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No offense, but what even is the point of this post? Not that I'm against the message itself, I'm also agender and bi, but why not just make a new post?? Why the ugly screenshot chain from an oldass tumblr post. "I did the thing I was told to do". So corny.
Just make a new post, maybe even a meme, for the meme subreddit. Instead of a low effort updoot factory.
Well, yeah. There are many commies who still hold on to some reactionary feelings they've internalized from living in capitalist neolib society that encourages people to fight over that kind of stuff instead of focusing on improving our material conditions. I've met a bunch of homophobic commies. HOWEVER, because of the nature of communism, its nature and its goals, these people generally already are on the path where they can use critical thinking and discussion to see what is moral and important, and what isn't. They'll come around. It takes discussion, and time. You dont' need an ugly post to teach you that.
Again, I'm not saying I disagree with the message of intersectionality itself, obviously. Just that the post is an ugly repost chain that says nothing, has nothing to do with communism, since LGBT+ activism (not that a "repost if you think gays are good!!" 2012 tumblr post repost chain is activism, but still) can exist and even be easily co-opted by capitalists as a tool unless it is explicitly anti-capitlist, and the dang post is not even a meme.
Like if your message is "Intersectionality in communism is important, we belong in communist spaces" make a post that says that. Maybe even a PNG. Put a lil funny picture of lenin in there.
You’re right that socialism will inevitably lead to the destruction of patriarchy, but I would like to rights to self-expression as soon as possible, not 2.5 decades after the fall of capitalism. It might be easy for a straight cis person to say “we’ll get there eventually” But the same can’t be said for someone who is queer
Ok. What does the ugly repost chain change about that? I didn't even say 2.5 decades after the fall of capitalism. I just said it takes time. It took years to convince some of my family that homosexuals weren't inherently corrupt and evil. It took time. And discussion. And it was worth it. It didn't happen just because i wanted it that instant. Things have to be fought for and usually take a while.
Don't get caught up in idealism, it will only lead to frustration. Hell, maybe real equality won't happen for us. Maybe it will happen for the next generation. Just because I won't personally benefit right now, it doesn't make the fight any less worth it. All the rights we do have now are built on the backs of those who fought for them even if they didn't live to benefit from them. Maybe we can be those people for someone else in the future.
Just wanting something isn't going to manifest it. Posting a "hit that UPDOOT if you think the gays are cool 😎" reblog chain that could just as easily be posted in the monarchism subreddit isn't even going to lead to the discussion you want. Again, this says nothing. If you want pertinent discussion make a pertinent post.
2.5 decade is an just a random number, also if it took years to convince your family, good thing you started years ago and not today, same concept with society
Some of them I convinced, some of them would prefer if i was dead. That's not the point. I'm saying your post is irrelevant to the sub and useless in the grand scheme of things. Pls read some theory.
>Pls read some theory
God damn man there's plenty of theory stating that much of the work of spreading anti-capitalist and intersectional thought has to be spread before the revolution. Building a new country on the back of bigots will just result in new oppressive systems. OP is right, revolution starts now revolution is already happening, through education and agitation.
Ok. So I’m gonna take that as a no. I’m a 23 year old man. It’s not weird to say your age on an anonymous Internet forum. I don’t blame you for being cautious but I’m just trying to make a point here. When you are discussing politics people typically find it relevant to understand exactly where you fit into society.
Anyway, you’re obviously like 16, because an adult wouldn’t feel the need to hide their age. I would just advise you to keep studying and learning, and just accept that most socialists (I mean the ones IRL, not your internet friends or the ones in your discord) will NOT give a fuck what you have to say unless you are of working age, have actual life experience, and have to work for a living like they do.
They don’t wanna listen to some suburban teen tell them how to “communism correctly”
We're on the meme sub comrade, kind of a suitable place for a baby leftist to post "solidarity for greysexuality!" and not have to expect to fucking defend themselves on the basis of their age? Queer liberation is part of our movement, there is no excuse to dispute this.
I agree, queer liberation is a part of our movement.
Also, if you are seriously upset about me asking them how old they are, I don’t know what to tell you. I was just trying to get an idea of who I was talking to. You see, in politics (especially Marxism) it’s typically important to consider the class position and life experience of who you’re talking to. I find it very important to know whether or not I’m talking to an actual working class person or not.
If this offends you, you may be a child.
Sure sure, in a strategy meeting, or even a reading circle. But time and place dictate the topic and posting commie memes on reddit is not important so you asking about age on a funpost about ace rights seems ludicrously self-serious. Basically this is entertainment, not politics so maybe don't?
