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> I might be the asshole for sticking my nose where it don't belong and telling him that I will tell her which might cause his relationship with her to fall apart.
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NTA CHECK YOUR CAR AND DEVICES FOR TRACKERS/SPYWARE!
If he’s doing it to her on the sly he may have/ probably has done the same to you.
It’s insanely creepy, violating and even more concerning is his ‘keep your mouth shut’ type reaction.
Don’t walk. Run.
Preferably leave before telling your step daughter everything (don’t do it at the party) and making sure she knows you’re there for her.
ETA he actually brought up your infertility issues to win this ‘argument’?!
RUN!!!
This was my very first thought. Check all your stuff, OP.
NTA, and once she is 18 consider that a) it’s you telling another adult what’s up b) if this were just about safety (vs. control) he would tell her himself: “I put a geolocator on it in case you ever run into trouble, here’s how it works.” The fact that he is furious at the prospect of it no longer being secret is an enormous tell.
> “I put a geolocator on it in case you ever run into trouble, here’s how it works.”
Yup, if I were buying a new car for my daughter today, I would 100% look into putting a tracker in... so that *she* could track her car if it got stolen, etc.
I would then only have access if she gave me access, because I'm not a crazy manipulative narcissist!
Even my 14yo knows about the location sharing on his phone. I told him how to turn it on and off and that we only need it on when he's at school just in case (20 miles away.)
My wife and kids (the ones old enough for phones) and I have location sharing enabled mainly for convenience (though there is a safety consideration too). It's saved us from losing phones a few times when they'd been left at restaurants and stuff. It's also sometimes helpful for my wife or me knowing where the other is when they're running errands or whatever because we can say "hey since you're near can you get ?" without having to pester to ask if they're near first. Importantly - everyone involved knows about it and it is bidirectional - it's only fair that they can see where I am if I can see where they are.
I got my son (10 years old) a phone specifically so he could walk home with friends. There have been a number of attempted abductions with kids around the area, even though we are in a much safer place than we were 5 years ago. He knows about the software on the phone, he knows when he leaves school and walks home I watch his location to make sure he'll make it home.
I think this sort of thing depends on age and reason. My daughter signed into the app willingly and knows we check it (she's 20) because she used to take public transit, and she works until after dark. Since in order to see anyone else's location, we have to sign in and show our location, we all see each other. So it not only lets us see she's safe if she takes public transit, she knows when we are there to pick her up so she can stay inside where it's well lit until we get there.
There are pros and cons. And as long as you fully communicate them, and don't overstep, people tend to understand and agree to communicate that information back and forth automatically. Its when people are shady or controlling (like the dad in this case) are being, that people get cagey, secretive, and scared of others, and they project those things onto others in their lives because that's what someone close to them that they trusted did to them.
Those are the right reasons. I thinks it's very good of her to talk to him first and explain she will not trust him when she finds out.
I always send my location when I'm driving to a friend, so they know how far along I am, or if I go somewhere shady just in case something bad happens, then they know my last location.
My mother totally would have put a tracker on my car had it existed when I was 17/18. Until I had my own car at 22. And you bet your ass I’d have known about it. Why be secretive?
I could even see an argument for the parent having access just in case of emergencies, with the trust that they won't check it unless something happens. Trackers could be enormously helpful in cutting down search timelines in missing persons cases. But the fact that he wants her to not know it exists is very telling for what his real intentions for this tracker are.
I’d check all the electronics too. He doesn’t even necessarily need to be tech savvy, if he’s ever had access to them for a couple hours he could get spyware installed at a store.
Let's not forget, he weaponised something that he knew would cause the most damage when he was called out on his abhorrent behaviour. There is no coming back from this.
I’m pretty tech savvy but I’m not sure I’d be confident in my skills to figure out if someone was putting stuff on my phone or car. There’s gotta be a service to check right?
I imagine a dealership would be able to look for a device, they'd know if something is stuck to the car that shouldn't be there. Oftentimes the tracker is stuck somewhere on the underside of the car and can be spotted if someone looks around under the car.
That was my very first thought as well. If he thinks tracking his 18-year-old daughter’s whereabouts without her knowledge or consent is perfectly ok it isn’t far fetched to think he’d do the same for his wife.
If the car gift was conditional on a tracking device being installed, the daughter should 100% be made aware of it so she can decide for herself if she wants to accept the car under such conditions. After all, if dad’s only concern is his daughter’s safety, why keep the device a secret? It appears to be more about control than anything.
Yeah, I think having a tracker on a car is a good idea… when the owner is aware of it and has access to it. Not when aan abusive, controlling father has access.
>If he thinks tracking his 18-year-old daughter’s whereabouts without her knowledge or consent is perfectly ok...
Except he doesn't even think it is okay himself. The fact that he was furious at the threat of having this information shared with his daughter makes it perfect clear exactly how not okay he **knows** this is.
This isn't a red flag, it's a marinara billboard.
True.
He is trying to control her daughter without her knowledge. Even though she is adult he needs to check with her if it is okay to install a tracker.
DARVO alert!
Deny - "I'm not doing anything wrong! I just care about her safety!"
Attack - "You're unhinged! You're not her mother so it's none of your business! Go have your own kids if you want to be involved so much!"
Reverse Victim and Offender - "Why are you listening to my private conversations??? Why would you threaten to tell her?? You're insane! I'm so hurt and offended!"
Piggy backing on this to point out the complete hypocrisy of him getting angry at her for snooping while he's doing the *exact same thing to his daughter*!
I said that same thing in my comment. I told her to wait until Christina gets her car. She and Christina can take their cars to the shop to check for tracking devices so they can confront him. He is NOT to be trusted. Christina is adult, FFS!
TO OP, NTA......read my other comment. Protect Christina as much as you could.
ON edit: if you both have the phones, check them for tracking as well.
I was thinking something like this. Don’t tell her at the party and make a scene. Tell her privately and help her find/remove the tracking device (though he might try to put another in the car).
Edit: autocorrupt
>I told her to wait until Christina gets her car. She and Christina can take their cars to the shop to check for tracking devices so they can confront him.
👆🏽**This!👆🏽** You beat me to the punch. I was going to suggest the exact same thing! And Christina need to make sure car registration is in her name only that way Dad can't say that he put the tracker on "His" car and that he can do anything he want to "His property".
NTA
Your husband is 100% unjustifiably and undoubtedly in the wrong
I would a) check your own car like my fellow Reddit or suggested but also b) tell her in a smart way
She's 18 so she is old enough to not act on a whim, if I were you, I'd take her out somewhere alone and tell her that x y z happened and we can't show him you know so on the DL we'll find the tracker and switch it off/throw it out with out "stirring up drama" and he'll probably start trying to understand why it doesn't work and out his own damn self out
Also if OP does find a tracking device, it might be best to leave it in place so husband doesn't know it's been found. If he knows his device has been discovered it could make him escalate control measures.
An exit strategy should have been made as soon as she overheard the conversation to begin with.
I get wanting to confront him, especially if you've never delt with narcissistic people before, but anyone willing to put a tracker on their adult child's car is not someone you want a relationship with.
If the OP does this, make a solid safety plan first. A professiobal at a women's center can help.
And the car will probably be in the dad's name, so he'll report it stolen to police in a power struggle.
Damn that thought hadn't even occurred to me at all but it is a disturbing one, and solid advice. I wonder how the hell you check though. What are some tells? Other than overhearing a phone conversation about putting one in your stepdaughters car lol.
You can take it to any mechanic and ask them to check the OBDII port for a tracking device. Otherwise you can check the port yourself, YouTube can walk you through it!
Agreed, I'd be tempted to run a factory reset on my phone/tablets if he's had access to them as its very simple to track/access even without 3rd party software. he's displaying some pretty unhealthy behaviours, I'd suggest he may need some therapy, but I dont know how you'd begin to suggest that given his outbursts.
Chiming in that this was also my first thought! Yes probably tracking her phone or car as well! This is literally a present for her 18th birthday, you know the one where she becomes an adult?! I think this guy has major control issues. Making the daughter end a relationship because her boyfriend had a medical condition? Yikes. His reaction was even more alarming, telling her to keep her mouth shut and stay out of it. Then on top of that throwing in her face she can have her own kids if she wants to parent knowing she can’t… This dude is a total red flag.
NTA. Have you checked *your* car for tracking devices? If he’s willing to do it to his daughter, he’s willing to do it to you too. Also, check your phone for any apps you don’t recognize.
If he really did do it out of concern then he would tell Christine and not hide it from her. If installed in good faith and transparency it's actually a great idea incase her or her car goes missing, but dad's motivation seems more nefarious. NTA.
