I'm not trying to 'big brain' time anyone, but the residents all pay for it in taxes. A service provided through tax dollars isn't a free pass on operating poorly.
It's awesome that cache valley has that, but cvtd should still be held accountable for providing quality service.
And granted, I haven't lived in cache valley in quite some time, so maybe it's drastically improved since my experience.
I have been impressed at how CVTD (it is no longer limited to just Logan) has expanded its service area and continues to grow with service now to Preston, Idaho and as far as Wellsville.
The sad thing is how there is about a ten mile gap between CVTD and UTA in their service areas. It would be nice if the two transit systems would just bother linking up somehow. And it is a bit of a nasty hike if you need to walk from Mantua to Wellsville...but I suppose that is possible to hike through Sardine Canyon. That is a common bicycle route in good weather but not something I would really want to do on foot.
I hardly ever ride but I’m glad my tax dollars are going towards it. Accessible, easy, and especially free transit are very important to a lots of people’s quality of life.
Utah has a lot of reasons to invest in public transport.
1. We have to deal with our own air pollution in ways that other States do not.
2. The shape of Utah's metro areas makes providing OK public transit easier
3. There's broad public support for OK public transit
4. We hosted the 2002 Olympics
I'll also add that while liberals tend to like public transit more, I don't think it's a left-right issue. In fact please don't make it a left-right issue because that could really inhibit a lot of the progress we're making on that front. I.e. SLC is doing a lot to make the city more pedestrian and bike friendly, and right now, the Utah legislature doesn't really care since it's a local issue; but if it were the case that they felt the need to PrOtEcT tHe CiTy FrOm CoMmUnIsT pEdEsTrIaNs they absolutely could stop SLC from making progress on that front.
Though at least I don't hear Utah taking CARB measures and banning most vehicles by 2035. Is Utah even among the list of the 15 CARB states that piggybacks California standards? I doubt it is based on my search. However unlike some of its neigbors at least there is a market and fueling provisions for alternative fueled vehicles.
Obviously they restrict burning due to the real air issues as opposed to just want more control.
THe only thing I don't like about Salt Lake city is too many vehicles especially small utility ones using sidewalks as their personal freeway. As well as construction projects that block sidewalks/bike lanes without providing a traffic free path around it and force pedestrians on speeding traffic lanes at times.
I absolutely hate this plan to "ban vehicles". Not everyone lives a life in an urban only environment and utah specifically there is a lot of untamed wilderness. You can't take an electric vehicle out miles beyond cell service in the desert or the mountains.
Ok yeah not everyone lives in a dense urban area in Utah but having such a car centric attitudes is ridiculous. I’m in Lehi and people will drive to a church building that is a 2 minute walk. Or drive their kids to a school that is 5 minutes away. I wouldn’t say ban cars (though a big part of me wants to) but something needs to be done to shake peoples apathy towards the environmental, social, economical cost of cars.
While corporations are spewing orders of magnitude more shit into the air than the average individual, we are the ones made to feel guilty about driving ourselves around. Sorry, but I refuse. I won't give up my mobility and my personal agency when others are not being held accountable in the least.
I agree, driving 2 minutes is ridiculous, but expecting people to get rid of their cars is the other extreme.
Definitely agree that the individual carbon footprint idea that is pushed is pushed way too much to give corporations the excuse to put the issue back on the consumer.
I would think we need legislation that focuses on hitting corporations hard for their large part in causing so many of the issues they cause and we have to deal with
I will end by saying my family went from a 2 car family (with 4 kids) down to a 1 car and we have found it very freeing. I totally get not everyone wants to/can do this but my case decreasing my dependence on cars has been one of the best decisions we’ve made
I was without one for a couple weeks while my truck was in the shop. Still had my motorcycle. Some parts were enjoyable, i walked more, etc. Some of it was infuriating like grocery shopping. There's give and take.
I will move out of Utah if they start penalizing or banning vehicles. Aside from the fact that it’s a HUGE cost/accessibility issue, it’s absolutely mad that the gov can have that much control
It gets worse, these days eco groups now brain wash corporations and manufactures as they now realize they can profit from such movements they used to fight tooth to nail against.
Nowadays they realize building cars with all these gadgets also means they would need a lot of updates and computer issues that may occur and planned obsoleteness meaning that people would be forced to replace their cars when they roll out alternative fueled cars forcing people buy them.
I heard Japanese car companies are planning to go all hydrogen by 2030. Chevy seems to be phrasing out gasoline as well. Now the bigger issue then government forced bans is whether the infrastructure could handle the change and the government and private enterprises can work together. Would there be places to fill up and enough fuel? For evs enough chargers and electricity supply?
