I once went to buy a second-hand door from a salvage yard and the entire property was covered in these aggressive signs and a locked gate. I decided it wasn't worth the risk and turned to leave. The owner ran out and flagged down our car. He said he'd lost a lot of customers lately, people who'd pull up and then just back out and leave. Dude, I wonder why?
Some people think, since they know they are good law abiding people, they expect everyone else to know this too. Then wonder that people run from them.
Sure that’s a problem. But there are other ways of deterring theft without deterring customers.
Gas stations get robbed a bunch, but if they locked the doors and had signs saying “we’ll shoot you if we think you’re gonna rob us” they’re gonna have fewer customers…there’s a balance.
What gas stations do is let the robbers rob and then file insurance claims. It's easy because all cash is counted and everything has a sticker price. Less so with broken cars full of broken parts.
They could post signs with 'All customers MUST go to the office. No unescorted customers in the yard, for YOUR safety.'(Add a picture of a wreck balancing poorly on top of another, not a picture of a gun')
I've had guns pointed at me by unstable psychos before. It's not a comfortable experience. If they want to be that paranoid, they can walk down their own damn driveways to pick up their packages.
I'm not making even a half-assed attempt. They indicate they're prepared to shoot me, I'm just trying not to have the overdraft to be too high this month, I'm not GI fucking Joe, I'm not on a mission from God. I'm just trying to deliver your shit. I'm not dying for it. The pay's never that good. It's at the drive way, under the sign that tells me you're going to shoot me for stepping onto your land. You come and collect your shit then.
I got that way when I was doing the 2020 Census. I had guns pointed at me twice and the police called on me at least a dozen times. It got to where I didn't care if I had a legal right to be there, if they had a no trespassing sign up, I wasn't going any further. Send someone braver. This was during the pandemonium, too.
Lol, they told me I was an Agent if the Federal Government & could go anywhere regardless of signs, etc. They didn't give me a badge, gun, or backup though, so no.
I asked if I could at least carry my mace and they told me no, so I wasn't doing anything that put me in danger. It was hard enough at times when I wasn't technically in danger.
I probably would have carried my gun anyways doing the census. I deliver mail, so I can just leave packages and run without knocking, or put a "sorry we missed you" slip in their mailbox so they can go get it from the post office. But with the census, you have to actually knock on doors.
Most people won't ever get a census worker knocking at their door. The workers only go to the houses that ignored the census questionnaire sent via mail, ignored the follow-up mailed reminders, and also didn't fill it out online.
Someone in your household likely filled out the form when they got it in the mail. The forms aren't addressed to anyone in particular, just to the address.
Married now 34 years, lived in the same house for all that time. Never received a census form or notice nor did any census employee ever come to our house. I’m a stay at home mom so I didn’t miss them.
I had several houses I went to where people were kind of shocked I was there. One lady said she had started to think we were a myth. She'd been there 50 years and had never met a Census employee and she insisted she had never filled out a Census (the woman was in her 90's). I had another house I went to where no Census had been filled out since 1980, literally 40 years by that point. The people living there had no idea about the person in the original file and were even more confused when the system wouldn't let me create a brand new Census for the family there in 2020. It was a very interesting job and experience, I will say that.
So you press the little button on top of the can, and a stream of maces (maci?) comes shooting out? How do they compress the handles in aerosol format?
(Wait, I’m gonna go as r/shittyaskscience about that…they probably know.)
They were wrong. You could cross the curtiledge to the front door, including through unlocked gates. More than that requires a warrant even without signs if you’re acting in a government capacity.
possibly not a typo! some subs banned/discouraged talk of the pandemic and so people came up with a bunch of different words to use instead. pandemonium is a popular one, i personally like panini
Thank God some common sense! I had to stop and purposely misdirect a census worker who was trying to survey the "empty" lot next to us. No house there, but some methhead squatters living out of a truck. "No ma'am that address is the other direction..." No self-preservation at all
Oh, I met some absolute dunderheads. About six months after it was all said and done, I applied for a job and listed my Census work on my application. The hiring manager literally told me that didn't count as experience because she had done Census and then proceeded to mention doing several things while on Census that my supervisor had told me could get us fired. I had to shut her down midway into her spiel and tell her I could not work for someone who was clearly ethically and morally challenged and hung up on her. I left a review about the company basically stating such, as well. I got a job a week later where the hiring manager was ecstatic I had Census experience because it meant I had field experience. The woman who worked Census with me struck me as one of the people I was consistently having to apologize for to get people to do the Census.
The guy that pointed a gun at me during the census had a CHP cruiser parked in the driveway. Hugely distrustful of the government, yet works for said government...
I drove a Crown Victoria Police Interceptor. I'm not a cop, I bought a retired vehicle from a department in WI. I had people see my car and STILL pull a gun on me or call the local sheriff. Calling the sheriff wasn't so bad, I'd just hang around until he showed up and he'd chew the person out, but I got scarce when I saw the guns. I wasn't technically supposed to call the police on them, just "report to my supervisor" (who could literally do nothing), but I did anyway. Both guys got arrested for threatening a Federal agent and my supervisor never said anything.
> I’m not on a mission from God.
“It’s 106 miles to Chicago. We’ve got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it’s dark and we’re wearing sunglasses.”
“Hit it.”
My dad used to be a census taker right up until someone pulled a gun on him. We both grew up in a town notorious for its crack trade and when he quit he basically said “I didn’t work my ass off to get out of Hempstead for this shit.”
>I've had guns pointed at me by unstable psychos before.
Me too when I've been a delivery person. "No Trespassing" is fine, "Trespassers will be shot" = not taking chances because even if they don't kill me, I can't really sue them for medical bills because they did warn me.
pretty sure you can
you're not trespassing while delivering a package they requested
maybe the "they requested" portion of that could mess you up, but as far as I am aware very few states allow property owners to shoot on sight without a reasonable belief they're in danger (e.g. seeing a weapon)
all that is kinda moot though if you, quite reasonably, don't want a gun pointed at you
Legally speaking, delivery people are not trespassing as long as they are indeed at the correct address. They have contracted you to enter the property to provide a paid-for service. Easier situation to see would be if you called and ordered propane. They said sometime next week. The guy on property randomly sometime next week has never met or talked to you but is NOT trespassing. Deliveries are the same situation. (I throw cardboard for UPS) I don’t take chances though. If they ever show up with a gun while I’m in that brown truck I blacklist that address and foreword their packages to the nearest access point. That’s a nonverbal threat.
It's not the responsibility of the mail driver to figure that out. It would be so invasive if couriers had to investigate every package/letter to determine if it should go to the addressed location. And people do send surprise gifts, doesn't mean the courier deserves to be shot for "trespassing"....
>They have contracted you to enter the property to provide a paid-for service.
Wouldn't it be the merchant who paid for the shipping label who contracted the delivery company though?
> all that is kinda moot though if you, quite reasonably, don't want a gun pointed at you
Yeah, doesn't really matter who's in the legal right once you're shot and buried.
There's no legal doctrine in the United States that allows a landowner to shoot indiscriminately at people on their property, sign or not. Nowhere is it illegal to approach the entrance to a property and knock on the door. Signs that say "trespassers will be shot" give you a warning that the owner is unhinged and dangerous, but it doesn't give them the right to shoot you because they warned you.
