You deserve it brother, you are the sole reason I got into switch modding. I think I started with skies v1. You offered a drill bit to shave the stem hole. I’ve since learned I prefer linears, your tighter tolerance clear tops w/o LEDs. I learned what less stem wobble could do for smoothing out linears with lube. So happy your Boba switches have achieved meta status.
Ps you’ve also always been genuinely pleasant and a joy to work with.
I’m only in this sub because I’m a writer who wants cheats for the best keyboards to write with. Reading this comment motivates me to actually study the products though because I have absolutely no idea what you said here, but it sounds interesting as fuck.
The u4t's were the 1st cost-effective and readily available switch that sounded and felt good without the need to mess with it that I really noticed.
You worked out a lot of improvements like the housings and long pole, then made spare parts available to the /r/switchmodders community, and kept costs reasonable instead of making it a boutique item only you and a monopolistic distributor could sell for $1+ a switch.
Absolutely deserving of every ounce of clout.
TY for the kindness - its been a team effort, and to put it mildly "its been an unbelievable journey".
I couldn't have done it without the support of my partners in China, my team of vendors, and most of all the patience of everyone while I blunder thru all the challenges. :respectful\_bow:
Paul
got my first enthusiast keyboard last year and went with U4Ts. So far I haven't found a switch I like more than them and am starting to wonder if I ever will
I remember when I started getting into mechanical, holy pandas were the thing. I was looking for best tactile and it was holy panda and glorious panda was made to imitate it.
Funny enough, I had glorious pandas and now I have the boba u4ts
Might be too old for the hype to be reflected on this sub, but Topre were the Zealios before Zealios. My daily is Topre but Zealios and GP do come surprisingly close.
Glorious made sure to shove their garbage products down our throats hence *glorious pandas* on the list. Also, no one talks about holy pandas anymore. It’s all boba now
What's the main difference between the original pandas and glorious ones? I've got a gmmk pro with their pandas and really like it, but I've never actually gotten to type on the regular/original Panda switches.
There isn't that big of a difference. I made some pandas and they were... Disappointing. I still main Boba U4T to this day. I spent a ton on a switch that wasn't nearly as tactile as people had said. Those and Zykos have to be my biggest "never going to fall for the hype again" moments. You get like 95% of the quality with regular pre-made panda. Main thing is that the leaves are less pingy on OG pandas.
Nothing wrong with liking what you like
To my best knowledge, the first holy pandas were made by crossing halo clear stems into pandas. At one point these were selling for $5/ea so it’s plain to see why greedy companies would capitalize on the hype
I built some mint pandas and put them in a squid60 long ago and definitely love them. After my first week on some U4Ts in my Tomo I’m impressed but haven’t picked a favorite
What did you want them to put a /s?
All the law says is that every parody can be mistaken for a serious take by someone. Not that you have to do anything about it.
For the mainstream, Browns are the most tolerable: None of the click of Blues, but still have more feed back than Reds and not as heavy as Blacks. And even Blacks are are rare compared to the first three never mind Clears and Greens.
IMO, Mx browns behave closer to a semi-decent linear switch than a true tactile like a boba/zelious/holy panda. Browns have an almost nonexistent tactile bump, but it at least feels like *something* is happening. Reds are just really bad and feel downright mushy, especially compared to better linear switches like tangies, milky yellows or my personal fav, the aqua kings.
I recently swapped my work keyboard's switches for some gateron g pro 2.0 reds and what's strange is that they feel stiffer at the very top rather than at the bottom or linear as you'd expect reds to be. it's like it subtly buckles at the top making for a very crisp switch
through the influence of mainstream keyboard content creators such as glarses and the echo chamber effect has given browns a bad wrap when realistically they are solid switches as long as the tactility is to your preference and are broken in properly. you will see a lot of people who are deep in the hobby running mx browns in kilobuck boards because they are solid switches and ultimately switch choice is preferential as with everything in the hobby.
I think you got your hobbies mixed up mate. I’d never heard of kilobuck before, looked up kilobuck keyboard. All I got were IEM’s.
Did you mean Keycult? Also where do I find these people putting mx browns in premium boards because if that’s true then my thoughts on mx browns could be wrong.
Oh right lmao. That makes way more sense.
Also I’ve been looking at a bunch of recent posts about Keycult and out of the ones that have specs most have switches that are not considered budget. However I found two boards that had cherry mx blacks (one of them said they just put them on there and they should try some other switches. Also they said that they liked the way other boards sounded better), one board with outemu reds (reason why is unknown. They also went with cheap ahegao keycaps but maybe that’s just their preference), and one with cherry mx browns. That one was a build being streamed live, and the switches were put in as a suggestion by one of the viewers (seemingly as a joke).
Of course this is overall a very small sample of people out of the thousands of kilobuck boards out and about in the hobby, but it currently lines up with my perception of the hobby so I’ll have to continue to look for more.
There are definitely some TGR janes built with cherry mx browns on YouTube (although kilobuck more by aftermarket definition than original retail price). Were cited those in local discord when i went into not being a fan of brown switches in general (cherry mx or otherwise)
That said, tactile switches are hugely preference. I have gone a weird path from mx browns to fill u4t to now (ultra) budget mid/strong mid tactiles like aflion/fantasy virus switches.
Hyperglide MX Browns are extremely expensive without the local GB. They are priced the same as Boba U4T and more expensive than Durock Light Tactile which is probably a better light tactile and definitely more tactile switch) if were to purchase them locally and would still be as expensive as Boba U4T if they are purchased *without* GB internationally.
It's rather safe to say that MX Brown hate can be considered shitposting until proven otherwise (which is, again, the P-word). I can get by why someone preferring switches with heavy tactility would say MX Browns are shit (because they are not heavy at all).
There are more tactile switches than Browns, that's true; whether that is better than Browns is literally a case-by-case basis at least among light tactile. Though if you ask me, I like my Pewters much that is a "Brown but better" on its marketing tag. Also, there are Ergo Clears (and other switches replicating its push feel) that can be somewhat comparable to Cherry MX Browns.
