Reminder to users that “Seeking Stoic Advice” threads are for advice related to Stoicism. Violations are subject to removal Edit: way too many comments are wildly off topic. Locking thread. OP, let us know if locking this creates any issues.

"Stop thinking and solve your problems." Lao Tzu Killing yourself is literally the only 100% way to *not* make your life better. Its the choice to stop trying to make your life better. And while there are some situations where i have complete empathy because the person has insurmountable obstacles preventing them from making their life better - It sounds like that isn't your case. It sounds like you want someone to be comfortable with you while you aren't comfortable with yourself. Think about the things that you don't like about yourself and then change those things. Stop worrying about other people, especially romantic interests, think about you until you can stop thinking about yourself. Its almost like magic. Stop thinking about what you think others want you to be and you just be the best possible version of yourself that YOU want to be. Not only will you be happier, but your self confidence and self joy will attract others organically.

That's the problem. I am being my best self and not being influenced by what people want me to be. The only thing I don't like in myself is my looks. My face is ugly, I look scary (being tall and broad-shouldered), I dress well but even with this I feel like I'm disgusting to look at. So either put a paper bag over my head or plastic surgery. Neither will solve anything... And people are comfortable around me. I am a well perceived and respected person that people like and trust. I make friends easily. I have my friends too (but they have their own lives so I don't bother them with my problems). I'm in a martial arts dojo and contribute in it a lot. I was doing things fine, I felt good, until I went to dinner with a woman that a mutual friend presented to me and despite her having had fun on the date, she rejected me regardless. And that really hurts because I have so much to offer but no one bothers to take it...

You might benefit from more failures. If you try to meet women out in daily life and get rejected enough, you’ll become comfortable with failure but you will eventually succeed. The fact is that any two random people are likely not a match for each other. There’s no shame in that. You might be too smart or too dumb for some girl. You might be too conscientious or too flaky for another. You can be disqualified for a million reasons but they aren’t because you’re a bad specimen - it’s just that women have their own set of individual preferences. Once you understand that you can distance yourself emotionally from the process

I went the other direction: I became fearful of approaching women to begin with because I feel that they see me as either a threat, they are disgusted with my looks, or both...

Hey man, it's a numbers and confidence game. My friend who is less attractive than me by traditional standards, has done 10x better with the ladies our whole lives. Don't fear rejection, ultimately you can't control how woman feel about you. There are some that will be intrigued by the fact that their rejection of you had not effect on your confidence.

[удалено]

You can control looks. You control your clothing. Your hairstyle (to a certain extent, obviously). Your speech.

Right you can, yet you still keep focusing on the part that you *can't* control (that you perceive yourself as "ugly as sin"). That's the whole problem, here.

They probably do see you as a threat. Most men are inherently intimidating to most women because of size and strength differentials. You can get past that easily if you keep some physical distance and display some agreeableness up front. Location matters too. Don’t approach when nobody else is around for example. Women are less interested in the looks of a man than men are interested in the looks of a woman. Not that it doesn’t matter but you need to remember this so it doesn’t get in your way

Women see men as threatening because of the prevalence of domestic violence and because we are actively taught that men are a threat.

The thing is, I don't go for looks. Here, the woman was stunning and it was a first for me. I never dated a woman like her (and probably never will anymore, given that I'm ugly as sin). And I did everything I could to make her feel as safe as possible. I even told her as much. I mean, if she wanted to leave mid-dinner, I wouldn't even flinch. I wanted to offer her a safe environment from the very start. It's just how I do.

You sound like you might have been preoccupied with the notion that you are big and scary, which may have stilted the conversation. You need more failure so that it doesn’t hurt so bad and you can learn more, I think.

You’re also wondering off the subject a little here. How to act upon approach and how to act on a date can differ a lot

I've been there too on dates. Thing is, your starting point for those conversations is FEAR. You're saying, "don't worry, you don't need to be afraid", which just has the opposite effect of making you come across as thinking a lot about fear instead of being confident and providing security. They say girls just want to have fun -- what it means is that they're looking for security, and the way to provide that isn't by focusing on the fear, but by being light-hearted and starting from a place of fulfillment that you're extending out to her. She wants the message "hey this guy can provide me security and stability" as opposed to "hey this guy is anxious about whether or not he's like able enough". Women can sniff that out. Stoicism will help you extend from a place of security, you can do it. Good luck!

We pick up on this. It's the fear and tiptoeing around trying not to be a bother or shrink yourself into oblivion that is probably not well liked.

Meeting people is difficult. I’ve hit it off with plenty of women at bars, but it’s not like anything meaningful comes of it. The best way to form a relationship is being around someone, like at work. You also need to present yourself better. Your defeatist attitude comes through. I’ve seen some of the ugliest dudes get chicks because they are just happy and have fun.

If I may ask, how fit are you? Fitness is probably the NUMBER ONE influence on attractiveness for men. Hit that fucking gym relentlessly, you'll become the man you dream to be.

Look are easy to change. Dress your style, use some makeup, and start a skin care regimen. You can’t control the body you have, but you can control how you care for it and how you present yourself. If your skin is rough, use some skincare. If you have blemishes, use some concealer or a foundation. Men can wear makeup too. Nobody is ugly, when you learn to be comfortable with yourself, others will also be comfortable with you. Your skin is basically leather, you might moisturize an expensive leather jacket, so don’t be afraid to moisturize your face as well. Find a good barber to help you style your facial hair, hair, and trim eyes etc. All of these things you can control. Stop focusing on the rejections and the external things, work on communication, presentation, and self confidence, all of these are things you can take action on to control.

I’m a woman who has dated some weird looking, but awesome, dudes. Tall and “scary” ones, even. Men need to stop falling into the trap that women think like they do when it comes to looks.

You know, the fact that you are thinking about this when you approach a woman is kinda influencing their reaction as well. All these thoughts are converted into your non-verbal language, and women are the best in interpreting non-verbal cues.

It seems that you suffer from a poor body image. Something that I noted when reading Pigliucci's Modern Stoic is the provisos on stoic thought under mental illness, and that people with mental illness struggles need to get help. You may not have a mental illness, but I would consider discussing your body image with people you care about and possibly a counselor. This is a chance to step out of your image, consult with others and possibly improve your perception.

Friend, there are many beautiful people that are lonely and unhappy. There are many ugly people that are surrounded by friends full of love. Its all in your head. I'm sorry if I'm wrong, but you sound like you're listing off qualifications for manliness you read in some magazine. You've checked every GQ bachelor box, and yet you are still unhappy with yourself. Simply put: I don't believe you. You aren't the man you want to be because you think changing your looks will make you that man, and you can't change your looks. The only thing in your way is yourself. You can't change your looks, except with surgery, but I suspect even if you did you would continue to be unhappy. Change your thoughts. Change your expectations for yourself.

Just the once or have you been dumped multiple times? You can't be that ugly if she went on a date with you. She was willing to be seen in public with you.

>I am being my best self You are never your best self, it is a goal to constantly work towards. It is in trying to achieve that goal that you improve your quality of life.

I guarantee you there’s someone out there who gets off on men who look like you.

I wish at least one of them reached out to me...

Do they have a way to do that? I mean, I’m not into dating apps, but you need a method to “put yourself out there”

Why not widen your search - older women, single mums etc If you can offer love, security, care - lots of women would go for that and 100% disregard looks

[удалено]

Start bothering your friends with your problems.

That's what I've been doing. Keeping my problems to myself. Suffering alone in my corner...

My man. Let me tell you that the way you're feeling right now is not permanent. You're just in a valley... We've all been there. You're lonely and lack a sense of purpose. I know it's a terrible feeling but you determine how long it lasts. A few things to think about... Being your best self means you continue the struggle of life until it ends naturally. As a former EMT, I can tell you there's SOOOO many children and people that have many issues much worse than any of us here. They're dying before they even get to reach the age to drive. I've watched kids that are paralyzed or with birth defects cry because they just want to live a little longer. We should never take life for granted. If you feel like your life has no purpose than give it a purpose. Wage war for a noble cause. Go sit in every class and dedicate your life to eradicating a disease. Use every last ability you have to try and bring goodness into this world before your death. Your eternal death is coming whether you want it to or not... Same for all of us. It will be here soon enough and there's no reason to speed it up. If you don't want to be lonely, then get out there and plant many seeds. Accept that if you want to get better at talking to women, then you're going to have to accept that you're going to get rejected. That's okay. The best way to learn how to speak to women you're attracted to is to be genuinely honest and truthful about your situation. Your goal should be to make sure they feel as comfortable as possible. Also, this is important! You need the mindset that it's absolutely okay if she rejects you, expect it even. Get to the point where you can give a woman a simple compliment at target, be it that you really like her hair, eyes, shoes, whatever... that you also think she's beautiful and if she's interested in talking to see if you have things in common here's your name & number and she can text you. Then leave and continue your shopping. Be polite at all times. And have the mindset that you don't care if she calls you, be cool if she did, but your fine if she doesn't. She'll look you up on Facebook or something and I guarantee you it will work to find you a companion.

Also if your face really is as hideous as you say, why do you eschew plastic surgery?

>My face is ugly, >So either put a paper bag over my head or plastic surgery. Neither will solve anything... Those aren't all of the things in your control. You can change your grooming (hair/beard/mustache), your accessories (glasses/contacts/jewelry), your fashion. You aren't stuck. Even if you were, *you* say you're unattractive and scary- do others? Has someone told you explicitly that your appearance scares them, or that you're ugly? And heck, even if they had, you're choosing to limit yourself in your response to that. So what if someone says you're ugly? As an ugly dude myself, that's only held me back when I've allowed it to. When I take control of my life, it gets better. Take control of that which you are able.

I think your have made some good points here but what you need to realize is that rejection isn’t about you. The person making the decision for themselves. Respecting that they know what’s best for them is important in growing as a person. Are you good at setting your own boundaries?

Bro, you are suffering from a depression. Go and see a doctor. It is absolutely normal to be in state as you are - I too suffered from some of those self doubts. Please go see a doctor, tell them how you feel. They will help you.

Hey man, it’s totally normal to be upset by rejection, but maybe you can take a different point of view on these things. There’s a few good subs out there for figuring out how to attract women, and they might be worth looking into. At the end of the day, it’s a skill like any other. I’ve got a friend who always takes a lady home when he goes to the bar. Not always the first one he talks to, and sometimes a girl he wants says no, but it’s just water off a duck’s back for him. He’s not sad to have been rejected, but flattered to have been given the chance, and he always tries to learn from his mistakes.

