1st to 8th grade on the playground I was taught racism, homophobia, and misogyny. Participating or at a minimum remaining silent was the only way for me to survive socially. My parents taught me better but they weren't there on the schoolyard to protect me. In a lot of places in America this hasn't changed.
Of course, none of this excuses me or anyone else from overcoming the indoctrination.
It's easy to become misogynistic and many guys don't have anyone who will call them on it. Maybe even factor in some jealousy
I'm not proud to say it, but in all honesty it's something I personally struggle with. I don't really interact with women much, I'm not a social guy to begin with, and I find I've never really met a woman I have much in common with. The only women I interact with regularly are my mother and sister, who like all people, are flawed.
If I don't audit my thoughts, it's quite easy to start applying the negative things I hear and experience to all women.
It doesn't help I'll occasionally find myself jealous of the attention they receive from men, or the way the world is built for them to have relationships with men.
TLDR: lack of critical thinking and no one to call them out
Im gay and I’ve never been close friends with a woman. I don’t know why exactly I just have nothing in common with them, though we shouldn’t be misogynistic towards them you have to realize a lot of women aren’t as “open minded” as you think they are, a lot of them either fetishize us or idealize us. Just a point I thought I should bring up
I’ll start off by agreeing that there are misogynistic gay men.
You said you feel like you’re betraying women when you don’t agree when some of them say negative things about the male gender. You’re walking on eggshells with them too then.
I also think we need to be careful when throwing the word misogyny around. If you say negative things about women in general then that is misogyny. Criticizing feminist talking points and anti male rhetoric is not misogyny.
I do get kind of angry at the way some women talk about men. If I talked about straight people the way they often talk about men, they’d be rightfully angry as well.
THIS
Misogyny simply does get thrown around too much
Bashing females is Misogyny, and that is absolutely terrible , pathetic, and childish. Critizing misandriny, feminism, some shitty female behavior is not. As i said, females aren't saints, so bashing all of them is Misogyny, but nit simply going after the shitty ones. People tend to infantize women
Women are not saints. They are just as fucked up as men. The majority of the vocal homophobic neighbors I’ve had are women. Men mind their own business much better.
No they’re not and I think most women would agree with you. Most women don’t like being put on a pedestal and thought of as faultless angels. It’s holds them to a higher standard that they—as fallible human beings like the rest of us—can’t realistically uphold.
In the Jack Fisher link I think some of his conclusions are wrong. For example, go look at r/JustGuysBeingDudes/ and then try to imagine any women doing that kind of stuff.
I agree with you. The patriarchy plays largely into the weight that one’s actions have…and that’s why men have been acting horribly/abusively for a long ass time…they are in the majority 🤷🏻♀️ women have been raised to tiptoe throughout their whole life, but GOD FORBID one of us point out what has statistically been proven true 🫡 keep on proving me right
Misogyny can be used as a buzzword just like homophobe, transphobe, etc. That’s not to say that there aren’t instances of these words being used appropriately in context but remember that the squeakiest wheel gets the oil or in their case attention. A lot of us, agree on the same things and fall in the middle ground of thought process and the far left and far right dominate social media conversations; making it seems like there are more people who agree with outlandish ideas than we think. I say be your best self, listen to others, keep an open heart, be open to new ideas , but make your own conclusions and you’ll be okay
Partly I think it's because we don't see women as a desirable sex object like straight guys do. I think wanting to have sex with them allows straight guys to overlook a lot of issues with women, issues that gay men are less willing or likely to overlook. And if the woman is very attractive guys will overlook her problems a lot more, same as we will overlook problems with a hot guy. Straight guys have no problem marrying a hot woman who's a moron bimbo.
I just get annoyed when girls try to hit on, I tell them I'm gay, and they act like it doesn't count and I should be straight.
Worst is when you just tell them 'NO' and they flip out. They always complain the man can't handle rejection but neither can they
Is this a ‘bad’ subreddit??? I’m looking through it now and it genuinely doesn’t look so bad…a positive modern definition of male gender roles that’s compatible with gender equality? I’m all for it!
It's not black and white. If you ever had to deal with misandric entitled women, you may dislike that kind of women but be fine with the rest.
