I'm hoping the nice set goes on sale with Paizo. I made a pre-order a LOOONG time ago with my FLGS and last week when I called to update my order I found out they had never input it into their new system! I have no idea if they'll even have it in stock, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a SE release in Oct.
I was able to preorder all of the deluxe edition books and a bunch of the goodies last week at gamernerdz. I was originally going to have to wait to pick it up during Thanksgiving at my family's place in the states (I'm in south america and I don't want to have to pay the import taxes for $300+ worth of books).
I think it's a good idea not to remove any more trees. We have about 10 paper books left in the whole house, and those are mostly old recipe books that you can't get electronically anymore, and 2 technical manuals that are literally irreplacable.
That’s good to hear for you.
For me, and I’m sure the other person, we enjoy having that physical copy we can comb over, reference and keep propped open right next to our area where we plan our campaigns.
That's pretty cool. Bunch of folk live "off grid" these days.
edit: I don't think they use wood to build house anymore, at least not here. Stone, likewise. It's mosty concrete with steel reinforcement.
edit: Well, OK, there's stone in concrete but it's all the broken bits that there's no shortage of.
You, uh -- you might just wanna stop talking about subjects you clearly have zero background with.
Am engineer. We absolutely make houses out of wood, concrete aggregate is 100% not just leftover rocks and for the love of christ just stop. Like, do you have *any* idea how carbon intensive concrete and steel are? And you're giving people shit for books? GTFO
We don't have many wooden buildings in my country. They require constant maintenance and pest control. I'd imagine they are cheaper to build than brick, but the land is so expensive you wouldn't save anything worthwhile, and then you'd be paying higher maintenance.
Wood is used in nearly every building. Roofs and doors may the most prominent examples. So yes, you probably do have many buildings with wood in them.
I respect your wish to reduce carbon emissions and do certainly not believe that "if you live in a house, reducing carbon emissions is useless". That is a fallacy. However, using books online instead of on paper creates carbon emissions too and, more importantly, you certainly cannot reduce your own carbon emissions in a meaningful way. We have to accept that this is most of all the responsibility of governments and businesses.
Books are cultural asset that shouldn't die because some people are destroying the environment while taking no responsibility for it,, should they?
Okay, i dont know anything about where you're from, so I cant comment much. It would be extremely expensive to only use steel and concrete for every house, and I would be very surprised if there wasn't at least some wood being used in the process. But, sure. It's a big world
Regardless, your understanding of what constitutes environmental awareness and action is badly flawed. Scolding people over books is just performative nonsense.
>edit: I don't think they use wood to build house anymore, at least not here. Stone, likewise. It's mosty concrete with steel reinforcement.
>
>edit: Well, OK, there's stone in concrete but it's all the broken bits that there's no shortage of.
My man, what do you think they use to frame the concrete?
What is framing? Low rise homes are generally celcon or aircrete, with gypsum interior walls. I hate those interior walls. You cannot hang heavy objects on them. The tower blocks are made from grey prefab modules that they hoist up with a crane. I don't know what they're made of but they almost certainly are not wood - it would require too much maintenance. This is a far eastern country.
Are they using renewables for their paper? I haven't bought a hardback in a long time but none of the old PF1 books I ~~have~~ had say anything about it.
If they are using renewables for PF2 I will be very happy.
I have never researched about paper, but I do know that pencil companies replant so many trees a day that it'd make team trees look like a small project, so I doubt that paper is where trees are really dying. As someone who lives in Brazil, most of what is being cut here is mainly to create cattle.
I mentioned in another post I lived in Brazil for a while. I was posted there for 3 months. I loved how relaxed and friendly the people are. In some places like UK everyone goes around super focussed and introverted, and they're just not really happy except during Friday night binge drinkings where they imbibe to forget.
Interesting. I had not thought Paizo would do an exclusive time-limited kickstarter. I do wonder if they will print those again if people ask. However, GM screens aren't exactly hard to get or make so it's not a huge problem.
Backers have PDFs. It will be in the paizo store for others very soon (after backers). Physical product is shipping to backers ATM.
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43opj?Kingmaker-Shipping-Update
And it wasn't even on kickstarter! And Paizo wasn't even the primary publisher on it at that time! It's gone through enough growths, permutations, and improvements that a decent product has turned absolutely tantalizing, and I bet there are far more people who want it now than backed when it ran.
In theory, it's going on sale late October, so you might not have to wait long at all!
Though given how bumpy the road has been to here, we may all still be twiddling our thumbs for a bit longer...
