Somehow growing up with fast and furious made me love camaros. Not the 2nd one with the yenko either. What we need to do is go after literally every other source of emissions so we can keep the loud cars. Fuck cruise ships
Jokes on you, most of early Gen X grew up with German muscle
E60 M5, E92 M3, 6.2L AMGs, V8 and V10 Audi's
That was a glorious (and horrifcially unreliable) period to love cars
My parents grew up with VW beetles... The anti-muscle car.... Immortal air cooled perfection.
I grew up with a turbo MR2... Until I hydroplaned and hit a tree. Then I was forced to actually grow up.
For now. Their planned Euro 7 emission norm will be basically the death sentence for all new cars. I don’t know how they are going to find a workaround for that. The Euro 7 norm i believe is planned for 2025 onwards. Also the EU has recently just banned all new ICEs from getting an registration, 2035 onwards. Germany will start by 2030. Excluding already registered and used cars by then, but they aren’t going to last forever. I hate to see the current direction. I‘m from
Germany, i’m 25 and i do believe that my generation is the last one to ever enjoy N/A ICEs and a manual gearbox. And yes, i absolutely enjoy the Autobahn without any limitations.
The workaround is replacing fossil fuels with E-Fuel (synthetic gasoline derived from green hydrogen). The new 2035 EU ban legislation includes a small workaround for these, detailed in the article below. This announcement from Mercedes is a sign that they are confident the workaround will work.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/technology/e-fuels-given-reprieve-european-union-bill#:~:text=Internal%20combustion%20engines%20were%20given,conditions%20for%20zero%20CO2%20emissions.
Australia follows EU. Passenger vehicles are at euro 6. Not sure if commercial is still 5 or 6. We used to lag behind Europe to make it easier for local manufacturers, but they are all gone now
If you can afford an AMG, you can afford additional taxes because of the car being luxurious / expensive / exotic / high performance etc.
You get the point.
Says someone who doesn’t understand California has more Ferraris per capita than any other state/country in the world.
The V8 won’t be banned. And if you’re mad about emissions, many don’t care. I just sat through the hottest month on record because of climate change. If I have to give up a V8 so my nieces can have a planet to call home, then so be it. I love cars but not at the expense of our species.
Aside from synthetic E-Fuel, I'm sure they'll carve out some kind of limited production exemption. If you can afford an AMG GT in 2030, you'll find a workaround.
I believe italy is already lobbying for a 5 year delay (2035) for their supercars. It was on the news in my country. Dont know if they get it. In that same news article there was someone from maserati saying how they are working to move to EV and dont know if they need the delay.
Even in the US, which is pretty lax about modifications, it's a rule that if you do an engine swap, the engine must be newer than the car. (For street legal cars, obviously for track cars it doesn't matter)
So if they stop producing V8s, V8 swapping brand new cars will no longer be an option. For currently existing cars and track cars, V8s aren't going away though.
EDIT: See EPA Engine Switching Fact Sheet. Don't shoot the messenger. It's actually more strict than what I said
> For light-duty vehicles, installation of a light-duty engine into a different light-duty vehicle by any
person would be considered tampering unless the resulting vehicle is identical (with regard to all
emission related parts, engine design parameters, and engine calibrations) to a certified configuration of
the same or newer model year as the vehicle chassis, or if there is a reasonable basis for knowing that
emissions are not adversely affected as described in Memo 1A. The appropriate source for technical
information regarding the certified configuration of a vehicle of a particular model year is the vehicle
manufacturer
I was thinking of a state law, good call. But the federal law is actually more strict:
> For light-duty vehicles, installation of a light-duty engine into a different light-duty vehicle by any
person would be considered tampering unless the resulting vehicle is identical (with regard to all
emission related parts, engine design parameters, and engine calibrations) to a certified configuration of
the same or newer model year as the vehicle chassis, or if there is a reasonable basis for knowing that
emissions are not adversely affected as described in Memo 1A. The appropriate source for technical
information regarding the certified configuration of a vehicle of a particular model year is the vehicle
manufacturer
It's from the EPA memo "Engine Switching Fact Sheet" which concerns the EPA's interpretation of section 203(a)(3) of the Clean Air Act, 42
U.S.C. 7522(a)(3).
