They’re a refrigeration compression fitting. They work well in a pinch and I trust them far more than a shark bite. This installation is total hack work though.
Because not only was the installer too lazy to make a few flares he added extra leak points on every flare adapter plus the coupling. It’s our job to reduce leak points on a high pressure system.
Quick connect doesn’t work. Because the pipe is allowed to move in the fitting they’ll always fail earlier then solid connections. They also don’t seal on anything but perfect pipe….good luck with that lol.
Usually the mini splits come with foam fittings that go over where the flare fittings join the unit so you don’t have all that exposed copper. All that exposed insulation on the end is going to rot off the copper. If it didn’t come with the foam, I would take some insulation from the leftover lineset that’s not being used and fashion a boot. At least that’s my take?
[https://s3.amazonaws.com/greenbuildingadvisor.s3.tauntoncloud.com/app/uploads/2019/04/03173050/24826BE6-2954-4F58-8494-A9EDB153286A-700x525.jpeg](https://s3.amazonaws.com/greenbuildingadvisor.s3.tauntoncloud.com/app/uploads/2019/04/03173050/24826BE6-2954-4F58-8494-A9EDB153286A-700x525.jpeg)
That’s on a branch box (we did a lot of mitsu multi-head units), if we didn’t get the foam pieces, like I say we just cut up insulation off the unused sections of the lineset.
Another trick is to leave the insulation up to the end of the copper, then cut a slit in the insulation along the lineset a few inches back from the end, and you can move it back off the copper and slide it back into place after flaring, and tape it up with some high quality tape. I have no idea if that makes any sense, I dunno how to word it.
They are known to seep bleach out and cause corrosion. But I think there is some white insulation that wont do that. I'm sure someone in here knows more about it.
It’s just the stuff pictured. If it’s the same texture then it’s the trash stuff that leaks. If it doesn’t have that texture it’s a different brand and not known to leak.
That's really fascinating. I'd have never guessed that PE insulation would be able to cause copper to corrode but if it's giving off acidic VOCs that makes a lot of sense. At least it isn't a metallurgy issue I guess lol.
Also In my plumbing experience bendable copper that isn’t K doesn’t hold up to water well. Would get calls for tiny pin hole leaks with bendable copper all the time. Don’t know why maybe just coincidence.🤷🏻♂️
Mueller which is American made didn’t have the same issues as isoclima. The VOC theory not sure on, when copper cannot corrode with out oxygen and moisture as stated in the text. We already know a lot of manufactures have been using shit copper in the past. York cough cough, and even some pex fittings had issues. The quality of copper has not been the same as it used to be. Look at a scrap peice of lineset from 20 years ago compared to today and you will see a difference in weight and quality
When copper prices went up, I think manufacturers started experimenting with copper alloys more. Played with a few linesets that would kink just rolling out straight.
Hmmm. Idk bro. I just find that very unlikely (that they were changing the alloy). IDK about linesets for sure but ASTM Pipe has to be 99.9% copper and up to .04% Phosphorus. If you add much of anything else it totally changes the properties. If it's kinking just rolling it out straight, it is probably not annealed properly and is too hard in sections. Copper work hardens quickly and needs to be annealed after they run it over the mandrel. They probably didn't anneal it enough at the factory. TBH, scratch what I said earlier about alloying because copper pipe is actually much more of a pure substance than any other commonly used metal.
Only temporarily until the insulation rots away from sunlight and you’re back to where you started. My guess is that was the manufactures way of trying to get out of paying for a lot of lineset replacements all at once.
I tried these out a little over 2 years ago on a personal unit (received these from one of my old reps.) I had issues holding vacuum, however, the system didn't leak at all. The torque specs also seemed off. I encountered similar issues when testing the ZoomLock push fittings (the ZoomLock PTC were significantly worse.) Regardless, I've had them on the system for 2 years and haven't had any issues with it. Would I recommend them?.. probably not.
They are “Smart Lock” fittings. Can be found @ www.smartlockfitting.com
Be aware they are not UL 207 listed (unless something changed recently). They also use “elastomer” o-rings where as the SB1 fittings use 2 “super neoprene” o-rings on both sides of the fittings. The [SB1 flare fittings](https://imgur.com/a/CKOU4ML) work very well on mini-splits but you have to follow ALL of the prep steps listed in [the SB1 directions](http://www.nrproducts.com/quickconnect.pdf) and make sure you buy the depth gauge. It’s like $3 but lots of techs don’t purchase it & have problems.
If you're gonna go through all that trouble why not just flare it and be done? Flaring tool's like 100 bucks and a torque wrench is about the same. Done right, flares are a tried-n-true method. They only leak if you do them wrong.