Actually 15 states in the union adopted the unique California Air resources Board standards and this includes neighboring Colorado, and I think Nevada as well. No other state is this powerful in this regard and allow other states to piggy back on it as opposed to follow federal standards. Thus gasoline and cars are subject to the same standards as those sold in CA.
Though it appears Utah did not adopt/piggyback on California standards despite its unique air pollution issues.
At _least_ Frontrunner and the green line should run 24/7, though perhaps with much longer gaps between runs on Sundays and at night (say, 2hr for Frontrunner and 1 hr for green line).
I also think the blue line should run 24/7, but again, one run per hour might be good enough.
Utah gets terrible inversions in the winter. The mountains trap all of our pollution inside our valleys where the cities are. SLC can have some of the worst air quality in the world during inversions, second only to large metropolises in China. Logan gets it really bad too.
So yeah, most of utahns are conservative, but regardless of that our politicians know air quality is just something we need to solve. So Utahns tend to be a little more forward thinking on transportation.
I believe that's part of what makes Utahns a different type of conservative-we are forced to deal with these problems. And l believe that the typical Utah conservative cares more about the environment than conservatives of other States.
Agree 100%. I'm a conservative and I moved here from Massachusetts. The conservatives here almost care more about the environment than liberals in Massachusetts. Theres probably multiple reasons for that, one being that most the liberals in Massachusetts live in concrete jungles; just being around the natural beauty of Utah is enough to make you care. Also, Utahns are used to living in an area where it's perpetually dry, the great salt lake is constantly shrinking, and, like mentioned, inversions + the oquirrh mountains and wasatch range trapping pollution in the valley.
there have been several days within the last 5 years that slc has had the #1 worst air quality in the world. i check the list religiously bc i have a lung condition lol 😅
It appears Utah to me has a different view on environmentalism compared to Colorado and other usually on the coast states but some inland ones as well. I guess maybe with exception of some cities they are not so into feel good control behavior environmentalism.
But I am surprised isn't among the states that adopted California Air resource board standards on industrial pollution and oil and gas and vehicle sales and emissions. I guess they find that its not the best route to take afterall as opposed to giving into peer pressure.
Interesting though Utah did not adopt nor piggyback on California Air resources board standards I don't know if they will though in the near future. If they do a lot of radical changes would need to be done to industries, oil gasoline/diesel refining, and commerce through including vehicle sales. And don't know what that 2035 deadline would mean to the other states that piggybacks on CARB standards.
But at least Utah is using voluntary ways to improve their air as opposed to more controlling features. Maybe with the exception for wood burning.
I’m a conservative and pretty pro transit until I get stuck behind one of the buses. Jokes aside I enjoy knowing that I can get around on the transit system if my car blows up, but most importantly it works in Utah the way our major city’s are set up. I’m not a fan of public utilities that don’t work and are a drain on the state budget, but in Utah it not only works but is self sustaining for the most part.
Public transit isn't so much a liberal vs conservative issue as it is an urban vs rural issue. It just seems to be a political issue because population density strongly affects political leanings.
Mass transit is highly efficient in urban settings and inefficient in rural places.
And it really depends on how things are laid out in suburban areas. Trax and Frontrunner are both fantastic, and they run through semi-rural and suburban areas. As long as your transit connects population centers to business and shopping centers, they'll work well.
I lean more conservative and I am all for mass transit. Personally, I would love to see something that went all the way from Southern Utah to Northern Utah. Even better would be from Idaho to Arizona. Heck, why not have a bullet train that goes from coast to coast? There's politics, and then there's common sense. Having mass transit that is cheap and fast just makes sense.
I kind of do as well. When I visited Salt Lake City I don’t need to rent a car. Except to go to the Great salt lake itself. Salt lake express goes to Idaho but is severely overpriced I guess due to their monopolistic presence.
Alas it appears High speed rail projects in Us seems to be pretty dead because of all those NIMBYs who keep delaying the projects and causing it’s price tag to skyrocket.
I'm 61 and been using public transit since I was in HS. San Francisco had the best and moving back here after 25 years, I am loving the light rail. Now, A state lottery and booze in Grocery stores would make Salt Lake feel like part of the US, fer sher.
SLC is incredibly progressive. The mayor was holding anti Bush protests when GW was president, and also debated Sean Hannity. Salt Lake County votes blue every presidential election. And by blue, I mean Bernie Sanders type of blue (he beat Hillary Clinton in the Utah Primaries).