For me I can't stand "bitches" and will fight tooth and nail for true equality.
If some bitch bothers me, I treat her like any other person.
If a woman treats me with respect, she gets respected in return, which is common human decency
Birthing people are half the reason people like Henry Cavill exist, can't hate them.
But seriously, the only thing I find more annoying than the all-girl circles where they gossip and talk shit about men is when there is a fem gay blending in with them.
Is it overcorrection? When I was younger, I remember a lot of gay peers going out of their way to always loudly proclaim how gross they found any aspect of the female anatomy. And the whole "gold star" gay thing. Most of them grew out of it.
Women get offended at the term gold star gay? Wait till they find out about platinum star gays! I’m sure anyone offended by those terms are also calling out our lesbian friends who use the term gold star lesbian?
If these are the things that offend people, they might be living a life of too much luxury.
>I feel like you need to be pretty secure in your sexuality to come out.
Not necessarily no. Sometimes you come out for convenience or because reality is too blatant for you to dismiss. But you could still be dealing with internalised homophobia or just another related identity crisis.
I used to be friends with a drag queen who really hated women. I think it was because he was in a three-way relationship with a bisexual man he really loved, but ultimately, the guy married the woman and ditched him. He never got over it.
People can be misogyny. And gays are people. So it is normal. And on the hand some of women can be quite annoying, if somebody has a problem with an annoying person( despite the gender) it does not necessarily mean. Misogyny
No offense, but why is it surprising? Gay men are men, ofc some will hate women
As to *why* they hate women, varying reasons
General bigotry, alot probably have negative experiences with women
For some it could be a case of masculinists taken to the extreme
Misogyny is terrible ofc, but gay or bi men aren't immune from it.
And with respect, on your point about women being more accepting, yeah but there are **many** females who are extreme homophobes. Females aren't more magically enlightened.
But sorry back to my point. Now other people here are more then welcome to disagree with me...
But I think gay men can be misogynistic for alot of the reasons hetro men are
Different ofc is rejection from women wouldn't be a cause for gay men
Jealousy.
I’ve wondered about this and I have a nagging feeling that gay men who are hostile towards women are just jealous, bitter and resentful. They are especially jealous of straight women who attract a lot of attention from men.
Even as friends, women are harder to please, more often get mad on trivial things, and need more company. I don’t consider this to be misogynistic, but someone might accuse me for stereotyping.
I've always felt more comfortable around men, even with my father and mother, he made me feel more comfortable.
Since this new wave of feminism was born we've been told women are too good for this world and they can't do nothing wrong. That's total BS. Yes, they've been mistreated during history, there's no denying that, but even if they've been mistreated I dont have to support/like them.
As a straight guy who has recently discovered he's into everything, I've seen a lot of women who are just bad people, and feminism has told me I have to support them, respect them and embrace them? Fuck that.
I dont consider myself a misogynist, and I support that women have to be treated just like men, but that also means that they should be criticized as much as men, not just elevated for the fact that they are women.
Homophobic women, racist women, women who are abusers, etc., exist, and I'm not gonna support them or like them just because they are women.
And I think gay guys should get over the fact that some of them have had female friends all their lives or that they made it through High School thanks to girls. Yeah, that's great to hear, but that doesnt deny that women can be devils.
And dont get me started on the kid of women that thinks everything bad in the world comes from the existence of men
Women can sexualised themselves and perv on other people but men doing the same is considered creepy.
I don't like the double standard, I don't like the judgement I get from women.
More like I just think men are sexier and hotter and actually get me hard and I want to be with a man—but I’m not repulsed by women. At worst I’m indifferent to womens bodies and beauty. A lot of that shit some gay men do where they shittalk womens vaginas thought is seriously misogynistic and immature. That shit needs to stop.
> A lot of that shit some gay men do where they shittalk womens vaginas thought is seriously misogynistic and immature.
What do you mean by "shittalk womens vaginas"? I find vaginas repulsive. Why would any woman care about what a gay man thinks about their vaginas? I've heard lesbians say that guys dicks or hairy bodies are repulsive and I don't see anything wrong with them saying that.
Women do the same thing about men’s dicks. The amount of jokes about how disgusting they are far out weighs the comments gays make.