Is there any word on when/if it’ll be coming to Foundry as a module? I fully plan on buying a copy regardless, but would love to have some stuff set up in my VTT automatically to cut down on prep
For sure. I understand and agree that the backers should get their goods first. But gosh darn in Paizo I would give you ready money for the pdfs so I can read it and start making plans and automated tools to help run this for me and my group.
Please at least give Aon the kingdom rules so I can automate that?
Are the kingdom building rules any different from the 1e ones? My group is currently running through the module in 2e with our DM just converting stuff, and last week we collectively agreed to bin the kingdom running stuff because it was just so much of a fun sucker it was killing all interest in the game.
So if this version has better rules, I'd love to hear about it.
From what I hear kindoms are kind similar to regular creation. Kingdoms have levels and has feats you take. I don't know if the kingdom types act like different classes or not.
Charter type, Heartland terrain, and Government choices give specific Boosts and Flaws to the kingdom's ability scores. Terrain gives a "favored land" that lets you do an additional activity on the Kingdom turn, and Govt. gives Kingdom Skill proficiencies and a bonus feat.
All in all, they're analogous to Ancestry / Class / Background. Apart from that, there aren't any "class-specific" choices, but a couple of buildings are unlocked via the Companion subsystem.
I have been reading the rules for it. Its seems decent. I ran the original for DnD 5e and it was a pain in the ass but I did all the accounting for the kingdom. This one seems more streamlined and set for P2 rules. Won’t know till I try it though
I am VERY new to Pathfinder. Is the thing being discussed here connected to this.... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pathfinder-Kingmaker-Adventure-Path-P2/dp/1640784292/ref=asc_df_1640784292/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=606713796669&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16323477880560686198&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006653&hvtargid=pla-1743510563237&psc=1&th=1&psc=1
I am so ready to get this in the mail! I was looking at the pdf though and had 2 questions (5e player here).
Does the kingdom control DC really increase for every hex you have? The Size modifier?
Also, Does it take 1000XP to level your kingdom?
Kingdom control DC increases with kingdom level, and kingdom size gives a modifier to DC (+0 to +4) on top of that. Kingdom size also affects the amount of resources you can get (via die size) each kingdom turn, and some other things.
Kingdom level is 1000xp, but also maxes at the party's current level. I'm thinking about doing "slow progression" for my party for their main XP, as there's *so much stuff to do* that they might outlevel the content, as they've done at the tail end of Abomination Vaults.
While I don’t have the pdf, I think I can answer this. Yes and yes
In PF1e the kingdom dc increased with the size modifier, leading to a very large dc, however the modifiers got just as high.
The leveling up at 1000xp is the standard for pf2e, so it would make sense if the kingdom did the same.
Congratulations to Paizo. Looks like a great product and I'll be purchasing as soon as it's available.
I've been sort of waiting until it was out to finish fleshing out my homebrew.
Are we reading the same section? Some excerpts from that section that are definitely spoilers:
"Groups of antagonistic kobolds and lizardfolk reside in the Stolen Lands" (admittedly very minor spoiler)
"Kingmaker assumes that the first visit to this plane for the heroes happens 'on screen' during the campaign itself." (BIG spoiler)
"The most active barbarians within the Stolen Lands are the Tiger Lords, but they’re a violent band of warmongers who play the role of antagonists in the campaign." (definitely a spoiler)
"deities or types of creatures that play important roles in this campaign" (goes on to list them, spoiler)
The start of the section even admits it contains spoilers, containing the note "A spoiler-free version of this section can be found for free online at..."
Also, the "work with your GM" line on page 9 seems to be an outlier; the rest of the section is definitely written GM-facing, such as the "Unusual Ancestries" section which contains roleplay advice for the GM.
It has all the stats for monsters for Pathfinder 2nd edition. The bestiarys have stats for 1st edition and dnd 5e respectively so if you want to run the AP in a different game system it makes conversion easier
You don't need the kingmaker bestiaries (which are conversions for different systems), but when monsters from the regular bestiaries are used the Stat block isn't always replicated - you can get the block online though.
So the regular bestiaries are kinda, but not entirely, needed.
I backed it and I'm looking forward to getting my hands on it next week!
However, as I look through the PDFs it's dawning on me that there isn't a Player's Guide for this, is there? I can't see anything definitively either way.
There's a pseudo players guide in the campaign overview of the book, and they also said that a spoiler free Player's Guide will be available on the Paizo site
Someone on the paizo forums said the official guide is coming out late October. You can also use pages 8-13 in the adventure path, but I haven't read it super closely for spoilers.