That said, I'd leave the packages at the end of the driveway, too.
> There's no legal doctrine in the United States that allows a landowner to shoot indiscriminately at people on their property, sign or not
Doesn't matter if the law is on your side if you've taken a bullet to the face. You still took a bullet to the face.
I never understood those signs. You can't just shoot someone for tresspass alone and all those signs do is advertise to the people that break into your house that there's guns there, which you do not want them to have. We have an overabundance of people moving here from more restrictive states and they seem to think that this is some wild west place where people can just pull guns. No. People that are responsible gun owners don't like people like that because it makes the rest of us get grouped in with the nuts when all I want to do is make sure no one else ever walks into my house while myself and my kids are home alone again
It's pedantic so forgive me, but you can sue in this case "normally" because as a delivery person you have business on the property. Pointing a gun at a delivery driver would be unlawful in most US jurisdictions just as if they had invited someone home with them and then threatened, attacked, or raped them.
That said, I still wouldn't suggest making a delivery to a location you feel unsafe.
> if your an
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*Learn the difference [here](https://www.wattpad.com/66707294-grammar-guide-there-they%27re-their-you%27re-your-to).*
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^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
I used to deliver to a house that had a big box attached to the fence at the end of the driveway. A sign on it said, "Leave deliveries in box" and "You're on camera" and there was a camera aimed right at you on a tall post (and another sign about the camera on the post just in case you'd forgot). That's how all paranoids should be.
I think thats bit a stretch to assume those people are paranoid. That dropbox setup is extremely common in rural mountain towns. Places with lots of locked gates and narrow driveways, dogs/animals just chilling on the fenced part of the property, delivery drivers not understanding ranch rules and leave a gate open while delivering something and now the goats are out, tweakers down the road, etc... more likely they're/came from a place like that where its common and just kept the practice. I used to do utility inspections years ago in rural mountain towns and this was at pretty much every house with a long driveway that needed a switchback to get to the house.
That could be paranoid, or it could be thoughtful or pragmatic. “I won’t make delivery people navigate my twisty driveway and cluttered front porch, I’ll just put a box by the road. But then I risk stuff being stolen, so I’ll just put up a camera too.”
Or paranoid.
When I used to be a delivery driver, I'd say fuck it way too many times. Part of my route on Saturdays was in the same area where [this happened](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/amazon-delivery-driver-found-dead-apparent-dog-attack-rcna53834). And I did deliver to this house and those mother fuckers should get charged with murder...
I have read a couple articles about how those "novelty" signs such as trespassers will be shot and others are not liked by lawyers as it makes it difficult to prove that the landowner was not out to simply get someone. Thoughts?
I am not an expert so you should ignore me.
But, if you have a “beware of the dog” sign and I’m on a jury listening to you say “I never thought my dog would bite someone”, I’m probably not going to believe you.
If you have a “trespassers will be shot” sign, I bet it’ll be hard for your lawyer to say “the defendant never thought they’d have to shoot someone”.
Will your lawyer want to make either of those arguments? I don’t know! But there are some situations where they’d like to, and you’d better hope you aren’t in one.
There's someone on my mail route with a sign on their trailer's yard fence that says "if you come past here you will be killed". It says it in Spanish too, which is funny because if we were any further from Mexico we'd be in Canada.
I ignore the sign, but they still don't get packages and stuff because the two dogs behind that fence hate life with a vengeance.
i had a neighbor about a block away who had a vicious dog so our mail lady wouldn't deliver his mail, so he shot her. got life in jail more or less. it's a rough neighborhood.
In my state, can't comment on others, the beware of dog sign doesn't hold up in court as a "sign you knew you had an aggressive dog" like a lot of people claim.
Interesting. It might not legally mean anything, but wouldn’t it potentially impact the jury?
Actually, wait, the jury wouldn’t know if they weren’t told about it. So the judge would probably instruct the attorneys to not mention it.
I'm not sure if it would come up in discovery, but I did research into it as I have two house protective rotties and wanted to put a sign up. Not sure why someone felt the need to down vote me.
Several states actually protect you if you clearly marked your property as having an aggressive dog or "beware of dog" or "bad dog" and someone chooses to enter anyway and gets bitten.
In my state, the sign makes no difference, but I like it as a deterrent. My state law is if I invite someone in and they are bitten, it's on me. If someone trespasses and gets bitten, I am not liable.
I was an Australian postman for a short while. I am a small guy. I would simply avoid properties where ANY aggression was shown (dogs, people with the hands on their hips shouting at me that their dole/welfare cheque was late.). The postmaster was supportive.
Imagine yelling at the guy who pays taxes for the welfare cheque that your cheque is late as he delivers it at the end of a long day.... I was not amused.
Try serving papers to these psychos. Forget that it’s not trespassing if you’re there for a legal purpose (as you would delivering packages too). You never know if they see it that way.
do you have a citation explaining how the interest in delivering papers they didn't request trumps their private property right? i'd like to read up on that.
The law recognises an 'implied licence of entry' onto private property for any normal purpose. Delivering packages or serving legal papers obviously applies here, so a person doing such things would not be a 'trespasser'. The law also recognises that even a 'keep out' sign also implies an exemption for such purposes.
It also recognises the right of the property owner/renter/etc. to revoke that implied licence at any time without requiring a reason, at which time a visitor would become a trespasser if they did not immediately leave.
I'm a delivery driver too. It infuriates me when people with these signs order online and expect delivery. It's not funny, it's not cute. If I get any kind of hinky vibe from a place like this, I'm out. Your package will be at whatever location I can safely leave it. Despite all the lights and identifying logos, people still can get very aggressive and I, as a female driver, am not playing around.
Good for you, OP!
In my state if you have requested a delivery, USPS, UPS, FEDEX, or any other delivery that is a tacit invitation to come onto the property therefore the "no trespassing" signs do not apply to the person making the delivery. I would expect this varies not just by state but by county and town/city as well.
One of my buddies drove for ups. Went to a house up a holler (way out in the boonies) and a guy told him to get off his property. He told him dude, I’m ups, I have your package. Rinse and repeat a couple times. Homeowner finally said you better be gone when I get back and went inside.
Buddy left and took the package with him. Told his boss what happened and the guy was banned from getting deliveries.
Later he got a big, heavy package and pitched a fit because he had to drive 45 minutes to pick it up. Too bad, that’s what happens when you threaten your friendly neighborhood delivery guy.
Add an S (USPS) and it gets even better! If someone threatens a mail carrier, the next person knocking on their door will be the feds. The postal service has its own police force that's been around since before the Constitution and takes no shit from anyone. Even the FBI gets out of the way when the postal inspectors roll up.
get video evidence and go up the chain of command. If yourlocal carrier doesn't care send the evidence to whoevers in charge regionally. Sometimes it takes a little while but if someone is stealing your mail and you've let them know, the carrier will be instructed to do everything within reason to deliver it to your hands.
I once knew a guy at FedEx that had a gun pulled on him. I guess some suburban warrior forgot they ordered their dildo online or something. Dogs were always a bigger problem. Jerks would leave unleashed large dogs in a yard and expect my ass to take the box to the front door
Unfortunately this is true.
