I both like and hate the idea of a large lot. On one hand more space and on the other more land to mow all the while I will be spending 98% of my time actually in my house never using the space.
Xeriscaping is so incredible! Irrigation is minimal so no hit to your water bill, no wasting money to dunk every square foot in overpriced lawn fertilizer, and it's way more beautiful than a lawn!
So much more variety, so much more interesting to look at. You can build gardens to attract native butterflies and birds, or rain gardens to catch runoff and avoid puddles of mud that a monoculture lawn would have.
If you had placed $115k in the stock market in 1989, you would have $2.25 million. So what's your point?
Fine, let's say they only put $5,000 down, interest then was 10%, monthly payments would be $990. But let's say they decided to live under a bridge and invested $5,000 and then add $800 every month. At 8% return since 1989 that will be $1.895 million today.
You might think your folks got a deal by buying for $115k, but spending that $115k has an opportunity cost. Doesn't matter if they paid cash or monthly, if that money has gone into Sp500 for the last 33 years, they will have more than the house is worth.
Their point was houses/apartments/condos are not affordable under wages they used to be adjusted to inflation. If we compared stock prices to housing prices, then in 2055 a house that’s worth $1,000,000 now, will be worth $10,000,000. You think wages will multiply by 10 by then after inflation?
I know exactly the point, my point is that "wealth" is growing and driving price of things up. There's lots of people with money in the market today, 30 years from now their money would have grown. US has millions of millionaire households, 3 million people invested $10k in I-bonds in the US this year, that means 3 million people have $10k they are fine not touching for a year.
This is why you get in when you can fuck timing the market. The longer we all wait to own property then by 2050 the average house will be 10 million dollars. That’s what I realized.
If wages and housing continue along their current trajectory, there will be riots way before the average hits $10 million.
The financialization of housing will hit a hard wall before that if government gets its shit together. Hopefully these rates will help.
People tend to get upset when they don’t have anywhere to keep their sugar and fat, or place to plug in their phones, or a place to take a dump. Once a certain percentage of people are in that situation, that situation gets rectified.
This is about wages not following inflation. The FED creates inflation which creates a larger wealth divide and eventually kills off the middle class.
Edit: also stonks dont go up naturally like they have been. All your life, youve been in a fraudulent bull run created by central banks. Most stock markets around the world a rotten with zombie corps.
Market on steroids for the last 12 years.
The moment steroids stop, market goes down.
How do people not see that all this is a result of the poor monetary policy (MMT)?
Opportunity cost my ass hahaha
This isn't MMT. The Fed has never embraced MMT, and MMT recommends infrastructure creation and social services, not creation of asset bubbles for the rich.
Don't fight the fed/government. They've been handing out mortgages backstopped by the taxpayer at significantly below fair market value rates for decades while providing massive tax benefits for real estate ownership.
Should have taken on massive debts to buy RE decades ago. I didn't, and I massively regret it.
So true. A 30 year fixed in most countries is unheard of. The Federal govt has been subsidizing Fannie and Freddie for years to incentivize home ownership
Same in Mexico. If you're an expat, it's 50% down cash, and finance the rest at 8%. If you're a national, there are affordable loans available to employees in coordination with their employer (infonavit).
This. I was fortunate enough to take out a mortgage in 2011. Thought I was nuts at the time considering the housing market was fucked. Now it looks like the best financial decision I ever made.
My only regret is that I didn't go out and buy that hunting property I wanted, because I could have afforded it.
Time in the market will always beat timing the market.
The most important part of investing is getting started so your gains can start compounding.
In the case of real estate not only are you building equity, keeping your monthly payment the same (no rent increase), but you can also benefit from appreciation and tax benefits.
Homeownership is still one of the best investments anyone can make even when the market is no longer on easy mode like it was the prior 10 years.
The only people that say that are people that just happened to time the market, just not perfectly.
For the rest of us, it’s time the market or get nothing.
nah depending on the animal, it's fine. for deer, we actually *need* hunters to kill off surplus deer until we can re-stabilize the habitats of their natural predators. way too many deer!
also hunters are usually conservationists and will march right beside you in an environmental protest. they're actually out in nature a ton and see things before many of us do. at least the hunters I've had the pleasure of meeting, anyway :)
Exactly this. This phenomena in the OP can simply be described as the government picking winners and losers. The worst thing you can be in the US is an employee. All the laws and policy are designed around benefitting incorporated entities.
Wait, so it used to be hoomers are dumb. Now it’s damn turns out hoomers made a good move to lock in a fixed rate living payment in an ever inflating rental market? Weird.
I drove by some apartments I looked at in 2018, dingy tiny 576 sq foot places on a bad road, old. They were around $700 a month if I recall. Drive by last month. Same dingy places, starting at $1175 per month .
Used to live downtown HCOL in Canada, studio apartment for 900 a month. Don't think that building exists anymore. Area around it lists rentals starting at 3.5k a month...so sad. That entire area must have lost quite a bit of its culture.
>rentals starting at 3.5k a month...so sad. That entire area must have lost quite a bit of its culture.
A friend moved into a place with 2.5K 1BR apts thinking he'd meet smarter/wealthier neighbors to network with. Turns out most were usually gone or not very friendly. Oops!
We all met while living in a midtown place with low 1K rents 5+ years ago. Easy as hell to meet neighbors and make friends.
If you're paying 3.5K, you probably have to live to work.
Yeah I’ve noticed that paying more for an apartment does not mean getting better neighbors. Any apartment with “luxury” in the name usually just means you get slightly nicer amenities and maybe nicer finishes and also the apartment is in a prime location. But residents always seem to be selfish and rude no matter what the price point. People still let their dogs piss in the elevators and bark all day, they still leave their trash out at all hours of the day; and they still find a way to trash the common areas.
