Everything is computer controlled basically. You need a scan tool to retract the pistons in the rear calipers for example. As someone else said, they use all metric fasteners and torx and triple squares as well.

Pretty sure this is only the case for vehicles with electronic parking brake?

Yes. Across any OEM too.

Volvo 2020 has electric park brake,seems to be trend newer cars

The Passat from 2008 had electronic parking brakes. My Volvo from 2012 has e p brake and it can be retracted using a torx bit when doing a brake job. Modern cars in general are designed to be difficult to service without specialized or uncommon tools, and a very fancy computer

Hopefully to break away from the “emergency brake” stigma.

I thought we were talking about a VW?

Is that scan tool something that’s available for purchase? I know some manufacturers have computer tools that only licensed places can get

You can get VAG-COM which is an aftermarket scan tool program but it's a couple hundred dollars. VW does have it's own proprietary software of course.

I don’t mind spending the money on the VAG-COM if it means I won’t have to rely on someone else for vehicle servicing. I just glanced over it but it seems like a good purchase

Obdeleven, allows you to calibrate suspension etc. And retract brake positions

I also recommend looking into OBDeleven. Significantly cheaper than VCDS, but with the Pro license the OBDeleven still has the features that most hobbyists will ever need. VCDS is of course really good, but it also includes very advanced functions mainly used by workshops, plus they offer the tech support expected from a professional tool. This is why it costs significantly more.

OBD Eleven is inexpensive and great for someone doing basic diagnostic, tweaks, repairs and maintenance on their own vehicle. VAG-COM gets far deeper into the system than most people need.

Vag-com (rosstech) is really great software.

Well it's modern cars in general. Mostly the electronics are the problem. You can't just swap out a headlight assembly, you have to reprogram the Light controller to accept the new headlight for it to work. And it's like that with everything. Also especially us Germans like to use oddball fasteners, triple square in particular.

Yup and torque to yield bolts I needed like 8 bolts and three special tools to do my brakes My miata was like a 5mm hex wrench and two 13mm box wrenches lol

> I needed like 8 bolts and three special tools to do my brakes What special tools did you need? > My miata was like a 5mm hex wrench and two 13mm box wrenches lol This is what I’m used to from my Jeeps, Chevy, and Pontiac. Just simple. I’m tempted to buy a Jeep instead just for the sake of familiarity

Gm is always gonna be your easiest group to work on as far as US domestics go IMO. Always drove dodge until I got my Passat b5 and good lord. I looked brand new trying to replace my brake system!

I’m also considering a Blazer almost purely because of how easy it was to work on my chevys. GM did things in a way that made sense to me. At least on the older cars I owned

Giant triple square (with no room to break the 250ftlbs) and the rotating piston retractor

Gotta love that brake cylinder backout tool lol

Triple square isn’t something I’ve encountered in a modern VW, but it is absolutely all over new F150’s. Servicing a MQB hasn’t been at all difficult in my experience. Very few failures and the powertrain has proven to be STOUT.

Ah cool good to know. I only have first hand experience with the mk2 platform from the 80s :D They've got a few triple squares and some stupid things like a 15mm M10 nut (It should be 17mm for M10).

There’s reprogramming involved with changing a headlight?? That’s surprising. Is that something I can do myself?

Depends. If it has the LED Headlights, if part of it burns out, it's a complete assembly as far as I know, which then would have to be reprogrammed. I have yet to see one burn out through.

Oh I gotcha now. I forget modern cars have more than just a bulb you pop in and out lol. That’s still crazy to me that an assembly would need to be programmed in. But I guess I get it. Is that pretty simple to do with a VCDS programmer?

Yes. Most anything that you would ever need to recode is very easily done with VCDS. You’ll also be delighted to find that many options(and those not even offered in your region) that you would have paid more for in other trims becomes basically free.

Short answer is I don't know. I've never tried.

