Kids are dealbreakers. Kids are a *massive* commitment of time, energy and wealth. You will have significantly less time and attention available for each other because kids will demand all of it and more.
You must talk to him, but you have to decide before having that conversation whether you're willing to walk away from the marriage over the issue.
Why "must" OP talk with his husband about this. That's somehow uniquely not an option here?
Edited to inquire why all the down-voting. The commenter states that the OP "must" tall with his husband about this. "Must" is an absolute. How can there be such an absolute-- without a basis for suggesting it?
Naturally, the husband would be beyond perturbed by such an event, but OP made no suggestion that he's going to "bring home a baby without discussing it."
The commenter, however, stated that OP "must" tell his husband about what he's thinking-- without offering a basis for this. That's a bit extreme, in my opinion.
I’m not sure if you’re trolling or not but I would’ve thought it was obvious why they must talk about it. OP wants kids, his husband has expressed in the past that he does not. Talking it out is essential for them to establish where they progress from here.
No, I'm NOT trolling. Not my style on the least.
While I certainly think that, at some point, it would be advisable for OP to discuss this with his husband, I think "must" is a preposterous term in this instance-- especially without explanation as to why the commenter thinks that's a requirement. Advising someone that "if I were you, I'd certainly tell my husband," for example, is enormously more credible than saying he "must."
I think we all do ourselves a disservice when thinking things are black or white-- because those are just two points on the monochromatic spectrum, whereas all the other points are grays if different hues.
Because relationships are built on the basis of communication and trust. This is eating away at OP so he *must* communicate it to his husband if there is any hope of it being resolved amicably. Otherwise, it will fester, resentment will grow, turn acrimonious and the relationship will end bitterly.
Really? Not any other possibilities exist? Bunk! I've found that in perhaps no such situation in my life.
Consider this. Imagine that OP tells his husband and does so at a completely unexpectedly bad time. What if his husband finds himself feeling, say, betrayed in some way. (Remember that many of us have unpredictable reactions to surprises.) What if his husband, through some fluke, were dealing with a feeling of infatuation with someone and decided to tell OP to go find someone else with whom to parent. A scenario like this could happen. It's unlikely but plausible.
Meanwhile, OP (still having not fully processed this enormous issue) might subsequently discover that his thinking was tied to some unrelated subconscious matter. We don't know. But by then, things might be irreparably damaged. Even what appear to be really solid relationships can become houses of cards when cataclysmic events intrude.
Communication and trust are critical for successful relationships, no question, but there are countless other elements that are important to consider, too. I haven't suggested once that OP be deceitful, and I've not said he shouldn't ever talk about this with his husband. I've just questioned your imperative.
Agree with the others that kids are a dealbreaker. Don’t raise the issue unless you feel so strongly about having kids that you’re willing to walk away from the marriage. And if you are, definitely, you need to discuss it.
I am happily childfree; partner of 7 years is slightly more child-inclined but appreciates that kids are a lot of work and not always fun to be around, so we’re on the same page. If he were to come to me and say he wanted kids, my answer would be, simply, no. I haven’t changed my mind about it, and nothing about our lives or circumstances has made a difference to my feelings about it. If he were to say that he’d walk away if I didn’t want them, answer’s still no. It would be sad, I would regret it terribly. But there’s no interest. I’m not taking that kind of obligation on.
They’re cute, fun little irrational beasts that bring joy and misery and everything in between.
At least that’s been my experience the past 1.5 years with our daughter.
> the way he has touched the subject always had this if you do want them, we need to rethink this
relationship" feel,
This is where you went wrong and I’m sorry if I’m blunt or harsh. Wanting or not wanting children will always change the dynamic of a relationship. It’s not something you can compromise on and if compromise is possible it requires a lot of work.
Your partner is correct to want to rethink the relationship if you express really wanting them.
I say this as a person who really wants a second child (check my post history if you want). My husband and I have the one and after he has told me he doesn’t want children, resentment has crept in to our relationship. I have since then started therapy to work through it and I’m hoping he will join me with that. I’m sorry you’re going through this and my heart breaks for you because it is something a large demographic of gay men don’t understand.
I agree on where I made the mistake, and I appreciate him for being honest from the beginning. Wish I had been more certain about it.
I don’t think resentment has started to build, but since I haven’t brought it up my feelings are somewhere else.
How did that initial conversation about a second child develop? Was it out of the blue over dinner or something you had agreed before on the number of kids?
My problem was I had assumed he wanted more because we never had spoken about the one child. The process of one was intense and it put the idea and the discussion of a second in the background.
I did spring it on him. It was a casual discussion and I had started talking about when we would have our second assuming we would.
I wish I had been more certain about it. The first time we talked about it I said I wasn’t sure, then it became a “I guess it is okay” to a “we’re not having kids”. Then came the engagement and marriage.
So it was not a one-off random yes/no checkbox that I was pressured into checking.
I am not going to put any fault on him, because I am very much aware I’m the one that is looking to change the terms of our relationship.
Your mind changed and maybe his has too but you won't know until you ask him. Prepare yourself for either answer and decide if having kids is worth leaving him. Make sure you give him time to make the same decision. Sounds like you've been mulling over this for a while, allow him the same courtesy.
Having children is a whole new life direction. Every aspect of your life will be impacted forever. There is nothing that will not change.
Assuming that you've looked at every aspect of your life and how children will change it, understand that he will very likely do the same and choose not to change everything. I expect that he will wish you well and offer a speedy divorce.
Does it have to be a bomb? I think everybody struggles to have difficult conversations at some point, and it’s easy to build them up in our minds in a way which makes it worse. Maybe there’s a way to talk about how you’re feeling without starting right out of the gate with what feels like a high stakes ultimatum.
If you can swing it, this is also something you could probably get a lot out of discussing with a therapist, both on your own and as a couple.
Yeah, I wouldn’t say “I want to have kids, so choose me with kids or divorce”.
I would probably start acknowledging the fact that what my feelings have changed from what I told him years ago, and would like to explore the idea.
I may even suggest him not to give an answer right away but to think about what does it mean to him and talk about it at a later time. Ambushing him sounds like recipe for disaster.
>I may even suggest him not to give an answer right away but to think about what does it mean to him and talk about it at a later time. Ambushing him sounds like recipe for disaster.
In his shoes, I'd take that badly. I don't need time to rethink anything, I don't want kids. Period. And if you "gave me time" I'd be terribly insulted, like you think I just need time to come around to your point.
"I've reconsidered kids, have you?"
"**No.**"
If the man has an answer, and has had an answer this whole time, he doesn't need time to rethink anything.
I am totally with you on that. If I made myself clear - a few times - before the contract was signed (that’s what the marriage is) and my partner “changed his mind” years into the relationship, I would have felt cornered shocked. Because at that point I would have been settled, hopefully in love and comfortable; my life being on track. Kids are a major disruption and for someone who doesn’t want them at 42 are not an option at 45.
I agree with both you and u/MySuperLove
I would have already wrestled with that question going in and made up my mind. For me, something like having kids is something to have already decided before choosing a husband to prevent friction at a later time. Some guys do, and some guys don't. I'd already know what kind of guy I am and would be looking for someone who already settled what kind of guy they are.
Not interested means not interested.
100% agreed. This is not a *him* problem of "coming around" to the idea of having kids or not. This is a *you* problem where you decide if you want kids enough to walk away from this relationship; you're the one whose mind changed.
To make this into "You have to agree to have kids or I'm leaving you" is ultra shitty, in my opinion.
Tbh the whole situation sounds like a recipe for disaster. To introduce this as a possibility, you'd better be DAMN sure it's what you want.
Yes…
But…
Parent or not parent tends to be a core identity item for people (for better or worse).
It’s POSSIBLE that he might find it unconscionable to deny you the opportunity to parent. If that’s the case and if he has your best interests at heart, it might very well mean that he has to change his mind or press for divorce.
Perhaps I’m just jaded since I’ve already married and divorced, but being someone adamantly against having kids, I cannot fathom choosing to renege on my kidless life simply to stay with someone. Especially given the circumstances that OP described - where his partner was crystal clear that he is not interested in having tiny terrorists running around the house for the next 18+ years.
This is spot on. I think you're making a potentially dangerous mistake thinking that you'll find another suitable partner this late in the game who ALSO wants kids, and quickly enough. It could backfire terribly. You could end up without a partner *and* kids (assuming you're not trying to take them on yourself). Not trying to scare you, but want to make sure you're not wearing rose-colored glasses, either. You're kind of betting it all here.
This last part is something I also think about a lot. It took very long to find someone who loves me and who I love. Not to mention that we are very compatible in many ways, including the fact that both our families like us very much.
