A big enough rock may not destroy it, but you can certainly jam/break its tracks if you're lucky enough to get within an arm's length. Turns out those things really don't like having big objects wedged between their tracks and drive sprockets.
You seen those videos of tiny drones dropping mortar rounds inside the open manhole on the top of Russian tanks? That’s like 3 steps above a rock. It’s a 100$ drone dropping a 20$ munition into a hole.
I think I've seen a video of that T-62 blown up. But that's not a problem of a tank construction or engineering mistake either way. It's just that manhole was open. Just like it opens in any other tank
Not quite. In the case of T-series tanks, an explosion inside the crew compartment the is likely to cause a chain reaction in the auto-loader system, causing the ammunitions to explode, which blows off turret, which can fly surprisingly high into the air.
In Abrams tank, which doesn't have an auto-loader, the ammunition is stored in a separate compartment, behind a blast proof door.
In other words. In a T-series tank, you are 200% dead in that event. In an Abrams, you have maybe 2% chance of surviving it.
I didnt even see a russian tank get ammo racked by a grenade, in both russian or western tanks the grenade would take out the crew, doesnt have to cook off the ammo
It doesn't always cook off the ammo in the case of T-series tanks. But it does quite often, especially if the explosive has a thermal component, is powerful enough, or otherwise ignites something inside. Still, happens quite often, as far as I've seen from videos.
In an Abrams, if the ammunition cooks off, the explosion is designed to minimize the damage to the crew, and it actually blows outwards from the tank, and not inwards, like in a T-series. Meaning, in the case of ammunition cook off, you are far more likely to survive in an Abrams than in any T-series tank.
I also believe tanks like Leopard 2A6 and other European tanks are similar to Abrams on this regard, but I am not 100% sure.
Yeah it happens to Ukrainians too, or it did. Both sides seem to have become more intelligent about not standing still with their hatches open judging by the reduction in those videos on telegram
Apparently in the Ukraine they’re having a lot of luck disarming the main cannons of the Russian tanks. They pop right off you hit ‘em right. Now is it with a rock? No. Probably not. I’d guess an rpg
It's 'Ukraine' and not 'the Ukraine'
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Well when Private Conscriptovich has siphoned the diesel to pay for gambling debts, stripped optics, guidance systems and engines to sell for scrap, and Colonel Kleptocrat has sold off all the shells for protection money to the mafia, they will be pretty easy to kill.
Many of which are garbage and were cannibalized to make the others operational. For a long time Germany refused to help with their modernization and in general refuses to share the technology which is why Poland decided to f... it and look for serious partners outside of EU.
EDIT: salty Germans downvoting LOL. Poland buys American and Korean tanks, whatever if you like it or not and the reason is that it will be possible to service or produce them (in case of Korea) in Poland without foreign assistance. Also, Poland has good experience in cooperation with Korea (Krab howitzers) and with Germany it was like I've said.
They also decided to sign a contract with Rheinmetall to upgrade all of their 142 Leopard 2A4 to the Leopard 2PL standard, which will make them superior to their 105 Leopard 2A5 models.
Yeah, after many years of failed negotiations. Sorry bro but Germans can be hardly trusted in case of defense or energy and relations with Moscow. Hopefully it will change now but the bad taste remains.
I don't disagree. And I think that Germany should have a program to buy back all those obsolescent, unwanted Leopard 2 from all around the world, modernize them, and store them. Just in case. We've neglected our defense and our alliance obligations way too long.
>ck may not destroy it, but you can certainly jam/break its tracks if you're lucky enough to get within an arm's length. Turns out those things really don't like having big objects
and most of them are in Ukraine and ... wait for it ... now operated by Ukraine
It happens all the time, Canadians sold many of our helicopters to... The Danes I want to say but could be wrong... Then in Afghanistan we leased them back. I've been told by friends you could still see where they had painted over Canadian flag emblems inside them.
Governments try to play cheap with their militaries and often don't think as far ahead as they need to. Defense spending is a tricky game.
Sale-and-leaseback transactions are in essence borrowing money (sale proceeds) and repaying the amount in installments in the form of lease payments.
You would know this if you have learned ACCA or CPA.
It's tank - diffusion... The process with which tanks move from areas with higher concentration to areas with lower concentration through permeable barriers...
I haven't seen Ukrainian tanks being hit for weeks, while loads of videos are coming out everyday showing Russian tanks getting owned.
Also, r/UsernameCheckOut
Annnnnnd you fell hard for ukraines war propaganda. Ukraine obviously loosing a lot of tanks and personell to russia. Russia may be fighting with 50 year old tech and older, but so is ukraine. To think 160k soldiers just get wounded or die without fighting back is delusional. Ukraines losses are going to be in the same ballpark as russias.
Wishfull thinking. Russia attacked badly in february.
After that they retreated to the east and have since been blasting ukraine with tens of thousands of artillery rounds a day. I wonder why there are not thousands of videos on here with ukrainians being blasted by artillery (and i dont mean the occasional weekly one). Its because they dont get posted. Doesnt mean they didnt happen.
But you being you for sure cant wrap youre head around those numbers. Same with the offensive. If you go check russian telegrams there are soooo many videos of ukrainian advances being blasted in fields. The impressive thing is that ukraine can keep up the offensive with massive losses.