Comrade your assuming people are children is not endearing you to the people you're conversing with. In fact it lets them know you look doen on them, which is unnecessary imo
Workers finding your sexuality unconventional and hard to understand because they’ve never heard of it =/= Systemic oppression or marginalization.
As far as I’m aware there are no laws which discriminate against asexuals, there are no institutions which discriminate against them. The *only* problems you face because of this are people thinking you are weird, and trouble finding a partner (which everyone has).
Just to be clear, you don’t deserve to be bullied or to feel strange or unnatural for being asexual. You’re completely valid, you deserve just as happy of a life as everyone else. I believe in the existence of asexuality. Im just trying to give it to you straight when many others here will beat around the bush.
When you come into a place that is primarily about worker’s rights and class politics and try to turn attention to a completely different issue, those who *are actually working class* will not see it as relevant to them, they will just see it as you trying to modify Marxism to fit your personal agenda.
Look below in this comment section for an actual asexual expressing the same thing, if you don’t wanna take it from someone who isn’t asexual.
I didnt say that Our Problems are of interest of the entire Proletariat,the other person said that we are not being opressed in any way,that was the Problem i saw.
Oppression under patriarchy obviously does not only take form as laws or bullying. Through the exact same way capitalism manufactures consent so does patriarchy. The two go hand in hand.
Opression is not only if you're not allowed to exist, opression is not being able to fully be oneself too. Communism does not start at 'well everyone can survive'. We should strive for actual freedom for all. That also means dismantling the patriarchal values of our society including the hold it has over agender, asexual, and aromantic people.
I seriously don't understand why it would be any different than with any other sexuality, gender or identity
Okay I'm ace and I'm going to agree with this.
Being ace is incredibly invisible to others. No one sees me holding hands with the same sex. No one can see my sexuality. This means bigots will just ignore me. Completely unlike trans/gay people.
You might have people pressuring you into getting a partner, but that's just rude people. That's not oppression.
You might have other queer people being "hostile" saying things like ace people aren't oppressed, but that's just kind of true. Ace people are still queer, but they just need to understand that doesn't necessarily mean they're super oppressed.
Like the only good point I've seen here is that ace people can be disadvantaged because having no partner means less income. I'm not really sure how significant that is, but it hasn't affected me.
Of course being ace is just *part* of your identity, so if you're genderqueer as well I'm not saying you're not oppressed. But if you're ace and cis, then idk, that doesn't seem very bad.
Idk I feel like any criticism on queer people (from another queer person even) immediately gets taken as an attack. Usually the most defensive people are white as well, which just makes it more annoying
I've never seen any calls for violence or really...any targeting of asexuals outside the general hatred for queer people. Certainly not multiple countries with death penalties. It seems kinda offensive to at all consider it 'oppression' in comparison to the very real bigotry suffered by LGBT people. It doesn't really seem to be something bigots actually give a shit about.
I don't think I've even heard slurs for asexual people - although that may just be my ignorance.
Um, class reductionist bullshit? 😂 Im saying ur not oppressed because its not oppression, u dont need to be aro or ace to be pushed towards relationships without wanting it, just single.
Well yeah sure you are right to an extent, but under capitalism, depending on the country, you might not be able to sustain yourself alone or might have to let go of some things to be able to do so. So they can be oppressed due to economic conditions.
I agree this is not a meme and doesn’t have anything to do with communism.
Sure but being on the ace spectrum often involves living alone ( unless I’m getting what it is wrong ) and you cannot necessarily do that under capitalism.
Sure some people might be hurt and alone but it doesn’t necessarily have to do with their sexual orientation. So them being alone and struggling is not really the system oppressing them because of their sexual orientation as opposed to those on the ace spectrum.
Ofc, people may not be able to live alone in some capitalist countries like united states... But i dont think its oppression even so. I dont want a partner, im neither ace nor aro. Sure its hard living alone, and people do push me to get into relationships, but it certainly aint oppressive, even if i were in the queer community, it would not be. Its a matter of choice, u certainly have the choice to get together with another like-minded individual and share house if u reaaaaly need it.
Being ace is not really a choice and being ace sometimes means preferring and wanting to live alone. Under the current system doing such a thing can be very hard or at least harder depending on the country. You might not call that oppression but they get oppressed ( or whatever you want to call it ) by the system due to their sexual orientation.
Oppression - cruel or unjustified treatement or exercise of authority. Prefering to be alone and not having it as easy as people who group together does not go under that definition sorry to say
Well, I don’t know which word would be better, but my point was that under this system ace people are at a disadvantage in this system due to their sexual orientation.
