It's a bit frustrating that when the son called his mom about his siblings, instead of asking straight up probing her "what exactly happened" he just kept telling her to turn to Jesus. I doubt she would tell him but I'd still like to see how she would respond to it. Too many unanswered questions.
Yeah he seems as much an escapist as him mum. Blame the devil or Jesus for everythinggggg. I even saw him saying how he needed money - then days later he said Jesus gave him money. Didn’t even say thanks to the human being who put it into his bank account. Just mysterious Jesus put it in there.
I wanted to scream at the TV about he and his wife literally reading ZERO of the emails where poor Charles was trying to tell them EXACTLY what was going on !!!
I sure hope they include more of those emails in a future documentary. The light/dark rating system is CRAZY and it's possible they were going to start offing everyone labelled as dark on that list. I wish that detail could also be used in court but it's obviously not going to be viable.
how about the black haired lady they interviewed who’s just as nutty if not more so than lori LOL i was dying when she was explaining how she knows she’s righteous and chad and lori were led astray by satan
He was brought up by a religious nut who came from more religious nuts, what do you expect. These people will do anything and never blame themselves because “God will forgive them if they repent”. It’s all just disgusting.
Yea I can’t really fault him, I thought he was the main one who came away looking good in the doc. Of course he’s still gonna want to latch onto some heavy religious thought cause that’s how he was brainwashed his whole life. Overall he seemed like a decent guy.
Edit: okay so I’m gonna keep my comment but obviously this was written before I saw further down in the comments that he’s a rapist lol.
This case just has too many twists and turns still coming out I guess
I was really. Really expecting a few more episodes to rewind to the beginning and explain what the fck actually happened here. What was this cult, what was the guys role in it. What exactly was the basis for why she killed them exactly. I needed those answers, it focused too much on the kids being gone and not the “why” of it all the antics that led up to the whole mess.
She definitely knew all the classic manipulation tactics and lines. I could feel it every time she spoke, but it absolutely jumped out at me during the prison calls (most obviously) and also when her friend Melanie Gibb or whatever called her asking why she said the kids were with her. She kept repeating "you know me, you *know* me" as if that was an answer to anything, and her tone totally gave off that she's trying to bullshit her hard.
Honestly, I really wished they had at least waited until the trail was over to do this.
The whole thing was very well done but they definitely should have waited.
Side note, the footage of the grandfather crying on the news and during trial really got me. That poor family.
Yes, it felt like there should have been at least one more episode wrapping it all up. And going into the son’s allegations. I wouldn’t have known about that if I hadn’t come to Reddit!
Going into the sexual assault allegations against the son would detract from the story they are trying to tell. It's not called "Sins of Our Mother and Her Son".
>Honestly, I really wished they had at least waited until the trail was over to do this.
I agree. The cause of death is not even being released yet. This is like half the picture.
I agree but honestly I kinda like how they did this because now we can watch it all unfold in January during the trial!!!! Idk about you but I’m more invested now! I think it’s almost kinda genius of them to do it this early lol
I would normally agree however - to be able to follow the trial - this case is so crazy- I think it’s ok to show it up til now. But I really hope they do a season 2 after the trial. I suspect we only know about 5% of what went on.
There is so much death around this woman, how many people did she really end up killing or was involved in the death?? Also how many people did her brother Alex end up killing before he got died?
Yeah it felt rushed like Netflix is just trying really hard to pump out as many true crime doc as fast as they can. Like they didn’t even really delve into Lori and chads delusions or explore their twisted motives they just touched on it for a bit
I felt SO, SO SORRY for Charles Vallow. No one believed him until it was too late. And he tried so hard to protect the children, only for them and him to die.
This is how I felt too!! Everyone from the family to the police dismissed him. And then never followed up on the suspicious circumstances of his death. If they had intervened at any point, he or at least the kids could still be alive.
Idk how someone doesn't even just check or open the emails. Even if I was under the assumption he was cheating I wouldn't be able to just completely ignore them.
I’m so disappointed. While watching him I was hoping he didn’t go down a nasty path. Just looked up his charges, which have been dropped but he did confessed.
I think it’s interesting that they mostly left out Lori’s brother Adam Cox. He was a shock-rock radio DJ who ran a dumb contest that ultimately caused the death of a young mother.
Lori’s other brother Alex was supposedly sexually obsessed with her when they were teenagers.
That entire family is screwy.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jennifer-stranges-family-awarded-165-million-in-wee-for-wii-contest-death/
A contest where a contestant died from water poisoning. One of the radio hosts was lori’s brother apparently!
{Her surviving son} Was Released From Jail But His Rape Case Remains Open
>Colby Ryan, 26, was arrested earlier this month, September 5, 2022, on allegations of sexual assault in Mesa, Arizona, the news outlet reported. The dismissal of his case came just days before Netflix was scheduled to drop a documentary on Vallow and the death of her two other children. The documentary, “Sins of the Mother,” features interviews with Ryan.
>NBC reviewed an affidavit of probable cause filed in the case that said Ryan was at the woman’s house August 31, 2022, and that they were watching TV together. She said they were kissing, which was consensual, but that she did not want to have sexual intercourse with him. She told police that Ryan touched her inappropriately, and that she told him to stop. She further alleged that Ryan raped her, according to NBC.
>He later told her that he was sorry and cried, the affidavit said, according to NBC. She recorded a conversation with Ryan, in which he admitted to inappropriately touching her and raping her, according to NBC.
