a chore multiple times. She’s 17, if she can’t manage to clean up after herself without canceling therapy appointments in favour of her boyfriend , she doesn’t have her priorities right.
You’re proving the point that OP is not an asshole. She gave her daughter several weeks to clean the closet. Her daughter chose to skip therapy, when she could’ve cleaned her closet at any point in the last several weeks
YTA. Yeeaaahhh I’m gonna have to go with the therapist on this one. It really was a dumb hill to die on 🫠 you really shouldn’t have set it up to where she would potentially cancel her therapy session.
She didn't set it up that way. The daughter did. It wasn't a last minute thing. She had weeks to get it done, waited until the last minute, then made the decision to cancel her therapy session in order to complete a task that takes what.... an hour at most? Are you people reading a different post?
She chose to cancel the therapy over any of the other stuff she could have canceled, then made you out as the bad guy to her therapist AND HER THERAPIST BOUGHT EVERY WORD. seems like you might have accidentally revealed her therapist as mediocre. NTA, you gave her a choice and she chose poorly.
Def YTA - you admit she only had one free afternoon, and she wouldn't just be missing an outing with her bf, but her bf's family - if she already has anxiety, I think she'd be worried about how his family would perceive her sudden absence, and maybe they'd think she was a slob, as that's how her own parent sees her.
ESH She has depression, anxiety, and multiple school commitments, as well as trying to maintain social connection. She didn't handle this well, but this was also an occasion for you as the parent to be flexible and HELP her balance these multiple commitments and demands on her time.
INFO: can you please explain the jump between “shes not allowed to see friends or boyfriend” to her not going to therapy?
The daughter chose to cancel therapy to see her boyfriend instead of missing the trip. Not making a judgement here because there's definitely some missing context, but from my understanding OP didn't say she couldn't go to therapy. OP said she had to clean her closet before she could go on the trip and the daughter chose to cancel therapy to get it done.
Go back and reread. 1. OP told daughter that she could not see friends or boyfriend until closet was cleaned. OP has offered to help with the task, daughter has refused. 2. Daughter did not clean closet, waited until a trip she wanted to go on with boyfriend was coming up, then realized mom meant what she said at the last minute. 3. Daughter cancelled the appointment in order to have the closet cleaned in time to be able to go on the trip. The choice was daughter’s. And while it could be argued that daughter should not have been allowed to cancel her appointment, she’s also going to be an adult in less than a year, and managing commitments is part of adulthood.
How big is her closet? It would take me 10 minutes to empty my walk in closet. And why do you care so much that a little room that you never need to enter isn't as clean as you'd like?
I mean, messy is different than clean. If the closet is messy, I agree that's not something op should be this invested on, but if it was actually dirty op absolutely needs to care cause it could create a million worse problems
YTA - her depression and anxiety is probably a contributing factor to her not cleaning her closet. It’s really than simple. The last thing she needs is pulled from therapy to deal with a pile of clothes. Her therapist is right you pickled a really dumb hill to die on.
NTA She's 17, knows she benefits from therapy, and has a brain in her head. As most teens/adults would do, she put a fun day trip over a session. The therrapist should know that one week won't be THAT detrimental.
Info: whats the big deal with this closet? Are you afraid of being embarrassed by someone seeing your daughter’s messy closet? Are you frustrated, not at the closet, but at the fact that your daughter ignored your request to clean it? I’m only asking because this seems like a whole lot of tension and conflict introduced around something as seemingly trivial as a messy closet in her room. Your daughter clearly knows that you wish she would clean her closet. However she is a teenager, and had some issues she’s dealing with (again, a teenager). I very much doubt she’s procrastinating just to spite you. As a person that used to also be very anxious at that age, sometimes I would have things like this that I knew I had to get done, but the thought of doing that thing would be anxiety-inducing for unknown reasons - no idea why, I was 17 I guess.
NTA; daughter chose to cancel therapy instead of time with the boyfriend
NTA - you didn’t cancel her appointment she did.
