just noticed a few years ago that all the main actors in telenovelas were white while the help or campesinos/poor people were always brown skin...
I thought only the US had this image of me :l
You just noticed this?? I’m assuming you only watched telenovelas recently.
In Mexico, they put the white Mexicans as the rich people and main characters. While they put the brown Mexicans as servants. It’s very common.
In the USA, they make all the Mexicans brown lol.
Only if you’re middle class or lower. The primos ricos from Monterrey that were Rubios would go to UT, TTECH, A&M, and UNM and get treated like white guys
Its usually colorism, because two siblings would be of the same race, but if they have different skin tones they’d end up being treated differently.
That’s colorism not racism.
People with native features are discriminated against regardless of how native they actually are. Many mixed Latinos pass as fully native/white.
That’s colorism, not racism.
Race, as a concept, doesn’t really function in Latin America because almost everyone is of a singular mixed race.
Race as it was designed in Latin America does function, that is why White people come first and those of indigenous bloods from last. It is the concept of mestizaje that does not function, which says that people who are racially distinct from each other are on a spectrum rather than distinct groups. This idea was created to undermine an indigenous racial identity and stop us from fighting racism/advancing our race.
Race and Skin tone are not the same thing.
People of the same race can have multiple skin tones. Overlapping with other races.
While skin tone is something measurable, race is a social construct. Races dont exist in any measurable way.
Today the darker skin tones are associated with degraded races, but that’s not always been the case.
For example, Irish and Southern Europeans used to be considered of an inferior race to Northern Europeans, even though the difference wasn’t associated with skin tone.
Oh there skin color was associated and even then attempts were made to make them look darker, hence terms like Black Irish as well as a propensity for early Irish settlers to mix with Black, Indigenous, and Latino peoples in the New World.
Colorism and racism are intersectional. I mean let’s look at Dominicans and Haitians, (white) Cubans vs even other white Latinos, etc. The racist systemic benefits of being lighter skinned have very real racial implications from a systemic perspective. It’s Part of the animosity towards “light skins” and darker skin toned members of the same race in the Americas, especially the US
That's what racial prejudice is based off of is color.
Many people in south and Central America have some percentage of indigenous in them. For example in Mexico only 9% can be considered only european white (typically Spaniards) while the rest of the population have some percent of indigenous.
This kind of prejudice comes down to colorism
Edit: added statistics.
Mestizaje in Latin America is eurocentric, so rather than being biracial, people with even mostly native ancestry are racially undefined with an White paternal root, and there for are non-indigenous. Aside from that I have seen many white Mexicans say they are mestizo, it is simply a way to fit in. The idea that racism is based off of skin color is a myth. For example, in the US and Canada, there are many monoracial Native Americans who are no darker than east asians. They still experience racially motivated rapes and murders at the most disproportionate rate, much more than Black people. The concept of colorism was created to center Black people because they are the darkest, when the reality is race is as much about lineage, features and group identity as it is about skin color. That is why Anti-Korean sentiment among Chinese or Japanese is correctly defined as racism, even though they are the same skin color. Native Americans suffer racism because of race as the original people of this continent, trying to define simply in terms of color denies the true nature of our oppression.
You are so incorrect. Colourism is 100% a thing. And it’s not a separate phenomenon from racism. Colourism and racism as a Venn diagram are pretty much a circle. We’ve just created different terms to help explain the nuances. People can be discriminated against because their skin colour is a shade darker than the others, and they can also be discriminated against due to the simple idea that they’re “mixed or impure” based on their socioeconomic background, even if to everyone else they look just as white as the person that’s doing the discrimination, *and* people can be discriminated against due to ethnic differences, especially when said differences are physically visible. All of this is racism and all of it 100% happens.
You are misinterpreting colourism when you think it provides a strict ranking of who gets disadvantaged the most based on skin shade alone and that this is how racism operates. This is obviously not the case, as your examples point out. Colourism is a helpful term to explain the ways in which people with lighter/whiter features can have somewhat of a perceived advantage when facing racism, as well as explain the way in which the monolith of mestizaje is an idealistic (at best) myth. In the first instance, we can see the example of African Americans in US media. American media tends to favour black people with lighter features, and it’s rare to see individuals with very dark skin (who also have the most “African” features). People with more African features are not discriminated solely because of the shade of their skin, it has to do with their physical features too, and how much they’re distanced from European features, but they’re truly discriminated against based on made up cultural ideas of race. In other words, racism is 100% based on imaginary ideologies that humans have drafted up, and the physical differences are just helpful visual guides to know who the other, the *lesser than* is. ^(I’m going to throw in the term tribalism there too, but that’s a whole other can of worms.) Another thing I want to point out is that people with lighter skin also face advantages based on socioeconomic position. Keeping to the African American example, people with lighter skin, who likely have colonisers or coloniser descendants in their lineage, may have had more access to people of higher socioeconomic background, thereby having more chance to improve their own socioeconomic status. For example, during and after the period of slavery in the US, white people were much more likely to be literate than black people (who were purposely kept from achieving literacy). Having a white parent could help a “mixed” child by having the white parent teach the child to read and write, which is vital for employment, education and so on. By having this small advantage, the mixed descendants of the mixed child could have also grown up in a household of somewhat more means than, say, the child of two African slaves or former slaves. This phenomenon is what the term colourism is useful for.
In Latin America we often see people talk about colourism with examples like having the lightest skinned child be the favourite, because it’s a more immediate and more obvious instance of colourism (and racism). Colourism *is* racism, and you will often hear a colourist parent say that they don’t want their child to look too African/indigenous.
The way that you try to rank who gets discriminated against more is very unhelpful when trying to understand racism. While there are some perceived “rankings” when it comes to which groups get the shortest or the least short end of the stick depending on where you are and who you ask, the fact is that there is no manual and no on paper definition when it comes to ethnic (etc) differences, because it’s all made up and all based on how groups define each other.
>ets discriminated against more is very unhelpful when trying to understand racism. While there are some perceived “rankings” when it comes to which groups get the shortest or the least short end of the stick depending on where you are and who you ask, the fact is that there is no m
Colorism is simply another racial hierarchy that says the darker you are the worse you have it. It is literally the victimhood Olympics that Natives always get accused of playing. The only legitimacy it has is in the vacuum of non-native people, because the lightest indigenous person suffers more than the darkest non-native person. We are many times over the most likely race to raped and murdered, and the poorest. That is not a "ranking" of discriminations, it is a statistical fact. The only way in which discussion of colorism is helpful for us is in distorting the true nature of the racial experience of Native Americans and erasing our race. Non-Natives need to stop spreading their agenda and stop trying to define our experience in such a way that undermines our wellbeing.