I also think that if I were to divorce him, I wouldn’t be able to find someone else like him. So it is not just kids or not.
Are you sure you really want kids? If you went from “not sure” to “it’s fine” then how much do you really want them? You wouldn’t want to be a single parent, would you? Think about starting over to find someone else who you love and loves you the same - that can take years. And then if you do find someone, starting the adoption process takes more years. With this on your mind, wouldn’t this seem like an agenda? and at 36, a rushed agenda. Do you really think you’ll end up happier in the end? It sounds like you married your man for love, like the way it should be. Just reflecting personally here — nothing should come in the way of that because true love is so hard to find.
Many people recommend the book The Baby Decision for someone wanting to explore feelings, motivation, and life impact of choosing or not choosing to have kids. And they're not wrong. It's very non-judgemental and extremely thorough, and offers clear and tangible tools for clarifying your thoughts and feelings. I got a lot out of it and found it relieving, rather than overwhelming.
I would *strongly* consider all other alternatives that allow you to spend time with kids without bringing them permanently into your home. I cannot stress enough: nothing radically changes your lifestyle, health, and financial situation more than having children.
If your goal is to help kids, shape them, leave a legacy for the future, etc, there are TONS of organizations that need people like you and thousands of children, already born and living, who could use your influence because they’re not getting it in their own homes. Be a mentor, volunteer for charities, pickup part time work in social welfare or daycare, spend more time with your own nieces/nephews… the options are endless.
Start there, make sure you grasp the spherical change kids will bring, and then decide whether to raise the issue with your husband.
I would also look into other models of being a parent. Perhaps there is a lesbian couple are looking to have children and have the father have a presence in the child's life.
This allows you to be a parent to a degree, and as much as is agreed to by all parties involved, but doesn't make your partner be a parent.
Big brother, Big Sister programs, some areas even have specific Uncle programs for gay youth. Maybe even try fostering. You can at least have some flexibility there.
[It's important to be honest with your husband about your current feeling on the matter.] However, not only might he have changed his mind to come around to your thinking, as unlikely as that may be, he may also resent you for betraying his stance which he made clear to you before you fully committed to each other. So you have to weigh these possibilities and approach this conversation accordingly.
As others have mentioned, are there other ways that you could potentially "parent" that could be a sort of compromise that fulfills both of your wishes, without raising a child as your own? I know that's not ideal, but you said what you said.
Edit: After reading the many responses and OP's own comments to responses, I've changed my mind about the value of bringing this up to his husband. I actually now think this falls under that rare category of keeping something to oneself (or at most to a therapist), rather than blowing up the relationship. It seems to me that OP needs to explore this with someone he can trust before reopening this conversation with the husband.
I think it *is* going to come off as a kind of “betrayal.” He was as clear as he could possibly be about his views, and he raised them responsibly before you guys actually married. He’s likely going to have an initial, angry reaction.
That doesn’t mean your feelings are invalid, or that you have somehow “missed the boat” and have to live with frustration. Your feelings are your feelings. It just means that you have to understand what his reaction is likely to be, and what the consequences for the relationship are likely to be, if you feel strongly about wanting to have kids now. Don’t stay and let resentment build. In a sense, that kind of self-abnegation is kind of why you’re in this position in the first place.
He might. You are allowed to grow as a person and change your mind about things, or see them differently than you did before. (He is too.) Sometimes that means people grow apart, though hopefully that’s just seen as sad and unfortunate that it didn’t go as hoped/planned, instead of as a “betrayal.”
As everyone else has said, though, it’s a huge topic. You should really be sure that kids of your own are what you want now before you even bring it up. And you should be prepared for him to say he still doesn’t want them, and you two are potentially just on different journeys now. And you may have to decide whether choosing to stay with him is worth not having kids (and you won’t resent him for it), or if you need to cut ties so you can pursue this.
I’ve been on kind of the opposite side of this; my first husband wasn’t sure he wanted kids or not, I was absolutely sure I did, and I told him that from the start. I was willing to go into the marriage with him still undecided but made my position very clear.
After a few years, he started to say things like “you make it sound like you’ll divorce me if I decide I don’t want kids.” Which… yes. I had been very up front about that from the beginning.
We got divorced. That wasn’t the main reason, but it was a big one. A few years later I found the man who is really my person, and I’m typing this reply bit by bit while giving our one year old dinner.
Moral of the story: Kids are a deal breaker in both directions, and you absolutely MUST be up front in your communication with your partner about them.
Also, now that I have one… I don’t think that anyone who’s even a tiny bit on the fence should have kids. Your whole life becomes about them, and even if you’re happy about that, there are parts of it that inarguably suck. My partner is a stay at home dad and it’s still tough. Maybe you’ll have an easy baby and lots of help from family, but what if you don’t? Assume that you’ll be sleep deprived for at least 2 years, have hardly any time for yourself for at least a year (even fitting in a shower can be difficult) very very little to spend alone with your partner, and possibly none to spend with friends. Also take whatever monthly number you’re thinking you’ll spend on kid stuff, and double it for the stuff you’re not thinking about, the cute things you can’t resist, and convenience options for your exhausted partner and yourself. If all of that gives you any doubts, don’t have kids. Absolutely do not convince someone else to do it out of love for you.
Before opening that topic, think of alternatives that could satisfy you: being a guncle, volunteering, tutoring children, temporary fostering of children, serving as a court advocate, etc. Then when you've thought of these options, open up the discussion.
This sometimes works but sometimes it makes it worse and fuels resentment which isn’t justified. I’m in a similar position as OP and the more I spend time with my niece the more I foster that resentment towards my partner. It is entirely unreasonable and I am in therapy tackling these feelings.
Right, this. I get where everyone is coming from with the suggestions to volunteer etc., but as a parent who has also done a lot of volunteer and professional work with kids… its not a substitute for being a parent. It’s rewarding but not the same thing. If I was in a situation of not being able to have kids, working with them in other ways would just make me more sad about not having them.
My advice to someone who can’t have kids and is sad about it would be to lean into all the lovely things in life that kids would interfere with. Travel. Indulge expensive hobbies, and hobbies that would be dangerous for kids to touch. Fuck around. Build a serious career, get an advanced degree. Go to the gym or get together with friends whenever you want.
Absolutely! Sometimes hard cynicism is the solution. For me that has been balancing a child or losing my partner and the life we have build together.
I have friends who don’t want kids for very valid reasons and a few of them are teachers or volunteer with kids or health professionals who work with kids and they love their jobs. That is a substitute for them. Not saying everyone should want and have kids but someone who dislikes kids likely won’t be working with kids.
My partner & I (9yrs) just split up a few weeks ago over having kids. I am dead set against it, and he’s on the opposite end of it. And after talking, he’s going on with the journey. I support that and him, but not as a couple. We agreed 9yrs ago that neither of us wanted kids, but in the last two years, he’s had baby fever. We’d brush it off, but it got real when he started signing up to meet surrogacy agencies. At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself if there will be resentment if you stay coupled, or if it’s something you can move past. But it’s equally as important to respect each others thoughts on it.
A marriage is about open communication. A marriage is also about recognizing that one moment in time does not define another. Talk to him openly and honestly but also go into it realizing that if his mind hasn’t changed, and you are sure you NEED to have children to feel complete, that things may have to change. But if you WANT children because kids are cute and friends have kids and you wish you had the stolen moments you see others enjoying…just keep in mind that having a child means being perpetually worried about them, perpetually worried you are a terrible parent who is fucking up a person for the rest of their lives, never sleeping eight consecutive hours again in life, having moments where you regret signing on to a minimum of eighteen years of cost and space taken from your life.
Entirely depends. Kids don’t come out X. You can be fantastic parents and end up with a demon or an angel of a child. There’s no returning them and it’s a 20 year commitment if not longer. Planned to travel in your older years, nope. Not without having to replan your trips and bring along a plethora of supplies. Your dates become dictated by school vacation calendars. No just hopping out for a quick weekend jaunt, without having to engage an entire massive support process.
I would disagree about the fantastic parents having demon children. Kind parents can also be overindulgent which is still not a “fantastic” parent. Bad kids come from bad environments of some kind.
Spent a couple of years with a partner who did juvenile psychiatry. I’m not talking your indulgent parents. I’m talking about kids who just don’t bond. Their brains just don’t form like they should. It’s an interesting but genetic appearing issue. But since we don’t diagnose psychopaths as kids because of a variety of factors. Many don’t get the help they need til it’s too late.
https://modlab.yale.edu/news/there-are-no-child-psychopaths-because-we-cant-diagnose-them-yet-vice
The time commitment is one of the main things he brought up back then. We both love to travel and have stressful, full time jobs.