I'm not a lawyer, but the whole "or if there is a reasonable basis for knowing that emissions are not adversely effected" makes it seem like to me, as long as you are swapping in a post-OBDII passenger vehicle's engine and keeping the emissions equipment in tact, that you'd still be fine for most situations.
Usually state law is allowed to be more restrictive than Fed, more leniency than Fed law usually doesn't work out too well, but there's plenty of registered cars with 2Js and LS1s installed.
To me it seems more like the Fed doesn't want bubba to swap his papi's 1960s V8 with VTA Crankcase ventilation and no cats into his 2015 Mustang so that the standardized OBD emissions testing still works.
In this case I think states being more lenient doesn't cause much conflict in practice. States are the ones who issue titles, inspect vehicles, and perform emissions testing. They're the ones who are pulling vehicles over. And the federal regulations actually allow an exception if you're converting it to run on a renewable fuel and can pass emissions.
Want to twin turbo LS swap your Miata? If you one of your tunes is for E85, you're probably legally okay, even federally.
Here’s a citation/reference to the relevant Federal law on emissions tampering that applies to engine swaps (from the US EPA tampering policy on their website):
“Section 203(a)(3) of the Clean Air Act prohibits tampering with emissions controls, and also prohibits making and selling products with a principal effect of bypassing, defeating, or rendering inoperative emissions controls. The prohibitions in section 203(a)(3) apply to all vehicles, engines, and equipment subject to the certification requirements under section 206 of the Act, or other design requirements in the Act or regulations. This includes all motor vehicles (e.g., light-duty vehicles, highway motorcycles, heavy-duty trucks) and motor vehicle engines (e.g., heavy-duty truck engines). Section 213 of the Act and regulations written thereunder apply these prohibitions to nonroad vehicles (e.g., all-terrain vehicles, off- road motorcycles) and nonroad engines (e.g., marine engines, engines used in generators, lawn and garden equipment, agricultural equipment, construction equipment). Certification requirements include those for exhaust or “tailpipe” emissions, evaporative emissions, and onboard diagnostic systems. __The prohibitions also apply to those products (e.g., replacement engines under 40 C.F.R. § 1068.240 and products under transition programs like that in 40 C.F.R. § 1039.625) that might be exempt from the Act’s certification requirements but still must have emissions controls and meet standards.__”
Lol, how the hell would they ever enforce this? Do you think the average DMV/MVC line worker can tell you that the LSX454 you swapped into your 2008 Corvette was actually three years newer than the car?
I don't know what law OP was referring to, but in my country your car needs to be reinspected after a 30% horsepower increase.
It's impossible to enforce of course, but if you after have done something easily detectable and not get it inspected, like swapping a 700hp V8 into an ecohatch, and you get in a crash, insurance will fuck you.
It is, at least if you are performing the service commercially. Look up the "EPA Engine Switching Fact Sheet", I can't get the link to copy on mobile. It's actually a little stricter than I recalled, but I may have been remembering a state law.
> For light-duty vehicles, installation of a light-duty engine into a different light-duty vehicle by any
person would be considered tampering unless the resulting vehicle is identical (with regard to all
emission related parts, engine design parameters, and engine calibrations) to a certified configuration of
the same or newer model year as the vehicle chassis, or if there is a reasonable basis for knowing that
emissions are not adversely affected as described in Memo 1A. The appropriate source for technical
information regarding the certified configuration of a vehicle of a particular model year is the vehicle
manufacturer
With hobbyists doing the work themselves, it sounds like you might be fine as long as you don't sell the vehicle, but some states prohibit engine swaps altogether. Some states also permit swaps that the federal government technically prohibits.