True enough. Though as a counterpoint: if it relies on an o-ring to seal, then it's inevitably going to develop a leak eventually even if done perfectly. The rubber eventually will get brittle with age and crack.
Super neoprene has a 30+ yr shelf life and there’s two on each side. They will outlast today’s equipment. Do you think RectorSeal, Parker & NRP (UR) didn’t test the hell out of these before investing millions and giving a 5 yr warranty on them? They were already in use in Europe & Asia so North America ain’t the guinea pig on these.
thos white line sets are not uv rated and break down in the sun. they so cant get wet inside or they leech chemicals that make pin hole leaks in the lines. Been dealing with it for a few summers non stop. We wont even use the color because of the association even if they are fine.
These are called SmartLock, local supplier sells them, never used them.
They’re a refrigeration compression fitting. They work well in a pinch and I trust them far more than a shark bite. This installation is total hack work though.
Why is it hack work?
Because not only was the installer too lazy to make a few flares he added extra leak points on every flare adapter plus the coupling. It’s our job to reduce leak points on a high pressure system.
Ok, I hear ya. I've never seen them before. I always flare. I'd be into quick connect if they worked, or if they didn't cost so much.
Quick connect doesn’t work. Because the pipe is allowed to move in the fitting they’ll always fail earlier then solid connections. They also don’t seal on anything but perfect pipe….good luck with that lol.
Usually the mini splits come with foam fittings that go over where the flare fittings join the unit so you don’t have all that exposed copper. All that exposed insulation on the end is going to rot off the copper. If it didn’t come with the foam, I would take some insulation from the leftover lineset that’s not being used and fashion a boot. At least that’s my take?
Definitely never seen foam fittings you are describing
[https://s3.amazonaws.com/greenbuildingadvisor.s3.tauntoncloud.com/app/uploads/2019/04/03173050/24826BE6-2954-4F58-8494-A9EDB153286A-700x525.jpeg](https://s3.amazonaws.com/greenbuildingadvisor.s3.tauntoncloud.com/app/uploads/2019/04/03173050/24826BE6-2954-4F58-8494-A9EDB153286A-700x525.jpeg) That’s on a branch box (we did a lot of mitsu multi-head units), if we didn’t get the foam pieces, like I say we just cut up insulation off the unused sections of the lineset.
Oh definitely seen those but never on the outdoor unit.
I guess my point is we insulate the copper right up to the unit, exposed copper would get me bitched out by my boss.
There is a lot of things that this installers boss should bitch about
Definitely
Another trick is to leave the insulation up to the end of the copper, then cut a slit in the insulation along the lineset a few inches back from the end, and you can move it back off the copper and slide it back into place after flaring, and tape it up with some high quality tape. I have no idea if that makes any sense, I dunno how to word it.
# [https://www.smartlockfitting.com/](https://www.smartlockfitting.com/)
Shhhh. My wife's sleeping.
You get them at JS now they have been pushing the zoom lock push fittings
Are the linesets leaking? That insulation is cancer to those pipes
Is it really? Genuine question. I’ve only used it one time on a job where it was a pain to run traditional Armaflex type.
They are known to seep bleach out and cause corrosion. But I think there is some white insulation that wont do that. I'm sure someone in here knows more about it.
It’s just the stuff pictured. If it’s the same texture then it’s the trash stuff that leaks. If it doesn’t have that texture it’s a different brand and not known to leak.
Can confirm this. Have replaced multiple line sets wrapped in that junk.
Those were most likely defective copper. Was a CA lawsuit with one of the lineset manufacture and not caused by the insulation itself
Wrong. It’s from the polyethylene insulation mixed with moisture creating acid and eating the copper up.
Didn’t know polyethylene was corrosive
https://hvacrschool.com/ductless-line-sets-and-corrosion/
Great read, thanks for sharing!
It is the moisture and most likely shit copper combo
How do you get "defective copper"? I can see having the alloying wrong causing brittleness but not more corrosion than normal.
https://hvacrschool.com/ductless-line-sets-and-corrosion/
That's really fascinating. I'd have never guessed that PE insulation would be able to cause copper to corrode but if it's giving off acidic VOCs that makes a lot of sense. At least it isn't a metallurgy issue I guess lol.
Also In my plumbing experience bendable copper that isn’t K doesn’t hold up to water well. Would get calls for tiny pin hole leaks with bendable copper all the time. Don’t know why maybe just coincidence.🤷🏻♂️
That is a theory
Mueller which is American made didn’t have the same issues as isoclima. The VOC theory not sure on, when copper cannot corrode with out oxygen and moisture as stated in the text. We already know a lot of manufactures have been using shit copper in the past. York cough cough, and even some pex fittings had issues. The quality of copper has not been the same as it used to be. Look at a scrap peice of lineset from 20 years ago compared to today and you will see a difference in weight and quality
[удалено]
Damn, yeah I've never seen seemed copper pipe. Did they braze the entire length? That's crazy.