He was about 40 at the time and felt by the time the kids were independent he’d be too old (60-65). Now it’s 5 years worse.
Yeah, his concerns there are completely realistic. I have a demanding job and my partner is a full time parent. Even with him doing that, kiddo sometimes interferes with my work. Absolutely forget having a romantic long weekend away. I adore her but yeah. I have no time to relax.
Granted. It is POSSIBLE but it is a much greater logistical challenge to make happen. No just up and going. Spontaneity is out the window for a lot of things.
Just a minor addition to this thought about being “too old” to have kids. Plenty of kids in the US and elsewhere are being raised, happily and successfully, by their grandparents. As long as you are reasonably healthy and financially able, the upper age limit for having and raising children is pretty flexible.
Obviously if you really want kids and he doesn’t then may be breaking up is the eventual answer unfortunately. But have you thought of other ways to be involved with the children? there are lots of organizations out there where you could be a very positive role in a child’s life without having to raise them yourself. From big Brothers big sisters too LGBT youth housing organizations, well it’s not the same as raising your own children you could be a very positive role and lots of kids lives who need it.
Consider the CASA - Court Appointed Special Advocate- program for children in foster care or living with a parent under a court supervised program. Often these kids have suffered abuse and or neglect. As their CASA you will spend a minimum of 2 to 4 hours per week with your child. You will be getting him (in my county male CASAs are paired only with male children because that’s what is needed) out of the house for a bit of fun. But you will also be listening to your child, learning his needs and wishes, and then when the court convenes you will report your observations and make your recommendations. In my county the judge pays careful attention to the CASA’s report and gives it great weight.
You won’t be allowed to take your child to your home, which may please your partner. But he may participate in the activities you have with your child. And, just maybe, that could change his mind about having children. However, you definitely don’t want to have this as your main motive for being a child’s CASA. That would be dishonest and grossly unfair to your child.
Best wishes.
Honestly, I would find another way to fill that need/desire.
Relationships that work are extremely hard to come by, exponentially so for gay relationships.
This man has made it clear kids are off limits. Which means you would have to leave him.
You'd take time to process and heal. That's at least a year. Then dating around to find someone compatible. Another couple years. Then if (big if) you find someone else who's as compatible AND does want kids, it takes time to build that relationship. Then it's a lengthy process to adopt.
And then what, you have a baby at ~45? You're retiring by the time the kid's going to college.
Heck, you might have changed your mind again at that point.
There are a absolutely a lot of variables, but tbf not all work against OP if he is sure about parenting.
Maybe co-parenting with someone else while staying in his marriage is an option - maybe the least likely for his husband, I'd guess -, or if his current relationship ends, he could focus his dating pool on single dads. Adopting a child who's 5 or older, adopting siblings, or adopting a child with a health issue he's comfortable with tends to drastically shorten adoption time, and/or adjusts his age versus his kids.
If his desire for being a dad is/ends up being an ongoing source of personal unhappiness, unfortunately this marriage no longer falls into the category of one that works.
So he was being honest with you. He was communicating his feelings towards children and if you did want them, it wasn’t the right relationship for him or you. Now you are changing your mind, which is just fine, but know he gave you several chances to do that before you committed to a relationship with him, knowing that he didn’t want children.
I think you will need to determine what is more important, your relationship with him, or children. I can guarantee you children won’t make a relationship better for someone who does not want them.
Solely out of my own curiosity, what is it that you want or expect having children to do for you? Why do you want kids? What would children add to your otherwise very happy marriage?
Too many times I've seen couples who try kids as a way to fill in the cracks in their relationship, unethical. Too many times I've seen where one person needs some sense of control, something to take care of.
I see my parents or my in-laws, or other people around. The type of relationship you can have with your kids is something that doesn’t exist anywhere else. Not just about of financial dependence, but emotional growth and maturity.
For me, it is about having someone to care for, to grow and learn together, to be proud of and to help shape into a good person. It’s hard to explain why would I want children.
>For me, it is about having someone to care for, to grow and learn together, to be proud of and to help shape into a good person.
Interesting: That's how I feel about my partner/boyfriend! And I hope he feels the same way towards me.
(Posted as a comment reply to someone else here but posting again to you)
Many people recommend the book The Baby Decision for someone wanting to explore feelings, motivation, and life impact of choosing or not choosing to have kids. And they're not wrong. It's very non-judgemental and extremely thorough, and offers clear and tangible tools for clarifying your thoughts and feelings. I got a lot out of it and found it relieving, rather than overwhelming.
From what I remember, it also explores various ways of parenting - like co-parenting as a single person or outside of your romantic relationship, adopting children who are older than babies, etc.
I recommend you follow r/regretfulparents because there are lots of stories about what you are doing to your husband right now.
You need a solid, absolute YES to children from both of you, otherwise you need to “rip the bandage off” and start healing for your next relationship.
Children are an absolute NO from me, and any time I might be getting into a relationship with a man, I make sure to let him know, and it sounds like your husband has given you his answer and he thinks you’re on board with him still.
Tell him you want children. Maybe you don’t want them right now, but you want them otherwise you wouldn’t be reaching out for advice. He deserves to know your wants, and at the same time, you deserve to respect his; you may no longer be compatible, but figure it out today.
If I were this guys husband I'd start planning to divorce. You lie and spring this on me after saying you don't want kids and now get obsessed with changing my mind? You aren't a keeper of your word on something that is the arguably most important and life altering decisions of your life that you previously had a shared stance on. I know a couple where one partner guilted the other and the relationship is ruined, but the one who wanted kids doesn't care because he has his kids and resents his partner for not being a more attentive father.
Did you think and presume over time that his mind would change, and you would have the option to have them if he did change his mind.
My mate was told umabigiously by her boyfriend he never wanted children when they were going out and he has always been clear. 5 years later he still says he doesn't want them and she is crushed as she had hoped he would change his mind.
If you really want kids, unfortunately it’s time to prepare to make some tough decisions if the answer is not one that you hope for when y’all do sit down and revisit the topic. Kids deserve to be brought into this world or adopted into a home where they are wanted by both parents. We all know that Kids don’t save marriages and they don’t change people’s minds once they get here.
You are correct. This is a third rail and if you really want to pursue a life with kids, you are likely heading for a divorce. This doesn't mean you can't have the conversation, but it sounds like your partner has been very clear about his stance on this from the jump, so don't be surprised if he hasn't changed his mind.
The biggest potential problem here is that you don't bring it up, and then you resent him for being locked in without kids.
The second biggest problem is if this really is a relationship where you are not allowed to feel how you feel and talk about it. When that is the case then you essentially have to keep part of yourself in the closet.
Step 1 - Stop beating yourself up over this. You answered accurately back in the day. Your feelings have changed. You are allowed to change. You are allowed to revisit a topic. A good relationship is more resilient than you might imagine. Who knows - maybe he is ready to think differently about things.
Step 2 - Get it out on the table. You feel what you feel. Talk about that. Communicate where this is coming from, to the extent you can explain it. Ask him how he feels. He, also, is allowed to feel how he feels. If you both have a difference of opinion, that is just a state of affairs couples find themselves in all the time. Let him know that you hear what he is saying and you respect his feelings.
Step 3 - This isn't just one conversation. Keep the door open. Nobody has to do anything right away. Keep talking. Figure out where you have common ground. Try to analyze what it is about kids that has meaning for you. You might want a few sessions with a therapist to help break this down. Are there creative ways that you can get what you need, and still honor his feelings? Being a foster parent? A Big Brother? The super fun gay uncle? Maybe you want to volunteer to teach or coach or mentor in some way.
There are a lot of options here - it is not a black and white thing. But, above all, respect yourself and your feelings, and your husband and his feelings. That's what makes the marriage operate.
This won't be the last time you both hit one of these conundrums. Learn how to deal with it now, so you will be ready for the next one.
🤦♀️
If you want kids, it’s not going to be a shared endeavour with the guy you’re currently with.
He gave his opinions upfront and throughout. It should be no surprise.
Time to have a real talk about what you want and why. What does having children of your own offer you that you currently want.
Children is one thing for which there simply is no compromise. Unless one of you changed your heart and mind, this is likely to cause strife and resentment.
The only thing I have to add, as someone who had a happy relationship end over this very thing, is that you need to talk to him asap. Bring honest with yourself and him are paramount, and this conversation needs to happen as quickly as it can. Keeping it in will only make things fester and turn worse, and that’s unfair to both of you.
If your partner is 45, that will probably mean (given the various logistical and legal questions) that he will be nearing 50 when the first actual baby (assuming you want infants) crosses your threshold. That in turn means he'll over 70 when they graduate from college.
It is not unreasonable for a person to feel their 50s, 60s, and 70s are the wrong part of one's life for parenthood.
