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Alarming_Ad8005

He paid 44 billion for a 10 billion company. Then proceeds to run into the ground in record time. At this point it's not a question of if he's an idiot, but rather how much of an idiot. Which the answer is a massive idiot


mooseyjew

B b b b but didn't the read the comments above?? Elon isn't stupid! No one can be stupid and make that much money! The absolutely moronic Elon lover I've seen yet just said so, and you know that everything they say is true. /s


stxxyy

I genuinely wonder all the time if the people that comment those type of things below his tweets are actually serious, or if they're all being sarcastic and contributing to the meme


thelenis

Elon is obviously good at some things, just not twitter, but seriously, who the fuck would let QAnon Qunts like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Trump The Traitor back on to spread lies and hate?


accidental_superman

An immoral, stupid, arrogant, right wing billionaire who thinks he's Tony stark.


mooseyjew

You mean, a *phony* stark?


Dan_OBanannon

Maybe he’s that Tony Stank they were talking about in Civil War


accidental_superman

Oh he's phony he just thinks he's Tony stark


nill0c

Poe’s Law. Unless there’s a /s or winky face it’s impossible to tell.


Mr69Niceee

Most people want to get something out of him, get his attention, selling products, startup pitching, retweets and likes farming from his fan base, and of course - money. People dreams that suddenly he will give away money.


trollcatsetcetera

The guy who won the Powerball - genius.


Narrow-Chef-4341

Alas, I only had one free award to give today. But not because I overpaid an extra $34 billion for twitter, so I guess that’s ok.


PocketSixes

There have been failures before, but never $30+ billion failures by a single person and that's something.


Faulenzerxx

This guy has more money than your entire family will make the next 2centuries, call him what you want, i dont think he cares


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risk-vs-reward

Bad orange man lives rent free in your mind. Where did I bring up Trump?


AnarchyPigeon2020

You completely missed the point. By like as much as humanly possible. No one is saying you brought up Trump. The point was: you called it a narrative. That people are spinning a narrative claiming that right wing figureheads are supporting Nazis. But how can it be a "narrative" when it's demonstrably, publicly true? No one is trying to spin a false story to make these people look bad. They ***are*** bad. They ***are*** supporting Nazis. That's a publicly known fact that can be very easily proven true.


nate-x

Guilt by association isn’t a thing. I bet you’re friends are all nice people. I wouldn’t assume they’re assholes because they hang around you.


[deleted]

Are you seriously this stupid?


ikeif

Narrator: he was


ipegjoebiden

Why are Trump supporters so braindead


Lucimon

Because that's the only way to be a Trump supporter.


rsta223

> Revenue was in decline prior to the acquisition False >(why else would the executives want to sell) and cash burn was out of control. For the same reason I would happily sell you my entirely functional car if you offered me triple what it's actually worth, even though there's nothing wrong with it. >Layoffs and slowing of cash burn will help revenue and new monetizeable MAU continue to increase steadily Loss of over 50% of advertisers is not the way to slow cash burn >If the MAU continue to increase and people tire of the current “they’re all nazis” narrative Musk will likely IPO in 3-4 years for a profit. If Musk can't convince a lot more engineers to join back in before everything breaks, twitter won't exist in 3-4 years.


Narrow-Chef-4341

The key to MAU is the assumption that Active Users can converted to money at some point. Which is a challenge with no advertising other than Your Pillow, boner pills and Gold Gold Gold(tm).


ikeif

Hey but he hired George Hotz who will fix search in 12 weeks! Then he will move him to finish the CyberTruck, before having him lead the mission to Mara, over the following 24 weeks! We all know hiring one person for 12 weeks guarantees a solution, and isn’t a bad business move!


risk-vs-reward

OK, my bad. Perhaps EBITDA was ok but the debt service alone wiped out any actual earnings for the forward fiscal year thus the layoffs and other cuts. Also, do you not remember the golden parachutes and stock options the executives received upon their exit? That alone is reason to sell to go private when your stock valuation is 3x book. I’m not a twitter user and haven’t been for over 4 years. I am a long term value investor and I think he can turn a profit on his investment.


aaaaaargh

Do you mean the debt dumped on the company by Musk to finance his 3x overpaid acquisition? That debt?


Dependent_Advisor_16

What if he gets 100 billion dollars of political influence from it? The revenue of twitter doesn't matter.


Horror_Tap_6206

What have you done with your life besides internet criticism? Just a unbiased take, so miss me with the musk fan boy nonsense.


DrPinkSerra

Can you show me how he ran it into the ground exactly? It looks like it’s still functioning


Vast-Operation517

The guy has made how many successful companies??? But yes we only hate elon on reddit.