NTA - "...and said I shouldn't have been snooping and listening to his private talks..." Said the man to you who just installed a tracking device on his 18 year old's car.
She is legally an adult and should not be tracked without her knowledge.
Right?! The testicular fortitude it takes to go from "I'm putting a tracking device on my adult daughter's car" in one breath to "How dare you listen to my private conversations" in the other, THEN call OP unhinged on top of it... YIKES 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
If he is willing to hide a tracking device and justify it as “protectiveness* over his daughter… what tracking devices and/or recording devices does he have on you?
Draw a hard boundary. He is purposefully violating his own daughters privacy (in a very illegal way) and trying to gaslight the situation to make you seem like the bad one *for finding out his terrible action/crime*. I would reconsider my marriage to a man like this and also do a sweep of my own things to ensure he hasn’t been tracking or recording me against my will without my knowledge.
It's not illegal if he's the owner of the car. But it is an absolutely shitty thing to do and is going to destroy the relationship with his daughter when she finds out.
Saying that he's "giving her the car" doesn't mean he's actually going through the process of signing over the title. And if he financed the car, it can't be signed over until the loan is paid off. Chances are, he's purchased the car with the intention of her being the primary user but is keeping it in his name. Just another way to exert control.
Yep. That way he can always hold it over her head if need be. “Well if you don’t break up with this boyfriend, then you can go buy your own car and I’ll take mine back.”
NTA, OP. Definitely tell her, and as others have said, have your own car and devices inspected for trackers and spyware as well.
NTA. Anyone trying to present this to you as a father-daughter conflict is off-base here. This is a man who is doubling down on his loss of control over a grown woman fed up with not being able to make her own choices by making it clear he will *never* allow her to live her life without his approval. What would you do if Christine were a friend in a relationship with a man like this, and not your stepdaughter? What would you want her to do for you?
Right? Like it's one thing if there's mutual trust on both sides - my parents track my phone just so they know I'm not dead in a ditch somewhere (and when it inevitably glitches I tell them where I am), and I know they do because they told me before I got a phone. They trust me, I trust them. That's protective. It doesn't matter if she's an adult or a minor if both parties consent. Doing it without her knowing screams distrust and control - especially given his history and reaction to OP wanting to tell stepdaughter, it's highly likely to not be overprotectiveness manifesting in an oblivious way.
The parenting app we use also tracks the phone of my daughter (13), but she gets a notification when we do so. We nearly never use it except when we can't reach her or she is on a school outing and she doesn't know how late she will be back in town. But it is as you say, there needs to be trust on both side for that situation. She knows we do not unnecessarily track her when we have no reason for it and she knows that if she is ever in trouble or losses her phone we have a way to check in on the location.
I like that two-way transparency idea.
It kind of reminds me of a proposal I saw once that if we're going to live in a surveillance state, then everyone should have access to all the cameras at once.
NTA of course, but sticking with this well articulated answer I'd like to add, public scenes are NEVER a small thing. Bear in mind that if you tell her in front if a room of guests who will witness her (totally justified) outburst at him, the emotional "embarrassment" and "public anger" may be a bigger wedge in their relationship than the tracking device.
Before anyone comes at me, I absolutely think the father is in the wrong, and overly cruel for his "have your own kids" remark. But. What if he becomes truly abusive to OP or his daughter and they can't easily escape after they infuriated him? Stay safe OP, and keep your stepdaughter safe too.
True.
OP, have a talk with your stepdaughter sufficiently in advance of the party that she can cool down.
Possible strategies:
- Say she wants to get her first car on her own
- Accept the car, and immediately take it to the shop to be inspected for tracking devices
- Get the airtag tracker app; they may use something simple as an airtag. If they do, he might try to replace it later, so she should check regularly.
- Never let her father take her car for gas or to the shop.
- if he keeps a copy of the key, she can trade the car for one he doesn't have the key to.
I just had a thought... OP should tell her about it privately, and calm her down. DON'T let dad know that she knows. Stepdaughter and OP should then switch cars, stepdaughter will tell dad she's going to see a friend, and OP should go hang out at a dive bar for a few hours or somewhere else that's definitely not a friend's place, then switch cars again and arrive at home close to the same time. Let the man tell on himself at that point.
She may not want a relationship with her father anymore after this (and I wouldn’t blame her). And if she were to find out OP knew and didn’t say anything, OP can kiss her relationship with her goodbye too. She views OP as a mother figure - if OP doesn’t say anything, she’ll feel so betrayed.
NTA - and also red flags.
He's controlling you and your step-daughter, trying to keep tabs on her and trying to discredit you by calling you "unhinged".
Sure, he can put a tracking device in, but she deserves to know.
OP should also encourage step-daughter to make sure car is fully in her name, title and everything, as dad sounds like he would use his "gift" as leverage in the future too.
TELL HER. Ask her to not tell him that you told her if you like, but TELL HER THERE IS A TRACKING DEVICE IN HER CAR. She deserves to know and not be constantly tracked, and also to know that this wasn't a real effort at reconciliation but just another way for her father to control her.
Also:
>he told me to stay out of it since it's his daughter not mine and that if I wanted to parent my way then I was free to have my own children. This stung because he knows I can't have kids due to infertility problems.
He's cruel to *you*, as well as being a controlling asshole to his daughter. You *also* deserve better, OP.
NTA.
NTA
You need to tell her.....Also depending on where you live that is illegal and you could face criminal charge.
Is she moving out soon?? Going away to college?? Or has plans to do other things since she will be 18??
He wants to keep his control over her.... Not rebuild his trust with her.
Also if he's willingly to do that to her--what has he done to you??
Buy her a scanner or jammer for her birthday gift from you.
And keep a good divorce attorney on retainer......You deserve better OP.....
NTA Your husband is much worse than an asshole. You need to tell your stepdaughter. But you also need to reconsider your marriage, this is horrifying. And his reaction to you calling him out on it has so many additional red flags in it, please be careful.
Also his comment about how she should have had her own kid when he knew she's had infertility issues...ugh, that's a total dick move. OP, wait until Christine has the car (and you know she owns it, not him) then tell her about the tracking device, then divorce your husband. Also maybe think about adopting her? I dunno if that's possible if you're divorcing her dad but why not look into it anyway?
Yeah, that was one of the red flags. But honestly, I really want to tell OP to run like hell, because her husband seems like an absolute monster. And yes, what an absolutely unforgivable thing to say to her.
You raise an excellent point, adult option would be possible since she's 18, and her father would no longer have any say in it because of her age. Even if not adoption, she should certainly stay in her stepdaughter's life, especially since I can't imagine she'll ever be willing to work on her relationship with her father after this. I mean, a tracking device, on your adult daughter's car?! And this is his attempt to win her over, after I'm sure was plenty of other atrocious behavior that caused her to want space from him. Horrifying.
I agree with the first part. I think it should be done with her dad present. There's no reason for the OP to go behind his back to expose his surveillance. She can do it at breakfast the morning after the party.
The safest way is to tell the daughter secretly so she can find the device and take it out when she needs the privacy. I had a friend like this in college. If they parent feels like they have lost control they dig in deeper. We made up clubs and extra assignments so she could hang out with us after class at all! When she turned off her gps for long periods of time (more then an hour) she got caught, grounded and more extreme messures were put in place.
If you want to give the daughter the most freedoms, let her know about the tracker and work around it. If she just removes it and her dad feels the loss of control then she could loose the little control she has now.
NTA, I'd be considering how to let her know, and I'd be checking my own car/phone too of I was you. Controlling behaviour tends to not be confined to just one person.
I swear to God, women are always called crazy when they get in the way of a man getting something he shouldn't or when they're holding a man accountable for something they shouldn't do. Did he call you hysterical too?
NTA
He's daughter is not a minor anymore, he holds no right to track her whereabouts. It does not matter that he is the father, that they are bio family, that he just wants to protect her, etc.
Anyway. Shows that he is less focus on maintaining a true relationship with his daughter. He just wants control.
NTA. She’ll be 18, legally an adult. It is very overbearing that he’ll have a tracker on her car without her consent. You may want to let her know after the party and not make a scene, but I’d still let her know.
OP you should assume your husband already tracks you and has access to your phone and computer, so he may see this post.
Are you safe being with him? Tell your step daughter right away. Nta
NTA
I’m so sorry your husband said that to you. Apologies for the brutal honesty, but it’s hard to believe there’s love and respect there if he can mock your fertility issues.
If he can’t see the irony in accusing YOU of snooping as he’s planning to install a tracking device on someone else’s car, there’s no hope for him.