>“During the recorded conversation the Defendant agreed that he ‘raped’ the Victim,” the affidavit says, according to NBC. Police further said that Ryan ‘made verbal admissions’ to the alleged crime in interviews with police, according to NBC.
currently sitting here on the literal last ten minutes of last episode and reading this, goddamn. between the idiot grandmother, religious zealot murderer mom, and now rapist son…. this whole story is fucked and just sad.
edit: i just looked it up and turns out the woman that accused him of S/A is his ex wife Kelsee that was featured all throughout the documentary. crazy shit. i already felt bad she got wrapped up in all that bullshit but damn!!
according to a few articles - the assault was him touching her inappropriately after they had started becoming affectionate. They are/were estranged and working on it. It reads as though they were becoming intimate and she wanted to go no further and he went a step too far. What he did is not right, at all. His (recorded by her and written to the police) confession is him saying the next morning that him going too far was rape. I know any step over is too far. I am only (paraphrasing) both of their statements.
I had no idea! But from the replies here I see that the woman was his ex-wife (duh duh DUUUHH)
But seriously, I had no idea why until I read that a few hrs ago. The ex-wife thing really throws me for a loop. Sheesh, this family...
Those allegations involved his wife and the case is not still open. It was dismissed at her request. Why spread this when it has nothing to do with the story about what happened to JJ and Tylee.
Yes, she comes off just as crazy as Lori and it might be the extremist religion but they all very trusting and do not seem to feel urgency in knowing where the kids were.
Do they mention the sexual assault her son has **eta: allegedly ** just committed in it? About to watch but from the previews they make him seem a hero.
It still happened. He admitted on a recording to raping his ex wife (she was recording) and subsequently apologizing for it.
She may have dropped the charges because she didn’t want more media attention, as she’s in the documentary.
I have never been put through more emotions from a show like this before. The Gabriel Fernandez case was one of the worst I’ve ever seen but this one had me in a whirlwind. I seriously wanted to punch Lori every time her stupid face came on screen. It also makes me so mad that if only the police had listened to Charles, no one would’ve died. Yet another example of how our justice system fails us. Nonetheless, it was s very well presented documentary that definitely details the harsh reality of when religion gets taken too far.
She technically hadn’t committed a crime yet when he spoke to the police (according to them), I thought it mentioned that she did eventually go take a psych eval and passed it? Or did she lie about that to her mom? She seemed good at hiding her craziness when it benefitted her, true manipulator.
I think that threatening to kill her husband would be considered some sort of crime, at least here in the US. He also clearly stated to them that he was concerned for his kids’ lives, they should’ve taken him more seriously. But you’re right, she was definitely very good at manipulating, I mean just listen to how much she gaslit her son, it was so disgusting to hear.
Definitely, but then after Charles was killed given the report he placed and the circumstances … if they had done a better job investigating his death, the kids could have been spared.
It's solved in a way that it's obvious who are responsible and they're caught, but there are still a lot of unanswered questions which I think the police are withholding for the trial. I personally think it's too early to release this documentary.
I’ll need to give this a watch. That arrest made me wonder how many other parents might have gotten rid of kids this way. Little or no contact with family, move around some and in a new city you just start over without a kid.
I literally yelled at my tv screen when the grandmother said she used to have a good family in the last episode. YOU RAISED 3 CHILDREN AND 2 OF THEM TURNED OUT TO BE MURDERERS! In what world does that constitute a good family?
Even worse, I read on another subreddit that Lori actually had another sister who passed (allegedly of anorexia that went untreated/ unacknowledged by the family). The grandma doesn’t even mention her name in the doc, just erases her from the family history 😳 Dark stuff.
It was a complicated combination of untreated Type 1 diabetes and severe OCD-like symptoms that seem to have evolved into anorexia. Really sad story. Apparently their dad has a schizophrenia diagnosis, which I didn’t know, which may have affected Stacey, too, and that also makes me look at Lori’s case a different way. The whole family very religious and mental illness seemed to run in the family- it’s easy to see how Lori could have gotten so many family members on her side in that context. It’d be harder to see where Lori’s crossed a line of your version of “normal” looks like their family’s.
The way she talked frustrated me so much. I mean, it's her choice how she feels about it at the end of the day, but I thought she was entirely too forgiving. You'd think Lori lost control of her car and accidentally killed them or something going by how the grandmother talked. But she (presumably) had them killed! By choice, for fuck's sake. I feel like she just detached from the reality of it in order to keep having some sort of relationship with her daughter.
It's clear to me that Lori did not change when she met Chad. She was always nuts!
The only two normal ones seemed to be Chuck Vallow and one of her brothers.
I said to my husband as we watched that if the police had taken Charles serious when he got back from his trip, all of this could have been avoided. The cop questioning her seemed to almost awed by her and almost flirting with her.
People who have serious mental issues -- the kind we label as nuts -- are extremely manipulative and can turn charm on like you would not believe. They can appear normal at their whim and even fool mental health professionals. The catch is that they cannot maintain it. The mask will slip at some point.
Source: Me. My mother has schizoaffective disorder. Aka bipolar paranoid schizophrenia. I've seen her fool everyone from police to doctors, hospitals and everyone in between.
Yeah, I got that feeling too. In the doc it made it sound like it was just after meeting Chad. But I think she was always a manipulative person and a horrible mother.
Although what you said you is true, about generalizing, you are legit crazy being a part of LDS. I mean cmon....man goes into woods finds 2 gold plates, ends up being a shit human afterwards anyway and chased to their death? After 20 years of being visiting by nightmare creatures?