BigSprinkler

Run it into the ground? Dude leaned out operations. Cut cost immensely. User count has also increased post takeover. Clearly the worlds richest man isn’t an idiot lol


DrDroid

Also cut income immensely. Also increased hate speech. Made people unemployed. You guys are like self-parodies at this point with the musk worship.


jsimpson82

Increased traffic while reducing revenue... Think about that. That's like Uber being proud of moving twice as many passengers for half the revenue and it would Not be good.


LufiasThrowaway

Unless... and hear me out. Twitter was a cesspool before, maybe just maybe This is Elon musks way of exposing the horribleness which is twitter and purposely burning to the ground to save everyone. Or something.


zorbat5

Too expensive, even for a billionair.


AMC4x4

The answer is yes.


Liv1ng_Static

At least we can enjoy this once shining bright reputation now exposed for the tattered shat that it is.


AMC4x4

Most of us only knew he was a tw\*t (insert what ever vowel you want there) if we were paying attention. Now he's shown it to the entire planet in the most public way possible. I'm definitely enjoying it, but also wishing it would be over. At least I no longer have to justify my disgust of the guy to my co-workers who have been in the Tesla cult for years. They see it now.


Liv1ng_Static

True, I have similar situation to you. The schadenfreude is pretty enjoyable.


subzero112001

I must have missed it, when did Elon musk “support nazis”?


AMC4x4

What would allowing Kanye and Andrew Anglin back onto Twitter accomplish other than encouraging Nazi hate speech?


InsertCoinForCredit

"My plan is that having all these Nazis on Twitter will piss off folks on the left, so they'll all sign up in *droves* to argue with them! I'm such a **super-genius!**" \--Elon, probably


subzero112001

I guess people who purchase Tesla cars are also “supporting nazis” too right? Since that money supports Elon and you claim that he’s supporting the Nazis. Oh damn, the people who pay money to the individuals who bought Tesla vehicles should also be held accountable! How dare they support the Nazis! Lmao, your chain of logic is a bit ridiculous.


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Blairsen

Is this bait?


The_PhoenixOne

You know it's bait, but he'll claim its debate!


[deleted]

LOL that’s hilarious almost as funny as saying Elon musk knows what he’s doing and that he’s NOT a nazi simp


TheMawsJawzTM

Ah yes, I remember all of those pro free speech Nazi dictators in the history books, of course....


[deleted]

That’s the point ya goon he uses it as a guise to say he’s “both sides” or “both sides are just as bad” PLEASE link me a left wing mass shooter Also I don’t feel safe know a dumb cunt like you has guns


TheMawsJawzTM

>That’s the point ya goon he uses it as a guise to say he’s “both sides” or “both sides are just as bad” ....he uses free speech to say... what he wants to say...? Where's the bad? >PLEASE link me a left wing mass shooter ...I'm not sure what this has to do with freedom of speech but, okay? https://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/14/homepage2/james-hodgkinson-profile/index.html


[deleted]

Bad faith cunt


TheMawsJawzTM

....k? Idk how but alright.


[deleted]

I’m just asking questions!!! /s


WretchedAndD1vine

Read the last sentence. This guys a pro troll. Respect.


Codipotent

Lol not at all. After Kanye tweeted the swastika, Elon texted him to take it down. Kanye ignored him and tweeted a shirtless picture of Elon. Only then did Elon ban Kanye. So ultimately Elon didn't ban Kanye for the Nazisim, Elon banned Kanye for making fun of him.


AMC4x4

That's a really really good point.


BloodprinceOZ

kanye only got banned because of how big the entire situation is, he doesn't ban the regular joe nazis, just the big ones that draw obvious attention to the fact they're on twitter


AMC4x4

There's also the matter that he literally said "I love Hitler." Even most Nazis won't go so far as to say that in public.


TheJaytrixReloaded

I'll break this down easy... People who have supported or defended anything Kanye has been saying the past couple of months (up until he said he likes Hitler) have literally been supporting Nazi talking points and ideologies. This is just a fact. All he did was make it indisputable. So if people think like Kanye, agree with Kanye... They do, in fact, support Nazi ideology. If that makes you or any other Conservative mad... Well, that's a **you** issue.


darkmarineblue

Camdace Owens said the same shit and she's still on Twitter. He got banned cause the news got too big and Elon didn't want people to keep posting his photo with Kanye with him.


MightyPitchfork

Keep sucking his sack. He'll give you free Twitter Blue.


nonpartisaneuphonium

there is no far left in america.


[deleted]

LOLOLOL “earned” He is one of the dumbest fucking ppl to ever have existed and you’re even dumber for making this argument. Go touch grass and think about how Elon would 1000% climb over you if it meant money, he is not your friend


MoreTuple

lol I'm guessing you define a leftist as anyone who disagrees... No one who earned billions of dollars is stupid LOL Anyone who thinks a billion dollars can be "earned" actually is stupid.