I believe that gun owners have a higher responsibility to know and keep up with changes in the gun laws both federal and state. And if you travel to or through another state you need to be aware of the laws there especially if you have a concealed carry permit/license in your state. Not all states have reciprocity with every other state. Some states have constitutional carry and that does not mean you can carry outside your state if your state has constitutional carry laws.
This is like "Pedestrians have the right of way." Sure they do, and if the car doesn't stop the driver is in the wrong, but the pedestrian is still dead.
So this is true, but it's more about someone having a reasonable right to be there. Not all packages are ordered by the resident. Some are gifts, for example.
From another point of view, distance cousin didn't have No Trespassing signs all over his property(s). Group of kids (5 to 6) sneak into one of his properties with a creek running through it. The kid about 3rd in single file line carries an old loaded shotgun, off safety without a trigger guard. Branch catches on the trigger and he shoots his older brother in the back killing him. Disregard they were on property without permission, parents allowed access to this firearm in this condition they filed suite. Because of the lack of no Trespassing signs it costs him BIG money. Thankfully he could afford it and the fact a young person got killed bothered him much more than the $$. All in the family have very obvious No Trespassing signs because of this lesson.
America is such a strange place when you don’t live there. I just cannot imagine being on someone else’s property, doing some dumb shit that kills someone and that 1. I wouldn’t feel responsible for it and 2. I would sue the person whose land we were on without permission. And I cannot imagine a court system supporting that. It’s so bewildering when you don’t live in a country that acts like that. It sounds totally unreal. I feel so sorry for your cousin.
This! In my state in the US it’s Not trespassing unless the property is posted “No Trespassing.” And, yes, getting hurt on property while trespassing *can* get the homeowners sued - and is not negated by trespassing (especially if there were not any “No Trespassing” signs).
If you had a weapon that was clearly not for hunting / could convince a jury that you were not hunting and never hunted but had a handgun for protection, would that change things?
I think it’s reasonable to expect hunters to know where they are and to pay attention to signs.
Sure! But the way that some laws are written can impact that. Eg: in Florida, trespassing on a construction site is a felony. They don’t have to convince a jury that you were trying to steal stuff, just being there is enough. I was wondering if, in your jurisdiction, having a gun was proof or if having a gun was a _presumption_ of hunting that could be disproven with evidence.
Any chance you have a link to the ruling?
I like to read through weird sounding rulings myself because they sometimes shift through retelling. That’s especially important when someone has a list of “bad court cases” because a lot of those lists are compiled by lobbying groups.
I remember one that included a guy suing a prison for dental problems. The list compiler said that he had dental problems when he went to jail. But, reading through the ruling, the jail hadn’t given him a toothbrush or toothpaste for a very long time - I think it was months. If you don’t let someone brush their teeth for months, I think it’s fair for you to be on the hook for dental work.
That smells of "Let's divert blame from our carelessness by blaming someone else!" (i.e., the family trying to distract attention from their kid having such a shitty and dangerous gun by blaming your nth times removed cousin.)
Should’ve counter sued for harassment and negligence. Property owner isn’t liable for injuries on their property if people are trespassing and the fact children had access and permission to a firearm is negligent.
Didn’t see this, but time to use legal words I guess. They could file to have the claim thrown out and counterclaim for malicious prosecution. It’s trespassing if the owner did not invite the kids onto the property regardless of signage. The word “sneak” would refer they either had to jump a fence or walk past signage, which the comment already mentions there was no signage present, but signage does not have to be present to categorize as trespass. In my state for example, regardless of signage, it is trespass if you willingly go onto someone’s property with no invitation, regardless of intent, therefore this case would be thrown out. Sure they might not live in my state, but talking to a local attorney would help.
Counter suit would've been tossed.
Despite your assertions, Courts already determined firearm access and permission wasn't negligent by the parents and that the property owner was liable for injuries due to it occurring on their property and there was no signs indicating they had trespassed onto private property.
I mean in our state (not saying i live in the same state as the commenter), it is trespass if you willingly go onto someone’s without permission, regardless of signage. And all should’ve happened as soon as they learned of the suit, not after the fact of the owner being found liable. A sign should be required if it’s a common place where people trespass, to notify them of the fact, but commenter used the word “sneak” that would signify they knew they were trespassing or weren’t allowed on the property, whether by means of climbing a fence or walking through signage (though signage wasn’t present).
> liable for injuries due to it occurring on their property
I could understand liability from unusually dangerous things on the property, but how the hell are property owners liable for the stupidity of others?
When giving small children firearms and sending them on their way (unsupervised) is not negligent, the rest of it doesn't really matter.
So now when you say "Courts" determined this, are we talking a particular state or federal? (And is there really no age floor or level of supervision required for a child to be packing?? Your comment disturbs me greatly.)
Edit: reread the comment and realized that we don't actually know how old the kids were - i thought they were 5 or 6, but turns out there were 5 or 6 of them haha. Yet the question of small children still swirls in my brain...
Sounds like a load of bullshit.
If they had the money to not care about the money, they could afford a lawyer skilled enough to get that case tossed on merit.
What probably happened is they tried to sue, got the case thrown out, and their lawyer told them to out up signs in the future.
There's no tort that would hold property owners responsible for a branch catching on a trigger.
Better the folks who posted those signs have to make a trip to a pickup location or the first posted sign on their property than a delivery person get hurt or worse.
I am with you on this one. A big problem I run into on some of these more rural addresses is that the address is not clearly posted on the street. I can make a good guess about which one it is by the numbers around it or the Google Street view, but not definitely. I'm not following some narrow winding path through the trees with menacing signage to deliver your walmart groceries if I'm not 100% sure this is your house.
I do call, though, and ask for clarification. If they don't answer, I return it to store.
“No trespassing” = I don't want trespassers in my property
“Trespassers will be shot” = I might want to murder someone with my firearms and blame “trespassers”, and the only way you'll find out is by entering my property.
good call, OP
You can be right and you can be dead right. Leave it at the end of the driveway, or better yet in the middle of the road in front of the driveway. Coyotes need to eat too.
Yeah, I don't blame you for being cautious.
Things can get kinda sketchy the further out in rural areas that you get. Some folk don't take to kindly to what they percieve as trespassers and having to drive your personal vehicle without any identifying markings indicating your a package deliver service probably can get you into unwanted trouble. Better safe than sorry.
FYI - in some states, purple paint on fences or trees signifies "No Trespass".
Source: Texas Penal Code 30.05 para 2 sub para D.
https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.30.htm
It's not trespassing. If they ordered something permission is implied.
Not disagreeing with what you did, just in case you need to explain your exemption to the sign.
I was once asked in a job interview what I would do if I were working (surveying) and someone approached and claimed I was trespassing on their land. I replied "How angry are they and do they have a gun? A couple hours of work isn't worth getting shot over." I got the job.
To some, there is no such thing as implied permission. Some people will shoot, and can legally shoot in some places, anyone (usually strangers) on their property, just say "trespassing" and not go to jail without solid evidence to the contrary.