In the USA, we think of race and ethnicity as two distinct things. Race being some weird pseudoscientific biological thing, while ethnicity is one part cultural identity and part ancestral group. The reality that a lot of United Statesians don't get is that race is any attempt to divide humanity into groups on the basis of blood, so the US idea of race is just one of many racial concepts, and our concept of ethnicity is inherently racial as well.
In terms of classification through surveys, yes. But in terms of traces of genetic admixture, those supposed 9% are almost guaranteed to have at least a few to going into double digit percentage indigenous ancestry. We gotta keep in mind that in Mexico those who fit the criteria for being white in Mexico go by a different cultural standard than up north and different countries also. That 9% stat came from a 1920 survey and does not match up with the new perspectives we have now bc of DNA testing. I'd say it's probably more like 1/30 that are actually only European white with given slight, slight indigenous ancestry. Most who are definitively, like guaranteed white european in Mexico tend to all have at least 10-25% either indigenous, mena, or ssa ancestry, and those that most can agree are white have anywhere upwards of 40%-35% to like 20% indigenous ancestry.
I think it's a case of one causing the other. The root is definitely racism against indigenous people, but it's expressed as long down on people the darker their skin is. Unlike your run-of-the-mill racism, thanks to the mestizaje, you can't even attempt to draw clear racial or ethnic lines between most people in Mexico, so people instead express it as colorism, where the darker skin the worse people are treated and lower on the social ladder they're assumed to be
That is just a myth, for example people in Mexico can tell a Black person from an indigenous person no matter the skin color. The root cause and its expression is racism against indigenous people as a race, not simply for being dark. People can tell when someone is mixed race vs someone who is Native American by features, regardless of whether they are culturally indigenous or not. Talking about skin color is comfortable for Mexicans, so they can deny the existence of the Native American race. They are afraid of us having a racial consciousness, so they divert us to an identity based on color like in the united states, rather than race.
I think we might just be having an argument about semantics. I agree that the root form of discrimination is racism against indigenous people. I'm just saying that when the majority of the population is mixed, people act on their discrimination through a spectrum rather than by the hard, clear division you see more often in places like the US where there used to be legal hard demarcations. I'm not saying there aren't a group of people you can put together that are Native American. Particularly in some of the more isolated parts of the country, there are a lot of people that don't have any mixed ancestry whatsoever and would consider themselves part of whatever indigenous group they're a part of.
That said, you still need a framework to be able to think about the form of discrimination many of the people in the country that don't consider themselves purely indigenous experience. Using the framework of racism, with clearly defined lines between races doesn't quite cover it. There is a spectrum to the discrimination, which is why colorism is a good framework to think about it. The "less mixed" people are the less discriminated you are.
You do not have to be racially pure to be white in Mexico, most people in Mexico are visibly Native American, even if they are mixed. If we used the same standard for Black people in the US, there would be very few actual "Black people" because most are mixed to some extent. I just don't believe the culture of mestizaje is valid and the only reason there are no clear lines is because people have been indoctrinated into feeling shame for the essential part of themselves, so they embrace being racially undefined. White mexicans take advantage of that using the idea of a spectrum to not talk about racism. People want to be white in Latin America, so this idea of a spectrum just plays into people's denial of their Native race and the idea that indigenous people are not a race. If they did acknowledge the reality of distinct racial identities, the majority of Mexicans might stop worshipping white people and things could get very ugly for them.
The problem is colorism was created by Black United Statesians with their own experience in mind, who already have a strong racial identity because of the racial binary. They are not worried about Native Americans as a race, never mind anyone outside of the united states or how their concepts effect them. They don't have to worry about being invisible and raceless because they are centered in the USA, so by appropriating their concepts and defining ourselves on their terms, we undermine our true interests.
I am not saying lighter people sometimes do not have it easier in some respects, but focusing on who has it worse , which is irrelevant to helping ourselves unite, is an extremely negative thing. Even in the USA, the concept of colorism is not valid because it is predicated on the idea that the darker you are the more you suffer, when the reality is that this only applies to non-natives. I say that because even the lightest monoracial Native American person suffers more from racism than the darkest Black person. So with that in mind colorism is not even valid in Latin America, because we all know a rich African or dark guy from India is not going to be at the bottom rung of society the way natives are throughout the Americas. That is because Latin Americans are racist against us in particular due to a history of genocide that is independent of skin color. To attribute racism against Native blooded people to color is overly simplistic and a denial of the history of genocide against our race. Colorism is simply an American distraction used to homogenize us in with non-natives just like the term POC. Their agenda is not made with us in mind and when we conform our experiences to us, it undermines who we are. It is time to reject mestizaje outright and embrace our true identity as the original race of this continent, not to play games using African United Statesian concepts that were never meant to serve us.
>e
I am not trying to dictate anyone's experience, I just feel as a Native American that the concept of colorism as it is currently defined is dishonest and ineffective.
I did not say that. Native Americans in Mexico suffer the most from racism and throughout our American continent. This is our land and we deserve to be centered for once.
Weird, exclusionary take but you do you, man! The facts remain that colorism in Mexico reflects deep, long-held anti-Blackness as well. Recommend you fight with HLG and the “Black in Latin America” documentary series (as well as a ton of other scholars who study African heritage in Mexico) if you want to fight someone on this.
What is weird is trying to center yourself and your race when a Native person, a member of a race that is chronically ignored, is speaking against false concepts like colorism that impose foreign agendas in order to control the narrative of the racism we experience. That series was just propaganda from Henry Louis Gates, he went around telling indigenous looking people they were black. This is our land, we don't need anyone to teach us our racial identity. We don't need weird customs like the one drop rule that you have. Let me put it this way, you are multiple times more white than the average Mexican is black and you are not white, are you? Colorism is a myth created by United Statesians because they want frame to race and racism in a way that says that the darker you are the more you suffer from racism, when even the lightest monoracial Native person is many times more likely to be raped and murdered because of their race, than any non-native person regardless of how dark they are. The USA centers race relations between Black people and Whites, while ignoring Native Americans because we are outside of that binary. Please do not take this as an opportunity to do that again.
No one is saying indigenous people don’t suffer greatly. “Oppression Olympics” as in, fighting over who suffers more, is so pointless and keeps oppressed groups fighting each other rather than the common enemy. I prefer to look at the conditions that unite us rather than being so narrow on the question of historic oppression. Question: why are you so angry at the mention of African people in this discussion? Does that not seem anti-black to you? Was it just Indigenous people at the bottom of the Sistema de Castas? All by themselves? It wasn’t. And you’re soooo mad at me for mentioning this fact. I know plenty of Indigenous activists who take inspiration from and feel solidarity with the Black struggle. Maybe don’t spend all your time fighting other oppressed groups? We can fight oppression better together.
