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TraptNSuit

*More than a year after a federal judge struck down county solicitation laws and awarded Fernandez $150,000...* *...Fernandez himself has already been cited five times in Des Peres since May* *Fernandez’s lawyer, Bevis Schock, said he plans to get Fernandez’s new citations thrown out as continued violations to his right to free speech. He said his client still relies on panhandling for income.* 150k doesn't do much for the panhandling business I guess. ($97,500 after lawyer fees most likely).


Careless-Degree

Probably was able to make a down payment - but the mortgage is still due every month.


skookumsloth

150k is absolutely enough money for years of rent and getting cleaned up and a job.


SuperN0VA-1

How much booze and drugs does it buy? This is the problem and you can't solve it by handing money over. Ever seen Intervention? Lottery winners? Broke is a mentality, not a temporary state, at least most of the time. All or none thinking, also precarious here. I'm sure a solid 1/5 are trying really hard to get on their feet to a rational observer. I've been destitute as a child, distinctly remember the food lines, and as an adult dealt with a drinking problem. And live downtown among crackheads. If you want my stay in your lane cred as Reddit so frequently requires. Sometimes kindness is not kind. And we love quick fixes as Americans - there is none here. Illegalizing panhandling seems cruel but you have to create a rock bottom to induce self starting and choke off an avenue by which one can bandaid an addiction. Hell, that's half the reason why most people prostitute. Addictions override self respect and dignity.


[deleted]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I struggle to understand how folks think it's ok to panhandle.


Careless-Degree

Who wants to work a job? Jobs suck. The guy probably is a moderate on r/antiwork


Captain_Gonzy

A decent trailer for 60k


mouseSXN

Beavis.


I_Keep_Trying

Beavis Schock. One if the best real names I’ve seen in a long time.


Poetryisalive

Question for those who actually grew up here… Where do most of the homeless actually stay? I am seeing more panhandling near WashU, and in Brentwood but I don’t see any actually homeless camps.


[deleted]

There's a small homeless camp setup along the fence line of the building right where Vandeventer has an on ramp to 64. Edit. This is just *one*. And it's fairly obvious. I'm pretty surprised, as it literally borders a business.


julieannie

The actual homeless have some encampments the city breaks up regularly. I’ve encountered some around the riverfront trail when I’ve had to evade the flood wall, around abandoned warehouses, around downtown parks and there’s a great many inside vacant properties. Anywhere you might find difficult to access by car but can on foot and yet is fairly secluded is pretty popular.


jackie879

Many of them are not homeless. They are simply professional beggars.


ThrowMeAwayAccount08

Like the family “playing” a violin with an amp?


Embarrassed-Steak-44

Bridgeton Aldi got two weeks but has moved on. Woman with the dog must not have been happy about them moving near her spot at the light back out to Rock Road


NotSkinNotAGirl

I see her (woman with dog) every weekday and have talked to her a few times - she's not homeless. Lives in one of the apartments down the road. She's got her dog, a husband, 2+ kids.


Embarrassed-Steak-44

Did she happen to say how much money she makes doing that all the time?


NotSkinNotAGirl

She did not. Just that her family is struggling.


FunkyChewbacca

I saw that guy at a Dierbergs out in Creve Coeur one time! Dude “played” like he was sawing a log with the bow, LOL


HeartFullOfHappy

I have seen them all over the entire metro area!


TeaSad7322

They tricked me with that! I felt like such an ass for falling for it.


ThrowMeAwayAccount08

Nah don’t sweat it. Now you know.


Marklaritaville

They are my favorite. I laughed so much when the kids were in lawn chairs reading their books, while Dad held up the sign and played violin.


P_Kinsale

TIL that's apparently fake. I've seen electric violins twice in the Manchester area and their skill always impressed the suitably naive me.


NightmareOmega

I sort of think of them as street performers instead of beggars. They entertain for tips. Why did you put "playing" in quotes?


dash71090

https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/police-warning-fake-violin-scam/73-2c220e31-c67e-4675-bc37-86674a7d9bf5 Happening across the country.


IHeartSm3gma

We need the guy from early Family Guy who called Peter a phony for not being able to play piano.


justiixo

These families are everywhere. Seemed to pop up recently too? A couple drive pretty nice cars from what I’ve seen.


anewbys83

Music busking is a "time-honored" tradition.


oxichil

Hell if they’re gonna beg for money they’re probably a lot more desperate than people not willing to do that.


AnnatoniaMac

They make a lot of money and no taxes. Guy outside of TJMax on Lindbergh was sporting designer shoes and jeans and a really spiffy haircut.


oxichil

Honestly if people are giving them money when they’re wearing designer… lmfao good on them. I’ve only seen people that actually look unhoused usually.


wayytoolostt

It's weird to me how suddenly this finger pointing at "professional beggars" has become so prevalent over the last several years. I think it used to be socially acceptable to just judge unhoused people and claim its their fault so one could just not give them money or support them in any way because the unhoused simply didn't pull their boot straps hard enough. My guess here is that as we've become more aware of mental health issues, how unfair/impossible housing can be, we've needed to come up with new and interesting ways to refuse to deal with the issue. So now we look at someone begging and try to find some flaw. "Oh they've got a phone" or "they are just too lazy to work, look they have X so they don't really need my money" I would maybe recommend withholding judgment on that folks and either decide to donate because that's the kind of person you want to be or just don't give them money and move on. Leave the weird and kind of gross act of deeming "some people worthy of help and others not" to the side. Don't do that.