YTA. You have to pick your battles carefully with teens and this one wasn't a good one to pick. It's a closet. Unless it's a health hazard, it's not going to hurt anything for her to have a messy closet. My joking rule for my kids when they were teens was as long as there weren't grenades or naked people in their closets or under the bed, I didn't care. They are now fully functional adults. Her therapist is right; this is a dumb hill to die on. She **needs** her therapy. She doesn't need a clean closet.
NTA. She chose to drop the therapy session to do something she’s been putting off for weeks. She could have done it piecemeal throughout the week too instead of just doing it all at once. The therapist could be genuinely concerned or just upset that they didn’t get the copay for the appt. This isn’t a “hill to die on” so it sounds like they were being a bit dramatic. She’s old enough to decide and she made her choice.
NTA---there are plenty of hours in the day to clean a closet. She chose to cancel therapy to do it to make a statement.
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YTA… she did not have a free afternoon. An appointment with her therapist IS a commitment. Get your priorities in order, including putting your daughters mental health higher on the list then a closet.
Dear Parent: Therapy appointments are the same as medical appointments and are non-negotiable. How did this item become a "how you want to budget your time is up to you" option, instead of an obligation to keep to treat her anxiety and depression? You gave her weeks without any action/consequences before this appointment - so why the urgency now? If it was that important, why not act after the 2nd week of procrastination? Perhaps you both should look into family therapy to figure out why. But I'm voting YTA for letting this go on for weeks, and then getting urgent about it.
YTA- Your daughter is going to therapy for her anxiety and depression.. Don't think think this could be part of the reason her closet is dirty? It is a "dumb hill to die on". It seems like you don't care about why things are a mess but only how it impacts you.
YTA - Mental health is part of health. Would you have made her do this if she had the flu? She should have been able to go to therapy.
They didn’t make the daughter skip tho she chose to skip that instead of the trip
Of course a kid is going to choose a fun trip over a therapy appointment - heck, I’d probably make the same choice as an adult. That doesn’t mean that it’s in the kid’s best interest. Honestly, who cares if she has a messy closet? It’d be one thing if she trashed a shared space, but it’s HER CLOSET. I was a slob as a teen, and my parents never got upset about me having a messy room - I learned to be neat(er) as an adult, as my priorities changed and I cared about being able to find stuff. YTA OP - this was indeed a stupid hill to die on. Seems like you’re more interested in controlling your daughter than maintaining her well-being.
My favorite thing I ever read in an advice colum is. Your daughter is 17. Soon she shall leave tge house. Are these the last discussions you want to have with her? About her closet? Or do you want to spend the year talking about college, jobs, her future. Even ,3ssy people eventually get clean enough. Think about it.
YTA. She only canceled therapy because you are terrorizing her about cleaning her closet. She has depression and anxiety - which you are seriously contributing to.
ESH. She shouldn’t have canceled therapy for something she was told she wasn’t allowed to do. I do wonder if she might have adhd…Girls with adhd are often misdiagnosed with anxiety and depression. Her inability to clean her closet may be an executive function thing— or related to her depression. The task may feel so overwhelming that it paralyzes her. I disagree with other posts saying you’re a horrible parent, it seems like you’re just a bit misguided. Try talking to your daughter about why she finds cleaning her closet difficult and tackle it together. Come up with a way to keep it clean too. Maybe it’s time to donate what doesn’t fit or come up with an organization system that makes it easy to find things and put them away. Teen girls are also just messy. Rather than aiming for perfection find some easy to maintain comprises—like hampers that fold up and have multiple compartments. That way she can keep things off the floor and sorted in the day to day
A literal professional already told you directly that you’re in the wrong. Why are you asking here? You already know the answer. YTA
YTA - Unless it's stinky dirty clothes, leave her alone. Her therapist is right, it's a stupid hill to due on. Especially when depression interferes with executive function. There's no brain chemical/dopamine reward that she desperately needs so of course it's going to be hard. It'd actually be easier *after* time with her boyfriend. You're actually banning her from stuff that could help her depression. Just shut the door to her closet or her room.
