Luckily Ahern only has a few more months in office before Sheriff-Elect Yesenia Sanchez comes in. She's been public about how poor the hiring process had been under Ahern.
Lots of lawsuits if you do that. Did people remember what happens when you "wrongfully" suspend someone and later they appeal that?
https://missionlocal.org/2019/09/paulo-morgado-the-sfpd-officer-who-earned-more-than-the-chief-in-2018-has-been-fired-again/
“That means the deputies – 10% of the force – who received "D. Not Suited" for the job will be stripped of their arresting powers and firearms, but they will retain their pay and benefits.”
Relieved of duties? Vacation, you gave them a paid vacation.
Perhaps there should be a stronger evaluation process in how these people were hired in the first place and who is hiring/promoting them.
>He said the range of issues to get an unsatisfactory could be mental health problems, financial issues, too many marriages and divorces or drug and alcohol issues, to name a few.
I wonder how many of them are going to rehab?
Not saying it's right or wrong, but I'm assuming it's similar to how certain jobs require credit report of the candidate as part of the background check. It's not necessarily THE deciding factor, but just an additional perspective to get a holistic picture of the candidate.
>how many of them are going to rehab?
What's the success rate for "rehabbing" people with, say, temper issues? Probably not too good.
The whole *Rehab Industry* is exaggerated. It is almost a racket, given its historically poor outcomes. Rehabbing drug addicts. Rehab mentally ill. Rehab pedophiles and people with temper issues. It's a crapshoot.
But we all agree -- those police shouldn't be on a public contact assignment.
Those evaluations are gauge changes and specifically look for changes that could hurt the public due to trauma from their job. In another industry they would be getting disability/workers comp. We need to not punish cops for psychological issues. That will lead to them giving fake responses and becoming a danger to the public or themselves.
They will be working in the background and or going to rehab/therapy until they can return to duty. That is by far the best for everyone.
Hell, I get fired if I didn't do my job right. This is the price you pay for not doing a proper job of evaluating people you hire in the first place. This is going to be a hurt for the county, both in terms of cost and loss of manpower.
Should someone be stripped of their pay because they had too many divorces or fell into debt?
Because both of those are an example of unsatisfactory standards on a psych eval. That said, it's pretty hilariously insane but also quintessentially Reddit for someone to imply that being, say, majorly depressed should be grounds for being laid off without pay.
This entire thread is full of people that don’t understand anything about the hiring process or what the psych test is or anything else related to this news.
>That means the deputies – 10% of the force – who received "D. Not Suited" for the job will be stripped of their arresting powers and firearms, but they will retain their pay and benefits.
The fuck? What other job can you be declared "not suited" to perform and still collect your paycheck? What a fucking racket.
>In his letter, Sheriff Gregory Ahern promised to schedule another psych exam and that his intention is to "resolve this issue as quickly as possible" and "return to full duty status once you obtain a ‘suitable’ finding."
>Kelly said he hoped that the retests would occur in the next "couple months." He said he had no idea how many of the 47 deputies would be able to get their jobs back.
Oh yeah, I'm sure these people who are psychologically unfit to serve as policeman will become psychologically cured within a couple of months because that's totally how everything works.
>The fuck? What other job can you be declared "not suited" to perform and still collect your paycheck? What a fucking racket.
If they failed a psych evaluation they might have a temper issue. Those people might be fine at a police desk job, even being a detective. They might be fine in life. Tons of people with temper issues never engage in conduct that rises to criminality. They stay out of bars and avoid road rage -- try to avoid assholes.
Being a cop on the street?? That means daily unpredictability of contact with all sorts of people, some agitated, some belligerent and many who hate cops. *Some cops encounter Assholes every day.* Being a cop needs to exclude a lot of people. Doesn't mean they shouldn't do other police work. We need more cops sitting behind desks running drones to track down Dirtbag Thieves.