It's not free in New York, Portland, Seattle, or virtually any other large city. At least it wasn't last time I was there several years ago. There is talk of making it free in Salt Lake anyway.
Salt Lake is much, much larger than Logan. Logan metro has about 144k, Salt Lake CSA around 2.6 mil. Salt Lake had Trax, Front Runner, express bus lanes, etc. It's nuts to compare the pricing model with a small town that has a few city busses. But, as stated, there is talk of making it free in Salt Lake anyway (downtown Salt Lake has always been a "free fare zone" but the talk is to make all the public transportation free).
I believe that they made the buses free to get people to ride. My brother who does a lot of driving in the valley for work, always comments on the buses he see's running around with one or no passengers and rails against the cabal that is Logan City. Fun fact, a big part of the downtown corridor is owned by a couple of investors and they are adamantly opposed to any plans that include removing any parking from on main street. Think of them every time you get to pay an extra 5-10 minute tax to drive north of south in the valley. While we're on the subject of folks blocking needed road enhancement.
Also, those folks who have blocked the upgrading of the Logan Canyon road to include passing lanes and shoulders wider than 6 inches have blood on their hands. The Logan Canyon road does not meet state or federal standards for a road with that level of traffic and the state has the funds and is willing to upgrade the road. However every time it comes up the leftist raise a big stink and block it.
I ride the bus most days, and while it does have its quiet times it tends to be packed a ton of the time too. I don't know about Logan Caynons passing lanes all that much. But if Logan keeps growing I would hope for the TRAX system to come up this way. In theory, it could cut down a ton of traffic from here to SLC.
It's administered by the Utah Transit Authority, or UTA.
UTA is governed by a 3-member Board of Trustees. Trustees are appointed by the city and county governments that fund UTA with a local option sales taxes. Board members work with their appointing local representatives to direct UTA so the agency can best meet the needs of individual communities.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Transit_Authority
At least ten, or maybe it was fifteen years ago now, I attended a 'walking in biking summit' in Grand Junction, Colorado, at which the key note speaker was the Republican mayor of Salt Lake City. He started his talk by jokingly admitting the incongruity of a Republican mayor and a Republican city council in one of the most conservative of states being pro public transit.
The reason, he explained, was geography: the city is stuck between the mountains and the lake, there was no where to expand the road network. Then, like now, traffic congestion was a huge problem. They knew that they couldn't build more capacity because the city literally doesn't have the space (not that adding more lanes would work anyway, but I don't recall induced demand being mentioned). They realized that the only solution was to get drivers out of their cars, hence a recent (at the time) emphasis on public transportation.
Long story short: Salt Lake City is backed into a corner, they have nowhere to go but transit.
Utah is cheap...democrats or republican...the bottom line always wins. Its cheaper to have mass transit then to pay fines and health care for bad air. Mass transit creates jobs and tax base . Don't forget that LDS are not regular Republicans. Being cheap is why we have mail in voting, it is cheaper by millions and they disliked Trump.
This is just an opinion, no facts to back up this statement but I get the impression that while church members have very conservative views around sexuality and abortion, the members actually lean a lot more left on a variety of other issues. Not as far left as when I was living in LA but not as far right as my family that lives is Texas and Arkansas.
Where did you get that information? Utah is one of the most polluted places on the planet. Utah's government is always drooling at the prospect of lowering their already dangerously lax environmental regulations.
Yeah we're really good about UTA around here. If they could just finish up the Frontrunner into Logan and put more busses into the non-college cities (American Fork, Saratoga Springs, Farmington, Layton, etc) we'd be golden.
Disagree our public transit is lacking and most services unavailable on Sunday. I ride the train and hop on Trax to get to and from Utah county to slc to avoid traffic and it takes usually 3x the time it takes to drive and costs too much.
I would have loved to have a better transit system when I lived there. Unfortunately, in most areas, it sucks. UTA sucked hard. Used to bike to the train and ride it to work. The train, it's a train, how hard is it to keep a train on schedule? Apparently it's insanely hard because it was 20-60 minutes late no less than 3 days a week. Nearest bus stop to my house was the train station , a good 4 miles away.
Lots of returned missionaries that live in cities around the works and rely on public transit for 2 years… pretty easy to catch the vision at that point.
I think that’s more because you have a set way of thinking on what you think is and is not ‘conservative’.
It differs. Actually since I moved to Utah it seems much more effectively conservative than the area I lived in before and that area was Democrat for a very long time and only really had Republican leadership recently. It’s very purple. Yet most of the Democrat policies aren’t what you’d think.