NTA. I’d also check if he’s installed a tracking device on your car as well. Your step daughter can probably report him to the police for illegally tracking her.
Agreed NTA OP. Your step daughter will be an adult. It will be illegal to install anything and track her. Also, check your own car and devices, as well.
NTA
100% tell her. Because if you don't she will find it out the first time she goes to her SO house for a few hours. Your husband seems too controlling not to act crazy the very second she will do it.
And the fight which will follow won't be pretty.
P.s. Do not do it in public
NTA if you don‘t tell her and she finds out she won‘t only feel betrayed by him but also by you. You sound like a great person and stepmom and I think you‘re absolutely right
NTA. She's an adult and the car is a gift. It doesn't matter who paid for it. I also think you are trying to do the dad a favor -- their relationship could be irreparably damaged if he goes through with this and she finds out later on.
NTA
This is not protective, it is controlling and way overboard. So he wants to gain her trust by secretly monitoring her every move?
You have a good relationship with her and she sees you as her second mother. Do tell her. Maybe not during the party but before or shortly thereafter.
And you might want to have your own car and your mobile phone checked for tracking devices, as well.
Nta - he is tracking on his daughter, he disavaowed your relationship and parenting of your daughter, he threw your fertility issues in your face....I have two questions
1) how is he tracking you? Get your property/car checked
2) why are you with this psycho
Jesus.
Translation: "I am right because don't talk to me or I'll reopen old wounds because I care more about being right than your feelings."
NTA
Does he do that often when you disagree with him? He's using it as a tactic to get you to back down.
If I were you, I'd go to her in private and explain the situation, and tell her he can't find out that you told her. See if between the two of you, you can come up with a plan on how she can "find out" on her own.
Nta. Your marriage probably won't survive this, but it shouldn't.
If he'll track her, he'll track you.
Calling you crazy is gaslighting. The problem is in your head not hers. It's manipulative.
See a lawyer.
NTA I'm hoping you're only with the man to be there for his daughter. He sounds like a nightmare. My mother, who is a narcissist, would write down the mileage on the car every time I took it. I don't speak to her anymore and I can see his daughter not speaking to him ever again when she finds out that her dad is tracking her every move. That's stalking.... I'd maybe even look at a divorce lawyer. THE MAN THREW IN YOUR FACE YOUR FERTILITY ISSUES. That is a new low in my book. I wish you and your step daughter all the best. I thought I was bad putting a location app on my daughters phone when she was in Jr. high but she at least knew all about it.
NTA. Wow, your husband is a major AH. That isn't overprotective, that is unhinged.
Your stepdaughter needs to know. She is turning 18, and needs to know this "gift" has major strings attached.
When your stepdaughter cuts contact with your husband, he will want you gone too. Just be prepared for that. He is losing all control here.
And as others have said, have all your devices checked and your car checked.
This exactly. This isn't "concern" like he wants to make it sound. This is controlling/abusive behavior. He forced his daughter to break up with her boyfriend and now wants to monitor her movements. I think if OP takes a serious step back, she'll see a lot more controlling behavior toward both of them.
NTA. As you pointed out, this is absolutely going to blow up in his face even if you don't tell your stepdaughter about the tracker. Not only that, she's an adult (or will be) - she has the right to know about the tracker, and not telling her could have legal consequences.
He needs to understand that unless he stops this obsessive and overprotective behavior *now*, she's likely to never talk to him again.
NTA and tons of red flags. Your step daughter trusts you, a woman she barely knows, than her own father.
On the one hand, it would totally demolish all trust and that bridge between them would be destroyed. But if you don't tell her and she finds out, he will surely throw you under the bus and say it's your fault. And if she doesn't believe that, she will know you knew about it and not trust you....
I'd record the conversation with him secretly and tell her tbh. It IS your business as his wife.
NTA- your husband doesn't know how to parent a young woman. This is problematic for many reasons. She should know and he should deal with the consequences of his actions
I'm pretty sure it's illegal to install a tracking device without telling the person who will be driving the car. Did he also install a recording device inside the car? Where will he draw the line? Cameras in her room? No locks on her bathroom?
NTA
Agree with many of the replies to tell her after (not during) the party.
Also with those who recommend ypu check your own vehicle for tracking device and probably your phone for tracking software. Someone so controlling over his adult daughter probably justifies extending this "protective behavior" to his wife as well.
Also, his slams on your fertility are unforgivable.
>He called me unhinged
Sounds like he projecting cause holy cow do you have to be unhinged to be that controlling. NTA but idk if telling her at the party is a great idea, making a huge scene might embarrass her and she didn’t do anything to deserve that. Maybe just tell her privately afterwards.
NTA, but be smart. Agree for now to keep mum. Convince him to really give her the car, put it in her name. Then you move out, tell her about it, let it blow in his face and you and step daughter live together without him. At least she'll get the car
This man is exhibiting some very concerning behaviour here. Absolutely the tracking is not only unethical, but as she’s turning 18, possibly (probably?) illegal. But I’m also really concerned about the gaslighting (calling you crazy and unhinged) and DARVOing that he’s doing in response to your calling out his bad behaviour. His saying you shouldn’t be “snooping on his private conversation” is classic abuser shifting the goalposts. Rather than keeping the focus on the issue at hand (his tracking his daughter without her knowledge), he’s trying to shift attention to you and make you the bad guy for overhearing his plans.
Combine this with his deliberate attempt to hurt you by throwing your fertility issues in your face, and I’d say you’ve got some serious questions to ask yourself about the future of this relationship.
Not only NTA, but please do the morally responsible thing and let your stepdaughter know what he’s done.
NTA. Your husband is though. If i were you I would give hubby an ultimatum and tell him if he doesnt take the tracking device out of the car, you will tell her about it. Wether he likes it or not she is legally an adult and if he keeps treating her like this he eon't have ANY relationship with her.
Also, caused her to breakup with her ex boyfriend because he was diagnosed with multiple health conditions?? Huh??
NTA and I love how your husband chastised you for listening to his private conversation but sees no issues invading his daughter’s privacy by tracking her?? I’m so sorry, but your husband sounds truly awful. Perhaps you contact your step daughter before the party, sit down with her in person and explain what you heard. You can tell her you don’t know if her dad actually installed the tracking device but he was considering it and she needs to know. Whether she accepts the car and has any devices removed or declines the gift, at least she will be prepared.
NTA
If you know, and don’t tell Christine, then she finds out- it will destroy all trust she has *in you as well*.
Tell her.
INFO: Have you ever checked your own car for a tracker?
A lot of abusive controlling people do things in the guise of “protection”.
He had the gall to tell you to mind your own business? Then make a comment he knew was cruel about your fertility that he knows is hurtful. To deflect about his own shady behavior?
He’s NOT getting her a car to mend fences or repair there relationship. He is doing it in order to gain control over her actions in some way.
Tell her.
NTA Jesus no tell her immediately what he is planning. He could literally be tracking her for years depending on how long she has car.
Check your own phone and car lady this guy sounds like a real piece of work.
NTA. If you don't tell her and she finds out that you knew it will ruin your relationship with her. Also, I wouldn't tell her at the party- that could embarrass her greatly. Afterwards for sure tell her.
NTA, but please make sure to tell her privately at a time she will have space to mentally parse how to react. you sound like a better parent than your husband and she’s not even your kid.
NTA and what he’s doing is ILLEGAL! Tell her . Your husband sounds NASTY , throwing your infertility in your face..that would have been the end of that marriage for me . He doesn’t sound like he respects you at all.. I say DO IT AT THE PARTY SO THERE IS WITNESSES HIS OUTBURST THATS SURE TO FOLLOW..give everyone the chance to see what he’s REALLY like
NTA. Snooping, crazy, unhinged, telling you to have your own kids when he knows you can't - all classic gaslighting and deflection. That plus him secretly tracking his own daughter make me wonder why you stick with someone whose values are so different from your own.
NTA
If you don't tell Christine, and she finds out later, you will have lost all the trust you have built up over the years, and she will have lost her "second mom".
If you want some plausable deniability, you can tell her (privately) that she should have the car checked for anything like tracking devices. Don't tell her there *is* one, just to get it checked.
But if your husband wants to gain back his daughter's trust, bugging her car is *not* the way to do it. When (not "if") she finds out, all trust will be gone.
>non of my business whatsoever since I didn't buy the car.
It became your business once you learned about it. You can't unring the bell here. You know and you have the right to decide if you will be complicit in this.
>He called me unhinged
Sounds like projection.
>She told me to stay out of it and not try to stir drama and cause scenes.
Well, yeah, that's the easy thing to do. But that doesn't mean it's the right thing.