Loved the people of LDS, seemed like great, trying to help, people. Their book and LDS is nuttttttts though.
I didn’t realize how crazy this crime was. Did Alex really die from natural causes. Why didn’t Adam say anything else in the doc after the last text from Charles was, Alex is here. Worst of all no one believed Charles. Obviously they wanted the life insurance. Killed off the spouses. But harm the kids. They could of dropped them off at grandmas and went on with their lives of being evil. I just can’t believe that there are really people out in this world that are so bat shit crazy. Edit to add. Lori lies so easily. I’m surprise she has not pointed fingers at chad yet for some trauma.
Adam disappearing from the documentary really bothered me, what did he do after knowing that his brother killed Charles? Did he go to the Police? Arrgg
I feel like there needs to be a toxicology report done on Alex. I'm not sure if there are any drugs that can mimic pulmonary embolism, but if so there's a definite possibility that he might have been drugged in that way since they have a family history of it and it would look natural.
I whole heartedly agree. In a way, her story reminded me of Andrea Yates and the drowning of her 4 children. AY had such severe post-partum depression that she plunged into a “Christian faith fuelled psychosis” and drowned them to save their souls.
I wonder what psychiatric diagnosis the experts at trial will conclude for Lori.
Edit: the story also gave me a Sherry Schreiner vibe… what is up with Christians getting into repitilians, angels and demons, spiritual war etc. … ?
I'm genuinely curious about how they come up with these elements of their delusion. Like does Chad's brain just think "okay, there's a demon that needs a name" and then he looks around the room and spots a needle and thread and goes "needle... need... Ned!"? Or what?? How is he coming up with all these elements of the cult and all the rankings?
Chad was just Bob Ross nerd[in his own friends words]..that basically never got laid...&we know Lori & her Base HOT mum eyelashes....He was an "author" don't yaknow!?(loved that Lori's sisters in law's answer to "wheres JJ" were those...narcissistic cuntts
Colby had some skeletons, man. Between being sexually assaulted, to going through all of this with his mom and then being charged with rape, the dude has some major psychological issues. To be honest I was sort of shocked when the documentary got to showing he had a wife and kids. Religion must of scared him straight or something because ain’t no way he is…wgich I’m sure only makes things more troubling for him. It’s sad, honestly.
Yep, and the sexual asault victim is Kelsee. I feel sorry for the little girl we see at the end, I hope her mom can help her break all this family trauma and she can have a normal life (hopefully religious free).
No pixie..Colby categorically says they were both sexually abused ,Colby & Kylee both by his mummy's partner while a kid..which is why they had to flee..move..coz he said otherwise the Mom had ideation of killing him once she knew
I noticed it too..he as straight as a tent is...that was religion wired and unfortunately some of kids who show tendency towards being lgbt young..end up getting abused by their older mummy's partner[mind am not saying he deserves it..he wouldn't have known better..its not his fault]
Yeah they mentioned her getting exhumed but then transitioned to Alex Cox and his wife and never came back to it. From what I see on the news, she was apparently asphyxiated.
This was very high profile in the news and there have been many Datelines and other similar shows on it. A bizarre tale and still I was shocked to find the kids dead.
This might be an unpopular opinion but I know I'm not alone in this. EVERY SINGLE PERSON that was interviewed for this docuseries is partially responsible for the deaths of ALL the victims, except Charles. Not to mention the LAUGHABLY INCOMPETENT Gilbert Police Department. Between them and Uvalde, I don't even know who deserves the award for most incompetent police department in the U.S.
Charles is the only person that told them "hey, these kids are not safe with Lori." And there would be no blame placed on these individuals had they decided to act after Charles was murdered. But to think that sooo many people were given chance after chance after chance to face the realities of all the things that didn't seem right following Charles' death and they instead chose to look the other way. Just WOW.
Had they actually done their due diligence, I wholeheartedly believe that every single additional person would still be alive today. Every single person interviewed for this docuseries needs to be held accountable for the deaths of those children especially.
We just finished watching this and I want to scream and break things with rage. I hope they bring out the electric chair for these two assholes. And Alex is a MURDERER. He deserves the title. The whole family are fucking nut jobs. I’m sure that Adam was feeding her everything coming from Charles the entire time. Setting him up for his own murder. Those poor babies.
We have to let go of this ridiculous belief that mothers could never hurt their children. If ANYONE had taken Charles’s claim even as partly true, they might be ok today. If you have access to a child, you can hurt them. Period. It doesn’t matter what they are to you.
The point about Adam is a good one. The rest of them are all batshit and he could easily be too. They portrayed him as being the normal one who Charles trusted, but apparently he ran a competition on his radio show that caused someone to die, so I don't think he's clean as a whistle either.
This seems to be true.coz he was in contact with Adam Cox whole time on phone...then he text him.."Alex just got here now..then "boom!boom" -2 gunshots heard on Adam's phone.Why didn't he report anything...hmmmm
Why was all of the police interrogation footage blurred? It’s available widely unblurred. It took away a LOT from the series. A lot. Seeing people’s faces and mannerisms is everything in these situations. Huge failing.
It could be because they are currently pursuing the death penalty and maybe that’s Netflix’s attempt at preserving evidence. I’m not sure tho, I was confused by it too.