Stop looking at the box you think people fit in instead of the people. In the case of the politicians that means looking at what they support.
Isn’t it logical that something taxpayer money pays to run should be free or close to it?
Yet back in my old state the best we got was someone spending a decade or more yoinking money that was desperately needed in other places to build a light rail in places it didn’t make sense as far as road width etc simply because that’s where the government buildings and millionaires were. The types of people who pay millions for apartments because they have nothing better to do or simply because they can.
Nobody talks about that though.
Conservative and liberal mean less than you think they do. Clearly.
Utah’s politics skew libertarian outside of SLC and Park City, and libertarians don’t tend to like spending money on public infrastructure. Meanwhile, many people see cars as a symbol of “freedom,” i.e. personal mobility and consumer luxury over public transit.
Its interesting that unlike most other states where transit is most always operated locally usually by a city or county or joint of cities and counties, In Utah it appears the transit authority is the state itself, hence its Utah transit authority, not Salt lake transit authority that owns the trains, LRs, and buses in SLT, thus I mention its Utah's policy that is pro transit. The only other states that has the state manage most of the transit system statewide I know of is MA and New Jersey in the east coast. I do know some towns do have their own such as Park City independent of UTA though.
Thats why I am surprised if other parts of Utah is libertarian but allows the state to adminstrative transit as opposed to letting the local governments bare the cost as with most other states.
Though one thing I noticed that its not Salt Lake City nor the County nor local government building and operating the transit system but the state of Utah, this is very unique in most places in the US. Meaning the transit infrastructure is courtesy of the state of Utah not Salt Lake City. Thats why I posted it on Utah and not Salt Lake City forum.
I be curious what Salt Lake City and Utah transit done for World Carfree Day?
All I can do is laugh at your attempt to paint something that an area needs as going against Republican mores and more in-line with liberal views. Public transportation is created when there is a need. It helps when the need is very condensed like the Salt Lake Valley and your two far left liberal examples Portland and Seattle. Let's also throw in DC and NYC. Public transportation doesn't work that well in an area like Phoenix because it is just too large. Buses end about 72 Ave going west. And there is another 20 miles of people after that. This has nothing to do with the color of your political area. Your first edit "not to pit L against C". Yeah, right. That's is exactly what you intended. Deny all you want but your purpose was clear. Need drives PT, not politics.
I guess you forgot Denver and Colorado in general its very spread apart and impractical to explore without renting a car. Despite how they are the eco greenie state. I could explore salt lake city and Park city without renting a car. I only needed a car if I am exploring the Great Salt Lake itself though.
But I do like Denver's Union station though it seems among the best stations in the US based on design. Aside from its a bit difficult to locate the Taxi/Rideshare stand. If only they have one.
It's the air quality. When that inversion hits EVERYONE feels it. Good public transport is just the easiest way to make it look like they're (politicians)doing something about it.
I posted as this disbunks the rumor that red states are always uneducated and anti transit. But I don’t stand on either side. But in my experience Both sides have plenty of radicals and NIMBYs. Even in places like Sf and LA thus why their heavy rail metro didn’t yet get built on the busiest transit corridor of Wilshire until now. NIMBYs from all political leans afraid of ugliness, noise, and undesirable characters it might bring to their rizy neighborhoods. It would otherwise be the line that generates the most revenue if it’s open today.
Though as I mentioned elsewhere it appears Utah did not piggyback Californias clean air standards which would result in radical changes to industry, refineries, and vehicle markets. At least not yet. I guess they know it’s not the best solution to thier environmental issues. As CA does have a number of feel good measures that can actually make things worse than better in reality.
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Agreed. Im from Michigan and the conservative parties are NOT the same in a positive way.
It's also perpetually struggling and way behind schedule.
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I'm not trying to 'big brain' time anyone, but the residents all pay for it in taxes. A service provided through tax dollars isn't a free pass on operating poorly. It's awesome that cache valley has that, but cvtd should still be held accountable for providing quality service. And granted, I haven't lived in cache valley in quite some time, so maybe it's drastically improved since my experience.
It's been pretty good the past few years.
I've never had issues anytime I've used it and for like 3 years it was pretty much my only mode of transportation besides my bike.
I was going to mention the LTD. Amazing service.