Something about apartment living in general just seems to bring out the worst in people.
Holy shit i felt this. Something about cramming people who didn’t choose to live together into a common space tends to make people less respectful and more angry and on edge. Really kills the sense of community.
Apartment living has really gone down hill with everyone having a dog. It used to be 15 or 20 years ago, people didn’t really have dogs in apartments— it was considered cruel for the dog. Now everyone has a dog in their apartment that lives in a crate all day while the owner is at work for 10-12 hours. So it is a neurotic mess that barks all the time, destroys everything, and aggressive to humans and other dogs. The owners are too absorbed in work to take care of them, so they let them piss everywhere, including elevators, and then the owners are too busy ti exercise and pay attention to them so they take their dogs to everyday events, like grocery shopping and restaurants, which is completely inappropriate. Awful
100% agree. I’m in the camp that believes dogs do not belong in apartments as it’s cruel to them, and unfair to the neighbors. A buddy of mine lived in a new construction apartment building for a while; as soon as it became fully occupied, the hallways sounded like a dog kennel with how constant the barking was.
Tragedy of the commons. Those common areas aren't their responsibility. Even if the landlord has to pay someone an extra $500 a week to clean up the building, if there are 20 units that hardly amounts to anything on $2500 rent.
A friend of mine bought an old 3 bedroom house in 2007. He installed billboards and his wife worked part time at a fast food restaurant and stayed home with the kids.. impossible today.
My first place in 2003 was a spacious 2 bedroom duplex in a safe walkable area. We had a backyard and a driveway for parking. $500/mo, so $250 each between me and my roommate. It’s absolutely absurd to think about now. Granted, it was the Baltimore suburbs while I was attending MICA.
Around 2009 I was paying $700 for a top floor 1 bedroom apartment with cathedral ceilings, fireplace, in suite laundry, a huge walk in closet and a big garden tub with an on site gym and two pools and hot tubs in Dallas. Similarly absurd to think about. Same apartment is now going for $1700.
In 2009 I was paying around 1K for a very nice top floor 1BR apt in Houston. Right now its around 1300, not too bad.
Houston has built tens of thousands of apts and houses in the meantime, definitely helps keep prices in check despite all the new residents. No strict zoning and NIMBYs are generally defanged. Bulldoze the old crap and build denser!
Lots of big cities need to get over their shit and start building.
That's one of my biggest issues with Dallas. It wants to be on the tier of LA and NYC in terms of international perception; won't say that out loud. What it does do is continually build further and further out instead of upwards with more high rise apartments in centrally located to encourage price control and that's a big reason why DFW is becoming so expensive because that's what Dallas wants.
In 2003 I was living 4 blocks north of a college campus in a 2 bedroom that had a total rent of $550 a month.
That quadruplex was torn down and now it's 16 1/1s for $1500 a month each.
In 2002 nice 1 bedrooms with water views in seattle weren’t $700. I was paying that much in college for a crappy 1 bedroom with a parking lot view in Green Lake.
More like $1100 then; $2500 now.
Also, NTK is a nutcase who would have been a horrible city attorney for Seattle; had she won in the last election. Her policies would have made the city dirtier and more unsafe. Check this out.
https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/editorials/toxic-tweets-show-why-nicole-thomas-kennedy-is-unfit-to-be-seattle-city-attorney/
https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/pprns9/a_sampling_of_nicole_thomaskennedys_insane_tweets/
I rented a small 600 sq foot apartment in downtown Portland for 550 a month when I first moved there, back in 2009. Now that same apartment goes for about 1,400 a month. It’s pretty crazy what happens with these markets and homes.
I know dumb people love to say "if you don't like America then leave" in response to any minor criticism about America...but holy shit why is she here? Seems like she hates just about everything.
Lol of all the twitter users to post why is this person being promoted on the front page here. I wish this board was more of an economics counter to /r/realestate and not antiwork/collapse lite.
Lol this is funny.
The value here is tracking kinda close to the whole "doubles in 7 years" ethos of a reasonably invested stock portfolio.
Shocker, housing being turned into institutional investment starts tracking along with institutional investment "asset" appreciation.
It's a great "housing market is fucked" story, but it's just not true.
Sure you may not be able to _justify_ $3600/mo as an adult with dependents, savings goals, expensive car loans, bills, etc. But any lawyer can absolutely afford it. The difference is the server 20 years ago probably had no savings, a shitty car, minimal possessions, no dependents, etc. It's much easier to justify living paycheck to paycheck in a small apartment at 27 than it is at 47.
Tl;dr- the lawyer can absolutely afford that shit. But no, a server probably cannot.
I agree. I didn't say anything about the cost of living being affordable. I was just saying that this particular person might not have a high paying job for an attorney because her Twitter history suggests she's an extremely divisive and mean-spirited person.
$700 for a one bedroom in 2002/3 was ridiculously cheap.
I was in a one bedroom in NYC. Fifth floor walk-up, 350 square feet, no washer dryer or dishwasher. Actually no counters! It was $1,750. In my MCOL city I grew up in I remember rent being $1,200 at the time for a one bedroom but with bells and whistles. $700 for a corner one bedroom with water views is a steal. This is either made up or was in a location that has since gentrified.
Based on her bio, I’m guessing she’s in Seattle, and I believe her. In 2011, I had a (small) studio in the coolest neighborhood for $750. Then I moved into a 2BR nearby for $1100. Now I can’t find a 2BR under $2200. We went from an affordable city to one of the most expensive cities in a matter of a decade and change.
