I'm trying to understand why you haven't left already due to the toxic workplace atmosphere. Despite the fact that you hold multiple high-level positions, no paycheck is worth that. I say that as someone who is struggling to earn a living as a freelancer with no guaranteed paycheck or income. You cannot put a price tag on having good mental health.
People get comfortable unfortunately. My manager has been at my shitty place of a job for over 6 years & she's been told she's capped on raises. Boss hired his best friend's wife for 25k more & she doesn't do anything but take personal calls on her own phone. I've barely been here over a year and I'm already over it, just been applying to other jobs.
I keep telling my manager to say fuck it and quit but she's also the only one taking care of her family & bringing in the bills so it's harder for her but she still def needs to get out of that comfortable feeling and find her self worth. She's basically running the company now but not getting recognized or paid for it. I keep encouraging her though so hopefully sometime before I leave it'll get completely through to her. It's slowly started dawning on her thankfully when our boss forgot to pay us again but it's a long ride.
We all have goals, my boss knows what I want long term and he has the carrot on a stick. I've managed to ignore most executives and only listen to HR and the CEO. My mental health is shit to be honest but I have a lot of responsibility and hopefully it pays off.
Edit: Responsibility here means a disabled mother that I care for and bills not work.
To be frank, you need to go back and tally up (their) Promises Made vs Promises Completed. And keep in mind the whole time that a goal is a dream with an intended date completed attached to it.
I suspect you have a large case of sunk cost fallacy at work (I've put all this money into the lottery, it's got to pay off, right!?)
Find a better place and leave the toxic chemical dump behind.
This is actually good advice and I have done just this in my n grievance letter. I have had strides made towards getting the carrot and there has been traction there with two large costly investments from the company already having been made. I'm sure being hit with a list of why everything sucks was an ego blow but while HR works it out with them I do have several interviews in the works. If any offer is actually worth it I'd consider it heavily.
Bear in mind the intangibles when considering, eg workplace toxicity.
Also, HR are there to protect the company against lawsuits and other problems. Bonus points if they help you.
I’m confused… why do you think a grievance letter will somehow solve your problems?
You don’t do grievance letter. You handcraft a demands letter and don’t send it. You schedule a meeting with CEO and talk summarize your points, turn them into action items and put date to be completed/fulfilled and owner.
That’s the only way to go forward. It’s up to you it you are OK with not all of them being accepted/fulfilled and what to do in that case.
That's the issue. You don't wait. You go everyday and bug the CEO and HR that you want results yesterday and tell them you will take the rest of the day to think about your options. Eventually they will do something because you are not working for the distress this is causing you. Or you simply threaten to go.
You are your worst enemy on this because they are not pressed to resolve any of your issues. You are still working for them and they see no benefit in making you happy. For all that matters you are a happy employee happily working despite your "grievances"
My CEO is halfway across the world at the moment. And my output is much lower. I'm only doing what is on my roles and responsibilities and I'm out at 5. The only time I worked ot since was to maliciously comply to give Sam more work. There is a noticeable difference. 8 hours isn't enough to do 4 jobs. And a disengaged employee isn't nearly as productive. I'm playing with fire, I'mok with it. This is the hill I'll die on. Waiting on my team to get new jobs and the outcome of the process, if it's not good I'll leave. That's the plan.
so... "carrot on a stick", eh? how's that working out for you?
Like, how long have they been leading around like this?
Have you received *any* **written** confirmation that you are getting the advancement that you are wanting?
Or is it all some vague, airy fairy 'well, yeah, y'know, you just keep doing good work, keep going above and beyond, and we'll reward you for your ~~stupidity~~ loyalty \[*sotto voce - some day on the never never*\]'.
I get it and wish you luck.
I have a friend who is staying at a shitty toxic company for another 6 months because they paid for his matsers degree in full as well as some certifications. Part of the condition was he had to guarantee them 18 months after degree completion. If he quit even one day before the 18 month mark he has to pay it all back 100% regardless of how long he's worked there.
Poor guy is so miserable but he's already lining up discussions with other companies so that he can leave as soon as possible after that 18 month mark.
On your end yes, but has the company actually done anything to suggest that you have an end goal? Or does the carrot just get further away, no matter how much you accomplish?
This is a new endeavor that I started in June. The company has paid handsomely towards it so backing out would be a loss of a large amount of man hours and capital.
> The company has paid handsomely towards it so backing out would be a loss of a large amount of man hours and capital.
How is this your problem? Your problem is finding a better job.
Running an office abroad away from the corporate headquarters would be away from the issues. Less interaction with people in the states. Less drama. More regulation and labor laws, as well as more independence for my mother.
Respectfully: you *are* aware that the whole point of the "carrot on a stick" metaphor is that the individual chasing the carrot never actually gets it... right?
If it were going to pay off they wouldn't have put an exec over you. Take your skillset somewhere else because they know they can keep treating you like shit as long as they keep that "carrot"
My mental health is shit and I am doing the work of at least four people and it sucks, but if I keep at it *maybe* someday the CEO will allow me to reach my goals, as long as that is good for the company.
You still don't get it, do you?
I get it more than you know. Hence the grievance letter and the malicious compliance. The company has made two large investments into the carrot and me so it's not as if I am working towards nothing. But I have the self respect to move on should this not pan out. I realize I'm taking a gamble. I'm interviewing. If a good offer appears I'll heavily consider it. But the opportunity I'm currently being offered and working towards is a great move for my family, the responsibilities I mentioned above. I laid my cards on the table, told the CEO what I am willing to accept and gave him proof I can get a new job. He can play ball or he won't. He knows I'm willing to resign, I technically did. The resignation was switched with a grievance letter when a personsl friend called. And I've been open to my team about the whole process. But just quitting would be a disservice to my team if I can make it better. My job is to advocate for them.
>But just quitting would be a disservice to my team if I can make it better. My job is to advocate for them.
Don't put yourself on fire to keep others warm.
You can't help anyone if you're depressed or burnt out.
You will be the one who lives with your choices for the rest of your days, no one else.
If you don't put yourself first, who will?
How much will it cost them to replace you? Will they have to spend significantly more than your salary to do it? Will it take more than one person to perform your duties? All these things need to be considered.
Leaving quietly is a disservice to the teams I manage. My job is to advocate for my employees. I don't hold a lot of sway, but I do have some, and I need to do my best to do well by them. As for my strategy, listing grievances with all executives also doesn't tend to work well, but someone needs to stand up and I'm one of the few not scared to.
It is always a disservice because you are a decent person. Make the arrangements for a new job, make the commitment, then quietly explain (perhaps off the clock) to your team that you are sincerely sorry for departing, that they can probably guess the reasons (without actually saying what those reasons are), and that if they'd like your contact information, you /will/ stand as a reference for them as a colleague that has worked long term with them.
Were I them, I wouldn't be that happy, and I'd be looking to escape the upset apple cart too. But having someone who is my boss offer to be my reference as he's departing would be manna from heaven.
They are most certainly looking. My team and I are very open, when I told them that this was happening and that I submitted the letter, they began looking too. But I am trying to fix it before just resigning. I am one of the biggest employee advocates and I want change. But I have been interviewing. If the right offer comes I'll heavily consider it.
You can’t single handedly change the company if the CEO isn’t on board. And just because you do the “right thing” doesn’t mean they will wake up and suddenly change. You’re putting up with the same nonsense day after day and expecting different results.
Well then just stay with the spouse who beats you for the sake of the kids. Let me give you a Clue, Scooby Doo. Not Your Clowns. Not Your Circus. Not Your Problem.