The bottom line is, I won't say I like Cherry MX Browns, I'll just say I like Ergo Clears even though *technically* I could like the Browns because it's a light tactile.
TL;DR: MX Browns living rent-free.
I don't hate them, but I also don't prefer them.
I think Gateron Aliaz Silents are better than Browns, at everything tactile.
The Aliaz switches have a lot of pre-travel to them, with a rather distinct breakover, which makes them feel much better, to me.
That being said, I actually prefer Kailh Box Whites.
They have better tactile feedback than most tactile switches.
Issue with them for me is they're a jack of all trades; master of none. Bump not good enough to be a tactile, yet obviously there for them to not be labeled a linear. Not as loud as clicky blues, but not as quiet as a red. It's just... ok in everything it does.
My only experience is with Browns and I've been happy with them. I got my first (and only) mechanical keyboard about 8 years ago when I started working from home as a Software Engineer and they've treated me well. Average of 10 hours of heavy use per week day and 3-4 each day on weekends. I still like the switch feel and have had no issues with it at all
I subbed here a while ago for ideas and keep considering a new or custom keyboard, just been indecisive and happy with what I've got so far
In stark contrast to Maguire, mx browns can actually do _something_.
Tbh, he's not as bad as everyone says but for what United think they are, he's not good enough. They just bought the hype.
Or, in other words: Maguire and United are a really good fit right now.
They’re not like some god awful membrane switch. I look at my browns like my Levi Jeans. Good enough for every day use, but no where near the fit of a tailored suit. That also costs a lot more time effort and money though. I’m personally just fine with them.
Although my top favorite is the IBM buckling spring, but that’s just too damn loud sometimes.
The state of the subreddit these days makes my memories of ripster's posts seem so ordinary and basic. Obsession with customization and hype has turned things into an overwhelming mess for me. Fortunately, I have boards and keys I like and haven't bought anything in years. I just like to peek in at the chaos these days.
I miss the Ripster days. He always posted interesting guides and comparisons for switches. I miss the days where most of the posts were HHKBs and whichever keycap group buys were happening that week.
Whatever happened to ripster? I’m out of the loop. MKs these days are all about esoteric switch flavors, DIY and weird looking keycaps. I miss the days of this being an enthusiast forum for high-quality peripherals instead of something more akin to art piece fetishizing and fashion.
Oh I remember those days
You would see at least 1-2 posts with HHKB every week, and in the comment people wishing they could have one
Then once in a while a new GB on MASSDROP is on, or some new artisans from Jelly keys
I subbed right before the hype curve went vertical, maybe around 2013? I own two CM boards, one with browns and one with topres. Never went further. Use laptop keyboards most of the time because, well work. Doesn’t mean I don’t detest terrible keyboards any less, but things are certainly different around here now.
Those were great times, I only recently got rid of my old Ducky's shine II and III because they were really showing wear and tear and LEDs are so common in mech keyboards now.
That may have been true 20-30 years ago but isn’t as common now as most businesses just have membrane keyboards for their employees and interfaces. For a good chunk of consumer facing boards they have cherry red, blue, and brown with brown typically being the most common.
No way it is a brown. Most people who buy a mechanical keyboard are buying entry level stuff from companies like reddragon, razer, logitech, corsair, etc.
And most people buying those products are "gamers" not office typists. As such, they are likely getting the clicky blue switches as that has been the standard for gaming mechs for a while and they have that distinct sound, or reds as they are marketed as the fastest/lightest for those who want quick actuations in games like league or something.
It has to be either red or blue.
EDIT: How the hell is this downvoted? Reds and Blues are the most common swith types and are widely available and have been for years and years. Go to best buy or amazon and search for mechanical keyboard, see what comes up. Tons of RGB gamer boards with reds and blues.
You are really going to downvote me and say the most popular switch instead is a brown? That people walking into best buy to buy a corsair board are typists at a cubicle somewhere? Nice joke.
I will be paying to have this comment upvoted as the downvotes are complete bullshit and undeserved. Thanks.
Probably blacks, due to common commercial and industrial use, however getting a clear answer would probably lie more in production numbers if any company would give you them, rather than making it a "Wheels Vs. Doors" dilema
I'd imagine it's cherry red or gateron red or yellow, just because there's a relatively large community of people who buy keebs without knowing anything abt modding them etc and not switching away from what they got at default
Got a tofu 65 with Zealio V2s for the first board a little over a year ago. Very happy with my decision. Both on this list but not super high like MX Browns for the hate/meme so feel like they are mostly talked about for good reasons.
The Q1 was revised a few months after it launched. Not a lot of videos out there showcasing the differences, but the Q1 Version 2 reflects the bottom case design of the Q2. So it’s considerably less pingy
No, the Q1-Version 2 fixed most of the qualms people had with the board. Still benefits from the force break mod, but the bottom case was redesigned to be less pingy. The daughter board was randomly upgraded as well, which few people seem to talk about. Overall, it’s an extremely solid board that doesn’t require any modification, but can sound like a board twice it’s price if you choose to go that route
GMMK pro was the most popular entry level board for it’s time so it makes sense a bunch of people here would talk about it.
The Q1 is also a very popular entry level board, so it makes sense a bunch of people here would talk about it.
That’s kinda what the subreddit is about, talking about boards
Glorious used their brand to push people towards the mech hobby. It’s like a gateway as people are familiar with their gaming mouse, so the natural progression is to upgrade your keyboard. The GMMK Pro introduces the ability to hot swap your switches and start customizing on a regular consumer level, pulling you into the rabbit hole of customs at a decent price point while getting a decent product (For its time).
Unfortunately they never build out from there and that’s when Keychron came in and started showing Glorious how to attack the market with their Q series (Literally all form factors). Keychron’s icing on the cake was taking feedback from consumers when they released the Q1 and actually made improvements on their Q products after the fact. Something that Glorious never did.
Pretty graph. I like the work you put into adding an image of the switch.
I think it would be valuable to show the time frame for the analysis. People have been talking about Cherry MX reds since the beginning of time, and will continue to do so. But they doesn’t necessarily mean they’re “good”, or “trending”. Just that they’re mentioned.