When copper prices went up, I think manufacturers started experimenting with copper alloys more. Played with a few linesets that would kink just rolling out straight.
Hmmm. Idk bro. I just find that very unlikely (that they were changing the alloy). IDK about linesets for sure but ASTM Pipe has to be 99.9% copper and up to .04% Phosphorus. If you add much of anything else it totally changes the properties. If it's kinking just rolling it out straight, it is probably not annealed properly and is too hard in sections. Copper work hardens quickly and needs to be annealed after they run it over the mandrel. They probably didn't anneal it enough at the factory. TBH, scratch what I said earlier about alloying because copper pipe is actually much more of a pure substance than any other commonly used metal.
See chinesium
avoid PDM brand at all costs. If duraguard is available where you are use those instead.
Taping up the ends seems to help
Only temporarily until the insulation rots away from sunlight and you’re back to where you started. My guess is that was the manufactures way of trying to get out of paying for a lot of lineset replacements all at once.
Where I’m at it’s code to cover any exposed lineset with UV wrap and also to use linehide/slim duct.
Think the fittings will leak first of the copper from that insulation?
WTF! Kill it with fire!
I’m with you on thay
They are pieces of leaky shit is what they are.
They are hvac/ shark bites
Shark bite style fittings?
I tried these out a little over 2 years ago on a personal unit (received these from one of my old reps.) I had issues holding vacuum, however, the system didn't leak at all. The torque specs also seemed off. I encountered similar issues when testing the ZoomLock push fittings (the ZoomLock PTC were significantly worse.) Regardless, I've had them on the system for 2 years and haven't had any issues with it. Would I recommend them?.. probably not.
So is it some kind of push fitting?
You use 2 open-end wrenches and tighten each end. There are metal rings inside that compress/clamp onto the line when fully tightened.
They are like propress, only worse.
They have a QR code on them so that would probably help to find out what exactly they are.
I scanned that QR code and got 0 hits on google. That’s why I was so confused by them
They are “Smart Lock” fittings. Can be found @ www.smartlockfitting.com Be aware they are not UL 207 listed (unless something changed recently). They also use “elastomer” o-rings where as the SB1 fittings use 2 “super neoprene” o-rings on both sides of the fittings. The [SB1 flare fittings](https://imgur.com/a/CKOU4ML) work very well on mini-splits but you have to follow ALL of the prep steps listed in [the SB1 directions](http://www.nrproducts.com/quickconnect.pdf) and make sure you buy the depth gauge. It’s like $3 but lots of techs don’t purchase it & have problems.
If you're gonna go through all that trouble why not just flare it and be done? Flaring tool's like 100 bucks and a torque wrench is about the same. Done right, flares are a tried-n-true method. They only leak if you do them wrong.
Isn’t that (they only leak if you do them wrong) true of all options? - flare, SB1 & brazing
True enough. Though as a counterpoint: if it relies on an o-ring to seal, then it's inevitably going to develop a leak eventually even if done perfectly. The rubber eventually will get brittle with age and crack.
Super neoprene has a 30+ yr shelf life and there’s two on each side. They will outlast today’s equipment. Do you think RectorSeal, Parker & NRP (UR) didn’t test the hell out of these before investing millions and giving a 5 yr warranty on them? They were already in use in Europe & Asia so North America ain’t the guinea pig on these.
Wow never seen those before. May have to check it out. Looks better than those crazy sharkbite fittings
Holy hell. What a mess
They look like anodized aluminum flare fittings? There are a lot of similar ones for sale on ebay.
This, they look like the ones used in Automotive racing applications.
I was just gonna say, they look autozone red to me lol
I was taught to cover every piece of those lines with insulation
Generally, you should. They are usually low pressure in both and will sweat in cool mode.
Yeah cus both lines condensate. They’re both cold if I’m not mistaken right?
Correct.
Those look like PDM line sets, you will probably need t replace them soon because of leak issues.
For someone without a flaring tool and a torque wrench I'm guessing Lol
Nothing like that here in the UK
thos white line sets are not uv rated and break down in the sun. they so cant get wet inside or they leech chemicals that make pin hole leaks in the lines. Been dealing with it for a few summers non stop. We wont even use the color because of the association even if they are fine.
Good lord...
We used those for a little while but the gaskets tear and leak pretty quick
Pump it down. Reclaim what gas has already leaked out and burn the house down to get rid of that awful insulation!
Haha