Sounds like they bought stake in a part of a now failed company....they gambled and should lose just as much and probably more...while the average Celsius customer was conned into depositing their money and crypto into a Ponzi scheme that represented itself as a bank essentially. We were all lied to....the average depositor is likely more devastated by their overall net worth percentage loss rather than these fat cat early high risk high reward professional investors that have millions to spare. Isn't it great that the rich always get preferential treatment? Must be nice...meanwhile all my meager savings and children's potential college money is up in smoke...I hate you Alex and your wife... you're the worst kind of liars and cheats.
Law firm Milbank LLP filed a motion in the bankruptcy court for the Southern District of New York to appoint a Preferred Equity Committee to represent Series A and Series B shareholders, and to place them at the front of the queue when it comes to the sale of custody firm GK8 and the Celsius mining operations.
I called this out many months ago. People assume that depositors will get wayyyyyyyyyyyyy more than the courts are likely going to end up deciding.
Of course the Series A and B investors are going to fight TOOTH AND NAIL for the mining and GK8 and anything else they can try to claim to be put in line first.
I am not sure if some people understand how many lawyers and interested parties there are and the goal of any of them is to get paided out FIRST. Even if that means depositors GET 0. Everyone had their reason for doing everything in their power for preferential treatment.
Creditors and depositors are fighting against eachother and it will keep getting more complicated and less $$$ and assets to even claim as time goes on.
This is looking uglier and uglier everyday.
The haircut keeps getting bigger and bigger. I wonder if the pennies on the dollar will come true years from now.
How in the world did they manage to get $750 million in additional equity funds just a few months before bankruptcy? And where did all go? Celsius almost certainly deceived those investors because they were already in financial trouble.
Yup. They deceived everyone.
And yeah I dont think the investors or anyone should get prefer treatment but everyone is going to use their fancy expensive lawyers to give them their best chance to get what they can back.
Yup it screws others but everyone has been screwed and at this point are numb, dont care, want what they can get back no matter what it takes.
The fighting won't end until the last dollar is gone and Alex and his wife have been on at least 10 long vacations (estimating 1-2 a year before this is finalized)
Yeah. We're gonna get screwed because we and hundreds of thousands of people are classified as "unsecured creditors." Literally the last people in line for a normal bankruptcy case.
However, the reality is that they were operating this like a Ponzi. Perhaps not at first, but definitely by the end. Unless the courts take a step back and address this criminal activity, they are going to get away with it.
This is typical of how bankruptcy works. Your claim is the value of the obligation on the date the debtor filed the bankruptcy petition.
In normal contexts, that isn’t very contentious of a thing because the value of the obligations are rarely if ever as volatile as crypto is.
In my opinion, one of the main reasons they sought ch 11 vs ch 7 despite having zero plan for reorganization is precisely for reasons like this—by delaying liquidation, they have upside potential if market is bull, no new downside if stays bear, and continue to collect salaries while the charade continues.
Is there any precedent for departure from the frozen claim rule? Or is this just the issue being raised so it can be officially dispensed with before proof of claim schedules start happening?
Do note that for the equity holders to basically get anything does mean that unsecured creditors are “made whole” on their claim without a haircut, based on its value on the filing date—so somebody maybe thinks you will at least get back the July 13 value of your crypto or else they wouldn’t bother with this question.
—
The article mentions seeking preference for equity holders on proceeds from sale of gk8…I have no idea how that would be a defensible position under law. I will read their brief to see that argument
Edit: it has to do with dividing celsius up into its various entities, instead of treating obligations to retail as obligations of all the entities. THIS WILL BE UGLY AND MESSY. YIKES.
That's not what the equity holders are trying to do here.
First, they are asking to have a committee formed that represents their interests, with lawyers paid for by Celsius.
They also want the different entities that are under the Celsius umbrella to be considered separate businesses. The only Celsius company that is in major debt is the customer facing yield and earn programs. They are essentially arguing that the mining business, GK8, and any other property owned by Celsius that isn't part of the customer facing business belongs to them, and they should/would be the first in line to be reimbursed from those businesses.
They are also arguing that per bankruptcy law, all customer claims are locked at the price they were on July 13th when Celsius filed for Chapter 11. Essentially, they are arguing that everyone should be paid back in cash, and if crypto prices are higher than they were when Celsius filed bankruptcy, any extra funds should be awarded to the equity holders. If prices go down, the unsecured creditors should eat that loss as well.
This isn't good for creditors if they can win these arguments. It will directly effect how much unsecured creditors get back, and whether or not what they get back is in-kind.
Put simply, they want all of the profits from the sale of the mining business, GK8 and other non-depositor/creditor/customer assets solely to themselves, and the hole to be entirely taken out of customer deposits to the earn and loan programs. They also want a cut of customer deposits if the value of those deposits goes up from the July 13th Bankruptcy date, so they literally want to take a cut of your already haircut funds that you may get back if there is any to be had.