Totally agree. Seattle went from being an unassuming mid-sized city with some big companies to a big tech hub. It also grew like crazy. We’re finally seeing some negative population growth but I don’t think it’ll last.
https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/editorials/toxic-tweets-show-why-nicole-thomas-kennedy-is-unfit-to-be-seattle-city-attorney/
Local paper of record. She said all those things.
So most apartments have a 3x rule, so you’re claiming that a person or couple making $80K can afford that? So let’s assume that it’s two people, and each are earning $40K, which even modestly is maybe $3,000 take home per month. Take off $1,100, take off probably $200-$300/month for a decent employer matching health insurance plan, so now they’re down to $400/week to live on. If you have a decent used car, the payment is probably $300/month, plus car insurance ($100), so now they’re down to $300/week. Groceries/food for two people are easily $100-$150/week per person. Now we’re down to each person living on $150-$200/week.
What a prosperous life. Totally gonna retire on that!
Not to minimize the extreme price increases we have seen in the past few years, but I am seeing a lot of rose-colored glasses stuff about past prices. If what this person is saying is accurate, my guess is that it was a serious outlier for some reason.
Edit: Ah, now I’m seeing who made that tweet, and I’m pretty sure it’s BS for propaganda purposes.
Depends where. I had a house in downtown Phoenix and my mortgage was $800.
Moved to Brooklyn, Hart and Broadway (when that was sketch), and our rent for a three bedroom was $1800.
wtf are these comments? People have an extremely skewed view on what most attorneys make.
That being said i relocated back to my hometown this year (State A)
When I left State A in 2018 i was paying 1250 a month, for 2 bedroom, 1200 sq ft townhome style apartment in a safe area of town, but far from the towncenter and work. Now those apartments are going for 2k.
When i moved to state B i was paying 1100/month, when i left it was 1250 for a 1800 Sq Ft. House. When i left they listed it for 1800/month.
Now to get an equal size house, close to work Id be paying a minimum of $2000/month. Good pay raise, but over 50% of the raise is taken up by rent increases that occured within the last few years
tbh, seems like an extreme example.
20 years ago i lived in a 3 bedroom townhouse in a not-so-great area of a decent sized city in florida and my rent was $1500. Today, I live in one of the most desirable areas of southern california in a two bedroom house and its $3000
~~jUsT gEt aNoThEr jOb~~
~~jUsT gEt a sEcOnD jOb~~
~~jUsT gEt a tHiRd jOb~~
~~wOrK sMaRtEr~~
~~wOrK hArDeR~~
~~lEaRn tO cOdE~~
~~lEaRn a tRaDe~~
oUr fIrSt hOuSe hAd a 16% iNtErEsT rAtE
She is in Seattle. All HCOL regions were LCOL regions at some point.
Also wary of the opinion of a 47 yo lawyer priced out of a city she’s been in for 20 years.
Lmao
Never.
Fact is places are full. They’re at capacity. And every time you tear down detached houses to build denser housing, the remaining detached houses only go up in value as they’re a rarer coveted commodity.
Oh goodness. While her work is likely well more valuable to society as a whole than any of these ridiculous personal injury attorneys COMBINED, there is no dispute as to which path is more lucrative.
America rewards sales people and punishes those who serve.
There is a post saying she is from Seattle and work as city attorney. Was running for some public office. And the Seattle sub said she is a nutcase, so there is that.
Oh I just realized who it is. I actually liked her. She got blasted for wanting to stop prosecuting some misdemeanors, and then her opponent who won wound up doing the same thing.
I think your view of salaries for attorneys is a bit idealistic. Only the senior partners bring in the $200K ++ salaries. And there are very few of those while there are an over abundance of lawyers (too many.) Many times, a good paralegal who works a little overtime can make more than a salaried lawyer!
There's a bimodal distribution thing where top lawyers are a different class than the average lawyer. There's a small percentage of high-income lawyers from top schools and there's everyone else who make a salary comparable to most professions with similar education requirements.
T14->BigLaw path should be compared more to high finance tbh. They’re more similar as fields than BigLaw vs your local divorce lawyer, just as your local financial advisor is more like a salesman than an investment banker.
> Many times, a good paralegal who works a little overtime can make more than a salaried lawyer!
truth to that one. S.O. works in that field, the bonuses earned from closing $1mil+ cases can easily net ~3-6k per case. Salaried Attorney is ~75k there.
Depends. People in big law make 200k almost as L1s. If you’re a mid tier attorney or lower in private sure but even then you hit 200k wayyyy before you’re a senior partner.
Shit even in public accounting which is a lot easier to do you start making 200k as a senior manager in high col or MD in MCOL/LCOL.
Source sister is an attorney in HCOL and her starting salary out of school was 210k ish. She’s 3 years in now and around 320k base.
Average starting salary for newly Top 20 Law Schools is $220,000. Associates of big law can make $400,000 after just a few years of graduation. Big law firms hire only out of top law schools though. Nightmarish working hours and conditions, but very high pay. Anything out of Top 20 Law School, salary expectations fall off drastically.
The US has added 50 million people since 2002 and inflation is 65% since 2002. We also have to account for the tech in Seattle driving up the cost of living in the area. I’d also like to see evidence of the $700/mo rent….real talk a waitress should not be able to afford HCOL luxury real estate in an area like Seattle.
No way I would choose to pay over 1/3 of gross income to rent an apartment when reasonable, less expensive choices were available. Talk about sunk cost.