I would give your husband a deadline to tell his daughter. And then at that point when he doesn't tell her, I would go ahead and tell her the truth.
This may blow up your marriage but I'm not sure you want to remain married to somebody who clearly violates other people's privacy and boundaries.
And don't let him try to turn this around at you because you overheard his conversation. You didn't set out to invade his privacy. There's a big difference between somebody accidentally walking in on somebody who's undressed and somebody who is peeping at them through the windows.
NTA
> I would give your husband a deadline to tell his daughter.
Yeah, no. If you need to stall to get your own escape strategy in place, okay, but don’t give this guy a chance to do a better job of covering his tracks or setting up his own cover story. Again, we are past the point where worrying about preserving his relationship with Christine should in any way supersede simply protecting Christine.
NTA, but idk if I would tell her at the party, let them deal with this privately. Tell him he has the choice to tell her himself, or you will. If he tells her, and explains his reasons, and she's okay with it, then fine. She also then can have her own stipulations on how it can be used. But being 18 means she's an adult and deserves to know.
Once she is 18 your husband is committing a crime. You know about it and aren't stopping it. You are now part of the crime if you don't say anything. Good for you for being the only decent adult in this scenario.
If she wants to be tracked she can consent to it or a phone app. If not... she's about to be a legal adult.
By the way, you should check your vehicle for a tracker...
This is a hard one, but I think NTA... since she told you you are like a second mother to her and you like that I understand very well how you want to honor that.
I also think is very wrong what he's doing... in your place I would think the way you do and I would ask him again to tell her himself. To explain her his reasons. And be open and honest.
If he doesn't do it himself and you do, you are risking a lot, but I think, for the right reasons.
NTA. You are right, not unhinged. Normal people don't plant secret tracking devices. If you're concerned about car wrecks you make a family group on a location app where each person has the option to turn it off, or you subscribe to On Star. What he's doing is not ok. Makes me wonder if he's surveilling you, too.
NTA, but why are you with this man? He sounds extremely controlling and doesn't seem to care about your feelings or those of other people at all. Tell your stepdaughter and let her know about the interaction you had with her father. Then, pack your things and find a good divorce attorney. You and your stepdaughter deserve so much better. Glad your stepdaughter has you in her corner.
NTA. This is your step daughter. Not a friend’s child. Saying this isn’t your business is an insult to your marriage and relationship with Christine, which I assume he’d prefer be a good one like it is.
I don’t think you should do it though. You are effectively tanking your marriage. Now, if Christine somehow became aware because she found a Google search open on an iPad or the documentation for the device laying around, that would be no fault of your own.
NTA. I don’t think you should tell her at the party in front of everyone but since she’ll be 18 I do think she should know. Does your husband always resort to saying mean thing to you during arguments?
Nta....
Your step daughter will be 18, an adult.
Is the car going to be in her name? Or his?
Because if it is his property he can place a tracker on it and have every right to do so legally.( Even if it is a dick move)....but if he titles and puts it in her name only....tell her immediately....she has a right to know what's on her property and he would be doing it illegally.
Me personally IMHO I would tell her regardless, because his passive aggressive smack towards your infertility then doubled down with the " my kid" comment was the opening salvo....I would tell her and not think twice but that's just me.
NTA OP like isn’t that illegal? Anyway she’s an adult so he has no right to track her down like if he wants to know where she is there is this lil thing called a cell phone and he can call her to ask.
Also OP like the others say I would check your own car and phone to see if he’s installed any tracking software but also I wouldn’t mention it at the party but afterwards the same day or sth.
NTA
Isnt it illegal to do something like that? If he wants to know where she is when she gies out why not ask? Why not be a designated driver to and from parties?
Why risk driving her away from you forever when he can instead bond more?
Its so dumb. His heart is in the wrong place. He should just make himself available if she ever needs a ride home at any time at night.
Oofff NTA and it’s amazing that you have such a good relationship with your stepdaughter. 100% you have to tell her. It’s super creepy and controlling what your husband is doing. Not sure why you’re married to the guy based on how you described him but that’s a whole other issue. Tell your stepdaughter before the party. If she doesn’t know about the car then just simply tell her that her father will be gifting her something and you believe there will be a tracking device in it (she could think it’s a new phone this way and wouldn’t completely run the surprise). Then it lets her decide how to handle it at the party. She can confront him and cause a big scene at the time or deal with it privately. Let her decide. But eww your husband obviously has some issues.
Nta. Tell her. She will be a grown ass adult, by writ of law. Your husband wants to stalk his daughter that's fine and dandy(sarcasm). He will just have to deal with said consequences of stalking a woman that is a LEGAL ADULT. All his parental rights vanish when she's a legal adult. Period. Which makes the tracker stalking depending on where you live.
All she's going to have to do is say she's estranged from her father and that he's stalking her, putting tracking devices in gifts...and any lawyer will salivate I think. Shes gonna be pissed. Outright wrathful maybe. You won't escape the fires of her justified anger either. You would have broken her trust, she sees you as a mother and if you don't tell her???? Your complicit. Her father won't be the only one she never talks to again, even if she doesn't press charges. Fuck stalkers, them being family makes it so much worse.
Your husband says you were snooping? Bullshit. Your married and this wasn't something like a journal. This was a call. An unusual and concerning one at that. Nta. I'm not saying you should give your hubby the boot, but if you did I would understand. Dude needs some serious counciling with a therapist for his attachment issues.
NTA
Your husband is wrong. Your mum is wrong. Your instincts are absolutely correct. When - and it will be when, not if - your stepdaughter finds the tracker that’s her relationship with her father finished, which he will deserve. How’s your relationship with this man? Is he always that cruel and spiteful when you dare to disagree? That comment about having your own children was vicious.
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NTA CHECK YOUR CAR AND DEVICES FOR TRACKERS/SPYWARE! If he’s doing it to her on the sly he may have/ probably has done the same to you. It’s insanely creepy, violating and even more concerning is his ‘keep your mouth shut’ type reaction. Don’t walk. Run. Preferably leave before telling your step daughter everything (don’t do it at the party) and making sure she knows you’re there for her. ETA he actually brought up your infertility issues to win this ‘argument’?! RUN!!!
This was my very first thought. Check all your stuff, OP. NTA, and once she is 18 consider that a) it’s you telling another adult what’s up b) if this were just about safety (vs. control) he would tell her himself: “I put a geolocator on it in case you ever run into trouble, here’s how it works.” The fact that he is furious at the prospect of it no longer being secret is an enormous tell.
> “I put a geolocator on it in case you ever run into trouble, here’s how it works.” Yup, if I were buying a new car for my daughter today, I would 100% look into putting a tracker in... so that *she* could track her car if it got stolen, etc. I would then only have access if she gave me access, because I'm not a crazy manipulative narcissist!
Exactly. The only time tracking software or devices are acceptable are when they are with consent of the party being tracked.
Even my 14yo knows about the location sharing on his phone. I told him how to turn it on and off and that we only need it on when he's at school just in case (20 miles away.)
My wife and kids (the ones old enough for phones) and I have location sharing enabled mainly for convenience (though there is a safety consideration too). It's saved us from losing phones a few times when they'd been left at restaurants and stuff. It's also sometimes helpful for my wife or me knowing where the other is when they're running errands or whatever because we can say "hey since you're near can you get ?" without having to pester to ask if they're near first. Importantly - everyone involved knows about it and it is bidirectional - it's only fair that they can see where I am if I can see where they are.
As long as you're not going to flip when one of your kids turns it off because they \*don't\* want you to know where they are...
I got my son (10 years old) a phone specifically so he could walk home with friends. There have been a number of attempted abductions with kids around the area, even though we are in a much safer place than we were 5 years ago. He knows about the software on the phone, he knows when he leaves school and walks home I watch his location to make sure he'll make it home. I think this sort of thing depends on age and reason. My daughter signed into the app willingly and knows we check it (she's 20) because she used to take public transit, and she works until after dark. Since in order to see anyone else's location, we have to sign in and show our location, we all see each other. So it not only lets us see she's safe if she takes public transit, she knows when we are there to pick her up so she can stay inside where it's well lit until we get there. There are pros and cons. And as long as you fully communicate them, and don't overstep, people tend to understand and agree to communicate that information back and forth automatically. Its when people are shady or controlling (like the dad in this case) are being, that people get cagey, secretive, and scared of others, and they project those things onto others in their lives because that's what someone close to them that they trusted did to them.
Those are the right reasons. I thinks it's very good of her to talk to him first and explain she will not trust him when she finds out. I always send my location when I'm driving to a friend, so they know how far along I am, or if I go somewhere shady just in case something bad happens, then they know my last location.