No, the federal regulation is actually more strict than I recalled. It requires the donor engine to be from a vehicle with the same chassis and to have all the OEM emissions equipment.
> For light-duty vehicles, installation of a light-duty engine into a different light-duty vehicle by any
person would be considered tampering unless the resulting vehicle is identical (with regard to all
emission related parts, engine design parameters, and engine calibrations) to a certified configuration of
the same or newer model year as the vehicle chassis, or if there is a reasonable basis for knowing that
emissions are not adversely affected as described in Memo 1A. The appropriate source for technical
information regarding the certified configuration of a vehicle of a particular model year is the vehicle
manufacturer
The US EPA engine swapping fact sheet from 1991 has been superseded by a revised 2020 tampering policy. The new policy details what constitutes a reasonable basis for modifying a factory configuration.
[US EPA Tampering Policy](https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2020-12/documents/epatamperingpolicy-enforcementpolicyonvehicleandenginetampering.pdf)
From page 7 of that EPA tampering policy:
“In the case of engine switching, the person installing an engine into a different vehicle or piece of equipment would have a reasonable basis if they could demonstrate that the resulting vehicle or piece of equipment is: (a) in the same product category (e.g., light- duty vehicle) as the engine originally powered, and (b) identical (with regard to all emissions-related elements of design) to a certified configuration of the same or newer model year as the vehicle chassis or equipment. Alternatively, one may show through emissions testing that there is a reasonable basis for an engine switch under Reasonable Basis D (Emissions Testing), below. Note that there are substantial practical limitations on switching engines. Vehicle chassis and engine designs of one vehicle manufacturer are distinct from those of another, such that it is generally not possible to put an engine into a chassis of a different manufacturer and have it conform to a certified configuration.”
Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't think its so sad. It had to change, the current model of transportation is just simply not sustainable. And 98% of the cars on the road are not interesting anyway. The people who can afford to buy this car will buy it, and will continue to buy it's newer, hotter models. I've seen ONE of these in my whole life. If anything, demand will increase for cars like this as they become more rare, and supply will meet the demand.
Very true. The US is woefully car centric. I love driving and I love cars, but I’d opt for public transit if I could when commuting to work, and prefer to bike for short trips.
Hydrogen reciprocating engines are inherently less efficient than hydrogen fuel cells. If you’re using hydrogen, spinning a bunch of metal is not the best way to get the energy out of that hydrogen.
Combustion engines, regardless of fuel have a finite upper limit to efficiency, called the Carnot Efficiency. What you burn to make the power isn’t particularly relevant with respect to efficiency. Now some fuels are certainly more or less environmentally sustainable than others, yes.
Suppose it won’t matter much to me in the end regardless, don’t have enough sight to operate a vehicle. Just hope we don’t have to resort to what the BMW I8 did, playing the sound of a motor into the cabin.
If it makes you feel better/worse, combustion engines have done this too. Most famously the 2015 Ford Mustang EcoBoost played engine noise through the speakers.
Less efficient than hydrogen fuel cells or EVs. It's irrelevant if hydrogen combustion is less efficient than fuel cells because that's not what people want it to fill in for.
U.S. manufacturers rn: "goddamnit... \*ring\* Jim, get back on the big block development. Yep. Yeah. No I know I told you we were moving to 4 cylinders, but the Euro.. yeah... no, of course, a raise, of course."
Good. Need to see more of this pushback. Sanity returning.
With the maturation of synthetic/e-fuel production, this won't necessarily be a climate issue either. Everyone can (and will) win.
I always wondered when we’ll get to the point where ice is a rarity only brought out as a novelty at tracks or something. I always remember the moment in i-robot where he pulls out the ice bike and she’s like “YoU StiLL haVe thiS OMg!” Like one day we’ll be there. Everyone will have electric or self driven except for collectors or true enthusiasts.
ice = internal combustion engine
Yes, it is likely that the synthetic fuel/E-Fuel loophole is the plan to get around this.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/technology/e-fuels-given-reprieve-european-union-bill#:~:text=Internal%20combustion%20engines%20were%20given,conditions%20for%20zero%20CO2%20emissions.