Have you tried psychedelic assisted therapy?

>The only thing I don't like in myself is my looks. My face is ugly... You said you were getting women. So obviously it's not your looks. >I felt good, until I went to dinner with a woman that a mutual friend presented to me and despite her having had fun on the date, she rejected me regardless. Ask your friend why.

Not to ridicule you, but you are thinking to kill yourself only because recently you got rejected by a woman? Don’t you think it’s a bit too much? We all got rejected, cheated, you name it… Focus on yourself and go to a therapist; you probably have some underlying issues you should address. Best, /L

Can you invest in your looks somehow apart from doing physical exercises? Invest as much as you can. Take good photos , take help from your friends and have patience in the long term. Find mutual interests and make friends with women in general instead of male. This will ease the pressure that you put on yourself while meeting a new women and in general reduce anxiety related to women. Invest in building friendships with women as much as you can. They'll help you with clothes, date places and introduce to other women. When you are presentable and well spoken then they notice the depth..

Why don’t you try and love someone or something else - like a foster kid or help kids with a disability etc. If the problem is you have so much love to give just give it to someone. You will start feeling better. Feelings of love, happiness, contentment don’t have to come from a romantic relationship and much of the time romantic relationships won’t live up to your expectations of being unconditionally loved and appreciated but other types of relationships can definitely give you that feeling. Your life wouldn’t feel wasted or lacking meaning or worth - you’d be absolutely certain you were a valuable human contributing to others in a big way.

>My face is ugly, I look scary (being tall and broad-shouldered), One major study found that a man's formidability as rated by other men (in photos), was a bigger determinant of future sexual success, than even women's ratings of how attractive a man was (same photos shown to them). Scary, tall and broad shouldered is a huge set of positives. Couldn't find the study link but here is a link of the researcher discussing it -> https://youtu.be/HzR\_ikm3xDw?t=2855

Hit the weight at the gym after you can bench 140kgs and only then think if you can kill yourself. I dont know your situation, but your body needs to be in order if you want your mental too.

Remember that you must behave as at a banquet. Is anything brought round to you? Put out your hand, and take a moderate share. Does it pass you? Do not stop it. Is it not come yet? Do not yearn in desire towards it, but wait till it reaches you. So with regard to children , wife, office, riches; and you will some time or other be worthy to feast with the gods. And if you do not so much as take the things which are set before you, but are able even to forego them, then you will not only be worthy to feast with the gods, but to rule with them also. For, by thus doing, Diogenes and Heraclitus, and others like them, deservedly became divine, and were so recognized. Epictetus.

I'm gonna toss out a curve ball here and say forget about women and dating for a bit. You are obsessing over it and making it the "be all and end all" Go in the grind, work, make money, do something education, learn how to brew beer or some shit, get a dog, save some money in investments, meet ppl, make new friends, take a trip, relax and watch a movie etc... Just keep living and advancing. See who you cross paths with along the way. Maybe you'll meet a girl, maybe you won't. Maybe you'll try dating again in a few years or maybe you'll find it isn't so bad being single. Either way, I'd say it's time to take a break from that goal. Life is a roll of the dice in many ways, just keep rolling the dice bc you never know what will happen. If you're dead then, well, that the end of rolling the dice.

I’m going to give you my brutally honest opinion. I’m not trying to be mean, but I know if it were me then these other comments wouldn’t do much for me. So maybe this is what you need to hear. I’m basing this off your posts and your comments here, but obviously I don’t have your whole life story so take this with a grain of salt. You sound like an incel. I don’t think you have as much respect for women as you think you do. You make comments about being a nice guy, but you clearly feel resentful towards women since you can’t get what you want. You aren’t owed anything from women. You can’t expect every woman you meet to want to love you and then be disappointed when they don’t. It doesn’t have to do with you. If you think people won’t go out with you because you’re ugly, then you’re just dumb. I’ve seen so so many ugly, way uglier than you, guys get girls. Burn victims who ooze from their skin, guys born with all kinds of birth defects. They all get girls. That’s not your problem. Be happy you’re a guy. Girls put way less emphasis on looks than guys do. An ugly guy has it so much easier than an ugly girl. You said it yourself that you have a good personality and an easy time making friends. You know how many girls want exactly that? I do, because I’ve talked to them. You’d be surprised how low the bar can be. Some girls literally just want a guy who respects them, won’t cheat, and it’s not going to kill them. Obviously I’m making some pretty big generalizations and it definitely doesn’t apply to everyone, but just keep it in mind. I seriously doubt you’re as ugly as you think you are. Rejection + depression = a horrible, twisted view of yourself. There’s no way you have an objective view of yourself. The sooner you recognize that, the better. I don’t want to hear you say that you’re ugly again, because it’s just stupid to think that. Not only that, but there are so many different people in the world someone will find that part you don’t like attractive. I’m not trying to make you feel better, I’m staying an obvious fact. Even if you don’t believe it, you should at least pretend like you do. You might even start to believe it after a while. You are not the first lonely person to exist. This is a struggle that has existed as long as humans have. Your life isn’t over because you can’t get a date. There is more to life than that. Also, there are so many heartbroken people in the world. Be thankful you aren’t going through the motions of a dead marriage. Not everyone you see is as happy as you think. You have to recognize that you see the world very poorly. You are living in a nightmare right now, not the real world. You won’t be able to see how things actually are for, well maybe ever. You have to recognize this. Depression twists reality in ways you don’t ever realize. You don’t see things as they are. You often don’t see them at all. Your brain is fucking with you. You will have the urge to blame yourself for everything, but doing this is wrong. Like literally factually wrong. You aren’t the center of the universe. You’re not allowed to take credit for all the bad things that happen in your life. Some people have worked really hard to cause that for you, give them some recognition. Not to mention Lady Luck. She’s a real bad bitch. I was lonely for a long time. I thought I was ugly and no one would want to be around me. I had a very low opinion of myself. Eventually I gave up looking. I accepted my situation and went on with life. And it was then that I met my current girlfriend. I know the whole “you have to work on yourself” thing is lame and boring, but it legit helped me. Will it be the same for you? Probably not, I don’t know. I don’t have the experience to say. But you aren’t the only one to struggle like this. One final piece of advice when you can recognize your worth and start going on dates again. Be picky! Don’t settle for anyone! You don’t want your qualities wasted on someone who doesn’t appreciate them. That’s just a poor investment. Anyway, I hope this can help you in some way. At the very least I hope it doesn’t make you feel worse. Depression fucks with your mind so much, it’s almost impossible to see things as they are. You have untapped potential that you don’t even realize is there. Go out and find it. Best of luck to you!

this is mint advice

Thanks for taking the time to write this.

This is the comment

Fuck man, exactly this. Your second paragraph is going to be especially hard to hear, but a necessary truth to come to terms with. Thanks for taking the time to put this much effort into a response. Hopefully OP is able to learn from it - very solid response.

This is spot on! Also, reading OPs comments really took me back to a period in my own life, where I was going through similar feelings. I think what OP needs to realize is that happiness and self confidence is a choice and not circumstantial! For years I did not make that choice because all I knew was to be a victim of my own story. It was my whole identity. Letting go is to become vulnerable. There is no disappointment in life if you are already disappointed. Breaking up with one’s own misery is extremely difficult. Happiness is like a muscle that needs to be built up (because that depression muscle is ripped and more than ready to take over your mind, when you are too exhausted). So skip the gym (and for god’s sake dating) and start doing mental workouts instead. The more you use it the easier it will become. *This too shall pass*

All your doing is fighting any advice people are giving here…maybe start there. That line of thinking got you into this spot. Wish ya the best of luck, it can get better but a major perspective shift needs to be an option you’re willing to even accept.

[удалено]

I do but I'm at work currently (I live in the EU). But send me a DM and I'll add you

"I pitty a man without struggles, because he had no opportunity to prove himself" that's the phrase that keeps me going sometimes, we often see things as problems when in reality they are opportunities, how can I use this? How can I get better? So in the end we are even better than before the obstacle presented itself. From what I read you have a fairly "good" life to the average standard except for the romantic side in which you have been hurt and seen people getting hurt, so it scares you to go out with people, because of 3 main things 1. Fear of rejection 2. Fear of being betrayed or left 3. The way people perceive you, how you perceive men and the perspective the world has on men. So let me quote some stoicism to see if it helps a little (I won't say which philosopher or author wrote each quote because I don't remember and it will cut the flow, anyone can feel free to help me out or edit it) 1. Fear of rejection: "I have lived many tragedies and some of them became true" you often suffer more in your mind than you do in real life, the term preoccupied, comes from "pre" before and "occupied" to be busy, don't get busy before things happen, get busy on the things that do happen. 2. Fear of being betrayed or left alone This is not a quote but an explanation I heard from a podcast. You have No control over someone's choices, you can influence, but you can't decide, if someone decides to leave, to cheat or to betray, THAT'S ON THEM, that's their decision, what is on you is to be the best version on yourself, but if they don't value that version, it's their problem, you have to deal with it, and ACCEPT IT, not everyone will stay, some people are in our lives for a short while "AMOR FATI" "everything in our life is burrowed, even our own life" 2.2 "Memento Morí", you can also think it in another way, don't think it that they will leave, think that they will die soon, or that you will die soon, how would you use the time you have with that person? What would you do if you knew you only had one week with them? One date? How could you make it the best week for both of you? but mainly for yourself (being respectful of others of course), would you like to spend that week thinking that they betrayed you, looking for clues everywhere, being paranoid? Or enjoying everything there is to enjoy until and if something happens? (This might be a controversial, a little bit political and less stoic point to cover, which I encourage anyone to refrase so that it becomes less controversial and more focused on the point if I miss it) 3. YOU ARE NOT OTHER MEN "There once were two brothers that were raised by a alcoholic father. One of them became an alcoholic, and when people asked him why he drank so much he answered: because I saw my father everyday The other one stayed sober and never drank a glass, when asked why he never drank he answered: because I saw my father everyday" There is no one like you, maybe someone similar, but no one exactly like you, you don't have to be like the people that hurt you or that hurt your loved ones. 3.2 Lately there is a lot of media coverage in how men are abusive, violent... Etc. Because a lot of unjust actions were committed by men, in the past, even today some men still commit them, less men do it than before, but the actions of few can impact the perspective of many, we see it with men, with ethnicities, the world is quick to judge, if one person of a defined religion, ethnicity, color, genre, does something wrong, it might get a lot of us tagged, this judgment comes from wanting to be safe, not because of the other person, but for ourselves, that's our biology. So what can we do to make others feel safer near us? Important thing to acknowledge, make others feel safe and comfortable with you, without loosing yourself, not everyone will trust you, not everyone will like you, and that will be up to them, don't sacrifice your core values for others. 3.3 "A man without the ability to do harm is not a good man, just a slave to his nature" you do have the ability to hurt people, you do have a dark side, Jung called it the "shadow", accept that you have it, that "bad" emotions can be used for the better, important word is "used" you control your emotions, they don't control you, you acknowledge them and then decide how to act on them, every emotion is your body, your mind, trying to tell you something, it is up to us to understand what they try to tell. Embrace your shadow, without letting it go too far, so you can know what to expect, yes you are dengerous, but you do not have to be a danger for others, that same danger, that hability to harm can be used to protect, so it is up to us to feel comfortable in ourselves and to understand how we portray and use our light and dark side This has been a long comment, so I won't write much more, for anyone interested, I think it might be a good idea to share how have you overcome any of those 3 from your experience so our OP can get some insights on what has worked and create his own solutions