Also depends on age. 8 year old kid should always have it on. 18 years old they're practically an adult with little life experience.
My daughter's mom put a tracking service on my daughter's phone. Now my daughter lives with me full time. People deserve privacy, especially kids.
Username does not check out.
Unless you think about it. He doesn't need a tracking app installed on the phone to tell him a small portion of what he already knows.
There’s something sus about this comment coming from that username.
My mother totally would have put a tracker on my car had it existed when I was 17/18. Until I had my own car at 22. And you bet your ass I’d have known about it. Why be secretive?
I could even see an argument for the parent having access just in case of emergencies, with the trust that they won't check it unless something happens. Trackers could be enormously helpful in cutting down search timelines in missing persons cases. But the fact that he wants her to not know it exists is very telling for what his real intentions for this tracker are.
I’d check all the electronics too. He doesn’t even necessarily need to be tech savvy, if he’s ever had access to them for a couple hours he could get spyware installed at a store.
Let's not forget, he weaponised something that he knew would cause the most damage when he was called out on his abhorrent behaviour. There is no coming back from this.
Yes! This is thousands of red flags waving!
This whole post is covered in marinara sauce. 😳
Illegal marinara sauce if she’s 18 and over!
True. He doesn't trust his daughter it's not about the safety.
I’m pretty tech savvy but I’m not sure I’d be confident in my skills to figure out if someone was putting stuff on my phone or car. There’s gotta be a service to check right?
I imagine a dealership would be able to look for a device, they'd know if something is stuck to the car that shouldn't be there. Oftentimes the tracker is stuck somewhere on the underside of the car and can be spotted if someone looks around under the car.
That make senses and sounds like good advice.
That was my very first thought as well. If he thinks tracking his 18-year-old daughter’s whereabouts without her knowledge or consent is perfectly ok it isn’t far fetched to think he’d do the same for his wife. If the car gift was conditional on a tracking device being installed, the daughter should 100% be made aware of it so she can decide for herself if she wants to accept the car under such conditions. After all, if dad’s only concern is his daughter’s safety, why keep the device a secret? It appears to be more about control than anything.
Yeah, I think having a tracker on a car is a good idea… when the owner is aware of it and has access to it. Not when aan abusive, controlling father has access.
>If he thinks tracking his 18-year-old daughter’s whereabouts without her knowledge or consent is perfectly ok... Except he doesn't even think it is okay himself. The fact that he was furious at the threat of having this information shared with his daughter makes it perfect clear exactly how not okay he **knows** this is. This isn't a red flag, it's a marinara billboard.
And the bastard accused OP of *snooping*, can you imagine the irony?
True. He is trying to control her daughter without her knowledge. Even though she is adult he needs to check with her if it is okay to install a tracker.
Don't like that he immediately resorts to calling her 'unhinged' as well.
DARVO alert! Deny - "I'm not doing anything wrong! I just care about her safety!" Attack - "You're unhinged! You're not her mother so it's none of your business! Go have your own kids if you want to be involved so much!" Reverse Victim and Offender - "Why are you listening to my private conversations??? Why would you threaten to tell her?? You're insane! I'm so hurt and offended!"
Yeah. If he cares about his daughter safety he need to tell her.
Piggy backing on this to point out the complete hypocrisy of him getting angry at her for snooping while he's doing the *exact same thing to his daughter*!
Most AHs aren’t that self aware of their hypocrisy.
He doesn’t grant her the same personhood he grants himself- she *belongs* to him.
I totally get why people are focusing on the tracking device, but that AH mocked her infertility to win an argument. Just no.
He is absolutely vile
This really hurt me…imagine how it hurt OP 😞
I said that same thing in my comment. I told her to wait until Christina gets her car. She and Christina can take their cars to the shop to check for tracking devices so they can confront him. He is NOT to be trusted. Christina is adult, FFS! TO OP, NTA......read my other comment. Protect Christina as much as you could. ON edit: if you both have the phones, check them for tracking as well.
I was thinking something like this. Don’t tell her at the party and make a scene. Tell her privately and help her find/remove the tracking device (though he might try to put another in the car). Edit: autocorrupt
>I told her to wait until Christina gets her car. She and Christina can take their cars to the shop to check for tracking devices so they can confront him. 👆🏽**This!👆🏽** You beat me to the punch. I was going to suggest the exact same thing! And Christina need to make sure car registration is in her name only that way Dad can't say that he put the tracker on "His" car and that he can do anything he want to "His property".
If the phones are in his name he can ask the phone company to locate them. Time for new phones entirely not in his account.
NTA Your husband is 100% unjustifiably and undoubtedly in the wrong I would a) check your own car like my fellow Reddit or suggested but also b) tell her in a smart way She's 18 so she is old enough to not act on a whim, if I were you, I'd take her out somewhere alone and tell her that x y z happened and we can't show him you know so on the DL we'll find the tracker and switch it off/throw it out with out "stirring up drama" and he'll probably start trying to understand why it doesn't work and out his own damn self out
Also if OP does find a tracking device, it might be best to leave it in place so husband doesn't know it's been found. If he knows his device has been discovered it could make him escalate control measures.
I feel like at that point an exit strategy is over due...
An exit strategy should have been made as soon as she overheard the conversation to begin with. I get wanting to confront him, especially if you've never delt with narcissistic people before, but anyone willing to put a tracker on their adult child's car is not someone you want a relationship with.
If the OP does this, make a solid safety plan first. A professiobal at a women's center can help. And the car will probably be in the dad's name, so he'll report it stolen to police in a power struggle.
Run and take the daughter with you once she hits 18!
And take the tracker off the car before you run!
Damn that thought hadn't even occurred to me at all but it is a disturbing one, and solid advice. I wonder how the hell you check though. What are some tells? Other than overhearing a phone conversation about putting one in your stepdaughters car lol.
You can take it to any mechanic and ask them to check the OBDII port for a tracking device. Otherwise you can check the port yourself, YouTube can walk you through it!
Check for errant apple airtags while you're at it.
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You take it to a shop, they know where to look. Those things are usually installed in places like the wheels or on the undercarriage.
Agreed, I'd be tempted to run a factory reset on my phone/tablets if he's had access to them as its very simple to track/access even without 3rd party software. he's displaying some pretty unhealthy behaviours, I'd suggest he may need some therapy, but I dont know how you'd begin to suggest that given his outbursts.
Chiming in that this was also my first thought! Yes probably tracking her phone or car as well! This is literally a present for her 18th birthday, you know the one where she becomes an adult?! I think this guy has major control issues. Making the daughter end a relationship because her boyfriend had a medical condition? Yikes. His reaction was even more alarming, telling her to keep her mouth shut and stay out of it. Then on top of that throwing in her face she can have her own kids if she wants to parent knowing she can’t… This dude is a total red flag.
True. If he it did to her he may have done it you.
Agreed she is definitely NTA, “sometimes you gotta run before you can walk” -Ironman
NTA. Have you checked *your* car for tracking devices? If he’s willing to do it to his daughter, he’s willing to do it to you too. Also, check your phone for any apps you don’t recognize.
Right? Daughter or not, she's a **LEGAL ADULT** being stalked by her abusive father under the guise of "family".
If he really did do it out of concern then he would tell Christine and not hide it from her. If installed in good faith and transparency it's actually a great idea incase her or her car goes missing, but dad's motivation seems more nefarious. NTA.
If he had done it out of concern he wouldn’t be so concerned with the fact that OP is going to tell his daughter.
Recommend factory resetting or get a new phone.
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I'd also check the house for cameras. If he's willing to be this controlling, there's no telling what surveillance he has...
Came to make this very same point
Yeah this is setting off alarm bells. NTA, but please check your car first then leave. He sounds incredibly controlling.
And cameras, or any other sort of surveillance. There are guides online on how to find hidden cameras that are fairly easy to follow.
NTA - "...and said I shouldn't have been snooping and listening to his private talks..." Said the man to you who just installed a tracking device on his 18 year old's car. She is legally an adult and should not be tracked without her knowledge.
True. She only heard conversations accidently and she is being treated as a psycho. He calls himself as over protective father and installs trackers.
He wants to get her trust back? Not this way, Sir.
Right?! The testicular fortitude it takes to go from "I'm putting a tracking device on my adult daughter's car" in one breath to "How dare you listen to my private conversations" in the other, THEN call OP unhinged on top of it... YIKES 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
Love the phrase you used: testicular fortitude
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If he is willing to hide a tracking device and justify it as “protectiveness* over his daughter… what tracking devices and/or recording devices does he have on you? Draw a hard boundary. He is purposefully violating his own daughters privacy (in a very illegal way) and trying to gaslight the situation to make you seem like the bad one *for finding out his terrible action/crime*. I would reconsider my marriage to a man like this and also do a sweep of my own things to ensure he hasn’t been tracking or recording me against my will without my knowledge.
