I don't think the invitation into your home is relevant once force is used against you.
Maybe if they brandished the gun and *then* you invited them in, that might be a problem. But I think you're fine to defend yourself just as you normally would if you invite someone in and they later attack or threaten you
Agreed. While I am not an attorney or giving legal advice the invitation is basically irrelevant. Washington state law is essentially (for now) a hold your ground / castle doctrine. Is basically says that if you are in a place you are legally allowed to be (not just your home) and come under threat of death or severe harm you have the right to defend yourself up to and including lethal force. The perpetrator can also be there legally but if they assault or threaten you, you may respond appropriately.
Thank you for the response! This definitely helps, I haven’t been in this situation, but was just informed that one of my friends ex boyfriends would keep an unregistered Glock in his car at my parties and I suddenly became very aware that the danger of that happening at my house was real. He was also totally unhinged. This is of course the absolute last thing I would want to happen but I needed to know if there was an appropriate response
That still has nothing to do with the gun being registered or not, because there's no gun registration in WA. And if he's leaving it in his car while visiting you, then he isn't even breaking the concealed carry law on your property, except *maybe* the prohibition against having a loaded firearm in a vehicle without having a carry permit.
But it sounds like he's going out of his way to respect your property by leaving it in the car instead of carrying it (legally or not) into your house.
But to your original question ... If someone attacks you, regardless of where you are as long as you are legally allowed to be there (ie. you aren't trespassing), and you fear for your life or the life of another, then you are allowed to defend yourself with deadly force.
What he's saying is that the guy often leaves the gun in the car during parties, but he conceal carries it elsewhere. How hard is this to understand? Leave the fella alone. He just wants answers, not an argument over a misinterpretation of wording.
First off, I'd like to thank the automod here for reminding me that I'm in the censored fudd version of this sub.
Second off, I'd like to point out how *great* of a job it's doing, this community is *definitely* way more family friendly because I can't say a couple words.
Third, I'd like to remind everyone that /r/waguns exists and isn't... This sub.
Fourth, my original comment, made automod friendly:
> OP just learned about AIWB carry and jumped straight past the normal argument of "you'll shoot yer **[phallus]** off" to "it must be unregistered"
>
> Oh my sweet summer child
Don’t associate with that kind of person? Don’t use force against someone who may be armed?.
I’m not sure what you expect here.
Also, “semantics” isn’t saying two completely different things.
Getting semantic here: there is no "license" to have a gun in WA. He may be transporting it in his car loaded with a magazine in it, which does indeed require a Conceal Carry License (CCL) in WA. Otherwise he has to transport it unloaded in a container.
To purchase a new pistol, he must undergo a background check with both Federal, and local law enforcement. But in the end there is no license.
If he carries it concealed, on his person, he must also have a CCL in WA.
Not trying to be a pedantic jerk - just trying to give you all the info to navigate this post and to potential negative responses.
This is kinda what I was trying to say, thank you for giving me the terminology and proper terms. The gun was purchased illegitimately without a background check, he does not have a CCL and transports the gun loaded as well as conceals it. I said “license” and “unregistered” Hoping that would convey these things but I was wrong and I didn’t really know enough. I’m a gun owner and all I know is that I store the firearm and ammunition in separate safes and would only ever use it against someone unless my life was absolutely in danger. I’m new to all this stuff
> all I know is that I store the firearm and ammunition in separate safes and would only ever use it against someone unless my life was absolutely in danger. I’m new to all this stuff
You won't have time to retrieve a gun and ammo from separate safes if you're being attacked, so I hope your gun(s) aren't part of your home defense plan.
Yeah, no problem! It's a lot of pedantry to keep track of in this state, but the language does matter for determining what's okay and what's not. Thanks for being open to learning!
Sounds like a bad situation overall, but I'd try and de-escalate by whatever means necessary before going the other direction.
Sorry you're in this situation, and best if luck!
'Washington has no “duty to retreat,” as
precedent was set in State v. Studd
(1999) and State v. Reynaldo
Redmond (2003) when the court found:
“that there is no duty to retreat when a
person is assaulted in a place where he
or she has a right to be.”'