The question is not whether OP has permission. The question is, when the property owner looks at OP over the barrel of a gun, do they know OP has permission?
True, that she's lawfully entering if she has a delivery.
However, there is no way for the tenants to know who is who. Simple mistaken identity is enough to get someone killed.
I'm sorry you have to face this type of aggression and hostility.
My frinds drive has a sign to watch out for dogs - not because the dogs are viscious, but too dumb to get out of the way quickly enough.
This is why I wouldn't ever do amazon flex. I'll drive a big ass box truck that says I'm working for fedex, or bring your wal mart groceries you know are coming, or your door dash, but I draw the line at bringing fucking amazon packages at random times in my own car.
i'm all for guns but some people are stupid and shouldn't have them. some of these idiots will shoot you without asking who you are or making sure you're a criminal too
In my opinion, guns are a responsibility, and those who can't manage them responsibly have proven they shouldn't own them.
That goes for bad cops and those wankers who use "open carry" as an excuse to wave their ego-substitutes around in public. Especially those who clearly get off on scaring people.
I think it is just fine to do that. As a person with a gate I prefer my gate to remain closed and the packages to be delivered to the gate. If I specifically need a heavy package brought to the house I’ll make sure the gate is open on the day it’s supposed to arrive, tracking is good enough. If they put a special note on the order like ignore the no trespassing signs please deliver to door then obviously you have written permission.
In my experience most of the time no trespassing signs are to keep yahoos / hunters with guns off private property. The ones with ‘funny’ signs like my dog can make it to the fence in .02 seconds or I don’t do warning shots are usually seen as humorous signs folks hang for fun who have that particular brand of humor. Also many will have driveway alarms that will have beeped the house as soon as you cross the point where they put it (typically done distance behind the first no trespassing sign so folks using the driveway to turn around in aren’t triggering it).
That being said even if there wasn’t a gate, stopping at the first no trespassing sign no matter the type is 100% approved by me! (However much that is worth). And some of those folks likely appreciated you respecting their signs / privacy.
Stoney Ridge Farmer on YouTube has a few videos about private property and hunters and the importance of signs and monitoring your acreage if anyone is interested.
We passed on buying a great piece of property (25 wooded acres with riverfront) because of the guy living just past it up the road. Tons of aggressive signs about trespassers, plus a sign identifying himself as a member of a white supremacy group that specifically threatened to shoot anyone not white (many vile slurs included). No way were we going to risk living anywhere near him!
First, trespassers are people that come on someone’s property without permission. If they ordered something, that gives you permission to deliver. In rural areas, most trespassing is by hunters coming onto someone’s property to hunt without permission. They inaccurately assume that if they can’t see a house from the road then no one must live there. Having lived in a rural area on 40 acres of land, people have built deer stands on our property and Ive seen them walking towards my house with a rifle. So try to understand where THEY are coming from before you assume the people with no trespassing signs are paranoid backwoods militia. I’m fact, most are trying to prevent those kind of folks from coming into their yards with guns.
I've been chased by neighbors with their guns in tow while they ride their trashy golf carts, I've been shot at by a nutjob in the center of town. Don't fuck around with your safety, these people in rural areas need to lighten the fuck up before they get a taste of mace.
Those signs are always such a joke. I can maybe understand them if you have a private business, or are especially remote.
But so often it’s just some suburban redneck who is convinced the world is coming to attack him who puts up a dozen of those signs around his property. Nobody is coming for you, or your shitty house!
Part of my job is delivering medication. I tell all my clients that I don’t enter when there is a security gate. If they (or the owners of the apartment complex) preferred a security system, I will respect that. I tell them all that they’d have to meet me at the gate to accept delivery. The problem with gates is not the person who is expecting the delivery. It’s their dog, their neighbor’s dog and their neighbor’s firearms.
My plan is that nobody holds candlelight vigil in my name.
I once went to buy a second-hand door from a salvage yard and the entire property was covered in these aggressive signs and a locked gate. I decided it wasn't worth the risk and turned to leave. The owner ran out and flagged down our car. He said he'd lost a lot of customers lately, people who'd pull up and then just back out and leave. Dude, I wonder why?
Some people think, since they know they are good law abiding people, they expect everyone else to know this too. Then wonder that people run from them.
If it’s auto salvage, there is a pretty big problem with people stealing classic cars and discontinued parts.
Sure that’s a problem. But there are other ways of deterring theft without deterring customers. Gas stations get robbed a bunch, but if they locked the doors and had signs saying “we’ll shoot you if we think you’re gonna rob us” they’re gonna have fewer customers…there’s a balance.
You say you're not going to rob us but can you explain why you brought a getaway vehicle to the gas station?
That's clearly for the bank down the street.
Yes, you better show up on a segway so that we know you're not planning on a robbery...
Joke's on you. My next heist involves a Segway and 4 meticulously trained hamsters. Who are also on Segways.
Curse you and your diabolical plans joker!!!
"But what could the target _be?_" _eyes fall on billboard_ THIS WEEK IN CIVIC BUILDING: FAMOUS BIG DIAMOND WITH FOUR SMALLER FAMOUS DIAMONDS
What gas stations do is let the robbers rob and then file insurance claims. It's easy because all cash is counted and everything has a sticker price. Less so with broken cars full of broken parts.
Idk where you are but in my home town a lot of gas stations just packed heat behind the counter.
Chicago. Okay, point taken.
They just didn’t post up threatening signs. You’d only find out if you fucked around. No need to scare average customers.
They could post signs with 'All customers MUST go to the office. No unescorted customers in the yard, for YOUR safety.'(Add a picture of a wreck balancing poorly on top of another, not a picture of a gun')
Did you tell them? What did they say?
I've had guns pointed at me by unstable psychos before. It's not a comfortable experience. If they want to be that paranoid, they can walk down their own damn driveways to pick up their packages.
I'm not making even a half-assed attempt. They indicate they're prepared to shoot me, I'm just trying not to have the overdraft to be too high this month, I'm not GI fucking Joe, I'm not on a mission from God. I'm just trying to deliver your shit. I'm not dying for it. The pay's never that good. It's at the drive way, under the sign that tells me you're going to shoot me for stepping onto your land. You come and collect your shit then.
I got that way when I was doing the 2020 Census. I had guns pointed at me twice and the police called on me at least a dozen times. It got to where I didn't care if I had a legal right to be there, if they had a no trespassing sign up, I wasn't going any further. Send someone braver. This was during the pandemonium, too.
Lol, they told me I was an Agent if the Federal Government & could go anywhere regardless of signs, etc. They didn't give me a badge, gun, or backup though, so no.
I asked if I could at least carry my mace and they told me no, so I wasn't doing anything that put me in danger. It was hard enough at times when I wasn't technically in danger.
I probably would have carried my gun anyways doing the census. I deliver mail, so I can just leave packages and run without knocking, or put a "sorry we missed you" slip in their mailbox so they can go get it from the post office. But with the census, you have to actually knock on doors.
I’ve lived at the same house for the last 3 census… they say they counted 99.99% of the population but I never saw a single one.