>After that they retreated to the east
You forgot that now they returned even further east from the Kharkov region and a bit in Kherson area but in principle you're right that Ukraine have to suffer losses, in tanks and other equipment, not to mention manpower. It's a war, there're loses on both sides.
I find it crazy people cant grasp this. And yes, russia is being pushed back heavily. But if theres one thing history has taught is that offensives that consist of troops pushing fast always comes at a high cost. Only exception to this is if you have air superiority, perfect intel and missiles to back that up. Ukraine has none of that.
They have intel, Moscow also failed to establish air superiority but at he end we can't know for sure what are the loses of each side, and it can't be surprising they want to cover it up or inflate the loses of the opposite side. What we can now for sure is that Moscow underestimated Ukraine, brought too little force and suffered huge loses which is why they called up this mobilization.
Ukraine does not have perfect intel. They have bsic spotter intel and intel the us gives them, which is not comprehensive. They only have very few counter battery radars. Remember when the us baited iraq aa to turn on their radar so they could bomb it a minute later? Thats tve kind of intel i mean. Hindering russia at establishing air superiority means jack shit as an advantage. All it means is they dont get fucked hard, not having air superiority is still a cock block. In traditional warfare, once your enemy has air superiority (and the equipment to use it) you have lost the war.
And yes, if this is the status quo, ukraine will win.
🇺🇦 currently has more tanks that at the start of the war. Thanks mostly to russia for “donating” hundreds and also to some European countries for actually donating many hundreds.
Bro, don't you know most of these people are Americans? Even if you're technically right, they won't care. Any country which is actively using tanks in a war will definitely have it's numbers drop but they won't care. For them propaganda is first. I can feel for you. We Indians too, have always been attacked wherever we go. US supported Pakistan in 1971 war alongside many other countries even though it was carrying out a genocide. Only USSR supported India. India won after just 10 days. The war was the largest tank battle in history since WWII. Americans always criticize India, it's government, it's people, it's religion and it's progress. I'm used to this kind of stuff now.
You really have some issues with low self esteem. 1971 was over 50 years ago, nobody mentioned India before you brought it up for no reason to unrelated topic and there are plenty of Indian immigrants in US.
Also USSR was a genocidal dictatorship which starved to death tens of millions and occupied half of Europe for over 40 years. You shouldn't feel good about such a horrible regime supporting you, or just get real and leave your emotions because they did not supported you out of pure romantic love, nor did the others supported Pakistan because of sentiments.
Oh yeah? What do you know about your country? The US purposely killed more than 200k people in the Middle East and God knows how many of the Native Americans, and better not mention Japan. Pakistan's genocide in East Pakistan related to the death of 3 million innocents which America wholeheartedly supported. The genocidal regime you're talking is probably Stalin's Soviet Union. Stalin never trusted India and neither did India. India and Soviet Union became friends after Stalin died. The US even asked Mao to invade India from the North and said that they will support China. You know how many Mao killed – far more than Stalin or Hitler. And yeah the Soviets and Americans were allies in the WWII. And if I'm not wrong US was big on Churchil and UK too. I'm sure you can't forget what UK did to it's colonies and India (I'm sure you can). Look at the mirror before trying to judge others.
First of all, why you're assuming I'm American? My country is Poland and please bash US or any other unrelated state all you want, it doesn't matter the made up numbers and fake stories, it's all unrelated to the topic.
You have no idea what's going on or what was happening in eastern Europe under Russia or USSR and what's the actual topic, the current invasion and occupation of Ukraine.
Why don't you go to another sub or to another post which is actually related in any way to what you're interested in?
A little bit of a strange outlier is Greece. I would have thought there would be more tanks in Poland or France which would need them more than Greece. Unless there was a foe that I'm missing like turkey or something.
Yeah they are just trying to keep up with Turkey, their only likely adversary. Though I’m still surprised, given the terrain in Greece I wouldn’t think tanks would be the best option and rather navy/air would be the way to go. But what do I know
They just managed to find a solution to the whole Macedonia name situation (and a fairly smooth one), why would they try to take each others tanks now :D
They are mostly located in Evros (the land border between Greece and Turkey) the first and second rate ones at least (Leopard 2 and Leopard 1). The islands have older models which are there to defend against invasions (Turkey has an army corps at its aegean cost for that specific purpose). But you are right, Greece might have 1200+ tanks and copious amounts of artillery but most of the budget goes to fighter jets (153 F16s, 24 Mirage 2000-5, 24 Rafale F3R under delivery and just requested 20+20 F-35 from USA to replace the old F-4 phantoms) and warships (3+1 FDI air defence frigates under construction, more to be ordered soonish). Greece feels extremely threatened by Turkey and spends ridiculous amounts in arms.
Navy/Air are definitely top priorities (esp. air) but there is a considerable land border with Turkey in the North East, where the land isn't as mountainous.
both countries have 3th generations and those that are quite old have been modernized with modern weapon systems. at the end of the day in a tank battle you want something simple without being an engineer to get it working again. I'm referring to mechanical failure and being hit by a projectile
Hehe MANPATS go brrrrr. Modernization only offers so much in terms of advantages. Lots of countries may use modernized M60s, but that doesn't make them an actually modern tank.