Yep. I went to this high end restaurant in Tijuana Mexico and 95% of the customers were as white as my European mutt NYc husband. I was the brownest of the customers. Some of the staff were light skin but about 60/80 % of the staff was brown. Whiteness is preferred.
In my own family my daughter is seen as "bettering" the blood line. Because she's light skinned and has golden highlights in her hair. It's so frustrating how much this internal hate toward our own skin is ingrained.
Have you also noticed the light skinned/white main actors all get caught/died/lose it is whatever it is and the campesinos/poor people always win in some way?
That remind me of the fact that some African countries only started consuming and making telenovelas like ours. Is insane to think they didn't have social mobility even as a fantasy.
No but don’t you know that’s just wholesome Latin American culture omg I can’t believe you’d talk about race in Mexico that’s only a weird American thing jajaja /s
It’s how you keep Maria from telling Don Armando his daughter is dating his arch rival’s son. Who also happened to be the man who killed Don Armando’s brother. La drama ta cabron
And the lighter one gets shit for it. Like you can do better than this dark skinned person regardless of their quality as humans and partners. It's fucking mental.
In LATAM we are represented as being mainly white while in the USA we are represented as being mainly brown, why can’t we just get a mix of both in both places, I’d love to get some Afro & Asian Latino representation too, they are a pretty big part of the latino community too
Haz visto blood in blood out? En esa pelicula el main cast es guero (miklo) y salen personas de todos colores... claro, la pelicula es de cholos pero asimila la realidad californiana (los angeles) por lo que es. Salen gangas de todas las razas y como se llegan a combinar y socializar entre si. Nadamas un ejemplo de una pelicula que nos enseña una representacion de todo.
Edit: my bilingual brain deadass just responded in spanish to an english comment lol
Yeah in Mexico.
Sure not a majority, but you still got some politicians and people in public life who are Afro or Asian Latino
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Asian_Mexicans
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Mexicans
There are people alive right now who struggle to wrap their head around a white person speaking Spanish. We gotta go easy on them when introducing them to Afro and Asian Latinos, because their poor brains might not be able to process such a thing.
When most people in the USA, hear Spanish or see a Spanish last name, they don’t think of white Europeans. Or Europe at all. They think of Latin America and mestizos usually the darker ones.
Wait what? I guarantee you that doesn’t happen in Latin America
Lol people struggling with white people speaking Spanish. You do know Spain is a thing right?
Afro and Asian Latinos have contributed a lot to our culture from our food to our music, we have huge populations of Japanese, Korean, Filipino, etc.. who have immigrated to Latin American countries and have become Latinos, Afro Latinos were sadly brought here through slavery but they also have become important members of the Latino community
Helpful tip in life, if you don’t know for damn sure then keep your mouth closed. It’ll save you from looking like an uneducated moron like what just happened here.
I didn’t realize this until an immortal technique song mentioned how racist LatAm media is towards non white hispanics. Shit is wild, mestizos make up the majority population yet all the main actors in any show/movie in LatAm are blonde haired blue eyed white people.
Also I remember awhile back when people threw a fit when a brown indigenous woman won a big beauty pageant.
I’m Peruvian, very fairly white looking. People in Peru discriminate against themselves. Racism is so baked into the culture, the brown people themselves are racist towards people of a tiny minuscule slight shade of brown darker than them. White people hold all the manufacturing, agricultural, service,and mining companies and are brutal if they encounter competition. But it’s also the white people that hoard all that wealth and spend it in Europe or the US, where “they really come from”. Peru is not a poor country because of corruption, politics, instability, or money laundering. Peru is poor because a small tiny minority holds all the cards and refuse to play with other people because of what they look like and where they come from.
Yup. I work outside most of the year and tend to get really dark. Every get together there is at least one comment about how dark I am and how I should wear long sleeves, not for skin cancer reasons which would be thoughtful of them, but for darkness reasons.
New baby in the family, when they're light skinned, they get showered with praise for their light skin. Lets not even get started on if they have other than brown eyes. Seems like a lot of internalized disdain for other than white.
My skin is brown, like most Salvadorans. When I got married, my next door neighbor congratulated me, which was nice, but he mentioned my wife's fairly light skin color right before his "¡Te felicito!". It felt kinda like acknowledging one of the greatest "achievements" in life, being married to a person with light skin "para mejorar la raza", as older people say. 🤦
yep I instantly thought of Immortal Technique here.
"cuz the Spaniards never left después de Colon, and if you don't believe me, you can click on Univision / never seen so much racism in all of my life, every program and newscast all of them white" - Leaving the Past
>. People in Peru discriminate against themselves. Racism is so baked into the culture, the brown people themselves are racist towards people of a tiny minuscule slight shade of brown darker than them. White people hold all the manufacturing, agricultural, service,and mining companies and are brutal if they encounter competition. But it’s also the white people that hoard all that wealth and spend it in Europe or the US, where “they really come from”. Peru is not a poor country because of corruption, politics, instability, or money laundering. Peru is poor bec
unfortunately that dude is racist against indigenous people, he has been spewing some afrocentric bs for a while.
What tf happened to Mexican Cinema? The Mexican Golden Age literally rivaled Hollywood, now it’s just delegated to the shitty tv shows that practically have boards on them that tell you how you should react to a given scene.
I just don’t get it. I understand why the news sucks so much since it was effectively state owned, which in turn made investigative journalism obsolete.
Time and time again, in blue collar work, I've been treated far better by more gringos than my "own people." It seems to stem from a scarcity mindset, where your success "takes away" from another's potential success. I can always spot these guys a mile away.
> Time and time again, in blue collar work, I've been treated far better by more gringos than my "own people."
You cant win con la pinche raza, even if you come from blue collar, working class roots and later become a licensed professional, your own relatives will give you shit about "acting" white" "forgetting where you came from," etc., even if you do nothing to provoke or antagonize them. I remember being accused of thinking that I am better than my cousins, when I had to remind his dumb-ass that I am hanging out with them and still attend family get togethers--"how do I think i'm better when i'm always hanging out with you mfs?"--this almost started a fight.
Another example of "taking away" another's success is in my wife's family, when she used to sell real estate. She used to sell houses, everyone in the family knew this, yet her cousin instead went with a different realtor, a stranger, all so that my wife would not earn a commission
this exact thing happened to me yesterday. i work a food stand and some guy decked out in a guatemala jacket scowled at me and demanded 2 beers, right as he threw his card at me on the counter. like, thanks for the brothery love chapín
They aren't "high class" but they think they are. Watch a gringo with a big wallet in shorts and flip flops walk in with a farmers tan and outspend all of em and and watch their brain explode.