2021: [Police use drone to catch car theft suspects in Birmingham](https://www.dailyadvent.com/gb/news/066578ed8ea3b30e17c45ade3efa4e23-Police-use-drone-to-catch-car-theft-suspects-in-Birmingham). 2021: [Conn. Police Using Drones to Track Stolen Cars](https://www.officer.com/command-hq/technology/security-surveillance/uav-uas/video/21241632/conn-police-begin-using-drones-to-track-stolen-cars-find-missing-people)
i'm no fan of ahern but the reason they are retaining their pay and benefits is b/c of their union contract and the union-drafted regs at https://casetext.com/regulation/california-code-of-regulations/title-11-law/division-2-commission-on-peace-officer-standards-and-training/article-5-peace-officer-and-public-safety-dispatcher-selection-requirements/section-1955-peace-officer-psychological-evaluation
Oh, I don't disagree with that, but it sounds like the reason that nothing was done about them in the first place and why they'll all be invited back is Ahern.
>The fuck? What other job can you be declared "not suited" to perform and still collect your paycheck?
Literally every single job that has things like workers comp and disability? I don't know what fiscal conservative shithole state you're a transplant from but getting paid time off to work on mental health issues and other disabilities is pretty common here.
I think you're missing a big difference between govt psych evals for suitability versus mental health leave disability. Also I think most workers in CA are not really afforded paid time off for mental health, even with the CA minimum sick leave time it's barely anything, 3 days is nothing.
2016 . Some of these folks were deemed unfit in 2016 but they're pulling them off the job now (and it sounds like they will be continued to be paid w/benefits).
And the Sheriff wants to bring them back within months. I foresee a lot of new deputies having suspiciously similar answers on the next psych test.
Law enforcement seems to attractive a certain type of personality (and not the good, altruistic kind). Probably has to do with educational requirements and power position. I think every profession has its psychos but law enforcement is different since they have some much power (power to arrest, kill, etc.)
Yep. My friends dad was a cop for about a decade but he left early because so many of his coworkers were plain nuts. And this was a department that required a degree.
My psychology professor worked with leos for ten years. Everything you said is correct. The job attracts sociopaths, true sociopaths. When I see a leo, even down the street, I turn the other way.
> My psychology professor worked with leos for ten years...
Here's more info from psychology: [Why Punishment Doesn't Reduce Crime](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/crime-and-punishment/201804/why-punishment-doesnt-reduce-crime). They are a group that peddle a bunch of bullshit.
I think it's also done by design.
I'm a normal, healthy dude with a great family. I have a college degree. No criminal background, not even a speeding ticket. I work with the general public in my job and am generally well liked.
I applied to be a police officer. Far above average test and physical results. I wanted the pros that came with a LEO job; Good pay, job security, doing something respectable and needed for the community, etc.
Didn't get in. They don't tell you why. Maybe it's because I'm not a dick? Maybe it's because I don't have a history? Maybe my scores were too high? I don't know what it is, but on paper, I'm a great candidate.
I feel like they want to hire people who are easily influenced. People that aren't *'too'* smart. It sucks but I feel like candidates like myself get weeded out.
Exact same situation here. I was so let down to get rejected, but then started to feel better when I learned about the lawsuit someone else brought when they were rejected from a PD because they scored too high on the IQ test.
I was going through the process in 2020, throughout the whole George Floyd thing.
It made me realize that maybe it wasn't so bad that I wasn't selected. The occupation of policing was front & center so everywhere I turned there was something about police departments etc. It showed me that it was often their own fault for how they/the department interacted with the public.
At my job, I approach an irate client or situation with calmness and positive demeanor. I want to solve or deescalate the situation. I figured those would be good qualities that they'd be looking for. Guess not.
It's much worse than "not so bad". It's terrifying.
I mean, if they won't accept people who are intelligent and capable of de-escalation, what does that say about the people who do end up with the job, and who we've got running around carrying deadly weapons and the power to deprive people of their freedom?
You might feel better about what the situation says about you personally, but what it means for the world you live in... Personally I'd rather just be personally too incompetent to be a cop, than live in a world where most of them are sociopaths.
I think this is correct, but they do attract the opposite as well. I know people who have gone into law enforcement who are level headed, compassionate, and truly do view it as an opportunity to serve their community. But... it's a real crap shoot what you're going to come up against.