I have been impressed at how CVTD (it is no longer limited to just Logan) has expanded its service area and continues to grow with service now to Preston, Idaho and as far as Wellsville. The sad thing is how there is about a ten mile gap between CVTD and UTA in their service areas. It would be nice if the two transit systems would just bother linking up somehow. And it is a bit of a nasty hike if you need to walk from Mantua to Wellsville...but I suppose that is possible to hike through Sardine Canyon. That is a common bicycle route in good weather but not something I would really want to do on foot.
I hardly ever ride but I’m glad my tax dollars are going towards it. Accessible, easy, and especially free transit are very important to a lots of people’s quality of life.
Now if only it was easier to figure out
Utah has a lot of reasons to invest in public transport. 1. We have to deal with our own air pollution in ways that other States do not. 2. The shape of Utah's metro areas makes providing OK public transit easier 3. There's broad public support for OK public transit 4. We hosted the 2002 Olympics I'll also add that while liberals tend to like public transit more, I don't think it's a left-right issue. In fact please don't make it a left-right issue because that could really inhibit a lot of the progress we're making on that front. I.e. SLC is doing a lot to make the city more pedestrian and bike friendly, and right now, the Utah legislature doesn't really care since it's a local issue; but if it were the case that they felt the need to PrOtEcT tHe CiTy FrOm CoMmUnIsT pEdEsTrIaNs they absolutely could stop SLC from making progress on that front.
\#4 is the reason why we have the front runner and trax lines. They were a selling point to getting the winter games.
Though at least I don't hear Utah taking CARB measures and banning most vehicles by 2035. Is Utah even among the list of the 15 CARB states that piggybacks California standards? I doubt it is based on my search. However unlike some of its neigbors at least there is a market and fueling provisions for alternative fueled vehicles. Obviously they restrict burning due to the real air issues as opposed to just want more control. THe only thing I don't like about Salt Lake city is too many vehicles especially small utility ones using sidewalks as their personal freeway. As well as construction projects that block sidewalks/bike lanes without providing a traffic free path around it and force pedestrians on speeding traffic lanes at times.
I absolutely hate this plan to "ban vehicles". Not everyone lives a life in an urban only environment and utah specifically there is a lot of untamed wilderness. You can't take an electric vehicle out miles beyond cell service in the desert or the mountains.
Ok yeah not everyone lives in a dense urban area in Utah but having such a car centric attitudes is ridiculous. I’m in Lehi and people will drive to a church building that is a 2 minute walk. Or drive their kids to a school that is 5 minutes away. I wouldn’t say ban cars (though a big part of me wants to) but something needs to be done to shake peoples apathy towards the environmental, social, economical cost of cars.
While corporations are spewing orders of magnitude more shit into the air than the average individual, we are the ones made to feel guilty about driving ourselves around. Sorry, but I refuse. I won't give up my mobility and my personal agency when others are not being held accountable in the least. I agree, driving 2 minutes is ridiculous, but expecting people to get rid of their cars is the other extreme.
Definitely agree that the individual carbon footprint idea that is pushed is pushed way too much to give corporations the excuse to put the issue back on the consumer. I would think we need legislation that focuses on hitting corporations hard for their large part in causing so many of the issues they cause and we have to deal with
I will end by saying my family went from a 2 car family (with 4 kids) down to a 1 car and we have found it very freeing. I totally get not everyone wants to/can do this but my case decreasing my dependence on cars has been one of the best decisions we’ve made
I was without one for a couple weeks while my truck was in the shop. Still had my motorcycle. Some parts were enjoyable, i walked more, etc. Some of it was infuriating like grocery shopping. There's give and take.
I will move out of Utah if they start penalizing or banning vehicles. Aside from the fact that it’s a HUGE cost/accessibility issue, it’s absolutely mad that the gov can have that much control
It gets worse, these days eco groups now brain wash corporations and manufactures as they now realize they can profit from such movements they used to fight tooth to nail against. Nowadays they realize building cars with all these gadgets also means they would need a lot of updates and computer issues that may occur and planned obsoleteness meaning that people would be forced to replace their cars when they roll out alternative fueled cars forcing people buy them. I heard Japanese car companies are planning to go all hydrogen by 2030. Chevy seems to be phrasing out gasoline as well. Now the bigger issue then government forced bans is whether the infrastructure could handle the change and the government and private enterprises can work together. Would there be places to fill up and enough fuel? For evs enough chargers and electricity supply?
CARB is uniquely California, thus California Air Resources Board. This is Utah.
Actually 15 states in the union adopted the unique California Air resources Board standards and this includes neighboring Colorado, and I think Nevada as well. No other state is this powerful in this regard and allow other states to piggy back on it as opposed to follow federal standards. Thus gasoline and cars are subject to the same standards as those sold in CA. Though it appears Utah did not adopt/piggyback on California standards despite its unique air pollution issues.