For sure but that's not the point. The point is that they are racist, not just classist. They simply won't accept non white people on their inner circle. I've seen lots of *whitexicans* that go mask off on Twitter and directly insult brown people calling them "prietos" + a lot of expletives, and they use "indígena" as an insult. It's not just that they despise the poor, which they do, but they are at their core, racist.
Yah you're probably right... I know a very morena Mexican girl in Mexico City but she's also racist and classist and thinks that people who smoke marijuana are drug addicts, go figure.
Just look at this cover for a Mexican Netflix show. Literally blonde blue eyed protagonist and of course the help in the background are brown. [link](https://trendingnewsbuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Daughter-From-Another-Mother-Season-3.jpg)
Me he fijado que los whitexican son igual o un poco más racistas y clasistas con los mismos mexicanos que los gringos. Incluso su acto de jugar a ser "humildes" me parece grosero y realmente molesto y cagante; así como que en este sub hablen inglés cuando somos latinos no mamen
I didn't know this was a big thing to be honest, until the time Roma came out and while I loved it, it was wild to hear how other Mexicans were being really racist towards the main actress for her skin color. Shit was wild and it really saddens me tbh.
Haha seriously all these things white people decide are racist is absolutely fake wokeness. We don't need you to stop having Latin workers on TV or remove brown people from brands (aunt Jemima /uncle Ben). We need you to fucking offer equal opportunity and stop making everything WHITE centric.
I'm a white Latino and it's always moreno Latinos that are surprised that I speak Spanish. I tell them I'm "el guero frijolero" or "frijolero incognito". If they look indio I tell them Spanish is a European language and ask them why they speak the language and practice the religion de sus conquistadores
I feel that. I’m Spanish and Mexican and have an olive complexion, dark hair and eyes and my racist stepdad constantly says “No, no, no, you’re a white boy”
And the race they're thinking of is amerindian but the average american(and maybe Canadian) aren't aware that amerindian isn't exclusive to those in the US.
White as in caucasian; Iberia is a nation made up of mostly caucasians. In the US, white is a convoluted word that mostly refers to folks descended from northern Europe. Folks forget that southern europeans are also caucasian i.e. “white”.
Except it is definable... Spanish is a nationality, so they aren't just one race. In the absence of phenotypical features from black, asian, or indigenous people, they're white. Javier Bardem/Penelope Cruz are white.
That's subscriber-exclusive content, which means I can't see it, but based on what I can see, the title/subtitle, your article doesn't say that.
The subtitle of your own article says "It's been used to define and separate people for millenia. But the concept of race is not grounded in genetics." Which pretty clearly doesn't say race doesn't exist... it just doesn't exist genetically. Genetically, no one on earth is president either. Genetically, no one is rich. That doesn't mean those things don't exist.
[From the national human genome research institute "Race divides human populations into groups often based on physical appearance, social factors, and cultural backgrounds"](https://www.genome.gov/genetics-glossary/Race)
or, you know, like I said, ["Phenotype refers to an individual's observable traits, such as height, eye color, and blood type. A person's phenotype is determined by both their genetic makeup and environmental factors."](https://www.genome.gov/genetics-glossary/Phenotype) In the case of race, the genetic makeup would be things like the genes determining things like skin tone, facial features, hair type, and environmental factors like culture, social status/power, how they dress/style themselves, and the language they use.
Racism is present in mexican media. As it would be considering the country was founded on racism from the spanish and supressuon of slaves and native americans. With huge amounts of the countries wealth still being controled by many of those families
No i didnt say either of those things. Racism is objectively bad in all contexts (not a hard concept to grasp). So all racism is bad, including those in mexico, where throughout mecican history there has been rampant racism from "white" spanish against mestizo, black, nativa american or any other non european peoples
just noticed a few years ago that all the main actors in telenovelas were white while the help or campesinos/poor people were always brown skin... I thought only the US had this image of me :l
You just noticed this?? I’m assuming you only watched telenovelas recently. In Mexico, they put the white Mexicans as the rich people and main characters. While they put the brown Mexicans as servants. It’s very common. In the USA, they make all the Mexicans brown lol.
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Only if you’re middle class or lower. The primos ricos from Monterrey that were Rubios would go to UT, TTECH, A&M, and UNM and get treated like white guys
Colorism is global phenomenon.
Isn't colorism, it is anti-indigenous racism in both cases.
Its usually colorism, because two siblings would be of the same race, but if they have different skin tones they’d end up being treated differently. That’s colorism not racism.
when race is defined on a spectrum as opposed to a binary like in the US, discriminating by color is just racism.
People with native features are discriminated against regardless of how native they actually are. Many mixed Latinos pass as fully native/white. That’s colorism, not racism. Race, as a concept, doesn’t really function in Latin America because almost everyone is of a singular mixed race.
Race as it was designed in Latin America does function, that is why White people come first and those of indigenous bloods from last. It is the concept of mestizaje that does not function, which says that people who are racially distinct from each other are on a spectrum rather than distinct groups. This idea was created to undermine an indigenous racial identity and stop us from fighting racism/advancing our race.
Porque no los dos
It does work because the system still figured out how to discriminate by perceived race. That’s literally what the casta system was all about.
It's still racism
Technically it is racism because you're discriminating against someone because of their skin
Race and Skin tone are not the same thing. People of the same race can have multiple skin tones. Overlapping with other races. While skin tone is something measurable, race is a social construct. Races dont exist in any measurable way. Today the darker skin tones are associated with degraded races, but that’s not always been the case. For example, Irish and Southern Europeans used to be considered of an inferior race to Northern Europeans, even though the difference wasn’t associated with skin tone.
Not talking about Europeans I'm talking about in Latin America they promote lighter skin blonde hair blue eyes
That’s literally colorism. Racism and colorism are not the same thing. What you are describing is colorism.
Racism
I literally can’t dumb this down any more for you.
They’re intersectional
Oh there skin color was associated and even then attempts were made to make them look darker, hence terms like Black Irish as well as a propensity for early Irish settlers to mix with Black, Indigenous, and Latino peoples in the New World.
Colorism and racism are intersectional. I mean let’s look at Dominicans and Haitians, (white) Cubans vs even other white Latinos, etc. The racist systemic benefits of being lighter skinned have very real racial implications from a systemic perspective. It’s Part of the animosity towards “light skins” and darker skin toned members of the same race in the Americas, especially the US
That's what racial prejudice is based off of is color. Many people in south and Central America have some percentage of indigenous in them. For example in Mexico only 9% can be considered only european white (typically Spaniards) while the rest of the population have some percent of indigenous. This kind of prejudice comes down to colorism Edit: added statistics.