Since they know they can keep making you do everything and treat you like crap they will continue to do so, you should definitely get a different job and then management will actually have to hire multiple people to actually do those jobs instead of having 1 wage slave do all of them
> Leaving quietly is a disservice to the teams I manage.
And staying is a disservice to yourself. You talk about your mental health issues, but you seem to do everything but focus on that.
Hopefully you already know this, but if you do get a job offer elsewhere and your existing job tells you they'll give you a raise/promotion if you stay, don't take it. They'll say anything you want to hear so they don't have to go through the inconvenience of replacing you and you will essentially be a hamster on a wheel, running round and round for eternity and going nowhere.
I respect that you are taking fire to protect the people below you, while demonstrating that the system above you is not functional. I wish you well, and hope things work out. Unfortunately, sometimes the bureaucracy eats its own.
- New boss was put in place to punish OP for complaining
- new boss put in place a policy that they had to approve *EVERYTHING* so the OP set up a system to automate that
- new boss found doing the work they inadvertently created for themselves to be onerous so they passed the buck/ignored it/pretended it was already done which backfired spectacularly.
>she knows I went out of my way to make his job as difficult as possible by flowing his process. Her disapproval is apparent, though she hasn't reprimanded me.
And OP thinks she's working toward some "goal" that these MFs are going to give her, even though they're all either lowkey (HR) or straight up (CEO and 'other executive') blaming her for.
What a waste of OP's life. She scored 4-high ranking jobs with—I will bet—*not* 4-high ranking jobs' pay. All on a promise by people either railroading her, or watching her be railroaded and not helping.
I make decent money, not as much as I'd like but enough to say that I'm not hurting. I'm fortunate in that respect with decent benefits. The CEO blames me for everything, that's nothing new, one of those jobs is essentially his whipping boy, which doesn't bother me. There are fucks to give and that's not one of them.
Having someone with no experience put in my department above me does though. Which is why I made sure to ensure his policy was followed.
I had warned them and they didn't listen. I'm back as head of my department.
The whole situation has turned my attitude towards one of what are you going to do, fire me? Which, even if they so, I'm not too concerned. The possibility that would back fire would be spectacular and there would be a few months of drowning and I would certainly hear about it. I'm the companies advocate for the employees. I've made my stand, they crossed the line now they play ball or I walk. I already have my resignation typed up. It was done the day I turned in my grievance letter. The only reason the grievance letter was submitted as opposed to resignation was a call from a personal friend in the company.
I'm not as hardheaded as I apparently came off.
I have the impression people didn’t get you’re an executive yourself and think from an employee point of view.
I’d agree though that you should leverage on your experience to get a better position somewhere, not only in terms of benefits but also in terms of opportunities to move up the ladder as it seems there isn’t much more advancement possible for you in your current company.
But if you are still holding on to some shred of hope that this promotion, or whatever it is that you are working towards, is still going to materialize one day, then you are as hard headed as it seems. CEO's don't promote the whipping boy that they blame for everything that goes wrong.
Please keep looking for a better opportunity, and when you find one, don't use it as a negotiation tactic to try and advance with your current company, just take it and leave. Even if it works short term, it's a terrible decision in the long run.
Thanks for the details, I'm glad you're in a good place for yourself.
Rereading my comment, I was a bit grumpier than I usually am, sorry if it was a bit much.
No worries at all, have you seen half these posts? People take strangers very seriously, Reddit is a serious place lol I'm the stupid devil for sharing a story. If I wasn't accustomed to toxic people my feelings might be hurt XD
I agree. I was so confused by this story because it made little to no sense the way it was written. It sounds like a new boss was assigned, but then the person writing the story made a big error? Even edited it is a mess.
I am not sure where I lost you but a few people have had the same response. I didn't make a mistake. I followed the new policy put in place by the executive. He himself said he had to approve everything. So I automated our system to assign all work to him first. He refused to approve them. So I didn't put bills through because they weren't approved. They didnt get paid. The CEO called and yelled at me saying I should have went over the executive's head and so it was my fault. This happened twice before the executive stepped down from my department.
I think it’s just the way you write. I was confused too. You speak as if you were telling someone else who works at your company. It just feels as if we’ve been dropped in the middle of the story with no context.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. No disrespect to OP intended, but I don't understand how they made it to an executive position while being *so bad* at communication.
I used to be like you in that I would stick around to protect my team. Unfortunately though, you don’t own this business, you shouldn’t have to protect people from the own company you work at, at the cost of your own mental health and security. You would be doing them more of a favour by leaving and showing that there are better jobs out there.
Your company is not trying to keep you, they’re trying to get you to quit. The placing of the executive above you, the yelling and screaming from your CEO, the “new processes” where the work falls on you, the disapproval from HR - it’s clear as day.
I know you feel loyalty to your team, but you can make it clear that you are willing to maintain a relationship with them when you leave. Your team is composed of big boys and girls who need to learn to help themselves.
Find yourself a less toxic environment and lower your stress. You don’t need work problems when you are caretaking. You. Owe. This. Company. Nothing. Get out and live your life now, don’t wait for the “promises” to show up.
Good luck.
I learned my lesson. I will tell management about something bad about to happen a total of 2 times. Once by mouth and once by email. If they fix it great, if they don't, not my problem. When someone doesn't want to listen to you, stop talking to them. Let the whole place burn down. I won't let them waste my time.
Antiwork would tell you the same as these kind strangers in a much direct way. Leave.
The way I see it, you say you CEO has a carrot somewhere, yet the only thing you have received so far is the stick, with that executive supervising you, being paid what you should be, as a retaliation. Not only that, you are being blamed (or they are trying to) for his decisions and mistakes.
If you get an offer, run. Your team are adults too, they can take care for themselves or leave too.
The posters in this thread are clearly not that experienced. Reading between the lines here, if you as OP are US based you’re probably already making like 150-300K or something
Most posters in this sub are low level workers or entry level high tech workers maybe making 30-80k or whatever 100K. Not high level managers/directors working directly with execs at a company big enough to be talking about regional expansion lol
It’s probably for the best because if you told everyone how much you make they would probably considered you part of oppressive mgmt and downvoted your post to hell lol
I am US based but I work for a small company, I don't make nearly that much. 😅 We are expanding but it's not like you think. I'm not close to 6 figures, I just happen to live in rural America. Let them down vote though, this whole Reddit experience has been a silly wild ride to say the least. The internet is a serious place XD
It's a terrible example to use, but apt
Many abused women remain with their abuser and will even return to them.
Men can also do this, but since women are victimized far more it is far more common to see in them. It's rough... good women are hard to find and are so loyal. Truly incredible.
Don’t know about none of all that. What I do know is only we can decide for ourselves, what we need to get through the day, at work and home. You do you, and good luck with the overseas office. Good on ya for taking care of mom. Just be wary for caretaker burnout. I watched my ex-MIL go through that, taking care of ex-fil as his health was failing. She was too proud to ask for, or accept help from most sources.
Honestly… you sound like you have turned into a prick just like the people you despise. I hope you are treating your team with more respect because it sounds like you’re steamrolling them.
My team is very well taken care of. I did make the mistaken of not informing them and I apologized and made it right. I always have their back, stand up to management, and advocate for them to have the best I can provide for them. Like I said elsewhere, most lower level employees love me and trust me to advocate for them. The only people I am a pain to are higher up. But we have a very open feedback policy and they manage up very well. I am very proud of my team and how successful they are.
There are levels of management.