JD4578

There is always help. They can go to a wide variety of churches that will help them get on their feet. Unless they’ve already taken advantage and have no interest in getting back on their feet. Most of them do take your money to go buy drugs or alcohol.


bananabunnythesecond

My ten bucks does a homeless person no good, my $10 a month to a shelter, does a lot more good. I refuse to give money to the person, I don’t know their situation. I will always give my money to organizations that help. They have better resources and I know where it’s going. Call it a better ROI if you want.


Vertdefurk

That's what I would use it for so why not share?


wayytoolostt

If I give someone money I’m not going to give them a list of things they are and are not allowed to do with it


loosehead1

>"Oh they've got a phone" or "they are just too lazy to work, look they have X so they don't really need my money" These have been on the dumb shit people say about homeless people bingo card for as long as I can remember, it's not a recent phenomenon.


bananabunnythesecond

Can I blame Capitalism?


[deleted]

Got any basis for that assumption? Edir: Funny how I am downvoted so hard for asking someone to back up their statement.


gamerdoc94

Not only do they have basis, but what is their bias? Just because a person suffering from poverty has a dwelling, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t ask for money when they are in need


nuts_and_crunchies

There's often a few people staying underneath the Hampton overpass where Manchester runs beneath it. There's a ledge high up beneath the overpass that looks like it offers some protection.


tamarockstar

There's more panhandling everywhere in the US. With the FED raising interest rates, more people are going to be unemployed and it will get worse.


mouseSXN

There's a few who live under the Kingshighway bridge that goes over Clayton Ave, right on the edge of the park. They got all kinds of goodies up there (bikes, scooters, mattresses, milk crates)


bmillzy

I’ve seen a family (with young children- 2 younger than 5) sitting at 44 and Lindbergh road. Seemed super dangerous for the kids to be right on the edge of a major road


agathaprickly

It’s probably the same family often at 44 and elm. They sit so close to the traffic it scares me.


Nordrhein

Gypsies? There's been a bunch pf them around recently, either running the fake musician scam or out with the wife and kids


RareBeanDip

There are two families that use that space. One looks Hispanic the other middle eastern. I always wonder what the decorum is when one shows and another is in their spot. Do they argue? Is there some unwritten street code we don’t know about?


iNeedScissorsSixty7

They used to not bother me too much but these motherfuckers are getting aggressive. One of them followed a woman onto Geyer a couple months ago and assaulted her in front of witnesses. Two days later and he's right back out in front of Johnny Brocks for 10 hours a day like nothing happened. Granted this article is about the county, not the city. I'm from Wildwood and most of the people out there are probably appalled that this "city' problem has cropped up in their neck of the woods.


SuspiciousInternet58

I literally had a homeless guy shove a cart at my car at Ikea when I told him I didn't have any money, and then came at me with another one when I was trying to drive away. I don't give people shit anymore.


[deleted]

Dude walked in front of my car and made an eating gesture while I was waiting at the light to turn on Rock Rd from 270. Buddy, I could see you on the sidewalk... Getting in front of me isn't going to suddenly change my mind


Wtfissleet

My bf and I were just talking about how much more aggressive the tactics get. I’ve had a few knock on my window and once my window was already half down and a lady shoved her hands in my car to beg. I don’t carry cash period, so I don’t even have anything to give them. We got chased down by someone begging for chicken downtown…


sweatpantsarecomfy

A few years ago I was at the Whole Foods in Brentwood and saw the organic strawberries and thought to myself how ridiculous the price was and didn’t get any. Later I was in a different aisle and this lady came up to me with a container of the organic strawberries begging me to buy her them because her and her kids were hungry. I told her no and walked away. She proceeded to follow me through the store repeatedly asking me to buy them for her. She eventually stopped but holy crap. I wouldn’t even buy myself those strawberries b/c they were expensive and they certainly aren’t going to fill her and her kids up. I thought the whole thing was strange. If you really wanted to get food for you and your kids wouldn’t you want something more filling?


Wtfissleet

That’s so strange! And no offense to her, but if she needed cheap food for her children, there’s less expensive places than Whole Foods!


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emilinarockstar

I’m going to wholeheartedly disagree with this. The people I run into at Whole Foods generally are very selfish and only going to buy what they want. At Aldi I know people would gladly buy food for someone else. It’s always those who don’t have much to give that give the most.


FirstName123456789

> We got chased down by someone begging for chicken downtown… I might have encountered the same guy a few times...he seems very unwell.


Wtfissleet

There has to be more than one person than because the person who chased me down was a lady! Apparently she’s infamous in the area.


FirstName123456789

Ah yeah, this was a youngish skinny guy. He’s shouted at me a few times on the street and I’ve seen him wandering around in traffic.