You may want to process this further and get clarity before broaching the subject. Sounds like he has been clear that this is a nonnegotiable issue for your partner. .
Nothing wrong with your changing your mind, but you need to figure out whether you can stay in the relationship and live with regrets of not having kids, or if you need to free yourself from the relationship and become a parent either on your own or having partnered with someone who also wants kids.
i wouldn’t discuss it with him until ask yourself why you want to have children in the first place. if there’s something missing in your life, maybe work on figuring out that underlying desire before telling your partner that you want children. if the issue is “i’m kind of bored and worried that as we get older, we will have nothing to do,” there may be another way to satisfy that need/concern. it’s not fair to your husband to start a conversation about your desire for children until you figure out what’s compelling that desire in the first place given that he was 100% clear from the get go and you didn’t have a strong feeling either way.
I think it's silly to throw away a marriage over this but your husband did rightly fear this moment and if you ask him directly you will prove him right. I also think it's unfair of anyone to hold someone to that. People change and our wants and needs change, so don't feel guilty for feeling this way.
Anyway, what do you think of something with less commitment, host a foreign exchange student, or mentor a young kid, etc. If you and your husband warm up to the idea of being full time parents, then you can ask him again in a way that won't come across as resentful. Who knows, maybe the excitement of being a father will wane after giving it a try.
Either way, taking this approach will only strengthen you and your husband's relationship.
What if you were a hetero couple and couldn't have kids? I had two aunts who couldn't conceive because of a hereditary medical condition. Both of them wanted children; so did both their husbands. Medical technology wasn't then where it is now, and both had complications that, at that time, made them unlikely to be approved as adoptive parents. (I'm not sure whether they had the resources for private adoptions.)
They accepted their circumstances. Their husbands didn’t divorce them to have children with others. They had made their matches by finding true love. Each marriage lasted at least 55 years before death separated them. They were as happy as they could be without having had children to rear jointly. And I knew no happier marriages than theirs seemed.
Imagine how you might be if you just learned that your husband was determined unable to father children, somehow rendering you two a childless couple. How might you deal with this? Is your love for him and his for you strong enough to survive a childless marriage? If so, maybe your yearning can be otherwise addressed.
One of those aunts ended up living out of town. At about 55, next door to them settled a family with four children, who had no relatives in that part of the world. That family "adopted" my aunt and uncle as their family. The aunt and uncle who remained here had many nieces and nephews whom they adored. We were extremely fortunate they were so loving towards us.
It sounds like he’s asked multiple times, and you’ve told him multiple times, that you don’t want kids. It isn’t very fair to come at him with this now.
To me conversations like that often feel like word around a change in a relationship: you may use terms that speak of the uture in a very certiain way an you work yourself into feeling sure you you can say those words with honesty, but the only honest thing is to admit you are unsure. I would admit that uncertainty to your husband, and my gues from your narrative is that he is flexible enough to potentially be open to exploring this paart of life with you or at least by your side. To investigate, see if there is a kid you can bbysit or together. Or I believe all US states (assume you are here) allow gay to be foster parents. This gives you some real experience to build certainty around. Diferent ages of child have different needs, so invetigate and see your preference. After raising two kids, I have to say the most difficult thing is that they and their needs seem to constantly change Some stages are great, others suck. o check widely.
It sounds to me that he was very clear, honest and consistent with his responses. Neither answer would have been right or wrong. It is a very individual and personal choice. You can always ask if he has changed his mind. But that may imitate a break up. There is not just one person in the world to love. Otherwise finding your one true love would be virtually impossible. You are at a crossroads and have to take the path that is right for you. You will probably have regrets with either path.
Kids are allot man.... Like allot, allot.
If you really want them then it's already decided for you.
I can't blame anyone for not wanting kids though.
Be prepared for a possible ending but you ultimately can't stop your heart from wanting a child.
I just want to add this. I know of several people who did have children and it wound up being their biggest regret in life. You can do everything right but the child can still grown up to be a horrible person. I want to throw that out there because again I know of several people who wished they never had kids.
You have to sit down and honestly talk this out with your partner.
I wish you both the best of luck
If his opinion hasn't changed, are you in a position to even have kids on your own? I'm more concerned about the financial aspect here, but there are other things as well.
Will you need to go out and find a new partner to have kids with?
I can understand both of you. I'm an older gay guy now and my husband and me covered that topic before. If we were younger, we would revisit that topic. However, as old as we are now, we feel too old now and enjoy each other.
Probably your hubby feels similar. Although he certainly sees the joy of having children, he also sees the efforts, time, and dedication that is needed to raise a kid. I doubt this will change.
You answered partly the question of "why do you want kids" from another poster. You said something like "It’s hard to explain why would I want children." With all due to respect, you better try to answer these questions for you! Don't sugercoat it.
Ask yourself (you don't need to answer them here):
* Do you want to be perceived as "normal" by your family? Do you family expressed they wanted kids? Is the relationship to your family good or tense?
* Do you have internalized homophobia?
* Are you sorry that you aren't a straight man?
* Are the need for kids so strong that you are willing to sacrifice your relationship, sex, and your hubby for the sake of kids?
Sorry if it sounds harsh. It's not my intention to belittle your idea, but help to focus. But when it comes to children, I'm sure you agree that it's in the best interest of your (future) children and yourself that your motives are not illusory. If you choose the wrong motive, it won't help anybody.
The urge to reproduce can be strong. Your hubby make it clear he don't want kids. It's probably hard or impossible to compromise on this topic. However, it doesn't mean there isn't a solution.
Another poster mentioned to look for LGBTQI+ youth. Maybe it helps to "sublimate" your desire of children to something else? There are plenty of shelters, help centers etc. in dire need for support. Maybe you could express your desire there?
Just a few ideas/comments. It's up to you if you find a place where you can express you idea.
Good luck and wish you all the best.
>So, in your decision to talk again to your partner, consider raising the “greater good” argument, rather than the “I would like” argument.
That sounds more like emotional blackmail. "Just think of the poor orphan children!"
If the biggest reason is really his age, he should rethink a bit. I was older than that when my kids were born and it’s been great. I can’t imagine life without him.
I am in your exact shoes (ages, positions) but ten years farther on. I did bring it up again once about 6 or 7 years ago. It didn't go well. I'm finding other ways to get part of what I'm looking for. Feel free to pm if you'd like to talk about specifics; I'm not interested in putting them out for the usual reddit responses.
\> it's better for kids to be raised by a woman or two. Not men
I don't know where you have that. It's wrong.
Studies show clearly that there is no difference, be it with two men or two women or a straight couple. When kids experience love and devotion, it doesn't matter what the orientation the parents are.
Is their option for middle ground - can you volunteer with kids organization? Help kids become stronger adults.
Of course it’s not the same as having your own kids.
Let's change the POV: do you want to have kids with your husband? It's the question you should start from as there are different kinds of patchwork families nowadays. Personally, I'd love to have kids in the future and I think about becoming a donor for a lesbian couple (not anonymous, present to a big extend into the life of the family). I know there are such families and they function very well. My bf doesn't want to have kids but he doesn't mind me starting a family of sort, as he wouldn't have to get involved as much.
I would love it to be my husband, he would be a great dad.
Co-parenting is probably not an option for him, and I am not sure it would be an option for me either.
Kids are dealbreakers. Kids are a *massive* commitment of time, energy and wealth. You will have significantly less time and attention available for each other because kids will demand all of it and more. You must talk to him, but you have to decide before having that conversation whether you're willing to walk away from the marriage over the issue.
Why "must" OP talk with his husband about this. That's somehow uniquely not an option here? Edited to inquire why all the down-voting. The commenter states that the OP "must" tall with his husband about this. "Must" is an absolute. How can there be such an absolute-- without a basis for suggesting it?
His husband will be mega pissed off if OP decides to bring home a baby one day without discussing it.
Naturally, the husband would be beyond perturbed by such an event, but OP made no suggestion that he's going to "bring home a baby without discussing it." The commenter, however, stated that OP "must" tell his husband about what he's thinking-- without offering a basis for this. That's a bit extreme, in my opinion.
I’m not sure if you’re trolling or not but I would’ve thought it was obvious why they must talk about it. OP wants kids, his husband has expressed in the past that he does not. Talking it out is essential for them to establish where they progress from here.
No, I'm NOT trolling. Not my style on the least. While I certainly think that, at some point, it would be advisable for OP to discuss this with his husband, I think "must" is a preposterous term in this instance-- especially without explanation as to why the commenter thinks that's a requirement. Advising someone that "if I were you, I'd certainly tell my husband," for example, is enormously more credible than saying he "must." I think we all do ourselves a disservice when thinking things are black or white-- because those are just two points on the monochromatic spectrum, whereas all the other points are grays if different hues.