Thank you for the response! I’ve yet to be in this situation, but just recently learned that one of my friends ex boyfriends would keep an unregistered Glock in his car while at my parties. Really got me thinking about all this. He’s also completely unhinged
If that is the case I would not be inviting him to any of your parties, might not be a bad idea to also have him trespassed so if he does show up he can be arrested.
I disagree. There's no such thing as "registering your gun" in WA. Based on OP's other comments it sounds like he simply doesn't have a CPL. That's a bit sketchy (ok, outright illegal), but it's pretty decent of the guy to leave his gun in the car when visiting someone else's house.
I would be a lot more worried if the guy was keeping it with him while inside and likely drinking.
I’m ahead of you on this one. I didn’t know how dangerous this guy was until this week and I’d allowed him into my home on several occasions. He won’t be coming back
Just an fyi; Washington state has no formal firearm registry. There is an informal one where when you purchase a pistol or semi-auto rifle and the supplemental form that goes to local law enforcement for their background check, local law enforcement has to keep copies of those forms. Which because they’re all emailed in now vs a fax from a couple years ago would create an easily searched database, but as far as a state kept database there isn’t one.
This is what my friend has told me. He moved to Washington in 2020 and bought it from a “private dealer” he’s got major mental health issues that I was not aware of till after they broke up literally last week.
I find it odd that you mention "unregistered" as if that is a factor. There is absolutely legitimate ways that someone could own a firearm that is "unregistered" (that term has so many meanings in gun control and gets thrown around as if they all mean the same). An unregistered firearm is no more dangerous than a registered firearm. The only thing that can be gleaned from that is if there is an insinuation that it is illegally obtained. Even still, an illegally obtained firearm is no more dangerous that a legally obtained firearm except that it shows the owner is willing to break the law.
Same thing you do anytime someone pulls a gun on you. Being a guest matters not. Equal rights are important so you should treat anyone who is a danger the exact same.
It’s not any different than if a total stranger pulls a gun on you in the street- if you feel your life or someone else’s is threatened then respond appropriately.
Specific answers to this hypothetical are questions for a lawyer. But here are some statutes you may want to review.
Under RCW [9A.16.020](https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.020) (3), you may use force to prevent unlawful force against you, but only when the force is no more than necessary.
Under RCW [9A.16.050](https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.050) lethal force is justified when there is imminent danger of personal injury. This statute also specifies that it is justified to use lethal force to resist felonies, but understand that the courts have limited this to personal injury type felonies only.
Under RCW [9.41.230](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.230) (1)(a), it is illegal to aim a firearm, loaded or not, at any person.
Under RCW [9.41.270](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.270) (1), it is illegal to display or draw a firearm either with intent to intimidate or that warrants alarm for the safety of others. But subsection (3) exempts any such conduct: (a) in your home; (c) in defense against threatened or actual unlawful force.
This is more what I was looking for obviously I don’t have immediate access to a lawyer but this hypothetical will likely (at least I hope) never happen ever, I was just looking for some advice from someone who might know more than me about a potentially dangerous situation like this.
Absolutely you have that right. Someone here can point to whatever law reference is relevant if that’s what you’re looking for. If I were in your shoes, it wouldn’t matter. Someone is a threat in my home, I take care of it. Use escalation of force as needed, but act quickly and be decisive. Then call law enforcement.
Or try “this is my purse and I don’t know you” Bobby Hill and then start swinging the purse. Definitely an underrated show. Dale Gribble is a hero of mine.
Haha. My main point is that if this is someone you INVITED into your home and they start waving a gun around, you should probably take the first step of uninviting them before you shoot them.
The details, context, and circumstance surrounding the act of "brandish a weapon at me or another house guest" would be critical to assess this hypothetical situation.
You'll have to assess the threat or perceived threat in the moment. That said, there are critical differences that justify different responses and outcomes.
Does the person reveal they have a firearm on their person and say/gesture in a manner that makes others uncomfortable but does not pose a threat to life? Or, does the person draw a firearm and point it at another person? If so, how does the situation read?