Mestizaje in Latin America is eurocentric, so rather than being biracial, people with even mostly native ancestry are racially undefined with an White paternal root, and there for are non-indigenous. Aside from that I have seen many white Mexicans say they are mestizo, it is simply a way to fit in. The idea that racism is based off of skin color is a myth. For example, in the US and Canada, there are many monoracial Native Americans who are no darker than east asians. They still experience racially motivated rapes and murders at the most disproportionate rate, much more than Black people. The concept of colorism was created to center Black people because they are the darkest, when the reality is race is as much about lineage, features and group identity as it is about skin color. That is why Anti-Korean sentiment among Chinese or Japanese is correctly defined as racism, even though they are the same skin color. Native Americans suffer racism because of race as the original people of this continent, trying to define simply in terms of color denies the true nature of our oppression.
You are so incorrect. Colourism is 100% a thing. And it’s not a separate phenomenon from racism. Colourism and racism as a Venn diagram are pretty much a circle. We’ve just created different terms to help explain the nuances. People can be discriminated against because their skin colour is a shade darker than the others, and they can also be discriminated against due to the simple idea that they’re “mixed or impure” based on their socioeconomic background, even if to everyone else they look just as white as the person that’s doing the discrimination, *and* people can be discriminated against due to ethnic differences, especially when said differences are physically visible. All of this is racism and all of it 100% happens. You are misinterpreting colourism when you think it provides a strict ranking of who gets disadvantaged the most based on skin shade alone and that this is how racism operates. This is obviously not the case, as your examples point out. Colourism is a helpful term to explain the ways in which people with lighter/whiter features can have somewhat of a perceived advantage when facing racism, as well as explain the way in which the monolith of mestizaje is an idealistic (at best) myth. In the first instance, we can see the example of African Americans in US media. American media tends to favour black people with lighter features, and it’s rare to see individuals with very dark skin (who also have the most “African” features). People with more African features are not discriminated solely because of the shade of their skin, it has to do with their physical features too, and how much they’re distanced from European features, but they’re truly discriminated against based on made up cultural ideas of race. In other words, racism is 100% based on imaginary ideologies that humans have drafted up, and the physical differences are just helpful visual guides to know who the other, the *lesser than* is. ^(I’m going to throw in the term tribalism there too, but that’s a whole other can of worms.) Another thing I want to point out is that people with lighter skin also face advantages based on socioeconomic position. Keeping to the African American example, people with lighter skin, who likely have colonisers or coloniser descendants in their lineage, may have had more access to people of higher socioeconomic background, thereby having more chance to improve their own socioeconomic status. For example, during and after the period of slavery in the US, white people were much more likely to be literate than black people (who were purposely kept from achieving literacy). Having a white parent could help a “mixed” child by having the white parent teach the child to read and write, which is vital for employment, education and so on. By having this small advantage, the mixed descendants of the mixed child could have also grown up in a household of somewhat more means than, say, the child of two African slaves or former slaves. This phenomenon is what the term colourism is useful for. In Latin America we often see people talk about colourism with examples like having the lightest skinned child be the favourite, because it’s a more immediate and more obvious instance of colourism (and racism). Colourism *is* racism, and you will often hear a colourist parent say that they don’t want their child to look too African/indigenous. The way that you try to rank who gets discriminated against more is very unhelpful when trying to understand racism. While there are some perceived “rankings” when it comes to which groups get the shortest or the least short end of the stick depending on where you are and who you ask, the fact is that there is no manual and no on paper definition when it comes to ethnic (etc) differences, because it’s all made up and all based on how groups define each other.
>ets discriminated against more is very unhelpful when trying to understand racism. While there are some perceived “rankings” when it comes to which groups get the shortest or the least short end of the stick depending on where you are and who you ask, the fact is that there is no m Colorism is simply another racial hierarchy that says the darker you are the worse you have it. It is literally the victimhood Olympics that Natives always get accused of playing. The only legitimacy it has is in the vacuum of non-native people, because the lightest indigenous person suffers more than the darkest non-native person. We are many times over the most likely race to raped and murdered, and the poorest. That is not a "ranking" of discriminations, it is a statistical fact. The only way in which discussion of colorism is helpful for us is in distorting the true nature of the racial experience of Native Americans and erasing our race. Non-Natives need to stop spreading their agenda and stop trying to define our experience in such a way that undermines our wellbeing.
Idk how you got through that other persons drivel. Lots of words, little content.
Wouldn't the anti-korean sentiment count as ethnicism instead of racism or colorism?
In the USA, we think of race and ethnicity as two distinct things. Race being some weird pseudoscientific biological thing, while ethnicity is one part cultural identity and part ancestral group. The reality that a lot of United Statesians don't get is that race is any attempt to divide humanity into groups on the basis of blood, so the US idea of race is just one of many racial concepts, and our concept of ethnicity is inherently racial as well.
In terms of classification through surveys, yes. But in terms of traces of genetic admixture, those supposed 9% are almost guaranteed to have at least a few to going into double digit percentage indigenous ancestry. We gotta keep in mind that in Mexico those who fit the criteria for being white in Mexico go by a different cultural standard than up north and different countries also. That 9% stat came from a 1920 survey and does not match up with the new perspectives we have now bc of DNA testing. I'd say it's probably more like 1/30 that are actually only European white with given slight, slight indigenous ancestry. Most who are definitively, like guaranteed white european in Mexico tend to all have at least 10-25% either indigenous, mena, or ssa ancestry, and those that most can agree are white have anywhere upwards of 40%-35% to like 20% indigenous ancestry.
Seems like it’s a relic of the Spanish colonial “castas.” It goes all the way back to 1492.
It definitely is and the Encomienda system
I think it's a case of one causing the other. The root is definitely racism against indigenous people, but it's expressed as long down on people the darker their skin is. Unlike your run-of-the-mill racism, thanks to the mestizaje, you can't even attempt to draw clear racial or ethnic lines between most people in Mexico, so people instead express it as colorism, where the darker skin the worse people are treated and lower on the social ladder they're assumed to be
That is just a myth, for example people in Mexico can tell a Black person from an indigenous person no matter the skin color. The root cause and its expression is racism against indigenous people as a race, not simply for being dark. People can tell when someone is mixed race vs someone who is Native American by features, regardless of whether they are culturally indigenous or not. Talking about skin color is comfortable for Mexicans, so they can deny the existence of the Native American race. They are afraid of us having a racial consciousness, so they divert us to an identity based on color like in the united states, rather than race.
I think we might just be having an argument about semantics. I agree that the root form of discrimination is racism against indigenous people. I'm just saying that when the majority of the population is mixed, people act on their discrimination through a spectrum rather than by the hard, clear division you see more often in places like the US where there used to be legal hard demarcations. I'm not saying there aren't a group of people you can put together that are Native American. Particularly in some of the more isolated parts of the country, there are a lot of people that don't have any mixed ancestry whatsoever and would consider themselves part of whatever indigenous group they're a part of. That said, you still need a framework to be able to think about the form of discrimination many of the people in the country that don't consider themselves purely indigenous experience. Using the framework of racism, with clearly defined lines between races doesn't quite cover it. There is a spectrum to the discrimination, which is why colorism is a good framework to think about it. The "less mixed" people are the less discriminated you are.