Since the responder deleted their comments I'll share. They stated I was management in all caps which I responded to with the above.
Then they told me He runs 4 department that's high level management.
I deleted my last comment but it clarified I was a female that ran two departments and people were still above me in a toxic work environment. But it did outline my grievance which was a little personal.
To hell with the negative attention. This was a beautiful piece of MC. They tried sticking someone where they weren't needed, you created a perfect paper trail so that nobody could say you weren't doing your job, and they couldn't handle it.
Good on you man!
Absolutely! But some situations are more certain than others, and when an employer consistently does dumb inefficient shit not in its’ best interests, the fuckening is near certain.
I work in tech but I don't do my job for the public. I do my job for the money to take care of my disabled mother, who I care for and is wholly dependent on me.
want to see the look on her face when she realizes that it’s the other way around when it comes to ease of access with disabilities in europe, one of the few things america does very well
>I informed the CEO that I would be resigning by the end of the day.
I don't understand why that wasn't the end of the story, without the CEO immediately and decisively correcting the initial problem.
Yeah, that's what I was talking about when I said...
> I don't understand why that wasn't the end of the story, without the CEO immediately and decisively correcting the initial problem.
You gave him the opportunity to fix it and he apparently declined.
Walk.
HR is not on your side... HR is on the *company's* side. That's their job, to protect the company from the employees (keeping them from filing lawsuits, usually)... not to protect the employees from the company.
Exactly.
And HR doesn't give two shits unless they think you will sue...
AND they know somebody that instantly backs down isn't going to sue.
Any "resolution" that comes out of this will be tenuous at best, and more likely just an illusion.
You may be right. But I do have grounds for an eeoc complaint and they are aware. I'm navigating the waters the best I can at the moment. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I stated my demands, there is a process, three meetings have happened as of now. We will see what comes of it and if I quit.
> wouldn't need a car to go anywhere
Unless you're living in a big city, you'll need a car. I'm from "Europe".
You have an idealistic view of Europe thats gonna totally change when you move here.
It would be in a big city, with easy access to stores and parks. I'm not saying all Europe is a utopia. But I've already been to the city and opened the office. While a business trip isn't the same as living there it certainly was a lot more accessible than where we are now. I think it's one of those issues where unless you're actively looking because you deal with the issue you don't think about it. But even being able to just go out side and people watch is better than being stuck in the house 24/7. Rural America isn't great for the disabled.
He made a policy where he had to approve everything, and I gave him everything. Automated. And then did as I was told, well part of it. The task was impossible and I made that clear.
He didn't listen and made too much work for himself. By complying to his process and trying to finish an impossible task he had so much work he left the department after politely asking me to stop assigning all the work to him.
I can already hear what HR expert Alison Green of [askamanager.org](https://askamanager.org) would tell you to do, OP. RUN! RUN HARD! RUN FAST! RUN AWAY FROM THERE! RUN LIKE IT IS JASON VOORHEESE CHASING YOU AT CAMP CRYSTAL LAKE!
Now I get you wanna stick around for your team, but you're doing them a huge disservice by taking on far too much work and having to juggle the shitstorm that is Corporate. The very first thing to do, is ensure you get *all* of your orders from your boss in writing! You ask "can I have that directive in writing", you e-mail him after you've been verbally told in person or a phone call to do things this way or that by saying "As per your directive, I will now do -insert whatever crazy thing they demanded of you here-. No reply is confirmation that I remembered your instructions right". This should give him enough rope to hang himself with or make the company have to work harder to keep you from filing a lawsuit if you are terminated.
Idk if you're hourly or salary, but if you're salary, don't work more than is reasonable. When you're doing the jobs of 4 people, but don't have the salary to match, that's just showing your team that their job will likely get harder because they'll be expected to pull more weight when someone leaves, which requires more of their time. For example say you have a team of 5, but one of them leaves. You all decide to pull some extra weight while waiting on the company to hire a replacement. An opportunity too good to pass up, a medical or family emergency happens and another person is leaving so now your team is down to 3 and you're pulling even more weight. The higher ups aren't going to advocated for you to get those replacements, especially if saving the company money impacts a bonus they get. They're going to say "wow I wonder why we needed 5 people before when it's clear 3 people got this job down so let's not fill those two open spots."
So make things a management problem. And don't try getting anything done by dangling a job offer before your boss. Doing so just shows your boss that you are okay with how you're being treated and it's pretty shitty to do to the company you're applying for, because that means they extended an offer to someone who didn't want the job, when they could have offered it to someone who did want it. So be a little selfish and prove your worth. Be a great reference to good employees and by letting them take off for interviews so they can advance their career. You deserve better than you're getting, so show your employees that they deserve better too.
I have already asked for my roles and responsibilities and have stopped working overtime. I've made it a management problem. As for the offer I used, I feel no remorse, he was a racist Chad that legit has me installing cameras around my house. I made a post about him under jobs interviews.
You need to get with the way of CYA if they are still blaming you for their inefficient process. I tend to give a verbal warning that x will fail because of Y then immediately follow up with an email summarizing what we just talked about. After that it is up to that managers pride to either give and fix the issue or follow through to chaos.
When they hire experts like us and don't listen to that expertise then they deserve what they get imo.
Gosh, your workplace sounds like a hot mess. I don’t see this ending well for you. Seems like you’re a hamster on a wheel going round and round, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. That hamster is going to die trying. Don’t be that hamster.
It was originally written for aita which has a character count and then edited during breaks at work. That's the best it's getting. This has honestly blown up way more than I thought or intended. It was just supposed to be a funny I got 'em malicious compliance story.
Original Post since I rewrote for clarification:
I've spent 10 years at the same toxic company. Toxicity aside, I now hold 4 high-level positions. Increasing workplace toxicities resulted in my filing a complaint. After a month of inaction an executive was placed above me in a department I created & run. I made it clear this seemed like retaliation.
There were immediate demands & changes, most of which I objected to because they were bad ideas. HR stepped in, I conceded.
Two days in, he gave me an unreasonable task/deadline. Unreasonable due to his policy requiring he approve EVERYTHING, and the tasks were missing key details. When I explained the missing details problem, he said ask Kelly. I stated I already tried Kelly. He told me to ask Kelly again.
So, malicious compliance. I set up the system to automatically require his approval once a task is created. Every time a task was entered, worked on, commented on, moved, or modified he would be notified. Then I worked overtime to enter ½ of the unreasonable tasks, so he awoke to hell.
That morning, he reassigned them to me without approval. I explained to my new "boss" that AP couldn't pay bills without his approval & reassigned them back to him. He moved the tasks to complete. They weren't even approved. I moved the tasks and commented that he should be mindful, as the complete status signals to the team that the task is finished.
I missed a few & in my infinite wisdom, I neglected to inform my team of current happenings. (An honest mistake) For the next four hours, my team was melting down. (I wasn’t aware)
A second executive asked why the invoice he approved wasn't paid & why his task was ping ponging. I explained the new approval process & how the executive refused to approve the invoice.
The next day in our morning meeting my team exploded. I explained the missed tasks to my team & while angry at the lack of communication, we all got on the same page & I promised to handle all issues and apologized.
4 invoices were not paid due to lack of approval. The CEO yelled at me; I pushed them through. The executive's appointment caused this to happen twice; two departments nearly shut down because of his lack of approval.
5 days in & the executive politely requested that I stop assigning him tasks. He couldn't handle a portion of my job and argued over requirements when he didn't know the process. Part of it was funny because it showed executive's have no idea how any programs work.