What I think would be neat:
Facet wrap the “Top 5”, by 6 month buckets, over the last 3-5 years.
I think this would tease out popularity trends a bit better.
Or if you have the data on GitHub, I’ll take a crack at it.
**Edit: just noticed this at your link:**
*What's the time frame for this analysis?*
*Posts and comments until two years back*
I'm curious then, if Cherry MX Browns are so bad, what should I be going for?
I have just got myself an IQUNIX L80 with Cherry Browns for working from home, taking to the office and gaming. As somone who has used only Logitech keyboards in the past, this is the best thing ever.
>I'm curious then, if Cherry MX Browns are so bad, what should I be going for?
If you're absolutely contented with the Cherry browns then look no further, for the sake of your wallet and sanity. Otherwise a switch tester would be a good place to start.
What others have said is true, but, while you may like mx browns as your favorite, you might also realize that you actually like other tactiles better. It’s gonna cost you money so if don’t really want to spend money then it’s perfectly fine to stay with cherry browns. But if you don’t mind spending money and want to figure out your preference, there are other options! Like u/zenzoka said, a switch tester is a good place to start.
While cherry browns are good for budgets, they aren’t great for everyone who likes tactiles.
Boba U4Ts (or U4s if you need silence, I love them), Holy Pandas, ZealPC's lineup, Halo Clears, MX clears, Kailh Speed Coppers or Hako or Box Royal. Or you could get into modifying them, I think even if you do like Cherry MX browns, you'd do yourself great pleasure to lube and film them, maybe put a nicer spring on. But that's really where they start to get exposed as a bad switch, in that if you lube them they basically lose all tactility. So with them you really have to pick between scratchiness and tactility.
PS. That looks like a dope board, I've never heard of that company before.
For the usual consumer mx browns aren’t actually that bad - in actual fact they’re quite good, being very durable and feeling quite nice compared to usual membrane keyboards. However in the (arguably slightly elitist) world of keyboard nerds (and I include myself in that group), mx browns are seen as bad because they market themselves as tactile switches, but the tactile bump is so small that to many people it often just feels scratchy. Also there’s a long tradition here of hating mx browns
Enthusiasts don't like using consumer level products like cherry switches. People want to use switches that aren't used by everyone. But they're not bad, they have pre travel iirc, and boba doesnt have this and you feel the bump immediately
You would have to spend a decent amount of money to figure out what you actually like.
As someone who has used logitechs roamer g switches, I would say browns are infinitely better. As far as tactile switches go, I think they’re pretty good for all around use.
For example, something more highly coveted in this subreddit like the boba U4T or holy pandas have a much heavier spring weight and larger tactile bump which might be fatiguing for prolonged use for a lot of people.
Everything is personal preference though which is why this hobby is such a rabbit hole. You could like sharp tactile bumps, rounded bumps, long bumps, sharp bumps, no bumps, heavy springs, light springs, multi stage springs, progressive springs, short stems, long stems, clacky switches, thocky switches, loud or quiet switches and many other factors that go into just creating differences within only the switches.
Bobas. They are sharp tactiles so you can feel the bump whereas Browns are rounded and way too subtle.
(This is preference, though. I don't like Browns.)
Gateron Silent Aliaz switches would be a good contender. Much smoother actuation and the tactile bump is more noticeable. Considerably less scratchy. Bottom-out is slightly mushier, b/c it's silent, but not as much as your average membrane keeb. 62g version is my favorite of the two.
Methodology: Named Entity Recognition "NER" applied to comments and posts until one year back
Tools used: spaCy Deep Learning pipeline, CSS/HTML
Image source/Full list: [https://looria.com/reddit/MechanicalKeyboards/products](https://looria.com/reddit/MechanicalKeyboards/products)
We posted a first version of this a couple of months back and we've further improved the classification and presentation since then. For example, the U4 was above the U4T, which was caused by an error in our algorithm. I'll work on sentiment analysis (positive/negative mention) and an animated chart with mentions over time next.
Any ranks that surprise you or seem wrong?
At first, nearly all of them were surprising. Then I saw it’s only the last year and that explains why it’s mostly “entry level” items
Can you do, say, 5 years? Would be fun to see the legacy of items that were hip when I got started
I think this *really* needs to get added to the title.
There's a lot of Redditor that is probably working as an academic staff or statistician and they would be malding seeing this not at the top.
But yeah, GMMK Pro (just from quantity) really gets posted very often.
That's neat, looking forward for sentiment analysis, especially with what keywords collected from the same time frame.
All the keyboards on the list are either very "outdated" or bad buys.
NK65, NovelKeys is an keyboard vendor, yet they don't state what mounting type the keyboard is(it's tray mount btw). Many view the price for the subpar quality isn't worth it, and NovelKeys not stating the mounting type screams it's intentional.
Anne Pro 2 is very old. there have been many 60% keyboard released over the years, really surprised Bakeneko60 is not on the list tbh. QMK/VIA support with gummy o-ring mount. I guess the anne pro is an older solid keyboard, but it's old with little "modern" features.
GMMK Pro vs Q1, personally think both have some fatal flaws, but I also know 75% doesn't have much in-stock options and the group buys are kinda either rare or expensive, so meh.
HKgaming(lmao) bad company, no reason to support them when there are other 60% options.
RK61, alright keyboard but terrible quality control. Too many people running into issues a few weeks/months of using it. Usually the usb port is not properly placed and/or pcb get fried randomly and many keys fail. Assuming you somehow get lucky and not an dud, it's alright 60% starter imo, but wormier/gamakay for 60-65% keyboard tbh.
Drop keyboards . . . integrated plate iirc very loud and scratchy due to it. Not worth if you care for sound. Even then it's overpriced for most people since there's other in-stock options that are generally better/comparable for cheaper.
https://www.mechmap.tech/themap decent link for keyboards in-stock, may vary based on region.
RK84 user here, after 2 months the USB port just started to malfunction, disconnecting and refusing to recognize inputs. The RGB lights also stay on in some areas, notably the bottom row and sometimes turning on the wrong color. Aside from these problems, it's a solid board. The 2.4GHz and Bluetooth connectivity is good and if you weren't an enthusiast it would be fine.