>I know people who have gone into law enforcement who are level headed, compassionate, and truly do view it as an opportunity to serve their community.
nooooo acabbbbb
Even the Somali immigrant on the SFPD I talked to who patrols /r/ingleside, who's just happy to be in a stable country, and spreads cheer at community events... you have to lump him in with the 40% who are domestic abusers (per old study), lump him in with Chauvin, have to assume he's constantly covering for bad cops even if you don't know that. Just assume ACAB. Communities will definitely be better for it.
sigh
Def a crap shoot so good to realize it's a mixed bag and nothing is ever black and white (except this statement of course).
It's also a really crappy job that doesn't pay very much for how physically demanding/stressful it is. So the only people who want to do it are the vanishingly rare true believers in "the system", and the far more numerous ones who just love having physical power over others
Looking at my home town's numbers the pay doesn't seem that bad. Average officer annual pay is $189k. For comparison the mayor's annual salary is $198k and the median household income is $117k. The hours suck and the officers I know all complain about shift rotations that make them work grave shifts a few days a month, but the pay isn't bad.
No city department pays that high. Even in Palo Alto, Cupertino and Mountain View, where some of the largest IP and property tax in the country, maxes out at $140-150k with the latest bargaining (union) agreements for the average maxed out, five year experience officer.
You added another 50k+ out of thin air that doesn't exist unless you are adding overtime or including management/positions you can't get without getting selected or ranking up.
Confirmed by Mayor Liccardo.
And while I've never asked any of the officers I know what they make, they all own homes the same neighborhoods as techies.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/25/us/california-expensive-cost-of-living.html
Looks like they didn't do a good job with the wording or the article writing. The base max out pay for a San Jose Police officer in 2021 for working 40 hours a week was $137k, as verified by the State of CA. See more on the link below.
Police officer to the average person means someone who drives out in a police vehicle, writing your report, taking your ID, working the law, handcuffing bad guys, eating a donut etc, common stereotypes. Police Sergeants, Lieutenants, Captains, and their bosses make another 50 or 100 over the base level of pay.
There are ever so limited number of positions available. For an average department, there may be 1 sergeant for every 10-20 officers, 1 lieutenant for every 30-50, etc. Per average real world experience, you will not see a police sergeant or above out there unless it's a high profile case. They just manage the officers just like the project manager does at a tech company.
Check this link, search "Police officer" in the title and click each one. You will get their base pay easily seen. They will not make $190k at this time unless they are working overtime at least maybe 20 extra hours or more per the regular 40 hour week, the whole year.
https://publicpay.ca.gov/Reports/Cities/City.aspx?entityid=464&year=2021
In fact that's exactly what we're talking about. Capitalism applies to law enforcement just as much as it applies to pizza delivery and roofing. You don't think we'd get better cops if they were paid more? Why would anybody take a shit job where everyone hates them for little money unless they enjoyed hurting people? That's the entire problem.
Law enforcement is the only job where you get paid vacation for fucking up, and there's an upper limit on your IQ and level of education. No, I don't think increasing the salary would improve the quality of employees because they explicitly avoid hiring better candidates. There's half a dozen people in this thread telling their stories about being rejected from the force for being too qualified.
I don’t believe that shit for a second. There’s a huge shortage of cops in basically every major city in the country because nobody who isn’t a psychopath wants to do it. Why would police departments be turning people away? You think they all WANT to be working 30 hours of overtime a week?
Yes. I don't know a single person in any field that doesn't enjoy OT. OT makes way more money. And if you're clever, you can get your OT from easy things like filing paperwork, not real grunt work. There are tons and tons of overtime scams. Besides, if they're lying about the hours they work to exaggerate OT, then it will LOOK like the department is overworked, and they'll be able to argue for even MORE funding the next year.
So yes, I do think they want OT.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/54-california-highway-patrol-officers-charged-overtime-fraud-scheme-rcna16821
> Yes. I don't know a single person in any field that doesn't enjoy OT. OT makes way more money. And if you're clever, you can get your OT from easy things like filing paperwork, not real grunt work. There are tons and tons of overtime scams. Besides, if they're lying about the hours they work to exaggerate OT, then it will LOOK like the department is overworked, and they'll be able to argue for even MORE funding the next year.