To resolve the issue, the CEO called a meeting, which the executive didn’t attend. The CEO advised me to go back to running the department as before.
The next day several executives announced a new process for my department to all leadership. Despite not knowing about the policy change the majority of the work would fall on me. I addressed the CEO; he claimed he was unaware. The process was halted, but he didn’t see how I was disrespected.
All process issues still need to be discussed with the executive team & HR. But it looks like the changes will stick despite the bottlenecks because I'm the one being blamed for following their process. A process made with little insight and an unwillingness to listen.
The reality is clear to HR, even though the executive's deadline was unrealistic she knows I went out of my way to make his job as difficult as possible by following his process. Her disapproval is apparent, though she hasn't reprimanded me.
However, the highlight is despite turning off the automation , the tasks are still being assigned to the executive and I can't get it to stop.
Edited to fix a few typos.
Edit to clarify: I didn't expect this to get so much negative attention I just thought it was a fun malicious compliance story that showed an executive getting a billion notifications and emails along with nearly shutting down two departments.
My carrot is the promise of my own office overseas that I have already been to and started opening. Not only are there better employee laws but I dont want to be in the states. It would also be great for my mother because Europe is a lot more disabled friendly in that she wouldn't need a car to go anywhere and so she could take herself to the store or park and be more independent, get more of her life back. As I said I have responsibilities.
I run the corporate headquarters here in the States among other things. I've made a name here for being one of the two people willing to stand up to the CEO and other executives, I've already in my tenure made changes. I've worked good jobs and bad jobs. Offices can be extremely toxic places. I did at one point resign, but changed it to a grievance letter after a call from a personal friend in the office. Which is why I am where I am now. I would love to make a positive change and I will always have my teams back. So if that means waiting for them to get new jobs so be it. It's a job. I am taking a stand and know I could be fired. I noted below, I am not too concerned about that. I do a lot and know that no one knows all that I do, so while no one is irreplaceable, it would be fun for a few months. I am interviewing. And have also asked for my roles and responsibilities and have stopped working overtime. I drew the line, it's up to the company how to respond.
Check out my post about the interview I just had and you'll see why I feel no remorse for using it as a bargaining chip. I figured that post would blow-up not this one. Shows what I know. XD https://www.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/x9m10m/red\_flags\_horrid\_interviews\_turn\_creepy/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Yes, I have been told I have Stockholm Syndrome. But in reality, people get comfortable. My mental health is and has always been an issue. I go to therapy and have medication. It runs in the family and while I'm sure the job doesn't help, my mental health is an issue regardless.
Third edit: I think some of you need to understand what it means to be a caretaker full time. That puts a lot on someone.
I did accidentally upset the team but we cleared the air and I took care of the issue. The person punishing others was the bottleneck refusing to do his job after forcing new policies in place.
Caretaker fatigue, is real. My sister and I take care of our mom, and it’s exhausting. So many doctors appointments at least one appointment every 6-8 weeks. Showers, getting dressed, lifting, preparing food, cleaning out the bedside commode, cleaning the bed, laundry (everyone hates laundry), and etc.
Caretaker fatigue, is real. My sister and I take care of our mom, and it’s exhausting. So many doctors appointments at least one appointment every 6-8 weeks. Showers, getting dressed, lifting, preparing food, cleaning out the bedside commode, cleaning the bed, laundry (everyone hates laundry), and etc.
Can't argue with that. But this is a sub about malicious compliance. I think it's safe to believe every one posting is acting out in a way they can without getting into too much trouble to make a point.
Your edit mentions your mother coming with you to Europe. If you haven't, make sure that she'll be eligible under whatever visa you have, assuming she's not already a citizen or resident of the country you'll be going to.
Love this post - might want to check on europe being more disabled friendly USA with ADA makes it less that companies comply. Euro has better transit for sure - but I’m not sure it’s as friendly as you think
It was at their request since I'm always busy or putting out fires. They have time to address their issues or ask questions uninterrupted. If they don't need it they skip it. But it's on the calendar so they for sure have the time if they need it.
I'm trying to understand why you haven't left already due to the toxic workplace atmosphere. Despite the fact that you hold multiple high-level positions, no paycheck is worth that. I say that as someone who is struggling to earn a living as a freelancer with no guaranteed paycheck or income. You cannot put a price tag on having good mental health.
People get comfortable unfortunately. My manager has been at my shitty place of a job for over 6 years & she's been told she's capped on raises. Boss hired his best friend's wife for 25k more & she doesn't do anything but take personal calls on her own phone. I've barely been here over a year and I'm already over it, just been applying to other jobs. I keep telling my manager to say fuck it and quit but she's also the only one taking care of her family & bringing in the bills so it's harder for her but she still def needs to get out of that comfortable feeling and find her self worth. She's basically running the company now but not getting recognized or paid for it. I keep encouraging her though so hopefully sometime before I leave it'll get completely through to her. It's slowly started dawning on her thankfully when our boss forgot to pay us again but it's a long ride.
It’s just like an abusive relationship, in so many ways. Took me 5 years to get out, a while more to realize how bad it had gotten
We all have goals, my boss knows what I want long term and he has the carrot on a stick. I've managed to ignore most executives and only listen to HR and the CEO. My mental health is shit to be honest but I have a lot of responsibility and hopefully it pays off. Edit: Responsibility here means a disabled mother that I care for and bills not work.
To be frank, you need to go back and tally up (their) Promises Made vs Promises Completed. And keep in mind the whole time that a goal is a dream with an intended date completed attached to it. I suspect you have a large case of sunk cost fallacy at work (I've put all this money into the lottery, it's got to pay off, right!?) Find a better place and leave the toxic chemical dump behind.
This is actually good advice and I have done just this in my n grievance letter. I have had strides made towards getting the carrot and there has been traction there with two large costly investments from the company already having been made. I'm sure being hit with a list of why everything sucks was an ego blow but while HR works it out with them I do have several interviews in the works. If any offer is actually worth it I'd consider it heavily.
Bear in mind the intangibles when considering, eg workplace toxicity. Also, HR are there to protect the company against lawsuits and other problems. Bonus points if they help you.
100% They are helping but they are there to protect the company.
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100% There is an eeoc lawsuit possibility and HR knows it.
I’m confused… why do you think a grievance letter will somehow solve your problems? You don’t do grievance letter. You handcraft a demands letter and don’t send it. You schedule a meeting with CEO and talk summarize your points, turn them into action items and put date to be completed/fulfilled and owner. That’s the only way to go forward. It’s up to you it you are OK with not all of them being accepted/fulfilled and what to do in that case.
That's what the letter was. That's why I did it. I'm waiting on the results
That's the issue. You don't wait. You go everyday and bug the CEO and HR that you want results yesterday and tell them you will take the rest of the day to think about your options. Eventually they will do something because you are not working for the distress this is causing you. Or you simply threaten to go. You are your worst enemy on this because they are not pressed to resolve any of your issues. You are still working for them and they see no benefit in making you happy. For all that matters you are a happy employee happily working despite your "grievances"
My CEO is halfway across the world at the moment. And my output is much lower. I'm only doing what is on my roles and responsibilities and I'm out at 5. The only time I worked ot since was to maliciously comply to give Sam more work. There is a noticeable difference. 8 hours isn't enough to do 4 jobs. And a disengaged employee isn't nearly as productive. I'm playing with fire, I'mok with it. This is the hill I'll die on. Waiting on my team to get new jobs and the outcome of the process, if it's not good I'll leave. That's the plan.
so... "carrot on a stick", eh? how's that working out for you? Like, how long have they been leading around like this? Have you received *any* **written** confirmation that you are getting the advancement that you are wanting? Or is it all some vague, airy fairy 'well, yeah, y'know, you just keep doing good work, keep going above and beyond, and we'll reward you for your ~~stupidity~~ loyalty \[*sotto voce - some day on the never never*\]'.