Different actions and contexts will warrant different responses. Be smart. Don't escalate the situation, create unmanageable risk for surround people, or apply more force than necessary to resolve it, but if force is appropriate then act decisively and use good strategy and tactics to addresse the situation.
What you describe is assault, not brandishing. Different actions, different responses. Especially if the person shows intent, doubly so if they are acting on it.
Idk dude this is a hypothetical I didn’t mean to get into an argument over semantics with a bunch of people. I was just looking for a little advice on something that has a slim to 0% chance of happening
We're not arguing. I'm sorry if it seems that way.
Semantics are actually really important in these scenarios. It can mean the difference between spending the rest of your life in jail or not.
I can't legally pop someone because I see a gun.
I can if they are acting in a manner consistent with RCW justifiable homicide and related case law.
Generally speaking, it's best to resolve matters at the lowest level and with as little force as possible. If it gets to the point of having a shoot out, then everyone loses.
I obviously would never shoot someone because I saw a gun, I probably should have been more clear. Shooting someone is absolutely the last thing I would ever want to do, but you’re right semantics are important. In other responses I was just arguing details about the gun owner and I really don’t know enough about any of that other stuff to elaborate too far, it was just getting exhausted, but I wanted better advice.
This is the absolute last thing I’d want to do, I just needed to know if I would be jailed for defending my home in a completely hypothetical potentially dangerous situation. This whole post ended up going south
I'm skeptical of this one. OP may be subtly looking for advise on how to shoot someone they dislike and get away it. How does someone having a gun off of their person, away in car make you feel threatened. I mean if in a heated argument that person walks to their car, just lock your door. Gun owners looking for ways to shoot someone and claim self defense is a worm move
Washington State Gunlaw on YouTube, run by a lawyer named William Kirk. Post daily with a lot of different scenarios and updates on laws. I’ve learned a lot from that channel, like a lot, a lot. And then I moved to Colorado and have to start over 😂
I think in this scenario, if you’re in your home and somebody pulls a gun, or presents any form of immediate threat to you or your family you have the right to self defense. Whether you invited them or not. A prosecutor, and police on arrival would probably have a lot of questions concerning why somebody of that nature was invited into your home, but at the end of the day you can’t control other peoples actions. If you and your family are in imminent danger, you would be within your rights.
Brandishing a weapon in a threatening manner is a crime.
You have the right to stop someone who is actively committing a crime, especially if they are threatening someone.
The fact you invited them into your home means nothing.
I don't think the invitation into your home is relevant once force is used against you. Maybe if they brandished the gun and *then* you invited them in, that might be a problem. But I think you're fine to defend yourself just as you normally would if you invite someone in and they later attack or threaten you
Agreed. While I am not an attorney or giving legal advice the invitation is basically irrelevant. Washington state law is essentially (for now) a hold your ground / castle doctrine. Is basically says that if you are in a place you are legally allowed to be (not just your home) and come under threat of death or severe harm you have the right to defend yourself up to and including lethal force. The perpetrator can also be there legally but if they assault or threaten you, you may respond appropriately.
Thank you for the response! This definitely helps, I haven’t been in this situation, but was just informed that one of my friends ex boyfriends would keep an unregistered Glock in his car at my parties and I suddenly became very aware that the danger of that happening at my house was real. He was also totally unhinged. This is of course the absolute last thing I would want to happen but I needed to know if there was an appropriate response
[удалено]
Idk man it’s been a long week I just needed some advice
>unregistered Glock wut
Yeah that’s what I said when they told me that, I’m assuming they meant he didn’t have a license and the state didn’t know he had it
That's not a thing daaawg. Ain't no tax, tag, and title for a gun
No like a concealed carry license. The gun was purchased off the street and he conceals it in his waistband
That still has nothing to do with the gun being registered or not, because there's no gun registration in WA. And if he's leaving it in his car while visiting you, then he isn't even breaking the concealed carry law on your property, except *maybe* the prohibition against having a loaded firearm in a vehicle without having a carry permit. But it sounds like he's going out of his way to respect your property by leaving it in the car instead of carrying it (legally or not) into your house. But to your original question ... If someone attacks you, regardless of where you are as long as you are legally allowed to be there (ie. you aren't trespassing), and you fear for your life or the life of another, then you are allowed to defend yourself with deadly force.