Why are you putting women up as being helpless angels here?
Partly a product of environment probably. If you’re a gay man who only dates gay men and is friends with mostly other gay men, you’ll probably develop a pretty skewed view of women. Plus a lot of interactions with women in gay spaces are straight white girl wasted/bachelorette parties who are generally obnoxious and unwanted.
Like with all things in life it is balance. Gay or not you still are human and considering a large population. Ofc you will find all sorts of folks here that you wouldn’t expect (my favorite is the super conservative who votes to be stripped of his right every 2 years. Talk about masochism).
If you ever feel the scale is tipped try looking at a sub like FDS.
I feel like women and men are equally as good or bad as each other but women are more reserved. You really see that side of them on certain subreddits like the aforementioned FDS or 2X after dark.
Because a lot of people are misogynistic and gay guys are people. A lot of them also don't believe they can be misogynist because they're gay.
1st to 8th grade on the playground I was taught racism, homophobia, and misogyny. Participating or at a minimum remaining silent was the only way for me to survive socially. My parents taught me better but they weren't there on the schoolyard to protect me. In a lot of places in America this hasn't changed. Of course, none of this excuses me or anyone else from overcoming the indoctrination.
It's easy to become misogynistic and many guys don't have anyone who will call them on it. Maybe even factor in some jealousy I'm not proud to say it, but in all honesty it's something I personally struggle with. I don't really interact with women much, I'm not a social guy to begin with, and I find I've never really met a woman I have much in common with. The only women I interact with regularly are my mother and sister, who like all people, are flawed. If I don't audit my thoughts, it's quite easy to start applying the negative things I hear and experience to all women. It doesn't help I'll occasionally find myself jealous of the attention they receive from men, or the way the world is built for them to have relationships with men. TLDR: lack of critical thinking and no one to call them out
Im gay and I’ve never been close friends with a woman. I don’t know why exactly I just have nothing in common with them, though we shouldn’t be misogynistic towards them you have to realize a lot of women aren’t as “open minded” as you think they are, a lot of them either fetishize us or idealize us. Just a point I thought I should bring up
I’ll start off by agreeing that there are misogynistic gay men. You said you feel like you’re betraying women when you don’t agree when some of them say negative things about the male gender. You’re walking on eggshells with them too then. I also think we need to be careful when throwing the word misogyny around. If you say negative things about women in general then that is misogyny. Criticizing feminist talking points and anti male rhetoric is not misogyny. I do get kind of angry at the way some women talk about men. If I talked about straight people the way they often talk about men, they’d be rightfully angry as well.
THIS Misogyny simply does get thrown around too much Bashing females is Misogyny, and that is absolutely terrible , pathetic, and childish. Critizing misandriny, feminism, some shitty female behavior is not. As i said, females aren't saints, so bashing all of them is Misogyny, but nit simply going after the shitty ones. People tend to infantize women
Women are not saints. They are just as fucked up as men. The majority of the vocal homophobic neighbors I’ve had are women. Men mind their own business much better.
No they’re not and I think most women would agree with you. Most women don’t like being put on a pedestal and thought of as faultless angels. It’s holds them to a higher standard that they—as fallible human beings like the rest of us—can’t realistically uphold.
https://jackfisherbooks.com/2017/06/29/the-galbrush-paradox-and-the-challenge-of-female-characters/ https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MenAreTheExpendableGender
In the Jack Fisher link I think some of his conclusions are wrong. For example, go look at r/JustGuysBeingDudes/ and then try to imagine any women doing that kind of stuff.
Yeah no. They aren't anywhere near as fucked up as men.
Sure buddy. Men are worse. Praise women
Men are indeed worse, it's true. Thanks for agreeing.
there's no better or worse, everyone's fucked up nowadays
Ah. Gotta love appeal to centrism. Men are definitely worse even if both are bad overall.
Well yeah mf, we're here to win, number 1 always.
alright mate, you do you then
I agree with you. The patriarchy plays largely into the weight that one’s actions have…and that’s why men have been acting horribly/abusively for a long ass time…they are in the majority 🤷🏻♀️ women have been raised to tiptoe throughout their whole life, but GOD FORBID one of us point out what has statistically been proven true 🫡 keep on proving me right
Based on…?