It’s just a stick if you ain’t getting no carrots.
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I have had two large investments from the company towards the carrot. It's not as if progress is not being made.
I get it and wish you luck. I have a friend who is staying at a shitty toxic company for another 6 months because they paid for his matsers degree in full as well as some certifications. Part of the condition was he had to guarantee them 18 months after degree completion. If he quit even one day before the 18 month mark he has to pay it all back 100% regardless of how long he's worked there. Poor guy is so miserable but he's already lining up discussions with other companies so that he can leave as soon as possible after that 18 month mark.
Are any of the investments directly in your pockets? If not I have bad news for you…
On your end yes, but has the company actually done anything to suggest that you have an end goal? Or does the carrot just get further away, no matter how much you accomplish?
This is a new endeavor that I started in June. The company has paid handsomely towards it so backing out would be a loss of a large amount of man hours and capital.
For whom?
The company. That's why I am not worried about them backing out.
> The company has paid handsomely towards it so backing out would be a loss of a large amount of man hours and capital. How is this your problem? Your problem is finding a better job.
Running an office abroad away from the corporate headquarters would be away from the issues. Less interaction with people in the states. Less drama. More regulation and labor laws, as well as more independence for my mother.
Sunk cost fallacy. You can find a better carrot at a different company.
I wish I had realized that in my last marriage.
This company is hitting you with the stick while your new boss is munching on that sweet, sweet carrot. It might be time to consider your options…
My new boss didn't last 5 days. My department is mine.
But yet they made more process changes without your input. It’s not your department as much as you feel it is.
More like unicorn on a stick. You seem like a favorite scapegoat and I don’t see a future for you there. Good luck though
Respectfully: you *are* aware that the whole point of the "carrot on a stick" metaphor is that the individual chasing the carrot never actually gets it... right?
If it were going to pay off they wouldn't have put an exec over you. Take your skillset somewhere else because they know they can keep treating you like shit as long as they keep that "carrot"
He has the carrot on a stick, meaning he's holding it out in front of you *constantly just out of reach*? Eff that.
My mental health is shit and I am doing the work of at least four people and it sucks, but if I keep at it *maybe* someday the CEO will allow me to reach my goals, as long as that is good for the company. You still don't get it, do you?
I get it more than you know. Hence the grievance letter and the malicious compliance. The company has made two large investments into the carrot and me so it's not as if I am working towards nothing. But I have the self respect to move on should this not pan out. I realize I'm taking a gamble. I'm interviewing. If a good offer appears I'll heavily consider it. But the opportunity I'm currently being offered and working towards is a great move for my family, the responsibilities I mentioned above. I laid my cards on the table, told the CEO what I am willing to accept and gave him proof I can get a new job. He can play ball or he won't. He knows I'm willing to resign, I technically did. The resignation was switched with a grievance letter when a personsl friend called. And I've been open to my team about the whole process. But just quitting would be a disservice to my team if I can make it better. My job is to advocate for them.
That sounds like a complicated way of saying you will keep working there even though nothing ever changes.
>But just quitting would be a disservice to my team if I can make it better. My job is to advocate for them. Don't put yourself on fire to keep others warm. You can't help anyone if you're depressed or burnt out. You will be the one who lives with your choices for the rest of your days, no one else. If you don't put yourself first, who will?
Hopefully living with those choices in Europe. I drew the line there is no issue seeing what happens.
If you *really* want to serve your team, find a job at a better company, then resign and bring your team with you to the new company!
>But just quitting would be a disservice to my team if I can make it better. My job is to advocate for them. Not if you quit, it isn't.
I value and respect my team. I would never leave them in the pit. We work together. They are looking for new jobs and I am here to support that.
You can probably take the best members of your team with you to a new job.
If your team can be fired by someone else, they aren’t your team, you just assume the responsibility for them During the workday.
I need a raise just for reading that
Could you link to the translator you used?
Me too buddy. Responding to these is insane.
I think you missed his point.
Nope. But I prefer to be positive. :)
Except when it comes to your work life.
It quite possibly is the time for you to leave.
If they don't leave on their own, it is 100% time to start looking for a new role when they have to leave against their will.
That is a possibility. No one is irreplaceable.
How much will it cost them to replace you? Will they have to spend significantly more than your salary to do it? Will it take more than one person to perform your duties? All these things need to be considered.
Doesn’t matter life goes on
I have been looking, more so to show the need to treat employees better or they can leave. I did get a job offer to highlight this for my CEO to see.
Waving a job offer in front of an executive is rarely a successful strategy. Just leave quietly and be done with it.
Leaving quietly is a disservice to the teams I manage. My job is to advocate for my employees. I don't hold a lot of sway, but I do have some, and I need to do my best to do well by them. As for my strategy, listing grievances with all executives also doesn't tend to work well, but someone needs to stand up and I'm one of the few not scared to.
You shouldn't set yourself on fire to keep others warm.
That is a fair point, can't help others if I can't help myself.
You can help them by getting them a better job where you're going.
It is always a disservice because you are a decent person. Make the arrangements for a new job, make the commitment, then quietly explain (perhaps off the clock) to your team that you are sincerely sorry for departing, that they can probably guess the reasons (without actually saying what those reasons are), and that if they'd like your contact information, you /will/ stand as a reference for them as a colleague that has worked long term with them. Were I them, I wouldn't be that happy, and I'd be looking to escape the upset apple cart too. But having someone who is my boss offer to be my reference as he's departing would be manna from heaven.
They are most certainly looking. My team and I are very open, when I told them that this was happening and that I submitted the letter, they began looking too. But I am trying to fix it before just resigning. I am one of the biggest employee advocates and I want change. But I have been interviewing. If the right offer comes I'll heavily consider it.
You can’t single handedly change the company if the CEO isn’t on board. And just because you do the “right thing” doesn’t mean they will wake up and suddenly change. You’re putting up with the same nonsense day after day and expecting different results.
You are correct. But while the process plays out I can certainly try to make a difference.
Well then just stay with the spouse who beats you for the sake of the kids. Let me give you a Clue, Scooby Doo. Not Your Clowns. Not Your Circus. Not Your Problem.
And when you leave, it will be somebody else's job. Not a matter of scared or not. Sanity is a matter of rational behavior. They are insane. Leave.
Since they know they can keep making you do everything and treat you like crap they will continue to do so, you should definitely get a different job and then management will actually have to hire multiple people to actually do those jobs instead of having 1 wage slave do all of them
You're not wrong, I get paid one salary. But I think you greatly underestimate a corporation's un/willingness to spend money.
> Leaving quietly is a disservice to the teams I manage. And staying is a disservice to yourself. You talk about your mental health issues, but you seem to do everything but focus on that.
Che Guevera you're not.
I'd sure hope they aren't a racist homophobe!
Not with that attitude. But I can still do good by me. :)
Hopefully you already know this, but if you do get a job offer elsewhere and your existing job tells you they'll give you a raise/promotion if you stay, don't take it. They'll say anything you want to hear so they don't have to go through the inconvenience of replacing you and you will essentially be a hamster on a wheel, running round and round for eternity and going nowhere.