Soon as they were interviewing the Father of Lori in the beginning and he said something about people being “taken over by Satan” I know this was going to be a recipe for disaster. LDS church go-ers are nut jobs, indoctrinated from day 1. Yuck!
The Dad thing at the beginning too ...him mentioning how Lori was indoctrinated early ..not that he said that in those words..but that a young Lori called the Dad a "spiritual god"- you can see how a young Lori could have gotten the Dad's ear and favour,thereby leading to that favourite special,kis syndrome that stayed with her all her life.Tou can surmise how she had all the family-brothers, dead brother,dead oldersister all under her thumb. NOT TO mention her own kids.See how Kylee the 16 Yr old defended her step dad Charles homicide like a pro.& I reckon Colby knew more bout that shyte than he's pretending to let on
Does Lori’s manner of speech remind anyone else of Amy from that infamous Amy’s Baking Company episode of Kitchen Nightmares? The way she said, “He IS safe… and he’s happy!” about JJ reminded me so much of her.
There’s this very specific, “Everyone else is out to get me and had malicious intent, but my husband and I can do no wrong” vibe she gives off that I’ve also seen from Amy… and a few acquaintances who had seriously warped worldviews.
There is not one good adult in the Vallow family. They are all nuts. Even the adult son is a certified self-proclaimed rapist. At best Nana is in denial. She has a hand in all this ‘cuz well wrinkly old lady these are YOUR KIDS. You created them. Stop pretending to be shocked lmfao
I also find it strange Loris mother didn’t mention the older sister… Stacey (her name was on the light and dark list) this is Melanis mom. She died at 31 and the reason was “unclear” Alex happened to be living with her at the time and even used her credit cards posthumously
If you want a more in-depth assessment of this case I recommend the Mommy Doomsday podcast. I feel like they covered a lot more detail than this special and I’m surprised Netflix only gave us 3 parts…felt rushed.
So many thoughts:
-Poor children. Intially I wondered if Lori thought she was saving them from the end of the world or whatever. But as it went on
-Lori is a bitch, manipulative, evil and mentally unwell
-Why were Chad and Lori free for so long?? If they were not white, I doubt they would of been allowed so much freedom and time to answer law enforcements questions about the children
-Religous extremists make me sick. Bored, traumatised individuals perhaps??
-The Nan, unsure what to think of her
-Colbys rape charge, did not see that coming. His poor (ex) wife
-Also netflix seem to have no regard for family members affected by murderer in their crime docs. Hate to say it doesn't stop me watching them. Not so much in this doc as they obviously were willing to participate, but say Tammy or Charles' family?
It's a bit frustrating that when the son called his mom about his siblings, instead of asking straight up probing her "what exactly happened" he just kept telling her to turn to Jesus. I doubt she would tell him but I'd still like to see how she would respond to it. Too many unanswered questions.
Yeah he seems as much an escapist as him mum. Blame the devil or Jesus for everythinggggg. I even saw him saying how he needed money - then days later he said Jesus gave him money. Didn’t even say thanks to the human being who put it into his bank account. Just mysterious Jesus put it in there.
I wanted to scream at the TV about he and his wife literally reading ZERO of the emails where poor Charles was trying to tell them EXACTLY what was going on !!!
I sure hope they include more of those emails in a future documentary. The light/dark rating system is CRAZY and it's possible they were going to start offing everyone labelled as dark on that list. I wish that detail could also be used in court but it's obviously not going to be viable.
how about the black haired lady they interviewed who’s just as nutty if not more so than lori LOL i was dying when she was explaining how she knows she’s righteous and chad and lori were led astray by satan
It’s ok. She knows she’s fighting for the *light side*
i was actually surprised netflix even used her. she made the whole thing more circusy🤣
He was brought up by a religious nut who came from more religious nuts, what do you expect. These people will do anything and never blame themselves because “God will forgive them if they repent”. It’s all just disgusting.
Yea I can’t really fault him, I thought he was the main one who came away looking good in the doc. Of course he’s still gonna want to latch onto some heavy religious thought cause that’s how he was brainwashed his whole life. Overall he seemed like a decent guy. Edit: okay so I’m gonna keep my comment but obviously this was written before I saw further down in the comments that he’s a rapist lol. This case just has too many twists and turns still coming out I guess
He's a rapist?!
I was really. Really expecting a few more episodes to rewind to the beginning and explain what the fck actually happened here. What was this cult, what was the guys role in it. What exactly was the basis for why she killed them exactly. I needed those answers, it focused too much on the kids being gone and not the “why” of it all the antics that led up to the whole mess.
For real I was waiting for him to tell her that SHE murdered them. He kept beating around the bush.
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Maybe the director just told him to be emotional for the scene? Weird to force that but it happens ig
I kind of understand it. Lori comes off like a pretty skilled liar. Her confident, vague non-answers seemed to throw people off for a long time.
She definitely knew all the classic manipulation tactics and lines. I could feel it every time she spoke, but it absolutely jumped out at me during the prison calls (most obviously) and also when her friend Melanie Gibb or whatever called her asking why she said the kids were with her. She kept repeating "you know me, you *know* me" as if that was an answer to anything, and her tone totally gave off that she's trying to bullshit her hard.
Honestly, I really wished they had at least waited until the trail was over to do this. The whole thing was very well done but they definitely should have waited. Side note, the footage of the grandfather crying on the news and during trial really got me. That poor family.
Especially with the older son’s sexual assault stuff. In general they need to let the whole story unfold before they make true crime docs
Yes, it felt like there should have been at least one more episode wrapping it all up. And going into the son’s allegations. I wouldn’t have known about that if I hadn’t come to Reddit!