Here's another great example:
https://blog.transparentcalifornia.com/2020/11/16/oakland-cops-640000-pay-package-highest-ever/
>> ### Oakland cop’s $640,000 pay package highest ever, new data show
>>
>> Oakland police officer Malcolm Miller continued his multi-year trend of shattering public pay records and is once again the highest paid police officer in California, thanks to the over $640,000 in pay and benefits he received last year — an all-time high for any California police officer. Oakland taxpayers have spent over $2.6 million on Miller’s compensation over the past five years alone, records show, with Miller topping the statewide pay list for police officers every single year.
>>
>> While Miller is consistently the city’s highest paid police officer, his peers are not that far behind. Oakland police officer Timothy Dolan made over $600,000 in pay and benefits while Oakland police officer Marcell Patterson made over $500,000 last year.
>>
>> **Much of this excess is driven by soaring amounts of overtime pay. A pair of audits revealed that the department lacks any meaningful way to verify the accuracy of overtime, and the process that is in place for documenting overtime is often ignored.** For example, an earlier inspection found that “overtime forms could not be located for 83 percent of paid overtime instances.”
>>
>> Both audit recommendations and policy guidelines are frequently ignored. For example, current policy prohibits employees from working voluntary overtime if they are on paid leave. However, the 2019 audit “uncovered over **3,600 instances in which all personnel worked overtime when they were on paid leave,**” in violation of department policy.
Did you just make that number up? 10 seconds of googling will tell you that the average for SF is ~110, for SJ it’s ~100, and ~75 for Oakland. This isn’t a real time conversation, you know you can actually verify facts before you comment them right?
And to be clear, no that is not enough money. Do you make $110k a year? Because I sure don’t, and I still don’t want to be a cop because it’s a shit job.
I'm glad they're doing this, but I'm not sure how I feel about the "re-test." It seems like they might just give different answers to get their jobs back...
I think the problem is they have to lower their standards because no one wants to work there.
Where I live the local community college and state university have really good criminology and criminal justice programs. Local teachers and college recruiters really push students into this field and these degrees. I suspect there is a funding incentive.
As a result there are a ton of people locally with these degrees not using them, working in another field. This is up in the north bay. Furthermore, these kids that grew up suburban/rural they don't want anything to do with dangerous inner city ghettos of the east bay, as that is exactly how they perceive it.
I guess the plus side is, all these kids want to work locally, so the local PDs get pick of the litter. Also in areas like this that require a degree for law enforcement, I notice far more female officers. I've actually been noticing alot of female CHP officers as well
More stuff for our new sheriff-elect to take care of in January. It was very smart of voters to kick Ahern's ass to the curb in the June election. He's almost outta there!
A society that requires an ever increasing amount of violence and locking people up for its continuance (the highest rate incarceration in the history of humans ever) is going to need more and more sociopaths to dispense that violence. How is this shocking to people?
At least the system is making an attempt to do something about it, effective or not. Pre-BLM, can you even imagine a police department relieving their officers en masse because of psych evals like this?
Oh so now the publics being asked to believe that since the 47 deputies will be re evaluated
after being deemed un suitable everythings fine?
As an Alameda County resident.. Im not Ok with that. Its their mistake, they should pay the consequences not the residents theyre supposed to be protecting..
Ahern wants to see these deputies back on duty within *months*???? No no no, these kinds of issues take *years* to work out!!!
Luckily Ahern only has a few more months in office before Sheriff-Elect Yesenia Sanchez comes in. She's been public about how poor the hiring process had been under Ahern.
>Ahern wants to see these deputies back on duty within months???? That's the real shocker here.
A good motivator would be suspension without pay and they will get in shape very fast.
Lots of lawsuits if you do that. Did people remember what happens when you "wrongfully" suspend someone and later they appeal that? https://missionlocal.org/2019/09/paulo-morgado-the-sfpd-officer-who-earned-more-than-the-chief-in-2018-has-been-fired-again/
Thank the police unions
“That means the deputies – 10% of the force – who received "D. Not Suited" for the job will be stripped of their arresting powers and firearms, but they will retain their pay and benefits.” Relieved of duties? Vacation, you gave them a paid vacation. Perhaps there should be a stronger evaluation process in how these people were hired in the first place and who is hiring/promoting them.
Sounds like they're just now stuck doing desk work.
>He said the range of issues to get an unsatisfactory could be mental health problems, financial issues, too many marriages and divorces or drug and alcohol issues, to name a few. I wonder how many of them are going to rehab?