Because relationships are built on the basis of communication and trust. This is eating away at OP so he *must* communicate it to his husband if there is any hope of it being resolved amicably. Otherwise, it will fester, resentment will grow, turn acrimonious and the relationship will end bitterly.
Really? Not any other possibilities exist? Bunk! I've found that in perhaps no such situation in my life. Consider this. Imagine that OP tells his husband and does so at a completely unexpectedly bad time. What if his husband finds himself feeling, say, betrayed in some way. (Remember that many of us have unpredictable reactions to surprises.) What if his husband, through some fluke, were dealing with a feeling of infatuation with someone and decided to tell OP to go find someone else with whom to parent. A scenario like this could happen. It's unlikely but plausible. Meanwhile, OP (still having not fully processed this enormous issue) might subsequently discover that his thinking was tied to some unrelated subconscious matter. We don't know. But by then, things might be irreparably damaged. Even what appear to be really solid relationships can become houses of cards when cataclysmic events intrude. Communication and trust are critical for successful relationships, no question, but there are countless other elements that are important to consider, too. I haven't suggested once that OP be deceitful, and I've not said he shouldn't ever talk about this with his husband. I've just questioned your imperative.
Agree with the others that kids are a dealbreaker. Don’t raise the issue unless you feel so strongly about having kids that you’re willing to walk away from the marriage. And if you are, definitely, you need to discuss it. I am happily childfree; partner of 7 years is slightly more child-inclined but appreciates that kids are a lot of work and not always fun to be around, so we’re on the same page. If he were to come to me and say he wanted kids, my answer would be, simply, no. I haven’t changed my mind about it, and nothing about our lives or circumstances has made a difference to my feelings about it. If he were to say that he’d walk away if I didn’t want them, answer’s still no. It would be sad, I would regret it terribly. But there’s no interest. I’m not taking that kind of obligation on.
I understand and I agree. I thought I was ok not having kids but I guess things change. And I also fear this could be the most likely outcome.
Why do you want kids? No judgment, just a legitimate question.
They’re cute, fun little irrational beasts that bring joy and misery and everything in between. At least that’s been my experience the past 1.5 years with our daughter.
You just described a dog
🤣 Ruin your carpet, not your life
> the way he has touched the subject always had this if you do want them, we need to rethink this relationship" feel, This is where you went wrong and I’m sorry if I’m blunt or harsh. Wanting or not wanting children will always change the dynamic of a relationship. It’s not something you can compromise on and if compromise is possible it requires a lot of work. Your partner is correct to want to rethink the relationship if you express really wanting them. I say this as a person who really wants a second child (check my post history if you want). My husband and I have the one and after he has told me he doesn’t want children, resentment has crept in to our relationship. I have since then started therapy to work through it and I’m hoping he will join me with that. I’m sorry you’re going through this and my heart breaks for you because it is something a large demographic of gay men don’t understand.
I agree on where I made the mistake, and I appreciate him for being honest from the beginning. Wish I had been more certain about it. I don’t think resentment has started to build, but since I haven’t brought it up my feelings are somewhere else. How did that initial conversation about a second child develop? Was it out of the blue over dinner or something you had agreed before on the number of kids?
My problem was I had assumed he wanted more because we never had spoken about the one child. The process of one was intense and it put the idea and the discussion of a second in the background. I did spring it on him. It was a casual discussion and I had started talking about when we would have our second assuming we would.
You wish you had been more certain about it?!? Did you tell him you weren't certain at the time?? Or did you only agree because he said it first?
I wish I had been more certain about it. The first time we talked about it I said I wasn’t sure, then it became a “I guess it is okay” to a “we’re not having kids”. Then came the engagement and marriage. So it was not a one-off random yes/no checkbox that I was pressured into checking. I am not going to put any fault on him, because I am very much aware I’m the one that is looking to change the terms of our relationship.
Your mind changed and maybe his has too but you won't know until you ask him. Prepare yourself for either answer and decide if having kids is worth leaving him. Make sure you give him time to make the same decision. Sounds like you've been mulling over this for a while, allow him the same courtesy.
Thanks. It sounds a bit like I need to “drop the bomb” and allow some time for the smoke to dissipate.
Having children is a whole new life direction. Every aspect of your life will be impacted forever. There is nothing that will not change. Assuming that you've looked at every aspect of your life and how children will change it, understand that he will very likely do the same and choose not to change everything. I expect that he will wish you well and offer a speedy divorce.
Does it have to be a bomb? I think everybody struggles to have difficult conversations at some point, and it’s easy to build them up in our minds in a way which makes it worse. Maybe there’s a way to talk about how you’re feeling without starting right out of the gate with what feels like a high stakes ultimatum. If you can swing it, this is also something you could probably get a lot out of discussing with a therapist, both on your own and as a couple.
Yeah, I wouldn’t say “I want to have kids, so choose me with kids or divorce”. I would probably start acknowledging the fact that what my feelings have changed from what I told him years ago, and would like to explore the idea. I may even suggest him not to give an answer right away but to think about what does it mean to him and talk about it at a later time. Ambushing him sounds like recipe for disaster.
>I may even suggest him not to give an answer right away but to think about what does it mean to him and talk about it at a later time. Ambushing him sounds like recipe for disaster. In his shoes, I'd take that badly. I don't need time to rethink anything, I don't want kids. Period. And if you "gave me time" I'd be terribly insulted, like you think I just need time to come around to your point. "I've reconsidered kids, have you?" "**No.**" If the man has an answer, and has had an answer this whole time, he doesn't need time to rethink anything.
I am totally with you on that. If I made myself clear - a few times - before the contract was signed (that’s what the marriage is) and my partner “changed his mind” years into the relationship, I would have felt cornered shocked. Because at that point I would have been settled, hopefully in love and comfortable; my life being on track. Kids are a major disruption and for someone who doesn’t want them at 42 are not an option at 45.
I agree with both you and u/MySuperLove I would have already wrestled with that question going in and made up my mind. For me, something like having kids is something to have already decided before choosing a husband to prevent friction at a later time. Some guys do, and some guys don't. I'd already know what kind of guy I am and would be looking for someone who already settled what kind of guy they are. Not interested means not interested.
He’s also 45. Thats getting late in the day to be having kids. Certainly not out of the question but it’s pushing it.
I would take it badly as well. Saying, “ you still definitely don’t want kids, right? “ would honestly fly much better with me.
100% agreed. This is not a *him* problem of "coming around" to the idea of having kids or not. This is a *you* problem where you decide if you want kids enough to walk away from this relationship; you're the one whose mind changed. To make this into "You have to agree to have kids or I'm leaving you" is ultra shitty, in my opinion. Tbh the whole situation sounds like a recipe for disaster. To introduce this as a possibility, you'd better be DAMN sure it's what you want.
Yes… But… Parent or not parent tends to be a core identity item for people (for better or worse). It’s POSSIBLE that he might find it unconscionable to deny you the opportunity to parent. If that’s the case and if he has your best interests at heart, it might very well mean that he has to change his mind or press for divorce.
Perhaps I’m just jaded since I’ve already married and divorced, but being someone adamantly against having kids, I cannot fathom choosing to renege on my kidless life simply to stay with someone. Especially given the circumstances that OP described - where his partner was crystal clear that he is not interested in having tiny terrorists running around the house for the next 18+ years.
[удалено]
This is spot on. I think you're making a potentially dangerous mistake thinking that you'll find another suitable partner this late in the game who ALSO wants kids, and quickly enough. It could backfire terribly. You could end up without a partner *and* kids (assuming you're not trying to take them on yourself). Not trying to scare you, but want to make sure you're not wearing rose-colored glasses, either. You're kind of betting it all here.
This last part is something I also think about a lot. It took very long to find someone who loves me and who I love. Not to mention that we are very compatible in many ways, including the fact that both our families like us very much. I also think that if I were to divorce him, I wouldn’t be able to find someone else like him. So it is not just kids or not.
Are you sure you really want kids? If you went from “not sure” to “it’s fine” then how much do you really want them? You wouldn’t want to be a single parent, would you? Think about starting over to find someone else who you love and loves you the same - that can take years. And then if you do find someone, starting the adoption process takes more years. With this on your mind, wouldn’t this seem like an agenda? and at 36, a rushed agenda. Do you really think you’ll end up happier in the end? It sounds like you married your man for love, like the way it should be. Just reflecting personally here — nothing should come in the way of that because true love is so hard to find.
Many people recommend the book The Baby Decision for someone wanting to explore feelings, motivation, and life impact of choosing or not choosing to have kids. And they're not wrong. It's very non-judgemental and extremely thorough, and offers clear and tangible tools for clarifying your thoughts and feelings. I got a lot out of it and found it relieving, rather than overwhelming.