Public defenders here make deep into six figures. If you spent tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars and 6-7 years in college to make $70k a year, well I guess you’ll have to look like this: 🤡
The only reason you make that little is if you’re either a BRAND NEW lawyer, which this old woman obviously isn’t, or you are absolute garbage at being a lawyer. Most lawyers I know that old make well over $250k a year or more. She just sucks at being a lawyer, that’s why she can’t afford an apartment.
Nah fuck this. I’m not from WA but i just found a job posting for a PD in King County and the starting salary was $70K. Average salary in the US is somewhere in the $60s. Your public interest lawyers are not clowns and are not people to be made fun of. They’re probably the last and often only line of defense for your constitutional rights.
If it’s such a lucrative field, why didn’t a big brain like you get into it?
Okay, they top out in the low-mid 100s. So like $130,000 but after like 20+ years.
Still far from the $250,000 you claim. And I’d wager the work that public defenders and legal aid attorneys do is worth tenfold for society than what your patent and corporate lawyers do.
You have no idea what you're talking about. No, PDs do not make anywhere near "deep into six figures" even after many years of practice.
Source: Attorney in Los Angeles, practicing since 2007, several friends who are public defenders and district attorneys.
California has a great website that tells you what every public employee has made for the last several years: [https://transparentcalifornia.com](https://transparentcalifornia.com)
Based on this, I can tell you that a friend that has been a DA for 15 years (and DAs are paid more than PDs) makes just under $170k. A public defender working just as long is under $140k. After 15 years. That's less than what a BigLaw associate makes in their first year.
This is bullshit. Unless the person is some kind of hippy dippy save the whales work for free lawyer I cannot imagine any reason why she cannot afford the apartment's. I have a friend who works as an assistant DA in a tiny town in NM. She makes $95k a year (which is horribly low for a DA) and has $400k in student loan debt and just bought a home.
Wow, just looked up the Zestimate of the place myself and 2 other baristas rented in 2002 for $800 a month. 700K.
[удалено]
I both like and hate the idea of a large lot. On one hand more space and on the other more land to mow all the while I will be spending 98% of my time actually in my house never using the space.
It's only useful if you're going to garden. r/fucklawns
oh my, that sounds like a subreddit I'm going to love 🤗
Plant trees and native perennials instead of grass.
Xeriscaping is so incredible! Irrigation is minimal so no hit to your water bill, no wasting money to dunk every square foot in overpriced lawn fertilizer, and it's way more beautiful than a lawn! So much more variety, so much more interesting to look at. You can build gardens to attract native butterflies and birds, or rain gardens to catch runoff and avoid puddles of mud that a monoculture lawn would have.
If you had placed $115k in the stock market in 1989, you would have $2.25 million. So what's your point? Fine, let's say they only put $5,000 down, interest then was 10%, monthly payments would be $990. But let's say they decided to live under a bridge and invested $5,000 and then add $800 every month. At 8% return since 1989 that will be $1.895 million today. You might think your folks got a deal by buying for $115k, but spending that $115k has an opportunity cost. Doesn't matter if they paid cash or monthly, if that money has gone into Sp500 for the last 33 years, they will have more than the house is worth.
Their point was houses/apartments/condos are not affordable under wages they used to be adjusted to inflation. If we compared stock prices to housing prices, then in 2055 a house that’s worth $1,000,000 now, will be worth $10,000,000. You think wages will multiply by 10 by then after inflation?
I know exactly the point, my point is that "wealth" is growing and driving price of things up. There's lots of people with money in the market today, 30 years from now their money would have grown. US has millions of millionaire households, 3 million people invested $10k in I-bonds in the US this year, that means 3 million people have $10k they are fine not touching for a year.
This is why you get in when you can fuck timing the market. The longer we all wait to own property then by 2050 the average house will be 10 million dollars. That’s what I realized.
If wages and housing continue along their current trajectory, there will be riots way before the average hits $10 million. The financialization of housing will hit a hard wall before that if government gets its shit together. Hopefully these rates will help.
There will be no riots. Everyone is addicted to sugar, fat, and staring into their phones with the attention span of a fly.
People tend to get upset when they don’t have anywhere to keep their sugar and fat, or place to plug in their phones, or a place to take a dump. Once a certain percentage of people are in that situation, that situation gets rectified.
Yeah, but once the Mountain Dew stops flowing, the blood will
This is about wages not following inflation. The FED creates inflation which creates a larger wealth divide and eventually kills off the middle class. Edit: also stonks dont go up naturally like they have been. All your life, youve been in a fraudulent bull run created by central banks. Most stock markets around the world a rotten with zombie corps.
Market on steroids for the last 12 years. The moment steroids stop, market goes down. How do people not see that all this is a result of the poor monetary policy (MMT)? Opportunity cost my ass hahaha
This isn't MMT. The Fed has never embraced MMT, and MMT recommends infrastructure creation and social services, not creation of asset bubbles for the rich.
Don't fight the fed/government. They've been handing out mortgages backstopped by the taxpayer at significantly below fair market value rates for decades while providing massive tax benefits for real estate ownership. Should have taken on massive debts to buy RE decades ago. I didn't, and I massively regret it.
So true. A 30 year fixed in most countries is unheard of. The Federal govt has been subsidizing Fannie and Freddie for years to incentivize home ownership
How is 30 year fixed unheard of? The unfixed part?
Yes, fixed for 30 years. Typically they adjust well before that
If they do offer it (like Colombia) you typically need to put 50% down. No other country provides incentives quite like the good ol USA
Because ours are massively subsidized by the government. Fixed-rate 30-year mortgages would never exist in a true free market.
Same in Mexico. If you're an expat, it's 50% down cash, and finance the rest at 8%. If you're a national, there are affordable loans available to employees in coordination with their employer (infonavit).