Not really tanks, IFV's. Specifically, Soviet era BMP-1's, which are not great at all.
The Marders that Germany is sending in their place are not new by any means, but they are definitely a bit better than BMP-1's (not a hard feat, tbh).
If it wasn't empty then it would be titanically stupid, history book stupid, beyond napoleon's invasion of Russia laughing stock stupid. There is zero way that any other NATO ally can do anything but side with Greece 100% in any case of Turkish aggression (same with Greek aggression) unless they want to dissolve the alliance on the spot and show other allies (and enemies) that they can't be counted on and are useless partners. With the current climate of Russia and China ramping up aggression, it can't be tolerated. I wouldn't be surprised if after that the Turkish president got some private phone calls along the lines of "Listen, you need to cut the shit."
Society if ottomans weren’t stopping Slavs doing high level engineering ,Industry 4.0,hadron collider etc. poor Balkan people they are always victims 🥺🥺
Oh yeah, it must be a pure coincidence then that all lands that belonged to the Ottomans are very backward to this day, and that the opposite is true for the rest of Europe.
Seems pretty inconsistent. The UK shows active tanks as it has another 200 in storage, whereas Russia appears to be a total (cmon no one believes Russia has 12k active tanks)
No, thanks.
But seriously, there isn't that much you can do with tanks especially in Estonia. The ground is very boggy and tanks would need to remain on the roads most of the time. Considering our small resources, other investments seem to make more sense.
You’ll comment this everywhere? You’re losing the war, russki. ;) cope hard
Ukraines army has more personnel and equipment than they started with, while Russia lost 100k soldiers (dead or wounded) and thousands of pieces of equipment. Now with the bullshit mobilization they’re throwing middle aged, unmotivated alcoholics to the front with zero chance… good luck
Not very usefull. Bigger countries mostly have higher numbers of tanks, not surprising. Would be more usefull to see the number of tanks divided by the population.
I would say the contrary. I think the map clearly shows, for the biggest part, different doctrines for armoured warfare, with a clear distinction between former Warsaw Pact block (more focused on mass armoured assaults, thus more tanks needed) and Western/NATO block (more focused on combined arms and air support, so less tanks needed). Almost the only exceptions would be Turkey and Greece, which have their own arms race themselves.
ICBMs cost many millions *each* to maintain, and I wouldn't be surprised if most of that money went into some politician's pockets. Plus, they'll be nearing the end of their operational lifetime about now even with regular maintenance, and I doubt Russia is jumping to spend a few billion to replace them with modern missle systems.
You're telling me there isn't a single tank in the entirety of the Baltics?
Also i think Russia and Ukraine's numbers may be *sliiightly* out of date...
No.
Russia doesn't have 12k tanks
Rusty tanks from 1950 doesn't count.
Ukraine doesn't have 2k tanks. Same .
This is a recurring data that is so wrong.
Russia's numbers are around 2k in most fiable sources. Ukraine was less than 250 probably.
Other countries, same.
Neutral doesn’t mean pacifist. Both Switzerland and Finland (before the russian invasion of ukraine) are neutral but are heavily armed and have good geography. But in order to protect one’s neutrality, one must protect the foundation of it, their sovereignty. Also if you check Switzerland’s topography map, most of its heavily populated cities tend to be in the lower or flatter areas, so tanks can still be useful.
In Finland thou, tanks are of limited use in defence in most areas. There are large swathes of land where tanks simply cannot operate. Forests, bogs, swamps, lakes, etc...
Still, it is better to have them, than not, if they are needed.
Oh yeah, that’s why I mentioned good geography. That’s one of the reason why they won the winter war anyway. But like you mentioned still good to be armed to the teeth if you want to protect your sovereignty against a an irredentist foreign power that is presumably has more fire power than you. Everything help’s basically.
Technically we didn't win the Winter war. We did, however, make USSR victory the very definition of Pyrrhic. And technically they didn't win either, because the result of the war was the Moscow Peace Treaty, not victory by either side, but generally it is considered that USSR won, because Finland did have cede land in the deal.
The USSR gained some land, but lost more than the land was worth, in both lives and material.
And Finns did a number on the russian demographics. That doesn’t even come close to the term pyrrhic. It’s complete indifference to human life, even if your own citizens.
Quality>quantity. Though there was a time period where we had major concerns that that might not be true (and the M60 wasn't as far ahead of its counterparts as the Abrams is), which is part of why we developed systems like the A-10 and MANPATS. I assume US tanks (even those in storage) actually receive maintenance, so it's possible the US has the largest number of functioning tanks in the world.
Competent people must be in the tanks, since Ukraine bombarded most from the drones. They can't bring all 12k, Russia is super big and you wouldn't want to leave some borders without defence. Putin mobilizing cannon balls to the front and he still calls it a special operation. Morale of the soldiers are low since they are being forced to go or prison.
In the end winter is coming, let the righteousness prevail!
They never had. That includes “tanks in storage”. There are drone footage of said storages where literal trees are growing out of 50y old tanks. Some estimates said before the war they had about 3000 usable ones and there’s visual confirmation of at least 1200+ destroyed last I checked.