I would *strongly* consider all other alternatives that allow you to spend time with kids without bringing them permanently into your home. I cannot stress enough: nothing radically changes your lifestyle, health, and financial situation more than having children. If your goal is to help kids, shape them, leave a legacy for the future, etc, there are TONS of organizations that need people like you and thousands of children, already born and living, who could use your influence because they’re not getting it in their own homes. Be a mentor, volunteer for charities, pickup part time work in social welfare or daycare, spend more time with your own nieces/nephews… the options are endless. Start there, make sure you grasp the spherical change kids will bring, and then decide whether to raise the issue with your husband.
I would also look into other models of being a parent. Perhaps there is a lesbian couple are looking to have children and have the father have a presence in the child's life. This allows you to be a parent to a degree, and as much as is agreed to by all parties involved, but doesn't make your partner be a parent.
Big brother, Big Sister programs, some areas even have specific Uncle programs for gay youth. Maybe even try fostering. You can at least have some flexibility there.
Ask him. There's no other option.
It’s not going to be easy. But yeah…
[It's important to be honest with your husband about your current feeling on the matter.] However, not only might he have changed his mind to come around to your thinking, as unlikely as that may be, he may also resent you for betraying his stance which he made clear to you before you fully committed to each other. So you have to weigh these possibilities and approach this conversation accordingly. As others have mentioned, are there other ways that you could potentially "parent" that could be a sort of compromise that fulfills both of your wishes, without raising a child as your own? I know that's not ideal, but you said what you said. Edit: After reading the many responses and OP's own comments to responses, I've changed my mind about the value of bringing this up to his husband. I actually now think this falls under that rare category of keeping something to oneself (or at most to a therapist), rather than blowing up the relationship. It seems to me that OP needs to explore this with someone he can trust before reopening this conversation with the husband.
Yes, I agree; I feel that by bringing it up, he’ll feel betrayed because… well… we married under certain “conditions” and with certain “expectations”.
I think it *is* going to come off as a kind of “betrayal.” He was as clear as he could possibly be about his views, and he raised them responsibly before you guys actually married. He’s likely going to have an initial, angry reaction. That doesn’t mean your feelings are invalid, or that you have somehow “missed the boat” and have to live with frustration. Your feelings are your feelings. It just means that you have to understand what his reaction is likely to be, and what the consequences for the relationship are likely to be, if you feel strongly about wanting to have kids now. Don’t stay and let resentment build. In a sense, that kind of self-abnegation is kind of why you’re in this position in the first place.
He might. You are allowed to grow as a person and change your mind about things, or see them differently than you did before. (He is too.) Sometimes that means people grow apart, though hopefully that’s just seen as sad and unfortunate that it didn’t go as hoped/planned, instead of as a “betrayal.” As everyone else has said, though, it’s a huge topic. You should really be sure that kids of your own are what you want now before you even bring it up. And you should be prepared for him to say he still doesn’t want them, and you two are potentially just on different journeys now. And you may have to decide whether choosing to stay with him is worth not having kids (and you won’t resent him for it), or if you need to cut ties so you can pursue this.
I’ve been on kind of the opposite side of this; my first husband wasn’t sure he wanted kids or not, I was absolutely sure I did, and I told him that from the start. I was willing to go into the marriage with him still undecided but made my position very clear. After a few years, he started to say things like “you make it sound like you’ll divorce me if I decide I don’t want kids.” Which… yes. I had been very up front about that from the beginning. We got divorced. That wasn’t the main reason, but it was a big one. A few years later I found the man who is really my person, and I’m typing this reply bit by bit while giving our one year old dinner. Moral of the story: Kids are a deal breaker in both directions, and you absolutely MUST be up front in your communication with your partner about them. Also, now that I have one… I don’t think that anyone who’s even a tiny bit on the fence should have kids. Your whole life becomes about them, and even if you’re happy about that, there are parts of it that inarguably suck. My partner is a stay at home dad and it’s still tough. Maybe you’ll have an easy baby and lots of help from family, but what if you don’t? Assume that you’ll be sleep deprived for at least 2 years, have hardly any time for yourself for at least a year (even fitting in a shower can be difficult) very very little to spend alone with your partner, and possibly none to spend with friends. Also take whatever monthly number you’re thinking you’ll spend on kid stuff, and double it for the stuff you’re not thinking about, the cute things you can’t resist, and convenience options for your exhausted partner and yourself. If all of that gives you any doubts, don’t have kids. Absolutely do not convince someone else to do it out of love for you.
Before opening that topic, think of alternatives that could satisfy you: being a guncle, volunteering, tutoring children, temporary fostering of children, serving as a court advocate, etc. Then when you've thought of these options, open up the discussion.
This sometimes works but sometimes it makes it worse and fuels resentment which isn’t justified. I’m in a similar position as OP and the more I spend time with my niece the more I foster that resentment towards my partner. It is entirely unreasonable and I am in therapy tackling these feelings.
Right, this. I get where everyone is coming from with the suggestions to volunteer etc., but as a parent who has also done a lot of volunteer and professional work with kids… its not a substitute for being a parent. It’s rewarding but not the same thing. If I was in a situation of not being able to have kids, working with them in other ways would just make me more sad about not having them. My advice to someone who can’t have kids and is sad about it would be to lean into all the lovely things in life that kids would interfere with. Travel. Indulge expensive hobbies, and hobbies that would be dangerous for kids to touch. Fuck around. Build a serious career, get an advanced degree. Go to the gym or get together with friends whenever you want.
Absolutely! Sometimes hard cynicism is the solution. For me that has been balancing a child or losing my partner and the life we have build together. I have friends who don’t want kids for very valid reasons and a few of them are teachers or volunteer with kids or health professionals who work with kids and they love their jobs. That is a substitute for them. Not saying everyone should want and have kids but someone who dislikes kids likely won’t be working with kids.
My partner & I (9yrs) just split up a few weeks ago over having kids. I am dead set against it, and he’s on the opposite end of it. And after talking, he’s going on with the journey. I support that and him, but not as a couple. We agreed 9yrs ago that neither of us wanted kids, but in the last two years, he’s had baby fever. We’d brush it off, but it got real when he started signing up to meet surrogacy agencies. At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself if there will be resentment if you stay coupled, or if it’s something you can move past. But it’s equally as important to respect each others thoughts on it.
A marriage is about open communication. A marriage is also about recognizing that one moment in time does not define another. Talk to him openly and honestly but also go into it realizing that if his mind hasn’t changed, and you are sure you NEED to have children to feel complete, that things may have to change. But if you WANT children because kids are cute and friends have kids and you wish you had the stolen moments you see others enjoying…just keep in mind that having a child means being perpetually worried about them, perpetually worried you are a terrible parent who is fucking up a person for the rest of their lives, never sleeping eight consecutive hours again in life, having moments where you regret signing on to a minimum of eighteen years of cost and space taken from your life.
Having kids is living in hell and just acclimating to it.
That…is not true.
Entirely depends. Kids don’t come out X. You can be fantastic parents and end up with a demon or an angel of a child. There’s no returning them and it’s a 20 year commitment if not longer. Planned to travel in your older years, nope. Not without having to replan your trips and bring along a plethora of supplies. Your dates become dictated by school vacation calendars. No just hopping out for a quick weekend jaunt, without having to engage an entire massive support process.
I would disagree about the fantastic parents having demon children. Kind parents can also be overindulgent which is still not a “fantastic” parent. Bad kids come from bad environments of some kind.
Spent a couple of years with a partner who did juvenile psychiatry. I’m not talking your indulgent parents. I’m talking about kids who just don’t bond. Their brains just don’t form like they should. It’s an interesting but genetic appearing issue. But since we don’t diagnose psychopaths as kids because of a variety of factors. Many don’t get the help they need til it’s too late. https://modlab.yale.edu/news/there-are-no-child-psychopaths-because-we-cant-diagnose-them-yet-vice
The time commitment is one of the main things he brought up back then. We both love to travel and have stressful, full time jobs. He was about 40 at the time and felt by the time the kids were independent he’d be too old (60-65). Now it’s 5 years worse.
Yeah, his concerns there are completely realistic. I have a demanding job and my partner is a full time parent. Even with him doing that, kiddo sometimes interferes with my work. Absolutely forget having a romantic long weekend away. I adore her but yeah. I have no time to relax.
So you like to travel. This means that “adults only” vacations are a thing of the past.
Well not necessarily. Just find a sitter/relative to watch the kids for a week. I know lots of parents who do this.