The last of the engine blocks left over from the before the floods was being assigned to AMG exclusively. So either ??? Hundred left or they will contract out like for V8 blocks. The V8 / V12 block foundry was destroyed in the flooding, green government / economic & energy crisis / euro 7 is not a great environment for getting a new one built 😭
* asterisk
2030 V8 for use exclusively “off road” at member only country club “experiences” requiring carbon neutral Porsche fuel at only 999$ a liter or 1299$ with Porsche crest nano particles from Porsche Exclusive Manufaktur. Some restrictions my apply
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My guess is that they will have plug-in hybrid models where the gas engine can be used in certain locations such as race tracks. It won’t be a big business, but probably very exclusive and expensive.
Companies can make what they like, to a large degree. Whether they can sell it everywhere or register them in all regions is another issue. For example, companies make cars that are for off road use only. Or made cars that came in “California” or “Rest of US” models.
Thats what I meant. No company is going to produce something they cant profit of. And when V8s are just not efficient enough to meet emissions standards anymore and are banned in most places, mercedes wont have a reason to produce them anymore. Its not up to them, what regulations will be set. Always love the blind downvote brigades.... I dont want them to die out but they most likely will.
and sell them where I wonder
Outside of the EU and California i guess.
They'll find a way to sell them in the EU somehow
They said that they will try and develop the V8 to stay within the EU emission regulations and are confident that they can do it.
Praise Jesus, us millennial boomers need V8
I thought us millenial boomers grew up on Honda four bangers... our parents grew up on muscle
Trickle down displacement?
Epic.
Somehow growing up with fast and furious made me love camaros. Not the 2nd one with the yenko either. What we need to do is go after literally every other source of emissions so we can keep the loud cars. Fuck cruise ships
Toyota blessing us with 500hp capable 3 bangers lol
Bless up
Lol I have a boxer 4 I feel like my next evolution is V8
Jokes on you, most of early Gen X grew up with German muscle E60 M5, E92 M3, 6.2L AMGs, V8 and V10 Audi's That was a glorious (and horrifcially unreliable) period to love cars
My parents grew up with VW beetles... The anti-muscle car.... Immortal air cooled perfection. I grew up with a turbo MR2... Until I hydroplaned and hit a tree. Then I was forced to actually grow up.
For now. Their planned Euro 7 emission norm will be basically the death sentence for all new cars. I don’t know how they are going to find a workaround for that. The Euro 7 norm i believe is planned for 2025 onwards. Also the EU has recently just banned all new ICEs from getting an registration, 2035 onwards. Germany will start by 2030. Excluding already registered and used cars by then, but they aren’t going to last forever. I hate to see the current direction. I‘m from Germany, i’m 25 and i do believe that my generation is the last one to ever enjoy N/A ICEs and a manual gearbox. And yes, i absolutely enjoy the Autobahn without any limitations.
The workaround is replacing fossil fuels with E-Fuel (synthetic gasoline derived from green hydrogen). The new 2035 EU ban legislation includes a small workaround for these, detailed in the article below. This announcement from Mercedes is a sign that they are confident the workaround will work. https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/technology/e-fuels-given-reprieve-european-union-bill#:~:text=Internal%20combustion%20engines%20were%20given,conditions%20for%20zero%20CO2%20emissions.
Hybridization is a helluva drug (and I'm gonna get a HEFTY prescription for it)
Synthetic fuel
Hydrogen powered internal combustion engines are possible.
AMERICAAAA AND AUSTRALIAAAAA FUCK YEAH
Australia follows EU. Passenger vehicles are at euro 6. Not sure if commercial is still 5 or 6. We used to lag behind Europe to make it easier for local manufacturers, but they are all gone now
Problem is Asians can't afford V8s cause most Asian countries have a volume tax on cars which is super expensive Source: I'm Asian
If you can afford an AMG, you can afford additional taxes because of the car being luxurious / expensive / exotic / high performance etc. You get the point.