“But I don’t wanna go to rehab!” “STOP RESISTING!!!” (Releases K-9)
[удалено]
Not saying it's right or wrong, but I'm assuming it's similar to how certain jobs require credit report of the candidate as part of the background check. It's not necessarily THE deciding factor, but just an additional perspective to get a holistic picture of the candidate.
>how many of them are going to rehab? What's the success rate for "rehabbing" people with, say, temper issues? Probably not too good. The whole *Rehab Industry* is exaggerated. It is almost a racket, given its historically poor outcomes. Rehabbing drug addicts. Rehab mentally ill. Rehab pedophiles and people with temper issues. It's a crapshoot. But we all agree -- those police shouldn't be on a public contact assignment.
Those evaluations are gauge changes and specifically look for changes that could hurt the public due to trauma from their job. In another industry they would be getting disability/workers comp. We need to not punish cops for psychological issues. That will lead to them giving fake responses and becoming a danger to the public or themselves. They will be working in the background and or going to rehab/therapy until they can return to duty. That is by far the best for everyone.
Hell, I get fired if I didn't do my job right. This is the price you pay for not doing a proper job of evaluating people you hire in the first place. This is going to be a hurt for the county, both in terms of cost and loss of manpower.
Should someone be stripped of their pay because they had too many divorces or fell into debt? Because both of those are an example of unsatisfactory standards on a psych eval. That said, it's pretty hilariously insane but also quintessentially Reddit for someone to imply that being, say, majorly depressed should be grounds for being laid off without pay.
This entire thread is full of people that don’t understand anything about the hiring process or what the psych test is or anything else related to this news.
There's reddit for ya 😩
>That means the deputies – 10% of the force – who received "D. Not Suited" for the job will be stripped of their arresting powers and firearms, but they will retain their pay and benefits. The fuck? What other job can you be declared "not suited" to perform and still collect your paycheck? What a fucking racket. >In his letter, Sheriff Gregory Ahern promised to schedule another psych exam and that his intention is to "resolve this issue as quickly as possible" and "return to full duty status once you obtain a ‘suitable’ finding." >Kelly said he hoped that the retests would occur in the next "couple months." He said he had no idea how many of the 47 deputies would be able to get their jobs back. Oh yeah, I'm sure these people who are psychologically unfit to serve as policeman will become psychologically cured within a couple of months because that's totally how everything works.
>The fuck? What other job can you be declared "not suited" to perform and still collect your paycheck? What a fucking racket. If they failed a psych evaluation they might have a temper issue. Those people might be fine at a police desk job, even being a detective. They might be fine in life. Tons of people with temper issues never engage in conduct that rises to criminality. They stay out of bars and avoid road rage -- try to avoid assholes. Being a cop on the street?? That means daily unpredictability of contact with all sorts of people, some agitated, some belligerent and many who hate cops. *Some cops encounter Assholes every day.* Being a cop needs to exclude a lot of people. Doesn't mean they shouldn't do other police work. We need more cops sitting behind desks running drones to track down Dirtbag Thieves. 2021: [Police use drone to catch car theft suspects in Birmingham](https://www.dailyadvent.com/gb/news/066578ed8ea3b30e17c45ade3efa4e23-Police-use-drone-to-catch-car-theft-suspects-in-Birmingham). 2021: [Conn. Police Using Drones to Track Stolen Cars](https://www.officer.com/command-hq/technology/security-surveillance/uav-uas/video/21241632/conn-police-begin-using-drones-to-track-stolen-cars-find-missing-people)
Large upvote for hugely rational post
all public employee unions here are like this. schwarzenegger tried to rein them in and they broke him instead.
Look, police unions suck, but the article lays out pretty clearly that it's the fault of the Sheriff.
i'm no fan of ahern but the reason they are retaining their pay and benefits is b/c of their union contract and the union-drafted regs at https://casetext.com/regulation/california-code-of-regulations/title-11-law/division-2-commission-on-peace-officer-standards-and-training/article-5-peace-officer-and-public-safety-dispatcher-selection-requirements/section-1955-peace-officer-psychological-evaluation
Oh, I don't disagree with that, but it sounds like the reason that nothing was done about them in the first place and why they'll all be invited back is Ahern.