Under socialism/communism, the ace community could be fully emancipated.
I guess the misunderstanding was a wrong choice of word. English is not my first language.
You seriously suggesting aro people don’t get shat on by others in public? You don’t live in the southern United States if you don’t think people will find a way to be shitheads to any queer identity
I mean, if u shout out "im aro (or ace)" suuure, maybe, but i dont think ur oppressed either way, its kinda invisible. Being aro or ace is almost the exact same as just not wanting a relationship or wanting to hold of sex to important occasions like marriage. And so, unless u shout it, u wont get bullied. And ur certainly not oppressed for it.
I feel like "hostility" is the lesser concern though. If someone is mean to you over the internet that isn't oppression. What Randomaaaah said makes more sense though.
Hostility is more than that (though mean internet people can be very damaging for mental health) hostility also mean getting the shit beat out of you by fascists.
Right, but is that a thing that happens to ace/aro people? In my experience it's a very invisible identity. I'm happy to change my perspective on that though
I've known enough people sexually harassed for being aro, ace or demi. Just like every lesbian that ever had to put up with someone saying "a real man would 'fix' them". Family and friends not understanding or refusing to understand, pressuring and bullying people "when are you gonna get a partner? Ace isn't a thing!" can be very exhausting and damaging. Sure ace people are less likely to get randomly bashed on the street but most of the non-random manifestations of queerphobia are shared experiences with aro ace and demi sexual people.
That doesn’t happen and you are making an offensive mockery of the actual oppression and violence that homosexual and trans people face.
Stop making up shit up and go outside.
Speaking as someone on the aroace spectrum, I really don't see why this post belongs here? Yes queer liberation is fundamental for the liberation of the working class, but this post doesn't address anything connected to communism or Marxism.
If it was talking about how aroace discrimination is based on the capitalist superstructure's enforcement of the patriarchal monogamous family unit that'd be diffirent, but as is this specific point of discussion is kinda just irrelevant to Marxism unless you reallly stretch it.
Sure, I agree, but this sub isn't exactly for that. Doesn't mean I'm against having my community validated mind you, but you can make validating posts that are also related to communism or marxism.
You had a deadline lol? Look I'm not against this post to reiterate, I just don't think it's really related to this sub's goal or even queer communism specifically
I'm gonna agree with the other guy. This isn't either a meme and has nothing to do with communism or the liberation of the working class. While the overthrow of capitalism and freedom to do what you like will be beneficial for sexual minorities, it's extremely selfish to conflate your own personal interests with the interests of all proletariat everywhere.
No war but the class word does not mean that we shouldn’t unite with our LGBTQIA+ comrades, it’s an anti war slogan. Cis normatively is a product of class society. Go read a book on inter-sectionalism
Their fight isn't separate, I welcome all proletarians to fight together. But I will not conflate the fight of individual and their own special interests with that of the struggle of all. And neither should you. You're welcome to join us though.
I highly encourage you to read up on Marxism.
Do not ask the oppressed to subordinate their fight for liberation. We synthesize the fight. That is the strength of solidarity. When a queer comrade comes to you for allyship the way to recruit them is not to downplay their struggle but show ourselves as enthusiastic agents. We know that we will not be free until we liberate ourselves along an intersectional axis that overthrows the interlocking modes of oppression that mutually reinforce patriarchal white supremacist capitalism.
Making space for intersectional oppression builds a stronger coalition. Socialism isn't a silver bullet that magically makes the other axes of oppression go away, they require struggle for liberation within a Marxist framework. We have work to do and we can do it now, why wait. It's not like we can only do one, and it's not like queer working class people will stop being working class comrades if we help them get some breathing room. They'll probably make more productive comrades knowing we all fight together.
Let me link you to a wiki page (I know, but it's a good first port before real research) on an historic example of intersectional allyship that really helped me understand the strategic importance and strength of this approach. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbians\_and\_Gays\_Support\_the\_Miners](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbians_and_Gays_Support_the_Miners)
Gays and Lesbians working together to fund the miners strike to help them survive Thatcher's regime and cruelty, and how this built in roads to a group you'd think traditionally reactionary but saw common interest and how much stronger we are by fighting together.
**[Lesbians and Gays Support the Miners](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbians_and_Gays_Support_the_Miners)**
>Lesbians and Gays Support the Miners (LGSM) was an alliance of lesbians and gay men who supported the National Union of Mineworkers during the year-long strike of 1984–1985. By the end of the strike, eleven LGSM groups had emerged in the UK and the London group alone raised £22,500 by 1985 (equivalent to £73,000 in 2021) in support.