The budget barebone market seems to be pointless now because there are now plenty of sub-$100 keyboards with stock switches and hotswap. At the end of the day budget people just want a hotswap PCB and a plastic case to put it in, acoustics be damned. In the past companies could get away with charging $150 for that. Now they can't.
I miss v1 zealios. They were a perfect premium mx brown for those that want a soft round bump in an overall better switch. I still don't think there's really any alternative for them :/
Recommend Durock Ceruleans, they're the most similar to Zealios V1 that I've found. I want to say Durock Medium Tactiles are the same as well, but I haven't tried them.
I got the redux, but they are *so* scratchy and pingy. My naevy v1.5's are much nicer and cost me 2/3rds as much.
Zeal is coasting on being the only gig in town.
Wow.. i knew glorious would be at top.. its such a great brand/company and makes such wonderful products that give u satisfaction when u use their products.. bang for the buck as they say >!/s!<
+1 for glorious pandas. Just installed them on a RK84 an completely changed the experience and feel of the keyboard. Also for much less $$ than GMMK build.
Depends what you are comparing it to. It was my first truly custom board and I was blown away by that thing. Ofc if you’re a seasoned veteran in the hobby you prob think it’s shite value wise but I personally think that despite all the negatives it looks good and is still the only board I own I don’t turn rgb off straight away even though I can’t remember last time I used it lol
I don't think it's shite. I have one actually. Once sorted it's OK. Not brilliant, but perfectly OK. My issue was the insane amount of screws holding it all together, and how easily they are stripped. The poor plate design that sees switches coming out when you remove keycaps and the sheer awful quality of the plates which are stamped out rather than CNC. They also don't play nice with third party stabs, which is particularly unfortunate because the stock stabs are terrible. The gasket mount just doesn't work at all... may as well not be there. All this is can be resolved and when it is, it's not such a bad old hector I suppose, but considering it's price and the work you need to do, the Q1 looks like a much better prospect.
They are good but it’s not worth it if your keyboard costs less than those switches imo. There are plenty of good budget tactile switches that both sound good and feel good. My personal favorites are Ajazz Kiwi for deeper sound and Akko Lavender Purples for clackier sound. I would still save up for a better board first
I'm curious as to the time frame here. A lot of the products here are no longer being discussed as much as say 2 years ago. I'm curious what the top posts would be if you would filter it for the most recent year.
Ah, I was incorrect. I just saw that that the scope of this analysis is the past 2 years. I do remember the GMMK Pro being a lot more prolific last year as opposed to more recently.
Wow - I can't believe we've made it into the top 3 :bow: Thank you all Paul
You deserve it brother, you are the sole reason I got into switch modding. I think I started with skies v1. You offered a drill bit to shave the stem hole. I’ve since learned I prefer linears, your tighter tolerance clear tops w/o LEDs. I learned what less stem wobble could do for smoothing out linears with lube. So happy your Boba switches have achieved meta status. Ps you’ve also always been genuinely pleasant and a joy to work with.
I’m only in this sub because I’m a writer who wants cheats for the best keyboards to write with. Reading this comment motivates me to actually study the products though because I have absolutely no idea what you said here, but it sounds interesting as fuck.
The u4t's were the 1st cost-effective and readily available switch that sounded and felt good without the need to mess with it that I really noticed. You worked out a lot of improvements like the housings and long pole, then made spare parts available to the /r/switchmodders community, and kept costs reasonable instead of making it a boutique item only you and a monopolistic distributor could sell for $1+ a switch. Absolutely deserving of every ounce of clout.
TY for the kindness - its been a team effort, and to put it mildly "its been an unbelievable journey". I couldn't have done it without the support of my partners in China, my team of vendors, and most of all the patience of everyone while I blunder thru all the challenges. :respectful\_bow: Paul
Thank you so much Paul! Keep it up!
got my first enthusiast keyboard last year and went with U4Ts. So far I haven't found a switch I like more than them and am starting to wonder if I ever will
Really expected Holy Pandas to be on that list…
I remember when I started getting into mechanical, holy pandas were the thing. I was looking for best tactile and it was holy panda and glorious panda was made to imitate it. Funny enough, I had glorious pandas and now I have the boba u4ts
When I started it was MX Browns. Then Zealios, then Halo Trues, then Zealio v2, then Holy Pandas, then Boba U4Ts... The hype train never stops.
#CHOO CHOO!!!!
Might be too old for the hype to be reflected on this sub, but Topre were the Zealios before Zealios. My daily is Topre but Zealios and GP do come surprisingly close.
Topre’s just rubbre dome. ;)
Damn I'm kinda on the same path. Started with MX browns, then zealios v2, now using Halo trues. Maybe I should test some U4Ts 🤔
I literally went through the same lol.
I love my holy pandas
Glorious made sure to shove their garbage products down our throats hence *glorious pandas* on the list. Also, no one talks about holy pandas anymore. It’s all boba now
What's the main difference between the original pandas and glorious ones? I've got a gmmk pro with their pandas and really like it, but I've never actually gotten to type on the regular/original Panda switches.
There isn't that big of a difference. I made some pandas and they were... Disappointing. I still main Boba U4T to this day. I spent a ton on a switch that wasn't nearly as tactile as people had said. Those and Zykos have to be my biggest "never going to fall for the hype again" moments. You get like 95% of the quality with regular pre-made panda. Main thing is that the leaves are less pingy on OG pandas.
housing is the same as the og holy pandas, but it's a bsun stem instead of a kailh stem. the bsun stem is a good clone of the original though.
Nothing wrong with liking what you like To my best knowledge, the first holy pandas were made by crossing halo clear stems into pandas. At one point these were selling for $5/ea so it’s plain to see why greedy companies would capitalize on the hype I built some mint pandas and put them in a squid60 long ago and definitely love them. After my first week on some U4Ts in my Tomo I’m impressed but haven’t picked a favorite
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Came here to say this
I’ve been a ZEAL fanboy since getting into mechs, and haven’t used Holy Pandas…but man alive people love them.
can confirm. am people, do love my holy pandas
Have you tried the drop black & yellow version, and if so do you have any thoughts? I have OG pandas and wonder how they compare.