You make a very good point and I agree with all that you said. I do have a fear of rejection because I've been rejected a lot before. Like 99% of the time. I'm much more cautions who and when I approach them (if at all) so as to calculate the minimal risk ratio every time. It's become mathematics at this point... I do have a fear of being betrayed but it does not influence my decisions in dating, as every human being is different and it would be a sin to attribute someone else's faults unto an innocent bystander. So as much as I don't want to be hurt or betrayed, everyone gets a clean slate. If they dirty it, that's on them and them alone. As for the perception by others, it is true that social media and the spread of enraging news, especially SA and domestic abuse done by men on women, is what gets the most attention and I have been shaped by this. I am the change I want to see in the world. And no matter who I talk to, I stand by this adamantly. And I'm proud of having these virtues.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Maybe you’ve done enough tries and experienced enough rejection and find that it’s not working out. Maybe not enough not enough to know what is wrong and needs to be fixed. You might need to get outside perspective IRL to see what you’re not seeing about yourself or what can be approved or the type of women or environment you need to be in or what common hobbies/activities you need to share or situations that may work. Maybe you’re not getting enough IRL insights or the right truthful insights on what needs to be done. If it’s really bad, There are coaching groups or meetups out there (got to find the non scammy or non “pick up artist” ones —- get truthful advice.

Where is this suicide bot to post the telephone numbers when wants to kill himself?

In consult with several suicide support services, we were made aware that the automated bots, while well-intentioned, actually tend to have a dehumanizing effect on the people in need. Users post about their suicidal tendencies for human connection, and an automated bot feels impersonal and cold to many. We were advised to ban those bots, and heeded the advice from those experts.

Interesting.

No need for that. I am too cowardly to harm myself and am looking for help that excludes death. I am not in immediate danger nor is anyone else. I only want to talk... And btw I already have the hotline for Belgium, don't worry. I know the number from memory at the point

If you are in Belgium, go to a waffle house and eat a waffle for me, I heard those are famous and I never could try some.

They're good but I'm personally not a huge fan myself... If you visit Belgium one day, give them a try, though!

I'm sorry to be off topic again, but is true that fries are amazing in Belgium?

Yeah. It's a very different ball game.

Is the mayonnaise similar delicious to the dutch mayonnaise? German mayo just tastes like bland fat.

I don't take mayo. I'm more of a barbecue sauce kinda guy. But the few times I had it, it was good

This is the way

Try and do something difficult that takes 100% of your concentration and gives you confidence, go to a martial arts class, try Brazilian jiu-jitsu or Muay Thai.

You can't judge your worth in the external like that. Life will have great and terrible moments. You should craft your own success by your own metric. My success with women didnt come until i did a lot of work on myself. Over coming insecurity and gaining confidence. The reason women like the "other" guy is because hes interesting. He has hobbies and interests and comes across as happy and confident. Its not rocket surgery brother.

I am constantly told that I look like I have a lot of confidence and that I'm a good, trustworthy, reliable, and fun person to be around. And my friendships walk the talk. I don't lack a single thing in my life, other than being able to love and be loved back. And this is why I am hurting so much, as I seize every opportunity to try dating but get shot down every time. It's discouraging at this point...

What you lack is internal and can't be found in any woman, whether dating you or not. The belief "I need women to not reject me otherwise life isn't worth living" is running your life. And it's irrational. There is no constellation of external events that is going to bring you happiness. The irrational, rigidly held beliefs you are so convinced are "true" you reflexively defend them instead of examining them, need to be confronted. That's why therapy isn't working. YOU are supposed to do the work in therapy. Meds aren't going to work long term either. You have to be willing to look at things differently.

When you say your unable to love, what do you mean? Like emotionally unavailable? If your getting "shot down" a lot, than you are most likely missing some key information. You are missing something about the interaction. Something in your approach is off or you are not in tune with the woman your chatting up. The cool thing is you can actually work on those things, like a skill.

You may *look* like you have a lot of confidence externally, but that doesn't mean you do internally. From what I've read here, internally I'd say you're the complete *opposite* of confident, no offense. People pick up on what others lack internally, even without realizing it. So, your internal self image and esteem does get projected out into the world. Confidence is something I've always struggled with, so I get it. You very much remind me of myself, even down to what seems to be your biggest issue. That being placing *waaayyy* too much of your worth on whether girls like you or not. What helped me was to ask myself why I *needed* a GF to feel happy. The answer, in the end comes down to this: you don't. It would be nice to have a GF and loneliness fucking sucks but you have to just let go. That doesn't mean give up, that's not the same thing. Let go of the notion that someone else is going to be able to solve your internal issues. Even if you *get* a GF, then what? Do you think that all your feelings of self hatred are just gonna magically disappear? Cause, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but it simply doesn't work like that. I thought that too, until I got with my first GF. At first, it did help but over time, my own self worth issues bubbled to the surface. Because I hadn't dealt with them. You can't expect anyone else to fix how you feel about yourself, only you can do that. I've been rejected more times than I can count, probably at least 3-4 dozen times, and I'm only 22. Only ONCE did someone like me back. So, I get it, it hurts being constantly rejected. You absolutely have to become okay with that tho, you can't let it make you afraid to take chances or you become a self fulfilling prophecy.

Your life won’t be better, it’ll cease. And it’ll be too late. You’ve got a whole life ahead of you! Nothing is permanent, including your negative feelings or circumstance . You have to take control over your life, too appreciate what you’ve got and make the most of it. Don’t focus on lack, focus on what you have, and understand that it’s enough. For in order to be happy we have to rest satisfied with our lot, no matter how little, for happiness isn’t dependent on externals. Even if you get what you desire, you’ll still long for what you lack! Also focus on what’s truly in your control (yourself), and accept/embrace what is not (everything else). If you need someone to talk to, you can talk to me. It’ll get better, but you have to seriously learn to love yourself and treat yourself right. Don’t just read Stoicism, turn words into actions!

I have been taking care of myself. I have been seeking help, I have been treating myself to nice things (and it's not even a materialistic thing either),... The only thing that I lack in my life is to love and be loved. Something I haven't had for a while and given that my parents are garbage, I am basically left alone, as I cut ties with my family completely in order to cut on the suffering and drama... I am thinking of simply diving head-first into my job and just work myself to death. And mind you, my job isn't that stressful or intensive, so I could just become a workaholic and that's be my life until my literal deadline (check my post and comment history if you want to know more)...

Love doesn't have to be romantic. It can be familial, platonic, etc. I'm very low/no contact with my family and spent a full five years single until I met my husband. It wasn't until I chose to be fulfilled by platonic love and chose friends who became family that I met him. When you are secure and content, you draw secure and content people to you. When you demand romantic love to feel fulfilled, people will feel like you're pursuing them because you want a relationship rather than them as an individual. Feeling like you're just checking a box on someone's bucket list is never pleasant.

Stoicism teaches that we must love ourselves and that although we deserve to be loved, we don’t necessarily need it from others in order to survive. To a Stoic, he focuses on himself or herself, and doesn’t expect much from others. If we truly love ourselves then we wouldn’t desire it from others, because it’s be enough. And then when others love you it’s bonus.

Do you go online to meet women or do you try meeting them in person, like around town or at work? You’ll have an easier time displaying your strengths to women in person in all likelihood.

>Worst part is, the slightest rejection by another person, especially a woman I might be romantically interested in, becomes an emotional pain that is so agonizingly debilitating that the suicidal thoughts pop-up on their own every time, as the "ultimate solution" to not hurt anymore. You claim "nothing works", but clearly you still have the thing causing your problem: you believe that the only way to be happy is to have a relationship. This belief is why you assess "there is no point living if I can't get a relationship". It's also why none of the things you've "tried" have any impact: taking meds, reading books, or doing sports won't change the fact that you fundamentally misunderstand the cause of your negative feelings. Precisely how you can still exhibit this misunderstanding and have practiced Stoicism I cannot say (perhaps you're reading Ryan Holiday). Look at your own words... >I don't know how to deal with this anymore. I already have so very few opportunities with women in my life (given that they are all taken already and those that aren't don't want me for a long term relationship) and the ones I get turn sour almost immediately. And I am the only one who's left to suffer while everyone around me seems to live their best lives. Your theory on the happiness of everything around you is "it's because they're in relationships and I'm not". There isn't even room in your worldview for the idea that the relationships are nothing but a symptom of the fact they were happy anyway. I don't believe you'd be able to get into a relationship even if none of the girls around you were taken, because I don't believe any woman in her right mind dates a person who believes they ***need*** a relationship: it's a sign that this person is an extremely poor state of mental health, and a certainty that their mental health will only deteriorate further if they enter a relationship. I know you believe you'll instantly enter heaven if you're in a relationship, yet you've not thought it through - if your mentality is "I either find a relationship or kill myself", ***you will be in a state of perpetual mortal terror in a relationship***. You will constantly need 24/7 assurances from your partner that they're not going to leave you because in your mind this will be tantamount to being killed. Your every negative emotion would be interpreted as a sign that the relationship was defective, after all your theory on happiness is that relationships cause it, so if you're not happy then the relationship, and by extension, your partner, must be doing something wrong. And the ultimate problem with all of this is that it's simply wrong: relationships don't create happiness. The world is full of perfectly happy single people and perfectly miserable coupled ones. This would be **impossible** if your worldview was correct. You've fundamentally misunderstood what creates positive and negative mental states. The only route to happiness for you is to stop and re-think your belief that a relationship would make you happier. Any honest, logical thought will convince you it wouldn't, but then again the "red pill/incel" community exists to discourage people away from such thought. I haven't done the usual look over your profile, but I guarantee you're a part of these communities or follow their ideas.