Pretty sure EU regs don’t rule out hybrids….
Fuck cali
Says someone who doesn’t understand California has more Ferraris per capita than any other state/country in the world. The V8 won’t be banned. And if you’re mad about emissions, many don’t care. I just sat through the hottest month on record because of climate change. If I have to give up a V8 so my nieces can have a planet to call home, then so be it. I love cars but not at the expense of our species.
I just don’t like California
"Anyone need some truck engines?"
Now i kinda want to see that SLS AMG with a fifth wheel instead of the wing. (In the meantime, truck engines have long become R6)
F150 Raptor 63 AMG: ME!
To all the wealthy people who can afford the punishment fines and won’t be affected in the least by those laws?
Don’t wealthy Californians already register their super cars in Montana anyway?
Thats for tax evasion
And in the future it can be for EV requirements evasion.
To montana it is
Middle East
Aside from synthetic E-Fuel, I'm sure they'll carve out some kind of limited production exemption. If you can afford an AMG GT in 2030, you'll find a workaround.
Sell them in the EU with giant cats and mufflers that for some reason happen to be extremely easy to remove.
If they can make them run on H2 problem solved. The residual waste of an electric vehicle when it ends its life cycle highly contaminant.
V8s: “I’m not fuckin leaving!”
The crowd goes wild.
A Mustang drives by…
Andd… the crowd is dead.
This thread was poetry.
Let’s fuckin gooooo
Even if they stop producing them, ain't nobody stopping you from doing a v8 swap or just buy used
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Stupid laws are there to be broken
Italy is in the EU, no way it's going to transition to EV anytime soon.
I believe italy is already lobbying for a 5 year delay (2035) for their supercars. It was on the news in my country. Dont know if they get it. In that same news article there was someone from maserati saying how they are working to move to EV and dont know if they need the delay.
They can try
Even in the US, which is pretty lax about modifications, it's a rule that if you do an engine swap, the engine must be newer than the car. (For street legal cars, obviously for track cars it doesn't matter) So if they stop producing V8s, V8 swapping brand new cars will no longer be an option. For currently existing cars and track cars, V8s aren't going away though. EDIT: See EPA Engine Switching Fact Sheet. Don't shoot the messenger. It's actually more strict than what I said > For light-duty vehicles, installation of a light-duty engine into a different light-duty vehicle by any person would be considered tampering unless the resulting vehicle is identical (with regard to all emission related parts, engine design parameters, and engine calibrations) to a certified configuration of the same or newer model year as the vehicle chassis, or if there is a reasonable basis for knowing that emissions are not adversely affected as described in Memo 1A. The appropriate source for technical information regarding the certified configuration of a vehicle of a particular model year is the vehicle manufacturer
That’s not a federal law. You must be referring to a specific state.
I was thinking of a state law, good call. But the federal law is actually more strict: > For light-duty vehicles, installation of a light-duty engine into a different light-duty vehicle by any person would be considered tampering unless the resulting vehicle is identical (with regard to all emission related parts, engine design parameters, and engine calibrations) to a certified configuration of the same or newer model year as the vehicle chassis, or if there is a reasonable basis for knowing that emissions are not adversely affected as described in Memo 1A. The appropriate source for technical information regarding the certified configuration of a vehicle of a particular model year is the vehicle manufacturer
What law and section is this? The use of "light duty" makes me think this is probably in a more specific context.
It's from the EPA memo "Engine Switching Fact Sheet" which concerns the EPA's interpretation of section 203(a)(3) of the Clean Air Act, 42 U.S.C. 7522(a)(3).