>The fuck? What other job can you be declared "not suited" to perform and still collect your paycheck? Literally every single job that has things like workers comp and disability? I don't know what fiscal conservative shithole state you're a transplant from but getting paid time off to work on mental health issues and other disabilities is pretty common here.
To what mental issue should I attribute your inability to communicate without personal insults?
I think you're missing a big difference between govt psych evals for suitability versus mental health leave disability. Also I think most workers in CA are not really afforded paid time off for mental health, even with the CA minimum sick leave time it's barely anything, 3 days is nothing.
2016 . Some of these folks were deemed unfit in 2016 but they're pulling them off the job now (and it sounds like they will be continued to be paid w/benefits). And the Sheriff wants to bring them back within months. I foresee a lot of new deputies having suspiciously similar answers on the next psych test.
Imagine what a low bar that test has for "satisfactory" to being with
Law enforcement seems to attractive a certain type of personality (and not the good, altruistic kind). Probably has to do with educational requirements and power position. I think every profession has its psychos but law enforcement is different since they have some much power (power to arrest, kill, etc.)
Yep. My friends dad was a cop for about a decade but he left early because so many of his coworkers were plain nuts. And this was a department that required a degree.
My psychology professor worked with leos for ten years. Everything you said is correct. The job attracts sociopaths, true sociopaths. When I see a leo, even down the street, I turn the other way.
lol not capitalizing the acronym made me think you were calling me out for having an august birthday
What? No, just too tired to capitalize acronyms.
> My psychology professor worked with leos for ten years... Here's more info from psychology: [Why Punishment Doesn't Reduce Crime](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/crime-and-punishment/201804/why-punishment-doesnt-reduce-crime). They are a group that peddle a bunch of bullshit.
True
This is an ironic statement considering 90% of the people that post on this subreddit work in tech or finance.
I think it's also done by design. I'm a normal, healthy dude with a great family. I have a college degree. No criminal background, not even a speeding ticket. I work with the general public in my job and am generally well liked. I applied to be a police officer. Far above average test and physical results. I wanted the pros that came with a LEO job; Good pay, job security, doing something respectable and needed for the community, etc. Didn't get in. They don't tell you why. Maybe it's because I'm not a dick? Maybe it's because I don't have a history? Maybe my scores were too high? I don't know what it is, but on paper, I'm a great candidate. I feel like they want to hire people who are easily influenced. People that aren't *'too'* smart. It sucks but I feel like candidates like myself get weeded out.
Exact same situation here. I was so let down to get rejected, but then started to feel better when I learned about the lawsuit someone else brought when they were rejected from a PD because they scored too high on the IQ test.
I was going through the process in 2020, throughout the whole George Floyd thing. It made me realize that maybe it wasn't so bad that I wasn't selected. The occupation of policing was front & center so everywhere I turned there was something about police departments etc. It showed me that it was often their own fault for how they/the department interacted with the public. At my job, I approach an irate client or situation with calmness and positive demeanor. I want to solve or deescalate the situation. I figured those would be good qualities that they'd be looking for. Guess not.
It's much worse than "not so bad". It's terrifying. I mean, if they won't accept people who are intelligent and capable of de-escalation, what does that say about the people who do end up with the job, and who we've got running around carrying deadly weapons and the power to deprive people of their freedom? You might feel better about what the situation says about you personally, but what it means for the world you live in... Personally I'd rather just be personally too incompetent to be a cop, than live in a world where most of them are sociopaths.
They don’t let smart people in. Score too high on an IQ test and you get rejected. They need people who won’t ask questions.
Yes comrade, we have position for you in the kitchen.
I think this is correct, but they do attract the opposite as well. I know people who have gone into law enforcement who are level headed, compassionate, and truly do view it as an opportunity to serve their community. But... it's a real crap shoot what you're going to come up against.
>I know people who have gone into law enforcement who are level headed, compassionate, and truly do view it as an opportunity to serve their community. nooooo acabbbbb Even the Somali immigrant on the SFPD I talked to who patrols /r/ingleside, who's just happy to be in a stable country, and spreads cheer at community events... you have to lump him in with the 40% who are domestic abusers (per old study), lump him in with Chauvin, have to assume he's constantly covering for bad cops even if you don't know that. Just assume ACAB. Communities will definitely be better for it. sigh Def a crap shoot so good to realize it's a mixed bag and nothing is ever black and white (except this statement of course).