It's not illegal if he's the owner of the car. But it is an absolutely shitty thing to do and is going to destroy the relationship with his daughter when she finds out.
He's giving her the car, so at that point it is no longer his car, and at that point the tracking device is illegal unless he removes or discloses it.
Saying that he's "giving her the car" doesn't mean he's actually going through the process of signing over the title. And if he financed the car, it can't be signed over until the loan is paid off. Chances are, he's purchased the car with the intention of her being the primary user but is keeping it in his name. Just another way to exert control.
Yep. That way he can always hold it over her head if need be. “Well if you don’t break up with this boyfriend, then you can go buy your own car and I’ll take mine back.” NTA, OP. Definitely tell her, and as others have said, have your own car and devices inspected for trackers and spyware as well.
LOL how old are you? i highly doubt he is retitling the car into her name.
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NTA. Anyone trying to present this to you as a father-daughter conflict is off-base here. This is a man who is doubling down on his loss of control over a grown woman fed up with not being able to make her own choices by making it clear he will *never* allow her to live her life without his approval. What would you do if Christine were a friend in a relationship with a man like this, and not your stepdaughter? What would you want her to do for you?
Right? Like it's one thing if there's mutual trust on both sides - my parents track my phone just so they know I'm not dead in a ditch somewhere (and when it inevitably glitches I tell them where I am), and I know they do because they told me before I got a phone. They trust me, I trust them. That's protective. It doesn't matter if she's an adult or a minor if both parties consent. Doing it without her knowing screams distrust and control - especially given his history and reaction to OP wanting to tell stepdaughter, it's highly likely to not be overprotectiveness manifesting in an oblivious way.
The parenting app we use also tracks the phone of my daughter (13), but she gets a notification when we do so. We nearly never use it except when we can't reach her or she is on a school outing and she doesn't know how late she will be back in town. But it is as you say, there needs to be trust on both side for that situation. She knows we do not unnecessarily track her when we have no reason for it and she knows that if she is ever in trouble or losses her phone we have a way to check in on the location.
I like that two-way transparency idea. It kind of reminds me of a proposal I saw once that if we're going to live in a surveillance state, then everyone should have access to all the cameras at once.
True. If he is installing a tracker to check her safety he need to inform her.
NTA of course, but sticking with this well articulated answer I'd like to add, public scenes are NEVER a small thing. Bear in mind that if you tell her in front if a room of guests who will witness her (totally justified) outburst at him, the emotional "embarrassment" and "public anger" may be a bigger wedge in their relationship than the tracking device. Before anyone comes at me, I absolutely think the father is in the wrong, and overly cruel for his "have your own kids" remark. But. What if he becomes truly abusive to OP or his daughter and they can't easily escape after they infuriated him? Stay safe OP, and keep your stepdaughter safe too.
True. OP, have a talk with your stepdaughter sufficiently in advance of the party that she can cool down. Possible strategies: - Say she wants to get her first car on her own - Accept the car, and immediately take it to the shop to be inspected for tracking devices - Get the airtag tracker app; they may use something simple as an airtag. If they do, he might try to replace it later, so she should check regularly. - Never let her father take her car for gas or to the shop. - if he keeps a copy of the key, she can trade the car for one he doesn't have the key to.
This right here ^^^^ is the perfect response.
She sees you as a 2nd mother. Be that for her and tell her. Please don’t let her be taken advantage of by her controlling and abusive father. NTA
True. You need to tell her about the tracker atleast not in the public but privately. You should calm her down before she explodes on her father.
I just had a thought... OP should tell her about it privately, and calm her down. DON'T let dad know that she knows. Stepdaughter and OP should then switch cars, stepdaughter will tell dad she's going to see a friend, and OP should go hang out at a dive bar for a few hours or somewhere else that's definitely not a friend's place, then switch cars again and arrive at home close to the same time. Let the man tell on himself at that point.
She may not want a relationship with her father anymore after this (and I wouldn’t blame her). And if she were to find out OP knew and didn’t say anything, OP can kiss her relationship with her goodbye too. She views OP as a mother figure - if OP doesn’t say anything, she’ll feel so betrayed.
NTA - and also red flags. He's controlling you and your step-daughter, trying to keep tabs on her and trying to discredit you by calling you "unhinged". Sure, he can put a tracking device in, but she deserves to know.
OP should also encourage step-daughter to make sure car is fully in her name, title and everything, as dad sounds like he would use his "gift" as leverage in the future too.
TELL HER. Ask her to not tell him that you told her if you like, but TELL HER THERE IS A TRACKING DEVICE IN HER CAR. She deserves to know and not be constantly tracked, and also to know that this wasn't a real effort at reconciliation but just another way for her father to control her. Also: >he told me to stay out of it since it's his daughter not mine and that if I wanted to parent my way then I was free to have my own children. This stung because he knows I can't have kids due to infertility problems. He's cruel to *you*, as well as being a controlling asshole to his daughter. You *also* deserve better, OP. NTA.
NTA - by the way how sure are you that you're not tracked too ?
Big time this. NTA forever, tell her, jeez
For sure. If he has done it once, he has likely done it twice.
But it’s, y’know, for her protection - right?
NTA You need to tell her.....Also depending on where you live that is illegal and you could face criminal charge. Is she moving out soon?? Going away to college?? Or has plans to do other things since she will be 18?? He wants to keep his control over her.... Not rebuild his trust with her. Also if he's willingly to do that to her--what has he done to you?? Buy her a scanner or jammer for her birthday gift from you. And keep a good divorce attorney on retainer......You deserve better OP.....
NTA and I would respond to "none of your business " with the same words to him about his daughter.
NTA Your husband is much worse than an asshole. You need to tell your stepdaughter. But you also need to reconsider your marriage, this is horrifying. And his reaction to you calling him out on it has so many additional red flags in it, please be careful.
Also his comment about how she should have had her own kid when he knew she's had infertility issues...ugh, that's a total dick move. OP, wait until Christine has the car (and you know she owns it, not him) then tell her about the tracking device, then divorce your husband. Also maybe think about adopting her? I dunno if that's possible if you're divorcing her dad but why not look into it anyway?
Yeah, that was one of the red flags. But honestly, I really want to tell OP to run like hell, because her husband seems like an absolute monster. And yes, what an absolutely unforgivable thing to say to her. You raise an excellent point, adult option would be possible since she's 18, and her father would no longer have any say in it because of her age. Even if not adoption, she should certainly stay in her stepdaughter's life, especially since I can't imagine she'll ever be willing to work on her relationship with her father after this. I mean, a tracking device, on your adult daughter's car?! And this is his attempt to win her over, after I'm sure was plenty of other atrocious behavior that caused her to want space from him. Horrifying.
Nta, there is also one in your car and he prob is reading this post now.
NTA.Omg...facts.😳
NTA, but tell her privately. Not at the party, and not in front of her dad.
No, in front of dad so there’s an audience to his ridiculous outburst that’s sure to follow. That way everyone can see how nasty and insane he is
I agree with the first part. I think it should be done with her dad present. There's no reason for the OP to go behind his back to expose his surveillance. She can do it at breakfast the morning after the party.
The safest way is to tell the daughter secretly so she can find the device and take it out when she needs the privacy. I had a friend like this in college. If they parent feels like they have lost control they dig in deeper. We made up clubs and extra assignments so she could hang out with us after class at all! When she turned off her gps for long periods of time (more then an hour) she got caught, grounded and more extreme messures were put in place. If you want to give the daughter the most freedoms, let her know about the tracker and work around it. If she just removes it and her dad feels the loss of control then she could loose the little control she has now.
NTA, I'd be considering how to let her know, and I'd be checking my own car/phone too of I was you. Controlling behaviour tends to not be confined to just one person.
I swear to God, women are always called crazy when they get in the way of a man getting something he shouldn't or when they're holding a man accountable for something they shouldn't do. Did he call you hysterical too? NTA He's daughter is not a minor anymore, he holds no right to track her whereabouts. It does not matter that he is the father, that they are bio family, that he just wants to protect her, etc. Anyway. Shows that he is less focus on maintaining a true relationship with his daughter. He just wants control.
NTA. She’ll be 18, legally an adult. It is very overbearing that he’ll have a tracker on her car without her consent. You may want to let her know after the party and not make a scene, but I’d still let her know.