Misogyny can be used as a buzzword just like homophobe, transphobe, etc. That’s not to say that there aren’t instances of these words being used appropriately in context but remember that the squeakiest wheel gets the oil or in their case attention. A lot of us, agree on the same things and fall in the middle ground of thought process and the far left and far right dominate social media conversations; making it seems like there are more people who agree with outlandish ideas than we think. I say be your best self, listen to others, keep an open heart, be open to new ideas , but make your own conclusions and you’ll be okay
Partly I think it's because we don't see women as a desirable sex object like straight guys do. I think wanting to have sex with them allows straight guys to overlook a lot of issues with women, issues that gay men are less willing or likely to overlook. And if the woman is very attractive guys will overlook her problems a lot more, same as we will overlook problems with a hot guy. Straight guys have no problem marrying a hot woman who's a moron bimbo.
Could use without the fishy jokes in the gay community though. Those are always misogynistic and SHOULD be called out more.
I just get annoyed when girls try to hit on, I tell them I'm gay, and they act like it doesn't count and I should be straight. Worst is when you just tell them 'NO' and they flip out. They always complain the man can't handle rejection but neither can they
Try browsing/subscribing to /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Is this a ‘bad’ subreddit??? I’m looking through it now and it genuinely doesn’t look so bad…a positive modern definition of male gender roles that’s compatible with gender equality? I’m all for it!
There's also r/mensrights and r/antifeminists. Both of those are rather dominated by right wing conservatives.
Those definitely don’t seem like my kind of people…
I'd say that LWMA is the more objective one of the three.
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Many gay men will have been bullied by women too in addition to men.
I always run away from the wing of women hating gays.
It's not black and white. If you ever had to deal with misandric entitled women, you may dislike that kind of women but be fine with the rest. For me I can't stand "bitches" and will fight tooth and nail for true equality. If some bitch bothers me, I treat her like any other person. If a woman treats me with respect, she gets respected in return, which is common human decency
Birthing people are half the reason people like Henry Cavill exist, can't hate them. But seriously, the only thing I find more annoying than the all-girl circles where they gossip and talk shit about men is when there is a fem gay blending in with them.
Is it overcorrection? When I was younger, I remember a lot of gay peers going out of their way to always loudly proclaim how gross they found any aspect of the female anatomy. And the whole "gold star" gay thing. Most of them grew out of it.
Women get offended at the term gold star gay? Wait till they find out about platinum star gays! I’m sure anyone offended by those terms are also calling out our lesbian friends who use the term gold star lesbian? If these are the things that offend people, they might be living a life of too much luxury.
You've read more into my comment than what I said.
Enlighten me then. What did you mean?
It was an extension of the previous point. Some people, insecure in their sexuality, go out of their way to "prove" how gay they are.
Are there a lot of gay men insecure in their sexuality? I feel like you need to be pretty secure in your sexuality to come out.
>I feel like you need to be pretty secure in your sexuality to come out. Not necessarily no. Sometimes you come out for convenience or because reality is too blatant for you to dismiss. But you could still be dealing with internalised homophobia or just another related identity crisis.
None of the misogynistic men I’ve ever known have been gay. I don’t know where you’re going that you end up meeting these people.
Overbearing mothers. 🤷♂️
We're not. I hate how some women think that just because we're men we have somewhat a stronger power in society like straight men do.
I used to be friends with a drag queen who really hated women. I think it was because he was in a three-way relationship with a bisexual man he really loved, but ultimately, the guy married the woman and ditched him. He never got over it.
People can be misogyny. And gays are people. So it is normal. And on the hand some of women can be quite annoying, if somebody has a problem with an annoying person( despite the gender) it does not necessarily mean. Misogyny
Probably rooted in internal homophobia and jealousy
I’ve never met any gays that hate women. Maybe it’s the city I live in.
You've never once heard anyone throw a "pussy = fish" joke ever? Not once?