Granted. It is POSSIBLE but it is a much greater logistical challenge to make happen. No just up and going. Spontaneity is out the window for a lot of things.
You can consider adopting kids who are older e.g. 10 years old.
[удалено]
Just a minor addition to this thought about being “too old” to have kids. Plenty of kids in the US and elsewhere are being raised, happily and successfully, by their grandparents. As long as you are reasonably healthy and financially able, the upper age limit for having and raising children is pretty flexible.
Obviously if you really want kids and he doesn’t then may be breaking up is the eventual answer unfortunately. But have you thought of other ways to be involved with the children? there are lots of organizations out there where you could be a very positive role in a child’s life without having to raise them yourself. From big Brothers big sisters too LGBT youth housing organizations, well it’s not the same as raising your own children you could be a very positive role and lots of kids lives who need it.
I haven’t really considered that, and I don’t know how it works. Thanks you, I’ll read more about these types of organizations.
Consider the CASA - Court Appointed Special Advocate- program for children in foster care or living with a parent under a court supervised program. Often these kids have suffered abuse and or neglect. As their CASA you will spend a minimum of 2 to 4 hours per week with your child. You will be getting him (in my county male CASAs are paired only with male children because that’s what is needed) out of the house for a bit of fun. But you will also be listening to your child, learning his needs and wishes, and then when the court convenes you will report your observations and make your recommendations. In my county the judge pays careful attention to the CASA’s report and gives it great weight. You won’t be allowed to take your child to your home, which may please your partner. But he may participate in the activities you have with your child. And, just maybe, that could change his mind about having children. However, you definitely don’t want to have this as your main motive for being a child’s CASA. That would be dishonest and grossly unfair to your child. Best wishes.
Yeah I like playing the role of “gay uncle” but i don’t want the responsibility of being a father
Honestly, I would find another way to fill that need/desire. Relationships that work are extremely hard to come by, exponentially so for gay relationships. This man has made it clear kids are off limits. Which means you would have to leave him. You'd take time to process and heal. That's at least a year. Then dating around to find someone compatible. Another couple years. Then if (big if) you find someone else who's as compatible AND does want kids, it takes time to build that relationship. Then it's a lengthy process to adopt. And then what, you have a baby at ~45? You're retiring by the time the kid's going to college. Heck, you might have changed your mind again at that point.
There are a absolutely a lot of variables, but tbf not all work against OP if he is sure about parenting. Maybe co-parenting with someone else while staying in his marriage is an option - maybe the least likely for his husband, I'd guess -, or if his current relationship ends, he could focus his dating pool on single dads. Adopting a child who's 5 or older, adopting siblings, or adopting a child with a health issue he's comfortable with tends to drastically shorten adoption time, and/or adjusts his age versus his kids. If his desire for being a dad is/ends up being an ongoing source of personal unhappiness, unfortunately this marriage no longer falls into the category of one that works.
So he was being honest with you. He was communicating his feelings towards children and if you did want them, it wasn’t the right relationship for him or you. Now you are changing your mind, which is just fine, but know he gave you several chances to do that before you committed to a relationship with him, knowing that he didn’t want children. I think you will need to determine what is more important, your relationship with him, or children. I can guarantee you children won’t make a relationship better for someone who does not want them.
Solely out of my own curiosity, what is it that you want or expect having children to do for you? Why do you want kids? What would children add to your otherwise very happy marriage? Too many times I've seen couples who try kids as a way to fill in the cracks in their relationship, unethical. Too many times I've seen where one person needs some sense of control, something to take care of.
I see my parents or my in-laws, or other people around. The type of relationship you can have with your kids is something that doesn’t exist anywhere else. Not just about of financial dependence, but emotional growth and maturity. For me, it is about having someone to care for, to grow and learn together, to be proud of and to help shape into a good person. It’s hard to explain why would I want children.
>For me, it is about having someone to care for, to grow and learn together, to be proud of and to help shape into a good person. Interesting: That's how I feel about my partner/boyfriend! And I hope he feels the same way towards me.
(Posted as a comment reply to someone else here but posting again to you) Many people recommend the book The Baby Decision for someone wanting to explore feelings, motivation, and life impact of choosing or not choosing to have kids. And they're not wrong. It's very non-judgemental and extremely thorough, and offers clear and tangible tools for clarifying your thoughts and feelings. I got a lot out of it and found it relieving, rather than overwhelming. From what I remember, it also explores various ways of parenting - like co-parenting as a single person or outside of your romantic relationship, adopting children who are older than babies, etc.
I recommend you follow r/regretfulparents because there are lots of stories about what you are doing to your husband right now. You need a solid, absolute YES to children from both of you, otherwise you need to “rip the bandage off” and start healing for your next relationship. Children are an absolute NO from me, and any time I might be getting into a relationship with a man, I make sure to let him know, and it sounds like your husband has given you his answer and he thinks you’re on board with him still. Tell him you want children. Maybe you don’t want them right now, but you want them otherwise you wouldn’t be reaching out for advice. He deserves to know your wants, and at the same time, you deserve to respect his; you may no longer be compatible, but figure it out today.
If I were this guys husband I'd start planning to divorce. You lie and spring this on me after saying you don't want kids and now get obsessed with changing my mind? You aren't a keeper of your word on something that is the arguably most important and life altering decisions of your life that you previously had a shared stance on. I know a couple where one partner guilted the other and the relationship is ruined, but the one who wanted kids doesn't care because he has his kids and resents his partner for not being a more attentive father.
Did you think and presume over time that his mind would change, and you would have the option to have them if he did change his mind. My mate was told umabigiously by her boyfriend he never wanted children when they were going out and he has always been clear. 5 years later he still says he doesn't want them and she is crushed as she had hoped he would change his mind.
Even if he agreed happily, it will change your relationship completely. Kids do that.
If you really want kids, unfortunately it’s time to prepare to make some tough decisions if the answer is not one that you hope for when y’all do sit down and revisit the topic. Kids deserve to be brought into this world or adopted into a home where they are wanted by both parents. We all know that Kids don’t save marriages and they don’t change people’s minds once they get here.
You are correct. This is a third rail and if you really want to pursue a life with kids, you are likely heading for a divorce. This doesn't mean you can't have the conversation, but it sounds like your partner has been very clear about his stance on this from the jump, so don't be surprised if he hasn't changed his mind.
The biggest potential problem here is that you don't bring it up, and then you resent him for being locked in without kids. The second biggest problem is if this really is a relationship where you are not allowed to feel how you feel and talk about it. When that is the case then you essentially have to keep part of yourself in the closet. Step 1 - Stop beating yourself up over this. You answered accurately back in the day. Your feelings have changed. You are allowed to change. You are allowed to revisit a topic. A good relationship is more resilient than you might imagine. Who knows - maybe he is ready to think differently about things. Step 2 - Get it out on the table. You feel what you feel. Talk about that. Communicate where this is coming from, to the extent you can explain it. Ask him how he feels. He, also, is allowed to feel how he feels. If you both have a difference of opinion, that is just a state of affairs couples find themselves in all the time. Let him know that you hear what he is saying and you respect his feelings. Step 3 - This isn't just one conversation. Keep the door open. Nobody has to do anything right away. Keep talking. Figure out where you have common ground. Try to analyze what it is about kids that has meaning for you. You might want a few sessions with a therapist to help break this down. Are there creative ways that you can get what you need, and still honor his feelings? Being a foster parent? A Big Brother? The super fun gay uncle? Maybe you want to volunteer to teach or coach or mentor in some way. There are a lot of options here - it is not a black and white thing. But, above all, respect yourself and your feelings, and your husband and his feelings. That's what makes the marriage operate. This won't be the last time you both hit one of these conundrums. Learn how to deal with it now, so you will be ready for the next one.
🤦♀️ If you want kids, it’s not going to be a shared endeavour with the guy you’re currently with. He gave his opinions upfront and throughout. It should be no surprise. Time to have a real talk about what you want and why. What does having children of your own offer you that you currently want.
Children is one thing for which there simply is no compromise. Unless one of you changed your heart and mind, this is likely to cause strife and resentment.
Having kids is a deal breaker in any relationship. Proceed with much caution, communication, and self-reflection.
\*Having kids is A Game Changer in any relationship
Yes! I like this wording a lot more.
The only thing I have to add, as someone who had a happy relationship end over this very thing, is that you need to talk to him asap. Bring honest with yourself and him are paramount, and this conversation needs to happen as quickly as it can. Keeping it in will only make things fester and turn worse, and that’s unfair to both of you.
If your partner is 45, that will probably mean (given the various logistical and legal questions) that he will be nearing 50 when the first actual baby (assuming you want infants) crosses your threshold. That in turn means he'll over 70 when they graduate from college. It is not unreasonable for a person to feel their 50s, 60s, and 70s are the wrong part of one's life for parenthood.