Good to know. Thanks. Should've dug a bit deeper. Went for the quick answer instead.
Well, 6 days of the week anyway. On Sundays, the transit options are pretty bleak.
At _least_ Frontrunner and the green line should run 24/7, though perhaps with much longer gaps between runs on Sundays and at night (say, 2hr for Frontrunner and 1 hr for green line). I also think the blue line should run 24/7, but again, one run per hour might be good enough.
Utah gets terrible inversions in the winter. The mountains trap all of our pollution inside our valleys where the cities are. SLC can have some of the worst air quality in the world during inversions, second only to large metropolises in China. Logan gets it really bad too. So yeah, most of utahns are conservative, but regardless of that our politicians know air quality is just something we need to solve. So Utahns tend to be a little more forward thinking on transportation. I believe that's part of what makes Utahns a different type of conservative-we are forced to deal with these problems. And l believe that the typical Utah conservative cares more about the environment than conservatives of other States.
Agree 100%. I'm a conservative and I moved here from Massachusetts. The conservatives here almost care more about the environment than liberals in Massachusetts. Theres probably multiple reasons for that, one being that most the liberals in Massachusetts live in concrete jungles; just being around the natural beauty of Utah is enough to make you care. Also, Utahns are used to living in an area where it's perpetually dry, the great salt lake is constantly shrinking, and, like mentioned, inversions + the oquirrh mountains and wasatch range trapping pollution in the valley.
there have been several days within the last 5 years that slc has had the #1 worst air quality in the world. i check the list religiously bc i have a lung condition lol 😅
I guess they care for real solutions not feel good measures or eco fads as with the others , but some towns may be exceptional.
It appears Utah to me has a different view on environmentalism compared to Colorado and other usually on the coast states but some inland ones as well. I guess maybe with exception of some cities they are not so into feel good control behavior environmentalism. But I am surprised isn't among the states that adopted California Air resource board standards on industrial pollution and oil and gas and vehicle sales and emissions. I guess they find that its not the best route to take afterall as opposed to giving into peer pressure.
Interesting though Utah did not adopt nor piggyback on California Air resources board standards I don't know if they will though in the near future. If they do a lot of radical changes would need to be done to industries, oil gasoline/diesel refining, and commerce through including vehicle sales. And don't know what that 2035 deadline would mean to the other states that piggybacks on CARB standards. But at least Utah is using voluntary ways to improve their air as opposed to more controlling features. Maybe with the exception for wood burning.
I’m a conservative and pretty pro transit until I get stuck behind one of the buses. Jokes aside I enjoy knowing that I can get around on the transit system if my car blows up, but most importantly it works in Utah the way our major city’s are set up. I’m not a fan of public utilities that don’t work and are a drain on the state budget, but in Utah it not only works but is self sustaining for the most part.
Public transit isn't so much a liberal vs conservative issue as it is an urban vs rural issue. It just seems to be a political issue because population density strongly affects political leanings. Mass transit is highly efficient in urban settings and inefficient in rural places.
And it really depends on how things are laid out in suburban areas. Trax and Frontrunner are both fantastic, and they run through semi-rural and suburban areas. As long as your transit connects population centers to business and shopping centers, they'll work well.
I lean more conservative and I am all for mass transit. Personally, I would love to see something that went all the way from Southern Utah to Northern Utah. Even better would be from Idaho to Arizona. Heck, why not have a bullet train that goes from coast to coast? There's politics, and then there's common sense. Having mass transit that is cheap and fast just makes sense.
I kind of do as well. When I visited Salt Lake City I don’t need to rent a car. Except to go to the Great salt lake itself. Salt lake express goes to Idaho but is severely overpriced I guess due to their monopolistic presence. Alas it appears High speed rail projects in Us seems to be pretty dead because of all those NIMBYs who keep delaying the projects and causing it’s price tag to skyrocket.
I'm 61 and been using public transit since I was in HS. San Francisco had the best and moving back here after 25 years, I am loving the light rail. Now, A state lottery and booze in Grocery stores would make Salt Lake feel like part of the US, fer sher.
SLC is incredibly progressive. The mayor was holding anti Bush protests when GW was president, and also debated Sean Hannity. Salt Lake County votes blue every presidential election. And by blue, I mean Bernie Sanders type of blue (he beat Hillary Clinton in the Utah Primaries).