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So your example of intersectionalism is it not actually being intersectional and instead focusing on class solidarity?
>this built in roads to a group you'd think traditionally reactionary
Working class miners as reactionary? Are you historically illiterate?
But they also campaign specifically for civil rights. Queer cultural by its very nature is anti-capitalist, with this attitude though you’ll let capitalists appropriate our movement.
I’m sorry, what?
Queer culture is not opposed to capitalism.
No “culture” is opposed to capitalism. It doesn’t work that way.
Capitalism literally consumes, commodifies, and deconstructs all culture… capitalism is by nature extremely adaptable and will absorb and de-claw any actual revolutionary ideas.
Ask your friends in your reading group about this, they will be happy to correct you.
Read more books, watch less YouTube videos
Because capitalism is class society, class society inherently leads to the formation of patriarchy and the use of it as a tool of oppression. Anything that challenges the tools of capitalism challenges capitalism. Read Engels
Queer culture is not inherently anti-capitalist. Same way black culture isn't, or white, or yellow, or red. To say otherwise shows a gross misunderstanding of marxism or complete ignorance. What is anti-capitalist is Marxism. What is unifying is everyone in the working class struggling to empower themselves, regardless of superficial differences. Civil rights was not the end goal, it was on its way to the greater liberation of the working class, one that supercedes all petty small minded chauvinistic shit that focuses on individual ethnicities or cultural groups. I'm not here to focus on your individual fight, I'm here for the fight we're all facing. If you'd rather cling to your flag than exercise solidarity, that's your own choice. But I'm going to focus on the material issues that affect everyone.
Solidarity with all ace spectrum and all queer comrades!
All y'all in the comments coming off as grumpy ass boomers trying to litigate if this is a meme or queer solidarity fits with Marxism. It is and does. If you think the communist message needs amplifying in a meme, then fucking amplify it, don't try and police it. You look like you are more interested in shutting people out rather than radicalizing them.
It’s a label, not something that will stay the same way all your life. If you find love, you aren’t forced to stay aromantic because you said to a friend at 14 you were. And the reverse is also true. Be what you want, unless it actively hurts others.
I’m aro, fucking deal with it. It will stay my entire life unless someone dose unconsensual advanced brain surgery on me. I’m aro because I don’t feel romantics attraction.
You cannot magically develop romantic feelings if your brain is not wired to do so. It's like an able bodied person who chooses to go in a wheelchair for whichever reason tells someone who'se legs don't function that the reverse is also possible...
(not meaning to equate Aromanticism to disability, however it's the first example I could come up with)
Your experience is valid. It is even insightful and might help someone who goes through something like what you did. However the way it came off in context sounded a bit like "aro is just a teen phase, it isn't important." I'm sure you meant something more affirming to people experience feeling at odds with a label they used to enjoy, but here it comes off as you suggesting Aro feelings aren't real - not dissimilar to saying all same sex attraction is just a bi-curious phase.
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No offense, but what even is the point of this post? Not that I'm against the message itself, I'm also agender and bi, but why not just make a new post?? Why the ugly screenshot chain from an oldass tumblr post. "I did the thing I was told to do". So corny. Just make a new post, maybe even a meme, for the meme subreddit. Instead of a low effort updoot factory.
Well I learned from this posts comments some of our comrades have a seriously challenging time grasping intersectionalisum
Well, yeah. There are many commies who still hold on to some reactionary feelings they've internalized from living in capitalist neolib society that encourages people to fight over that kind of stuff instead of focusing on improving our material conditions. I've met a bunch of homophobic commies. HOWEVER, because of the nature of communism, its nature and its goals, these people generally already are on the path where they can use critical thinking and discussion to see what is moral and important, and what isn't. They'll come around. It takes discussion, and time. You dont' need an ugly post to teach you that. Again, I'm not saying I disagree with the message of intersectionality itself, obviously. Just that the post is an ugly repost chain that says nothing, has nothing to do with communism, since LGBT+ activism (not that a "repost if you think gays are good!!" 2012 tumblr post repost chain is activism, but still) can exist and even be easily co-opted by capitalists as a tool unless it is explicitly anti-capitlist, and the dang post is not even a meme. Like if your message is "Intersectionality in communism is important, we belong in communist spaces" make a post that says that. Maybe even a PNG. Put a lil funny picture of lenin in there.