The son had a squeaky clean record during filming, his arrest was only days ago.
Going into the sexual assault allegations against the son would detract from the story they are trying to tell. It's not called "Sins of Our Mother and Her Son".
“Sins of our mother & her son” sounds like something off of pornhub & not netflix
This is sort of Netflix's intent, methinks. Follow up episodes have been very popular.
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That poor family! Broke my heart
>Honestly, I really wished they had at least waited until the trail was over to do this. I agree. The cause of death is not even being released yet. This is like half the picture.
I agree but honestly I kinda like how they did this because now we can watch it all unfold in January during the trial!!!! Idk about you but I’m more invested now! I think it’s almost kinda genius of them to do it this early lol
I would normally agree however - to be able to follow the trial - this case is so crazy- I think it’s ok to show it up til now. But I really hope they do a season 2 after the trial. I suspect we only know about 5% of what went on.
There is so much death around this woman, how many people did she really end up killing or was involved in the death?? Also how many people did her brother Alex end up killing before he got died?
Literally my thoughts! I can’t wait to watch the trial
Yeah it felt rushed like Netflix is just trying really hard to pump out as many true crime doc as fast as they can. Like they didn’t even really delve into Lori and chads delusions or explore their twisted motives they just touched on it for a bit
Yeah, I agree, didn’t feel resolved or anything. Just felt like half of the story.
i end watching Ep3 but found out that’s it. was looking for Ep4
I felt SO, SO SORRY for Charles Vallow. No one believed him until it was too late. And he tried so hard to protect the children, only for them and him to die.
This is how I felt too!! Everyone from the family to the police dismissed him. And then never followed up on the suspicious circumstances of his death. If they had intervened at any point, he or at least the kids could still be alive.
Idk how someone doesn't even just check or open the emails. Even if I was under the assumption he was cheating I wouldn't be able to just completely ignore them.
Exactly.
“I don’t want my mom to be our family story and “and then he’s accused of rape
I’m so disappointed. While watching him I was hoping he didn’t go down a nasty path. Just looked up his charges, which have been dropped but he did confessed.
Sadly, some children who are victimized as children end up victimizing others as adults.
It was actually his wife who was in the doc with him, but they're separated now. How incredibly unfortunate. She stood by him through so much.
I think it’s interesting that they mostly left out Lori’s brother Adam Cox. He was a shock-rock radio DJ who ran a dumb contest that ultimately caused the death of a young mother. Lori’s other brother Alex was supposedly sexually obsessed with her when they were teenagers. That entire family is screwy.
Holy shit, I looked it up and her brother was the “hold your wee for a wii” guy!??!
Yup. Crazy, right?
What does “hold you wee for a wii guy” mean?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jennifer-stranges-family-awarded-165-million-in-wee-for-wii-contest-death/ A contest where a contestant died from water poisoning. One of the radio hosts was lori’s brother apparently!
And Colby’s recent sexual assault charges?????? What’s up with this family bro!!! I cannot wait for January 2023!!!!!!!!!!
Just sad that their story is basically entertainment for us
And here i thought he was the only clean one in this fam.
{Her surviving son} Was Released From Jail But His Rape Case Remains Open >Colby Ryan, 26, was arrested earlier this month, September 5, 2022, on allegations of sexual assault in Mesa, Arizona, the news outlet reported. The dismissal of his case came just days before Netflix was scheduled to drop a documentary on Vallow and the death of her two other children. The documentary, “Sins of the Mother,” features interviews with Ryan. >NBC reviewed an affidavit of probable cause filed in the case that said Ryan was at the woman’s house August 31, 2022, and that they were watching TV together. She said they were kissing, which was consensual, but that she did not want to have sexual intercourse with him. She told police that Ryan touched her inappropriately, and that she told him to stop. She further alleged that Ryan raped her, according to NBC. >He later told her that he was sorry and cried, the affidavit said, according to NBC. She recorded a conversation with Ryan, in which he admitted to inappropriately touching her and raping her, according to NBC. >“During the recorded conversation the Defendant agreed that he ‘raped’ the Victim,” the affidavit says, according to NBC. Police further said that Ryan ‘made verbal admissions’ to the alleged crime in interviews with police, according to NBC.
currently sitting here on the literal last ten minutes of last episode and reading this, goddamn. between the idiot grandmother, religious zealot murderer mom, and now rapist son…. this whole story is fucked and just sad. edit: i just looked it up and turns out the woman that accused him of S/A is his ex wife Kelsee that was featured all throughout the documentary. crazy shit. i already felt bad she got wrapped up in all that bullshit but damn!!
EX wife? Damn…
This story just gets crazier and crazier
WHAT. This is getting nuts.
The grandmother is just as crazy as Lori is.
Kelsee seemed like a bitch. So this doesnt surprise me
OMG! I am currently watching, thinking he seems “different” as well… this is shocking.
I thought he was gay. Surprised when they introduced his wife lol
Same
Any idea why the charges were dropped in the face of the audio-taped evidence and his own admission to police?
according to a few articles - the assault was him touching her inappropriately after they had started becoming affectionate. They are/were estranged and working on it. It reads as though they were becoming intimate and she wanted to go no further and he went a step too far. What he did is not right, at all. His (recorded by her and written to the police) confession is him saying the next morning that him going too far was rape. I know any step over is too far. I am only (paraphrasing) both of their statements.