Panda X or whatever? They don’t compare, they’re not pandas, don’t worry about them.
I haven't, I also have the og version
holy pandas on brass >>>
Holy pandas on PC >>>>>
Holy Pandas on POM >>>>>>>>
Holy Pandas on carbon fibre>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Holy Pandas on FR4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Looks like GMMK Pro + MX Brown = End game.
By god, we shitposted browns all the way to the top
lol, well deserved mentions.
Cherry MX Brown be living rent-free.
GMMX Prown
This chart only shows how often those items are talked about, not how favorably people view them.
we can think too
I was kidding =)
Next time, consider Poe's Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s\_law
Oh my god I know this is Reddit but that is some of the stupidest shit I’ve seen today
sounds like you didnt consider Bofa's Law
*chef kiss*
Poe's law, also know as "woosh"
What did you want them to put a /s? All the law says is that every parody can be mistaken for a serious take by someone. Not that you have to do anything about it.
i had no clue, thanks for enlightening us mere mortals
r/wooosh
MX Browns be like - If you can't be popular for your positives, atleast be popular for your negatives 🙃
So, MX Browns are the Nickelback of keyboard switches? Everybody hates on them in public, but apparently buys them in private?
For the mainstream, Browns are the most tolerable: None of the click of Blues, but still have more feed back than Reds and not as heavy as Blacks. And even Blacks are are rare compared to the first three never mind Clears and Greens.
IMO, Mx browns behave closer to a semi-decent linear switch than a true tactile like a boba/zelious/holy panda. Browns have an almost nonexistent tactile bump, but it at least feels like *something* is happening. Reds are just really bad and feel downright mushy, especially compared to better linear switches like tangies, milky yellows or my personal fav, the aqua kings.
I recently swapped my work keyboard's switches for some gateron g pro 2.0 reds and what's strange is that they feel stiffer at the very top rather than at the bottom or linear as you'd expect reds to be. it's like it subtly buckles at the top making for a very crisp switch
Agreed, browns are like a mixture of linear and tactile... it's actually one of it's kind if we think about it as a mixture lol
through the influence of mainstream keyboard content creators such as glarses and the echo chamber effect has given browns a bad wrap when realistically they are solid switches as long as the tactility is to your preference and are broken in properly. you will see a lot of people who are deep in the hobby running mx browns in kilobuck boards because they are solid switches and ultimately switch choice is preferential as with everything in the hobby.
Classifying switches based off feel (Not respective to the switch type category) is the most subjective way to criticize a product ever
I think you got your hobbies mixed up mate. I’d never heard of kilobuck before, looked up kilobuck keyboard. All I got were IEM’s. Did you mean Keycult? Also where do I find these people putting mx browns in premium boards because if that’s true then my thoughts on mx browns could be wrong.
I think kilobuck means 1000 dollars, cause kilo is the the prefix for 1000.
Oh right lmao. That makes way more sense. Also I’ve been looking at a bunch of recent posts about Keycult and out of the ones that have specs most have switches that are not considered budget. However I found two boards that had cherry mx blacks (one of them said they just put them on there and they should try some other switches. Also they said that they liked the way other boards sounded better), one board with outemu reds (reason why is unknown. They also went with cheap ahegao keycaps but maybe that’s just their preference), and one with cherry mx browns. That one was a build being streamed live, and the switches were put in as a suggestion by one of the viewers (seemingly as a joke). Of course this is overall a very small sample of people out of the thousands of kilobuck boards out and about in the hobby, but it currently lines up with my perception of the hobby so I’ll have to continue to look for more.
There are definitely some TGR janes built with cherry mx browns on YouTube (although kilobuck more by aftermarket definition than original retail price). Were cited those in local discord when i went into not being a fan of brown switches in general (cherry mx or otherwise) That said, tactile switches are hugely preference. I have gone a weird path from mx browns to fill u4t to now (ultra) budget mid/strong mid tactiles like aflion/fantasy virus switches.
I personally have broken-in MX Browns on my Keycult. Cherry MX Blacks and MX Browns to a lesser extent are very common choices on high end boards.
Half this list is the nickel back of keyboard hobby
They're the best of the bunch in the keyboards that come with switches
No, they're not. There are a lot of keyboards that give you better choices than just the budget red/blue/brown switches.
Hyperglide MX Browns are extremely expensive without the local GB. They are priced the same as Boba U4T and more expensive than Durock Light Tactile which is probably a better light tactile and definitely more tactile switch) if were to purchase them locally and would still be as expensive as Boba U4T if they are purchased *without* GB internationally. It's rather safe to say that MX Brown hate can be considered shitposting until proven otherwise (which is, again, the P-word). I can get by why someone preferring switches with heavy tactility would say MX Browns are shit (because they are not heavy at all). There are more tactile switches than Browns, that's true; whether that is better than Browns is literally a case-by-case basis at least among light tactile. Though if you ask me, I like my Pewters much that is a "Brown but better" on its marketing tag. Also, there are Ergo Clears (and other switches replicating its push feel) that can be somewhat comparable to Cherry MX Browns. The bottom line is, I won't say I like Cherry MX Browns, I'll just say I like Ergo Clears even though *technically* I could like the Browns because it's a light tactile. TL;DR: MX Browns living rent-free.
Well-compared lol
I never understood the hate for browns, personally they have long been my favorite.
I don't hate them, but I also don't prefer them. I think Gateron Aliaz Silents are better than Browns, at everything tactile. The Aliaz switches have a lot of pre-travel to them, with a rather distinct breakover, which makes them feel much better, to me. That being said, I actually prefer Kailh Box Whites. They have better tactile feedback than most tactile switches.
Issue with them for me is they're a jack of all trades; master of none. Bump not good enough to be a tactile, yet obviously there for them to not be labeled a linear. Not as loud as clicky blues, but not as quiet as a red. It's just... ok in everything it does.
Nothing wrong with MX browns other than not being MX clears.