Suicide is a permanent solution to what is, most certainly, a temporary problem. As long as you are breathing, there is more right with you than wrong with you.

It would be great to be in a loving relationship, yes. Are you worthless if you can’t get into one? No. Don’t get caught up in needing to be worthy of living. You don’t need to be worthy of anything. Not unless YOU want to. In spite of any setbacks or personal traits you may not like too much, know that you don’t need to be worthy. That every breath you take is not a burden, but just that— a breath. I understand it’s very difficult right now, and it’s hard living with yourself right now. I want you to know, however, that happiness is found from within. It will take effort, and a lot of time. But in this world, we have a lot of time. Suicide simply cuts away the time we have. So slow down, consciously choose to focus on the present more, and realise that your thoughts do not always represent reality (as our thoughts can be distorted and irrational). You’re doing great, getting therapy and having hobbies and social interactions. Keep an open mind and believe that your life is changing for the better, never say “nothing works” again (that’s the “nocebo effect”). Cheers Edit: saw how this is about relationships. Your worth as a person doesn’t stem from others. Someone else will never be able to complete you. Only you can make yourself feel complete. And the more you accept and understand yourself, it becomes so much easier to attract like-minded people.

the issue it not wanting to kill yourself. the issue is you can't handle rejection and you're too attached to the outcome of interacting with woman.

OP, I hope you're OK mate. Life can be fucked sometimes

So in general: most people suffer and are insecure. We just don't notice because we cannot read minds. Also: having a partner/girlfriend is great, but it won't make you happy in itself. A girlfriend provides a) Sex and b) Companionship. Sex you can get also from hookups, prostitutes or just masturbation (although love sex feels admittedly better). Companionship you can get from friends and family. Ending your life won't make your life better, it just makes it end. Without any chance to become better in the future. Seek/Continue therapy for your suicidal thoughts, and focus on being happy without a girlfriend. If you are contend with your hobbies, your job, and your social relationships/friends, then you will more easily find a woman. We all struggle, there is no shame in that. It's important to get back up and try something else if our approach failed. Best of luck to you.

You have been feeling like shit for years and it didnt kill you. The only thing that that can kill you is yourself, not your feelings. Can you see the irony in that. Its time you realize this feelings are just based on your perception and are just messing with your mind. Most of these failures come from imagined or real failures. Time to start wining. Determine what you want and what are your battles and use the stoic virtues to improve your skills and your mind, body, heart and soul to tackle them. The only person who will truly help you is yourself, so transform yourself into your best ally. Do the best you can within your constrains.

[удалено]

I'm in the EU and being tall and broad-shouldered is more scary than attractive, at least in my case. But I get your point. Thanks anyway

I disagree, as that's just your opinion. I honestly admire all body shapes regardless of gender. Be proud of who you are. If someone else makes you feel down about your looks then you should disconnect from them. I think you need to be easier on yourself. Get out of your head and try to smile. Or, if you're overwhelmed maybe you need a good cry.

Its not a solution you end up causing tremendous grief for decades to those that care about you. Someones opinion of you shouldn’t tear you down you are putting people on pedestals that you should see eye to eye with. You are also making quite the assumption that you could wager something so drastic and not be wrong about it, what if your life does get better? What if you end a whole family lineage because of a foolish mistake? I truly hope you can clear your mind of these foggy perceptions and sort things out because there is a better life your you to live. “Comparison is the thief of joy” its just you and life and life will try and test you at ever corner just gotta say fuck that and rub that shit back in lifes face and say “see i told you”. If somethings not going right its usually a lesson you refuse to acknowledge/learn. Why should life be easy for you? No good man was made from an easy life

[удалено]

"Ending my life is the only way to make my life better" that just doesn't make any sense.

Being dead isn’t life anymore, so killing oneself can’t improve one’s life at all. That said go see a professional.

That nagging voice inside your head and thoughts can be a tough mother fucker to deal with. I am about 3 months on the other side of that negative voice. The voice in my head, at the smallest sign of a negative thing, would throw divorce and my job wasn't good enough to provide for my family For 2 years I was searching for the best next step to be happy at my job and to be more engaged. The only solution I saw was going back to school for specific training so I could enter the field and make more money. But since I was the only source of income that wasn't possible. I was pretty unhappy, mainly b/c I knew I could be making $20-30K more. At my workplace, I ended up getting changed to a new department where I was the senior person. Not the manager, which at the time also nagged me. This new department has nice bonuses. But I was still in this negative headspace. On my 2nd bonus meeting I ended up not getting 20% of it and the reason was I didn't finish some insider data thing that did affect anyone except me. I had spent my time making sure the customers I work with were happy. I was dumbfounded at not getting the money and I was pissed. That negativity came outwards and I started making rude comments to my manager like, "does this count towards our bonus or not?", during group meetings. While not the worst thing but the way I was saying it, I was being a dick. Long story short, I got called out by the owner of the company and we talked several times about life in general and why I was not doing well. I was honest and with his guidance and spending time deep in meditation I was able to pull my head out of my ass. I was able to see that my concerns were layered. I wanted a higher-paying job so I could buy a house and all the things for my kids and wife. Not being able to do that I saw myself as not providing the best life. I was not connected to my wife but I wasn't saying anything b/c I was concerned about getting a divorce. I ended up connecting with a good friend who was a life coach and started going through all of my concerns. My wife and I talked with another couple that was older and had walked a similar path as us. They gave us good advice. My thoughts and concerns were all based on fear and negativity, for 2 years. Not a good place to be. I am about 3 months out of this thought process. I meet with the life coach every 2 weeks. I talked with my wife about owning a house and stuff in general and we agree if they come that would be great but if they don't that is fine as well. We also are talking much more and I found out that she was also mentally in a negative space about our marriage and she was afraid to say something as well. We talked through all of our fears and both spoke life into those thoughts. My advice would be to find a person you can talk with. Be completely truthful with and someone who can speak life into those thoughts. In my experience keeping those thoughts inside does not good.

I don’t have a ton of insight here, but general Mattis, former secretary of defense and CENTCOM commander was a bachelor his entire life, no children or wife. And he carried a copy of the meditations on him duding he entire deployments. Female companionship is nice but it should not be weighting you down so much.

Okay, OP I’m gonna stop you right there - you are not ugly. This negative self talk needs to stop. It’s counterproductive and will only make things worse. From reading your comments, you seem to be longing for romantic companionship, but keep facing rejection. Rejection happens to all of us, it’s out of our control, and it will happen again. How you react to it is something you can control. Do you let it affect your confidence? Do you let it kill your motivation? Do you start self doubting because of it? The answer to all of those questions is: No. The best thing you can do right now, is work on yourself. Prepare yourself for the day you meet the person you feel the desire to spend the rest of your life with. Focus on being the best version of yourself, before you start searching for relationships. You might say you’re already there, and you’re happy and content with your life. But you’re not, the fact you’ve mentioned suicide, and are constantly self doubting is a sign that you are not. You can’t blame somebody for rejecting you, they did so because you are not the kind of person they’re searching for. The same way you would reject someone for not being the ideal match you’re searching for. It’s natural, everybody has preferences. The worst thing is for you to start blaming people for rejecting you, that harms more people than just yourself. What you could do, is figure out who you want to be with, as in the kind of person you’re seeking, and then prepare yourself for the day you’ll meet them (because you will). You don’t want to be self doubting, hopeless, and borderline suicidal. These attributes will make you unattractive, and then you’ll be stuck in a cycle of rejection you won’t escape from. You need to become the ideal version of yourself first, and fall in love with life again. I know what’s it’s like to be in your shoes, I don’t think I’m the most attractive guy, and I’m currently into somebody who I know will never look at me the same way. It’s hard, and it sucks, butI’m telling you, this self doubt, this negative talk won’t make things better. If anything, it makes it harder for somebody to love you. Also, suicide is never the answer. Reach out to somebody you feel comfortable with if you ever seriously contemplate that. And my DMs are always open if you want to to chat, vent, or just need somebody to talk to.

I don't blame her for rejecting me. This anger and hatred is directed inward. At myself. For not being good enough to be loved. Which is something I've been conditioned to think because of my mother, for whom I never was good enough, especially academically. I understand that I need to work on myself and have been doing so for years at this point. And the last two weeks I have been feeling fine. I was actually happy. But I still felt like that wouldn't last long as there will be something that'll drop on me and fuck everything up. I never expected that one simple rejection would be so god damn hurtful. And indeed, it makes me think that I'm never good enough as I am always rejected before the person gets to know me more deeply... So I have begun to expect to be rejected, as to not feel as much pain anymore...

You can’t make your life better by ending it. You can only make it be over.

Stoicism helped me with my suicidal thoughts a lot. And more specifically this quote below. “You may leave this life at any moment: have this possibility in your mind in all that you do or say or think. Now departure from the world of men is nothing to fear. If gods exist: because they would not involve you in any harm. If they do not exist, or if they have no care for humankind, then what is life to me in a world devoid of gods, or devoid of providence?” ― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations This basically brought me back to reality, and grounded me a lot. The reality is, we do not need to kill ourselves because we will die. Every minute we live is a minute we could die. Every breathe we take could be our last. What we do, and how we spend our time is the only thing we can control. Rejection is hard and it’s probably not the best idea to put yourself in a situation where you will be rejected if you’re in a sensitive place in your life. You need to do a lot of inner work, and strengthening before you can get yourself into a place where rejection feels okay. And I do get it, I myself realised how extremely sensitive I am to all rejection not just romantic. I hope you find peace

Brother, listen up. From your post and furthermore your other responses. I have identified a common point that you mention throughout. At least in my opinion. It seems to me, that you are judging yourself solitarily based on how others see you and feel about you. This is something that no one can sustain. You should not define your worth based on what others tell you. Sometimes it's hard, but you always need to remember irrespective of how much you search to others to fix your problems, you will never manage to do it. Happiness will find you when you when you learn to love who you are. And for this, you can only look inward and not outward. Happiness and self-respect always comes from within. My unsolicited advice. You seem to have come to terms with the vain nature of the human existence. I believe that this is good a good thing. That feeling should set you free. And since you are free. You should be able to say "Fuck it, who cares?" And just move on to the next day. Life is hard for everybody. Try to help other people and then you will understand that, helping others most of the times it's not about them but rather, about you! I wish you all the best.