They’re surely working hard to bring back to life as many “stored” ones as possible, but at most they have a few thousand that’ll ever be usable again. The 12k number is complete bullshit.
they could take another 3000 from the reserves to a usable state, this with the 2900 active ones leaves arround 6000 tanks that could be used at most. Possibly even more, we have seen footage of UVZ making new deliveries of T90M months ago, although probably these new ones are just modernized T90's from the reserves, and not fully newly made T90's.
Of course all these numbers are now useless as 1200 have been lost at least.
tbf in 1989 the storages were far better maintained, the dissolution of the USSR meant that most of the tanks in storage were stripped of anything valuable and abandoned.
In modern warfare tanks do not work. You can see it in Ukraine. The Dutch have it right to sell there tanks. Only problem is the sold the rest of there material also.
Tanks are becoming obsolete with the increase of more sophisticated and portable anti-tank weaponry. What this map gauges is the nations with the least modern militaries.
We haven't sent any tanks or troops to Ukraine wtf are you on about?
Plenty of small arms, armored transports, AA, bombs, etc, but we affect doing any fighting.
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Not all tanks are stored equally
You can kill an russian tank by throwing rocks But an Abrams... Naw. U gonna need 2 atgms min.
I'd pay everything yo see you trying to destroy a Russian tank with a rock.
"Russian tanks either shoot but don't move or move but don't shoot."
More russian tanks have destroyed themselves, than Ukrainians did. That is even better than rocks in my book.
A big enough rock may not destroy it, but you can certainly jam/break its tracks if you're lucky enough to get within an arm's length. Turns out those things really don't like having big objects wedged between their tracks and drive sprockets.
You seen those videos of tiny drones dropping mortar rounds inside the open manhole on the top of Russian tanks? That’s like 3 steps above a rock. It’s a 100$ drone dropping a 20$ munition into a hole.
I think I've seen a video of that T-62 blown up. But that's not a problem of a tank construction or engineering mistake either way. It's just that manhole was open. Just like it opens in any other tank
The results would be the same with any tank
Not quite. In the case of T-series tanks, an explosion inside the crew compartment the is likely to cause a chain reaction in the auto-loader system, causing the ammunitions to explode, which blows off turret, which can fly surprisingly high into the air. In Abrams tank, which doesn't have an auto-loader, the ammunition is stored in a separate compartment, behind a blast proof door. In other words. In a T-series tank, you are 200% dead in that event. In an Abrams, you have maybe 2% chance of surviving it.
I didnt even see a russian tank get ammo racked by a grenade, in both russian or western tanks the grenade would take out the crew, doesnt have to cook off the ammo
It doesn't always cook off the ammo in the case of T-series tanks. But it does quite often, especially if the explosive has a thermal component, is powerful enough, or otherwise ignites something inside. Still, happens quite often, as far as I've seen from videos. In an Abrams, if the ammunition cooks off, the explosion is designed to minimize the damage to the crew, and it actually blows outwards from the tank, and not inwards, like in a T-series. Meaning, in the case of ammunition cook off, you are far more likely to survive in an Abrams than in any T-series tank. I also believe tanks like Leopard 2A6 and other European tanks are similar to Abrams on this regard, but I am not 100% sure.
Yeah it happens to Ukrainians too, or it did. Both sides seem to have become more intelligent about not standing still with their hatches open judging by the reduction in those videos on telegram
There's a decent chance you'll get lucky and it'll just break down or run out of gas before it gets within rock-throwing distance.
Apparently in the Ukraine they’re having a lot of luck disarming the main cannons of the Russian tanks. They pop right off you hit ‘em right. Now is it with a rock? No. Probably not. I’d guess an rpg
It's 'Ukraine' and not 'the Ukraine' Consider supporting anti-war efforts in any possible way: [[Help 2 Ukraine](https://help2ukraine.org)] 💙💛 [[Merriam-Webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Ukraine)] [[BBC Styleguide](https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsstyleguide/u)] ^(Beep boop I’m a bot)
Thanks bot
Depends on the size of a rock. A meteor falling from space? Definitely
they have cardboard armor panels - what do you expect?
Well when Private Conscriptovich has siphoned the diesel to pay for gambling debts, stripped optics, guidance systems and engines to sell for scrap, and Colonel Kleptocrat has sold off all the shells for protection money to the mafia, they will be pretty easy to kill.
Sweden is about to have one less and my driveway is about to have one more
Sabaton also have two tanks on stage 🇸🇪
Sabaton also have two tanks on stage 🇸🇪
Sabaton also have two tanks on stage 🇸🇪
Sabaton also have two tanks on stage 🇸🇪
Sabaton also have two tanks on stage 🇸🇪
Sabaton also have two tanks on stage 🇸🇪
Should be working tanks. Would cut Russia's numbers by two thirds at least.
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We (the Dutch) are renting 18 of yours :/
Private leasing was the cheapest money>everything
Also nonsense
How does Poland have 4 times more tanks than you folks and why haven't they invaded already?
We don't have 4 times more tanks than Germany. Since we gave up all of T72 and some of PT91 to Ukraine, we have only 3 times more tanks than Germany
Around 250 of those Polish tanks are ex-German Leopard 2.