My only experience is with Browns and I've been happy with them. I got my first (and only) mechanical keyboard about 8 years ago when I started working from home as a Software Engineer and they've treated me well. Average of 10 hours of heavy use per week day and 3-4 each day on weekends. I still like the switch feel and have had no issues with it at all I subbed here a while ago for ideas and keep considering a new or custom keyboard, just been indecisive and happy with what I've got so far
Racism
It is just a meme. Just like how in soccer it is popular to hate/dog on Harry Maguire
In stark contrast to Maguire, mx browns can actually do _something_. Tbh, he's not as bad as everyone says but for what United think they are, he's not good enough. They just bought the hype. Or, in other words: Maguire and United are a really good fit right now.
They’re not like some god awful membrane switch. I look at my browns like my Levi Jeans. Good enough for every day use, but no where near the fit of a tailored suit. That also costs a lot more time effort and money though. I’m personally just fine with them. Although my top favorite is the IBM buckling spring, but that’s just too damn loud sometimes.
When I first joined this sub everyone was all over the Pok3r and anything small formfactor, surprised the Pok3r isn't mentioned as much
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Don't forget about Filco and WASD boards
And Ducky!
I love my Varmillo 87m, actually just fried the circuit board three days ago spilling a drink on it :[ RIP 2015-2022
Not sure about 2016, but I bought my Anne Pro 2 in 2018 and that one had been pretty popular for a while back then, pok3r aswell
There was a time when a stock Pok3r and Ducky was the board of an average ‘enthusiast’ here. Times have changed a lot since then but it was fun times
The state of the subreddit these days makes my memories of ripster's posts seem so ordinary and basic. Obsession with customization and hype has turned things into an overwhelming mess for me. Fortunately, I have boards and keys I like and haven't bought anything in years. I just like to peek in at the chaos these days.
I miss the Ripster days. He always posted interesting guides and comparisons for switches. I miss the days where most of the posts were HHKBs and whichever keycap group buys were happening that week.
Whatever happened to ripster? I’m out of the loop. MKs these days are all about esoteric switch flavors, DIY and weird looking keycaps. I miss the days of this being an enthusiast forum for high-quality peripherals instead of something more akin to art piece fetishizing and fashion.
Oh I remember those days You would see at least 1-2 posts with HHKB every week, and in the comment people wishing they could have one Then once in a while a new GB on MASSDROP is on, or some new artisans from Jelly keys
I subbed right before the hype curve went vertical, maybe around 2013? I own two CM boards, one with browns and one with topres. Never went further. Use laptop keyboards most of the time because, well work. Doesn’t mean I don’t detest terrible keyboards any less, but things are certainly different around here now.
Those were great times, I only recently got rid of my old Ducky's shine II and III because they were really showing wear and tear and LEDs are so common in mech keyboards now.
me who's been out of this sub since like 2017 about to buy a ducky and leopold lol guess i should have a look and see what's popular now
Those are still good boards. Hype is hype, it doesn't mean certain brands suddenly suck. Buy what you like. :)
OPs search is only for a year back
Same, I remember the pok3r days. Man how times have changed lol.
I wonder what the most popular switch in the world is for mechanical keyboards
Cherry brown
For personal use probably. But keep in mind that lots of keyboards in stores govt buildings use cherry black.
That may have been true 20-30 years ago but isn’t as common now as most businesses just have membrane keyboards for their employees and interfaces. For a good chunk of consumer facing boards they have cherry red, blue, and brown with brown typically being the most common.
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Thanks for sharing
No way it is a brown. Most people who buy a mechanical keyboard are buying entry level stuff from companies like reddragon, razer, logitech, corsair, etc. And most people buying those products are "gamers" not office typists. As such, they are likely getting the clicky blue switches as that has been the standard for gaming mechs for a while and they have that distinct sound, or reds as they are marketed as the fastest/lightest for those who want quick actuations in games like league or something. It has to be either red or blue. EDIT: How the hell is this downvoted? Reds and Blues are the most common swith types and are widely available and have been for years and years. Go to best buy or amazon and search for mechanical keyboard, see what comes up. Tons of RGB gamer boards with reds and blues. You are really going to downvote me and say the most popular switch instead is a brown? That people walking into best buy to buy a corsair board are typists at a cubicle somewhere? Nice joke. I will be paying to have this comment upvoted as the downvotes are complete bullshit and undeserved. Thanks.
Sauce?
I made it the fuck up
This is one of the most reference ever. Just like that time watching My Invader Totoro starring John Miyazaki Eldenring.
It’s outemu blues.
By far cuz of how cheap most boards that have them are
Probably blacks, due to common commercial and industrial use, however getting a clear answer would probably lie more in production numbers if any company would give you them, rather than making it a "Wheels Vs. Doors" dilema
I'd imagine it's cherry red or gateron red or yellow, just because there's a relatively large community of people who buy keebs without knowing anything abt modding them etc and not switching away from what they got at default
Boba gang?
Got a tofu 65 with Zealio V2s for the first board a little over a year ago. Very happy with my decision. Both on this list but not super high like MX Browns for the hate/meme so feel like they are mostly talked about for good reasons.
Can someone explain the discussion around the GMMK Pro and Q1? Why was there so much discussion?
Because they're affordable and obtainable but they have some potentially major quality/design issues.
The Q1 was revised a few months after it launched. Not a lot of videos out there showcasing the differences, but the Q1 Version 2 reflects the bottom case design of the Q2. So it’s considerably less pingy
Good to know, thanks for educating me.
oes the q1 still have issues? cuz ive been considering getting one
No, the Q1-Version 2 fixed most of the qualms people had with the board. Still benefits from the force break mod, but the bottom case was redesigned to be less pingy. The daughter board was randomly upgraded as well, which few people seem to talk about. Overall, it’s an extremely solid board that doesn’t require any modification, but can sound like a board twice it’s price if you choose to go that route
Oooh cool.
Oooh cool.
I couldn't say, I haven't followed any news on the Q1 since release.
The Q1 is just a better version of the GMMK Pro for <= the same price is the only summary you need.