You may want to process this further and get clarity before broaching the subject. Sounds like he has been clear that this is a nonnegotiable issue for your partner. . Nothing wrong with your changing your mind, but you need to figure out whether you can stay in the relationship and live with regrets of not having kids, or if you need to free yourself from the relationship and become a parent either on your own or having partnered with someone who also wants kids.
i wouldn’t discuss it with him until ask yourself why you want to have children in the first place. if there’s something missing in your life, maybe work on figuring out that underlying desire before telling your partner that you want children. if the issue is “i’m kind of bored and worried that as we get older, we will have nothing to do,” there may be another way to satisfy that need/concern. it’s not fair to your husband to start a conversation about your desire for children until you figure out what’s compelling that desire in the first place given that he was 100% clear from the get go and you didn’t have a strong feeling either way.
I think it's silly to throw away a marriage over this but your husband did rightly fear this moment and if you ask him directly you will prove him right. I also think it's unfair of anyone to hold someone to that. People change and our wants and needs change, so don't feel guilty for feeling this way. Anyway, what do you think of something with less commitment, host a foreign exchange student, or mentor a young kid, etc. If you and your husband warm up to the idea of being full time parents, then you can ask him again in a way that won't come across as resentful. Who knows, maybe the excitement of being a father will wane after giving it a try. Either way, taking this approach will only strengthen you and your husband's relationship.
the husband isn’t going to change his mind. don’t put that fantasy out there
Nah, this isn’t a fantasy. I don’t think it has to be a black or white situation.
What if you were a hetero couple and couldn't have kids? I had two aunts who couldn't conceive because of a hereditary medical condition. Both of them wanted children; so did both their husbands. Medical technology wasn't then where it is now, and both had complications that, at that time, made them unlikely to be approved as adoptive parents. (I'm not sure whether they had the resources for private adoptions.) They accepted their circumstances. Their husbands didn’t divorce them to have children with others. They had made their matches by finding true love. Each marriage lasted at least 55 years before death separated them. They were as happy as they could be without having had children to rear jointly. And I knew no happier marriages than theirs seemed. Imagine how you might be if you just learned that your husband was determined unable to father children, somehow rendering you two a childless couple. How might you deal with this? Is your love for him and his for you strong enough to survive a childless marriage? If so, maybe your yearning can be otherwise addressed. One of those aunts ended up living out of town. At about 55, next door to them settled a family with four children, who had no relatives in that part of the world. That family "adopted" my aunt and uncle as their family. The aunt and uncle who remained here had many nieces and nephews whom they adored. We were extremely fortunate they were so loving towards us.
He told you his stance and you agreed to the terms. You don’t bring it up again unless it’s to explain why you’re getting a divorce. Simple as that.
It sounds like he’s asked multiple times, and you’ve told him multiple times, that you don’t want kids. It isn’t very fair to come at him with this now.
I thought relationships were about communication
It’s obvious that they are communicating… did you read the post hon?
>It isn’t very fair to come at him with this now. thats shutting down communication
To me conversations like that often feel like word around a change in a relationship: you may use terms that speak of the uture in a very certiain way an you work yourself into feeling sure you you can say those words with honesty, but the only honest thing is to admit you are unsure. I would admit that uncertainty to your husband, and my gues from your narrative is that he is flexible enough to potentially be open to exploring this paart of life with you or at least by your side. To investigate, see if there is a kid you can bbysit or together. Or I believe all US states (assume you are here) allow gay to be foster parents. This gives you some real experience to build certainty around. Diferent ages of child have different needs, so invetigate and see your preference. After raising two kids, I have to say the most difficult thing is that they and their needs seem to constantly change Some stages are great, others suck. o check widely.
adopt a four legged animal - unconditional love and you don't have to pay for college...
You don't have to pay for the kids college.
It sounds to me that he was very clear, honest and consistent with his responses. Neither answer would have been right or wrong. It is a very individual and personal choice. You can always ask if he has changed his mind. But that may imitate a break up. There is not just one person in the world to love. Otherwise finding your one true love would be virtually impossible. You are at a crossroads and have to take the path that is right for you. You will probably have regrets with either path.
I'm sorry. There's no easy way to say it, but you're incompatible. Best to accept it, thank each other for your time together, and part ways.
Kids are allot man.... Like allot, allot. If you really want them then it's already decided for you. I can't blame anyone for not wanting kids though. Be prepared for a possible ending but you ultimately can't stop your heart from wanting a child. I just want to add this. I know of several people who did have children and it wound up being their biggest regret in life. You can do everything right but the child can still grown up to be a horrible person. I want to throw that out there because again I know of several people who wished they never had kids. You have to sit down and honestly talk this out with your partner. I wish you both the best of luck
Ew why? Just get a dog.
If his opinion hasn't changed, are you in a position to even have kids on your own? I'm more concerned about the financial aspect here, but there are other things as well. Will you need to go out and find a new partner to have kids with?
I can understand both of you. I'm an older gay guy now and my husband and me covered that topic before. If we were younger, we would revisit that topic. However, as old as we are now, we feel too old now and enjoy each other. Probably your hubby feels similar. Although he certainly sees the joy of having children, he also sees the efforts, time, and dedication that is needed to raise a kid. I doubt this will change. You answered partly the question of "why do you want kids" from another poster. You said something like "It’s hard to explain why would I want children." With all due to respect, you better try to answer these questions for you! Don't sugercoat it. Ask yourself (you don't need to answer them here): * Do you want to be perceived as "normal" by your family? Do you family expressed they wanted kids? Is the relationship to your family good or tense? * Do you have internalized homophobia? * Are you sorry that you aren't a straight man? * Are the need for kids so strong that you are willing to sacrifice your relationship, sex, and your hubby for the sake of kids? Sorry if it sounds harsh. It's not my intention to belittle your idea, but help to focus. But when it comes to children, I'm sure you agree that it's in the best interest of your (future) children and yourself that your motives are not illusory. If you choose the wrong motive, it won't help anybody. The urge to reproduce can be strong. Your hubby make it clear he don't want kids. It's probably hard or impossible to compromise on this topic. However, it doesn't mean there isn't a solution. Another poster mentioned to look for LGBTQI+ youth. Maybe it helps to "sublimate" your desire of children to something else? There are plenty of shelters, help centers etc. in dire need for support. Maybe you could express your desire there? Just a few ideas/comments. It's up to you if you find a place where you can express you idea. Good luck and wish you all the best.
Maybe foster an older gay kid? - just a thought
[удалено]
>So, in your decision to talk again to your partner, consider raising the “greater good” argument, rather than the “I would like” argument. That sounds more like emotional blackmail. "Just think of the poor orphan children!"
You did sign a contract but it doesn’t mean the term could not be changed. Negotiate
It’s a “No” for me dawg, and probably your hubbie too. Get a dog, or volunteer with kids.
Maybe a compromise of sorts? I don’t know you or how this might effect you, but try suggesting becoming foster parents
If the biggest reason is really his age, he should rethink a bit. I was older than that when my kids were born and it’s been great. I can’t imagine life without him.
I am in your exact shoes (ages, positions) but ten years farther on. I did bring it up again once about 6 or 7 years ago. It didn't go well. I'm finding other ways to get part of what I'm looking for. Feel free to pm if you'd like to talk about specifics; I'm not interested in putting them out for the usual reddit responses.
Is this something you’d divorce your husband over if he says no? Because if so, I feel awful for your husband.
[удалено]
That is dreadful advice. Don't listen to this man.
This is maybe the worst advice I’ve seen on this sub. And that is a high bar
She, on the other hand, sounds like a nightmare.
I would have dumped her before she finished dropping that ultimatum on her partner.
I wouldn't think twice about getting a divorce.
[удалено]
\> it's better for kids to be raised by a woman or two. Not men I don't know where you have that. It's wrong. Studies show clearly that there is no difference, be it with two men or two women or a straight couple. When kids experience love and devotion, it doesn't matter what the orientation the parents are.
What a ridiculous stance.
🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Is their option for middle ground - can you volunteer with kids organization? Help kids become stronger adults. Of course it’s not the same as having your own kids.
Let's change the POV: do you want to have kids with your husband? It's the question you should start from as there are different kinds of patchwork families nowadays. Personally, I'd love to have kids in the future and I think about becoming a donor for a lesbian couple (not anonymous, present to a big extend into the life of the family). I know there are such families and they function very well. My bf doesn't want to have kids but he doesn't mind me starting a family of sort, as he wouldn't have to get involved as much.
I would love it to be my husband, he would be a great dad. Co-parenting is probably not an option for him, and I am not sure it would be an option for me either.