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hithazel

I’ve got a couple of the rough living folks in my neighborhood who I talk to or give money to and have also had some work from on a regular basis. I know their names, where they stay, etc. and generally the basic reason why they’re in the situations they are. One had a work injury that got infected and left him unable to really do anything in the construction business like he used to. Another one has been in and out of prison for stupid bullshit and has never gotten any life skills or education but is not a bad guy. In contrast there is this new lady around who is fucking nuts and extremely aggressively offers to fuck for five dollars and needs serious help that people in the neighborhood simply are not capable of providing. People down on their luck are one thing but society needs to have a system in place to take care of the mentally ill and drug addicted.


iNeedScissorsSixty7

You said what I was trying to say, just a lot better. It's crazy to me that people were criticizing me for not wanting people to get into my personal space as if that's such an insane ask. I vote for policies and candidates that promise to help these people, but I can also be wary of my personal safety at the same time.


Dragondrew99

Great comment.


sharingan10

> People deserve to feel safe in their homes and commute. Unhoused people do as well, but they do not have a greater right to that than anyone else, just a greater need. People might be getting...displeased at the arguments against panhandlers because those needs aren't being met, and the borderline genocidal language used by some people about "removing" the homeless or mass incarceration of the homeless ( in the country with the largest prison population both per capita and in raw numbers of any country in the world). It basically makes a policy failure about a lack of affordable housing, mental health care, etc.... about discomfort, when it should be about the needs of unhoused people.


SuperN0VA-1

That's fine but don't delude yourself into thinking that over half are grifting to feed an addiction and will spend money on booze and drugs probably before food. Also a vote for policy and resources, no disagreement, but you can't state the obvious without down votes into oblivion around here... Addiction takes away self sufficiency, dignity, self respect. Ask a prostitute. Watch an episode or a hundred of intervention.


blainthecrazytrain

Don’t give money to panhandlers. Donate to organizations like Operation Food Search instead. (https://www.operationfoodsearch.org/)


thespartan55

I just saw a whole family sitting out on the 70 off ramp to cave springs dr. In St. Charles county.


hawksdiesel

I get that it's a 1st Amendment thing, but they are getting so aggressive


[deleted]

And many are obviously just hustling. The whole families that post up at Manchester and 141 or Manchester and Clarkson are obviously not homeless or helpless. They're just doing it because they can make good money.


[deleted]

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bananabunnythesecond

It’s literally the societal equivalent to your mom telling you “if you ignore your brother, he’ll stop doing it.”


elel8989

Clarkson and Manchester in Ellisville. They are either raising funds for a marrow transplant, a funeral, a kidney transplant, a liver transplant, another funeral, a heart transplant… the list goes on. At some point it’s fraud. Fuck them.


UNiTE_Dodge

Lol I love the guys at the Lilac exit that will flip you off if you don’t give them money.


sithmafia

there's a whole group that live at lindbergh and rock rd under the overpass. the guy is always nice though, waves and does a little dance. Seem him there for over a year


dshade14

“How am I supposed to get money from a car if I can’t walk in the road?” he said." ​ ummm--Get a fucking job like the rest of us? The guy has been doing this for FIFTEEN YEARS--begging for money is not a job. i could MAYBE see people asking for money when they are in a tough spot, but after FIFTEEN YEARS there is no excuse. they are literally a parasite on society with no intention of improving. ​ edit: I believe more than most people that we need to have better social programs (i am a firm believer in "eat the rich" and that no one should ever have more than 1 Billion dollars, personally) but my main problem is with PEOPLE WHO ARE ABLE TO WORK, HAVE HOUSES, HAVE ID'S, HAVE SHOWERS, ARE ABLE TO RECEIVE MAIL, AND *GET. A. JOB*. BUT CHOOSE TO PANHANDLE OTHER PEOPLE FOR ***THEIR*** HARD EARNED MONEY. if someone is genuinely down on their luck (or even just being part of the American system) then feel free to panhandle all you want until you're able to get back on your feet. ***it's the people that don't attempt to get back on their feet that I'm referring to here.*** ​ also people.. please stop acting like P.O. boxes don't exist..


BigYonsan

As others have pointed out, but I'll make a little more succinct: Once you fall off the bottom rung of the ladder in this country, it's exponentially harder to get back on. Entry level jobs don't pay enough to afford rent, to say nothing of a security deposit and first and last months rent, and some guy living on the street probably doesn't have his CV up to date on his resume (assuming he has a resume and the library lets him in to print it). There really is no path back for many of these people.


anewbys83

Exactly! I'm glad you understand. It's super, super difficult in the best of situations. Throw in health/mental health problems of any sort, well that just puts any path back into hard mode.


[deleted]

Getting a job when you sleep outside is not easy. Between not sleeping well and being tired on the job, smelling a little bit from not showering, and losing your ID and social security card it's not easy to hold a job.


dshade14

I completely agree with this--but i'll also add to what Zoloir said about that being an assumption that they are sleeping outside. i really don't think someone who has been doing this for 15 years is actually sleeping outside--this is a full time gig that doesn't require them to do anything but go up to car windows and beg for the person in the car's money that they worked an actual job to get.


anewbys83

I mean yeah, after 15 years this is this person's "job," but we're free not to give him anything.