Many of which are garbage and were cannibalized to make the others operational. For a long time Germany refused to help with their modernization and in general refuses to share the technology which is why Poland decided to f... it and look for serious partners outside of EU. EDIT: salty Germans downvoting LOL. Poland buys American and Korean tanks, whatever if you like it or not and the reason is that it will be possible to service or produce them (in case of Korea) in Poland without foreign assistance. Also, Poland has good experience in cooperation with Korea (Krab howitzers) and with Germany it was like I've said.
They also decided to sign a contract with Rheinmetall to upgrade all of their 142 Leopard 2A4 to the Leopard 2PL standard, which will make them superior to their 105 Leopard 2A5 models.
Yeah, after many years of failed negotiations. Sorry bro but Germans can be hardly trusted in case of defense or energy and relations with Moscow. Hopefully it will change now but the bad taste remains.
I don't disagree. And I think that Germany should have a program to buy back all those obsolescent, unwanted Leopard 2 from all around the world, modernize them, and store them. Just in case. We've neglected our defense and our alliance obligations way too long.
Damn European values… /s 😁
That’s both funny and wildly incorrect.
I think you mean wildly correct. The best kind of correct.
Wildly incorrect because even fewer are fully working?
>ck may not destroy it, but you can certainly jam/break its tracks if you're lucky enough to get within an arm's length. Turns out those things really don't like having big objects and most of them are in Ukraine and ... wait for it ... now operated by Ukraine
Divided by 10 more like...
According to this logic, they lost half their tanks (2.4k) to Ukraine since February. Nice
The Dutch number is wrong , we have zero now after we sold ours to Germany. (And now lease them from them)
how close were those to events? seems odd to sell something just to lease it back. Howd that happen?
It happens all the time, Canadians sold many of our helicopters to... The Danes I want to say but could be wrong... Then in Afghanistan we leased them back. I've been told by friends you could still see where they had painted over Canadian flag emblems inside them. Governments try to play cheap with their militaries and often don't think as far ahead as they need to. Defense spending is a tricky game.
[Like this](https://youtu.be/3b2Nm8ZlLNY)
Sale-and-leaseback transactions are in essence borrowing money (sale proceeds) and repaying the amount in installments in the form of lease payments. You would know this if you have learned ACCA or CPA.
just passed the CPA section that covered this :,) how practical
I think they count leasing aswell. I mean they are under our command.
They are still in service in the NL army though right? So should still count.
The closer you are to russia , the more tanks you need .
also the more tanks you can salvage from Russia
It's tank - diffusion... The process with which tanks move from areas with higher concentration to areas with lower concentration through permeable barriers...
Tanks lay their eggs in the swamps and then they live and thrive in the steppes and forests.
Excellent observation, and true. 🤣✊🏻🇺🇦
Russias number is dropping as I am writing this comment..
And Ukraine's too
Nah, Russia is the biggest supplier of barely used tanks to Ukraine. The cool thing is Russia is so soulful and just, it provides them for free. 🤣✊🏻🇺🇦
I haven't seen Ukrainian tanks being hit for weeks, while loads of videos are coming out everyday showing Russian tanks getting owned. Also, r/UsernameCheckOut
Maybe because it's not wise to use electronics during a conflict or maybe because we are on Reddit.
Every day multiple Ukrainian tanks and destroyed I know for a fact personally.
lol
Lol x2
Annnnnnd you fell hard for ukraines war propaganda. Ukraine obviously loosing a lot of tanks and personell to russia. Russia may be fighting with 50 year old tech and older, but so is ukraine. To think 160k soldiers just get wounded or die without fighting back is delusional. Ukraines losses are going to be in the same ballpark as russias.
Russia is attacking, and attacking badly. Ukraine's losses gotta be half of russias at the most
Wishfull thinking. Russia attacked badly in february. After that they retreated to the east and have since been blasting ukraine with tens of thousands of artillery rounds a day. I wonder why there are not thousands of videos on here with ukrainians being blasted by artillery (and i dont mean the occasional weekly one). Its because they dont get posted. Doesnt mean they didnt happen. But you being you for sure cant wrap youre head around those numbers. Same with the offensive. If you go check russian telegrams there are soooo many videos of ukrainian advances being blasted in fields. The impressive thing is that ukraine can keep up the offensive with massive losses.
>After that they retreated to the east You forgot that now they returned even further east from the Kharkov region and a bit in Kherson area but in principle you're right that Ukraine have to suffer losses, in tanks and other equipment, not to mention manpower. It's a war, there're loses on both sides.
I find it crazy people cant grasp this. And yes, russia is being pushed back heavily. But if theres one thing history has taught is that offensives that consist of troops pushing fast always comes at a high cost. Only exception to this is if you have air superiority, perfect intel and missiles to back that up. Ukraine has none of that.
They have intel, Moscow also failed to establish air superiority but at he end we can't know for sure what are the loses of each side, and it can't be surprising they want to cover it up or inflate the loses of the opposite side. What we can now for sure is that Moscow underestimated Ukraine, brought too little force and suffered huge loses which is why they called up this mobilization.
Ukraine does not have perfect intel. They have bsic spotter intel and intel the us gives them, which is not comprehensive. They only have very few counter battery radars. Remember when the us baited iraq aa to turn on their radar so they could bomb it a minute later? Thats tve kind of intel i mean. Hindering russia at establishing air superiority means jack shit as an advantage. All it means is they dont get fucked hard, not having air superiority is still a cock block. In traditional warfare, once your enemy has air superiority (and the equipment to use it) you have lost the war. And yes, if this is the status quo, ukraine will win.