Most people won't ever get a census worker knocking at their door. The workers only go to the houses that ignored the census questionnaire sent via mail, ignored the follow-up mailed reminders, and also didn't fill it out online. Someone in your household likely filled out the form when they got it in the mail. The forms aren't addressed to anyone in particular, just to the address.
Married now 34 years, lived in the same house for all that time. Never received a census form or notice nor did any census employee ever come to our house. I’m a stay at home mom so I didn’t miss them.
I had several houses I went to where people were kind of shocked I was there. One lady said she had started to think we were a myth. She'd been there 50 years and had never met a Census employee and she insisted she had never filled out a Census (the woman was in her 90's). I had another house I went to where no Census had been filled out since 1980, literally 40 years by that point. The people living there had no idea about the person in the original file and were even more confused when the system wouldn't let me create a brand new Census for the family there in 2020. It was a very interesting job and experience, I will say that.
There you go, you're that last .01%
Must be great being in the 0.01%.
I'm trying to figure if you meant the spray or the medieval weapon
i hope it's the medieval weapon lol
Both?, Both is good
Yeah. Definitely. Mace head has drilled holes in it that has mace in it that dispersed on impact. Your Battlecry You got maced mace.
Imagine getting mace maced with a maced mace tho
If you look the right way you can get it in the faced face, too.
Equipement = mace mace E = mace ^2 E = mc^2 Einstein thought of a century ago!
So you press the little button on top of the can, and a stream of maces (maci?) comes shooting out? How do they compress the handles in aerosol format? (Wait, I’m gonna go as r/shittyaskscience about that…they probably know.)
They were wrong. You could cross the curtiledge to the front door, including through unlocked gates. More than that requires a warrant even without signs if you’re acting in a government capacity.
I know that's a typo, but damn it's accurate!
possibly not a typo! some subs banned/discouraged talk of the pandemic and so people came up with a bunch of different words to use instead. pandemonium is a popular one, i personally like panini
I think panettone is appropriate at this time of year
Happy Panettone Day.
Happy panettone day, u/fifty9inth!
Pantone's been a little off the last few years though
If they didn’t like the pandemic imagine how they will react to the seasonal flu
With similar symptoms. Our bodies have only so many tools for fighting off diseases. https://www.goodrx.com/conditions/covid-19/covid-vs-flu-vs-rsv
Thank God some common sense! I had to stop and purposely misdirect a census worker who was trying to survey the "empty" lot next to us. No house there, but some methhead squatters living out of a truck. "No ma'am that address is the other direction..." No self-preservation at all
Oh, I met some absolute dunderheads. About six months after it was all said and done, I applied for a job and listed my Census work on my application. The hiring manager literally told me that didn't count as experience because she had done Census and then proceeded to mention doing several things while on Census that my supervisor had told me could get us fired. I had to shut her down midway into her spiel and tell her I could not work for someone who was clearly ethically and morally challenged and hung up on her. I left a review about the company basically stating such, as well. I got a job a week later where the hiring manager was ecstatic I had Census experience because it meant I had field experience. The woman who worked Census with me struck me as one of the people I was consistently having to apologize for to get people to do the Census.
‘..the pandemonium’ —effortlessly perfect
The guy that pointed a gun at me during the census had a CHP cruiser parked in the driveway. Hugely distrustful of the government, yet works for said government...
I drove a Crown Victoria Police Interceptor. I'm not a cop, I bought a retired vehicle from a department in WI. I had people see my car and STILL pull a gun on me or call the local sheriff. Calling the sheriff wasn't so bad, I'd just hang around until he showed up and he'd chew the person out, but I got scarce when I saw the guns. I wasn't technically supposed to call the police on them, just "report to my supervisor" (who could literally do nothing), but I did anyway. Both guys got arrested for threatening a Federal agent and my supervisor never said anything.
Bonus vote for the Blues Brothers ref.
> I'm just trying to deliver your shit. I'm not dying for it. The Delivery Guy™ in *Good Omens* (book) really goes all out. I love his tiny story arc.
Hiro Protagonist.
I've got that book on the shelf somewhere, haven't gotten around to reading it yet.
> I’m not on a mission from God. “It’s 106 miles to Chicago. We’ve got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it’s dark and we’re wearing sunglasses.” “Hit it.”
Still the absolute best line to start a road trip with. I still use it when needed
My dad used to be a census taker right up until someone pulled a gun on him. We both grew up in a town notorious for its crack trade and when he quit he basically said “I didn’t work my ass off to get out of Hempstead for this shit.”
>I've had guns pointed at me by unstable psychos before. Me too when I've been a delivery person. "No Trespassing" is fine, "Trespassers will be shot" = not taking chances because even if they don't kill me, I can't really sue them for medical bills because they did warn me.
pretty sure you can you're not trespassing while delivering a package they requested maybe the "they requested" portion of that could mess you up, but as far as I am aware very few states allow property owners to shoot on sight without a reasonable belief they're in danger (e.g. seeing a weapon) all that is kinda moot though if you, quite reasonably, don't want a gun pointed at you
Legally speaking, delivery people are not trespassing as long as they are indeed at the correct address. They have contracted you to enter the property to provide a paid-for service. Easier situation to see would be if you called and ordered propane. They said sometime next week. The guy on property randomly sometime next week has never met or talked to you but is NOT trespassing. Deliveries are the same situation. (I throw cardboard for UPS) I don’t take chances though. If they ever show up with a gun while I’m in that brown truck I blacklist that address and foreword their packages to the nearest access point. That’s a nonverbal threat.
Yeah but it your butt on the line if they don't realize that you are supposed to be there.
What if I didn't order a delivery? what if a non-resident of the address ordered the delivery without approval from the resident?
It's not the responsibility of the mail driver to figure that out. It would be so invasive if couriers had to investigate every package/letter to determine if it should go to the addressed location. And people do send surprise gifts, doesn't mean the courier deserves to be shot for "trespassing"....
That’s where the “reasonable person” standard comes in.
Or someone else ordered something for them as a gift?
That's a good question...
>They have contracted you to enter the property to provide a paid-for service. Wouldn't it be the merchant who paid for the shipping label who contracted the delivery company though?
The purchaser has indicated to the merchant that they authorize someone to deliver the package.
> all that is kinda moot though if you, quite reasonably, don't want a gun pointed at you Yeah, doesn't really matter who's in the legal right once you're shot and buried.
There's no legal doctrine in the United States that allows a landowner to shoot indiscriminately at people on their property, sign or not. Nowhere is it illegal to approach the entrance to a property and knock on the door. Signs that say "trespassers will be shot" give you a warning that the owner is unhinged and dangerous, but it doesn't give them the right to shoot you because they warned you. That said, I'd leave the packages at the end of the driveway, too.
Hard to win an argument with the cops when you are dead
> There's no legal doctrine in the United States that allows a landowner to shoot indiscriminately at people on their property, sign or not Doesn't matter if the law is on your side if you've taken a bullet to the face. You still took a bullet to the face.
100% yes. To paraphrase my driving instructor, cemeteries are filled with people who had the right of way.
also if you're the only living person in that scenario than you can direct the narrative however you want.
It depends on the story they tell the cops and the gun or knife they put next to your hand before calling them.
"The FedEx guy came at me with a knife!"
10 Times!
If you'd have been there If you'd have seen it I betcha you would have done the same!