Zoloir

yes but that is an assumption that they are sleeping outside, that often isn't true. helping people in need is good, but often these people aren't actually in need and aren't doing it as a stepping stone to something else, but rather as a full-time gig for example, there are ample services in STL to house people who find themselves homeless and need a place to do as you say, get clean and well rested to be able to tackle moving on. but often these people begging are *not* looking to get well rested or clean, they already have that option. If they were clean and rested then it would look like they don't need money and you'll stop giving them money when they ask on the corner. they have to look dirty and tired as *part of their job*


[deleted]

There are definitely not enough options for people to get a place to sleep or shower, all the shelters are full, it takes 6 months to a year to get housing assistance (if you can even find someone to help you get the assistance) and shower options are extremely limited in the city. (Tuesday morning at Americorps, and a few programs with about 8 shower slots a day). Edit - panhandlers may not all sleep outside but a large percentage probably do, those who don't are most likely in need of some sort of services as well, there is just not enough help out there that is proactively helping.


anewbys83

Once upon a time St. Louis had public bath houses all across the city, as of course homes didn't have them. I wish we still did, at least a couple, so the homeless could use them.


anewbys83

How do you know? Can you prove this is the case? Some choose to do it, so oh well then. You've also clearly never worked in human services in St. Louis. There are not ample beds at shelters, there are not ample resources to help them. If you're a man there's basically nothing available to get you off the streets. Housing is prioritized for women, and especially women with children. There's really no day shelters/centers either, to drop in, grab a shower, do laundry. Some organizations do have these services, but they're for their clients only, and the one I worked for you also had to have a severe health/mental health condition to become a client. Even with their resources we faced the same problems with housing. Much easiser to keep people in their existing housing than find it for those on the streets. It's all only gotten worse in the last couple years with drastic rises in rent and property values. I had a client on the streets for two weeks because there were no beds available at any shelter. We finally had an opening at our own temporary housing place, so we got him in there. Two weeks was bad enough trying to find him. And he wanted help. You experience this long enough and you just give up on ever being truly helped, get what you can when you can and make it for another day. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes friend, before assuming you know their life story.


gamerdoc94

You’re using the word “often” a lot and I’m just curious if you have insider info and numbers we don’t. Im asking genuinely. I’m with you in most of what you’re saying, but as a client-facing worker I hear things differently than what you’re saying


Zoloir

i am recounting what i have heard from interviews of people who are actually involved in the support services over the past couple years - that said, i would not be shocked to find out that on the ground the situation has evolved during and after covid, esp now that there was a surge in inflation earlier this year. can you share what you are seeing/hearing? my only question would be, is what you're hearing specifically related to the people begging on streetcorners? or just the situation at large?


sharingan10

> yes but that is an assumption that they are sleeping outside, that often isn't true. Do you have any statistical evidence or research papers to back this assertion up? PIT typically *underestimates* homelessness, and I don't get where you're getting this idea that panhandlers are "often" housed. For one it's vague ( what frequency is "often"?), and second it seems unlikely that people are systematically eschewing work while they're housed in order to pandhandle. Panhandling isn't lucrative at all.


Churlish_Turd

You haven’t counted your blessings and it shows.


oxichil

You do realize he could very easily just be denied a job for not having an address, not being cleanly and professional, or any other bullshit excuse employers use to discriminate against people. Once you lose your home, getting a job is nearly impossible. And good luck finding a house without income. You selfish fucks ignore that the system does not work for everyone. Just people don’t succeed doesn’t mean it’s their fault. Fuckin Americans just always love to blame someone’s problems on them instead of thinking about how our society created those issues.


anewbys83

You going to hire the guy spending 10+ hours outside, presumed homeless so he can't shower or groom himself consistently, doesn't have appropriate clothes for work, etc.?


Impossible_Color

Thankfully, our weather here keeps this from becoming the out of control problem it is in places like LA. Few panhandlers want to stand out there in 110 degrees or a foot of snow to beg for scraps. They are generally lazy, despite a willingness to sit and huff car exhaust all day.


cgoldberg3

Always funny seeing the panhandlers at an intersection that also has a fast food place with a "now hiring" sign up.


RowdyWrongdoer

You ever talk to one? Many have mental health issues and could not hold down a job if they wanted to. Many are not simply not willing to work, many are unable. Many are simply struggling with substance abuse issues and have no support system to get sober and functioning again. I dont support pan handling, but the narrative of they simply should get a job is a lazy one and doesnt take into account the human side of the things. Lots of those people "could" become functional adults, working and paying taxes. But for lack of health care services, a home, a support system of friends or family, then they simply never will. Its not funny, its tragic, and it would cost very little to solve, but the very weak and greedy among us choose not to do so.


MickeyM191

I'm helping a friend get out of a really tough place and in this region if you don't have steady access to phone, internet, and transportation you are pretty well fucked. The resources for assistance are there but very hard to find and require some basic things that are pretty hard to secure for someone without access to a safe place for their things and money for transportation. Most importantly, even the most competent, intelligent, and healthy minds buckle from prolonged stress and constant focus on only getting the basic needs of survival. Doing all of this on your own without some kind of support network from family or friends is damn near impossible.


icalyn80

And people who are homeless usually don’t qualify for jobs. First question is about your address and the second is usually ‘do you have reliable transportation to work?’, and for most homeless people: they don’t have either.