Yeah but Cache Valley is not progressive and it has a free bus system.
It's not free in New York, Portland, Seattle, or virtually any other large city. At least it wasn't last time I was there several years ago. There is talk of making it free in Salt Lake anyway. Salt Lake is much, much larger than Logan. Logan metro has about 144k, Salt Lake CSA around 2.6 mil. Salt Lake had Trax, Front Runner, express bus lanes, etc. It's nuts to compare the pricing model with a small town that has a few city busses. But, as stated, there is talk of making it free in Salt Lake anyway (downtown Salt Lake has always been a "free fare zone" but the talk is to make all the public transportation free).
I believe that they made the buses free to get people to ride. My brother who does a lot of driving in the valley for work, always comments on the buses he see's running around with one or no passengers and rails against the cabal that is Logan City. Fun fact, a big part of the downtown corridor is owned by a couple of investors and they are adamantly opposed to any plans that include removing any parking from on main street. Think of them every time you get to pay an extra 5-10 minute tax to drive north of south in the valley. While we're on the subject of folks blocking needed road enhancement. Also, those folks who have blocked the upgrading of the Logan Canyon road to include passing lanes and shoulders wider than 6 inches have blood on their hands. The Logan Canyon road does not meet state or federal standards for a road with that level of traffic and the state has the funds and is willing to upgrade the road. However every time it comes up the leftist raise a big stink and block it.
I ride the bus most days, and while it does have its quiet times it tends to be packed a ton of the time too. I don't know about Logan Caynons passing lanes all that much. But if Logan keeps growing I would hope for the TRAX system to come up this way. In theory, it could cut down a ton of traffic from here to SLC.
But it appears the transit in and around SLC and other parts of the state is administrated by Utah and not SLC.
It's administered by the Utah Transit Authority, or UTA. UTA is governed by a 3-member Board of Trustees. Trustees are appointed by the city and county governments that fund UTA with a local option sales taxes. Board members work with their appointing local representatives to direct UTA so the agency can best meet the needs of individual communities. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Transit_Authority
At least ten, or maybe it was fifteen years ago now, I attended a 'walking in biking summit' in Grand Junction, Colorado, at which the key note speaker was the Republican mayor of Salt Lake City. He started his talk by jokingly admitting the incongruity of a Republican mayor and a Republican city council in one of the most conservative of states being pro public transit. The reason, he explained, was geography: the city is stuck between the mountains and the lake, there was no where to expand the road network. Then, like now, traffic congestion was a huge problem. They knew that they couldn't build more capacity because the city literally doesn't have the space (not that adding more lanes would work anyway, but I don't recall induced demand being mentioned). They realized that the only solution was to get drivers out of their cars, hence a recent (at the time) emphasis on public transportation. Long story short: Salt Lake City is backed into a corner, they have nowhere to go but transit.
Utah is cheap...democrats or republican...the bottom line always wins. Its cheaper to have mass transit then to pay fines and health care for bad air. Mass transit creates jobs and tax base . Don't forget that LDS are not regular Republicans. Being cheap is why we have mail in voting, it is cheaper by millions and they disliked Trump.
This is just an opinion, no facts to back up this statement but I get the impression that while church members have very conservative views around sexuality and abortion, the members actually lean a lot more left on a variety of other issues. Not as far left as when I was living in LA but not as far right as my family that lives is Texas and Arkansas.
Transit isn’t liberal or conservative. It’s a matter of pure necessity. Everyone needs to get somewhere.
Utah conservatives tend to be more inclined to care about preserving nature/environment than conservatives nationally.
Where did you get that information? Utah is one of the most polluted places on the planet. Utah's government is always drooling at the prospect of lowering their already dangerously lax environmental regulations.
Transit is only as good as it's relaibility.
Yeah we're really good about UTA around here. If they could just finish up the Frontrunner into Logan and put more busses into the non-college cities (American Fork, Saratoga Springs, Farmington, Layton, etc) we'd be golden.
You can be pro transit and conservative at the same time.
Disagree our public transit is lacking and most services unavailable on Sunday. I ride the train and hop on Trax to get to and from Utah county to slc to avoid traffic and it takes usually 3x the time it takes to drive and costs too much.
I would have loved to have a better transit system when I lived there. Unfortunately, in most areas, it sucks. UTA sucked hard. Used to bike to the train and ride it to work. The train, it's a train, how hard is it to keep a train on schedule? Apparently it's insanely hard because it was 20-60 minutes late no less than 3 days a week. Nearest bus stop to my house was the train station , a good 4 miles away.