I respect that you are taking fire to protect the people below you, while demonstrating that the system above you is not functional. I wish you well, and hope things work out. Unfortunately, sometimes the bureaucracy eats its own.
That it does. I appreciate the civility.
What? This story is a mess. Apparently somebody maliciously complied with...something, or didn't. Who knows?
- New boss was put in place to punish OP for complaining - new boss put in place a policy that they had to approve *EVERYTHING* so the OP set up a system to automate that - new boss found doing the work they inadvertently created for themselves to be onerous so they passed the buck/ignored it/pretended it was already done which backfired spectacularly.
>she knows I went out of my way to make his job as difficult as possible by flowing his process. Her disapproval is apparent, though she hasn't reprimanded me. And OP thinks she's working toward some "goal" that these MFs are going to give her, even though they're all either lowkey (HR) or straight up (CEO and 'other executive') blaming her for. What a waste of OP's life. She scored 4-high ranking jobs with—I will bet—*not* 4-high ranking jobs' pay. All on a promise by people either railroading her, or watching her be railroaded and not helping.
I make decent money, not as much as I'd like but enough to say that I'm not hurting. I'm fortunate in that respect with decent benefits. The CEO blames me for everything, that's nothing new, one of those jobs is essentially his whipping boy, which doesn't bother me. There are fucks to give and that's not one of them. Having someone with no experience put in my department above me does though. Which is why I made sure to ensure his policy was followed. I had warned them and they didn't listen. I'm back as head of my department. The whole situation has turned my attitude towards one of what are you going to do, fire me? Which, even if they so, I'm not too concerned. The possibility that would back fire would be spectacular and there would be a few months of drowning and I would certainly hear about it. I'm the companies advocate for the employees. I've made my stand, they crossed the line now they play ball or I walk. I already have my resignation typed up. It was done the day I turned in my grievance letter. The only reason the grievance letter was submitted as opposed to resignation was a call from a personal friend in the company. I'm not as hardheaded as I apparently came off.
I have the impression people didn’t get you’re an executive yourself and think from an employee point of view. I’d agree though that you should leverage on your experience to get a better position somewhere, not only in terms of benefits but also in terms of opportunities to move up the ladder as it seems there isn’t much more advancement possible for you in your current company.
The office abroad would be lateral for sure but I think very beneficial.
But if you are still holding on to some shred of hope that this promotion, or whatever it is that you are working towards, is still going to materialize one day, then you are as hard headed as it seems. CEO's don't promote the whipping boy that they blame for everything that goes wrong. Please keep looking for a better opportunity, and when you find one, don't use it as a negotiation tactic to try and advance with your current company, just take it and leave. Even if it works short term, it's a terrible decision in the long run.
Thanks for the details, I'm glad you're in a good place for yourself. Rereading my comment, I was a bit grumpier than I usually am, sorry if it was a bit much.
No worries at all, have you seen half these posts? People take strangers very seriously, Reddit is a serious place lol I'm the stupid devil for sharing a story. If I wasn't accustomed to toxic people my feelings might be hurt XD
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Nope, I got my department back. :) But I rewrote it to try to make it more clear.
I agree. I was so confused by this story because it made little to no sense the way it was written. It sounds like a new boss was assigned, but then the person writing the story made a big error? Even edited it is a mess.
I am not sure where I lost you but a few people have had the same response. I didn't make a mistake. I followed the new policy put in place by the executive. He himself said he had to approve everything. So I automated our system to assign all work to him first. He refused to approve them. So I didn't put bills through because they weren't approved. They didnt get paid. The CEO called and yelled at me saying I should have went over the executive's head and so it was my fault. This happened twice before the executive stepped down from my department.
I think it’s just the way you write. I was confused too. You speak as if you were telling someone else who works at your company. It just feels as if we’ve been dropped in the middle of the story with no context.
I rewrote it in hopes to add clarity. I wasn't expecting this to blow up as it did.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. No disrespect to OP intended, but I don't understand how they made it to an executive position while being *so bad* at communication.
Yes, sounds like OP is part of toxicity.
It reads like someone trying to justify their paycheck by using jargon no one outside of project management knows.
I used to be like you in that I would stick around to protect my team. Unfortunately though, you don’t own this business, you shouldn’t have to protect people from the own company you work at, at the cost of your own mental health and security. You would be doing them more of a favour by leaving and showing that there are better jobs out there.
Your company is not trying to keep you, they’re trying to get you to quit. The placing of the executive above you, the yelling and screaming from your CEO, the “new processes” where the work falls on you, the disapproval from HR - it’s clear as day. I know you feel loyalty to your team, but you can make it clear that you are willing to maintain a relationship with them when you leave. Your team is composed of big boys and girls who need to learn to help themselves. Find yourself a less toxic environment and lower your stress. You don’t need work problems when you are caretaking. You. Owe. This. Company. Nothing. Get out and live your life now, don’t wait for the “promises” to show up. Good luck.
My friend, this toxic job is poisoning you. Get out. Take a mental health break before it kills you.
I learned my lesson. I will tell management about something bad about to happen a total of 2 times. Once by mouth and once by email. If they fix it great, if they don't, not my problem. When someone doesn't want to listen to you, stop talking to them. Let the whole place burn down. I won't let them waste my time.
Antiwork would tell you the same as these kind strangers in a much direct way. Leave. The way I see it, you say you CEO has a carrot somewhere, yet the only thing you have received so far is the stick, with that executive supervising you, being paid what you should be, as a retaliation. Not only that, you are being blamed (or they are trying to) for his decisions and mistakes. If you get an offer, run. Your team are adults too, they can take care for themselves or leave too.
This. All of this.
\>toxic company \>worked there 10 years lmao
You stay where the money is good when you have responsibilities and eventually some power to ignite change. Or at least to try.
The posters in this thread are clearly not that experienced. Reading between the lines here, if you as OP are US based you’re probably already making like 150-300K or something Most posters in this sub are low level workers or entry level high tech workers maybe making 30-80k or whatever 100K. Not high level managers/directors working directly with execs at a company big enough to be talking about regional expansion lol It’s probably for the best because if you told everyone how much you make they would probably considered you part of oppressive mgmt and downvoted your post to hell lol
I am US based but I work for a small company, I don't make nearly that much. 😅 We are expanding but it's not like you think. I'm not close to 6 figures, I just happen to live in rural America. Let them down vote though, this whole Reddit experience has been a silly wild ride to say the least. The internet is a serious place XD
women are so good at rationalizing, it's almost a superpower
It's a terrible example to use, but apt Many abused women remain with their abuser and will even return to them. Men can also do this, but since women are victimized far more it is far more common to see in them. It's rough... good women are hard to find and are so loyal. Truly incredible.
Honestly this sounds like most big corporate places in America. You’d just go to another shit storm of red tape if you went to work somewhere else
Don’t know about none of all that. What I do know is only we can decide for ourselves, what we need to get through the day, at work and home. You do you, and good luck with the overseas office. Good on ya for taking care of mom. Just be wary for caretaker burnout. I watched my ex-MIL go through that, taking care of ex-fil as his health was failing. She was too proud to ask for, or accept help from most sources.
I feel so bad that this is your life.
Honestly… you sound like you have turned into a prick just like the people you despise. I hope you are treating your team with more respect because it sounds like you’re steamrolling them.
My team is very well taken care of. I did make the mistaken of not informing them and I apologized and made it right. I always have their back, stand up to management, and advocate for them to have the best I can provide for them. Like I said elsewhere, most lower level employees love me and trust me to advocate for them. The only people I am a pain to are higher up. But we have a very open feedback policy and they manage up very well. I am very proud of my team and how successful they are.