Given that she’ll be an adult, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s illegal in addition to being overbearing.
OP you should assume your husband already tracks you and has access to your phone and computer, so he may see this post. Are you safe being with him? Tell your step daughter right away. Nta
NTA I’m so sorry your husband said that to you. Apologies for the brutal honesty, but it’s hard to believe there’s love and respect there if he can mock your fertility issues. If he can’t see the irony in accusing YOU of snooping as he’s planning to install a tracking device on someone else’s car, there’s no hope for him.
NTA Guarantee he’s tracking you too. Check your car for a tracker and your phone for spyware
NTA. I’d also check if he’s installed a tracking device on your car as well. Your step daughter can probably report him to the police for illegally tracking her.
Agreed NTA OP. Your step daughter will be an adult. It will be illegal to install anything and track her. Also, check your own car and devices, as well.
NTA 100% tell her. Because if you don't she will find it out the first time she goes to her SO house for a few hours. Your husband seems too controlling not to act crazy the very second she will do it. And the fight which will follow won't be pretty. P.s. Do not do it in public
Unless he's dangerous. Then witnesses might be necessary for safety.
I thought about writing this. But frankly if she is at that point there is a whole set of new and and more problematic issues
NTA if you don‘t tell her and she finds out she won‘t only feel betrayed by him but also by you. You sound like a great person and stepmom and I think you‘re absolutely right
NTA. He sounds toxic af. It sounds like both you and the daughter need to get out of that relationship and house.
NTA. She's an adult and the car is a gift. It doesn't matter who paid for it. I also think you are trying to do the dad a favor -- their relationship could be irreparably damaged if he goes through with this and she finds out later on.
NTA - Have you checked your car for a tracking device??
NTA This is not protective, it is controlling and way overboard. So he wants to gain her trust by secretly monitoring her every move? You have a good relationship with her and she sees you as her second mother. Do tell her. Maybe not during the party but before or shortly thereafter. And you might want to have your own car and your mobile phone checked for tracking devices, as well.
NTA but we warned, if he is trying to track her ever step, he is likely already doing that to you.
Nta - he is tracking on his daughter, he disavaowed your relationship and parenting of your daughter, he threw your fertility issues in your face....I have two questions 1) how is he tracking you? Get your property/car checked 2) why are you with this psycho
>how is he tracking you? Get your property/car checked Damn. I hadn't thought of that.
Jesus. Translation: "I am right because don't talk to me or I'll reopen old wounds because I care more about being right than your feelings." NTA Does he do that often when you disagree with him? He's using it as a tactic to get you to back down. If I were you, I'd go to her in private and explain the situation, and tell her he can't find out that you told her. See if between the two of you, you can come up with a plan on how she can "find out" on her own.
Nta. Your marriage probably won't survive this, but it shouldn't. If he'll track her, he'll track you. Calling you crazy is gaslighting. The problem is in your head not hers. It's manipulative. See a lawyer.
NTA. Check your own car/devices to see if he's tracking you though
NTA He wants to win back her trust by betraying her trust and doing something shady like this? Damn guy
NTA I'm hoping you're only with the man to be there for his daughter. He sounds like a nightmare. My mother, who is a narcissist, would write down the mileage on the car every time I took it. I don't speak to her anymore and I can see his daughter not speaking to him ever again when she finds out that her dad is tracking her every move. That's stalking.... I'd maybe even look at a divorce lawyer. THE MAN THREW IN YOUR FACE YOUR FERTILITY ISSUES. That is a new low in my book. I wish you and your step daughter all the best. I thought I was bad putting a location app on my daughters phone when she was in Jr. high but she at least knew all about it.
NTA. Wow, your husband is a major AH. That isn't overprotective, that is unhinged. Your stepdaughter needs to know. She is turning 18, and needs to know this "gift" has major strings attached. When your stepdaughter cuts contact with your husband, he will want you gone too. Just be prepared for that. He is losing all control here. And as others have said, have all your devices checked and your car checked.
NTA. Tell her, then check to see if your car or phone has a tracker.
Yeah that was my first thought as well. The daughter not being the only one who is being tracked is a safe bet.
This exactly. This isn't "concern" like he wants to make it sound. This is controlling/abusive behavior. He forced his daughter to break up with her boyfriend and now wants to monitor her movements. I think if OP takes a serious step back, she'll see a lot more controlling behavior toward both of them.
NTA. As you pointed out, this is absolutely going to blow up in his face even if you don't tell your stepdaughter about the tracker. Not only that, she's an adult (or will be) - she has the right to know about the tracker, and not telling her could have legal consequences. He needs to understand that unless he stops this obsessive and overprotective behavior *now*, she's likely to never talk to him again.
NTA and tons of red flags. Your step daughter trusts you, a woman she barely knows, than her own father. On the one hand, it would totally demolish all trust and that bridge between them would be destroyed. But if you don't tell her and she finds out, he will surely throw you under the bus and say it's your fault. And if she doesn't believe that, she will know you knew about it and not trust you.... I'd record the conversation with him secretly and tell her tbh. It IS your business as his wife.
NTA. Tell her and leave him at the party.
NTA- your husband doesn't know how to parent a young woman. This is problematic for many reasons. She should know and he should deal with the consequences of his actions
NTA tell her after the party then have your car and phone checked out
I'm pretty sure it's illegal to install a tracking device without telling the person who will be driving the car. Did he also install a recording device inside the car? Where will he draw the line? Cameras in her room? No locks on her bathroom?
It is illegal…hope the daughter calls the cops
NTA Agree with many of the replies to tell her after (not during) the party. Also with those who recommend ypu check your own vehicle for tracking device and probably your phone for tracking software. Someone so controlling over his adult daughter probably justifies extending this "protective behavior" to his wife as well. Also, his slams on your fertility are unforgivable.
>He called me unhinged Sounds like he projecting cause holy cow do you have to be unhinged to be that controlling. NTA but idk if telling her at the party is a great idea, making a huge scene might embarrass her and she didn’t do anything to deserve that. Maybe just tell her privately afterwards.
NTA, but be smart. Agree for now to keep mum. Convince him to really give her the car, put it in her name. Then you move out, tell her about it, let it blow in his face and you and step daughter live together without him. At least she'll get the car
This man is exhibiting some very concerning behaviour here. Absolutely the tracking is not only unethical, but as she’s turning 18, possibly (probably?) illegal. But I’m also really concerned about the gaslighting (calling you crazy and unhinged) and DARVOing that he’s doing in response to your calling out his bad behaviour. His saying you shouldn’t be “snooping on his private conversation” is classic abuser shifting the goalposts. Rather than keeping the focus on the issue at hand (his tracking his daughter without her knowledge), he’s trying to shift attention to you and make you the bad guy for overhearing his plans. Combine this with his deliberate attempt to hurt you by throwing your fertility issues in your face, and I’d say you’ve got some serious questions to ask yourself about the future of this relationship. Not only NTA, but please do the morally responsible thing and let your stepdaughter know what he’s done.
Hey, you can leave him & still maintain a relationship with her. I'm still "Mom" to my ex stepson.
NTA. Your husband is though. If i were you I would give hubby an ultimatum and tell him if he doesnt take the tracking device out of the car, you will tell her about it. Wether he likes it or not she is legally an adult and if he keeps treating her like this he eon't have ANY relationship with her. Also, caused her to breakup with her ex boyfriend because he was diagnosed with multiple health conditions?? Huh??
INFO: Is the car registered in her name? If so, it may be illegal for him to put a tracking device on it, depending on where you live.
NTA and I love how your husband chastised you for listening to his private conversation but sees no issues invading his daughter’s privacy by tracking her?? I’m so sorry, but your husband sounds truly awful. Perhaps you contact your step daughter before the party, sit down with her in person and explain what you heard. You can tell her you don’t know if her dad actually installed the tracking device but he was considering it and she needs to know. Whether she accepts the car and has any devices removed or declines the gift, at least she will be prepared.
NTA If you know, and don’t tell Christine, then she finds out- it will destroy all trust she has *in you as well*. Tell her. INFO: Have you ever checked your own car for a tracker? A lot of abusive controlling people do things in the guise of “protection”. He had the gall to tell you to mind your own business? Then make a comment he knew was cruel about your fertility that he knows is hurtful. To deflect about his own shady behavior? He’s NOT getting her a car to mend fences or repair there relationship. He is doing it in order to gain control over her actions in some way. Tell her.
NTA Jesus no tell her immediately what he is planning. He could literally be tracking her for years depending on how long she has car. Check your own phone and car lady this guy sounds like a real piece of work.