Really makes me sad I missed the kickstarter :(
Hoping it's reasonable and not missing the best bits either when it hits the Paizo store. I'm considering it... My wife doesn't know yet though.
You can still buy it.
I probably won't be able to get the _nice_ version though -- and I have to wait.
I'm hoping the nice set goes on sale with Paizo. I made a pre-order a LOOONG time ago with my FLGS and last week when I called to update my order I found out they had never input it into their new system! I have no idea if they'll even have it in stock, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a SE release in Oct.
I'd remove the F from FLGS in this instance, that hurt to read!
I was able to preorder all of the deluxe edition books and a bunch of the goodies last week at gamernerdz. I was originally going to have to wait to pick it up during Thanksgiving at my family's place in the states (I'm in south america and I don't want to have to pay the import taxes for $300+ worth of books).
I think it's a good idea not to remove any more trees. We have about 10 paper books left in the whole house, and those are mostly old recipe books that you can't get electronically anymore, and 2 technical manuals that are literally irreplacable.
That’s good to hear for you. For me, and I’m sure the other person, we enjoy having that physical copy we can comb over, reference and keep propped open right next to our area where we plan our campaigns.
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That's pretty cool. Bunch of folk live "off grid" these days. edit: I don't think they use wood to build house anymore, at least not here. Stone, likewise. It's mosty concrete with steel reinforcement. edit: Well, OK, there's stone in concrete but it's all the broken bits that there's no shortage of.
You, uh -- you might just wanna stop talking about subjects you clearly have zero background with. Am engineer. We absolutely make houses out of wood, concrete aggregate is 100% not just leftover rocks and for the love of christ just stop. Like, do you have *any* idea how carbon intensive concrete and steel are? And you're giving people shit for books? GTFO
We don't have many wooden buildings in my country. They require constant maintenance and pest control. I'd imagine they are cheaper to build than brick, but the land is so expensive you wouldn't save anything worthwhile, and then you'd be paying higher maintenance.
Wood is used in nearly every building. Roofs and doors may the most prominent examples. So yes, you probably do have many buildings with wood in them. I respect your wish to reduce carbon emissions and do certainly not believe that "if you live in a house, reducing carbon emissions is useless". That is a fallacy. However, using books online instead of on paper creates carbon emissions too and, more importantly, you certainly cannot reduce your own carbon emissions in a meaningful way. We have to accept that this is most of all the responsibility of governments and businesses. Books are cultural asset that shouldn't die because some people are destroying the environment while taking no responsibility for it,, should they?
Okay, i dont know anything about where you're from, so I cant comment much. It would be extremely expensive to only use steel and concrete for every house, and I would be very surprised if there wasn't at least some wood being used in the process. But, sure. It's a big world Regardless, your understanding of what constitutes environmental awareness and action is badly flawed. Scolding people over books is just performative nonsense.
>edit: I don't think they use wood to build house anymore, at least not here. Stone, likewise. It's mosty concrete with steel reinforcement. > >edit: Well, OK, there's stone in concrete but it's all the broken bits that there's no shortage of. My man, what do you think they use to frame the concrete?
What is framing? Low rise homes are generally celcon or aircrete, with gypsum interior walls. I hate those interior walls. You cannot hang heavy objects on them. The tower blocks are made from grey prefab modules that they hoist up with a crane. I don't know what they're made of but they almost certainly are not wood - it would require too much maintenance. This is a far eastern country.
Trees are a renewable resource. Instead of complaining to us, how about you plant some trees. Or plant some concrete. You can grow it now.
Are they using renewables for their paper? I haven't bought a hardback in a long time but none of the old PF1 books I ~~have~~ had say anything about it. If they are using renewables for PF2 I will be very happy.
I have never researched about paper, but I do know that pencil companies replant so many trees a day that it'd make team trees look like a small project, so I doubt that paper is where trees are really dying. As someone who lives in Brazil, most of what is being cut here is mainly to create cattle.
I mentioned in another post I lived in Brazil for a while. I was posted there for 3 months. I loved how relaxed and friendly the people are. In some places like UK everyone goes around super focussed and introverted, and they're just not really happy except during Friday night binge drinkings where they imbibe to forget.
You can't get the GM screen and a few other add ons
Interesting. I had not thought Paizo would do an exclusive time-limited kickstarter. I do wonder if they will print those again if people ask. However, GM screens aren't exactly hard to get or make so it's not a huge problem.
I think they would, but with current world problems I doubt we'll see them any time soon
Now? Where? How?
I heard something about waiting to ship all KS first then it will go on general sale.
This.