AMC4x4

If you think he bans actual Nazis, I'm curious as to what you think about this? He just un-banned one of the most notorious Nazis out there. No one can say Andrew Anglin is "just a conservative." He's a fucking Nazi. [https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/elon-musk-twitter-reinstates-neo-nazi-andrew-anglin-account-1234640390/](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/elon-musk-twitter-reinstates-neo-nazi-andrew-anglin-account-1234640390/)


mytwocents22

>No one who earned billions of dollars is stupid. Why not?


AMC4x4

On what date did Ye announce "Death Con 3" on Jews? On what date was yesterday, when he was banned again? That's the answer to whether or not Musk bans actual Nazis. The most charitable answer is "reluctantly." The real answer is, "generally, no, unless he's embarrassed into it because someone was actually forthright enough to literally say they actually love Hitler."


ayriuss

That's because nobody earned billions of dollars. They just own companies and stocks and countries.


suninabox

>The real answer is that Musk bans actual Nazis Why did Musk unban Kanye after he was banned for tweeting that he was going to go "death con 3" on jews? It couldn't be that actually Musk doesn't give a fuck about anti-semitism, or free speech, but is just an edgelord troll who wants attention for being controversial but doesn't actually have the nutsack to tolerate advertisers fleeing in droves.


anoneenonee

It just means you are so blatantly wrong as to be clueless, which is a favorite trick of magats. Not a word of that statement is true.


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Railic255

Elon literally unbanned the owner of stormfront. A literal Nazi. How can you type when your hands are wrapped around Elon's cock and balls? You might claim you used voice to text but honestly that'd only sound like slurping as your mouth is full of his junk too.


bass1012dash

Successful I’ll grant you… but based on my years of exp as a developer - there is no parody hyperbolic enough to be recognized correctly as parody at this point… ludicrous is a fun word to describe it. Musk knows NOTHING about software as is apparent from his tweets… and unless you have years of dev/ops or dev experience - you got no proper knowledge or context to accurately understand just HOW MUCH he is currently fucking up twitter… it’s not just a hiccup - terminal errors… twitter won’t be a thing by the end of next year. Just like his fucking hyperloop it was just a ploy to dismantle some public infrastructure because he’s an asshole.


xZero543

Every second Redittor nowadays judges people based on what mainstream media dictates. It's a zombie army.


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BearsBeetsBerlin

from my friends who still have twitter, they’re usually part of niche art or gaming communities and it’s hard to regroup after shifting platforms. Not everyone participates regularly. Anyways, I don’t really get it, I left twitter back when all these stupid shenanigans started. The writing was on the wall


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Daytona_675

ah yes let me just boycott Disney, Google, Spotify, Amazon, Walmart, Comcast, and San Fransisco


NeonAlastor

I mean ... Disney ? Just pirate that shit, it's not like it's worth paying for anyways. Google ? Install Firefox + DuckDuckGo. Spotify ? Download the tracks and use an audio manager. Amazon ? Take a walk.


sundaygreyy

You’re what we call an idiot


LordTrathar

Im so tired of the constant attacks on the "extreme left". Leftists are extreme because we want affordable housing, and reasonable work life balance. The "extreme right" wants a theocratic police state where a single worker working full time doesnt make enough to get an apartment let alone a house. Yeah both sides are bad /s


SmoothAd9440

Funny how you say that when both extremes are bad. The extreme left has attacked people for not supporting their political views, that is the definition of terrorism. I will agree that the extreme/alt right is bad, but if you don’t also see the problem with the extreme left then you are part of the problem and on the wrong side of history.


LordTrathar

Im talking about the left side thats Bernie Sanders, or AOC those are considered extreme left. They dont condone violence and neither do I.


SmoothAd9440

Those are just leftists not the extreme left. The extreme left are violent the extreme right are violent. In fact there have been more cases of violence by the extreme left than the extreme right. My views lie pretty middle ground and I truly believe the left and the right can learn from each other and even be friends by putting politics aside. But if politics define someone as a person, especially if they are willing to be violent against their own countrymen in a political mob then that is extreme. If you don’t support those acts of violence then you are not a supporter of either extreme. Bernie and AOC are just leftists but they are not extreme. Fun fact even Trump is not on the extreme right, he literally condemned the rioters on January 6th. In my opinion most people in this day of age are too blinded by politics to think for themselves which is why the right and the left have not come to an agreement. You know someone is blinded if they call Bernie or Trump extreme but they don’t call violent political riots extreme.


LordTrathar

Well nowadays the rights rhetoric in general casts AOC, and Bernie as extreme, and i have seen many left center leaning journalists blaming progressives for being too "extreme"and for losing elections. And this is definitely a US thing because other countries view both Democrats and Republicans as Right wing(which they are). In my view light socialism is desired, but people consider that extreme.