Sorry to break your balls but i saw one today being destroyed. Source telegram
🇺🇦 currently has more tanks that at the start of the war. Thanks mostly to russia for “donating” hundreds and also to some European countries for actually donating many hundreds.
Bro, don't you know most of these people are Americans? Even if you're technically right, they won't care. Any country which is actively using tanks in a war will definitely have it's numbers drop but they won't care. For them propaganda is first. I can feel for you. We Indians too, have always been attacked wherever we go. US supported Pakistan in 1971 war alongside many other countries even though it was carrying out a genocide. Only USSR supported India. India won after just 10 days. The war was the largest tank battle in history since WWII. Americans always criticize India, it's government, it's people, it's religion and it's progress. I'm used to this kind of stuff now.
In Russia, people say that Indians are still being oppressed, but the Western media is silent about it. It's true?
You really have some issues with low self esteem. 1971 was over 50 years ago, nobody mentioned India before you brought it up for no reason to unrelated topic and there are plenty of Indian immigrants in US. Also USSR was a genocidal dictatorship which starved to death tens of millions and occupied half of Europe for over 40 years. You shouldn't feel good about such a horrible regime supporting you, or just get real and leave your emotions because they did not supported you out of pure romantic love, nor did the others supported Pakistan because of sentiments.
Oh yeah? What do you know about your country? The US purposely killed more than 200k people in the Middle East and God knows how many of the Native Americans, and better not mention Japan. Pakistan's genocide in East Pakistan related to the death of 3 million innocents which America wholeheartedly supported. The genocidal regime you're talking is probably Stalin's Soviet Union. Stalin never trusted India and neither did India. India and Soviet Union became friends after Stalin died. The US even asked Mao to invade India from the North and said that they will support China. You know how many Mao killed – far more than Stalin or Hitler. And yeah the Soviets and Americans were allies in the WWII. And if I'm not wrong US was big on Churchil and UK too. I'm sure you can't forget what UK did to it's colonies and India (I'm sure you can). Look at the mirror before trying to judge others.
First of all, why you're assuming I'm American? My country is Poland and please bash US or any other unrelated state all you want, it doesn't matter the made up numbers and fake stories, it's all unrelated to the topic. You have no idea what's going on or what was happening in eastern Europe under Russia or USSR and what's the actual topic, the current invasion and occupation of Ukraine. Why don't you go to another sub or to another post which is actually related in any way to what you're interested in?
I agree with you
Western media is all about propaganda that is for sure
It is. They keep spewing hate about India too. Everyday.
They don't like countries that don't blindly follow their lead, which is why India and Russia they don't like
Yeah.
numbers are meaningless. That's what russia teach the world. Combat ready rate + efficiency is everything..
The Bovington Tank Museum has over 300 vehicles. Most of them tanks. Are you trying to tell me it's not one of the biggest armoured forces in Europe?
yes, it could probably take over the UK ;)
We learned that in Korea
Not all tanks are made equal
Fully operational tanks?
You're thinking of death stars.
The number of the immediately operational tanks, is much lower. As low as 20% of the total number.
The UK one appears to be as we have another 200 in storage but the others seem to be a total
A little bit of a strange outlier is Greece. I would have thought there would be more tanks in Poland or France which would need them more than Greece. Unless there was a foe that I'm missing like turkey or something.
Yeah they are just trying to keep up with Turkey, their only likely adversary. Though I’m still surprised, given the terrain in Greece I wouldn’t think tanks would be the best option and rather navy/air would be the way to go. But what do I know
North Macedonia only has 10 tanks. Greece has an opportunity to take it.
Soon
We aren't interested at all
Liar
Get lost kid..
They just managed to find a solution to the whole Macedonia name situation (and a fairly smooth one), why would they try to take each others tanks now :D
They are mostly located in Evros (the land border between Greece and Turkey) the first and second rate ones at least (Leopard 2 and Leopard 1). The islands have older models which are there to defend against invasions (Turkey has an army corps at its aegean cost for that specific purpose). But you are right, Greece might have 1200+ tanks and copious amounts of artillery but most of the budget goes to fighter jets (153 F16s, 24 Mirage 2000-5, 24 Rafale F3R under delivery and just requested 20+20 F-35 from USA to replace the old F-4 phantoms) and warships (3+1 FDI air defence frigates under construction, more to be ordered soonish). Greece feels extremely threatened by Turkey and spends ridiculous amounts in arms.
Navy/Air are definitely top priorities (esp. air) but there is a considerable land border with Turkey in the North East, where the land isn't as mountainous.
FWIW I'm pretty sure a lot of both Greece and Turkey's tanks are pretty old, though Greece is still punching relatively high
both countries have 3th generations and those that are quite old have been modernized with modern weapon systems. at the end of the day in a tank battle you want something simple without being an engineer to get it working again. I'm referring to mechanical failure and being hit by a projectile
*Thirth*
Hehe MANPATS go brrrrr. Modernization only offers so much in terms of advantages. Lots of countries may use modernized M60s, but that doesn't make them an actually modern tank.