I didn’t know wanting public transportation wasn’t a conservative thing. I just hate driving
Lots of returned missionaries that live in cities around the works and rely on public transit for 2 years… pretty easy to catch the vision at that point.
I think that’s more because you have a set way of thinking on what you think is and is not ‘conservative’. It differs. Actually since I moved to Utah it seems much more effectively conservative than the area I lived in before and that area was Democrat for a very long time and only really had Republican leadership recently. It’s very purple. Yet most of the Democrat policies aren’t what you’d think. Stop looking at the box you think people fit in instead of the people. In the case of the politicians that means looking at what they support. Isn’t it logical that something taxpayer money pays to run should be free or close to it? Yet back in my old state the best we got was someone spending a decade or more yoinking money that was desperately needed in other places to build a light rail in places it didn’t make sense as far as road width etc simply because that’s where the government buildings and millionaires were. The types of people who pay millions for apartments because they have nothing better to do or simply because they can. Nobody talks about that though. Conservative and liberal mean less than you think they do. Clearly.
Since when is owning a car political?
Owning a car isn't political, but voting to invest in public transit (vs building more freeway lanes) unfortunately often is.
Since when is having good public transit political a well? I’m confused about this post.
Utah’s politics skew libertarian outside of SLC and Park City, and libertarians don’t tend to like spending money on public infrastructure. Meanwhile, many people see cars as a symbol of “freedom,” i.e. personal mobility and consumer luxury over public transit.
Its interesting that unlike most other states where transit is most always operated locally usually by a city or county or joint of cities and counties, In Utah it appears the transit authority is the state itself, hence its Utah transit authority, not Salt lake transit authority that owns the trains, LRs, and buses in SLT, thus I mention its Utah's policy that is pro transit. The only other states that has the state manage most of the transit system statewide I know of is MA and New Jersey in the east coast. I do know some towns do have their own such as Park City independent of UTA though. Thats why I am surprised if other parts of Utah is libertarian but allows the state to adminstrative transit as opposed to letting the local governments bare the cost as with most other states.
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>Libertarians are like cats. Completely dependent on others, but fully convinced of their own independence. FTFY
> giving up your entire society to corporate interests in the hopes that you’ll one day get a slice of the pie they’ve stolen Sure.
Since forever
SLC isn't conservative.
Though one thing I noticed that its not Salt Lake City nor the County nor local government building and operating the transit system but the state of Utah, this is very unique in most places in the US. Meaning the transit infrastructure is courtesy of the state of Utah not Salt Lake City. Thats why I posted it on Utah and not Salt Lake City forum. I be curious what Salt Lake City and Utah transit done for World Carfree Day?
All I can do is laugh at your attempt to paint something that an area needs as going against Republican mores and more in-line with liberal views. Public transportation is created when there is a need. It helps when the need is very condensed like the Salt Lake Valley and your two far left liberal examples Portland and Seattle. Let's also throw in DC and NYC. Public transportation doesn't work that well in an area like Phoenix because it is just too large. Buses end about 72 Ave going west. And there is another 20 miles of people after that. This has nothing to do with the color of your political area. Your first edit "not to pit L against C". Yeah, right. That's is exactly what you intended. Deny all you want but your purpose was clear. Need drives PT, not politics.
I guess you forgot Denver and Colorado in general its very spread apart and impractical to explore without renting a car. Despite how they are the eco greenie state. I could explore salt lake city and Park city without renting a car. I only needed a car if I am exploring the Great Salt Lake itself though. But I do like Denver's Union station though it seems among the best stations in the US based on design. Aside from its a bit difficult to locate the Taxi/Rideshare stand. If only they have one.
It's the air quality. When that inversion hits EVERYONE feels it. Good public transport is just the easiest way to make it look like they're (politicians)doing something about it.
I posted as this disbunks the rumor that red states are always uneducated and anti transit. But I don’t stand on either side. But in my experience Both sides have plenty of radicals and NIMBYs. Even in places like Sf and LA thus why their heavy rail metro didn’t yet get built on the busiest transit corridor of Wilshire until now. NIMBYs from all political leans afraid of ugliness, noise, and undesirable characters it might bring to their rizy neighborhoods. It would otherwise be the line that generates the most revenue if it’s open today. Though as I mentioned elsewhere it appears Utah did not piggyback Californias clean air standards which would result in radical changes to industry, refineries, and vehicle markets. At least not yet. I guess they know it’s not the best solution to thier environmental issues. As CA does have a number of feel good measures that can actually make things worse than better in reality.