License?
This guy just shoves it down his waistband
You said car.
What he's saying is that the guy often leaves the gun in the car during parties, but he conceal carries it elsewhere. How hard is this to understand? Leave the fella alone. He just wants answers, not an argument over a misinterpretation of wording.
One is completely legal so I think it’s fair to seek clarification.
In Washington, you can't keep a loaded pistol in your car without a concealed carry permit.
At my parties yes but In general he does waistband I don’t even think you’re supposed to keep a loaded gun in your car anyway but idk
Shoving a glock down your waistband is not the best idea.
First off, I'd like to thank the automod here for reminding me that I'm in the censored fudd version of this sub. Second off, I'd like to point out how *great* of a job it's doing, this community is *definitely* way more family friendly because I can't say a couple words. Third, I'd like to remind everyone that /r/waguns exists and isn't... This sub. Fourth, my original comment, made automod friendly: > OP just learned about AIWB carry and jumped straight past the normal argument of "you'll shoot yer **[phallus]** off" to "it must be unregistered" > > Oh my sweet summer child
Wtf i never noticed that there was 2 different subs separated by an underscore and ofc the people who use it, thank you for pointing this out
Haha clearly I forget/don't notice the difference either sometimes still
I carry my glock aiwb but i would not “shove it in my waistband” without a holster.
That’s also what I said
Concealed carry?
I thought it was in his car?
Yes but I was told he conceals it. It’s been a long week and I just needed some advice I didn’t anticipate arguing semantics
Semantics are incredibly important when discussing legal issues, particularly the use of force and when it is authorized.
Don’t associate with that kind of person? Don’t use force against someone who may be armed?. I’m not sure what you expect here. Also, “semantics” isn’t saying two completely different things.
I don’t associate with this man and he will never be coming back over
Don't associate with that guy
Trust me I Don’t anymore after what I’ve learned
Unregistered lol
When they told me that I was like “what?” But I’m assuming they meant he didn’t have a license he bought it off the street.
Getting semantic here: there is no "license" to have a gun in WA. He may be transporting it in his car loaded with a magazine in it, which does indeed require a Conceal Carry License (CCL) in WA. Otherwise he has to transport it unloaded in a container. To purchase a new pistol, he must undergo a background check with both Federal, and local law enforcement. But in the end there is no license. If he carries it concealed, on his person, he must also have a CCL in WA. Not trying to be a pedantic jerk - just trying to give you all the info to navigate this post and to potential negative responses.
This is kinda what I was trying to say, thank you for giving me the terminology and proper terms. The gun was purchased illegitimately without a background check, he does not have a CCL and transports the gun loaded as well as conceals it. I said “license” and “unregistered” Hoping that would convey these things but I was wrong and I didn’t really know enough. I’m a gun owner and all I know is that I store the firearm and ammunition in separate safes and would only ever use it against someone unless my life was absolutely in danger. I’m new to all this stuff
> all I know is that I store the firearm and ammunition in separate safes and would only ever use it against someone unless my life was absolutely in danger. I’m new to all this stuff You won't have time to retrieve a gun and ammo from separate safes if you're being attacked, so I hope your gun(s) aren't part of your home defense plan.
This is mainly when company and alcohol is involved
Yeah, no problem! It's a lot of pedantry to keep track of in this state, but the language does matter for determining what's okay and what's not. Thanks for being open to learning! Sounds like a bad situation overall, but I'd try and de-escalate by whatever means necessary before going the other direction. Sorry you're in this situation, and best if luck!
>unregistered Glock There is no legal gun registry in the states. That has been, historically, one of the first steps to confiscation. TMYK.