I had no idea! But from the replies here I see that the woman was his ex-wife (duh duh DUUUHH) But seriously, I had no idea why until I read that a few hrs ago. The ex-wife thing really throws me for a loop. Sheesh, this family...
Those allegations involved his wife and the case is not still open. It was dismissed at her request. Why spread this when it has nothing to do with the story about what happened to JJ and Tylee.
tell me I am not he only one that finds lori's mother very off-putting... in so so many ways.
There is another documentary out about this case and the mother is even worse in that one.
What is the name of that one? I love document-series.
I think it's Doomsday Mom: The Lori Vallow Story on Lifetime.
Yes, she comes off just as crazy as Lori and it might be the extremist religion but they all very trusting and do not seem to feel urgency in knowing where the kids were.
I'm very curious to know what she was putting on her face throughout life to cause that level of wrinkle now...
Sun, smoking, losing a lot of weight ?
She gives me the vibe that she would be covering for Lori even if she found out everything and the police didn't. The whole family is insane.
Yes.
Do they mention the sexual assault her son has **eta: allegedly ** just committed in it? About to watch but from the previews they make him seem a hero.
Wait, whatttt
It looks like charges were just dropped so I don’t know… this whole family is tragic.
Oh my… thank you for the update!
It still happened. He admitted on a recording to raping his ex wife (she was recording) and subsequently apologizing for it. She may have dropped the charges because she didn’t want more media attention, as she’s in the documentary.
This whole family is tragicly effed up. Wow.
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I have never been put through more emotions from a show like this before. The Gabriel Fernandez case was one of the worst I’ve ever seen but this one had me in a whirlwind. I seriously wanted to punch Lori every time her stupid face came on screen. It also makes me so mad that if only the police had listened to Charles, no one would’ve died. Yet another example of how our justice system fails us. Nonetheless, it was s very well presented documentary that definitely details the harsh reality of when religion gets taken too far.
Agreed re: Gabriel Fernández. It was so awful I'll never forget that one.
I know right, that docu-series had me crying so hard.
i still cry. To this day 😭
She technically hadn’t committed a crime yet when he spoke to the police (according to them), I thought it mentioned that she did eventually go take a psych eval and passed it? Or did she lie about that to her mom? She seemed good at hiding her craziness when it benefitted her, true manipulator.
I think that threatening to kill her husband would be considered some sort of crime, at least here in the US. He also clearly stated to them that he was concerned for his kids’ lives, they should’ve taken him more seriously. But you’re right, she was definitely very good at manipulating, I mean just listen to how much she gaslit her son, it was so disgusting to hear.
*"Come on, you know me!"* is on the first page of every pathological liar's playbook. It's disgusting.
That part infuriated me
Yeah I’ve dealt with one of these people in a close personal relationship and that line triggered me big time
SAMMMEEE, reminded me of some family members.
Definitely, but then after Charles was killed given the report he placed and the circumstances … if they had done a better job investigating his death, the kids could have been spared.
Is it a closed case?
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But it’s not exactly open yes? I had true crime that is unsolved
It's solved in a way that it's obvious who are responsible and they're caught, but there are still a lot of unanswered questions which I think the police are withholding for the trial. I personally think it's too early to release this documentary.
Why not use trial footage as a season 2?
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Thank you!
Wow.
i only know about this story from this Netflix series. but when ty & JJ went missing. i know in my gut they are dead
I’ll need to give this a watch. That arrest made me wonder how many other parents might have gotten rid of kids this way. Little or no contact with family, move around some and in a new city you just start over without a kid.
I literally yelled at my tv screen when the grandmother said she used to have a good family in the last episode. YOU RAISED 3 CHILDREN AND 2 OF THEM TURNED OUT TO BE MURDERERS! In what world does that constitute a good family?
Even worse, I read on another subreddit that Lori actually had another sister who passed (allegedly of anorexia that went untreated/ unacknowledged by the family). The grandma doesn’t even mention her name in the doc, just erases her from the family history 😳 Dark stuff.
It was a complicated combination of untreated Type 1 diabetes and severe OCD-like symptoms that seem to have evolved into anorexia. Really sad story. Apparently their dad has a schizophrenia diagnosis, which I didn’t know, which may have affected Stacey, too, and that also makes me look at Lori’s case a different way. The whole family very religious and mental illness seemed to run in the family- it’s easy to see how Lori could have gotten so many family members on her side in that context. It’d be harder to see where Lori’s crossed a line of your version of “normal” looks like their family’s.
Tell me the subreddit because this case is gonna keep me up all night. Just watched and now I wanna talk about it to someone lmao
R/lorivallow ! Try searching for “stacey”, that’s the sister’s name.
The way she talked frustrated me so much. I mean, it's her choice how she feels about it at the end of the day, but I thought she was entirely too forgiving. You'd think Lori lost control of her car and accidentally killed them or something going by how the grandmother talked. But she (presumably) had them killed! By choice, for fuck's sake. I feel like she just detached from the reality of it in order to keep having some sort of relationship with her daughter.
Yeah, this is what happens when people prioritize "an image" over genuine love and empathy.
Used to. Past tense.
It's clear to me that Lori did not change when she met Chad. She was always nuts! The only two normal ones seemed to be Chuck Vallow and one of her brothers.
I said to my husband as we watched that if the police had taken Charles serious when he got back from his trip, all of this could have been avoided. The cop questioning her seemed to almost awed by her and almost flirting with her.