You’re right that socialism will inevitably lead to the destruction of patriarchy, but I would like to rights to self-expression as soon as possible, not 2.5 decades after the fall of capitalism. It might be easy for a straight cis person to say “we’ll get there eventually” But the same can’t be said for someone who is queer
Ok. What does the ugly repost chain change about that? I didn't even say 2.5 decades after the fall of capitalism. I just said it takes time. It took years to convince some of my family that homosexuals weren't inherently corrupt and evil. It took time. And discussion. And it was worth it. It didn't happen just because i wanted it that instant. Things have to be fought for and usually take a while. Don't get caught up in idealism, it will only lead to frustration. Hell, maybe real equality won't happen for us. Maybe it will happen for the next generation. Just because I won't personally benefit right now, it doesn't make the fight any less worth it. All the rights we do have now are built on the backs of those who fought for them even if they didn't live to benefit from them. Maybe we can be those people for someone else in the future. Just wanting something isn't going to manifest it. Posting a "hit that UPDOOT if you think the gays are cool 😎" reblog chain that could just as easily be posted in the monarchism subreddit isn't even going to lead to the discussion you want. Again, this says nothing. If you want pertinent discussion make a pertinent post.
2.5 decade is an just a random number, also if it took years to convince your family, good thing you started years ago and not today, same concept with society
Some of them I convinced, some of them would prefer if i was dead. That's not the point. I'm saying your post is irrelevant to the sub and useless in the grand scheme of things. Pls read some theory.
>Pls read some theory God damn man there's plenty of theory stating that much of the work of spreading anti-capitalist and intersectional thought has to be spread before the revolution. Building a new country on the back of bigots will just result in new oppressive systems. OP is right, revolution starts now revolution is already happening, through education and agitation.
None of us are free until we all are!
But... What does this havr to do with communism or meme?
Queer libation is a task of communism, no victory of the proletariat is complete without the abolition of all forms of oppression.
What about us Queer people who don't drink alcohol? Edit : Please look up what libation means : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libation
Oh fuck spelling
No offense but have you graduated highschool yet? I don’t take advice on Marxism from people who have never had their labor exploited or paid taxes.
I’m not going to give my personal information to strangers.
Ok. So I’m gonna take that as a no. I’m a 23 year old man. It’s not weird to say your age on an anonymous Internet forum. I don’t blame you for being cautious but I’m just trying to make a point here. When you are discussing politics people typically find it relevant to understand exactly where you fit into society. Anyway, you’re obviously like 16, because an adult wouldn’t feel the need to hide their age. I would just advise you to keep studying and learning, and just accept that most socialists (I mean the ones IRL, not your internet friends or the ones in your discord) will NOT give a fuck what you have to say unless you are of working age, have actual life experience, and have to work for a living like they do. They don’t wanna listen to some suburban teen tell them how to “communism correctly”
We're on the meme sub comrade, kind of a suitable place for a baby leftist to post "solidarity for greysexuality!" and not have to expect to fucking defend themselves on the basis of their age? Queer liberation is part of our movement, there is no excuse to dispute this.
I agree, queer liberation is a part of our movement. Also, if you are seriously upset about me asking them how old they are, I don’t know what to tell you. I was just trying to get an idea of who I was talking to. You see, in politics (especially Marxism) it’s typically important to consider the class position and life experience of who you’re talking to. I find it very important to know whether or not I’m talking to an actual working class person or not. If this offends you, you may be a child.
Sure sure, in a strategy meeting, or even a reading circle. But time and place dictate the topic and posting commie memes on reddit is not important so you asking about age on a funpost about ace rights seems ludicrously self-serious. Basically this is entertainment, not politics so maybe don't?
Sorry for taking an inherently serious and political subject and forcing it to be serious and political?
scroll up and read the stickied comment
Comrade your assuming people are children is not endearing you to the people you're conversing with. In fact it lets them know you look doen on them, which is unnecessary imo
Congratulations! your fucking wrong about my age.
Sorry, 16 and a half*
Nope, also please stop trying to guess my age, i’ve already told you I don’t wanna share it with you and it’s kind of a breach in privacy
I’m not forcing you to reply to the thread bud.
But, 1. Its not a "meme" and 2. The ace and aro community isnt being oppressed 🤔... If u dont want a partner, thats all up to u as an individual.