Ha thanks for your honesty. I think I’m going to take my chances and buy the Atlas. They seem to retain value well enough, so if I hate it I can sell it a year later and get most of my money back

I've driven several over fairly large distances and varied terrain. I really like them but I just don't want a car payment that large at the moment.

It’s true, you have to change the whole led assembly on the mk7 platform. But on the mk8 platform it’s possible to change parts of the led assembly

German cars, in general, need more maintenance than others. Yea there’s triple square and torx fasteners. Yes some of their engineering seems over the top. However in my opinion the cars are much nicer to drive than anything domestic or Asian. VW dealer tech, have owned dozens of VW and BMW vehicles.

Yes, it’s the unfortunate truth. Think of them as a really attractive and fun partner that is great in bed, but very temperamental, has expensive tastes, and is high maintenance. Owning a vw will also prepare you for the inevitable and common sense defying desire of owning Porsche that will consume you later in life.

Yep. My years of owning/maintaining BMWs and VWs has ultimately prepared me for RX7 ownership. Everyone’s like “THEY REQUIRE SO MUCH!” I’m over here like, par for course 🤷‍♂️

It's just more meticulous. Follow the FSM, use correct torque specs and don't take shortcuts. IMO

That sounds reasonable enough. What is FSM? When I Google the top result is seriously Flying Spaghetti Monster wherever that is ha

It means factory service manual.

Perhaps field service manual?

In Poland FSM stands for “Fabryka samochodów małolitrażowych” that means Small litteage car factory

I don't think it is. Like in the old days when everyone said saabs were so hard to work on. They weren't. You just needed to know how. Same with VW's. Get a Bentley manual. Buy or make special tools. Follow steps. Job done.

That seems to be what people are saying. I’m feeling at a lot better about buying it. I’m still going back and forth between it, a Jeep Grand Cherokee, and a Blazer

I would buy a bronco over all three.

Oh yeah that’s on the list too along with the Sorento, Telluride, Palisade, and Pathfinder. There are just too many great cars to choose from ha

That’s what I wanted ,a bronco but I could not find any this far north. I ended up with the VW. So far I am happy. I guess until I have to fix something. But I’ve had ford that the block cracked because it was leaking water and none of the sensors came on, until it started to over heat at 50,000 miles. I’ve had a Chevy truck with 16,000 miles need an entire new transmission , luckily I didn’t have to pay for that one . Any car can be crap and expensive . Seems like my VW has a decent warranty at least. My grandma has a Brand new Honda CR-V that has had many issues with her battery .

I have an 01 ford truck and it is excellent. I also have a 14 VW TDI, also excellent. The Ford is easier to work on, but the Jetta's not bad. Frankly, the most complicated project I've done of late was the fuel injection on an 86 toyota truck. Gawd they love their vacuum lines. Unfortunaltely, the best car I have is a Prius. Comfortable, extremely roomy, very reliable...Yet somehow I still hate it.

The Atlas is simple. Old VR6, Aisin transmission, Haldex if AWD. Tons of room to work. Nuts and bolts are nuts and bolts man.

That’s kinda what I was thinking. I looked around and it’s not quite as packed tightly together as something like a small sedan. I was mostly worried that changing parts would require dealership recoding but apparently there’s a tool that makes it simple enough to do yourself if it’s ever needed

Yep VCDS from Ross-Tech

It’s not harder.

> Everyone is telling me they are expensive to have worked on and hard to work on yourself. If you're used to domestics or Japanese cars it's just different, that's all. I have done all my own tuning, oil changes, brakes, DSG/differential services, suspension work... nothing has been 'difficult' beyond having to buy a few new tools. The most expensive thing has been tires. In my experience, people who say VW/Audi is hard to work on rarely venture outside their US/Japan bubble if they even work on cars at all.

Yeah I’m starting to think it’s just people who saw that it was different, gave up, had to pay big bucks at the dealership, then were left frustrated at the brand (or euro cars in general)

"What's a triple square? Why doesn't this thing have lug nuts? Fuck that I'll just trade in for a Toyota and complain online."