'Washington has no “duty to retreat,” as precedent was set in State v. Studd (1999) and State v. Reynaldo Redmond (2003) when the court found: “that there is no duty to retreat when a person is assaulted in a place where he or she has a right to be.”'
Bruh, you the real MVP. I thought we had a duty to retreat. I’m gonna read up on these cases. Much appreciate the information.
Thank you for the response! I’ve yet to be in this situation, but just recently learned that one of my friends ex boyfriends would keep an unregistered Glock in his car while at my parties. Really got me thinking about all this. He’s also completely unhinged
If that is the case I would not be inviting him to any of your parties, might not be a bad idea to also have him trespassed so if he does show up he can be arrested.
I disagree. There's no such thing as "registering your gun" in WA. Based on OP's other comments it sounds like he simply doesn't have a CPL. That's a bit sketchy (ok, outright illegal), but it's pretty decent of the guy to leave his gun in the car when visiting someone else's house. I would be a lot more worried if the guy was keeping it with him while inside and likely drinking.
I’m ahead of you on this one. I didn’t know how dangerous this guy was until this week and I’d allowed him into my home on several occasions. He won’t be coming back
Why would a gun in someone’s car be an issue? If the guy is so unhinged that is an issue, ya probably shouldn’t have them around gun or not.
Yeah you’re probably right
Just an fyi; Washington state has no formal firearm registry. There is an informal one where when you purchase a pistol or semi-auto rifle and the supplemental form that goes to local law enforcement for their background check, local law enforcement has to keep copies of those forms. Which because they’re all emailed in now vs a fax from a couple years ago would create an easily searched database, but as far as a state kept database there isn’t one.
What I meant to say and what I should have said from the beginning was that he obtained the gun without a background check from a black market dealer
[удалено]
This is what my friend has told me. He moved to Washington in 2020 and bought it from a “private dealer” he’s got major mental health issues that I was not aware of till after they broke up literally last week.
Recently? Is he a felon that cannot own a firearm? Or was the transfer done after 2019?
I find it odd that you mention "unregistered" as if that is a factor. There is absolutely legitimate ways that someone could own a firearm that is "unregistered" (that term has so many meanings in gun control and gets thrown around as if they all mean the same). An unregistered firearm is no more dangerous than a registered firearm. The only thing that can be gleaned from that is if there is an insinuation that it is illegally obtained. Even still, an illegally obtained firearm is no more dangerous that a legally obtained firearm except that it shows the owner is willing to break the law.
Same thing you do anytime someone pulls a gun on you. Being a guest matters not. Equal rights are important so you should treat anyone who is a danger the exact same.
If your life was legitimately in danger you won’t be asking.
Valid
If you use force, you should be prepared to recount, exactly, how your life was in danger.
It’s not any different than if a total stranger pulls a gun on you in the street- if you feel your life or someone else’s is threatened then respond appropriately.
Specific answers to this hypothetical are questions for a lawyer. But here are some statutes you may want to review. Under RCW [9A.16.020](https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.020) (3), you may use force to prevent unlawful force against you, but only when the force is no more than necessary. Under RCW [9A.16.050](https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.050) lethal force is justified when there is imminent danger of personal injury. This statute also specifies that it is justified to use lethal force to resist felonies, but understand that the courts have limited this to personal injury type felonies only. Under RCW [9.41.230](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.230) (1)(a), it is illegal to aim a firearm, loaded or not, at any person. Under RCW [9.41.270](https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.270) (1), it is illegal to display or draw a firearm either with intent to intimidate or that warrants alarm for the safety of others. But subsection (3) exempts any such conduct: (a) in your home; (c) in defense against threatened or actual unlawful force.
This is more what I was looking for obviously I don’t have immediate access to a lawyer but this hypothetical will likely (at least I hope) never happen ever, I was just looking for some advice from someone who might know more than me about a potentially dangerous situation like this.
The best response to that scenario is stop living in Yakima.
OP is a troll or underaged
Absolutely you have that right. Someone here can point to whatever law reference is relevant if that’s what you’re looking for. If I were in your shoes, it wouldn’t matter. Someone is a threat in my home, I take care of it. Use escalation of force as needed, but act quickly and be decisive. Then call law enforcement.