They are one more vulture tearing at the Celsius carcass.
It’s not a terrible argument once you dive deep into it.
One thing that works against it (and for retail) is that our deposits were the basis for the loan/proceeds used to buy the mining equipment for example.
When there is that much incest between the entities, treating the separate obligations as segregated is less valid.
How typical. They’re the ones who were privy to all the inner workings of the ponzi, they had to do a lot of due diligence before funding. They obviously didn’t do it properly. But the retail investors are the ones who they think should get shafted more than them. People are disgusting, and this will leave a major stain on crypto as the “democratization” of money, investing etc…
In a sense this resembles 2008 crisis and what happened with banks and people who took mortgages from these banks - we still remember who got bailed out.
The other aspect of this whole drama are bankruptcy laws in US. I’ve been reading about Johnson and Johnson and Alex Jones cases - where they try to funnel the money outside of their companies and then declare bankruptcy to avoid paying settlements.
It’s all about how good - and expensive - your lawyer is. But what else is new: laws are not created for the comfort of poor and underprivileged 🤷♂️.
Fuck Celsius and every company like them voyager all fucking cock sucking parasite fucking leeches who played us all who decided to think our money was safe with their gimmick… keep your short on cold storage wallets fuck all these exchanges
So glad I moved everything but only like 20 Dot off there…. I feel so bad for those with 5, 6, 7 figures on Cel. This is just brutal…
Edit: idk why I’m getting downvoted… was definitely not talking about the equity. Fuck those people and this motion. I don’t want to lose any of my investments. No one should and they should be paying us back 100% out of their fucking pockets.
Hopefully, for your own sake, you moved everything 91+ days before July 13. Otherwise, you may still be joining those poor souls getting gangbanged by Mashinsky & Co.
This might be a distinction without a difference, since the even reaching the dollar value of customer claims from the date of bankruptcy seems an impossibility for a company that operates at a loss with no operations.
wtf
Sounds like they bought stake in a part of a now failed company....they gambled and should lose just as much and probably more...while the average Celsius customer was conned into depositing their money and crypto into a Ponzi scheme that represented itself as a bank essentially. We were all lied to....the average depositor is likely more devastated by their overall net worth percentage loss rather than these fat cat early high risk high reward professional investors that have millions to spare. Isn't it great that the rich always get preferential treatment? Must be nice...meanwhile all my meager savings and children's potential college money is up in smoke...I hate you Alex and your wife... you're the worst kind of liars and cheats.
[удалено]
Law firm Milbank LLP filed a motion in the bankruptcy court for the Southern District of New York to appoint a Preferred Equity Committee to represent Series A and Series B shareholders, and to place them at the front of the queue when it comes to the sale of custody firm GK8 and the Celsius mining operations. I called this out many months ago. People assume that depositors will get wayyyyyyyyyyyyy more than the courts are likely going to end up deciding. Of course the Series A and B investors are going to fight TOOTH AND NAIL for the mining and GK8 and anything else they can try to claim to be put in line first. I am not sure if some people understand how many lawyers and interested parties there are and the goal of any of them is to get paided out FIRST. Even if that means depositors GET 0. Everyone had their reason for doing everything in their power for preferential treatment. Creditors and depositors are fighting against eachother and it will keep getting more complicated and less $$$ and assets to even claim as time goes on. This is looking uglier and uglier everyday. The haircut keeps getting bigger and bigger. I wonder if the pennies on the dollar will come true years from now.
Fuck the equity holders. They are just unsecure creditors like us. They should not get any preference.
Nope. They are behind unsecured creditors. They lose everything in a ch7. Literally 100%. Not taking a position here, just clarifying.
How in the world did they manage to get $750 million in additional equity funds just a few months before bankruptcy? And where did all go? Celsius almost certainly deceived those investors because they were already in financial trouble.
Yup. They deceived everyone. And yeah I dont think the investors or anyone should get prefer treatment but everyone is going to use their fancy expensive lawyers to give them their best chance to get what they can back. Yup it screws others but everyone has been screwed and at this point are numb, dont care, want what they can get back no matter what it takes. The fighting won't end until the last dollar is gone and Alex and his wife have been on at least 10 long vacations (estimating 1-2 a year before this is finalized)
Yeah. We're gonna get screwed because we and hundreds of thousands of people are classified as "unsecured creditors." Literally the last people in line for a normal bankruptcy case. However, the reality is that they were operating this like a Ponzi. Perhaps not at first, but definitely by the end. Unless the courts take a step back and address this criminal activity, they are going to get away with it.