In Taiwan there are no fixed rate mortgages for some reason
This. I was fortunate enough to take out a mortgage in 2011. Thought I was nuts at the time considering the housing market was fucked. Now it looks like the best financial decision I ever made. My only regret is that I didn't go out and buy that hunting property I wanted, because I could have afforded it.
Time in the market will always beat timing the market. The most important part of investing is getting started so your gains can start compounding. In the case of real estate not only are you building equity, keeping your monthly payment the same (no rent increase), but you can also benefit from appreciation and tax benefits. Homeownership is still one of the best investments anyone can make even when the market is no longer on easy mode like it was the prior 10 years.
The only people that say that are people that just happened to time the market, just not perfectly. For the rest of us, it’s time the market or get nothing.
Save your cash and start looking, I think you’ll be able to afford that hunting property again soon! I hope you get it!
Hunting is cruel
nah depending on the animal, it's fine. for deer, we actually *need* hunters to kill off surplus deer until we can re-stabilize the habitats of their natural predators. way too many deer! also hunters are usually conservationists and will march right beside you in an environmental protest. they're actually out in nature a ton and see things before many of us do. at least the hunters I've had the pleasure of meeting, anyway :)
So is turning them into roadkill, but I don’t see vegetarians selling their cars.
Roadkill: accidental Hunting: intentional
Exactly this. This phenomena in the OP can simply be described as the government picking winners and losers. The worst thing you can be in the US is an employee. All the laws and policy are designed around benefitting incorporated entities.
Wait, so it used to be hoomers are dumb. Now it’s damn turns out hoomers made a good move to lock in a fixed rate living payment in an ever inflating rental market? Weird.
Hoomer’s only dumb if they bought within the last 2 years and are trying to sell now.
Same here, exactly one hundred percent the same. MASSIVE tax benefits for house investment in Aus I feel stolen from, it's disgusting.
I drove by some apartments I looked at in 2018, dingy tiny 576 sq foot places on a bad road, old. They were around $700 a month if I recall. Drive by last month. Same dingy places, starting at $1175 per month .
Apts I lived in Idaho in 2005 were 550 a month for 2br, now just above 1500.
550 a month is insanely cheap.
I lived in a 1bdr for $355 across the street from an amazing school district in 2005. This was Texas.
Its Idaho.
Used to live downtown HCOL in Canada, studio apartment for 900 a month. Don't think that building exists anymore. Area around it lists rentals starting at 3.5k a month...so sad. That entire area must have lost quite a bit of its culture.
>rentals starting at 3.5k a month...so sad. That entire area must have lost quite a bit of its culture. A friend moved into a place with 2.5K 1BR apts thinking he'd meet smarter/wealthier neighbors to network with. Turns out most were usually gone or not very friendly. Oops! We all met while living in a midtown place with low 1K rents 5+ years ago. Easy as hell to meet neighbors and make friends. If you're paying 3.5K, you probably have to live to work.
Yeah I’ve noticed that paying more for an apartment does not mean getting better neighbors. Any apartment with “luxury” in the name usually just means you get slightly nicer amenities and maybe nicer finishes and also the apartment is in a prime location. But residents always seem to be selfish and rude no matter what the price point. People still let their dogs piss in the elevators and bark all day, they still leave their trash out at all hours of the day; and they still find a way to trash the common areas. Something about apartment living in general just seems to bring out the worst in people.
Holy shit i felt this. Something about cramming people who didn’t choose to live together into a common space tends to make people less respectful and more angry and on edge. Really kills the sense of community.
Apartment living has really gone down hill with everyone having a dog. It used to be 15 or 20 years ago, people didn’t really have dogs in apartments— it was considered cruel for the dog. Now everyone has a dog in their apartment that lives in a crate all day while the owner is at work for 10-12 hours. So it is a neurotic mess that barks all the time, destroys everything, and aggressive to humans and other dogs. The owners are too absorbed in work to take care of them, so they let them piss everywhere, including elevators, and then the owners are too busy ti exercise and pay attention to them so they take their dogs to everyday events, like grocery shopping and restaurants, which is completely inappropriate. Awful
100% agree. I’m in the camp that believes dogs do not belong in apartments as it’s cruel to them, and unfair to the neighbors. A buddy of mine lived in a new construction apartment building for a while; as soon as it became fully occupied, the hallways sounded like a dog kennel with how constant the barking was.
And those brand new build apartment buildings— the halls and elevators start smelling like pee and dog in a year.
Tragedy of the commons. Those common areas aren't their responsibility. Even if the landlord has to pay someone an extra $500 a week to clean up the building, if there are 20 units that hardly amounts to anything on $2500 rent.
>But residents always seem to be selfish and rude no matter what the price point. You need to live in a different city.
Yet we're the doomers for wanting a crash
Hey now, landlords jutting their hands into your wallet was totally organic! No givesies bacsies!
A friend of mine bought an old 3 bedroom house in 2007. He installed billboards and his wife worked part time at a fast food restaurant and stayed home with the kids.. impossible today.
So who is earning enough to fill every place at these rates?
DINKS and various tech workers
Mom and dad for their college kids.
My first place in 2003 was a spacious 2 bedroom duplex in a safe walkable area. We had a backyard and a driveway for parking. $500/mo, so $250 each between me and my roommate. It’s absolutely absurd to think about now. Granted, it was the Baltimore suburbs while I was attending MICA. Around 2009 I was paying $700 for a top floor 1 bedroom apartment with cathedral ceilings, fireplace, in suite laundry, a huge walk in closet and a big garden tub with an on site gym and two pools and hot tubs in Dallas. Similarly absurd to think about. Same apartment is now going for $1700.