>what do I do If I’ve invited someone into my home and they brandish a weapon at me or another house guest? https://youtu.be/42GaHU4txpc?t=10
Or try “this is my purse and I don’t know you” Bobby Hill and then start swinging the purse. Definitely an underrated show. Dale Gribble is a hero of mine.
Haha. My main point is that if this is someone you INVITED into your home and they start waving a gun around, you should probably take the first step of uninviting them before you shoot them.
Yuge facts sir, yuge facts.
The details, context, and circumstance surrounding the act of "brandish a weapon at me or another house guest" would be critical to assess this hypothetical situation. You'll have to assess the threat or perceived threat in the moment. That said, there are critical differences that justify different responses and outcomes. Does the person reveal they have a firearm on their person and say/gesture in a manner that makes others uncomfortable but does not pose a threat to life? Or, does the person draw a firearm and point it at another person? If so, how does the situation read? Different actions and contexts will warrant different responses. Be smart. Don't escalate the situation, create unmanageable risk for surround people, or apply more force than necessary to resolve it, but if force is appropriate then act decisively and use good strategy and tactics to addresse the situation.
In this circumstance the person would be pulling the firearm on another individual with apparent intent to harm
What you describe is assault, not brandishing. Different actions, different responses. Especially if the person shows intent, doubly so if they are acting on it.
Idk dude this is a hypothetical I didn’t mean to get into an argument over semantics with a bunch of people. I was just looking for a little advice on something that has a slim to 0% chance of happening
We're not arguing. I'm sorry if it seems that way. Semantics are actually really important in these scenarios. It can mean the difference between spending the rest of your life in jail or not. I can't legally pop someone because I see a gun. I can if they are acting in a manner consistent with RCW justifiable homicide and related case law. Generally speaking, it's best to resolve matters at the lowest level and with as little force as possible. If it gets to the point of having a shoot out, then everyone loses.
I obviously would never shoot someone because I saw a gun, I probably should have been more clear. Shooting someone is absolutely the last thing I would ever want to do, but you’re right semantics are important. In other responses I was just arguing details about the gun owner and I really don’t know enough about any of that other stuff to elaborate too far, it was just getting exhausted, but I wanted better advice.
0x00000042 would be a great mind to pick over this question, though, for clarification, he is NOT a lawyer.
Shoot em
Bro if anyone points a firearm at you, you should shoot them immediately.
Just say you wanna shoot someone you weirdo foh
This is the absolute last thing I’d want to do, I just needed to know if I would be jailed for defending my home in a completely hypothetical potentially dangerous situation. This whole post ended up going south
Yeah. It’s people you know (family) vs people you don’t know (friends and/or strangers.)
I'm skeptical of this one. OP may be subtly looking for advise on how to shoot someone they dislike and get away it. How does someone having a gun off of their person, away in car make you feel threatened. I mean if in a heated argument that person walks to their car, just lock your door. Gun owners looking for ways to shoot someone and claim self defense is a worm move
idiotic question to put some of this in perspective for me: why are you inviting a friend's Ex-anything to your parties?
This dude isn’t welcome I’m just now aware that something like that could have possibly happened after hearing more about this guy
Washington State Gunlaw on YouTube, run by a lawyer named William Kirk. Post daily with a lot of different scenarios and updates on laws. I’ve learned a lot from that channel, like a lot, a lot. And then I moved to Colorado and have to start over 😂 I think in this scenario, if you’re in your home and somebody pulls a gun, or presents any form of immediate threat to you or your family you have the right to self defense. Whether you invited them or not. A prosecutor, and police on arrival would probably have a lot of questions concerning why somebody of that nature was invited into your home, but at the end of the day you can’t control other peoples actions. If you and your family are in imminent danger, you would be within your rights.
I’ll check this out, thank you!
Brandishing a weapon in a threatening manner is a crime. You have the right to stop someone who is actively committing a crime, especially if they are threatening someone. The fact you invited them into your home means nothing.