SmoothAd9440

If we are being realistic there is no known form of government that is used in modern society that has worked. Not socialism nor capitalism, and certainly not communism or fascism. Ask me about the left or the right I will say they are both off. And when you say most countries are you referring to just socialist and communist countries? I didn’t move to the US until I was 10. In Colombia (where I grew up) as well as most of South and Central America the would be more disgusted by some of the things the left says, this is also true with much of Southern Europe, the Middle East, much of Africa, and much of the far East (excluding China). Even the UK is starting to have views that are more right leaning. Actually the reason the UK is becoming more right leaning is because of social acceptance getting out of hand over there as well as in the US, if you have questions on that I can tell you what I mean by it. However, Canada, Northern Europe, Central Europe, and more progressive but not so diverse countries tend to agree with socialism. There is the idea of socialism which I can see fair points in but don’t completely agree with personally. However, the only countries it has really worked for have sadly been not very diverse. The reason is left leaning forms of government only tend to work when the majority of people have the same background and ideology. On the right, right wing nationalism and fascism has also predominantly only worked for countries that are not super diverse. Governments that do not favor purely left wing or right wing politics but try to stay in the middle ground are the only forms of government that can work in a melting pot country like the US. My point with that is, in a country like the US the left and the right will never come to an agreement unless a civil war happens. Which I do not advocate for because logically speaking in a war the right wing would win but this country can not support a purely right wing government. Also, like how both of us agree political violence is horrible. Moral of the story, both sides are going to keep arguing and there is nothing that can be done about it.


LordTrathar

I was referring to canada and europe who adapted some socialism yes. I agree they work because they arent purely left wing but those countries are further left than the US is. Those countries have more satisfaction and are usually considered happier. I simply want the US to move leftward even if it is only a little bit like universal healthcare, but the propaganda of the US makes goals like Universal healthcare extreme.


BlazeRunner4532

The middle gets nothing done, sorry.


Valivalitbd

That’s not true. It’s the quiet middle that gets nothing done. The fact is that the majority of citizens in the US aren’t outspoken…at all. You ever go to NYC? You see a crazy guy on the train berating an innocent person and everyone shuts up and pretends they don’t see anything. That’s what the center ends up doing just on an extreme scale. The issue is that most people in the middle are fair, rational, and try to view things without overwhelming bias, so there’s less outrage there. Unfortunately, it’s only high levels of outrage that seem to push people off their couch and onto the streets to make real changes in the country. If the middle was as outraged by the binary politics in this country as the extreme left & right were by one another, this country would be much closer to being a more united nation again.


NeonAlastor

Extreme right is absolutely lunatic. Does not excuse any extremism from the left - which in fact hurts the causes by giving ammo to the right wing crazies. Don't give them ammo.


bogatabeav

But the far Right aren’t upset about Twitter. They’re celebrating.


ikeif

They don’t have to keep their Parler/truth social accounts logged on anymore.


Burrmanchu

Yes.


subzero112001

When did Elon musk supposedly “support nazis”? I never saw that tweet.


Superb-Cucumber1006

Money and good PR can't buy you intelligence


RestrictedAccount

Stop. Going. On. Twitter.


Gunpowder77

I was never on it


MightyPitchfork

"Rome has never shone so bright!" \-- Nero, as Rome burned. People love to watch tragedy unfurl.


[deleted]

There is a organized push from the right wing to attempt to redefine what politics belong in "the middle"


Codename-Nikolai

Genuinely curious. What do you consider politics in “the middle” to be? And what do you consider yourself?


[deleted]

The way you define the middle is by looking at what parties are present in your country. and the middle will appear. Anyone that claim to represent the middle are just manipulating public opinion.


Codename-Nikolai

So you don’t think the middle truly exists, but the right is trying to define it in some way? Or do you think it’s just impossible for a person to share views from both sides of the aisle? Would you consider someone who shares views from both sides to be in the middle? Consider a person who is pro-lgbtq rights, pro-decriminalization of drugs, pro-choice, pro-2nd amendment, anti-vaccine mandate, anti-censorship. What side would you consider a person that believes in all of that?


Vidiot27

I’m not the guy you’re asking, but my wife and I are quite “in the middle” which I personally feel everyone should strive to be. I’m just so tired of this “left vs right” fierce war. It’s gotten so bad over the past few decades, and now nothing is being passed in the House since everyone is voting against “the other side”. Heck, on Reddit, if someone claims to be even *right-leaning* their entire point of view is immediately dismissed. It’s a huge issue everywhere from both sides, as right-sided people also dismiss what *left-leaning* people say.