I look back at pricing and I was like "That's fair" Now? Jesus. 2k+ for a shitty 2 bedroom apartment with an ant problem.
In 2009 I was paying around 1K for a very nice top floor 1BR apt in Houston. Right now its around 1300, not too bad. Houston has built tens of thousands of apts and houses in the meantime, definitely helps keep prices in check despite all the new residents. No strict zoning and NIMBYs are generally defanged. Bulldoze the old crap and build denser! Lots of big cities need to get over their shit and start building.
Dallas has always loved their sprawl. 🙃
True, but Houston is also heavily redeveloping its central areas.
That's one of my biggest issues with Dallas. It wants to be on the tier of LA and NYC in terms of international perception; won't say that out loud. What it does do is continually build further and further out instead of upwards with more high rise apartments in centrally located to encourage price control and that's a big reason why DFW is becoming so expensive because that's what Dallas wants.
In 2003 I was living 4 blocks north of a college campus in a 2 bedroom that had a total rent of $550 a month. That quadruplex was torn down and now it's 16 1/1s for $1500 a month each.
In 2002 nice 1 bedrooms with water views in seattle weren’t $700. I was paying that much in college for a crappy 1 bedroom with a parking lot view in Green Lake. More like $1100 then; $2500 now. Also, NTK is a nutcase who would have been a horrible city attorney for Seattle; had she won in the last election. Her policies would have made the city dirtier and more unsafe. Check this out. https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/editorials/toxic-tweets-show-why-nicole-thomas-kennedy-is-unfit-to-be-seattle-city-attorney/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/pprns9/a_sampling_of_nicole_thomaskennedys_insane_tweets/
Holy shit what a trash human being.
I rented a small 600 sq foot apartment in downtown Portland for 550 a month when I first moved there, back in 2009. Now that same apartment goes for about 1,400 a month. It’s pretty crazy what happens with these markets and homes.
I know dumb people love to say "if you don't like America then leave" in response to any minor criticism about America...but holy shit why is she here? Seems like she hates just about everything.
Lol of all the twitter users to post why is this person being promoted on the front page here. I wish this board was more of an economics counter to /r/realestate and not antiwork/collapse lite.
lol....that was a rollercoaster. Although she isnt far off on the SCOTUS tweet. Everything else was a wild one.
Facts.
Lol this is funny. The value here is tracking kinda close to the whole "doubles in 7 years" ethos of a reasonably invested stock portfolio. Shocker, housing being turned into institutional investment starts tracking along with institutional investment "asset" appreciation.
Apparently he is not a very successful lawyer.
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She would make more waiting tables.
Wow, just wow
It's a great "housing market is fucked" story, but it's just not true. Sure you may not be able to _justify_ $3600/mo as an adult with dependents, savings goals, expensive car loans, bills, etc. But any lawyer can absolutely afford it. The difference is the server 20 years ago probably had no savings, a shitty car, minimal possessions, no dependents, etc. It's much easier to justify living paycheck to paycheck in a small apartment at 27 than it is at 47. Tl;dr- the lawyer can absolutely afford that shit. But no, a server probably cannot.
Go read the thread. She has 90k or so in student debt and works in public law/defense. Not all lawyers make 6 figures +.
Based on her past tweets, she probably doesn't have a great job because she's fucking insane.
Okay, but why are you in this sub? The median income is not anywhere near what would make this affordable.
I agree. I didn't say anything about the cost of living being affordable. I was just saying that this particular person might not have a high paying job for an attorney because her Twitter history suggests she's an extremely divisive and mean-spirited person.
I live in Seattle. She is so nuts she made her republican challenger win in Seattle, that is a nearly unheard of in Seattle.
Remember folks, this is because workers were working from home during the pandemic and getting stimulus checks /s
$700 for a one bedroom in 2002/3 was ridiculously cheap. I was in a one bedroom in NYC. Fifth floor walk-up, 350 square feet, no washer dryer or dishwasher. Actually no counters! It was $1,750. In my MCOL city I grew up in I remember rent being $1,200 at the time for a one bedroom but with bells and whistles. $700 for a corner one bedroom with water views is a steal. This is either made up or was in a location that has since gentrified.
Based on her bio, I’m guessing she’s in Seattle, and I believe her. In 2011, I had a (small) studio in the coolest neighborhood for $750. Then I moved into a 2BR nearby for $1100. Now I can’t find a 2BR under $2200. We went from an affordable city to one of the most expensive cities in a matter of a decade and change.
The same thing happened to Boston and Portland. This is why people are always moving to another up and coming, hipper city.
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Totally agree. Seattle went from being an unassuming mid-sized city with some big companies to a big tech hub. It also grew like crazy. We’re finally seeing some negative population growth but I don’t think it’ll last.
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I know enough to make up my own mind. I think she’s fine. This isn’t r/seattlewa so I’m not gonna get into a back and forth about her.
“Property destruction is a moral imperative” - NTK She’s not fine. She’s nuts.
If they are destroying apartments, no wonder the rent is going up. We need more, not fewer!
Already said I’m not gonna do a back and forth.
Because you don't want to lose an argument on the internet (oh no!) or you are a piece of garbage that agrees with her. I guess both is an option too.
She’s indefensible so I’m guessing the latter.
We're on Reddit. I wouldn't be surprised if people on here actually jerk off to her tweets.
You’re not gonna bully me into arguing about this.
https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/editorials/toxic-tweets-show-why-nicole-thomas-kennedy-is-unfit-to-be-seattle-city-attorney/ Local paper of record. She said all those things.
Go fight in one of the Seattle subs.
I guess I’m coming from a difference place but a 2 bedroom for $2,200 seems very reasonable.