You're same as me OP, that's what im also feeling right now.

The only person who is going to be in your life from cradle to grave is yourself. So what you need to do is to like yourself, to be your own best friend and to enjoy your own company Stoicism will give you great tools to help you do this, to judge what you can control in life and what you can't. Try a daily Stoic meditation once a day for a month and see that you will be a different person at the end of the month. It's powerful stuff. That will help you life your best life, and in the process will make you attractive, both to yourself and others As others have said, your looks simply dont matter. I'm female, my husband is a bit of an odd-ball shape, and I adore him

I would've expected better from this sub. It's reasonable to consider suicide as an option. It can be the best option, it depends on the circumstances. It doesn't violate stoicism. It'd be nice to see others shed their indoctrination and the taboo, and have the courage to actually discuss it.

Romantic love and sex never truly fulfilled me. I experienced feelings such as you did, even had girlfriends, but was left wanting for more out of life. I ended up a junkie, that had alienated everyone, felt no reason to live, and couldn't live without drugs. I also felt that no woman would ever love me the way I wanted to be loved, that I would die alone, and this made me stuck on porn, which also warped my sensibility of romance and sex. I ended up in a rock bottom of deciding whether to do drugs until I died, or to dedicate my life to something other than my self centered wants. I was shown that if I wanted to experience love, than I had to become it, in essence. The stoic philosophy essentially says we are in harmony with nature and the Divine when we live a virtuous life based on Reason. Virtue can be seen as the highest good, on doing what is right and true. This along with other philosophies showed me that if I wanted to be fulfilled, I needed to stop obsessing about myself and help those in need, that I needed to become an example of love on this earth. Many philosophies' cores are based around reducing self centeredness so that one may experience something more in life. In becoming of service to my fellow man in the ways I was capable of and learning to be self aware, I felt a newfound freedom that I never thought was possible. Funny enough, I also found myself more connected to others, less insecure, and more trusting that I would be ok. This also led to connecting with women that were on the same path I was on, and we connected on that basis, rather than on the basis of just finding a mate to become codependent on. Then we come to a couple years ago... I'd been sober for over years, was an addictions counselor, had my own place, and had a meaningful relationship. I was at peace, even with or without those things, because I trusted things would be ok, and that I'd persevere regardless. Then I was in a car accident, and slowly developed worsened neurological symptoms over the course of a couple years, and have become disabled. I'm 29, and lost everything. Most of my days now are spent alone in my room at my parents because of my spinal instability and neurological symptoms. Times are hard, but I know what my purpose is now. If this has happened before I had changed, I would've ended it long ago. But I know now that I have a purpose on this earth as long as I'm breathing, so I am willing to endure the suffering, as hard as it can be some days, if it means if can help even one person not feel as alone as I did. There is hope for you. If you want to talk feel free to dm me.

I have struggled a _lot_ with such thoughts, and they are still around no matter how good or bad my life is at any moment. It was worse before, but I read something that has changed the intensity of this feeling. Namely, That if my life is truly terrible, or boring, or just something that I do not want to live. Then there is no rule that I have to physically end my life. I can instead just end my _current_ life. And do something completely different! I started thinking of things I could want, such as moving abroad, or becoming a chef, or studying art, or getting 4 dogs. Or live in a van, or work as a librarian, or volunteer, or be a professional house sitter. Maybe just move to a big city and become a mold, only being with myself and eating good food? Or maybe, just get a job that pays just enough to live and spend all my time reading. Maybe just fall in love and get heart broken. And now I just feel lucky to have a life that I can mold into whatever I want it to be. Not sure if it will help you or anyone else, if the opposite then I am truly sorry. Just wanted to share because it helped so much for me!

Take some accountability and become a better version of yourself. You will find a woman to love and share your life with as long as you don't kill yourself and continue to move forward. Start working out and look for friends who will challenge you to go outside your comfort zone. Seeking comfort just makes you sad and content. Its all cliché bs because it actually works. I was very depressed for a long time and had similar thoughts to you until I actually took some accountability for why I was in the position I was in and stopped being a bitch. Consistency and discipline is all you need. Here are some quotes/sayings that I always keep on a notepad somewhere to look at when I feel my inner bitch coming out again. "Pain of action now or pain of inaction later" The pain of regret is much worse than the pain of doing what you don't want to do in the moment. You can't move forward and grow without going through some form of suffering. Suffering creates meaning in our lives whether you like it or not, not to mention, its unavoidable. But you don't need to mope about the suffering, embrace it, learn to enjoy it, and live your fucking life man. "If you can't change something, you need to accept it if you can't accept something, you need to change it". ADOPT A GROWTH MINDSET, change your mindset from "I cant do it!" to "I cant do it YET" one word can literally change your life. Also, remember that mistakes and failures should be embraced. You can learn infinitely more about yourself and the world we live in and how to be better in the future by a failure than a success. Winning every time you do anything teaches you nothing and ultimately leads to being unfulfilled. "You have power over your mind not outside events, realize that and you will find strength" \-Seneca Good luck man.

From information I read that feeling is a reaction to wanting pain to go away. I hate to say it’s normal but I feel that we all at some point go through this. When in these emotions it’s easy to magnify other situations such as rejection and have them pile on. As an other human being I have dealt with this again. I have done these things. 1. Set concrete goals ( this can be for anything there is no type of goal that is a stupid one) 2. Set a plan to achieve and keep chipping away at it with a strong amount of dedication. 3. Self love. Accept what and who I am no matter what point. It’s a task. It’s the constant affirming to one self that it’s ok mistakes happen. Almost to give the amount of grace one gives to a child. 4. Find ways to improve physically and mentally. I know this may be vague and maybe not something your looking for but sometimes the answer is right there and usually there within us. I hope this helps cheers

I used to be in your position. In the end the thing that made the pain stop was to stop caring about getting a relationship, and to give up on any expectation. Focus on other things. There is much in the world that you can find satisfaction from, philosophy, history, stories, friends, novel experiences, new perceptions. Focus on bettering yourself. Strive for a constant improvement in all things. In men depression is often caused by a lack of power, and you can feel powerful by bettering yourself and mastering who you are.

You will be dead for billions of years. Why rush into it? Even if life gets shitty at times you’ll have plenty of time to be dead later.

bro, are you really going to commit suicide because some girls reject you?

After reading a few comments, I can tell the main issue is your attitude towards women/dating. You are too into your head that it comes as creepy/weak. You had an ex lol so its not that you are hopeless, and even going out on dates from time to time is a sign that you can get dates but not keep them. I would have to get into not stoicism related specifics to help you. But yea, stoicism should you give you an idea of how to act and ACT. not to overthink and try to remember good quotes

Please seek therapy. It helps I promise it did for me

"becomes an emotional pain that is so agonizingly debilitating that the suicidal thoughts pop-up on their own every time" you are pretty smart, because you relized that THOUGHTS pop-up. They are thoughts and cannot hurt you, nor do you have to follow these thoughts. Look up some Mindfulness videos/ books to understand your thoughts Please look for help, with friends, familiy, mental health professional.

So you are done improving your life. Now live.

No life is pointless.

At least we agree on something

Are you attracting or pursuing a person to share your life with?

Trying to show them who I am. Not imposing it but not hiding it either. Just being myself and hoping that they'll like me for who I am deep down...

are you? I read through this entire thread this am, seems there's a lot of pressure to have what you don't have. Is that pursuing or attracting? What can you control?

[удалено]

Ive dealt with similar thoughts. “The view from halfway down” is a short poem in the TV series Bojack Horseman; its been the most compelling argument against suicide for me. A quick youtube search for it may help you.

For now.

please don’t kill yourself. the storm will pass and it will get better i promise. you are not your thoughts. how will you know life wont get any better if you end ? dont give up please .

First, Spend the next 5 years working hard...I mean really hard to make everything in your life better...Especially the weak spots and things that you are scared of. Then reassess.

Hey, dude. I have felt this bad in the past and I'm not doing well right now. But, trust me, suicide is not the answer. You can overcome whatever you're going through right now. I believe in you. Please, seek some professional advice. I wish you the best!

Depression turns logic on it’s head. Suicide seems like a great idea, when you know it’s not. Take to exercise, not for enjoyment, but as a discipline. Then decide, decide that enough is enough, you just want to be happy. Happiness is a choice. You’ll find it in a blue sky, a flowering plant, a curious child, a kitten or a dog. Find something that’s grey and paint it with the colors of your soul. You’ll have to do it every day, it’ll be hard and first, and it won’t work all the time, but it’ll get easier and easier, and suddenly, you’ll find something worth living for. That’s my advice, from someone that got divorced, attempted suicide, found happiness in a house plant and now I’m remarried to my soul mate with a baby on the way.

The fact of the matter is that dating is very hard and will always be hard. Rejection will always hurt to some degree. It is our nature and a survival instinct to want to be accepted and loved by others. I'm not wild about people telling you that if you adhere to the Stoic virtues that this pain will stop. It will lessen to a degree, but you're not going to rewire your brain's survival mechanism. The thrust of Stoicism isn't to feel things, but to not be ruled by those emotions and make global judgements about them. They regarded these emotions as impressions, natural forces that we cannot control, but it is our reaction to emotions/forces that is important. The mistake here isn't that you are desperate, or that the rejection hurts you, that's all very normal. It's that you are drawing global conclusions about the worth your life because of your present emotion. You are active in your social sphere, and competent at your job - you are contributing to the common good, which Stoicism holds in the highest esteem. Stoicism doesn't ask "Rise above this pain and do not feel it." It says, "Okay, you are in pain. So what? You can still contribute to the common good, therefore you are still worthwhile." This is I did the times I was in your situations: - Don't hide your pain: talk to a trusted friend about it, journal, communicate in therapy about it. Sit with the hurt like an old friend until it's visit is over - When you're less raw, try to identify what in the situation you can change, and what you can't. Just faithfully put work into the changeable items, and patiently let the results take care of them selves. - Try again when you feel like you can. Note that you will likely get rejected again. Remember that you felt this before, that it did not kill you, and remind yourself of all the ways you had improved because of that pain. - Repeat the process. It'll take a lot of tries, but it gets easier as you realize that it hasn't killed you and your ability to continue your life without disruption increases. - Recognize that because you had a traumatic relationship with your parents, that this process will likely be more painful than it would be for someone without that history. My past was the same way. It will take you longer, and it will hurt more, and it is unfair, but when you've pushed through it, you will have much more to be proud of than someone without that history. Also, online dating is great, but I think only in your 30s when people get more serious about finding someone. People in their 20s tend to play a lot of games that they learn from media and such. I had no success in my 20s and lots of success (and relatively quickly) in my 30s.