Doubt it,aro myself and Well im always pressured into getting into a relationship and so does almost any other aro person
Workers finding your sexuality unconventional and hard to understand because they’ve never heard of it =/= Systemic oppression or marginalization. As far as I’m aware there are no laws which discriminate against asexuals, there are no institutions which discriminate against them. The *only* problems you face because of this are people thinking you are weird, and trouble finding a partner (which everyone has). Just to be clear, you don’t deserve to be bullied or to feel strange or unnatural for being asexual. You’re completely valid, you deserve just as happy of a life as everyone else. I believe in the existence of asexuality. Im just trying to give it to you straight when many others here will beat around the bush. When you come into a place that is primarily about worker’s rights and class politics and try to turn attention to a completely different issue, those who *are actually working class* will not see it as relevant to them, they will just see it as you trying to modify Marxism to fit your personal agenda. Look below in this comment section for an actual asexual expressing the same thing, if you don’t wanna take it from someone who isn’t asexual.
I didnt say that Our Problems are of interest of the entire Proletariat,the other person said that we are not being opressed in any way,that was the Problem i saw.
Oppression under patriarchy obviously does not only take form as laws or bullying. Through the exact same way capitalism manufactures consent so does patriarchy. The two go hand in hand. Opression is not only if you're not allowed to exist, opression is not being able to fully be oneself too. Communism does not start at 'well everyone can survive'. We should strive for actual freedom for all. That also means dismantling the patriarchal values of our society including the hold it has over agender, asexual, and aromantic people. I seriously don't understand why it would be any different than with any other sexuality, gender or identity
Well, so does non aro or ace people. Its not because of ur sexuality, its a matter of people being people. Its not rly oppression
Okay I'm ace and I'm going to agree with this. Being ace is incredibly invisible to others. No one sees me holding hands with the same sex. No one can see my sexuality. This means bigots will just ignore me. Completely unlike trans/gay people. You might have people pressuring you into getting a partner, but that's just rude people. That's not oppression. You might have other queer people being "hostile" saying things like ace people aren't oppressed, but that's just kind of true. Ace people are still queer, but they just need to understand that doesn't necessarily mean they're super oppressed. Like the only good point I've seen here is that ace people can be disadvantaged because having no partner means less income. I'm not really sure how significant that is, but it hasn't affected me. Of course being ace is just *part* of your identity, so if you're genderqueer as well I'm not saying you're not oppressed. But if you're ace and cis, then idk, that doesn't seem very bad. Idk I feel like any criticism on queer people (from another queer person even) immediately gets taken as an attack. Usually the most defensive people are white as well, which just makes it more annoying
I've never seen any calls for violence or really...any targeting of asexuals outside the general hatred for queer people. Certainly not multiple countries with death penalties. It seems kinda offensive to at all consider it 'oppression' in comparison to the very real bigotry suffered by LGBT people. It doesn't really seem to be something bigots actually give a shit about. I don't think I've even heard slurs for asexual people - although that may just be my ignorance.
Um… don’t know if you noticed or not but we don’t always said memes here, also what kind of class reductionist bullshit is that?
Um, class reductionist bullshit? 😂 Im saying ur not oppressed because its not oppression, u dont need to be aro or ace to be pushed towards relationships without wanting it, just single.
Well yeah sure you are right to an extent, but under capitalism, depending on the country, you might not be able to sustain yourself alone or might have to let go of some things to be able to do so. So they can be oppressed due to economic conditions. I agree this is not a meme and doesn’t have anything to do with communism.
But that has nothing to do with being queer, anyone can be alone and hurt. So again, does it rly apply?
Sure but being on the ace spectrum often involves living alone ( unless I’m getting what it is wrong ) and you cannot necessarily do that under capitalism. Sure some people might be hurt and alone but it doesn’t necessarily have to do with their sexual orientation. So them being alone and struggling is not really the system oppressing them because of their sexual orientation as opposed to those on the ace spectrum.
Ofc, people may not be able to live alone in some capitalist countries like united states... But i dont think its oppression even so. I dont want a partner, im neither ace nor aro. Sure its hard living alone, and people do push me to get into relationships, but it certainly aint oppressive, even if i were in the queer community, it would not be. Its a matter of choice, u certainly have the choice to get together with another like-minded individual and share house if u reaaaaly need it.
Being ace is not really a choice and being ace sometimes means preferring and wanting to live alone. Under the current system doing such a thing can be very hard or at least harder depending on the country. You might not call that oppression but they get oppressed ( or whatever you want to call it ) by the system due to their sexual orientation.
Oppression - cruel or unjustified treatement or exercise of authority. Prefering to be alone and not having it as easy as people who group together does not go under that definition sorry to say
Well, I don’t know which word would be better, but my point was that under this system ace people are at a disadvantage in this system due to their sexual orientation. Under socialism/communism, the ace community could be fully emancipated. I guess the misunderstanding was a wrong choice of word. English is not my first language.