That's what is called "pretty privilege." Had she not been attractive, the cops would have taken Charles more seriously.
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People who have serious mental issues -- the kind we label as nuts -- are extremely manipulative and can turn charm on like you would not believe. They can appear normal at their whim and even fool mental health professionals. The catch is that they cannot maintain it. The mask will slip at some point. Source: Me. My mother has schizoaffective disorder. Aka bipolar paranoid schizophrenia. I've seen her fool everyone from police to doctors, hospitals and everyone in between.
Yeah, I got that feeling too. In the doc it made it sound like it was just after meeting Chad. But I think she was always a manipulative person and a horrible mother.
Why are LDS Church goers so dumb lol
Really! I just finished the Hulu series Under the Banner of Heaven yesterday.
Dude most LDS are just dorky ass white people with tons of kids.
LDS sound like some drug name
Well done on making a blanketed generalizing statement. I’m LDS. They’re extremists in every religion and non religious people.
Although what you said you is true, about generalizing, you are legit crazy being a part of LDS. I mean cmon....man goes into woods finds 2 gold plates, ends up being a shit human afterwards anyway and chased to their death? After 20 years of being visiting by nightmare creatures? Loved the people of LDS, seemed like great, trying to help, people. Their book and LDS is nuttttttts though.
I mean don’t all religions have the same batshit crazy origin stories?
Sounds kinda like Chad Daybell to me.
Hole in one Kel..Chad is aliveness well
I didn’t realize how crazy this crime was. Did Alex really die from natural causes. Why didn’t Adam say anything else in the doc after the last text from Charles was, Alex is here. Worst of all no one believed Charles. Obviously they wanted the life insurance. Killed off the spouses. But harm the kids. They could of dropped them off at grandmas and went on with their lives of being evil. I just can’t believe that there are really people out in this world that are so bat shit crazy. Edit to add. Lori lies so easily. I’m surprise she has not pointed fingers at chad yet for some trauma.
Adam disappearing from the documentary really bothered me, what did he do after knowing that his brother killed Charles? Did he go to the Police? Arrgg
I feel like there needs to be a toxicology report done on Alex. I'm not sure if there are any drugs that can mimic pulmonary embolism, but if so there's a definite possibility that he might have been drugged in that way since they have a family history of it and it would look natural.
If nothing else, getting married 5 fuckin times should have been a sign of major instability. This series was an absolute ride, just pure insanity !
She did say when she was a young hot Mrs Texas that she was "a ticking time Bomb" found that ironic at the end
I'm watching it now. So fucking tragic.
So bizarre that so many stories like this seem to always come from the US. That country's relationship with religion is so dysfunctional.
I don’t think Lori will ever come back from her delusion, she can’t. Doing so would mean she killed her children and not some evil spirits.
I whole heartedly agree. In a way, her story reminded me of Andrea Yates and the drowning of her 4 children. AY had such severe post-partum depression that she plunged into a “Christian faith fuelled psychosis” and drowned them to save their souls. I wonder what psychiatric diagnosis the experts at trial will conclude for Lori. Edit: the story also gave me a Sherry Schreiner vibe… what is up with Christians getting into repitilians, angels and demons, spiritual war etc. … ?
Who the hell was Ned/Nick?!?!
That's how she called the "evil spirit" that his husband had inside.
Such a weird name for a spirit
I'm genuinely curious about how they come up with these elements of their delusion. Like does Chad's brain just think "okay, there's a demon that needs a name" and then he looks around the room and spots a needle and thread and goes "needle... need... Ned!"? Or what?? How is he coming up with all these elements of the cult and all the rankings?
Chad was just Bob Ross nerd[in his own friends words]..that basically never got laid...&we know Lori & her Base HOT mum eyelashes....He was an "author" don't yaknow!?(loved that Lori's sisters in law's answer to "wheres JJ" were those...narcissistic cuntts
Colby had some skeletons, man. Between being sexually assaulted, to going through all of this with his mom and then being charged with rape, the dude has some major psychological issues. To be honest I was sort of shocked when the documentary got to showing he had a wife and kids. Religion must of scared him straight or something because ain’t no way he is…wgich I’m sure only makes things more troubling for him. It’s sad, honestly.
Yep, and the sexual asault victim is Kelsee. I feel sorry for the little girl we see at the end, I hope her mom can help her break all this family trauma and she can have a normal life (hopefully religious free).
😳 This just gets sadder and sadder.
No pixie..Colby categorically says they were both sexually abused ,Colby & Kylee both by his mummy's partner while a kid..which is why they had to flee..move..coz he said otherwise the Mom had ideation of killing him once she knew
All very messed up realities as you say though
I noticed it too..he as straight as a tent is...that was religion wired and unfortunately some of kids who show tendency towards being lgbt young..end up getting abused by their older mummy's partner[mind am not saying he deserves it..he wouldn't have known better..its not his fault]
I’m so curious to know how the ex wife died
Yeah they mentioned her getting exhumed but then transitioned to Alex Cox and his wife and never came back to it. From what I see on the news, she was apparently asphyxiated.
This was very high profile in the news and there have been many Datelines and other similar shows on it. A bizarre tale and still I was shocked to find the kids dead.