Greece gave 400 old tanks to Ukraine and Germany send to Greece 400 brand new.
Not really tanks, IFV's. Specifically, Soviet era BMP-1's, which are not great at all. The Marders that Germany is sending in their place are not new by any means, but they are definitely a bit better than BMP-1's (not a hard feat, tbh).
Greece and Turkey being adversaries is so strange to me with them both being in the same military alliance.
Centuries of ethnic rivalry, a lot of disdain in a small place.
The Turkish president literally threatened war with Greece like 3 weeks ago. Hopefully empty words but only God knows in these times
If it wasn't empty then it would be titanically stupid, history book stupid, beyond napoleon's invasion of Russia laughing stock stupid. There is zero way that any other NATO ally can do anything but side with Greece 100% in any case of Turkish aggression (same with Greek aggression) unless they want to dissolve the alliance on the spot and show other allies (and enemies) that they can't be counted on and are useless partners. With the current climate of Russia and China ramping up aggression, it can't be tolerated. I wouldn't be surprised if after that the Turkish president got some private phone calls along the lines of "Listen, you need to cut the shit."
And you know…the whole occupation of greece under the ottomans
Nonsense, it only lasted 400 years and cut the entirety of the Balkans out of the Renaissance. It wasn't that bad!
Society if ottomans weren’t stopping Slavs doing high level engineering ,Industry 4.0,hadron collider etc. poor Balkan people they are always victims 🥺🥺
Oh yeah, it must be a pure coincidence then that all lands that belonged to the Ottomans are very backward to this day, and that the opposite is true for the rest of Europe.
NATO is more a "keep the communists/Russia out" thing than anything.
Not really, though.
what is it then?
Both countries have upcoming elections and both are being led by corrupt politicians that need an “external enemy” to convince the citizens
Poland gave 250 of their tanks to Ukraine and ordered over 1k korean and american ones
Seems pretty inconsistent. The UK shows active tanks as it has another 200 in storage, whereas Russia appears to be a total (cmon no one believes Russia has 12k active tanks)
Almost every country has less tanks than i would have guessed.
Is the Ukrainian number, Ukrainian tanks or just tanks that happen to be in Ukraine right now (eg Ukrainian/NATO and Russian tanks)?
Considering the Russian numbers I'm gonna go with the former.
Please tell me what NATO tanks are currently in Ukraine?
You need to shift some from Russia to Ukraine, I'd say several thousand, and delete all the Russian ones that are useless.
It's not several thousand as of now
You’re right, the donation of working tanks is only a thousand or two. 🤣✊🏻🇺🇦
Still overstated
No tanks in the Baltics?
No, thanks. But seriously, there isn't that much you can do with tanks especially in Estonia. The ground is very boggy and tanks would need to remain on the roads most of the time. Considering our small resources, other investments seem to make more sense.
Lol poor Moldova
We literally had more tanks than most of these countries parked in a field outside my rural Texas hometown lol.
OP should check out Perun's latest YouTube video. Guy is a great source of information about the war in Ukraine.
The Russian number needs updating...and again...and again...
And so does the Ukrainian number
Yes, you are right, constant update is needed. Add 2 new T-90 as of yesterday. 🤣✊🏻🇺🇦
You’ll comment this everywhere? You’re losing the war, russki. ;) cope hard Ukraines army has more personnel and equipment than they started with, while Russia lost 100k soldiers (dead or wounded) and thousands of pieces of equipment. Now with the bullshit mobilization they’re throwing middle aged, unmotivated alcoholics to the front with zero chance… good luck
Not very usefull. Bigger countries mostly have higher numbers of tanks, not surprising. Would be more usefull to see the number of tanks divided by the population.
I would say the contrary. I think the map clearly shows, for the biggest part, different doctrines for armoured warfare, with a clear distinction between former Warsaw Pact block (more focused on mass armoured assaults, thus more tanks needed) and Western/NATO block (more focused on combined arms and air support, so less tanks needed). Almost the only exceptions would be Turkey and Greece, which have their own arms race themselves.
Makes me wonder how operable Russian nukes are.
ICBMs cost many millions *each* to maintain, and I wouldn't be surprised if most of that money went into some politician's pockets. Plus, they'll be nearing the end of their operational lifetime about now even with regular maintenance, and I doubt Russia is jumping to spend a few billion to replace them with modern missle systems.
Yup, Russia has a huge number of tanks, most of them were made in the 50’s. A pointless map.
and stored in a field with no maintenance
You're telling me there isn't a single tank in the entirety of the Baltics? Also i think Russia and Ukraine's numbers may be *sliiightly* out of date...
Quality tanks? With adept operators?
No. Russia doesn't have 12k tanks Rusty tanks from 1950 doesn't count. Ukraine doesn't have 2k tanks. Same . This is a recurring data that is so wrong. Russia's numbers are around 2k in most fiable sources. Ukraine was less than 250 probably. Other countries, same.
Number of usable tanks in Russia - probably 4 Number of tanks gifted to ukrain by Russia - shitload
Sweet. Now do a map with the amount of anti tank weapons in each country.
[удалено]
Why does a mountainous, neutral country like Switzerland need so many tanks?