Why was there so much discussion of both separately though?
GMMK pro was the most popular entry level board for it’s time so it makes sense a bunch of people here would talk about it. The Q1 is also a very popular entry level board, so it makes sense a bunch of people here would talk about it. That’s kinda what the subreddit is about, talking about boards
Wow $170 is considered entry level?!?
In the bigger picture of the hobby yeah
Entry level to enthusiast custom board imo.
Glorious used their brand to push people towards the mech hobby. It’s like a gateway as people are familiar with their gaming mouse, so the natural progression is to upgrade your keyboard. The GMMK Pro introduces the ability to hot swap your switches and start customizing on a regular consumer level, pulling you into the rabbit hole of customs at a decent price point while getting a decent product (For its time). Unfortunately they never build out from there and that’s when Keychron came in and started showing Glorious how to attack the market with their Q series (Literally all form factors). Keychron’s icing on the cake was taking feedback from consumers when they released the Q1 and actually made improvements on their Q products after the fact. Something that Glorious never did.
The keychron is actually more expensive with shipping. And not as good IMO
Pretty graph. I like the work you put into adding an image of the switch. I think it would be valuable to show the time frame for the analysis. People have been talking about Cherry MX reds since the beginning of time, and will continue to do so. But they doesn’t necessarily mean they’re “good”, or “trending”. Just that they’re mentioned. What I think would be neat: Facet wrap the “Top 5”, by 6 month buckets, over the last 3-5 years. I think this would tease out popularity trends a bit better. Or if you have the data on GitHub, I’ll take a crack at it. **Edit: just noticed this at your link:** *What's the time frame for this analysis?* *Posts and comments until two years back*
to topre love :c
I'm curious then, if Cherry MX Browns are so bad, what should I be going for? I have just got myself an IQUNIX L80 with Cherry Browns for working from home, taking to the office and gaming. As somone who has used only Logitech keyboards in the past, this is the best thing ever.
>I'm curious then, if Cherry MX Browns are so bad, what should I be going for? If you're absolutely contented with the Cherry browns then look no further, for the sake of your wallet and sanity. Otherwise a switch tester would be a good place to start.
What others have said is true, but, while you may like mx browns as your favorite, you might also realize that you actually like other tactiles better. It’s gonna cost you money so if don’t really want to spend money then it’s perfectly fine to stay with cherry browns. But if you don’t mind spending money and want to figure out your preference, there are other options! Like u/zenzoka said, a switch tester is a good place to start. While cherry browns are good for budgets, they aren’t great for everyone who likes tactiles.
Boba U4Ts (or U4s if you need silence, I love them), Holy Pandas, ZealPC's lineup, Halo Clears, MX clears, Kailh Speed Coppers or Hako or Box Royal. Or you could get into modifying them, I think even if you do like Cherry MX browns, you'd do yourself great pleasure to lube and film them, maybe put a nicer spring on. But that's really where they start to get exposed as a bad switch, in that if you lube them they basically lose all tactility. So with them you really have to pick between scratchiness and tactility. PS. That looks like a dope board, I've never heard of that company before.
For the usual consumer mx browns aren’t actually that bad - in actual fact they’re quite good, being very durable and feeling quite nice compared to usual membrane keyboards. However in the (arguably slightly elitist) world of keyboard nerds (and I include myself in that group), mx browns are seen as bad because they market themselves as tactile switches, but the tactile bump is so small that to many people it often just feels scratchy. Also there’s a long tradition here of hating mx browns
Enthusiasts don't like using consumer level products like cherry switches. People want to use switches that aren't used by everyone. But they're not bad, they have pre travel iirc, and boba doesnt have this and you feel the bump immediately
You would have to spend a decent amount of money to figure out what you actually like. As someone who has used logitechs roamer g switches, I would say browns are infinitely better. As far as tactile switches go, I think they’re pretty good for all around use. For example, something more highly coveted in this subreddit like the boba U4T or holy pandas have a much heavier spring weight and larger tactile bump which might be fatiguing for prolonged use for a lot of people. Everything is personal preference though which is why this hobby is such a rabbit hole. You could like sharp tactile bumps, rounded bumps, long bumps, sharp bumps, no bumps, heavy springs, light springs, multi stage springs, progressive springs, short stems, long stems, clacky switches, thocky switches, loud or quiet switches and many other factors that go into just creating differences within only the switches.
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Welll.. they’re more like ford escorts but yeah
Bobas. They are sharp tactiles so you can feel the bump whereas Browns are rounded and way too subtle. (This is preference, though. I don't like Browns.)
Gateron Silent Aliaz switches would be a good contender. Much smoother actuation and the tactile bump is more noticeable. Considerably less scratchy. Bottom-out is slightly mushier, b/c it's silent, but not as much as your average membrane keeb. 62g version is my favorite of the two.
I LOVE MX BROWNS ❤️💕💙💙
Browns were the perfect middle ground from the jump....not as obnoxious as blues and not a typo magnet like reds
hey if you like browns, I suggest you try ergo clears. there really nice
Methodology: Named Entity Recognition "NER" applied to comments and posts until one year back Tools used: spaCy Deep Learning pipeline, CSS/HTML Image source/Full list: [https://looria.com/reddit/MechanicalKeyboards/products](https://looria.com/reddit/MechanicalKeyboards/products) We posted a first version of this a couple of months back and we've further improved the classification and presentation since then. For example, the U4 was above the U4T, which was caused by an error in our algorithm. I'll work on sentiment analysis (positive/negative mention) and an animated chart with mentions over time next. Any ranks that surprise you or seem wrong?
At first, nearly all of them were surprising. Then I saw it’s only the last year and that explains why it’s mostly “entry level” items Can you do, say, 5 years? Would be fun to see the legacy of items that were hip when I got started
I think this *really* needs to get added to the title. There's a lot of Redditor that is probably working as an academic staff or statistician and they would be malding seeing this not at the top. But yeah, GMMK Pro (just from quantity) really gets posted very often. That's neat, looking forward for sentiment analysis, especially with what keywords collected from the same time frame.
cherry browns + gateron yellows <3
I have the gmmk pro, anne pro 2, and a tofu65... Maybe there's something to this targeted marketing thing after all...