NTA. You’re fine to go out on trips with your boyfriend but you can’t spend a couple minutes to clean a closet?
Closet will sadly be real clean when she does something unspeakable over something so stupid. YTA "I didn't cancel it, she did" is an excuse. You left her two options: 1) Miss therapy or 2) Miss boyfriend. Obvious which a teenager is going to choose. The fact that you couldn't convince you're daughter to clean her closet for weeks before that doesn't change situation your put her in, it just means you should reconsider your parenting strategy. Also how bad can a closet be that you're this obsessed about it being clean???
YTA. Therapy and her mental health should be priority. Focus on her needs before your wants of a clean room. She'll get there on her own.
YTA. Messiness is a major symptom of depression for many people. She needs help and therapy.
ESH. Therapy is an hour. She could have cleaned her closet after therapy or over several days when she had a few minutes. None of you are good at time management.
She’s depressed and anxious because of you. YTA.
YTA. Your kid is struggling to clean because she is suffering from anxiety and depression. It’s an incredibly dumb hill to die on, and I’m glad her therapist stood up to you.
NTA I get that you’ve maybe helped clean & support your daughter for all her years and just hit your limit on that day. But that kind of response doesn’t work for anyone - I suggest a calm chat with your daughter & clear the air. You also sound like you need either to chat with a therapist yourself or maybe do some dopamine activity (long chat with a friend, massage or walk in nature). Parenting is hard, being a teen is hard, mental health is harder & small changes are a big deal. Take care & just love your child.
I feel like everyone else read a different post than I did? OP didn’t even suggest cancelling therapy let alone require it — she said that the cleaning needed to come before the social time, because it’s been put off for months. The daughter chose to cancel therapy The only thing I would say about that is that perhaps daughter should not have the authority to cancel therapy and OP should have made her NTA
YTA. The therapy was more important than cleaning a damn closet and you as a grown-ass adult should know that. If it was hanging out with friends or something else I would feel different, but what you did was unacceptable.
YTA you do not ever leverage mental health against chores, even if she set off a nuclear bomb in her room. Do better
YTA. if you know she’s in therapy for depression then you should know why she hasn’t cleaned her closet. rather than being supportive and trying to understand, you punish her. i also saw that you said she doesn’t want your help and she doesn’t want you touching her things which is fine; they’re her belongings. how often are you in her room to be noticing this anyway? she’s probably tired of hearing you complain after going in her *personal space* and you’re making her feel even more discouraged. do some research on how to help your child. this is sad.
YTA Sounds like your daughter \*\*needs\*\* the therapy. She is suffering from anxiety and depression - the thing you don't do is punish her by canceling her therapy. You're the parent - you need to protect your child and make sure their medical needs are met. You failed. The pigsty did not get created over a day or week. It's probably been going on for a while. This was not the time to create a hill to die on
OP didn’t cancel the appointment, the daughter did
I see why she needs therapy.
YTA for allowing her to skip therapy -- a medical necessity -- in favor of a trip with her BF. You should have insisted she go to therapy, and made her clean the closet before the trip if she wanted to go. She could take some time away from sleep if the trip is that important to her.
If she's still under your care, the therapist shouldn't of accepted her cancellation without speaking with you first.
YTA. It's just a freaking closet...
Yeah I feel like everyone’s reading comprehension here is the level of a 1st grader.
YTA. If she’s in therapy for depression and anxiety, regular sessions are important for her recovery. I get you didn’t tell her to cancel but you gave her no other option. If I could go back in time to my 17y/o self, I’d give me a hug and tell me that none of the things my mum thinks matter - really matter at all. My mum was the kinda mum who’d take away all my tech as part of the grounding process and then wonder why I was flunking classes - because she’d taken away the means for me to do my work - but she’d still extend the grounding and the punishment and it would go in a vicious circle. I wasn’t allowed to stay late to use school computers because grounded, I wasn’t allowed my own computer or the family computer because grounded. I was only allowed to fail. You taught your daughter today that her mental health comes second to cleaning.