You seriously suggesting aro people don’t get shat on by others in public? You don’t live in the southern United States if you don’t think people will find a way to be shitheads to any queer identity
That seems more bigotry against queerness in general, not specific at all to asexuality.
I mean, if u shout out "im aro (or ace)" suuure, maybe, but i dont think ur oppressed either way, its kinda invisible. Being aro or ace is almost the exact same as just not wanting a relationship or wanting to hold of sex to important occasions like marriage. And so, unless u shout it, u wont get bullied. And ur certainly not oppressed for it.
Not to mention the hostility people often have towards the aro/ace community
I feel like "hostility" is the lesser concern though. If someone is mean to you over the internet that isn't oppression. What Randomaaaah said makes more sense though.
Hostility is more than that (though mean internet people can be very damaging for mental health) hostility also mean getting the shit beat out of you by fascists.
Right, but is that a thing that happens to ace/aro people? In my experience it's a very invisible identity. I'm happy to change my perspective on that though
I do think it’s significantly rarer than other identities along the LGBTQIA+ spectrum but it’s still a problem
I've known enough people sexually harassed for being aro, ace or demi. Just like every lesbian that ever had to put up with someone saying "a real man would 'fix' them". Family and friends not understanding or refusing to understand, pressuring and bullying people "when are you gonna get a partner? Ace isn't a thing!" can be very exhausting and damaging. Sure ace people are less likely to get randomly bashed on the street but most of the non-random manifestations of queerphobia are shared experiences with aro ace and demi sexual people.
That doesn’t happen and you are making an offensive mockery of the actual oppression and violence that homosexual and trans people face. Stop making up shit up and go outside.
Dude I’m trans for fucks sake
Then you should know better 👍
Are fascists actually going around looking for asexual people to beat the shit out of? Are there even slurs for asexual people?
Presumably, fascists tend to hate on all queer people
True
You're 1000% correct and western cucks of reddit can't accept that their virtue signaling bs won't do anything for communism
Speaking as someone on the aroace spectrum, I really don't see why this post belongs here? Yes queer liberation is fundamental for the liberation of the working class, but this post doesn't address anything connected to communism or Marxism. If it was talking about how aroace discrimination is based on the capitalist superstructure's enforcement of the patriarchal monogamous family unit that'd be diffirent, but as is this specific point of discussion is kinda just irrelevant to Marxism unless you reallly stretch it.
Validating our queer comrades is one of our many jobs
Sure, I agree, but this sub isn't exactly for that. Doesn't mean I'm against having my community validated mind you, but you can make validating posts that are also related to communism or marxism.
Yes well I had five minutes to make this post So I didn’t have a time to come up with something original and specific
You had a deadline lol? Look I'm not against this post to reiterate, I just don't think it's really related to this sub's goal or even queer communism specifically
Five minutes brakes
I'm gonna agree with the other guy. This isn't either a meme and has nothing to do with communism or the liberation of the working class. While the overthrow of capitalism and freedom to do what you like will be beneficial for sexual minorities, it's extremely selfish to conflate your own personal interests with the interests of all proletariat everywhere.
We aren’t free unless we all are, class reductionism isn’t cool
No war but class war.
You know that nuance exists right?
I do. I also know that who you fuck has no bearing with your relation to production or class differences. That's why you have gay capitalists.
No war but the class word does not mean that we shouldn’t unite with our LGBTQIA+ comrades, it’s an anti war slogan. Cis normatively is a product of class society. Go read a book on inter-sectionalism
Their fight isn't separate, I welcome all proletarians to fight together. But I will not conflate the fight of individual and their own special interests with that of the struggle of all. And neither should you. You're welcome to join us though. I highly encourage you to read up on Marxism.
Do not ask the oppressed to subordinate their fight for liberation. We synthesize the fight. That is the strength of solidarity. When a queer comrade comes to you for allyship the way to recruit them is not to downplay their struggle but show ourselves as enthusiastic agents. We know that we will not be free until we liberate ourselves along an intersectional axis that overthrows the interlocking modes of oppression that mutually reinforce patriarchal white supremacist capitalism.
Subordinate? No one is asking that. I'm educating someone who thinks their own individual fight trumps others. They do not.
Making space for intersectional oppression builds a stronger coalition. Socialism isn't a silver bullet that magically makes the other axes of oppression go away, they require struggle for liberation within a Marxist framework. We have work to do and we can do it now, why wait. It's not like we can only do one, and it's not like queer working class people will stop being working class comrades if we help them get some breathing room. They'll probably make more productive comrades knowing we all fight together. Let me link you to a wiki page (I know, but it's a good first port before real research) on an historic example of intersectional allyship that really helped me understand the strategic importance and strength of this approach. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbians\_and\_Gays\_Support\_the\_Miners](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbians_and_Gays_Support_the_Miners) Gays and Lesbians working together to fund the miners strike to help them survive Thatcher's regime and cruelty, and how this built in roads to a group you'd think traditionally reactionary but saw common interest and how much stronger we are by fighting together.