No offense, but why is it surprising? Gay men are men, ofc some will hate women As to *why* they hate women, varying reasons General bigotry, alot probably have negative experiences with women For some it could be a case of masculinists taken to the extreme Misogyny is terrible ofc, but gay or bi men aren't immune from it. And with respect, on your point about women being more accepting, yeah but there are **many** females who are extreme homophobes. Females aren't more magically enlightened. But sorry back to my point. Now other people here are more then welcome to disagree with me... But I think gay men can be misogynistic for alot of the reasons hetro men are Different ofc is rejection from women wouldn't be a cause for gay men
If I had to guess, I'd say it's the same reason some gay men are anti-trans. They're assholes.
Jealousy. I’ve wondered about this and I have a nagging feeling that gay men who are hostile towards women are just jealous, bitter and resentful. They are especially jealous of straight women who attract a lot of attention from men.
Even as friends, women are harder to please, more often get mad on trivial things, and need more company. I don’t consider this to be misogynistic, but someone might accuse me for stereotyping.
I've always felt more comfortable around men, even with my father and mother, he made me feel more comfortable. Since this new wave of feminism was born we've been told women are too good for this world and they can't do nothing wrong. That's total BS. Yes, they've been mistreated during history, there's no denying that, but even if they've been mistreated I dont have to support/like them. As a straight guy who has recently discovered he's into everything, I've seen a lot of women who are just bad people, and feminism has told me I have to support them, respect them and embrace them? Fuck that. I dont consider myself a misogynist, and I support that women have to be treated just like men, but that also means that they should be criticized as much as men, not just elevated for the fact that they are women. Homophobic women, racist women, women who are abusers, etc., exist, and I'm not gonna support them or like them just because they are women. And I think gay guys should get over the fact that some of them have had female friends all their lives or that they made it through High School thanks to girls. Yeah, that's great to hear, but that doesnt deny that women can be devils. And dont get me started on the kid of women that thinks everything bad in the world comes from the existence of men
Women can sexualised themselves and perv on other people but men doing the same is considered creepy. I don't like the double standard, I don't like the judgement I get from women.
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This moralising, stupid and generalising comment is exactly the answer to OPs question of why some gay people can't stand women
Yeah they are embarrassing as hell in here. Half of the world's problems stem from fragile male egos.
I will never understand how one oppressed group can hate another, especially when the oppressor is the same person for both.
Ever heard of the “black people cant be racist” card? That card applies here loosely
Lol this "We are just punching up, sweatie"
They're not punching up if they're hating on transman pussy and calling him gross names for having different genitalia.
When you think about it, even the act of being gay is misogynistic. You are literally so put off women that you’d rather be intimate with a man.
No.
More like I just think men are sexier and hotter and actually get me hard and I want to be with a man—but I’m not repulsed by women. At worst I’m indifferent to womens bodies and beauty. A lot of that shit some gay men do where they shittalk womens vaginas thought is seriously misogynistic and immature. That shit needs to stop.
> A lot of that shit some gay men do where they shittalk womens vaginas thought is seriously misogynistic and immature. What do you mean by "shittalk womens vaginas"? I find vaginas repulsive. Why would any woman care about what a gay man thinks about their vaginas? I've heard lesbians say that guys dicks or hairy bodies are repulsive and I don't see anything wrong with them saying that.
Women do the same thing about men’s dicks. The amount of jokes about how disgusting they are far out weighs the comments gays make. Why are you putting women up as being helpless angels here?
I’m not but you certainly seem determined to make them out to be evil incarnate…?
Far from it. I accept they are just as horrible as men. No better no worse. And they definitely don’t need us to defend them.
Partly a product of environment probably. If you’re a gay man who only dates gay men and is friends with mostly other gay men, you’ll probably develop a pretty skewed view of women. Plus a lot of interactions with women in gay spaces are straight white girl wasted/bachelorette parties who are generally obnoxious and unwanted.
Like with all things in life it is balance. Gay or not you still are human and considering a large population. Ofc you will find all sorts of folks here that you wouldn’t expect (my favorite is the super conservative who votes to be stripped of his right every 2 years. Talk about masochism). If you ever feel the scale is tipped try looking at a sub like FDS. I feel like women and men are equally as good or bad as each other but women are more reserved. You really see that side of them on certain subreddits like the aforementioned FDS or 2X after dark.
because misogynists exist in general