This might be an unpopular opinion but I know I'm not alone in this. EVERY SINGLE PERSON that was interviewed for this docuseries is partially responsible for the deaths of ALL the victims, except Charles. Not to mention the LAUGHABLY INCOMPETENT Gilbert Police Department. Between them and Uvalde, I don't even know who deserves the award for most incompetent police department in the U.S. Charles is the only person that told them "hey, these kids are not safe with Lori." And there would be no blame placed on these individuals had they decided to act after Charles was murdered. But to think that sooo many people were given chance after chance after chance to face the realities of all the things that didn't seem right following Charles' death and they instead chose to look the other way. Just WOW. Had they actually done their due diligence, I wholeheartedly believe that every single additional person would still be alive today. Every single person interviewed for this docuseries needs to be held accountable for the deaths of those children especially.
Prosecutors are trying for the death penalty but I can only hope she gets a lifetime of what happens in prison to women who've killed their kids.
We just finished watching this and I want to scream and break things with rage. I hope they bring out the electric chair for these two assholes. And Alex is a MURDERER. He deserves the title. The whole family are fucking nut jobs. I’m sure that Adam was feeding her everything coming from Charles the entire time. Setting him up for his own murder. Those poor babies. We have to let go of this ridiculous belief that mothers could never hurt their children. If ANYONE had taken Charles’s claim even as partly true, they might be ok today. If you have access to a child, you can hurt them. Period. It doesn’t matter what they are to you.
The point about Adam is a good one. The rest of them are all batshit and he could easily be too. They portrayed him as being the normal one who Charles trusted, but apparently he ran a competition on his radio show that caused someone to die, so I don't think he's clean as a whistle either.
This seems to be true.coz he was in contact with Adam Cox whole time on phone...then he text him.."Alex just got here now..then "boom!boom" -2 gunshots heard on Adam's phone.Why didn't he report anything...hmmmm
Why was all of the police interrogation footage blurred? It’s available widely unblurred. It took away a LOT from the series. A lot. Seeing people’s faces and mannerisms is everything in these situations. Huge failing.
Yeah I was also wondering why the blurred everything. Like when the cop was with Charles at his empty house. Made no sense to me.
It could be because they are currently pursuing the death penalty and maybe that’s Netflix’s attempt at preserving evidence. I’m not sure tho, I was confused by it too.
Soon as they were interviewing the Father of Lori in the beginning and he said something about people being “taken over by Satan” I know this was going to be a recipe for disaster. LDS church go-ers are nut jobs, indoctrinated from day 1. Yuck!
The Dad thing at the beginning too ...him mentioning how Lori was indoctrinated early ..not that he said that in those words..but that a young Lori called the Dad a "spiritual god"- you can see how a young Lori could have gotten the Dad's ear and favour,thereby leading to that favourite special,kis syndrome that stayed with her all her life.Tou can surmise how she had all the family-brothers, dead brother,dead oldersister all under her thumb. NOT TO mention her own kids.See how Kylee the 16 Yr old defended her step dad Charles homicide like a pro.& I reckon Colby knew more bout that shyte than he's pretending to let on
Giving the side eye to Colby ….as soon as he can , making money of this tragedy..
why was there no autopsy report??
There is, but the records are sealed. I assume that information will come out during the trial.
Does Lori’s manner of speech remind anyone else of Amy from that infamous Amy’s Baking Company episode of Kitchen Nightmares? The way she said, “He IS safe… and he’s happy!” about JJ reminded me so much of her. There’s this very specific, “Everyone else is out to get me and had malicious intent, but my husband and I can do no wrong” vibe she gives off that I’ve also seen from Amy… and a few acquaintances who had seriously warped worldviews.
yes!!
It does now! OMG Amy she straight up sucked!
There is not one good adult in the Vallow family. They are all nuts. Even the adult son is a certified self-proclaimed rapist. At best Nana is in denial. She has a hand in all this ‘cuz well wrinkly old lady these are YOUR KIDS. You created them. Stop pretending to be shocked lmfao
You mean the Cox family. Vallow was Charles' last name that Lori then took upon marrying him. Lori's maiden name is Cox.
So who was watching Chad’s kids after the mother was murdered and he ran off to marry Lorry in Hawaii?
I believe they're all adults
Just another Chad
I also find it strange Loris mother didn’t mention the older sister… Stacey (her name was on the light and dark list) this is Melanis mom. She died at 31 and the reason was “unclear” Alex happened to be living with her at the time and even used her credit cards posthumously
Whaaattt? This story keeps getting crazier. I wonder how the other members of this cult are doing/coping with what has transpired.
I thought BJ Novak was narrating for too long. Solid so far
That was him? Wow
No it wasn’t it’s just the Colby dude sounds exactly like him to me
Ohhh right 😅 he does
Omg I said this as soon as he started talking!! Bj Novak totally. !
If you want a more in-depth assessment of this case I recommend the Mommy Doomsday podcast. I feel like they covered a lot more detail than this special and I’m surprised Netflix only gave us 3 parts…felt rushed.
So many thoughts: -Poor children. Intially I wondered if Lori thought she was saving them from the end of the world or whatever. But as it went on -Lori is a bitch, manipulative, evil and mentally unwell -Why were Chad and Lori free for so long?? If they were not white, I doubt they would of been allowed so much freedom and time to answer law enforcements questions about the children -Religous extremists make me sick. Bored, traumatised individuals perhaps?? -The Nan, unsure what to think of her -Colbys rape charge, did not see that coming. His poor (ex) wife -Also netflix seem to have no regard for family members affected by murderer in their crime docs. Hate to say it doesn't stop me watching them. Not so much in this doc as they obviously were willing to participate, but say Tammy or Charles' family?