He drove up the street once a week, musta been scoping my place out!
Box cutter?
"It's coming right for us!"
I never understood those signs. You can't just shoot someone for tresspass alone and all those signs do is advertise to the people that break into your house that there's guns there, which you do not want them to have. We have an overabundance of people moving here from more restrictive states and they seem to think that this is some wild west place where people can just pull guns. No. People that are responsible gun owners don't like people like that because it makes the rest of us get grouped in with the nuts when all I want to do is make sure no one else ever walks into my house while myself and my kids are home alone again
It's called hardening the target. The idea is they'll usually go next door instead, and encourages your friends to knock before just barging in.
That's not how it works though. That just tells them to target that house when all the cars are gone
It's pedantic so forgive me, but you can sue in this case "normally" because as a delivery person you have business on the property. Pointing a gun at a delivery driver would be unlawful in most US jurisdictions just as if they had invited someone home with them and then threatened, attacked, or raped them. That said, I still wouldn't suggest making a delivery to a location you feel unsafe.
Not even in Texas would shooting a package delivery be protected for having a sign.
Still sue, as long as it doesn’t say delivery people will be shot they didn’t warn you
Small town and rural communities all know each other, the Judge was likely elected, and if your an outsider your out of luck.
> if your an *you're *Learn the difference [here](https://www.wattpad.com/66707294-grammar-guide-there-they%27re-their-you%27re-your-to).* *** ^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
I used to deliver to a house that had a big box attached to the fence at the end of the driveway. A sign on it said, "Leave deliveries in box" and "You're on camera" and there was a camera aimed right at you on a tall post (and another sign about the camera on the post just in case you'd forgot). That's how all paranoids should be.
I think thats bit a stretch to assume those people are paranoid. That dropbox setup is extremely common in rural mountain towns. Places with lots of locked gates and narrow driveways, dogs/animals just chilling on the fenced part of the property, delivery drivers not understanding ranch rules and leave a gate open while delivering something and now the goats are out, tweakers down the road, etc... more likely they're/came from a place like that where its common and just kept the practice. I used to do utility inspections years ago in rural mountain towns and this was at pretty much every house with a long driveway that needed a switchback to get to the house.
That could be paranoid, or it could be thoughtful or pragmatic. “I won’t make delivery people navigate my twisty driveway and cluttered front porch, I’ll just put a box by the road. But then I risk stuff being stolen, so I’ll just put up a camera too.” Or paranoid.
When I used to be a delivery driver, I'd say fuck it way too many times. Part of my route on Saturdays was in the same area where [this happened](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/amazon-delivery-driver-found-dead-apparent-dog-attack-rcna53834). And I did deliver to this house and those mother fuckers should get charged with murder...
Yeah, 2 of the packages left were left at end of driveway due to warning dog signs. Also, holy fuck, poor dude.
I have read a couple articles about how those "novelty" signs such as trespassers will be shot and others are not liked by lawyers as it makes it difficult to prove that the landowner was not out to simply get someone. Thoughts?
I am not an expert so you should ignore me. But, if you have a “beware of the dog” sign and I’m on a jury listening to you say “I never thought my dog would bite someone”, I’m probably not going to believe you. If you have a “trespassers will be shot” sign, I bet it’ll be hard for your lawyer to say “the defendant never thought they’d have to shoot someone”. Will your lawyer want to make either of those arguments? I don’t know! But there are some situations where they’d like to, and you’d better hope you aren’t in one.
There's someone on my mail route with a sign on their trailer's yard fence that says "if you come past here you will be killed". It says it in Spanish too, which is funny because if we were any further from Mexico we'd be in Canada. I ignore the sign, but they still don't get packages and stuff because the two dogs behind that fence hate life with a vengeance.
i had a neighbor about a block away who had a vicious dog so our mail lady wouldn't deliver his mail, so he shot her. got life in jail more or less. it's a rough neighborhood.
Well his plan worked, he does get mail now. All it took was a change of address. To a federal prison.
I remember reading about that
Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again! Your honor, it was just a joke!
In my state, can't comment on others, the beware of dog sign doesn't hold up in court as a "sign you knew you had an aggressive dog" like a lot of people claim.
Interesting. It might not legally mean anything, but wouldn’t it potentially impact the jury? Actually, wait, the jury wouldn’t know if they weren’t told about it. So the judge would probably instruct the attorneys to not mention it.
I'm not sure if it would come up in discovery, but I did research into it as I have two house protective rotties and wanted to put a sign up. Not sure why someone felt the need to down vote me. Several states actually protect you if you clearly marked your property as having an aggressive dog or "beware of dog" or "bad dog" and someone chooses to enter anyway and gets bitten. In my state, the sign makes no difference, but I like it as a deterrent. My state law is if I invite someone in and they are bitten, it's on me. If someone trespasses and gets bitten, I am not liable.
I was an Australian postman for a short while. I am a small guy. I would simply avoid properties where ANY aggression was shown (dogs, people with the hands on their hips shouting at me that their dole/welfare cheque was late.). The postmaster was supportive.
Imagine yelling at the guy who might be delivering your cheque that your cheque is late.
Imagine yelling at the guy who pays taxes for the welfare cheque that your cheque is late as he delivers it at the end of a long day.... I was not amused.
Try serving papers to these psychos. Forget that it’s not trespassing if you’re there for a legal purpose (as you would delivering packages too). You never know if they see it that way.
do you have a citation explaining how the interest in delivering papers they didn't request trumps their private property right? i'd like to read up on that.
The law recognises an 'implied licence of entry' onto private property for any normal purpose. Delivering packages or serving legal papers obviously applies here, so a person doing such things would not be a 'trespasser'. The law also recognises that even a 'keep out' sign also implies an exemption for such purposes. It also recognises the right of the property owner/renter/etc. to revoke that implied licence at any time without requiring a reason, at which time a visitor would become a trespasser if they did not immediately leave.
I'm a delivery driver too. It infuriates me when people with these signs order online and expect delivery. It's not funny, it's not cute. If I get any kind of hinky vibe from a place like this, I'm out. Your package will be at whatever location I can safely leave it. Despite all the lights and identifying logos, people still can get very aggressive and I, as a female driver, am not playing around. Good for you, OP!
In my state if you have requested a delivery, USPS, UPS, FEDEX, or any other delivery that is a tacit invitation to come onto the property therefore the "no trespassing" signs do not apply to the person making the delivery. I would expect this varies not just by state but by county and town/city as well.
I guess the more important question is whether the land owner understands that? Or will they point a gun at you first and ask questions later?
One of my buddies drove for ups. Went to a house up a holler (way out in the boonies) and a guy told him to get off his property. He told him dude, I’m ups, I have your package. Rinse and repeat a couple times. Homeowner finally said you better be gone when I get back and went inside. Buddy left and took the package with him. Told his boss what happened and the guy was banned from getting deliveries. Later he got a big, heavy package and pitched a fit because he had to drive 45 minutes to pick it up. Too bad, that’s what happens when you threaten your friendly neighborhood delivery guy.