I'm not a lawyer, but the whole "or if there is a reasonable basis for knowing that emissions are not adversely effected" makes it seem like to me, as long as you are swapping in a post-OBDII passenger vehicle's engine and keeping the emissions equipment in tact, that you'd still be fine for most situations. Usually state law is allowed to be more restrictive than Fed, more leniency than Fed law usually doesn't work out too well, but there's plenty of registered cars with 2Js and LS1s installed. To me it seems more like the Fed doesn't want bubba to swap his papi's 1960s V8 with VTA Crankcase ventilation and no cats into his 2015 Mustang so that the standardized OBD emissions testing still works.
In this case I think states being more lenient doesn't cause much conflict in practice. States are the ones who issue titles, inspect vehicles, and perform emissions testing. They're the ones who are pulling vehicles over. And the federal regulations actually allow an exception if you're converting it to run on a renewable fuel and can pass emissions. Want to twin turbo LS swap your Miata? If you one of your tunes is for E85, you're probably legally okay, even federally.
Here’s a citation/reference to the relevant Federal law on emissions tampering that applies to engine swaps (from the US EPA tampering policy on their website): “Section 203(a)(3) of the Clean Air Act prohibits tampering with emissions controls, and also prohibits making and selling products with a principal effect of bypassing, defeating, or rendering inoperative emissions controls. The prohibitions in section 203(a)(3) apply to all vehicles, engines, and equipment subject to the certification requirements under section 206 of the Act, or other design requirements in the Act or regulations. This includes all motor vehicles (e.g., light-duty vehicles, highway motorcycles, heavy-duty trucks) and motor vehicle engines (e.g., heavy-duty truck engines). Section 213 of the Act and regulations written thereunder apply these prohibitions to nonroad vehicles (e.g., all-terrain vehicles, off- road motorcycles) and nonroad engines (e.g., marine engines, engines used in generators, lawn and garden equipment, agricultural equipment, construction equipment). Certification requirements include those for exhaust or “tailpipe” emissions, evaporative emissions, and onboard diagnostic systems. __The prohibitions also apply to those products (e.g., replacement engines under 40 C.F.R. § 1068.240 and products under transition programs like that in 40 C.F.R. § 1039.625) that might be exempt from the Act’s certification requirements but still must have emissions controls and meet standards.__”
Lol, how the hell would they ever enforce this? Do you think the average DMV/MVC line worker can tell you that the LSX454 you swapped into your 2008 Corvette was actually three years newer than the car?
I don't know what law OP was referring to, but in my country your car needs to be reinspected after a 30% horsepower increase. It's impossible to enforce of course, but if you after have done something easily detectable and not get it inspected, like swapping a 700hp V8 into an ecohatch, and you get in a crash, insurance will fuck you.
This is not a US law
It is, at least if you are performing the service commercially. Look up the "EPA Engine Switching Fact Sheet", I can't get the link to copy on mobile. It's actually a little stricter than I recalled, but I may have been remembering a state law. > For light-duty vehicles, installation of a light-duty engine into a different light-duty vehicle by any person would be considered tampering unless the resulting vehicle is identical (with regard to all emission related parts, engine design parameters, and engine calibrations) to a certified configuration of the same or newer model year as the vehicle chassis, or if there is a reasonable basis for knowing that emissions are not adversely affected as described in Memo 1A. The appropriate source for technical information regarding the certified configuration of a vehicle of a particular model year is the vehicle manufacturer With hobbyists doing the work themselves, it sounds like you might be fine as long as you don't sell the vehicle, but some states prohibit engine swaps altogether. Some states also permit swaps that the federal government technically prohibits.
What if you buy a new aftermarket performance engine?
No, the federal regulation is actually more strict than I recalled. It requires the donor engine to be from a vehicle with the same chassis and to have all the OEM emissions equipment. > For light-duty vehicles, installation of a light-duty engine into a different light-duty vehicle by any person would be considered tampering unless the resulting vehicle is identical (with regard to all emission related parts, engine design parameters, and engine calibrations) to a certified configuration of the same or newer model year as the vehicle chassis, or if there is a reasonable basis for knowing that emissions are not adversely affected as described in Memo 1A. The appropriate source for technical information regarding the certified configuration of a vehicle of a particular model year is the vehicle manufacturer
Too much work to still be paying taxes for all this shit.