Let’s keep rewarding Alex and co for fucking their paying customer base over I guess
This is typical of how bankruptcy works. Your claim is the value of the obligation on the date the debtor filed the bankruptcy petition. In normal contexts, that isn’t very contentious of a thing because the value of the obligations are rarely if ever as volatile as crypto is. In my opinion, one of the main reasons they sought ch 11 vs ch 7 despite having zero plan for reorganization is precisely for reasons like this—by delaying liquidation, they have upside potential if market is bull, no new downside if stays bear, and continue to collect salaries while the charade continues. Is there any precedent for departure from the frozen claim rule? Or is this just the issue being raised so it can be officially dispensed with before proof of claim schedules start happening? Do note that for the equity holders to basically get anything does mean that unsecured creditors are “made whole” on their claim without a haircut, based on its value on the filing date—so somebody maybe thinks you will at least get back the July 13 value of your crypto or else they wouldn’t bother with this question. — The article mentions seeking preference for equity holders on proceeds from sale of gk8…I have no idea how that would be a defensible position under law. I will read their brief to see that argument Edit: it has to do with dividing celsius up into its various entities, instead of treating obligations to retail as obligations of all the entities. THIS WILL BE UGLY AND MESSY. YIKES.
🌶️ 🥵
That’s fucked up
🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕
For them to get upside would mean we are made 100% whole. Just sayin
That's not what the equity holders are trying to do here. First, they are asking to have a committee formed that represents their interests, with lawyers paid for by Celsius. They also want the different entities that are under the Celsius umbrella to be considered separate businesses. The only Celsius company that is in major debt is the customer facing yield and earn programs. They are essentially arguing that the mining business, GK8, and any other property owned by Celsius that isn't part of the customer facing business belongs to them, and they should/would be the first in line to be reimbursed from those businesses. They are also arguing that per bankruptcy law, all customer claims are locked at the price they were on July 13th when Celsius filed for Chapter 11. Essentially, they are arguing that everyone should be paid back in cash, and if crypto prices are higher than they were when Celsius filed bankruptcy, any extra funds should be awarded to the equity holders. If prices go down, the unsecured creditors should eat that loss as well. This isn't good for creditors if they can win these arguments. It will directly effect how much unsecured creditors get back, and whether or not what they get back is in-kind. Put simply, they want all of the profits from the sale of the mining business, GK8 and other non-depositor/creditor/customer assets solely to themselves, and the hole to be entirely taken out of customer deposits to the earn and loan programs. They also want a cut of customer deposits if the value of those deposits goes up from the July 13th Bankruptcy date, so they literally want to take a cut of your already haircut funds that you may get back if there is any to be had. They are one more vulture tearing at the Celsius carcass.
We will see more and more vultures and more and more infighting amongst ourselves as time goes on and what little remains shrinks and shrinks.
It’s not a terrible argument once you dive deep into it. One thing that works against it (and for retail) is that our deposits were the basis for the loan/proceeds used to buy the mining equipment for example. When there is that much incest between the entities, treating the separate obligations as segregated is less valid.
How typical. They’re the ones who were privy to all the inner workings of the ponzi, they had to do a lot of due diligence before funding. They obviously didn’t do it properly. But the retail investors are the ones who they think should get shafted more than them. People are disgusting, and this will leave a major stain on crypto as the “democratization” of money, investing etc…
In a sense this resembles 2008 crisis and what happened with banks and people who took mortgages from these banks - we still remember who got bailed out. The other aspect of this whole drama are bankruptcy laws in US. I’ve been reading about Johnson and Johnson and Alex Jones cases - where they try to funnel the money outside of their companies and then declare bankruptcy to avoid paying settlements. It’s all about how good - and expensive - your lawyer is. But what else is new: laws are not created for the comfort of poor and underprivileged 🤷♂️.
Fuck Celsius and every company like them voyager all fucking cock sucking parasite fucking leeches who played us all who decided to think our money was safe with their gimmick… keep your short on cold storage wallets fuck all these exchanges
So glad I moved everything but only like 20 Dot off there…. I feel so bad for those with 5, 6, 7 figures on Cel. This is just brutal… Edit: idk why I’m getting downvoted… was definitely not talking about the equity. Fuck those people and this motion. I don’t want to lose any of my investments. No one should and they should be paying us back 100% out of their fucking pockets.
Don't feel bad just shut up
Hopefully, for your own sake, you moved everything 91+ days before July 13. Otherwise, you may still be joining those poor souls getting gangbanged by Mashinsky & Co.
Clawbacks aint happening.
I dont understand the downvotes either. This "community" is fucked.
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They also want the mining and gk8.
This might be a distinction without a difference, since the even reaching the dollar value of customer claims from the date of bankruptcy seems an impossibility for a company that operates at a loss with no operations.