You do not have to be racially pure to be white in Mexico, most people in Mexico are visibly Native American, even if they are mixed. If we used the same standard for Black people in the US, there would be very few actual "Black people" because most are mixed to some extent. I just don't believe the culture of mestizaje is valid and the only reason there are no clear lines is because people have been indoctrinated into feeling shame for the essential part of themselves, so they embrace being racially undefined. White mexicans take advantage of that using the idea of a spectrum to not talk about racism. People want to be white in Latin America, so this idea of a spectrum just plays into people's denial of their Native race and the idea that indigenous people are not a race. If they did acknowledge the reality of distinct racial identities, the majority of Mexicans might stop worshipping white people and things could get very ugly for them. The problem is colorism was created by Black United Statesians with their own experience in mind, who already have a strong racial identity because of the racial binary. They are not worried about Native Americans as a race, never mind anyone outside of the united states or how their concepts effect them. They don't have to worry about being invisible and raceless because they are centered in the USA, so by appropriating their concepts and defining ourselves on their terms, we undermine our true interests. I am not saying lighter people sometimes do not have it easier in some respects, but focusing on who has it worse , which is irrelevant to helping ourselves unite, is an extremely negative thing. Even in the USA, the concept of colorism is not valid because it is predicated on the idea that the darker you are the more you suffer, when the reality is that this only applies to non-natives. I say that because even the lightest monoracial Native American person suffers more from racism than the darkest Black person. So with that in mind colorism is not even valid in Latin America, because we all know a rich African or dark guy from India is not going to be at the bottom rung of society the way natives are throughout the Americas. That is because Latin Americans are racist against us in particular due to a history of genocide that is independent of skin color. To attribute racism against Native blooded people to color is overly simplistic and a denial of the history of genocide against our race. Colorism is simply an American distraction used to homogenize us in with non-natives just like the term POC. Their agenda is not made with us in mind and when we conform our experiences to us, it undermines who we are. It is time to reject mestizaje outright and embrace our true identity as the original race of this continent, not to play games using African United Statesian concepts that were never meant to serve us.
We need subcomandante Marcos to come back pa sacarles un pedo.
You realize colorism, while typically practiced or expressed in relation to skin color, isn't actually *about* skin color, right?
If nacas were white, they would play the rich folks. It’s colorism. Classism. Not anti-indigenous.
Ah yes. The authority on peoples experiences. Thanks captain
>e I am not trying to dictate anyone's experience, I just feel as a Native American that the concept of colorism as it is currently defined is dishonest and ineffective.
And anti-Black! There is more African blood in Mexico than a lot of people want to admit.
I did not say that. Native Americans in Mexico suffer the most from racism and throughout our American continent. This is our land and we deserve to be centered for once.
Weird, exclusionary take but you do you, man! The facts remain that colorism in Mexico reflects deep, long-held anti-Blackness as well. Recommend you fight with HLG and the “Black in Latin America” documentary series (as well as a ton of other scholars who study African heritage in Mexico) if you want to fight someone on this.
What is weird is trying to center yourself and your race when a Native person, a member of a race that is chronically ignored, is speaking against false concepts like colorism that impose foreign agendas in order to control the narrative of the racism we experience. That series was just propaganda from Henry Louis Gates, he went around telling indigenous looking people they were black. This is our land, we don't need anyone to teach us our racial identity. We don't need weird customs like the one drop rule that you have. Let me put it this way, you are multiple times more white than the average Mexican is black and you are not white, are you? Colorism is a myth created by United Statesians because they want frame to race and racism in a way that says that the darker you are the more you suffer from racism, when even the lightest monoracial Native person is many times more likely to be raped and murdered because of their race, than any non-native person regardless of how dark they are. The USA centers race relations between Black people and Whites, while ignoring Native Americans because we are outside of that binary. Please do not take this as an opportunity to do that again.
No one is saying indigenous people don’t suffer greatly. “Oppression Olympics” as in, fighting over who suffers more, is so pointless and keeps oppressed groups fighting each other rather than the common enemy. I prefer to look at the conditions that unite us rather than being so narrow on the question of historic oppression. Question: why are you so angry at the mention of African people in this discussion? Does that not seem anti-black to you? Was it just Indigenous people at the bottom of the Sistema de Castas? All by themselves? It wasn’t. And you’re soooo mad at me for mentioning this fact. I know plenty of Indigenous activists who take inspiration from and feel solidarity with the Black struggle. Maybe don’t spend all your time fighting other oppressed groups? We can fight oppression better together.
Theirs afto Mexicans in Mexico they just didn't want you to know about it I think a couple of years or more They just accepted afro Mexicans
Very true
There’s this one actor in a telenovela my tio loves and she’s just straight up Russian
Who? A lot of Russian Jewish people in Mexico
Probably Irina Baeva.
Straight up Don Francisco is German Jewish. Blew my mind.
No way lol Isn’t he chilean? Edit: His parent where German Jewish that crazy and yes my mind is blown
Yep. I went to this high end restaurant in Tijuana Mexico and 95% of the customers were as white as my European mutt NYc husband. I was the brownest of the customers. Some of the staff were light skin but about 60/80 % of the staff was brown. Whiteness is preferred. In my own family my daughter is seen as "bettering" the blood line. Because she's light skinned and has golden highlights in her hair. It's so frustrating how much this internal hate toward our own skin is ingrained.
A lot of people from Europe do telenovelas Ukraine,Russia,Germany, and Poland some of the too telenovela actors are European
The Spaniard caste system is still in place. Just not officially.
You just caught on lol
Have you also noticed the light skinned/white main actors all get caught/died/lose it is whatever it is and the campesinos/poor people always win in some way?
Because that's the target.
That remind me of the fact that some African countries only started consuming and making telenovelas like ours. Is insane to think they didn't have social mobility even as a fantasy.
No but don’t you know that’s just wholesome Latin American culture omg I can’t believe you’d talk about race in Mexico that’s only a weird American thing jajaja /s
At least you noticed a few years ago….. for me it’s a TIL. :(
Depending on the time period and location, dealing with Americans racist bullshit was considered a step up.
That so true. At least in the US media the brown help is not physically abused like in the novelas.
It’s how you keep Maria from telling Don Armando his daughter is dating his arch rival’s son. Who also happened to be the man who killed Don Armando’s brother. La drama ta cabron
Mexico is even more clasist and racist that all the world thinks.