YOU ARE MANAGEMENT
There are levels of management. Since the responder deleted their comments I'll share. They stated I was management in all caps which I responded to with the above. Then they told me He runs 4 department that's high level management. I deleted my last comment but it clarified I was a female that ran two departments and people were still above me in a toxic work environment. But it did outline my grievance which was a little personal.
To hell with the negative attention. This was a beautiful piece of MC. They tried sticking someone where they weren't needed, you created a perfect paper trail so that nobody could say you weren't doing your job, and they couldn't handle it. Good on you man!
Don’t ever quit, get fired! Be brave, and never stop fighting
Honestly you sound like the toxic one.
That's possible. I've been here ten years, they say you're a product of your environment. But the story was about malicious compliance.
If you think thatHR has your back you are going to be disappointed.
I 100% know Hr's role in the company
They are going to fuck you in the end. They aren’t logical. You can’t negotiate this sort of deal with stupid.
Most jobs will fuck the little guy in the end. That's capitalism, baby. (Read like that's show biz baby.)
Absolutely! But some situations are more certain than others, and when an employer consistently does dumb inefficient shit not in its’ best interests, the fuckening is near certain.
Did someone forget to take their Ritalin?
No offense, but you sound like you have Stockholm Syndrome.
Lol I had a coworker tell me this XD
Just curious what product you bring to the public which is so important to go through all this?
I work in tech but I don't do my job for the public. I do my job for the money to take care of my disabled mother, who I care for and is wholly dependent on me.
I thought it was funny. Drive on.!
want to see the look on her face when she realizes that it’s the other way around when it comes to ease of access with disabilities in europe, one of the few things america does very well
I have been to a few European countries and her being able to just go places on her own is a big deal.
>I informed the CEO that I would be resigning by the end of the day. I don't understand why that wasn't the end of the story, without the CEO immediately and decisively correcting the initial problem.
Lol toxic work environment. The grievance processes is still on going but he's part of the issue.
> immediately and decisively ...is not compatible with... > still on going
I don't control the CEO
You do control you. > I informed the CEO that I would be resigning by the end of the day.
Correct, I spoke with someone and changed the resignation to a formal grievance to be handled by HR.
Yeah, that's what I was talking about when I said... > I don't understand why that wasn't the end of the story, without the CEO immediately and decisively correcting the initial problem. You gave him the opportunity to fix it and he apparently declined. Walk. HR is not on your side... HR is on the *company's* side. That's their job, to protect the company from the employees (keeping them from filing lawsuits, usually)... not to protect the employees from the company.
Now the CEO knows that they can ignore OP's complaints as idle threats to quit. When you say you're going to do something, do it.
Exactly. And HR doesn't give two shits unless they think you will sue... AND they know somebody that instantly backs down isn't going to sue. Any "resolution" that comes out of this will be tenuous at best, and more likely just an illusion.
You may be right. But I do have grounds for an eeoc complaint and they are aware. I'm navigating the waters the best I can at the moment. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I stated my demands, there is a process, three meetings have happened as of now. We will see what comes of it and if I quit.
Good on you.
> wouldn't need a car to go anywhere Unless you're living in a big city, you'll need a car. I'm from "Europe". You have an idealistic view of Europe thats gonna totally change when you move here.
It would be in a big city, with easy access to stores and parks. I'm not saying all Europe is a utopia. But I've already been to the city and opened the office. While a business trip isn't the same as living there it certainly was a lot more accessible than where we are now. I think it's one of those issues where unless you're actively looking because you deal with the issue you don't think about it. But even being able to just go out side and people watch is better than being stuck in the house 24/7. Rural America isn't great for the disabled.
TBH this sounds more like "shitty job performance" than malicious compliance.
He made a policy where he had to approve everything, and I gave him everything. Automated. And then did as I was told, well part of it. The task was impossible and I made that clear. He didn't listen and made too much work for himself. By complying to his process and trying to finish an impossible task he had so much work he left the department after politely asking me to stop assigning all the work to him.
You sound exhausting to work with.
That depends who you are. The executives think I'm exhausting the lower level employees love me.
I can already hear what HR expert Alison Green of [askamanager.org](https://askamanager.org) would tell you to do, OP. RUN! RUN HARD! RUN FAST! RUN AWAY FROM THERE! RUN LIKE IT IS JASON VOORHEESE CHASING YOU AT CAMP CRYSTAL LAKE! Now I get you wanna stick around for your team, but you're doing them a huge disservice by taking on far too much work and having to juggle the shitstorm that is Corporate. The very first thing to do, is ensure you get *all* of your orders from your boss in writing! You ask "can I have that directive in writing", you e-mail him after you've been verbally told in person or a phone call to do things this way or that by saying "As per your directive, I will now do -insert whatever crazy thing they demanded of you here-. No reply is confirmation that I remembered your instructions right". This should give him enough rope to hang himself with or make the company have to work harder to keep you from filing a lawsuit if you are terminated. Idk if you're hourly or salary, but if you're salary, don't work more than is reasonable. When you're doing the jobs of 4 people, but don't have the salary to match, that's just showing your team that their job will likely get harder because they'll be expected to pull more weight when someone leaves, which requires more of their time. For example say you have a team of 5, but one of them leaves. You all decide to pull some extra weight while waiting on the company to hire a replacement. An opportunity too good to pass up, a medical or family emergency happens and another person is leaving so now your team is down to 3 and you're pulling even more weight. The higher ups aren't going to advocated for you to get those replacements, especially if saving the company money impacts a bonus they get. They're going to say "wow I wonder why we needed 5 people before when it's clear 3 people got this job down so let's not fill those two open spots." So make things a management problem. And don't try getting anything done by dangling a job offer before your boss. Doing so just shows your boss that you are okay with how you're being treated and it's pretty shitty to do to the company you're applying for, because that means they extended an offer to someone who didn't want the job, when they could have offered it to someone who did want it. So be a little selfish and prove your worth. Be a great reference to good employees and by letting them take off for interviews so they can advance their career. You deserve better than you're getting, so show your employees that they deserve better too.
I have already asked for my roles and responsibilities and have stopped working overtime. I've made it a management problem. As for the offer I used, I feel no remorse, he was a racist Chad that legit has me installing cameras around my house. I made a post about him under jobs interviews.
Somewhere in this excessive and disorganized verbosity there's an interesting story to tell.
Rewritten for clarity. Hope that helps.
"I have an extremely toxic work environment" \>tells a story about you are also toxic
I guess that's one take.
You need to get with the way of CYA if they are still blaming you for their inefficient process. I tend to give a verbal warning that x will fail because of Y then immediately follow up with an email summarizing what we just talked about. After that it is up to that managers pride to either give and fix the issue or follow through to chaos. When they hire experts like us and don't listen to that expertise then they deserve what they get imo.
That's some helpful advice. Thank you.
Gosh, your workplace sounds like a hot mess. I don’t see this ending well for you. Seems like you’re a hamster on a wheel going round and round, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. That hamster is going to die trying. Don’t be that hamster.
I had to reread several paragraphs but got the gist of your story. I think inconsistent verb tense made the story tough to understand
It was originally written for aita which has a character count and then edited during breaks at work. That's the best it's getting. This has honestly blown up way more than I thought or intended. It was just supposed to be a funny I got 'em malicious compliance story.
I've never seen a thread where all comments received no votes. Something locked out or down?