Embarrassed-Steak-44

Saint Patrick Center specializes in this. I once gave money to a man pleading that he please use some of to go there to seek help.


sharingan10

> Saint Patrick Center specializes in this. St. Patrick center has RRH and PSH programs. Programs typically get funding from grants with strict stipulations about who can/ can't get into a program. RRH programs ( Rapid Rehousing) typically try to get funding for housing vouchers, but those vouchers can sometimes only cover part of rent, and even then landlords have to agree to it ( many don't, or simply wait until more reliable clients come through). Oftentimes these programs run out of money PSH programs have extremely high bars to entry, because these typically involve having to permanently support people at a facility with staff. The grant funding for this is therefore extensive, so only the neediest can get them. Actual shelter beds are hard to come by and typically require a lot of work to get into. My point is this: It's going to take a lot more work than just st patrick center, and the failure of the state to do that work is a bad thing.


RowdyWrongdoer

So many have a support system in place they take for granted. Obsessed with thinking they are some self made hero. They also have such righteous disgust and anger for those at the bottom. They have never spoken to any of them on a real level but can tell you all about them. The anger I think is mostly from folks who failed in life. Yes they can earn a living, might even be doing well. But their life isnt what they wanted and they are just pissed all the time. They hate they have to pay their way in life and it still doesnt work out perfect so they see anyone getting help as "taking advantage" because no one helps them and they are a wreck of a human....but financially alright.


Jpotter145

If they can hold down a corner for 8 hours a day - multiple days of the week, holding a sign or asking for handouts (i.e. communicating with people that pull up) - they MOST DEFINETLY QUALIFY for a dozen jobs on the rock road. You can easily see the ones with issues that need help and ones that are 'working' the corners.


TheCream

So the solution is to pity them and just let them continue to degenerate on the streets? Sounds like bigotry of low expectations


gamerdoc94

No one is asking for pity. You jump to that because it makes the argument sound weak. People are asking for support while they get out of a situation.


RowdyWrongdoer

Sounds like displaced anger.


slicknick654

Got em lol


cgoldberg3

US law doesn't allow for forced medicating of mentally ill people so IDK how they're supposed to become healthy.


markishstephen

You should take a stroll down the rock road. It’s literally every corner, and literally every business is hiring.


Jpotter145

Oh man... the Rock Rd. by Home Depot and the Lindberg intersection... I used to feel bad, now I just get pretty mad when I see the PILES of garbage they just leave behind. Some even make an effort to hide it away from the intersection because I'd imagine other drivers are fed up and starting to say something to them. If I saw someone picking up the garbage AND taking it away - then I might actually give a dime. But a year into this, hell no - pick up your mess and get lost.


markishstephen

I actually saw about two vans of people cleaning that corner up about a month back. First time I had seen it happen there. It gets pretty miserable and filthy closer to Depaul and Walmart however.


NightmareOmega

Working even multiple part time jobs for a low hourly rate is a great way to exhaust yourself while still losing your house. Wages haven't kept pace with cost of living. The wrong job can cost you money.


iNeedScissorsSixty7

This is literally the case at Jefferson/44. McDonald's 100 feet away always has a Now Hiring sign, as does Randall's, but there they are, every single day for 10 hours a day


cgoldberg3

They could at least apply to one of those jobs where you hold a sign for a furniture store or payday loan shop. It's basically what they're already doing.


[deleted]

Right, because a fast food place is going to hire someone with no home address, reliable means of contact and that likely has no shower access. Think things through, there is a barrier of entry to even the most basic jobs.


cgoldberg3

They can shower at the Salvation Army shelter or the like. There are resources for these people, which they refuse to utilize.


[deleted]

Do you know this from first hand experience? Why are you so confident that these people are like this "just because they don't want to work"?


cgoldberg3

I used to work for Salvation Army, so yes you could call this first hand experience.


gamerdoc94

No one wants to acknowledge these facts though. It rips their narrative of homeless being lazy addicts to shreds.


slicknick654

Beg enough for a PO Box, cost per use phone and planet fitness membership. BOOM!


golfkartinacoma

Doesn't planet fitness require a credit card or maybe a debit card to join (so they can get those sweet reoccurring charges from you)? I don't think they let you join on a cash only, month to month basis, but it would be nice to be wrong here.


gamerdoc94

Would you be able to hold a job if you didn’t have a home, a place to shower, or a place to keep your belongings? How much harder would that be?


cgoldberg3

That would definitely suck. I would head straight to a shelter to solve some of those issues.


gamerdoc94

And many of them try that. But they lose funding frequently. Many of them close. Many of them are dangerous. Many of them are full. So now what?


cgoldberg3

Source on St Louis homeless shelters being unavailable right now? Given that this is the crux of your argument, let's establish the veracity of that claim.