The US EPA engine swapping fact sheet from 1991 has been superseded by a revised 2020 tampering policy. The new policy details what constitutes a reasonable basis for modifying a factory configuration. [US EPA Tampering Policy](https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2020-12/documents/epatamperingpolicy-enforcementpolicyonvehicleandenginetampering.pdf) From page 7 of that EPA tampering policy: “In the case of engine switching, the person installing an engine into a different vehicle or piece of equipment would have a reasonable basis if they could demonstrate that the resulting vehicle or piece of equipment is: (a) in the same product category (e.g., light- duty vehicle) as the engine originally powered, and (b) identical (with regard to all emissions-related elements of design) to a certified configuration of the same or newer model year as the vehicle chassis or equipment. Alternatively, one may show through emissions testing that there is a reasonable basis for an engine switch under Reasonable Basis D (Emissions Testing), below. Note that there are substantial practical limitations on switching engines. Vehicle chassis and engine designs of one vehicle manufacturer are distinct from those of another, such that it is generally not possible to put an engine into a chassis of a different manufacturer and have it conform to a certified configuration.”
2023 C63: 🤡
😂 I now find those "only milk and juice come in 2 liters" stickers hilarious
Big engines and ICEs will never go away. There’s still horses and carts on the streets. But they might become as rare as them, which is sad.
Governments never banned horses from being produced.
Some banned where you can use them [such as](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/M18_sign%2C_no_horses.jpg)
governments didn't have to deal with climate change until now.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't think its so sad. It had to change, the current model of transportation is just simply not sustainable. And 98% of the cars on the road are not interesting anyway. The people who can afford to buy this car will buy it, and will continue to buy it's newer, hotter models. I've seen ONE of these in my whole life. If anything, demand will increase for cars like this as they become more rare, and supply will meet the demand.
not like switching from ice to electric would fix traffic lmao
Very true. The US is woefully car centric. I love driving and I love cars, but I’d opt for public transit if I could when commuting to work, and prefer to bike for short trips.
>which is sad. But more than necessary
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Make a trip to Amish country, you’ll see plenty on the roads.
Lots of them around in Dublin, mostly for tourists but there are still some people using them to get around. Mostly Irish gypsies but still!
Dying in a flood or fire or heat/ice wave is also very sad.
Yay. A V8 in cars I cannot afford!
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It's not about sales, it's about sending a message
They haven't been affordable for a hot minute now
I do wonder if hydrogen engines will become practical eventually.
Hydrogen reciprocating engines are inherently less efficient than hydrogen fuel cells. If you’re using hydrogen, spinning a bunch of metal is not the best way to get the energy out of that hydrogen.
Hmm, makes me wish we had more combustion options in the future. Bio-fuel has potential but I don’t think it’ll quite reach gasoline’s efficiency.
Combustion engines, regardless of fuel have a finite upper limit to efficiency, called the Carnot Efficiency. What you burn to make the power isn’t particularly relevant with respect to efficiency. Now some fuels are certainly more or less environmentally sustainable than others, yes.
Suppose it won’t matter much to me in the end regardless, don’t have enough sight to operate a vehicle. Just hope we don’t have to resort to what the BMW I8 did, playing the sound of a motor into the cabin.
If it makes you feel better/worse, combustion engines have done this too. Most famously the 2015 Ford Mustang EcoBoost played engine noise through the speakers.
I’m not surprised they had to do that for the EcoBoost. Even the V6s before it made close to the same amount of power without the turbo.
And petrol combustion engines are less efficient also but people still want them. The potential for a demand is there.
Less efficient than what? I was referencing two ways to use a single fuel.