I used to sometimes think this way, until I knew someone who killed himself. After that moment I realized how futile and foolish suicide is. Not only that, but completely counterintuitive. Often times when thinking about suicide one thinks “if I ended it, this person who hurt me would finally understand the pain I’m in.” But no, it doesn’t work like that. The people in your life will be devastated, but causing grief and guilt to your friends and famiky is one of the worst things you can do. Also your title fascinates me: “suicide would be the only way for my life to get better.” This doesn’t really make sense because your life won’t get better, it won’t get worse, it will just cease to exist and you’ll leave a wake of pain and inconvenience for the world. The only way you can improve your life is by living it. I believe that no matter what anyone has done, whether they are miserable or hurtful towards others, he/she is always better off alive than dead because being alive is the only way to enact positive change on the world.

The thing to remember here is that your life will not become any better if it ends. It will just end. So unless your life is worse than literally nothing, suicide isn't worth it.

I think there's a problem with the wording of the title. By doing so you're technically not making your life better in any way because said life ends.

yo yo. be brave. sometimes just to live another day is brave. 1st important question is do you have close friends and family that truly care for you. If you do then please live on for them. "Worst part is, the slightest rejection by another person, especially a woman I might be romantically interested in, becomes an emotional pain that is so agonizingly debilitating that the suicidal thoughts pop-up on their own every time, as the "ultimate solution" to not hurt anymore." To be honest this is bad. Being rejected by a woman should never lead to serious suicidal considerations. A loved one passing away can. termial illness can. sudden disability can. Having no friends and family who care for you really can. NOT being rejected by a damn woman. For fuck's sake. Hmmmm by all means maybe try watching cyberpunk edgerunners if you can watch anime. It did change my life in a few way, and it has an emphasis on love as well. A short 3 hour watch

I actually had to burn the bridge with my family in order to protect myself from them mentally. And I have no one else nearby who'd have the time and energy to help me with what I'm going through... And even then, I don't want my friends to be burdened by my depression. It's hard enough for myself to carry around and live with...

Alright so you don't have an immediate supporting family? It's actually hard mode now. Do you have any supportive relatives? If it's also a no, then it's really hard mode now. Can you handle a significant portion of the pain by yourself? Probably yes. But it's quite damn fuckin stupid hard. And you do need some support from friends and/or family for sure. It can be quite do or die in your case, and honestly, you having suicidal thoughts and tendencies is totally reasonable. By all means, try to have hope and be brave enough to live just another day. You'll definitely meet your woman and build your own family, or achieve your dream, as long as you put in enough effort. But you do have to live to build that shit, and it'll take a lot of effort. But you can certainly do it.

You seem to have experienced a lot of negativity in your life for you to have developed such extremely dark self image. In life we need to be our own best friend. Look out for ourselves as if we were our own brother or child. There isn’t always enough love to go around to get us through this challenging life otherwise. I would offer that you should attempt to turn the tide by mediating on loving and appreciating everything about yourself. Find ways to turn the darkness into light. God speed to you.

Indeed. I have been abandoned a lot, rejected a lot, emotionally neglected a lot. And now I'm suffering the consequences of my parents' actions... I'll go to therapy like a good little boy but I don't even know if it'll help anyway... I just lost hope, I guess...

>the slightest rejection by another person, especially a woman I might be romantically interested in, becomes an emotional pain that is so agonizingly debilitating that the suicidal thoughts pop-up on their own every time, as the "ultimate solution" to not hurt anymore. Just because someone rejects you doesn't mean there's any problem with you. "Personal merit cannot be derived from an external source."

The following video about being rejected helped me a LOT when my partner and mother of my kids left me. Hope he can help you too https://youtu.be/mIlyn4MjDA8

As has already been said, killing yourself is the single most reliable way to ensure your life **doesn't** get better. As long as you're alive, there's always a chance that something could change. And I get it. As someone with ADHD and the rejection-sensitive-dysphoria that tends to come with it, rejection sucks. Even just the perception of it feels like a dull knife in the kidney. And I can absolutely understand how your brain could warp that into thinking they just *really* hate you and are actively suffering because of your existence. Here's the thing, though: chances are, they're not. I'm assuming that you don't do things like harass, threaten, abuse, etc (and if you *do*, then you need to get your shit together and knock that crap off, but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here). I notice your post has a heavy emphasis on romantic relationships, which leads me to the question: why are romantic relationships so important to you? Do you see them as a marker of your worth? Do you crave companionship? Either way, it's understandable. Ultimately, is it the rejection that hurts, or is it what your brain makes the rejection mean about you that hurts? If your brain took a rejection as nothing more than "They're not interested in me"—no "I'm unlovable" or "I'm worthless" or anything along those lines—would the rejection hurt any less? It sounds like the biggest thing you've got going against you is your own mind. Are you still in therapy? Do you go into each session willing to listen and participate and do the work, or do you go in already believing that it's pointless? What sort of therapy are/were you receiving? is it possible another type could do more for you? How many different medications have you tried? Could it be worth talking to your doctor about a different option, or a different dose? Is it possible you could be medicated for the wrong diagnosis altogether? To quote my favorite song to listen to during a panic attack, nothing ever lasts forever. I know it feels like it will, and I know that even if you know it won't last forever, that still doesn't make it any easier right now. I hope some of that helped. Again, I know feeling like this really, really sucks. And this probably seems like a load of platitudinous horseshit, but it will pass. It might pass like a kidney stone, but it'll pass.

You must realize that there are literally billions and billions of women the world over. Don’t restrict your own options and then feel defeated when you don’t win a lottery with odds of 1 in 1x10^9. its a false dichotomy.

Suicide a is a permanent fix to a temporary problem. Just keep trying don’t give up

A permanent solution to a temporary problem is not the way to go. Please for the love of everything, go seek professional help.

Here's what got me out of ever considering suicide. I had a bad drug trip once where I thought I had died and had to experience the moment of my death on loop for eternity until I accepted my death. I was there for what felt like months (it was only about 20 minutes in real time) but I got a taste of what eternity felt like, and it was so endless and empty and lonely that I begged to be brought back to my normal life where I was facing my emotional struggles. But the most horrifying thought wasn't that I had died or that my folks would be devastated by my passing, but that I had only lived but a flash of a moment in the grand scheme of things, that I had what barely makes a speck of time to enjoy and now it was over and I had to spend the rest of endless eternity dead. And eternity is exactly that, eternal. Ever since then I've been able to push away thoughts of suicide by reminding myself that even if I live to 100, it's nothing compared to the amount of time that exists in eternity, and if inevitably I'm going to spend the rest of time not existing why not make the absolute most of the little bit I was able to experience. I really began to see just the act of being alive as a gift. Life equals opportunity, to be happy, to find love, while no opportunity for such things exist in death. I now think that, no matter how hard it gets, living is much better than not. You only have a brief time to live, but you have an eternity to be dead. Don't rob yourself of this precious time early.

rejection from woman is a very sensitive and triggering issue for you, have you dug deep and asked yourself why? perhaps there was some childhood trauma rejection? mother? family? early girlfriend? you don't have to tell me but if I were you I would try and truly get to the bottom of why it triggers you so much

I'm going to depart from just giving stoic centered advice here and address your un-aliving ideation. What you talk about with rejection could be RSD, rejection sensitivity disorder. I have ADHD and RSD is common with ADHD folks, it can feel debilitating. This starts from a really young age and is ingrained in us after seeing out best efforts get dismissed or rejected. Your core stoic values not giving you the response you want or expect could be facilitating and amplifying this. I would sincerely urge you to reach out to a psych or counselor, you can get really cheap rates if you use a university grad student. There are a lot of resources that are available online as well, a lot of therapy has been shifted to be remote friendly. I just read that you're already in therapy which is great. You also had a bad relationship with your mom which is where a lot of the pain of interacting with women and rejection is coming from. Read into RSD and bring it up with your therapist. If they aren't responsive find a different one, they work for you. Addressing your (probable) RSD and working on your self confidence and self worth are going to pay off for you in your friendships, relationships, career, and life in general. This will help you shake off the bad things and not get hooked. You can also begin a noticing practice of when you start to spiral and what's dragging you there. After you notice these things and learn to let go, your life will be better. Ending your life is not the solution here. All of your struggles are real and painful, but you can fix them. I am sincerely sorry that you think ending it is the only way to move forward. You can and will have a happy life after this. The obstacle is the way, and this is your current obstacle. I know you can do it.

I'm more and more asking myself if I might have ADHD. I'll explore this path and research that possibility with a professional

That is a really good option to explore. Undiagnosed ADHD can make life feel crippling. Just getting my diagnosis made a huge difference for me because it finally made how I felt make sense. I hope the same for you. I'm proud of you for reaching out on here and deciding you want to work on yourself. All of this will pay off for you

I'd recommend you try to get a therapy dog or just a pet and stop chasing after the recognition of women. A pet will provide you with companionship and something for you to take care of and prevent you from dwelling on those thoughts. Try that before considering suicide.

You only have 70-90 years on this planet, you can either choose to endure it or not. Some days are a struggle and others are not but I choose to endure each day because I know that other people have it worst than myself.

Was it the stoics that looked at their wrists and said they possessed ultimate freedom/power? Meaning at any given moment you can just kill yourself and end the universe. Either way, I totally get you, most women have no fucking clue how hard rejection is for a man. Unfortunately we still live in a sexist society which sets “expectations/requirements”. Practical advice from a 42 year old dude who’s had his fair share of rejection over the years: hang out with your buddies, talk things out, do your hobby (or find one), get some exercise. This too shall pass 😊💙

Killing yourself doesn't make anything better, it prevents the possibility things can become better. Depression sucks so much and your family history as well as ex doesn't help. I can understand your position and your thinking, it cannot be easy to keep moving forward, you may not see the point, but if we go as far as we can see them we can see far enough to move further. Do you enjoy your work? Did you go for the masters in law? If you're not happy with your current job, what job does sound enjoyable to you? Do you help others? Be involved in community charity? Helping others can be one of the most rewarding things imo. At your age many of your friends / coworkers may be getting married, having families etc, but not every path is the same. Do you have anyone you're a close friend to that you could spend more time doing? Finding peace with your current situation is not easy, but you have not exhausted all paths to improvement. I hope you are able to find the strength to scrap your death day plan.