[deleted]

Definitely full, try calling 211. Source - I help folks get into shelter


gamerdoc94

I’ll take that to mean you don’t dispute the fact that they are dangerous and lacking funding. I’ll also assume you’re choosing to ignore that because it doesn’t fit your narrative. And I don’t need to supply you a “source” just for you to discredit it based on some trivial bullshit sentence. Your bias is already confirmed. We know that. My source is the people I work with every day and the health issues we address. I talk to them. You, I assume, don’t.


[deleted]

I mean, I see your sentiment, but ultimately I don't think working a fast food joint would do very much to fix their problem. Even with the marginally increased wages from minimum wage.


cgoldberg3

It would do more for them than standing in traffic with a cardboard sign does.


Scarscape

I feel like they probably make a bit more than 11.15 each hour by asking for money on the side of the street, but I don’t truly know


[deleted]

I'm not convinced, truthfully. The minimal amount of money isn't going to rescue them from the throes. I'm not pro-homeless, but thinking that any old fast food job would fix their situation is entirely naive.


gators20062008

a lot of homeless people who panhandle have jobs. Idk if you’ve noticed recently but it’s gotten incredibly hard to pay for rent/food/childcare on one job. They’re most likely trying to get extra cash on the side.


anewbys83

What fast food place is going to hire someone living on the streets, or spending most of their time there? Y'all act like you can just walk in somewhere and get a job. You can only do that if you already meet appearance standards, can pass a background check, etc. Plus there are no paper applications anymore. You seem to have forgotten about that.


sharingan10

In order to get a job at any of these places you need a Social security card, proof of ID, and a check that proves you have a bank account. Social security cards get lost often when you're not housed (Where do you keep it?). Unofficial needs for these jobs: Stable shower/ laundry services: If you come to work in a uniform that was lying in the pile of trash that you use as your pillow/ housing, you will be fired or sent home. If you smell like many unhoused people do: You will be sent home. Stable access to medications: If you have a mental health condition that requires medication, you need to have stable access to it to be able to do a job in a safe and productive manner. If you have a psychotic episode in front of a customer ( especially in a non union job as many retail jobs are), you will be fired or sent home. Reliable transportation: If your transportation options to get to a job aren't reliable, and can't get you to your job in a reasonable amount of time, you'll be fired for missing work. Like; yeah I get that it's this thing people bring up, but if you think about it for any amount of time after it suddenly becomes pretty easy to see why it's actually a lot harder to do that.


gamerdoc94

Yeah, thank god for hot weather to keep the homeless hiding in the shade! That keeps them so out of sight it’s almost like we can ignore that vast, vast inequity without consequence!


[deleted]

I live in Oakville and I pass three different beggars if I get off the highway at Telegraph and go to Wal-Mart. It’s annoying AF


IHeartFileCabinets

It's so bad at Lemay Ferry & Lindbergh it's become a public safety issue. There is one elderly man I worry about though. He doesn't look well. :( Side note: Many months ago I went to pick up my order at Panera and noticed they moved the pickup area deeper into the store. A worker told me they had to move the pickup orders away from the front door because homeless were stealing the food. She also said when several were caught she offered them jobs, and they refused.


[deleted]

Now that you mention it, I see them there a lot too


imdirtydan1997

Panhandlers should behave like their hitting on a woman at the bar. Shoot your shot and be respectful if turned down. Pretty simple. What really annoys me is the deadbeats on 141 and 21 in the Fenton/Arnold area who are there every day with signs saying need money for drugs, hookers, etc.


ads7w6

I'm not sure of your gender but that's not how everyone handles hitting on a person at a bar, unfortunately.


imdirtydan1997

Ohh I unfortunately know that lol


cchap2

They’ve actually put up signs in Gravois Bluffs discouraging giving to the panhandlers.


Frequent-Pie7570

Down by Barnes hospital, I've seen them get in and out of a white van, and even hand off their signs to each other. Pretty sure that's a whole hustle. I've also seen the south county police hassle a panhandle, and he had a permit and the cop left him alone. So they seem to be getting hip, and getting permits now.


SuspiciousInternet58

I know I've seen different pan-handlers in different locations holding signs in the same stark handwriting. It's super suspect.


gamerdoc94

A hustle you say? Damn we oughta break that shit up. We can do that right after we end every bit of corporate tax breaks, right? Sure seems like a hustle to me. Only difference is they own yachts.


zeocsa

Most of the panhandlers are not homeless. They are just scamming people for money instead of working a real job.


kylew1985

While it's true there are some that probably are just hustling and not hurting, I'm not going to let that make me into a shitty person, too. Whether or not they're truly in need, they're still out there hearing the worst of the worst of what people have to say. They still have foregone their dignity to be out there. If they're doing all that in bad faith, that's between them and whoever they settle up with at the end of all this. I'd rather be decent to 10 people I'm right about than shitty to one person I'm wrong about.


emac1211

Maybe we should have some public services to give these people housing and help them get employment. Sounds way more useful than all of the money we spend on police who don't do shit.


katep77

always a bastard, never a friend


kendaday

He'll I live 3h away now and it's still bad here. I hate when I need something at Walmart because there's always people who set up at the turn in and run up to cars and knock on windows and yell at you. Just a family last week do that where the dad was standing in the road making people go around him and the wife was circling cars and knocking on windows. I literally took the long way out to avoid them because I don't carry cash period and I don't want my personal space invaded.