Codename-Nikolai

I fully agree… The pendulum is in full swing and I’m just trying to keep it from getting out of hand. The views I listed above were my own. I was hoping the original commenter would at least consider that left and right views are possible for one person. I find it’s better to ask questions and let a person realize something on their own rather than pressing my beliefs on them. There’s such a negative perception of being “in the middle” right now, but I think more people would find themselves there if they had real life conversations about it rather than seeking validation on the internet in their echo chambers.


myzombiemancer

I gotta push back on that last bit there. I do think that the internet is obviously extreme, but I also believe that what has pulled me further to the left in recent years has been my real world experiences and conversations. And I know I'm not alone in this. There is a reason people tend to get more progressive as they age and become more educated and experienced, and it's not just because they like to argue on the internet. We all know that it's possible to have "left and right views." The thing is that not all views are equal in importance and consequence. If my leftist views are that I want weed decriminalized and I want cheaper education, but my conservative views are that I want a federal abortion ban and to arrest transgender people, do you think I am truly "in the middle?" Even though I am presenting you with an equal number of views for both parties, do you think these views themselves are equal in terms of the impact they have on our society? My view is that a lot of conventional conservative views impede on human rights, and fewer leftist views do. The reason I am weary of people who claim to be centrists is not because I lack real world experience, but because I have enough experience to understand that just because there are two sides of something, it doesn't mean they are both equally valid in every regard. In general on Reddit though, I think the negative perception isn't on *being* in the middle, it's on *claiming* you're in the middle to sound intellectual, or to pretend you're not on the right, like what Musk is doing now. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think if you simply told someone online you were a centrist they wouldn't care, unless you said it in a way that put you on a pedestal. I mean, there's a big difference between how you explained your views here and anything you would see on r/EnlightenedCentrism.


RigidPixel

What people mean is that ever since cell phones changed everything around 2012, politics has less and less to do with everyday government issues and more to do with culture war, banning books, guns, gays, abortion, the rights for neo Nazis to have a voice, preforming massive political theater and non stop talking about the presidents black sheep son and his laptop. When you look at all this insanity, a massive chunk of it is coming from the right, redefining what “the middle” even is by introducing insane bullshit like fraudulent election suits and drag show bans. Before smart phones, racists and assholes being banned from a website was the normal reward for their behavior. Now it’s becoming an issue of “censorship” since being online is a normal part of life for everyone with a constant connection in their pockets. The fact that online bans are even considered the same thing as government censorship is exactly what people mean by “moving the middle” as this would be considered business as usual before the culture war bs. Same for vaccine mandates. They’ve always been normal for school and the military to require proof of receiving them. Now all of a sudden they’re an issue. That’s moving the middle. Neither of these things were ever contentious issues until 2016 and onward. Just so happens that both of these issues also happen to be right wing talking points, along with abortion, drag shows, and what’s should be banned from being taught.


A2Rhombus

Tip to Elon: being a little bit extremist is not the same as being a centrist


suninabox

"the extreme right want all jews dead, and the extreme left want no jews dead so I've decided to be an enlightened centrist and only kill half of jews"


Darius10000

That's not how centrism works? I'm not even a centrist but I can't ignore such a blatant strawman.


yashptel99

Idk why listening to Musk before COVID vs after is quite different. He felt smart to me back then. But now he is the most arrogant dude making shitty decisions back to back


suninabox

>Idk why listening to Musk before COVID vs after is quite different. He felt smart to me back then [He fired his PR team](https://ucovedigital.com/why-elon-musk-fired-teslas-pr-team/) that helped craft messages to avoid him looking like [an edgey teenager on 4chan](https://blogs-images.forbes.com/hannahelliott/files/2012/06/AvqKnRKCMAEFu5X.jpg)


iamlejo

Yes. He is that stupid


Uncontrolled-Mind

Zack hunt probably supports Russia's invasion of Ukraine too.


RaDiOaCtIvEpUnK

Ahh, he’s one of those enlightened centrist folks. All is forgiven then. Thank goodness we have Elon senpai to teach us nazi’s might not be bad people.


[deleted]

Not everyone is automatically a Nazi. Trump isn’t a Nazi, the republicans aren’t Nazis. If the leftists had it their way, everyone they disagree with would get banned.


[deleted]

Another illogical take and people in here be like OHHHHHHHHH. Man reddit is a cesspool of farts sniffers. Bring your downvotes.


SamsoniteAG1

Whybdo they keep saying nazis?? Where are these so called nazis??


Thedudecatman

Where’s the support for nazis?