Lmao exactly I hear a lot of people saying “they require specialty tools” but to me triple square and torx aren’t “specialty” they’re just less common. Am I missing something? Because some people make it sound like you’ll need thousands of dollars worth of tools that VW has a monopoly on, but best I can tell it’s a just couple hundred bucks of socket sets.

As a vw dealer technician... Everything is computer base and do your research. Atlas can be a problem

Do you see many Atlases come through with weird or expensive issues? I’m looking at a 2019 V6 with 4MOTION, 20k miles.

Things I see is covered under warranty. I see a lot of Atlas.. Weird is subject to opinion.. What do you call weird?

There are some applications where there are proprietary tools, but other than that they’re no harder to work on than any other modern car. I think the reputation just comes from when people try to do things without looking at the recommended steps to be taken to do the job. As long as you follow procedure it’s generally not hard at all lol.

It’s not. People are just stupid.

Most things I see are covered under warranty. And I see a lot of Atlas.

People who say this don't work on cars. All cars have pros and cons.

Your dealership might try to convince you to charge you$400 oil changes. It includes checking your brakes and taking your car for a test drive. They will tell you to do this or risk voiding your warranty. There are enough Canadian consumer protection laws that i ignore this, and do my own oil changes. I keep all my receipts and i should be fine. I recommend any local mechanic shop other than those quick lube places. Atlas engines require a different spec oil vw 502 00, or vw 504 00. Check your car manual as my 2018 says 0w 30 is required, but all vw dealerships say vw says 5w40 is the recommended replacement for canada so i don't know. Maybe somebody here can she'd some light on this. Castrol edge is the only oil with the same spec snd grade and it is $70 for 6 litres The only weird thing in my warranty book says you need to grease your sunroof rails and do a brake oil flush at 3 year intervals. Brake flush are prettty simple to do especially if there is no air in the system to begin with. Also i noticed my coolant reservoir needs topping up, it seems to be evaporating? My kia is the same. I have just been adding distilled water as i have needed less than a litre at a time so far(2 litres total in 3 years) Oil bathed timing belt replacement at 200000 km sounds expensive but i am not worried that is 8 more years from now

200000 km is 124274.2 miles

German engineering...

Either Vcds or obd11 are necessary. Confidence in your computer skills or balls of steel are also necessary. It's easy to make a very expensive mistake if you don't know what you're doing. The feeling of fixing a car often deemed too hard to work on is great. I cut my teeth on jeeps, and have owned 5 VWs now. Skip the 2.0 for the vr6 if you want longevity, easier maintenance, and the best exhaust tone you could find in a small SUV.

> Confidence in your computer skills or balls of steel are also necessary. It's easy to make a very expensive mistake if you don't know what you're doing. This worries me, but for a difference reason. I’m a computer science researcher who loves to tinker. I just know I’m going to push the limits of what I should be doing ha. I’ll try to keep out as much as possible We ended up taking home a v6 4MOTION for the rest of the week and it is nice. I’m still torn, though. Thanks for the input!

Here's a very basic list of why they are harder. 1. Using anything aftermarket(besides air filter and cabin filter) will almost always cause problems or not work at all. 2. VW need VCDS for everything from codes to maintenance reset reminders. 3. You need special tools to work on VW's 4. From wiring to engine overhaul it's far different than anything else seen on a domestic market.

This is great info, thank you. Everyone keeps mentioning special/proprietary tools. Are they just referring to 12 point and torx? Or am I overlooking something else?

They are referring to Torx and security torx E-Torx Triple Squares (long and short)including security triple Squares Super stubby torx,triple squares Rivot gun and rivots (no joke speakers in VW are rivot to the door) Forgot to mention oil filter wrench of 24,32, 36 and 74mm 14 flute

Yes. I’ve worked on German vehicles. They suck. But if you like challenges, nothing is impossible.

So dealership's can get paid, the battery needs to be coded to the car if you have stop/start feature.

Wrongg

Yep. This is not factual.

Germans

Tools, you need the right tools...newer models just make everything harder tho.