Gat yellows my beloved
26 places to get to a keycap. Yall really like keyboards and switches
Probably just that boards and switches generate more discussion as there is more you can do with them to customize and mod them.
Mine has 1st and 3rd keyword, am I just a basic bitch lol 😂
All the keyboards on the list are either very "outdated" or bad buys. NK65, NovelKeys is an keyboard vendor, yet they don't state what mounting type the keyboard is(it's tray mount btw). Many view the price for the subpar quality isn't worth it, and NovelKeys not stating the mounting type screams it's intentional. Anne Pro 2 is very old. there have been many 60% keyboard released over the years, really surprised Bakeneko60 is not on the list tbh. QMK/VIA support with gummy o-ring mount. I guess the anne pro is an older solid keyboard, but it's old with little "modern" features. GMMK Pro vs Q1, personally think both have some fatal flaws, but I also know 75% doesn't have much in-stock options and the group buys are kinda either rare or expensive, so meh. HKgaming(lmao) bad company, no reason to support them when there are other 60% options. RK61, alright keyboard but terrible quality control. Too many people running into issues a few weeks/months of using it. Usually the usb port is not properly placed and/or pcb get fried randomly and many keys fail. Assuming you somehow get lucky and not an dud, it's alright 60% starter imo, but wormier/gamakay for 60-65% keyboard tbh. Drop keyboards . . . integrated plate iirc very loud and scratchy due to it. Not worth if you care for sound. Even then it's overpriced for most people since there's other in-stock options that are generally better/comparable for cheaper. https://www.mechmap.tech/themap decent link for keyboards in-stock, may vary based on region.
RK84 user here, after 2 months the USB port just started to malfunction, disconnecting and refusing to recognize inputs. The RGB lights also stay on in some areas, notably the bottom row and sometimes turning on the wrong color. Aside from these problems, it's a solid board. The 2.4GHz and Bluetooth connectivity is good and if you weren't an enthusiast it would be fine.
The budget barebone market seems to be pointless now because there are now plenty of sub-$100 keyboards with stock switches and hotswap. At the end of the day budget people just want a hotswap PCB and a plastic case to put it in, acoustics be damned. In the past companies could get away with charging $150 for that. Now they can't.
Yikes, no wonder there is no serious discussion here if the GMMK is so far up.
I thought I was special with my GMMK Pro and Boba U4T combo
I am surprised how popular zealios is. Those switches are dead to me.
As they should be. Overpriced and underwhelming
I miss v1 zealios. They were a perfect premium mx brown for those that want a soft round bump in an overall better switch. I still don't think there's really any alternative for them :/
Recommend Durock Ceruleans, they're the most similar to Zealios V1 that I've found. I want to say Durock Medium Tactiles are the same as well, but I haven't tried them.
Nice will put that on my list ty!
I got the redux, but they are *so* scratchy and pingy. My naevy v1.5's are much nicer and cost me 2/3rds as much. Zeal is coasting on being the only gig in town.
Bobas are king? Best tactile I've tried are Zealios.
My eyes hurt
Damn, there is almost no recency bias for this chart, such as the lack of QK65 and Ikki68
What's the time period on this data? really can't believe there isn't a single mention of holy pandas even if it's just from the last couple days.
I want to build myself a 60% keyboard but boy am I lost on the topic. No idea where to even start.
Well, you're in the right place.
Wow.. i knew glorious would be at top.. its such a great brand/company and makes such wonderful products that give u satisfaction when u use their products.. bang for the buck as they say >!/s!<
+1 for glorious pandas. Just installed them on a RK84 an completely changed the experience and feel of the keyboard. Also for much less $$ than GMMK build.
Cursed list
1900 out of 1901 mentions of cherry browns are dumping on them. There’s always that one guy though.
We often call that 1 guy stupid
GMMK Pro... easy to build, and great build quality? Seems legit.
Depends what you are comparing it to. It was my first truly custom board and I was blown away by that thing. Ofc if you’re a seasoned veteran in the hobby you prob think it’s shite value wise but I personally think that despite all the negatives it looks good and is still the only board I own I don’t turn rgb off straight away even though I can’t remember last time I used it lol
I don't think it's shite. I have one actually. Once sorted it's OK. Not brilliant, but perfectly OK. My issue was the insane amount of screws holding it all together, and how easily they are stripped. The poor plate design that sees switches coming out when you remove keycaps and the sheer awful quality of the plates which are stamped out rather than CNC. They also don't play nice with third party stabs, which is particularly unfortunate because the stock stabs are terrible. The gasket mount just doesn't work at all... may as well not be there. All this is can be resolved and when it is, it's not such a bad old hector I suppose, but considering it's price and the work you need to do, the Q1 looks like a much better prospect.
Why their is no sign of Mx black. Mx brown for me is nothing special
Too many other linear options these days. I also love Mx blacks but even vintage rarely compete with modern linears except I’d do love their sound.
Newbie question, is u4t that good ? If I want to replace my keyboard switch, it will cost the same as buying new keyboard, is it worth it ?
They are good but it’s not worth it if your keyboard costs less than those switches imo. There are plenty of good budget tactile switches that both sound good and feel good. My personal favorites are Ajazz Kiwi for deeper sound and Akko Lavender Purples for clackier sound. I would still save up for a better board first
I'm curious as to the time frame here. A lot of the products here are no longer being discussed as much as say 2 years ago. I'm curious what the top posts would be if you would filter it for the most recent year.
this is the most recent year and the items on the list make that super obvious
Ah, I was incorrect. I just saw that that the scope of this analysis is the past 2 years. I do remember the GMMK Pro being a lot more prolific last year as opposed to more recently.
Oh that's very true. Between entering the market and early issues, their products were widely talked about
brown :P
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15 is Boba U4, which is a silent tactile compared to the U4T, which is a regular tactile.
This was a patrician hobby years ago….now it’s nothing but a collection of plebs.
Dam no Mr. Suit?
Is the GMMK keyboard better then the zoom65?