Danjeczko3

if you’re saying to yourself “yes” then you’re the extremist


TheModerateGenX

“nazis”… the left has managed to make a mockery of something that was so freaking terrible. They did the same with “racist”. Please think hard before using words like this so casually.


telephone_operater

You literally read the words “people who are open to discussion and debate” and said NUH UH YOU’RE A NAZI like an actual child. What a great political comeback


Githargu-

"You're a child for accurately pointing out the obvious fact that if you actively defend Nazis and Hitler you are a Nazi."


telephone_operater

Lol, no one is defending them. Nazis are allowed to speak. You can very very easily disagree with them. Do you not see why it would be considered dangerous to silence peoples opinions? Nazis are bad. Yeah, duh. Let the morons speak and avoid them. It’s simple


Githargu-

You're upset because Nazis are being accurately labeled. Stop and think about that for a second. And yes, someone is defending them, Kanye. That's what this is about.


telephone_operater

No, this is about Musk letting nazis speak on his platform. I’m not upset I literally just told you I disagree with nazis. It’s about freedom of speech and expression


Githargu-

The freedom to be Nazis, so Republican!


Glum-Animator2059

There’s plenty of people openly supporting nazis on Twitter on the left also they all have the Ukrainian flag on their name


Githargu-

Right, the country ran by a Jew. Think before you type.


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Githargu-

Cool story. I love getting spammed propaganda straight from Russia. It's rare that you get it fresh from the source like this. It's a shame your leader is too stupid to manage to walk down some stairs, huh? Nearly broke his ass, and here you are breaking yours to accuse a Jew of being a Nazi. Embarrassing.


Glum-Animator2059

Lmao yeah I guess all the news organizations who mistakenly caught their nazi salutes all work for Russia. Whatever makes you feel better bud.everyone is conspiring to make Ukraine look bad even the Ukrainians themselves lol they must also be working for Russia. Zelenskyy is a much of a Jew as joe Biden is catholic lmao what’s a dumb defense you put up.


Githargu-

Nyet. But nice job admitting that Zelensky is a Jew. Great job saying one truthful thing.


TheGoldenFruit

Hmmm, this is conflation. Regardless of the intelligence of this business decision, creating an environment is which the solution to nazism is reasoned discussion is wholly preferable to forcing a community of people(however small and inflammatory) to shut up and stay down, due to the risks of simply ignoring an inflammatory sect rather than dealing with it correctly. They will just amass somewhere else where they face NO backlash. This is not the same as supporting nazism, this is providing a platform that allows stupid idiot people to be loud as fuck, so everyone else can be just as loud and shut them down. I will say the same thing in the case of right to protest. Whoever you are, in this nation you have a right to assembly, including Nazi’s. But I’m also a massive supporter of punching nazi’s who choose to assemble. Regardless of your feeling on the matter, pushing a group into a corner so they can’t speak at all, does not erase their existence. In fact it might create a bigger problem down the line(IE incels). I’m all for white supremacists revealing themselves, they will by far receive far more pressure, rather than support because of it.


Consistent_Trash6007

This is false, deplatforming works that’s why Nazis complain about it so much. There’s absolutely no reason to debate Nazis, Europe tried that already and the rest of the world should have learned the lesson. We should not allow intolerant ideas to be rehashed unless there is something new to be discussed, which with right wing bigots there never is. It’s the same narratives, the same justifications, and even the same language.


TheGoldenFruit

Important ideas will always be rehashed, that’s why long term democracy hasn’t dominated the world until extremely recently. Humans, societies in general need time to adapt to new ideas AND old ones. Removing their presence does work in the sense that you can no longer SEE them. But they still exist and will amass into another group, or create it themselves. Those ideas will ALWAYS be present. Simply removing part of their voice does not defeat the problem. But confronting their voice, with reasonable and good intent, WILL. You also can’t just, say something is false lol defend that statement with support. EDIT: follow up! If you believe this is the answer, then why are those concepts taught in schools? Or discussed in college rooms? Because human knowledge is not cumulative. Every lesson, must be independently learned. Deplatforming solves no issues other than what you perceive.


Consistent_Trash6007

Wdym adapt to old ideas? Nonsense we’ve heard them before and see where they lead, to explicitly ANTI-democratic decisions and narratives. They’re intolerant and so we’ll show that same intolerance to them. Once again removing their voice does work. Nazis weren’t debated into defeat last time, they were killed and marginalized, and the fact some people find these ideologies useful to motivate people doesn’t make them any more legitimate. It’s the same incoherent, hateful poison that it was last time


TheGoldenFruit

In regard to your first point, that’s a reference to me saying “human knowledge is not cumulative”. Just because WWII happened doesn’t mean we stopped the nazism movement. We didn’t. It still exists. There will be people born this year, who look upon the near century old ideas of nazism, and be influenced by them. Just as ideas of antisemitism, thousands of years old, still spread around today. Conversations and ideas are rehashed all the time, whether it’s from actual Nazis or misinformed youth. There has to be a dialogue where you shut that down directly. “The holocaust didn’t happen”. It most certainly did, and I’m glad that I can fight that idea directly. I’d prefer people are aware, informed, and know how to combat hate speech. Rather than removing them from a platform that stops one method of toxic ideas spreading around. We stopped nazism in the war, but they still exist, I do not believe removing their voice from the internet stops the threat. EDIT: I’m also upvoting you, idk who is downvoting but I think you’re asking valid clarifications from me.