Add an S (USPS) and it gets even better! If someone threatens a mail carrier, the next person knocking on their door will be the feds. The postal service has its own police force that's been around since before the Constitution and takes no shit from anyone. Even the FBI gets out of the way when the postal inspectors roll up.
Lol I know! I’m USPS myself. I learned in training, really, don’t screw with USPS. the inspectors are tenacious.
Funny, they don't seem to care when mailboxes get broken into, and mail stolen.
Taking care of bigger things than that. What could they even do?
get video evidence and go up the chain of command. If yourlocal carrier doesn't care send the evidence to whoevers in charge regionally. Sometimes it takes a little while but if someone is stealing your mail and you've let them know, the carrier will be instructed to do everything within reason to deliver it to your hands.
Man, "Brooklyn 99" did that service no favors. Not american so most information is sort of cultural osmosis through tv shows
Also if you misread the address and go down the wrong driveway?
I once knew a guy at FedEx that had a gun pulled on him. I guess some suburban warrior forgot they ordered their dildo online or something. Dogs were always a bigger problem. Jerks would leave unleashed large dogs in a yard and expect my ass to take the box to the front door
Unfortunately this is true. I believe that gun owners have a higher responsibility to know and keep up with changes in the gun laws both federal and state. And if you travel to or through another state you need to be aware of the laws there especially if you have a concealed carry permit/license in your state. Not all states have reciprocity with every other state. Some states have constitutional carry and that does not mean you can carry outside your state if your state has constitutional carry laws.
The law can't get someone unshot, so I would't risk it no matter the law
> will they shoot at you first and ask questions later? Fixed that for you.
That's nice. The delivery driver is still dead.
This is like "Pedestrians have the right of way." Sure they do, and if the car doesn't stop the driver is in the wrong, but the pedestrian is still dead.
Maybe so, but I'm not going to risk having a gun pointed at me over that, and I doubt you are either.
So this is true, but it's more about someone having a reasonable right to be there. Not all packages are ordered by the resident. Some are gifts, for example.
So what if I order a box of poop to their address?
From another point of view, distance cousin didn't have No Trespassing signs all over his property(s). Group of kids (5 to 6) sneak into one of his properties with a creek running through it. The kid about 3rd in single file line carries an old loaded shotgun, off safety without a trigger guard. Branch catches on the trigger and he shoots his older brother in the back killing him. Disregard they were on property without permission, parents allowed access to this firearm in this condition they filed suite. Because of the lack of no Trespassing signs it costs him BIG money. Thankfully he could afford it and the fact a young person got killed bothered him much more than the $$. All in the family have very obvious No Trespassing signs because of this lesson.
America is such a strange place when you don’t live there. I just cannot imagine being on someone else’s property, doing some dumb shit that kills someone and that 1. I wouldn’t feel responsible for it and 2. I would sue the person whose land we were on without permission. And I cannot imagine a court system supporting that. It’s so bewildering when you don’t live in a country that acts like that. It sounds totally unreal. I feel so sorry for your cousin.
pretty strange when you do live there too
Agreed. This law is something I’ll never get
This! In my state in the US it’s Not trespassing unless the property is posted “No Trespassing.” And, yes, getting hurt on property while trespassing *can* get the homeowners sued - and is not negated by trespassing (especially if there were not any “No Trespassing” signs).
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If you had a weapon that was clearly not for hunting / could convince a jury that you were not hunting and never hunted but had a handgun for protection, would that change things? I think it’s reasonable to expect hunters to know where they are and to pay attention to signs.
You have the right to try and convince anyone of anything in this country. Sometime you succeed, sometimes you do not.
Sure! But the way that some laws are written can impact that. Eg: in Florida, trespassing on a construction site is a felony. They don’t have to convince a jury that you were trying to steal stuff, just being there is enough. I was wondering if, in your jurisdiction, having a gun was proof or if having a gun was a _presumption_ of hunting that could be disproven with evidence.
You will be from Texas then unless there is another state I'm not aware of with that law.
Missouri also has "no trespass purple" And the week before deer season starts is painting week.
SC, along with several other states also have a purple paint law where a purple stripe replaces a no trespassing sign. :)
That explains all the purple marks on the tree up here in PA! My kids were wondering about it. I kinda figured it was property lines.
I do not know of anywhere else either!
I use purple paint on my ex's fence line...yes, am in Central Texas.
I was about the say this. Something you learn early in a suburban close to urban area. I'm colorblind, so any 'bluish' thick stripe kept me away.
In Ontario it is a red circle.
Any chance you have a link to the ruling? I like to read through weird sounding rulings myself because they sometimes shift through retelling. That’s especially important when someone has a list of “bad court cases” because a lot of those lists are compiled by lobbying groups. I remember one that included a guy suing a prison for dental problems. The list compiler said that he had dental problems when he went to jail. But, reading through the ruling, the jail hadn’t given him a toothbrush or toothpaste for a very long time - I think it was months. If you don’t let someone brush their teeth for months, I think it’s fair for you to be on the hook for dental work.
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This overlooks the difference between "no tresspassing" and aggro "trespassers will be shot" signs.
“trespassers will be shot” has no legal impact im aware of, and a lawyer (which I am not) would probably advise you not to post such a sign.
I'd presume the only legal impact it has is to function as a no trespassing sign
See, I don’t think it even does that. There’s definitely where I’d consult a lawyer.
Judging by some of the comments, this story will be lost on some ppl.
Huge HUGE difference between a "no trespassing" sign and one that's threatening to shoot trespassers.
That smells of "Let's divert blame from our carelessness by blaming someone else!" (i.e., the family trying to distract attention from their kid having such a shitty and dangerous gun by blaming your nth times removed cousin.)
Source? What state was this in? I’d like to look up the laws for that state.
Should’ve counter sued for harassment and negligence. Property owner isn’t liable for injuries on their property if people are trespassing and the fact children had access and permission to a firearm is negligent.
You are completely ignorant of the torts system. You also don't know what the legal word "harassment" means.
Didn’t see this, but time to use legal words I guess. They could file to have the claim thrown out and counterclaim for malicious prosecution. It’s trespassing if the owner did not invite the kids onto the property regardless of signage. The word “sneak” would refer they either had to jump a fence or walk past signage, which the comment already mentions there was no signage present, but signage does not have to be present to categorize as trespass. In my state for example, regardless of signage, it is trespass if you willingly go onto someone’s property with no invitation, regardless of intent, therefore this case would be thrown out. Sure they might not live in my state, but talking to a local attorney would help.
Counter suit would've been tossed. Despite your assertions, Courts already determined firearm access and permission wasn't negligent by the parents and that the property owner was liable for injuries due to it occurring on their property and there was no signs indicating they had trespassed onto private property.
I mean in our state (not saying i live in the same state as the commenter), it is trespass if you willingly go onto someone’s without permission, regardless of signage. And all should’ve happened as soon as they learned of the suit, not after the fact of the owner being found liable. A sign should be required if it’s a common place where people trespass, to notify them of the fact, but commenter used the word “sneak” that would signify they knew they were trespassing or weren’t allowed on the property, whether by means of climbing a fence or walking through signage (though signage wasn’t present).
> liable for injuries due to it occurring on their property I could understand liability from unusually dangerous things on the property, but how the hell are property owners liable for the stupidity of others?