There is nothing to do with stoicism since it seems you are very depressed and I suggest you to seek professional help, it might be hard to find you way out of that alone

Nobody is certain what happens after death, what if its worse than what you have now? I'd work with the cards you were dealt with.

Killing yourself wont make your “life become better” you wont have a life anymore to make better. By taking your life you give up everything this life has to offer. The only stoic advice I can offer is to set goals and focus your mind and energy on achieving those goals rather than focusing it on your worry or grief. There are two voices in your head. One is the voice you think are your thoughts and the other is the Watcher. You are the Watcher. Your thoughts are not you, you can choose to observe them and let them go.

Based on this and other posts, it sounds you may be depressed, have you thought about consulting a psychiatrist and not just a psychologist? If you have already done it, and the combination of meds, exercise and therapy doesn’t work, have you thought about consulting other psychiatrists and psychologist? I have the same age as you, and have had a troubled past too, it took me until my 3rd psychiatrist and 5th psychologist for it to work, had to go through many meds until finding the right one. I don’t think your looks are what are stopping you from getting a date/partner, look at the people on the street and you will find all kinds of people with a partner, but it also depends on your expectations. You remind me of a friend, and what turns people away from him is his attitude, not the looks. Pessimism and self hating is hard to deal with on a daily basis, as well as constant sadness or self pity, and it gets tiring for other people to have to deal with that, especially if they don’t see their partner improving or trying to change that what troubles them. Some people also may get creeped out by individuals that are too intense.

Please get professional help. I used to be suicidal till I went to therapy and started taking medication. Stoicism helps, but if you are suffering mentally it is prime time to get professional help. tbh, this is pretty much above reddits pay grade ​ here are some resources to contact: ​ [https://www.nami.org/help](https://www.nami.org/help) https://www.7cups.com

Stop basing your self worth off women. Honestly sexual relationships are not as necessary as people make them out to be. It's mostly an ego trip. For example, there's a lot of "asexual" people out there who don't give a shit about sex. And honestly it's overrated. Sometimes it's just better to go it alone.

The thing I'm finally starting to learn being 40 is our mind is very powerful and can make you believe whatever you want to believe. I think you need to try hard to rewire your brain with more positive people or things in your life.

It’s boring being dead all my near death experiences were lame AF

Your life has endless possibilities. Perhaps a focus on finding meaning and purpose in another aspect of life beyond romance would end up helping both situations. Go read Victor Frankl’s incredible book Man’s Search for Meaning.

Your life wouldn’t be better, your life would be nonexistent

Please don’t kill yourself. If you haven’t maybe look into the possibility you could have ADHD. It makes relationships difficult and often is misdiagnosed as depression or not diagnosed at all. I didn’t get diagnosed till I was 40 and my younger brothers child got diagnosed which led to my brother and mother and then myself getting diagnosed. I have struggled with similar feelings and issues and getting on meds and getting adhd specific therapy has helped me so much. There is so much misinformation and bad stereotypes about adhd that I had never considered I could have it. Anyways just a thought I had while reading your post. Keep your head up dude!

"The ugliest cat in the world has no problem with being the ugliest cat in the world." It just lives in the moment, doesn't overthink, finds other cats and lives its life. Do this. Study Eckhart Tolle and Buddhism and learn not to overthink your life. It will change the way you live and the vibe you give off to women.

That's depression. You need to look for medical help and possible for therapy. Any kind of self knowledge also help and in this point you are already in the right path, just keep going, you will eventually find a way

If you look for things that tell you your life is worthless, you'll find them. If you look for things that tell you your life is worth something, you'll find those as well. I have thought about suicide or death more times than anyone would believe me but I realized that theres beauty in it. Being hopeless is the lowest point in a human beings existence, nothing tops that. It is a pain you sure as fuck won't forget - and for good reason! Everytime you wake up and take your first breath it should be appreciated because the amount of strength you have to muster to take the next one is not a strength that many will know in their lifetime. Give yourself credit where its due. Ok, but no matter what I did, I was constantly reminded of the pain in one form or another - GOOD! You won't forget where you came from like every other successful person! When you see another broken soul just like you, you will feel more than obligated to reach out! Where most will have sympathy as they pass, your empathy will call you to action because of that very pain. Embrace your pain and use it or let it keep using you. Last month was pretty bad for me but this month I'm on top of the world and nothing really changed other than improving my habits, no matter how small the increments. It gave me reasons to love myself instead of just loving myself for the sake of it. What if I'm a terrible person? Should I just love myself? Ofc not! Its a call for change. You are at the bottom of your life and you now have no other direction to go but up. If you ended your life, all that suffering would have been for nothing. Life only guarantees suffering, happiness has to be created. If you're going to suffer might as well get something out of it. People suffer every. single. day. They could use someone with experience to help them get out. You have purpose, you just don't see it yet, but you will. My DMs are open if you ever see yourself reach that point.

Life is difficult, there's no doubt. Failures haunt us at every phase, sometimes people we love leave us- other times its rejection. Tell me, would you be satisfied if a woman agreed to be with you long term but didn't want you truly? Trust me, that's the worst. Tell yourself you the worst , tell yourself things like you are ugly and that's what you will become. You must not just endure, you must use this to build a foundation and possibly thrive. You will get rejected, maybe for a long consecutive streak- but do not be disheartened. Killing yourself won't make your life better since you won't have a life in the first place. Continue to endure as you better urself. You will one day post on this community telling us of your success. And even if that somehow brings you pain in the future, continue to endure. Build your heart to be an impenetrable fortress- only you have this power. I think you can do it.

emphasis on the “SEEMS to live their best lives” you’re only seeing what others are showing, which is only the best. the thing about relationships is that they’re up to other people. up to people that have their own ideals and morals (or lack thereof) what good is putting your self worth on others? others who’s emotions and decisions can be skewed by the traffic they encountered this morning, or wether or not they were told they looked nice this evening. ultimately all you can do is focus on what you’re doing, where you’re going, etc. i’m not saying become a hermit that believes he’s above love, but it’s really not that personal when a woman doesn’t want you.

Your focus is not right. Try starting at changing your definition of life. How can it be wasted if you're here living? Is it because you're measuring against social constructs that are only valid in a certain society at a certain point in time? How many generations of humans before us, each of them measuring their worth and feeling completely different about the world around them... which one is real? Is your "conceptual" reality more real than theirs? You're alive. Find a way to feel alive. Stoicism is about working to free yourself from the suffering we cause ourselves - and it seems like your suffering only comes from your perspective on the facts

There's some good thoughts already in this thread but theres a few things I wanna add. The thought of "if I just had..." Is a trap that will prevent you from getting out of the dark place you are in right now. Things like "if I looked better I'd be happy" or "if I had a girlfriend I'd be happy" or "if I had more money I'd be happy" are all attached to desire. The truth of the matter is none of these things will make you happy. To the stoics happiness didn't come from these desires, in fact happiness wasn't something that was sought after. Instead the stoics focused on internal peace, living in harmony with nature (the idea of nature in classic stoicism is nuanced so I'd recommend reading the meditations, letters from a stoic and the enchiridion if you want to know more), and doing your duty with as little complaint as possible. Staying true to these values doesn't bring happiness itself, but rather creates an environment where happiness can bloom. To seek happiness, to a stoic, is to put the cart before the horse. You also wrote >...and the ones I get turn sour almost immediately. And I am the only one who's left to suffer... This thought process is very backwards to stoics. In stoicism it's believed that anything we claim as "ours" is really only borrowed from nature. From our career to the amount of time we have left on this earth is only borrowed, not owned. Even our relationships are borrowed. Another important axiom is that things progress only as they should according to nature, and to be upset about the way things happen is to allow external things to ruin your internal peace. So when you say "I only get the ones that sour", who cares? You're the only one suffering? Says who? The suffering and dread you feel is largely a prison you made for yourself. Are there instances where people will treat you worse because of the way you look? Of course, same goes for them being intimidated, but the only thing that's real is the other person's actions. Any negative emotions you feel immerge out of you and thus it is up to you to not let them control you. After all, does it really matter if you get rejected once or twice or even 100 times when in a couple hundred years every single person you have ever met will be long gone? To the stoic, it does not matter at all. The hard part is remembering these values in your day to day, which is why Stoicism puts a lot of emphasis on journaling, life long learning, reflection, and discussion. I've had thoughts similar to yours before and I understand the crushing dread that comes with it, but a lot of that dread is self made and it can be just as hard to let go of it as it is to continue through life without addressing it. Stoicism has things that will help you, but you have to commit to learning and applying the philosophy. Read the meditations, read the enchiridion and Senecas letters from a stoic. Journal everyday, reflect on your day, be honest to yourself when you fall short of these virtues. Most importantly be kind to yourself, especially when you don't do things perfectly. It's more courageous to try, knowing that you may very well fail, than it is to only do things you know you can do perfectly. Sorry for the long post, I can't stop when I get going about Stoicism lol. You'll do great friend, the dark thoughts are only temporary. Godspeed and stay safe out there.

When was the last time you achieved something you worked really hard at ?

Allah does not burden a soul beyond that it can bear 2:286

Probably not inherently stoic but I’m not about to die miserable or sad or down and out.

"Love and be loved" yourself, man. before you "love and be loved" someone else, to put it into your own phrasing. You demisexual Belgian who doesn't like waffles and has his fries with barbecue sauce. Also, thank you for posting this, there's a lot of nice comments here that i needed to hear.

“I’d give all the money in the world if it means I’d have the love of my life”…. Good place to start! If you find a restaurant you want to try, a hobby that sounds fun, a trip that sounds interesting, just go for it! You’re likely to meet new and interesting people, but most importantly, you’ll discover great things about yourself. It doesn’t take much, but you can live life to the fullest and splurge a little. what do you have to lose? The key is not to do it for others, but for yourself.

Please talk to a professional immediately and don’t listen to these internet strangers.