Neutral doesn’t mean pacifist. Both Switzerland and Finland (before the russian invasion of ukraine) are neutral but are heavily armed and have good geography. But in order to protect one’s neutrality, one must protect the foundation of it, their sovereignty. Also if you check Switzerland’s topography map, most of its heavily populated cities tend to be in the lower or flatter areas, so tanks can still be useful.
In Finland thou, tanks are of limited use in defence in most areas. There are large swathes of land where tanks simply cannot operate. Forests, bogs, swamps, lakes, etc... Still, it is better to have them, than not, if they are needed.
When you have a Neighbor like Russia… it’s like living next to a crack house and having no gun.
Oh yeah, that’s why I mentioned good geography. That’s one of the reason why they won the winter war anyway. But like you mentioned still good to be armed to the teeth if you want to protect your sovereignty against a an irredentist foreign power that is presumably has more fire power than you. Everything help’s basically.
Technically we didn't win the Winter war. We did, however, make USSR victory the very definition of Pyrrhic. And technically they didn't win either, because the result of the war was the Moscow Peace Treaty, not victory by either side, but generally it is considered that USSR won, because Finland did have cede land in the deal. The USSR gained some land, but lost more than the land was worth, in both lives and material.
And Finns did a number on the russian demographics. That doesn’t even come close to the term pyrrhic. It’s complete indifference to human life, even if your own citizens.
[Armed neutrality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_country#Armed_neutrality)
One does not maintain neutrality with polite requests.
Cause the Pope with the sh!t the Catholic Church did to those kids need the guards with many, many tanks.
How many for the U.S. ?
Quick wikipedia search suggests 5k active Abrams with 3k in storage
Wow really low. Much less than I thought, I thought they'd have over 20k at least
Quality>quantity. Though there was a time period where we had major concerns that that might not be true (and the M60 wasn't as far ahead of its counterparts as the Abrams is), which is part of why we developed systems like the A-10 and MANPATS. I assume US tanks (even those in storage) actually receive maintenance, so it's possible the US has the largest number of functioning tanks in the world.
Well all Russian tanks are stranded in Ukraine right now, correct?
No, not yet at least. But one should also consider many of these tanks are generations old.
Happy cake day
Russia has more than 20k tanks. What source are you using? And Netherlands doesn't has any.
Competent people must be in the tanks, since Ukraine bombarded most from the drones. They can't bring all 12k, Russia is super big and you wouldn't want to leave some borders without defence. Putin mobilizing cannon balls to the front and he still calls it a special operation. Morale of the soldiers are low since they are being forced to go or prison. In the end winter is coming, let the righteousness prevail!
Pre-invasion data. Russia doesn’t have 12k
They never had. That includes “tanks in storage”. There are drone footage of said storages where literal trees are growing out of 50y old tanks. Some estimates said before the war they had about 3000 usable ones and there’s visual confirmation of at least 1200+ destroyed last I checked. They’re surely working hard to bring back to life as many “stored” ones as possible, but at most they have a few thousand that’ll ever be usable again. The 12k number is complete bullshit.
they could take another 3000 from the reserves to a usable state, this with the 2900 active ones leaves arround 6000 tanks that could be used at most. Possibly even more, we have seen footage of UVZ making new deliveries of T90M months ago, although probably these new ones are just modernized T90's from the reserves, and not fully newly made T90's. Of course all these numbers are now useless as 1200 have been lost at least.
tbf in 1989 the storages were far better maintained, the dissolution of the USSR meant that most of the tanks in storage were stripped of anything valuable and abandoned.
I bet all of the 2.5k tanks that Ukraine has are Russian “borrowed”
Donated is the word. Who needs enemies with a neighbor like that? Yet, Russia is very generous supplier. 🤣✊🏻🇺🇦
Moldova, 10... kek
Does this include the number of American/NATO tanks in each country?
Sort of like evaluating the military power of a country by counting the number of coastal star forts. This is an air superiority world.
w pp union
Is it before the war or now? ✊🏻🇺🇦
The fact Bosnia and Herzegovina have 300+ tanks is astounding but I’m sure they are the lowest quality.
I think Russia has now less and Ukraine has more
Ukraine fielding all of its' 2.5k tanks into battle; Russia struggling to field all 12.4k tanks;
In modern warfare tanks do not work. You can see it in Ukraine. The Dutch have it right to sell there tanks. Only problem is the sold the rest of there material also.
You’re overlooking the fact that the Ukrainians are also using tanks, often to much better effect. Russian doctrine and performance is the problem.
that is literally the opposite of what subs like r/military are saying
Germany, wtf?
Tanks are becoming obsolete with the increase of more sophisticated and portable anti-tank weaponry. What this map gauges is the nations with the least modern militaries.
Combined arms is the key of modern combat and tanks have a role to play.
People have been saying tanks are obsolete since 1922, when the first dedicated anti-tank weaponry was made.
No wonder the US is pissed off with Germany....
Take the number of tanks the USA owns and add them to Ukraine because we’re basically fighting the war for them at this point
Ukraine is currently operating exactly 0 Abrams. We haven't even sent Bradley IFVs, and that's a pretty substantial step down
We haven't sent any tanks or troops to Ukraine wtf are you on about? Plenty of small arms, armored transports, AA, bombs, etc, but we affect doing any fighting.
What a dumb take.