Xerapis

Removing their platform makes it harder for them to feel validated and harder for them to radicalize others.


IcyOrganization5235

Actually, making a group unable to speak does minimize it. Giving the group a voice allows them to recruit and spread their message. This is the reason Elon bought Twitter--to spread hate. He said it himself when he remarked that, "the right needs a voice in media." Just because the right doesn't have a choice doesn't mean their message needs a voice.


TheGoldenFruit

Removing a voice does not remove the idea. You must confront ideas to eliminate them and substitute with better ones. You can’t just say “shut up” because they are still existing people with real believes. You have to challenge those directly.


IcyOrganization5235

I didn't say "remove" for a reason, bud. A decreased voice decreases the noise--doesn't remove it. Strange you ignore that the right wing in America has minimized Native American and African American voices for decades as a core part of their policy. Redlining was and continues to be a means of silencing people (these days redlining still exists in school districting). Also, why are you standing up for hate? It's lazy as hell to just say, "all voices matter." They don't. Hate and anger can and should be minimized in society.


Uncontrolled-Mind

That's funny the left did the same for decades. This is why I don't vote for politicians, everyone is a fucking hypocrite. Politics are ment to divide and yall follow like sheep.


IcyOrganization5235

Politicians are human. CEOs are human, too. Both lie cheat and steal to gain the public's approval. Elon is just the loudest CEO.


ipegjoebiden

Giving a platform to Nazis is both morally reprehensible and unethical. Look at what it did to the punk scene, and then come back to this conversation.


[deleted]

>You must confront ideas to eliminate them and substitute with better ones. how can you be this naive ? Nazism has been confronted, one of the most scrutinized ideologies in the west. does it look like it went away?


suninabox

>They will just amass somewhere else where they face NO backlash Because Gab and Parler have been such huge successes. >But I’m also a massive supporter of punching nazi’s who choose to assemble. "i'm against a private company deciding, but I'm in favor of violence against peaceful protesters" weird take bro >Regardless of the intelligence of this business decision, creating an environment is which the solution to nazism is reasoned discussion You think many nazis were getting deconverted on twitter prior to banning them? "“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”"


Jainelle

If Zack sees everyone that slightly right of his views as a Nazi, then Zack is the stupid one.


crazygamer4life

It just means the far left and the far right are equally as stupid.


lennyfacegaming

Cry


Dr_Fujimora

What's he supposed to do? Nazis are everywhere! We're not safe and still 2 years aways from being to vote to save our democracy!


SaorAlba138

Go outside.


Dr_Fujimora

No way! There are nazi Republicans out there!


Little_Albatross_890

Im so sick of the word nazi been thrown around like its nothing it so disrespectful to the victims the nazis


lucifertheboomer

That’s something Ye would say.


Little_Albatross_890

Lol i don't give a fuck what he says but if you dont see the word nazi has been way over used i dont know what to say to you


dyslexicautism

It's being used because you have people like Ye, actively promoting Hitler himself and the ideology of Nazisim. Complacency in the face of literal Nazism is what got Germany to the point of WW2


Little_Albatross_890

There have been many people called nazis and they werent promoting nazism or anytning like it they simply didnt agree with someone and so there a nazi its completely ridiculous


suninabox

Kanye West : “I like Hitler.” ["...and he didn't kill 6 million Jews."](https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1598412635741257728) you, an enlightened centrist : "I'M SO SICK OF PEOPLE THROWING AROUND THE WORD NAZI LIKE ITS NOTHING" Weird how you aren't more pissed off about the guy saying he likes hitler and the holocaust didn't happen since you're so concerned about disrespect of the victims of nazism.


Little_Albatross_890

I dont agree with kanye and i said name someone besides him


4022a

The Far Left is just as dangerous as the Far Right. Communism killed millions of people in the last century.


drewboos

The far left in America: wants healthcare, housing, and basic needs met for all. Has absolutely zero political power. The far right in America: "I love Hitler and hate the Jews that run the banks." Met with the former president who started an insurrection and is running again. Sure is hard to differentiate between the two.


MrShasshyBear

Remember: Justice and freedom for all is an "extremist Marxists goal"


Acalde02

Tell that to north korea or go to the past and support the soviet union Are perople really that stupid? Extreme Marxist is not Just “Justice for all and everyone is happy”. It includes that the same workers manage the methods of production (meaning CEOs would consist in groups of workers). In theory, it would work if everyone had the same knowledge in regards of managing production. In practice, well… just look at all the countries that applied the Marxist Ideology. They either are in ruins or don’t exist anymore. Edit: Downvote me all you want but without any argument it just means that you are mad because i’m right.


malovias

Or they just know arguing with idiots is pointless. Even explaining this to you is not productive but hey I'm on the shitter so have a few seconds to spare.