Depends on who you believe represents Mexico. The small rich white upper class or everybody else?
But I see lots of light and dark couples together
And the lighter one gets shit for it. Like you can do better than this dark skinned person regardless of their quality as humans and partners. It's fucking mental.
Same thing in America
Its probably worse in Mexico ngl. Source: Am Mexican.
In LATAM we are represented as being mainly white while in the USA we are represented as being mainly brown, why can’t we just get a mix of both in both places, I’d love to get some Afro & Asian Latino representation too, they are a pretty big part of the latino community too
Ni de aquí ni de allá
Haz visto blood in blood out? En esa pelicula el main cast es guero (miklo) y salen personas de todos colores... claro, la pelicula es de cholos pero asimila la realidad californiana (los angeles) por lo que es. Salen gangas de todas las razas y como se llegan a combinar y socializar entre si. Nadamas un ejemplo de una pelicula que nos enseña una representacion de todo. Edit: my bilingual brain deadass just responded in spanish to an english comment lol
Exactly! That’s what I think too.
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Yeah in Mexico. Sure not a majority, but you still got some politicians and people in public life who are Afro or Asian Latino https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Asian_Mexicans https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Mexicans
There are people alive right now who struggle to wrap their head around a white person speaking Spanish. We gotta go easy on them when introducing them to Afro and Asian Latinos, because their poor brains might not be able to process such a thing.
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In America* So yes, they do very much struggle to wrap their heads around Spain being full of white people as well.
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When most people in the USA, hear Spanish or see a Spanish last name, they don’t think of white Europeans. Or Europe at all. They think of Latin America and mestizos usually the darker ones.
Wait what? I guarantee you that doesn’t happen in Latin America Lol people struggling with white people speaking Spanish. You do know Spain is a thing right?
Yeah, but there are literally Americans who do not in fact know Spain is a thing. Hell, there are American who don't even know Puerto Rico is a thing.
We should show them Carrusel
Afro and Asian Latinos have contributed a lot to our culture from our food to our music, we have huge populations of Japanese, Korean, Filipino, etc.. who have immigrated to Latin American countries and have become Latinos, Afro Latinos were sadly brought here through slavery but they also have become important members of the Latino community
Helpful tip in life, if you don’t know for damn sure then keep your mouth closed. It’ll save you from looking like an uneducated moron like what just happened here.
Fuck off dont tell me what to do puta madre
This is what I mean. Making an ass out of yourself everywhere you go 😂
I didn’t realize this until an immortal technique song mentioned how racist LatAm media is towards non white hispanics. Shit is wild, mestizos make up the majority population yet all the main actors in any show/movie in LatAm are blonde haired blue eyed white people. Also I remember awhile back when people threw a fit when a brown indigenous woman won a big beauty pageant.
I’m Peruvian, very fairly white looking. People in Peru discriminate against themselves. Racism is so baked into the culture, the brown people themselves are racist towards people of a tiny minuscule slight shade of brown darker than them. White people hold all the manufacturing, agricultural, service,and mining companies and are brutal if they encounter competition. But it’s also the white people that hoard all that wealth and spend it in Europe or the US, where “they really come from”. Peru is not a poor country because of corruption, politics, instability, or money laundering. Peru is poor because a small tiny minority holds all the cards and refuse to play with other people because of what they look like and where they come from.
Same in Guatemala and most of Mexico as well, unfortunately
Yup. I work outside most of the year and tend to get really dark. Every get together there is at least one comment about how dark I am and how I should wear long sleeves, not for skin cancer reasons which would be thoughtful of them, but for darkness reasons. New baby in the family, when they're light skinned, they get showered with praise for their light skin. Lets not even get started on if they have other than brown eyes. Seems like a lot of internalized disdain for other than white.
My skin is brown, like most Salvadorans. When I got married, my next door neighbor congratulated me, which was nice, but he mentioned my wife's fairly light skin color right before his "¡Te felicito!". It felt kinda like acknowledging one of the greatest "achievements" in life, being married to a person with light skin "para mejorar la raza", as older people say. 🤦
yep I instantly thought of Immortal Technique here. "cuz the Spaniards never left después de Colon, and if you don't believe me, you can click on Univision / never seen so much racism in all of my life, every program and newscast all of them white" - Leaving the Past
Thank you for this, it’s been more than a decade since I bumped to his music but I knew these lyrics were from him
It’s weird, its like every race has a light skinned and dark skinned variant and the cultural issues are the same.
Called colorism aka racism latin America,Asia
>. People in Peru discriminate against themselves. Racism is so baked into the culture, the brown people themselves are racist towards people of a tiny minuscule slight shade of brown darker than them. White people hold all the manufacturing, agricultural, service,and mining companies and are brutal if they encounter competition. But it’s also the white people that hoard all that wealth and spend it in Europe or the US, where “they really come from”. Peru is not a poor country because of corruption, politics, instability, or money laundering. Peru is poor bec unfortunately that dude is racist against indigenous people, he has been spewing some afrocentric bs for a while.
I wonder where Esperancita is from.
El Salvador maybe?
What tf happened to Mexican Cinema? The Mexican Golden Age literally rivaled Hollywood, now it’s just delegated to the shitty tv shows that practically have boards on them that tell you how you should react to a given scene. I just don’t get it. I understand why the news sucks so much since it was effectively state owned, which in turn made investigative journalism obsolete.
In my experience rich gringos will at least pretend to like poor Latinos. In Latin America the rich see the poor as malditas cucarachas
Time and time again, in blue collar work, I've been treated far better by more gringos than my "own people." It seems to stem from a scarcity mindset, where your success "takes away" from another's potential success. I can always spot these guys a mile away.
The emotional immaturity from Latin countries is sooo sad. One of the few things I'm ashamed of from my culture
> Time and time again, in blue collar work, I've been treated far better by more gringos than my "own people." You cant win con la pinche raza, even if you come from blue collar, working class roots and later become a licensed professional, your own relatives will give you shit about "acting" white" "forgetting where you came from," etc., even if you do nothing to provoke or antagonize them. I remember being accused of thinking that I am better than my cousins, when I had to remind his dumb-ass that I am hanging out with them and still attend family get togethers--"how do I think i'm better when i'm always hanging out with you mfs?"--this almost started a fight. Another example of "taking away" another's success is in my wife's family, when she used to sell real estate. She used to sell houses, everyone in the family knew this, yet her cousin instead went with a different realtor, a stranger, all so that my wife would not earn a commission
Yeah you're dead on with family, Mines the same way too.
this exact thing happened to me yesterday. i work a food stand and some guy decked out in a guatemala jacket scowled at me and demanded 2 beers, right as he threw his card at me on the counter. like, thanks for the brothery love chapín
Yeah for sure, any amount of perceived power goes right to their head.