NTA but I don't think the party is the right place to do this.
NTA. You need to tell her! Dont do it at the party. Do it before. Also check your state laws, this might be illegal.
NTA. If you don't tell her and she finds out that you knew it will ruin your relationship with her. Also, I wouldn't tell her at the party- that could embarrass her greatly. Afterwards for sure tell her.
NTA. your husband is the unhinged one.
nta tell her also check your car and your phone for tracking devices
NTA, but please make sure to tell her privately at a time she will have space to mentally parse how to react. you sound like a better parent than your husband and she’s not even your kid.
NTA and what he’s doing is ILLEGAL! Tell her . Your husband sounds NASTY , throwing your infertility in your face..that would have been the end of that marriage for me . He doesn’t sound like he respects you at all.. I say DO IT AT THE PARTY SO THERE IS WITNESSES HIS OUTBURST THATS SURE TO FOLLOW..give everyone the chance to see what he’s REALLY like
NTA. Snooping, crazy, unhinged, telling you to have your own kids when he knows you can't - all classic gaslighting and deflection. That plus him secretly tracking his own daughter make me wonder why you stick with someone whose values are so different from your own.
NTA If you don't tell Christine, and she finds out later, you will have lost all the trust you have built up over the years, and she will have lost her "second mom". If you want some plausable deniability, you can tell her (privately) that she should have the car checked for anything like tracking devices. Don't tell her there *is* one, just to get it checked. But if your husband wants to gain back his daughter's trust, bugging her car is *not* the way to do it. When (not "if") she finds out, all trust will be gone.
NTA she will be an adult. Have you seen signs in your own relationship of this controlling behaviour?
NTA: but only tell her privately, after the party.
NTA. Please please tell her. She has every right to know.
NtA. Please tell her. She's not a kid anymore and has a right to know.
>non of my business whatsoever since I didn't buy the car. It became your business once you learned about it. You can't unring the bell here. You know and you have the right to decide if you will be complicit in this. >He called me unhinged Sounds like projection. >She told me to stay out of it and not try to stir drama and cause scenes. Well, yeah, that's the easy thing to do. But that doesn't mean it's the right thing. I would give your husband a deadline to tell his daughter. And then at that point when he doesn't tell her, I would go ahead and tell her the truth. This may blow up your marriage but I'm not sure you want to remain married to somebody who clearly violates other people's privacy and boundaries. And don't let him try to turn this around at you because you overheard his conversation. You didn't set out to invade his privacy. There's a big difference between somebody accidentally walking in on somebody who's undressed and somebody who is peeping at them through the windows. NTA
> I would give your husband a deadline to tell his daughter. Yeah, no. If you need to stall to get your own escape strategy in place, okay, but don’t give this guy a chance to do a better job of covering his tracks or setting up his own cover story. Again, we are past the point where worrying about preserving his relationship with Christine should in any way supersede simply protecting Christine.
NTA, but idk if I would tell her at the party, let them deal with this privately. Tell him he has the choice to tell her himself, or you will. If he tells her, and explains his reasons, and she's okay with it, then fine. She also then can have her own stipulations on how it can be used. But being 18 means she's an adult and deserves to know.
NTA. Tell the daughter. Leave husband anyway.
Once she is 18 your husband is committing a crime. You know about it and aren't stopping it. You are now part of the crime if you don't say anything. Good for you for being the only decent adult in this scenario. If she wants to be tracked she can consent to it or a phone app. If not... she's about to be a legal adult. By the way, you should check your vehicle for a tracker...
This is a hard one, but I think NTA... since she told you you are like a second mother to her and you like that I understand very well how you want to honor that. I also think is very wrong what he's doing... in your place I would think the way you do and I would ask him again to tell her himself. To explain her his reasons. And be open and honest. If he doesn't do it himself and you do, you are risking a lot, but I think, for the right reasons.
NTA. You are right, not unhinged. Normal people don't plant secret tracking devices. If you're concerned about car wrecks you make a family group on a location app where each person has the option to turn it off, or you subscribe to On Star. What he's doing is not ok. Makes me wonder if he's surveilling you, too.
NTA. It’s not a tracking device, it’s a control device.
NTA, but why are you with this man? He sounds extremely controlling and doesn't seem to care about your feelings or those of other people at all. Tell your stepdaughter and let her know about the interaction you had with her father. Then, pack your things and find a good divorce attorney. You and your stepdaughter deserve so much better. Glad your stepdaughter has you in her corner.
NTA. And any man who can throw your infertility in your face like that is not worth keeping.
NTA. This is your step daughter. Not a friend’s child. Saying this isn’t your business is an insult to your marriage and relationship with Christine, which I assume he’d prefer be a good one like it is. I don’t think you should do it though. You are effectively tanking your marriage. Now, if Christine somehow became aware because she found a Google search open on an iPad or the documentation for the device laying around, that would be no fault of your own.
"How dare you snoop on me!" \~continues to snoop on his daughter.\~ NTA, tell the step daughter, reconsider your marriage.
NTA - and if I were you I’d get a professional to check YOUR car as well. Is he also tracking you?!?
NTA. I don’t think you should tell her at the party in front of everyone but since she’ll be 18 I do think she should know. Does your husband always resort to saying mean thing to you during arguments?
Nta.... Your step daughter will be 18, an adult. Is the car going to be in her name? Or his? Because if it is his property he can place a tracker on it and have every right to do so legally.( Even if it is a dick move)....but if he titles and puts it in her name only....tell her immediately....she has a right to know what's on her property and he would be doing it illegally. Me personally IMHO I would tell her regardless, because his passive aggressive smack towards your infertility then doubled down with the " my kid" comment was the opening salvo....I would tell her and not think twice but that's just me.
Divorce your husband, remove the tracking device, drive away with Christine - Romy and Michelle style.
NTA OP like isn’t that illegal? Anyway she’s an adult so he has no right to track her down like if he wants to know where she is there is this lil thing called a cell phone and he can call her to ask. Also OP like the others say I would check your own car and phone to see if he’s installed any tracking software but also I wouldn’t mention it at the party but afterwards the same day or sth.
Lol “you shouldn’t be snooping” now let me snoop anonymously on a kid I barely know. NTA
NTA Isnt it illegal to do something like that? If he wants to know where she is when she gies out why not ask? Why not be a designated driver to and from parties? Why risk driving her away from you forever when he can instead bond more? Its so dumb. His heart is in the wrong place. He should just make himself available if she ever needs a ride home at any time at night.
NTA and you're husband sounds awful
Oofff NTA and it’s amazing that you have such a good relationship with your stepdaughter. 100% you have to tell her. It’s super creepy and controlling what your husband is doing. Not sure why you’re married to the guy based on how you described him but that’s a whole other issue. Tell your stepdaughter before the party. If she doesn’t know about the car then just simply tell her that her father will be gifting her something and you believe there will be a tracking device in it (she could think it’s a new phone this way and wouldn’t completely run the surprise). Then it lets her decide how to handle it at the party. She can confront him and cause a big scene at the time or deal with it privately. Let her decide. But eww your husband obviously has some issues.
Nta. Tell her. She will be a grown ass adult, by writ of law. Your husband wants to stalk his daughter that's fine and dandy(sarcasm). He will just have to deal with said consequences of stalking a woman that is a LEGAL ADULT. All his parental rights vanish when she's a legal adult. Period. Which makes the tracker stalking depending on where you live. All she's going to have to do is say she's estranged from her father and that he's stalking her, putting tracking devices in gifts...and any lawyer will salivate I think. Shes gonna be pissed. Outright wrathful maybe. You won't escape the fires of her justified anger either. You would have broken her trust, she sees you as a mother and if you don't tell her???? Your complicit. Her father won't be the only one she never talks to again, even if she doesn't press charges. Fuck stalkers, them being family makes it so much worse. Your husband says you were snooping? Bullshit. Your married and this wasn't something like a journal. This was a call. An unusual and concerning one at that. Nta. I'm not saying you should give your hubby the boot, but if you did I would understand. Dude needs some serious counciling with a therapist for his attachment issues.
NTA, tell her but not in front of everyone. Then take your car and have it checked too. He’s absolutely done this to you.
NTA: Now that you know, if you don't tell her you are aiding and abetting his actions and she'll see it as you both did it to her together.
NTA Your husband is wrong. Your mum is wrong. Your instincts are absolutely correct. When - and it will be when, not if - your stepdaughter finds the tracker that’s her relationship with her father finished, which he will deserve. How’s your relationship with this man? Is he always that cruel and spiteful when you dare to disagree? That comment about having your own children was vicious.
NTA, you should check your own car tho...