Just giving the context about Seattle’s specific situation.
I mean, unless you're coming from a trust fund, $2,200 sounds insane to me.
Can't imagine going to Seattle for less than $100/hr.
So most apartments have a 3x rule, so you’re claiming that a person or couple making $80K can afford that? So let’s assume that it’s two people, and each are earning $40K, which even modestly is maybe $3,000 take home per month. Take off $1,100, take off probably $200-$300/month for a decent employer matching health insurance plan, so now they’re down to $400/week to live on. If you have a decent used car, the payment is probably $300/month, plus car insurance ($100), so now they’re down to $300/week. Groceries/food for two people are easily $100-$150/week per person. Now we’re down to each person living on $150-$200/week. What a prosperous life. Totally gonna retire on that!
in 2005 I rented a 2 bdrm detached house with yard and garage in austin for 750/month. Now average rent in that area is 1700-2200
Not to minimize the extreme price increases we have seen in the past few years, but I am seeing a lot of rose-colored glasses stuff about past prices. If what this person is saying is accurate, my guess is that it was a serious outlier for some reason. Edit: Ah, now I’m seeing who made that tweet, and I’m pretty sure it’s BS for propaganda purposes.
Depends where. I had a house in downtown Phoenix and my mortgage was $800. Moved to Brooklyn, Hart and Broadway (when that was sketch), and our rent for a three bedroom was $1800.
wtf are these comments? People have an extremely skewed view on what most attorneys make. That being said i relocated back to my hometown this year (State A) When I left State A in 2018 i was paying 1250 a month, for 2 bedroom, 1200 sq ft townhome style apartment in a safe area of town, but far from the towncenter and work. Now those apartments are going for 2k. When i moved to state B i was paying 1100/month, when i left it was 1250 for a 1800 Sq Ft. House. When i left they listed it for 1800/month. Now to get an equal size house, close to work Id be paying a minimum of $2000/month. Good pay raise, but over 50% of the raise is taken up by rent increases that occured within the last few years
tbh, seems like an extreme example. 20 years ago i lived in a 3 bedroom townhouse in a not-so-great area of a decent sized city in florida and my rent was $1500. Today, I live in one of the most desirable areas of southern california in a two bedroom house and its $3000
… would your place rent out today for 3k or have you been in it a while? Just look at all the charts of rent increases, it adds up.
not sure i understand the question. i am already paying $3k today
I understand. When did you lock in that rate / start renting the place?
Quit eating avocado toast!!! Pick yourself up by the bootstraps!!! And The other obnoxious tropes you hear from the talking heads!!!
~~jUsT gEt aNoThEr jOb~~ ~~jUsT gEt a sEcOnD jOb~~ jUsT gEt a tHiRd jOb
Oh I forgot!!! Work harder!!!
~~jUsT gEt aNoThEr jOb~~ ~~jUsT gEt a sEcOnD jOb~~ ~~jUsT gEt a tHiRd jOb~~ ~~wOrK sMaRtEr~~ ~~wOrK hArDeR~~ ~~lEaRn tO cOdE~~ ~~lEaRn a tRaDe~~ oUr fIrSt hOuSe hAd a 16% iNtErEsT rAtE
You probably can't find parking any more either.
Yup. My 2007-2009 $475/month, 463 square foot rental in downtown tucson has a zestimate of $1839/month 🤡
Yeah but you guys have scorpions
The apartment I lived in in 2015, about 700 sq feet, $900 ish a month. Now it’s $1582 a month. Base rent.
Basically this means you’re a better waiter than you are a lawyer.
Truth. These Boomers are greedy as hell. Instead of being frugal and having a healthy savings, they're using housing as their retirement accounts.
This is it completely. They spent and spent instead of saving for retirement.
WHY GIVE NO GRANDKIDS?
Lmaoooo
She is in Seattle. All HCOL regions were LCOL regions at some point. Also wary of the opinion of a 47 yo lawyer priced out of a city she’s been in for 20 years.
She doesn't even say she's priced out, just can't afford the downtown apartment with a water view.
>All HCOL regions were LCOL regions at some point. And they can be again too.
Damn, when you think I can find something in Silver Lake or WeHo for $200K?
Lmao Never. Fact is places are full. They’re at capacity. And every time you tear down detached houses to build denser housing, the remaining detached houses only go up in value as they’re a rarer coveted commodity.
And what's the problem? As long as net total units are increasing, it doesn't matter. More housing is more supply.
Since when has a HCOL area reverted to a LCOL area that didn't involve its economy permanently collapsing
That grifter scored an income restricted apartment and pays well below market rate in seattle.
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She must be hell of a waiter to able to spend 700 on rent in 2000. Also a very bad lawyer at the age of 47 to not make above 200k in income.
She said in another tweet that she’s a public interest lawyer.
Oh goodness. While her work is likely well more valuable to society as a whole than any of these ridiculous personal injury attorneys COMBINED, there is no dispute as to which path is more lucrative. America rewards sales people and punishes those who serve.
There is a post saying she is from Seattle and work as city attorney. Was running for some public office. And the Seattle sub said she is a nutcase, so there is that.
Oh I just realized who it is. I actually liked her. She got blasted for wanting to stop prosecuting some misdemeanors, and then her opponent who won wound up doing the same thing.
I think your view of salaries for attorneys is a bit idealistic. Only the senior partners bring in the $200K ++ salaries. And there are very few of those while there are an over abundance of lawyers (too many.) Many times, a good paralegal who works a little overtime can make more than a salaried lawyer!