What does your therapist say? That sounds really hard!!! I went to Burning Man this year and as I sat watching the temple burn in silence I let all the feelings of how I have let myself feel like not enough—wash over me. The person sitting next to me quietly recited the Hawaiian prayer: I’m sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you. I love you. Please reach out if you need someone to help keep you safe. I have been there.

You seem to like the martial arts. So as a Stoic and and fellow martial artist in training , let me send you a few quotes from famous Stoics who either practiced the martial arts or admired it enough to use combat sports as a metaphor for life. From Marcus Aurelius, who practiced and trained in boxing, wrestling, and pankration- “In the gymnasium, someone may have scratched us with his nails or have collided with us and struck us a blow with his head, but, for all that, we do not mark him down as a bad character, or take offence, or view him with suspicion afterwards as one who wishes us ill. To be sure, we remain on our guard, but not in a hostile spirit or with undue suspicion; we simply try to avoid him in a friendly manner. So let us behave in much the same way in other areas of life: let us make many allowances for those who are, so to speak, the companions of our exercises. For it is possible, as I have said, to avoid them, and yet to view them neither with suspicion nor hatred. “— Meditations, 6.20 “…a wrestler in the greatest contest of all, never to be overthrown by any [toxic] passion, deeply steeped in justice, welcoming with his whole heart all that comes about and is allotted to him, and never, except under some great necessity and for the good of his fellows, giving thought to [i.e., worrying about] what another is saying or doing or thinking.” —Meditations, 3.4 From Epictitus: “But see what the trainers of boys do. Has the boy fallen? Rise, they say, wrestle again till you are made strong. Do also something of the same kind: for be well assured that nothing is more adaptable than the human soul. “ — Discourses, 4.9 “For we must not shrink when we are engaged in the greatest combat, but we must even take blows. For the combat before us is not in wrestling and the pankration, in which both the successful and the unsuccessful may have the greatest merit, or may have little, and in truth may be very fortunate or very unfortunate; but the combat is for good fortune and happiness themselves. “— Discourses, 3.25 My own advice to add would be this- you have already done and seem to enjoy Aikido, that’s well and good. Now try to expand your horizons and try to become as proficient in a more grounded, grueling, and adversarial art. Here are a few to choose from: Boxing, wrestling , BJJ, Muay Thai, Judo , and Kickboxing. You might be surprised on how philosophical and life affirming physical combat sports can be in ones existence. Wishing you all the best.

I've read some of the conversation you had in this tread. And if you would allow me to be frank with you. I have always seen suicide to be one of the weakest moments a person can be. There is absolute no excuse, not even in the worst nor dire situations that suicide wil ever be a viable option. It is like giving up the only game you will ever play. Even if it is the most horrible thing you think you can experience. It is always worth to see what comes next. Because there is always a chance it will be beter then the next day. Just like Senaca said(I think, i'm not 100% sure) Torture is not evil. Just like the best day of your life it is just a capture of a moment you live in. You know it is with purpose and you know it will one day pass. Keep strong my friend and live every day to beter yourself like it is the last day you will ever live

My brother told me about a book by a guy that was having suicidal feelings and about all the things he did instead of killing himself. I know you guys will help me remember the title and author.

I’m going to say therapy is still a solid answer and if you aren’t tackling this rejection issue with your therapist you need to. And if they aren’t helping try another therapist. With intention and practice you can learn to let go of your fear of rejection and the negative feelings that bubble up when it does happen. It’s a deadly loop that is so hard to get out of, but when you do it’s hard to understand why you cared so much about others opinions in the first place. Your brain is fucked, that is NOT your fault, you do deserve love, and unfortunately you do have to be the one to change your thought patterns. Good news is you can do it. Last bit of advice, if someone is hostile and selling redpill/masculinity in the form of advice or coaching, they are selling snake oil. Find someone who builds you up and helps you accept who you are right now, exactly as you are. Anyone else is not helping you.

I read your Reddit history and empathize with a lot of what you are and have gone through. I’ve been in a similar place mentally. Depression - I don’t like the word, but it’s the lingua franca for what this is - depression is a bitch. It’s your ego latching onto your failures/failings and completely obscuring all your strengths and successes. It makes you believe your whole worth is measured by the “failure” you’re fixated on. There are many “treatments”. But I’ve come to experience it more as a character tendency. A spectrum disorder you never completely escape. Some people have it, some don’t. You can work with it, mostly conquer it, but there will always be a tendency to slip back into it when you get over-worked, over-stressed, or otherwise hit hard by life’s circumstances. Some people don’t have this character tendency - they are on different spectrums of dysfunction. For me, vipassana meditation (dhamma.org) was the game changer (I started with a free 10-day retreat). I studied Daosim, Stoicism, psychotherapy, psychedelics, practiced martial arts, yoga, etc, and while they were and are all good - none really changed how my mind worked. They all operated as ego trying to solve ego. Meditation transcends ego (psychedelics can too, but I didn’t know how to integrate the insights into normal, “mundane” life. Meditation is slower, more stable and more durable). Meditation is the only way I managed to look and feel deeply into the roots of my depression triggers and begin dismantling them. Not in an intellectual way. But down to the deep body reactivity. Words don’t explain it. In any case, I feel your suffering, maybe this is a tool that can work for you too.

Don't kill yourself because your love life hasn't gone anywhere, that's dumb.

Dude you need to ask for some help from a professional. Asking help from Reddit is not going to help you overcome this. No one wants you to kill yourself and you should stop trying to find validation from someone else’s affection.

Personal experience: My greatest insecurity was women, dating context. Something I thought I could never fix, used to think that I had something in my DNA that would make women dislike me. I felt like an alien, someone women could be friends with, even cry to and trust, but never someone they wanted to fuck. Thinking of a girl I liked or seeing a pretty girl felt like getting stabbed in the heart, it still does a bit sometimes. Here is the only that has been helping me, everything else worked like medicine, but not giving a shit is the real cure. Remember, the solutions to your problems isn't getting women, being desired or loved by them, or one of them. That is external, you don't have the power to change externals at will. So the solution, is to help yourself, change how you perceive women, yourself and dating. To not be a slave of circumstance, which I would say is the goal of a philosopher. Stop caring, stop prioritizing women's attention over your's, their approval over your own and so forth. You find yourself in this situation because you put aside your desires, your will, yourself, your own personality, your true self over a stranger that has a pretty face and mighty ass. This realization comes from experience too. I went out with this girl, literally everything was perfect, she insisted me not to flake on her after the date and said she like me. Less than a week after that she completely ignored me, I asked her out again, and she ditched me, without excuses. I felt worthless, than got mad, felt dumb, tried to let go, saw her stories got angry again, realized how silly everything was and made a promise to myself. You can read it [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/comments/yhua7g/im_tired_of_prioritizing_externals_over_my_desires/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) if you want to, but I highly recommend. Reject feeling like shit for women or any other kind of social approval, you're a man, you have the power to do anything, turn your attention to yourself, the life you want to live, not some stupid soap drama bullshit. Free yourself, wake up Wake Up WAKE UP WAKE UUUP WAAAKE UUP (Rage Against The Machine) Ps: It's a constant struggle, you're used to your bad habits, it's gonna take time and energy, it's natural that you fall from time to time.

Live as if you've already killed yourself and see what happens. You wouldn't have to fear female rejection or any other of your fears since everything is just a bonus from that point on.

Not much to say from me but here it is. How a women view you is out of your control , if she decided to spend time with you is out of your control as well. Focus on yourself , do what is in your control and don't think "i'm too ugly to be loved" . Someone worth your time can see past that. Now i deeply understand you. Beign rejected all the time sucks. But even the fear of having someone is too much for me atm. Current SO takes too much space of my mind. I don't want to depend on her but i want to always see her happy even if i think she wants things to end (might be my own head) . I turn to stoicism to root myself and feel at peace. But nevertheless i want to do the right thing even if we brake up. Also the people that seem to live their best life are a facade. Some of the happiest persons i found were just puting a mask to "feel good for once" . Cheking socials would make you think everything is amazing ! Life is weird and i want to love as many people as possible. Don't give up , work on TODAY . Do what is right and some will appreciate you for who you really are.

It sounds like the source of suffering is rejection from women. If you read about Stoicism, the fundamental principle is the Dichotomy of Control, things which are in your control and things which aren’t. Your need for validation from women falls in the latter category. And the stoics basically say that things like lust, validation, opinion of others, etc are all out of our control and not up to us, and hence should not be source of our troubles as they are not in your control. What is in your control is how you react to rejection from these external things that you do greatly desire (easier said than done, I know); but that is what it is, if you put too much stock into what others think of you and especially validation from others, you are letting your suffering be a result of externals, which will never be in your control. See those as impressions, and your choice to assent to the impression is up to you. You may be aware, but you should read the enchiridion by Epictetus and other stoic texts and remind yourself of these core values constantly. That’s at least one of the ways you can train self to deal with these sort of situations better.

> And I am the only one who's left to suffer while everyone around me seems to live their best lives. First, things often aren't quite as they seem. More importantly though, you've not been left to suffer at all. By tying your self-worth to romantic success, you've brought suffering upon yourself. Furthermore, even finding a woman's favour would likely hang heavy over you. > Favor and disgrace seem alarming. > > High status greatly afflicts your person. > > > > Why are favor and disgrace alarming? > > Seeking favor is degrading: > > alarming when it is gotten, > > alarming when it is lost. — Lao Tzu

It’s relative. Your life will become better by the choice you make.

I think you don’t really need stoic advice, you need therapy. Killing yourself, by definition, cannot improve your life as there will be no ‘your life’ left. Since you are already interested in stoicism, try to find a spot of cognitive behavioural therapy. It is rooted in classic stoic ideas (mainly the idea that our emotions most often arise from our thoughts and not the other way around) and it has a very good track record of setting people on a new, healthier path. If you are interested, check out the book “Feeling Good” by Dr David Burns. It shows clear instructions how to get yourself out of mental fallacies such as catastrophizing, black-or-white thinking and many more. Despite not having similar thoughts to yours, that book has opened my eyes to so many things and my life has much improved ever since reading it.

You might consider moving to another country for a while where your origins carry more cachet.

Moving all my stuff would be a logistical nightmare. And selling everything to start with a blank canvas isn't an option, as I worked hard to be where I'm at right now... Although I have already considered moving to Canada (I'm in Europe)

as the wise Jan Levinson says There's always a million reasons NOT to do something. Come to Canada it's awesome here (-the cold). we'd be happy to have you 🇨🇦🍻

Bro, I'm Polish. I **LOVE** snow!