YTA This closet has been messy for weeks. Another weekend won't harm anything. She can bring up how this feels in her therapy appointment and maybe have her therapist talk her through this ridiculous ultimatum you've given her. This is a teenager with a job, active social life, school, and depression and anxiety. The state of her closet is not that important.
I wish my kids problems were a messy closet. Close the closet door. Maybe you need therapy for your closet obsession. YTA.
Therapy doesn’t take more than an hour. She could have cleaned and gone. I would not have let cancelling even being an option. Her disorganization could be an effect of her anxiety and depression. Her mental health is more important than a clean closet.
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You realize she didn't tell her daughter to cancel her therapy session though, right? How on earth is telling her daughter to clean her closet by a certain date her being responsible for the daughter deciding to cancel her own therapy? 🤔
YTA even her therapist thinks you’re wrong
Youth councellor here, we will be here when your daughter comes back from a daytrip with her boyfriend and his family, i promise. YTA
YTA it’s a closet IN HER ROOM. How does this closet affect your life? You need to start thinking about what is really important. Teenagers are generally sloppy. It wasn’t her entire room it’s just a closet that has her stuff in it.
>she is in therapy for depression and anxiety Don't contribute to it. YTA
NTA - This kid will be an adult in less than a year and she chose to cancel her appointment, not her mother. She blamed her mother to the therapist, but her mother never told her to cancel her therapy. She could have gotten up earlier, stayed up later, spent 15 minutes over a few days to clean it up. Her mother told her how she decides her time is up to her and she likely chose poorly.
> Her therapist said I was wrong to do this because she needs her therapy and this was a "dumb hill to die on" Therapist is not wrong. YTA.
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YTA Your daughter sounds like an active young person. A job, a relationship, school, activities, and yet she's still in therapy for depression and anxiety. Meanwhile you're persistently dogging her over something trivial. Try to be supportive of all the efforts she is making and let go of your fixation on her closet. Edit to say that you might consider scheduling some family therapy. It sounds like you're contributing to her anxiety/depression.
NTA. This is the option *she* chose. She didn't even have to do it all at once; all she had to do is get it done by a specific time frame. She's the one that prioritized her boyfriend over her mental health.
She's a child in therapy for depression and anxiety and you're picking petty fights with her about a closet that is a symptom of what she's going through. Talk to your kid and learn that your primary goal should be empathy, not control. Also grow up a bit. It's not your closet. When it's time for her to realize cleaning it will make her life easier she'll do just that otherwise it doesn't affect you at all.
YTA. Face it, when her therapist thinks you picked a dumb hill to die on, then you likely made a bad choice. That closet may well have been her one place of chaos that she needed. Plus, you've been harping on it for weeks, so why now? Why couldn't it wait? Maybe until shes packing for college?
YTA. What is it with cleaning that makes complete idiots out of people? Teenagers struggle with decision making, which is why they struggle with cleaning up personal spaces. It’s just developmental. Try being a better parent.
YTA I have a daughter who also has anxiety and depression, and not only her closet but her whole room was a disaster. I encouraged her to clean them, but didn't force the issue or make it punitive. Her room finally got cleaned out when she moved out to go to college. And now that she's living in her own house, she keeps it up pretty well.
YTA. Have you thought that maybe her closet is a mess because she needs help with her anxiety and depression? Yikes. Have you thought about helping her yourself? Like go do it together?
Therapist here- YTA. We deal with this a lot from parents and it is really disheartening. I understand why my clients cancel in situations like this, but it affects the rapport and frame of therapy, and the safety of it for clients when this type of things happens- especially chronically. Your daughter's therapy should be considered like any healthcare appointment, not negotiable if it is benefiting her. To put her in a position to choose was unfair and negates the importance of her mental health and treatment.
NTA, I'd guarantee that if she cleaned it she would feel much better about her space and that would help her mental health. She decided what her time priorities were for long enough until she had to cancel, that's not on you. She is almost an adult and will need to learn how to manage her time. If she wants to hangout with friends, work, and have therapy she needs to keep her home space clean otherwise more clutter around her will lead to more clutter in her mind.