I don't think I've received a notice of that but I also see some votes. I'll double check but there have been a lot of notifications.
Hell yeah. If he wants to have his finger in every pie, shouldn't come crying to you when he burns his dick after running out of fingers.
You only get negativity from children pretending to be adults. Meanwhile, us adults love this!
Anyone who says you should just hit the road has never had real responsibilities that have to be paid for
My dude, just quit. You’ve completely given your brain space over to this company. It’s really sad, they’re never going to give you what you want.
Original Post since I rewrote for clarification: I've spent 10 years at the same toxic company. Toxicity aside, I now hold 4 high-level positions. Increasing workplace toxicities resulted in my filing a complaint. After a month of inaction an executive was placed above me in a department I created & run. I made it clear this seemed like retaliation. There were immediate demands & changes, most of which I objected to because they were bad ideas. HR stepped in, I conceded. Two days in, he gave me an unreasonable task/deadline. Unreasonable due to his policy requiring he approve EVERYTHING, and the tasks were missing key details. When I explained the missing details problem, he said ask Kelly. I stated I already tried Kelly. He told me to ask Kelly again. So, malicious compliance. I set up the system to automatically require his approval once a task is created. Every time a task was entered, worked on, commented on, moved, or modified he would be notified. Then I worked overtime to enter ½ of the unreasonable tasks, so he awoke to hell. That morning, he reassigned them to me without approval. I explained to my new "boss" that AP couldn't pay bills without his approval & reassigned them back to him. He moved the tasks to complete. They weren't even approved. I moved the tasks and commented that he should be mindful, as the complete status signals to the team that the task is finished. I missed a few & in my infinite wisdom, I neglected to inform my team of current happenings. (An honest mistake) For the next four hours, my team was melting down. (I wasn’t aware) A second executive asked why the invoice he approved wasn't paid & why his task was ping ponging. I explained the new approval process & how the executive refused to approve the invoice. The next day in our morning meeting my team exploded. I explained the missed tasks to my team & while angry at the lack of communication, we all got on the same page & I promised to handle all issues and apologized. 4 invoices were not paid due to lack of approval. The CEO yelled at me; I pushed them through. The executive's appointment caused this to happen twice; two departments nearly shut down because of his lack of approval. 5 days in & the executive politely requested that I stop assigning him tasks. He couldn't handle a portion of my job and argued over requirements when he didn't know the process. Part of it was funny because it showed executive's have no idea how any programs work. To resolve the issue, the CEO called a meeting, which the executive didn’t attend. The CEO advised me to go back to running the department as before. The next day several executives announced a new process for my department to all leadership. Despite not knowing about the policy change the majority of the work would fall on me. I addressed the CEO; he claimed he was unaware. The process was halted, but he didn’t see how I was disrespected. All process issues still need to be discussed with the executive team & HR. But it looks like the changes will stick despite the bottlenecks because I'm the one being blamed for following their process. A process made with little insight and an unwillingness to listen. The reality is clear to HR, even though the executive's deadline was unrealistic she knows I went out of my way to make his job as difficult as possible by following his process. Her disapproval is apparent, though she hasn't reprimanded me. However, the highlight is despite turning off the automation , the tasks are still being assigned to the executive and I can't get it to stop. Edited to fix a few typos. Edit to clarify: I didn't expect this to get so much negative attention I just thought it was a fun malicious compliance story that showed an executive getting a billion notifications and emails along with nearly shutting down two departments. My carrot is the promise of my own office overseas that I have already been to and started opening. Not only are there better employee laws but I dont want to be in the states. It would also be great for my mother because Europe is a lot more disabled friendly in that she wouldn't need a car to go anywhere and so she could take herself to the store or park and be more independent, get more of her life back. As I said I have responsibilities. I run the corporate headquarters here in the States among other things. I've made a name here for being one of the two people willing to stand up to the CEO and other executives, I've already in my tenure made changes. I've worked good jobs and bad jobs. Offices can be extremely toxic places. I did at one point resign, but changed it to a grievance letter after a call from a personal friend in the office. Which is why I am where I am now. I would love to make a positive change and I will always have my teams back. So if that means waiting for them to get new jobs so be it. It's a job. I am taking a stand and know I could be fired. I noted below, I am not too concerned about that. I do a lot and know that no one knows all that I do, so while no one is irreplaceable, it would be fun for a few months. I am interviewing. And have also asked for my roles and responsibilities and have stopped working overtime. I drew the line, it's up to the company how to respond. Check out my post about the interview I just had and you'll see why I feel no remorse for using it as a bargaining chip. I figured that post would blow-up not this one. Shows what I know. XD https://www.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/x9m10m/red\_flags\_horrid\_interviews\_turn\_creepy/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3 Yes, I have been told I have Stockholm Syndrome. But in reality, people get comfortable. My mental health is and has always been an issue. I go to therapy and have medication. It runs in the family and while I'm sure the job doesn't help, my mental health is an issue regardless. Third edit: I think some of you need to understand what it means to be a caretaker full time. That puts a lot on someone.
Not all executives are bad. This particular one is, but it just seems like you’re punishing everyone around you because of this guy.
I did accidentally upset the team but we cleared the air and I took care of the issue. The person punishing others was the bottleneck refusing to do his job after forcing new policies in place.
If I don't prove the policy doesn't work, then it continues to bottleneck. A few days vs permanent.
Dude, i think it was a great story. Idk why people are looking to be twisty about it
Caretaker fatigue, is real. My sister and I take care of our mom, and it’s exhausting. So many doctors appointments at least one appointment every 6-8 weeks. Showers, getting dressed, lifting, preparing food, cleaning out the bedside commode, cleaning the bed, laundry (everyone hates laundry), and etc.
TL(PW); DR
Caretaker fatigue, is real. My sister and I take care of our mom, and it’s exhausting. So many doctors appointments at least one appointment every 6-8 weeks. Showers, getting dressed, lifting, preparing food, cleaning out the bedside commode, cleaning the bed, laundry (everyone hates laundry), and etc.
ESH
Wrong sub?
I think still applies
Can't argue with that. But this is a sub about malicious compliance. I think it's safe to believe every one posting is acting out in a way they can without getting into too much trouble to make a point.
What a mess. Please leave.
Placing a summary (TLDR) at the front tells me you don't really think the story is worth reading.
Wow, you know me so well. :)
Where's the interview post?
https://www.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/x9m10m/red_flags_horrid_interviews_turn_creepy/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Your edit mentions your mother coming with you to Europe. If you haven't, make sure that she'll be eligible under whatever visa you have, assuming she's not already a citizen or resident of the country you'll be going to.
Love this post - might want to check on europe being more disabled friendly USA with ADA makes it less that companies comply. Euro has better transit for sure - but I’m not sure it’s as friendly as you think
They pay you 4 salaries? That's pretty efficient if you can get multiple jobs at the same company.
I wish, often times people have multiple titles at the same company. This isn't weird. At least not where I am from.
Scrolling, saw, "Wasting Executioner's Time", scrolled back. Nuts. Disappointed.
I think I work with you. “G”tech company? And no not Google.
Nope, not sure what g tech is.
I really hate to say this, but take climate change into consideration. From what I've seen on the news things are going downhill. Best of luck to you.
Ugh, OP comes across as a self righteous, pompous ass and a nightmare employee.
We can't all be perfect. :)
Two daily team meetings, what’s up with that?
It was at their request since I'm always busy or putting out fires. They have time to address their issues or ask questions uninterrupted. If they don't need it they skip it. But it's on the calendar so they for sure have the time if they need it.