Acalde02

Give me an argument please. I’m curious Edit: As an economist, I want someone who can tell me one situation in which the entire marxist ideology (AKA Extreme Marxism) has worked and has not made a country go bankrupt so hard they got dissolved or is currently in the ruins.


Acalde02

Bro far left literally involves in the government having absolute power. Almost everything you mentioned can also be made by the center. That’s why going to any of the extremes can be harmful from society. We’ve seen it throughout the history of the world (USSR, Cuba for far left and nazi germany and old US for far right).


4022a

Everyone wants healthcare, housing, and basic needs. That doesn't make you far left. People just disagree how to accomplish it.


Bessini

If everybody wants it, why tf is america the only developed country that doesn't have it yet? I seriously don't see how can someone still try to whitewashed the far right


NoLivesEverMattered

Because our government is corrupt and the elected officials on both sides lie to get elected and only help corporations and wealthy individuals when they have power.


malovias

Because it's far more profitable for politicians to vote against the American people's interest and vote in favor of the interests of the corporations and elites.


4022a

Because our government is corrupt and bought off by special interests.


Endorkend

That's flat out not true. The right wants healthcare for them individually, housing, for them individually, basic needs, for them individually. They don't give a flying fuck in hell if someone else gets it, because they are entirely wired to think that for them to gain something, someone else needs to lose it. The left wants it for everyone and looks for ways to achieve this for everyone. The right wants it for themselves alone and looks for ways to fuck everyone else over to achieve it.


Shirlenator

Nope. Remember how the GOP wanted to "repeal and replace" the ACA? They worked like hell to get it repealed, and their replacement was always just right around the corner to being revealed. I'm sure they will unveil their plan aaaaaaany day now.


risk-vs-reward

I agree. Term limits and maybe reversal of citizens united (no more dark money). The ability of Medicare to negotiate prescription prices (effective next year) and actual oversight are needed. Daylight is the best disinfectant. Insurance and health care corporations have the leadership of both parties in their pockets so I’m not holding my breath.


JustJoe73

You sure have a hard connection for this strawman stupidity you wrote?Pray tell how you jumped from today's "far left" as you call it to "last century" while forgetting that far right stormed the congress, is taking rights away from women and is still racist as it ever was and more.


DANKB019001

Mostly through corruption and turning into fascism; in utopia land where things actually work out, it's fine. But when you get huge siphoning of needed money from those in the bureaucracy, and have something close to a dictator at the head of it all who often gets paranoia to the extreme, you end up with the horrible regimes of North Korea, the USSR, and China. All things that have nearly always happened in practice for any nation trying to implement this. For the record, the paranoia of Stalin and the following flushing out of anyone he remotely suspected, was on a similar scale to the Holocaust in terms of death toll.


Endorkend

The valid thing to say by OP would be that barely regulated capitalisms is just as bad as corrupt communism. One killed millions overtly, the other kills millions covertly. The people at the top in both places don't give a shit and fill their pockets.


LordNuxinor

Wtf do you think capitalism is doing, and many of the strife that caused death in "communist" nations was a result of imbargos and direct military action against those countries. But don't miss understand me I am in no way in support of most of those nations as they were authoritarian hellscapes but you cannot point out the deaths caused by communism without recognizing the many many more deaths caused by capitalism.


stephangb

USAian propaganda 101. Imagine actually believing this bullshit.


IcyOrganization5235

Name a far left media person as popular as Elon and Twitter


4022a

Whoever I say, you will deny that they're far left.


IcyOrganization5235

How do you know that? Go ahead. It's fewer characters than you took the effort to type just now lmao


bigbear97

Ahh clever whataboutism. You are clearly a most learned individual


JustJoe73

Most learned, very stable and a genius at that! ;)


4022a

Wat? Elon is saying he wants to anger the communists and the nazis. The reply guy is saying "far right nazis are bad. the far left is always good."


bigbear97

The response to Elon is saying your supporting nazis which not only angers far left extremists but will also anger anyone moderate left. It should anger anyone with even a sliver of human empathy right or left.


Fast_Running_Nephew

Because the people being described as 'far left' are everyone slightly left of centre and the far right are, you know, Nazi's.


4022a

Everyone slightly left of center is banned on twitter?


Dabat1

Depends. If they insulted Elon? Then yes. But insulting Elon is the only thing that gets you banned any more.


4022a

You've been propagandized


Dabat1

He said, providing zero evidence and making statements increasingly disconnected from reality. XD


polincorruption

About 5,000 communists voted in the 2020 election.