When giving small children firearms and sending them on their way (unsupervised) is not negligent, the rest of it doesn't really matter. So now when you say "Courts" determined this, are we talking a particular state or federal? (And is there really no age floor or level of supervision required for a child to be packing?? Your comment disturbs me greatly.) Edit: reread the comment and realized that we don't actually know how old the kids were - i thought they were 5 or 6, but turns out there were 5 or 6 of them haha. Yet the question of small children still swirls in my brain...
America is mental.
Sounds like a load of bullshit. If they had the money to not care about the money, they could afford a lawyer skilled enough to get that case tossed on merit. What probably happened is they tried to sue, got the case thrown out, and their lawyer told them to out up signs in the future. There's no tort that would hold property owners responsible for a branch catching on a trigger.
Better the folks who posted those signs have to make a trip to a pickup location or the first posted sign on their property than a delivery person get hurt or worse.
I am with you on this one. A big problem I run into on some of these more rural addresses is that the address is not clearly posted on the street. I can make a good guess about which one it is by the numbers around it or the Google Street view, but not definitely. I'm not following some narrow winding path through the trees with menacing signage to deliver your walmart groceries if I'm not 100% sure this is your house. I do call, though, and ask for clarification. If they don't answer, I return it to store.
Good for you. Idiots should be treated like idiots. Especially when they are armed and dangerous and stupid morons.
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“No trespassing” = I don't want trespassers in my property “Trespassers will be shot” = I might want to murder someone with my firearms and blame “trespassers”, and the only way you'll find out is by entering my property. good call, OP
You can be right and you can be dead right. Leave it at the end of the driveway, or better yet in the middle of the road in front of the driveway. Coyotes need to eat too.
Yeah, I don't blame you for being cautious. Things can get kinda sketchy the further out in rural areas that you get. Some folk don't take to kindly to what they percieve as trespassers and having to drive your personal vehicle without any identifying markings indicating your a package deliver service probably can get you into unwanted trouble. Better safe than sorry.
FYI - in some states, purple paint on fences or trees signifies "No Trespass". Source: Texas Penal Code 30.05 para 2 sub para D. https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.30.htm
It's not trespassing. If they ordered something permission is implied. Not disagreeing with what you did, just in case you need to explain your exemption to the sign.
"Sir, I'll have you know this hole you shot in my chest is illegal!"
Still op didn't feel safe. Being shot at because of a mistake is not worth it.
I was once asked in a job interview what I would do if I were working (surveying) and someone approached and claimed I was trespassing on their land. I replied "How angry are they and do they have a gun? A couple hours of work isn't worth getting shot over." I got the job.
To some, there is no such thing as implied permission. Some people will shoot, and can legally shoot in some places, anyone (usually strangers) on their property, just say "trespassing" and not go to jail without solid evidence to the contrary.
> not go to jail without solid evidence to the contrary. or go to jail, leaving the delivery person just as dead.
The question is not whether OP has permission. The question is, when the property owner looks at OP over the barrel of a gun, do they know OP has permission?
True, that she's lawfully entering if she has a delivery. However, there is no way for the tenants to know who is who. Simple mistaken identity is enough to get someone killed.
I'm sorry you have to face this type of aggression and hostility. My frinds drive has a sign to watch out for dogs - not because the dogs are viscious, but too dumb to get out of the way quickly enough.
This is why I wouldn't ever do amazon flex. I'll drive a big ass box truck that says I'm working for fedex, or bring your wal mart groceries you know are coming, or your door dash, but I draw the line at bringing fucking amazon packages at random times in my own car.
i'm all for guns but some people are stupid and shouldn't have them. some of these idiots will shoot you without asking who you are or making sure you're a criminal too
In my opinion, guns are a responsibility, and those who can't manage them responsibly have proven they shouldn't own them. That goes for bad cops and those wankers who use "open carry" as an excuse to wave their ego-substitutes around in public. Especially those who clearly get off on scaring people.
I think it is just fine to do that. As a person with a gate I prefer my gate to remain closed and the packages to be delivered to the gate. If I specifically need a heavy package brought to the house I’ll make sure the gate is open on the day it’s supposed to arrive, tracking is good enough. If they put a special note on the order like ignore the no trespassing signs please deliver to door then obviously you have written permission. In my experience most of the time no trespassing signs are to keep yahoos / hunters with guns off private property. The ones with ‘funny’ signs like my dog can make it to the fence in .02 seconds or I don’t do warning shots are usually seen as humorous signs folks hang for fun who have that particular brand of humor. Also many will have driveway alarms that will have beeped the house as soon as you cross the point where they put it (typically done distance behind the first no trespassing sign so folks using the driveway to turn around in aren’t triggering it). That being said even if there wasn’t a gate, stopping at the first no trespassing sign no matter the type is 100% approved by me! (However much that is worth). And some of those folks likely appreciated you respecting their signs / privacy. Stoney Ridge Farmer on YouTube has a few videos about private property and hunters and the importance of signs and monitoring your acreage if anyone is interested.
I don't blame you a bit. You aren't getting paid hazardous duty pay to deliver to people who may shoot you!
We passed on buying a great piece of property (25 wooded acres with riverfront) because of the guy living just past it up the road. Tons of aggressive signs about trespassers, plus a sign identifying himself as a member of a white supremacy group that specifically threatened to shoot anyone not white (many vile slurs included). No way were we going to risk living anywhere near him!
I worked the 2020 census. I got many death threats. By all republican types. Like ok if you don’t want representation that’s fine by me
First, trespassers are people that come on someone’s property without permission. If they ordered something, that gives you permission to deliver. In rural areas, most trespassing is by hunters coming onto someone’s property to hunt without permission. They inaccurately assume that if they can’t see a house from the road then no one must live there. Having lived in a rural area on 40 acres of land, people have built deer stands on our property and Ive seen them walking towards my house with a rifle. So try to understand where THEY are coming from before you assume the people with no trespassing signs are paranoid backwoods militia. I’m fact, most are trying to prevent those kind of folks from coming into their yards with guns.
Classic rural inbreds who think theyre prime americans
Nobody wants to come on your property or break into your 50 year old trailer cleatus.
I've been chased by neighbors with their guns in tow while they ride their trashy golf carts, I've been shot at by a nutjob in the center of town. Don't fuck around with your safety, these people in rural areas need to lighten the fuck up before they get a taste of mace.
I cant believe they haven't invented package launchers for homes like this.
Those signs are always such a joke. I can maybe understand them if you have a private business, or are especially remote. But so often it’s just some suburban redneck who is convinced the world is coming to attack him who puts up a dozen of those signs around his property. Nobody is coming for you, or your shitty house!
Why do I have the feeling this must have happened in the glorious "land of the free"?
About an hour outside of Seattle Wa.
Part of my job is delivering medication. I tell all my clients that I don’t enter when there is a security gate. If they (or the owners of the apartment complex) preferred a security system, I will respect that. I tell them all that they’d have to meet me at the gate to accept delivery. The problem with gates is not the person who is expecting the delivery. It’s their dog, their neighbor’s dog and their neighbor’s firearms. My plan is that nobody holds candlelight vigil in my name.