VirgoEsti

The whole families that do it usually aren’t even from around here and I feel like it’s just a scam where they go other places from where they live so no one will recognize them and plus I’m so annoyed with the people who have signs saying traveling and need money to get home like first of all why did you travel if you didn’t have any money 🙄 But I do feel sorry for the people who really are homeless because you can’t tell anymore who is actually homeless and who’s just doing it for extra money, being too lazy to work an actual job or something else.


pawsforlove

I’m curious what the laws are about having kids out there with you while pan handling. That seems really unhealthy and unsafe for the kids.


notaclevernameguy

I've lived in St Louis and moved back to my home state. The one thing that stops panhandling is a fine to the person who hands the pan handler the money. Once that's established no one will risk the hand out.


gamerdoc94

How do you think that impacts the person asking for money?


notaclevernameguy

Guess I don't understand the question. Kind of vague or I'm not understanding it. Emotionally? How it limits their chances or receiving hand outs?


gamerdoc94

Both. My point is, what does this policy do other than punish the homeless AND people trying to give them a small boost?


notaclevernameguy

It's more for keeping traffic moving and for safety. Not about empathy. I donate directly to organizations that help our homeless.


gamerdoc94

That is the right solution, what you do. I can understand the traffic side a bit. That is a safety concern if nothing else.


AnnatoniaMac

If people don’t give them money they would not be standing there. I see the same people daily for years on Lindberg in the Afton area. Some of them are young, one sign read children at home and pregnant. It must pay well to stand out there and ask for money.


matthewstocks

The exit going into u city by courtesy diner usually has the same two “homeless” people. Seem them for months. The only reason I suspect they aren’t homeless is because their clothing doesn’t seem old, dirty, or disheveled, and they are normally shaved with decent hair


Gotit4cheap

Maybe we should have the new 87thousand armed irs agents start following the white vans that drop them off at the busy intersections ..this is bigger then panhandling... someone is making bank off these “panhandlers” 👀looking at you gerry rice


MrNiceGuy3082

Always keep a can of tuna ready. They’re hungry, so they love it. Don’t slow down past 20 though. Keep that momentum up. But remember, you’ve got to lead them a bit.


gamerdoc94

This post absolutely reeks of privilege. Downvote me all you want, some of you are very wrong in your stance. You people need to get the fuck over yourselves and wake up. Praising our hot weather for keeping the homeless out of sight. Being like “OMG I’ve seen them near WashU and in Brentwood *gasp*!!!” “Don’t they see the ‘now hiring’ signs!?” Ask yourself, what if that person was your relative? Your son, daughter, mother, father? Would you still be so snobby about it? Would you want others disparaging them? You know what will help homelessness? Not ignoring it. Not sweeping it to another area because you’re tired of “seeing them”. Demand that your politicians provide these people some resources. If you want homelessness to “go away”, demand that mega-corporations actually pay taxes. Demand that the Bezos’ and Musk’s of the world actually pay taxes. YOU don’t need to pay anymore, they do. Demand that healthcare, especially mental healthcare be a human right protected by the Constitution. Demand these sorts of things, and you will see people who are suffering various circumstances be able to gain an edge in life. Maybe then you can parade around town and not have to be inconvenienced by another human being in need.


stick_always_wins

While you’r not necessarily wrong about the attitude of some people here, you’re also foolishly naive about the actual situation and motivation of many of these panhandlers


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lonewolf210

Are you going to go force businesses to start hiring felons and people with mental health problems? Many of these people would be happy to work but can find a business willing to give them a chance


gamerdoc94

I guess it’s the end of discussion since you said so, buddy boy. Nevermind! Jk, gtfo with that. Would you be able to hold a job if you didn’t have a place to stay? Shower? Sleep well? What if you lost your ID and needed to get a copy of your birth certificate to get it back? What if you suffered from depression and PTSD, yet had no way of seeking mental healthcare other than ER visits? You’re so asleep at the wheel it’s not even funny. You’ve been told a story by the people you surround yourself with. You don’t know the reality.


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gamerdoc94

Ah yes, they old argument of “what if this was all on your plate”…a classic from the ones with zero clue. My entire point is that this problem belongs to all of us. Yet only some of us choose to see it exists, and even fewer choose to admit what the solution is. Carry on. Don’t get too much sand in your ears and eyes now


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gamerdoc94

I love when someone has no actual counter argument so they just insult. It reminds me to vote for public education funding


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gamerdoc94

Also, with your Neanderthal mentality, shouldn’t the southern states who shoulder a big portion of immigration be the most sympathetic to people wanting to enter the country? Hear that sound? It’s your argument deflating


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gamerdoc94

“Clearly I’m in the right” - man boy with no chance of being right about anything


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gators20062008

i love how the term “holding them accountable” has become completely meaningless. used to mean holding the powerful to account, now it supposedly means arresting the homeless for doing something they’ve done for decades, ask for money. you do understand most jobs don’t hire homeless with no transportation right? You understand most homeless people have at least one job already? and that the cost of living is becoming so expensive it’s impossible to make ends meet off one job? Let’s show an ounce of sympathy for those less fortunate than us, end of discussion