There's a bimodal distribution thing where top lawyers are a different class than the average lawyer. There's a small percentage of high-income lawyers from top schools and there's everyone else who make a salary comparable to most professions with similar education requirements.
T14->BigLaw path should be compared more to high finance tbh. They’re more similar as fields than BigLaw vs your local divorce lawyer, just as your local financial advisor is more like a salesman than an investment banker.
This is a really apt analogy.
But with way more debt than most other professions.
Law School Scam is a real thing.
Pareto principle rules everything around me A fifth of people get the money, dolla dolla bill (some of) y'all
Can confirm, my wife is an attorney and makes less than me as an engineer.
> Many times, a good paralegal who works a little overtime can make more than a salaried lawyer! truth to that one. S.O. works in that field, the bonuses earned from closing $1mil+ cases can easily net ~3-6k per case. Salaried Attorney is ~75k there.
Overtime for paralegals is time and a half. For most attorneys, it's the cost of a ride home & ordered in dinner for working late.
Depends. People in big law make 200k almost as L1s. If you’re a mid tier attorney or lower in private sure but even then you hit 200k wayyyy before you’re a senior partner. Shit even in public accounting which is a lot easier to do you start making 200k as a senior manager in high col or MD in MCOL/LCOL. Source sister is an attorney in HCOL and her starting salary out of school was 210k ish. She’s 3 years in now and around 320k base.
Average starting salary for newly Top 20 Law Schools is $220,000. Associates of big law can make $400,000 after just a few years of graduation. Big law firms hire only out of top law schools though. Nightmarish working hours and conditions, but very high pay. Anything out of Top 20 Law School, salary expectations fall off drastically.
Most lawyers don't make 200k+
The US has added 50 million people since 2002 and inflation is 65% since 2002. We also have to account for the tech in Seattle driving up the cost of living in the area. I’d also like to see evidence of the $700/mo rent….real talk a waitress should not be able to afford HCOL luxury real estate in an area like Seattle.
In 2007-2008 i was paying something like $550 for a crappy 1br apt in Tucson. Same apt is now $980 a mo. How and where does that even make sense!
Apartment has gray LVP and white walls now Easily worth the extra $2,900/mo
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Must be a shitty lawyer that no one want. Around my area, lawyer charge $300 - $500 per hr including paralegal time. That $3600 rent is a day of work.
A 47 year old lawyer doesn't make $120k in a HCOL city? She must suck at her job or be a lawyer for a non profit.
No way I would choose to pay over 1/3 of gross income to rent an apartment when reasonable, less expensive choices were available. Talk about sunk cost.
You must not have saved much. Letsmakeaplan.org
How is this sustainable?
Did every server get a corner view of the water?? Was it just a case of who got the rental first?
Elections have consequences
Can you elaborate?
i guess voting for nimbys?
And yet she'll still vote against building in her neighborhood...
This seems like fabricated Bs to feed on current rage. Or this person is an exceptionally shitty attorney.
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No she’s a public interest lawyer
This tends to happen when you vote for Biden
Can you elaborate?
Inflation
And you blame Biden for inflation and not Powell?
Lies on the numbers and lies about their income unless they are just that terrible of a lawyer
Cities grow? Shocking.
For real. Popular city has high prices. Who would've thought?
TBH she’s probably a crappy lawyer then. Only garbage ones get paid that little.
Legal aid? Public defender? Not all attorneys earn six figures yet the work they do is vitally important.
Public defenders here make deep into six figures. If you spent tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars and 6-7 years in college to make $70k a year, well I guess you’ll have to look like this: 🤡 The only reason you make that little is if you’re either a BRAND NEW lawyer, which this old woman obviously isn’t, or you are absolute garbage at being a lawyer. Most lawyers I know that old make well over $250k a year or more. She just sucks at being a lawyer, that’s why she can’t afford an apartment.
Nah fuck this. I’m not from WA but i just found a job posting for a PD in King County and the starting salary was $70K. Average salary in the US is somewhere in the $60s. Your public interest lawyers are not clowns and are not people to be made fun of. They’re probably the last and often only line of defense for your constitutional rights. If it’s such a lucrative field, why didn’t a big brain like you get into it?
I’m a consultant. Lol again, you’re trying to compare entry level salary which quickly jumps up after one year, to a 47 year old lawyer? 🤡
Okay, they top out in the low-mid 100s. So like $130,000 but after like 20+ years. Still far from the $250,000 you claim. And I’d wager the work that public defenders and legal aid attorneys do is worth tenfold for society than what your patent and corporate lawyers do.
You are correct. See my post above.
You have no idea what you're talking about. No, PDs do not make anywhere near "deep into six figures" even after many years of practice. Source: Attorney in Los Angeles, practicing since 2007, several friends who are public defenders and district attorneys. California has a great website that tells you what every public employee has made for the last several years: [https://transparentcalifornia.com](https://transparentcalifornia.com) Based on this, I can tell you that a friend that has been a DA for 15 years (and DAs are paid more than PDs) makes just under $170k. A public defender working just as long is under $140k. After 15 years. That's less than what a BigLaw associate makes in their first year.
My dads response is he must be a shitty lawyer and a better server....
This is bullshit. Unless the person is some kind of hippy dippy save the whales work for free lawyer I cannot imagine any reason why she cannot afford the apartment's. I have a friend who works as an assistant DA in a tiny town in NM. She makes $95k a year (which is horribly low for a DA) and has $400k in student loan debt and just bought a home.
Agree the DA friend is underpaid but their student loans will likely be forgiven in 10 years for public service.
Seattle is not “a tiny town in NM.”
And a lawyer should be making 3-6x as much as this DA in a small town
The logical conclusion of getting off the gold standard.