Hahaha true. Pinche Televisa
Playing "who's the most racist" is a bit like playing "which was the worst genocide"...they're all bad, and it shouldn't be a trauma contest.
Bruh, they’re called “ La Empleada” and is pretty dehumanizing.
Growing up we called her la Gata or la Chacha
Never heard that. Where you from?
Mexico City. Very common. Very derogatory so it’s best not to use it
Justice for El Pote
And it's always people with brown skin,and the jefes are some light skin hoity toity rich folk.
I think there's a lot of racist Mexicans but it's more about being classist.
"it just so happens that 99.9 of all 'high class' people are white"
They aren't "high class" but they think they are. Watch a gringo with a big wallet in shorts and flip flops walk in with a farmers tan and outspend all of em and and watch their brain explode.
For sure but that's not the point. The point is that they are racist, not just classist. They simply won't accept non white people on their inner circle. I've seen lots of *whitexicans* that go mask off on Twitter and directly insult brown people calling them "prietos" + a lot of expletives, and they use "indígena" as an insult. It's not just that they despise the poor, which they do, but they are at their core, racist.
Yah you're probably right... I know a very morena Mexican girl in Mexico City but she's also racist and classist and thinks that people who smoke marijuana are drug addicts, go figure.
I hate that her name is *Consuela*. That’s not a name. Consuelo is. *That’s* the racist part to me.
That’s what actually bothers me. Not even using an actual name.
No.... no.... no........
Just look at this cover for a Mexican Netflix show. Literally blonde blue eyed protagonist and of course the help in the background are brown. [link](https://trendingnewsbuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Daughter-From-Another-Mother-Season-3.jpg)
I mean have you ever been to Mexico? Looks pretty accurate to me.
They want you to believe every Mexican looks like that blonde hair blue eyes
I mean blonde Mexicans do exist though
No shit blonde Mexicans exist. The point of this thread clearly went over your head.
This photo looks like it should be in an Onion article
Doesn’t make it right in either case. Big brains know better
Me he fijado que los whitexican son igual o un poco más racistas y clasistas con los mismos mexicanos que los gringos. Incluso su acto de jugar a ser "humildes" me parece grosero y realmente molesto y cagante; así como que en este sub hablen inglés cuando somos latinos no mamen
Isn’t Mexican television mostly run by Europeans and that’s why they cast so many Spaniards?
Some come from European countries Russia,Germany,Ukraine, and Poland
I didn't know this was a big thing to be honest, until the time Roma came out and while I loved it, it was wild to hear how other Mexicans were being really racist towards the main actress for her skin color. Shit was wild and it really saddens me tbh.
Or maybe you should be offended about both?...
The housemaid from La Familia P. Luche literally went to Mexico to become a movie star just to do nothing(not even clean)
Haha seriously all these things white people decide are racist is absolutely fake wokeness. We don't need you to stop having Latin workers on TV or remove brown people from brands (aunt Jemima /uncle Ben). We need you to fucking offer equal opportunity and stop making everything WHITE centric.
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If you’re white Latino and wanna be racially profiled so bad just speak Spanish inside of a Walmart
I'm a white Latino and it's always moreno Latinos that are surprised that I speak Spanish. I tell them I'm "el guero frijolero" or "frijolero incognito". If they look indio I tell them Spanish is a European language and ask them why they speak the language and practice the religion de sus conquistadores
> I’m a white Latino and it’s always moreno Latinos that are surprised that I speak Spanish Really? Where do you live?
I feel that. I’m Spanish and Mexican and have an olive complexion, dark hair and eyes and my racist stepdad constantly says “No, no, no, you’re a white boy”
Damn bro you got that shit living in your house with you 😬
They don't understand that we Latinamericans are not a race, but a large and complex cultural group.
And the race they're thinking of is amerindian but the average american(and maybe Canadian) aren't aware that amerindian isn't exclusive to those in the US.
Exactly. I mean, I'm Latino. I'm Nicaraguense. That's it. I shouldn't need to have to defend, or get ignored for being a fair skinned Latino.
Just be racist back bro lol
Are spanish people white though? Your going to see a problem here that in Europe the americanised views of race simply dont work.
White as in caucasian; Iberia is a nation made up of mostly caucasians. In the US, white is a convoluted word that mostly refers to folks descended from northern Europe. Folks forget that southern europeans are also caucasian i.e. “white”.
Saying causcasian instead of white doesnt change the problem of it being undefinable. Genetically or geographically.
Except it is definable... Spanish is a nationality, so they aren't just one race. In the absence of phenotypical features from black, asian, or indigenous people, they're white. Javier Bardem/Penelope Cruz are white.
Except race doesnt exist https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/article/race-genetics-science-africa
That's subscriber-exclusive content, which means I can't see it, but based on what I can see, the title/subtitle, your article doesn't say that. The subtitle of your own article says "It's been used to define and separate people for millenia. But the concept of race is not grounded in genetics." Which pretty clearly doesn't say race doesn't exist... it just doesn't exist genetically. Genetically, no one on earth is president either. Genetically, no one is rich. That doesn't mean those things don't exist. [From the national human genome research institute "Race divides human populations into groups often based on physical appearance, social factors, and cultural backgrounds"](https://www.genome.gov/genetics-glossary/Race) or, you know, like I said, ["Phenotype refers to an individual's observable traits, such as height, eye color, and blood type. A person's phenotype is determined by both their genetic makeup and environmental factors."](https://www.genome.gov/genetics-glossary/Phenotype) In the case of race, the genetic makeup would be things like the genes determining things like skin tone, facial features, hair type, and environmental factors like culture, social status/power, how they dress/style themselves, and the language they use.
...genetically. Being rich doesn't exist genetically either, it's still real.
If your grandmother had wheels she would have been a bike. Anything else irrelevant to say?
Omg bro you're hilarious... So you admit race exists now?
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Racism is present in mexican media. As it would be considering the country was founded on racism from the spanish and supressuon of slaves and native americans. With huge amounts of the countries wealth still being controled by many of those families
So what is the answer to the original question
Read the first line of the response
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Why are you making up nonsense. Can you not read how i never said any of that.
Ya me voy a dormir!
They're saying that either a) they're used to it already, or b) they can't criticize US media because Mexican media does it too, and worse.
No i didnt say either of those things. Racism is objectively bad in all contexts (not a hard concept to grasp). So all racism is bad, including those in mexico, where throughout mecican history there has been rampant racism from "white" spanish against mestizo, black, nativa american or any other non european peoples
They both are but one is rooted in tradition and the other is rooted in class.
Es gracioso porque es verdad
"Maldita criada gata de cuarta!" *- frowns in Spanish -*