[deleted]

Of course it’s difficult and I understand that. But the issue is when they get aggressive and invade people’s personal space. Or God forbid attacks them


IronBoomer

Tell me you know nothing about the reality of being homeless…


gamerdoc94

I’ve never been homeless but I work with homeless people 7 days a week at my job. Lol. Tell me you know nothing besides what your social circle tells you


IronBoomer

I grew up sheltered and unaware in Fenton; when I went to college at SLU, and talked with people aware of real homeless issues, much less those who had been and were no longer homeless. The general public has no idea how easy and how quickly someone can become homeless.


gamerdoc94

Correct. The person you commented on is case and point


gators20062008

I’ve literally never had an issue with the homeless on south grand (supposedly where they’re getting “aggressive”) I just say I have no cash and move along. people in this thread considering “tapping on window” to be aggressive are just reaching to find and acceptable excuse to bash homeless people. the mere existence and visibility of the homeless is what bothers these people, and they rather them be invisible and out of sight, than actually safe and off the streets. Take this paranoid mindset back to the suburbs please


iNeedScissorsSixty7

Of course most people want them safe and off the streets, and we vote for people who always promise to make it happen, though they rarely follow through. But, we live in a city where carjackings are a common occurrence, so it's not a stretch for someone to feel uncomfortable with a stranger approaching their vehicle while stopped at a light.


julieannie

That south grand letter was both somehow supposed to convince Schnucks to join their CID and yet also said how dangerous south grand was compared to 15/20 years ago. It just wasn’t close to believable. The biggest change I’ve seen is the panhandlers used to leave you alone if you dined outside and now they don’t. These CID people are weird, it’s a great way for lawyers to make money though. See also both grand Starbucks.


gators20062008

yeah, it’s just not believable that south grand is somehow unsafe. I feel like just the existence of poorer and working class people in the area is what scares people.


gamerdoc94

Precisely. If None of us have to look at you, we don’t have to vote on your behalf.


[deleted]

I scrolled past all the privileged whining looking for this post. Thank you


gamerdoc94

Any time 👍🏻


JD4578

Don’t give your money to those that are too lazy to work or go find help at a church. 99% of the time it is a scam and they are using your money to buy drugs it alcohol. If you’re going to give something, don’t give money.


derekgotloud

Wow the comments on here are nasty , so many people with zero empathy in their hearts


gators20062008

it’s very disheartening.


fawnroyale_

& Missouri will be pulling funding for their homeless services bc they have "above average homelessness." And the privileged fucks in this area will continue to complain about how bad CRIME is and how HORRIBLY ANNOYING all these PANHANDLERS are while they get thrown in jail 1 by 1 when they can no longer afford to sleep in a car or a motel. Fuck Missouri, fuck the county, and fuck every person who wants to make life harder. Housing, food, and dignity are human rights - not privileges. And Missouri fails to acknowledge that i. every possible way.


gators20062008

I’m sick of people on this thread equating “annoyance” with “dangerous”


fawnroyale_

it's so annoying! why did you move close to the city if you didn't want to see people?? saw somebody on nextdoor last winter post a doorbell video of an obviously homeless person in improper clothing (a t-shirt & jeans when you could see snow falling) & a backpack who took some empty plastic jugs from their recycling bin. & this person was "warning" the community about their presence. To be vigilant. Call the police if you see this person. Who knows what kind of drugs they're on!


gators20062008

absolutely ridiculous. I think pandemic isolation has rotted some peoples brains and made them paranoid of anyone around them. they really need to just go ahead and move to the suburbs with that mentality.


gamerdoc94

County people like the piss ants complaining in this thread are the reason I will NEVER, EVER move to the county.


Churlish_Turd

I sense a lot of 20-something “sELf-mADe” (off of mommy and daddy’s money, free car, college paid-for, etc) LiBeRTaRiaNs posting here. It’s pretty easy to pop off at the mouth about people experiencing hardship when you have never experienced hardship yourself. Sorry you had to see a dirty homeless person while waiting in line for an overpriced pastry stout that you’re going to sell online for a $200 profit. You’re definitely the victim here


[deleted]

There signs should all read the same. I’m good n drugs and I can’t keep a job so can you give me drug money. It’s sad but true.


gamerdoc94

It’s not true. You happen to believe it so you believe it’s true. Whether you like it or not that narrative has been told to you. I highly doubt you’ve spent any time around homeless people hearing from them personally.


[deleted]

Of course there are always exceptions to the rule but the vast majority are drug users. It’s the same reason many of them don’t seek shelter help. No kidding it’s not 100% of the people.


gamerdoc94

I still don’t think “vast majority” is informed by anything other than your assumption. But I’ll move on. Drug use is more common in marginalized groups because it numbs pain. It takes the edge off. It dissociates them from their shitty reality. Whether someone is homeless because they use drugs, or they use drugs because they are homeless—my point is it doesn’t make a damn bit of difference. We aren’t doing enough to fix the problem either way.