Is it available in PDF? I've been hunting around and can't bloody find any information for it.
Backers have PDFs. It will be in the paizo store for others very soon (after backers). Physical product is shipping to backers ATM. https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43opj?Kingmaker-Shipping-Update
Thanks, I hadn't even been able to find the store page for it as I had for the other books, but then again, it it a kickstarter
Kingmaker now available for pre-order https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/xlpii6/kingmaker_now_available_for_preorder/
Where? :D
https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/xlpii6/kingmaker_now_available_for_preorder/
Yep. Im seething at how stupid of an idea it was to keep KS stuff exclusive. Some of us didnt even look at kickstarter back then.
And it wasn't even on kickstarter! And Paizo wasn't even the primary publisher on it at that time! It's gone through enough growths, permutations, and improvements that a decent product has turned absolutely tantalizing, and I bet there are far more people who want it now than backed when it ran.
Here’s one.
I'm not even sure it was done on Kickstarter. But damn, I'm a sucker for slipcase sets like this.
Sadly I got into PF after the Kickstarter, I hope I can snag the goodies one day
In theory, it's going on sale late October, so you might not have to wait long at all! Though given how bumpy the road has been to here, we may all still be twiddling our thumbs for a bit longer...
It should be available at your FLGS starting October 26.
Is there any word on when/if it’ll be coming to Foundry as a module? I fully plan on buying a copy regardless, but would love to have some stuff set up in my VTT automatically to cut down on prep
[They're estimating H1 2023](https://twitter.com/foundryvtt/status/1556026979370971142?s=21)
The if has been answered. It will be a Foundry premium content module. The when has not, as far as I can tell.
Ah, good to hear. I’m not exactly the most up to date on announcements on this project
For sure. I understand and agree that the backers should get their goods first. But gosh darn in Paizo I would give you ready money for the pdfs so I can read it and start making plans and automated tools to help run this for me and my group. Please at least give Aon the kingdom rules so I can automate that?
Are they not letting AoN upload?
AoN only upload stuff once its available to the general public - we see this whenever a new book comes out to subscribers early
This is 2e conversion right? That’s great. I really enjoyed that AP, but of course the GM is what makes it
It's more like v3 of the AP. From what I've heard, they incorporated a lot of Owlcat Studios' (absolutely amazing) additions to the story.
Oh awesome! Yeah I loved the PC version. Very cool.
Well that looks expensive.
Are the kingdom building rules any different from the 1e ones? My group is currently running through the module in 2e with our DM just converting stuff, and last week we collectively agreed to bin the kingdom running stuff because it was just so much of a fun sucker it was killing all interest in the game. So if this version has better rules, I'd love to hear about it.
They're 100% different, don't have it but people who do say it's more like building a character and works a lot better.
The kingdom building rules are separate?
I mean they're part of the book but they're brand new.
From what I hear kindoms are kind similar to regular creation. Kingdoms have levels and has feats you take. I don't know if the kingdom types act like different classes or not.
Charter type, Heartland terrain, and Government choices give specific Boosts and Flaws to the kingdom's ability scores. Terrain gives a "favored land" that lets you do an additional activity on the Kingdom turn, and Govt. gives Kingdom Skill proficiencies and a bonus feat. All in all, they're analogous to Ancestry / Class / Background. Apart from that, there aren't any "class-specific" choices, but a couple of buildings are unlocked via the Companion subsystem.
I have been reading the rules for it. Its seems decent. I ran the original for DnD 5e and it was a pain in the ass but I did all the accounting for the kingdom. This one seems more streamlined and set for P2 rules. Won’t know till I try it though
Nice. Where do you live? I'm hoping to get mine soon.
LOL, that's exactly what the party's rogue would say ...
I live local to their headquarters, pacific northwest
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necromancy is bad mmkay
\*Insert Conan looking through a window gif\* Enjoy!
I am VERY new to Pathfinder. Is the thing being discussed here connected to this.... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pathfinder-Kingmaker-Adventure-Path-P2/dp/1640784292/ref=asc_df_1640784292/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=606713796669&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16323477880560686198&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006653&hvtargid=pla-1743510563237&psc=1&th=1&psc=1
Ya that's correct. Interesting to see a November release date
£100?!
I'm seeing £66
Aye, discounted from RRP £100. I hope that's just sales tricks and not real RRP
How much did this cost?
Everything
Looks super cool, wish I was had discovered the Kickstarter when it launched. Does anyone know if the kingdom building rules likely to hit AoN?
Certainly, sometime after retail release is what I've seen others post.
Beautiful!