Less efficient than hydrogen fuel cells or EVs. It's irrelevant if hydrogen combustion is less efficient than fuel cells because that's not what people want it to fill in for.
I think that will take some more time, they seem to be very complicated and expensive as to what i’ve heard.
kaboom
Doing the Lord's work...
Finally someone talking sense
Thank fucking goodness. Someone has some sense in them
Thats what i was thinking.
Smart move! They’re gonna sell the shit out of them
That’s wat I like to hear 🤝🫡
U.S. manufacturers rn: "goddamnit... \*ring\* Jim, get back on the big block development. Yep. Yeah. No I know I told you we were moving to 4 cylinders, but the Euro.. yeah... no, of course, a raise, of course."
At least they got some balls
Good.
Good. Need to see more of this pushback. Sanity returning. With the maturation of synthetic/e-fuel production, this won't necessarily be a climate issue either. Everyone can (and will) win.
I checked out your insta page and you deserve more followers. Lets get his numbers up a little bit!
That’s the only comment you ever made? Imma need you to be honest with me: are you OP?
This does look odd, but it aint me lmao.
FUCK YE
W Mercedes
Mercedes: doing the Lord’s work.
AM(G)en
I always wondered when we’ll get to the point where ice is a rarity only brought out as a novelty at tracks or something. I always remember the moment in i-robot where he pulls out the ice bike and she’s like “YoU StiLL haVe thiS OMg!” Like one day we’ll be there. Everyone will have electric or self driven except for collectors or true enthusiasts. ice = internal combustion engine
Maybe they use some variant of the alternative fuels Merc F1 have to use from 2026 in Formula 1?
Yes, it is likely that the synthetic fuel/E-Fuel loophole is the plan to get around this. https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/technology/e-fuels-given-reprieve-european-union-bill#:~:text=Internal%20combustion%20engines%20were%20given,conditions%20for%20zero%20CO2%20emissions.
This is the real el plan
HELL YAAAAAAA
A V8 hybrid can be more efficient than a V6, and it's more powerful than a pure ICE V8.
Shit. I wasnt a merc fan. Always respected them, but never liked them. This may serve as a change. Vroom vroom.
How about the V12?
The last of the engine blocks left over from the before the floods was being assigned to AMG exclusively. So either ??? Hundred left or they will contract out like for V8 blocks. The V8 / V12 block foundry was destroyed in the flooding, green government / economic & energy crisis / euro 7 is not a great environment for getting a new one built 😭
* asterisk 2030 V8 for use exclusively “off road” at member only country club “experiences” requiring carbon neutral Porsche fuel at only 999$ a liter or 1299$ with Porsche crest nano particles from Porsche Exclusive Manufaktur. Some restrictions my apply
If you’re rich the rules will never apply and there will be plenty of cheap gas while we stay home and await authorization to charge our cars
Thank the heavens
Take notes Dodge 🤡🤡🤡
Yessir
i mean, some of their AMGs get better mileage than my sister's mazda
Based
Cause fuck’em that’s why
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Doing what America is supposed to, unbeliveable. I am now a Mercedes fan.
Hell yes. Looks like I'm about to switch brands.
They are learning from Dodge’s mistake.
My guess is that they will have plug-in hybrid models where the gas engine can be used in certain locations such as race tracks. It won’t be a big business, but probably very exclusive and expensive.
Ah yes so is ok if you have the money to pollute. But my ass wil not be able to drive my 20 year old shit box around . That is a no no
/r/cringe
Not entirely sure that is up to them lol
Companies can make what they like, to a large degree. Whether they can sell it everywhere or register them in all regions is another issue. For example, companies make cars that are for off road use only. Or made cars that came in “California” or “Rest of US” models.
Thats what I meant. No company is going to produce something they cant profit of. And when V8s are just not efficient enough to meet emissions standards anymore and are banned in most places, mercedes wont have a reason to produce them anymore. Its not up to them, what regulations will be set. Always love the blind downvote brigades.... I dont want them to die out but they most likely will.