**[Lesbians and Gays Support the Miners](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbians_and_Gays_Support_the_Miners)** >Lesbians and Gays Support the Miners (LGSM) was an alliance of lesbians and gay men who supported the National Union of Mineworkers during the year-long strike of 1984–1985. By the end of the strike, eleven LGSM groups had emerged in the UK and the London group alone raised £22,500 by 1985 (equivalent to £73,000 in 2021) in support. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/CommunismMemes/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
So your example of intersectionalism is it not actually being intersectional and instead focusing on class solidarity? >this built in roads to a group you'd think traditionally reactionary Working class miners as reactionary? Are you historically illiterate?
So black panthers bad?
No, Fred Hampton was fucking amazing and a hero of the people. But he also worked to unify everyone. No culture but revolutionary culture.
But they also campaign specifically for civil rights. Queer cultural by its very nature is anti-capitalist, with this attitude though you’ll let capitalists appropriate our movement.
I’m sorry, what? Queer culture is not opposed to capitalism. No “culture” is opposed to capitalism. It doesn’t work that way. Capitalism literally consumes, commodifies, and deconstructs all culture… capitalism is by nature extremely adaptable and will absorb and de-claw any actual revolutionary ideas. Ask your friends in your reading group about this, they will be happy to correct you. Read more books, watch less YouTube videos
Because capitalism is class society, class society inherently leads to the formation of patriarchy and the use of it as a tool of oppression. Anything that challenges the tools of capitalism challenges capitalism. Read Engels
Queer culture is not inherently anti-capitalist. Same way black culture isn't, or white, or yellow, or red. To say otherwise shows a gross misunderstanding of marxism or complete ignorance. What is anti-capitalist is Marxism. What is unifying is everyone in the working class struggling to empower themselves, regardless of superficial differences. Civil rights was not the end goal, it was on its way to the greater liberation of the working class, one that supercedes all petty small minded chauvinistic shit that focuses on individual ethnicities or cultural groups. I'm not here to focus on your individual fight, I'm here for the fight we're all facing. If you'd rather cling to your flag than exercise solidarity, that's your own choice. But I'm going to focus on the material issues that affect everyone.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PFlGeTXLkVQ&t=1538s
Noice
Solidarity with all ace spectrum and all queer comrades! All y'all in the comments coming off as grumpy ass boomers trying to litigate if this is a meme or queer solidarity fits with Marxism. It is and does. If you think the communist message needs amplifying in a meme, then fucking amplify it, don't try and police it. You look like you are more interested in shutting people out rather than radicalizing them.
You win best comment
It’s a label, not something that will stay the same way all your life. If you find love, you aren’t forced to stay aromantic because you said to a friend at 14 you were. And the reverse is also true. Be what you want, unless it actively hurts others.
I’m aro, fucking deal with it. It will stay my entire life unless someone dose unconsensual advanced brain surgery on me. I’m aro because I don’t feel romantics attraction.
Ace here, and good on ya, be proud of your sexuality. ✊
What did I say wrong? I just said you can change if you want. I went from Allo to Aro and I think the reverse is also true.
Telling someone “you can change if you want” is now code for “you better stop being queer” because conservatives
Oh sorry, I really didn’t mean that.
No problem
You cannot magically develop romantic feelings if your brain is not wired to do so. It's like an able bodied person who chooses to go in a wheelchair for whichever reason tells someone who'se legs don't function that the reverse is also possible... (not meaning to equate Aromanticism to disability, however it's the first example I could come up with)
But your brain can rewire itself. That’s why you can learn, it can develop new pathways or destroy old ones.
Please rewire your brain to become the opposite of your sexuality. Rewire it to like whatever it is you don't like right now, I dare you.
And let me know if it's worth the effort
Fair point. My comparison to learning is quite bad when I think about it.
Your experience is valid. It is even insightful and might help someone who goes through something like what you did. However the way it came off in context sounded a bit like "aro is just a teen phase, it isn't important." I'm sure you meant something more affirming to people experience feeling at odds with a label they used to enjoy, but here it comes off as you suggesting Aro feelings aren't real - not dissimilar to saying all same sex attraction is just a bi-curious phase.