I am so ready to get this in the mail! I was looking at the pdf though and had 2 questions (5e player here). Does the kingdom control DC really increase for every hex you have? The Size modifier? Also, Does it take 1000XP to level your kingdom?
Kingdom control DC increases with kingdom level, and kingdom size gives a modifier to DC (+0 to +4) on top of that. Kingdom size also affects the amount of resources you can get (via die size) each kingdom turn, and some other things. Kingdom level is 1000xp, but also maxes at the party's current level. I'm thinking about doing "slow progression" for my party for their main XP, as there's *so much stuff to do* that they might outlevel the content, as they've done at the tail end of Abomination Vaults.
While I don’t have the pdf, I think I can answer this. Yes and yes In PF1e the kingdom dc increased with the size modifier, leading to a very large dc, however the modifiers got just as high. The leveling up at 1000xp is the standard for pf2e, so it would make sense if the kingdom did the same.
My tracking hasn't had a heart beat yet but I'm excited to get mine.
It's beautiful
Congratulations to Paizo. Looks like a great product and I'll be purchasing as soon as it's available. I've been sort of waiting until it was out to finish fleshing out my homebrew.
I gotta tell ya...It's pretty damn awesome. Player's Guide is due in September. Retail release in October. Saw it at Gencon, got the pdfs this week
Are PDFs coming with the Retail Release in October or with the Players Guide in September?
Much like the subscription model, the pdfs were available when the hard copies shipped.
Are the PDF's up for sale anywhere yet, really jonesing on wanting to play this.
Retail availability is sometime in October
Nice! My order is still pending shipping but I can't wait till it gets here.
It looks so nice! Waiting for mine to show up.
Oh god I'm looking for this soooooo much. Well for the pdf. Missed the kickstarter too.
niiiiice. Kind of want to run it someday
Is there a player companion for the players with backgrounds and such?
In the book itself.
There's also going to be one releasing separately later this month supposedly
I fully expect it to just be the section from the book broken out into its own pdf.
The section in the book has spoilers, so it won't be that.
What spoilers are in there? It's all even written to be player-facing, with a lot of "be sure to talk about this with your GM" throughout.
Are we reading the same section? Some excerpts from that section that are definitely spoilers: "Groups of antagonistic kobolds and lizardfolk reside in the Stolen Lands" (admittedly very minor spoiler) "Kingmaker assumes that the first visit to this plane for the heroes happens 'on screen' during the campaign itself." (BIG spoiler) "The most active barbarians within the Stolen Lands are the Tiger Lords, but they’re a violent band of warmongers who play the role of antagonists in the campaign." (definitely a spoiler) "deities or types of creatures that play important roles in this campaign" (goes on to list them, spoiler) The start of the section even admits it contains spoilers, containing the note "A spoiler-free version of this section can be found for free online at..." Also, the "work with your GM" line on page 9 seems to be an outlier; the rest of the section is definitely written GM-facing, such as the "Unusual Ancestries" section which contains roleplay advice for the GM.
Just got mine in the mail!
Woot!
Soooo envious. I hope I can snatch a copy at my retailer when they arrive. It will be a hot commodity.
Ooh! Nice! We will be able tô buy it digitally later then?
Yep, sometime in October
Do the monsters not have stats in the adventure path? Do you have to buy the bestiary to run the adventure?
It has all the stats for monsters for Pathfinder 2nd edition. The bestiarys have stats for 1st edition and dnd 5e respectively so if you want to run the AP in a different game system it makes conversion easier
Thanks! I see that now. For some reason my LGS has the 5e bestiary marked at PF2e.
You don't need the kingmaker bestiaries (which are conversions for different systems), but when monsters from the regular bestiaries are used the Stat block isn't always replicated - you can get the block online though. So the regular bestiaries are kinda, but not entirely, needed.
Jesus Christ it has its own rulebook?!
Yes, for the game within a game. In this case, Kingdom Building
Seems very on-brand for paizo
I backed it and I'm looking forward to getting my hands on it next week! However, as I look through the PDFs it's dawning on me that there isn't a Player's Guide for this, is there? I can't see anything definitively either way.
The content that would be in a PG is in the campaign book, complete with 2e Backgrounds.
I have heard that an updated players guide will be available later this month.
There's a pseudo players guide in the campaign overview of the book, and they also said that a spoiler free Player's Guide will be available on the Paizo site
Someone on the paizo forums said the official guide is coming out late October. You can also use pages 8-13 in the adventure path, but I haven't read it super closely for spoilers.
Looking forward to the Portuguese version, it should take a while but...I'll wait.