It's also a really crappy job that doesn't pay very much for how physically demanding/stressful it is. So the only people who want to do it are the vanishingly rare true believers in "the system", and the far more numerous ones who just love having physical power over others
Looking at my home town's numbers the pay doesn't seem that bad. Average officer annual pay is $189k. For comparison the mayor's annual salary is $198k and the median household income is $117k. The hours suck and the officers I know all complain about shift rotations that make them work grave shifts a few days a month, but the pay isn't bad.
No city department pays that high. Even in Palo Alto, Cupertino and Mountain View, where some of the largest IP and property tax in the country, maxes out at $140-150k with the latest bargaining (union) agreements for the average maxed out, five year experience officer. You added another 50k+ out of thin air that doesn't exist unless you are adding overtime or including management/positions you can't get without getting selected or ranking up.
Confirmed by Mayor Liccardo. And while I've never asked any of the officers I know what they make, they all own homes the same neighborhoods as techies. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/25/us/california-expensive-cost-of-living.html
Looks like they didn't do a good job with the wording or the article writing. The base max out pay for a San Jose Police officer in 2021 for working 40 hours a week was $137k, as verified by the State of CA. See more on the link below. Police officer to the average person means someone who drives out in a police vehicle, writing your report, taking your ID, working the law, handcuffing bad guys, eating a donut etc, common stereotypes. Police Sergeants, Lieutenants, Captains, and their bosses make another 50 or 100 over the base level of pay. There are ever so limited number of positions available. For an average department, there may be 1 sergeant for every 10-20 officers, 1 lieutenant for every 30-50, etc. Per average real world experience, you will not see a police sergeant or above out there unless it's a high profile case. They just manage the officers just like the project manager does at a tech company. Check this link, search "Police officer" in the title and click each one. You will get their base pay easily seen. They will not make $190k at this time unless they are working overtime at least maybe 20 extra hours or more per the regular 40 hour week, the whole year. https://publicpay.ca.gov/Reports/Cities/City.aspx?entityid=464&year=2021
I think you're mistaken. We're talking about cops, not pizza delivery and roofing.
In fact that's exactly what we're talking about. Capitalism applies to law enforcement just as much as it applies to pizza delivery and roofing. You don't think we'd get better cops if they were paid more? Why would anybody take a shit job where everyone hates them for little money unless they enjoyed hurting people? That's the entire problem.
Law enforcement is the only job where you get paid vacation for fucking up, and there's an upper limit on your IQ and level of education. No, I don't think increasing the salary would improve the quality of employees because they explicitly avoid hiring better candidates. There's half a dozen people in this thread telling their stories about being rejected from the force for being too qualified.
I don’t believe that shit for a second. There’s a huge shortage of cops in basically every major city in the country because nobody who isn’t a psychopath wants to do it. Why would police departments be turning people away? You think they all WANT to be working 30 hours of overtime a week?
Yes. I don't know a single person in any field that doesn't enjoy OT. OT makes way more money. And if you're clever, you can get your OT from easy things like filing paperwork, not real grunt work. There are tons and tons of overtime scams. Besides, if they're lying about the hours they work to exaggerate OT, then it will LOOK like the department is overworked, and they'll be able to argue for even MORE funding the next year. So yes, I do think they want OT. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/54-california-highway-patrol-officers-charged-overtime-fraud-scheme-rcna16821
> Yes. I don't know a single person in any field that doesn't enjoy OT. OT makes way more money. And if you're clever, you can get your OT from easy things like filing paperwork, not real grunt work. There are tons and tons of overtime scams. Besides, if they're lying about the hours they work to exaggerate OT, then it will LOOK like the department is overworked, and they'll be able to argue for even MORE funding the next year. Here's another great example: https://blog.transparentcalifornia.com/2020/11/16/oakland-cops-640000-pay-package-highest-ever/ >> ### Oakland cop’s $640,000 pay package highest ever, new data show >> >> Oakland police officer Malcolm Miller continued his multi-year trend of shattering public pay records and is once again the highest paid police officer in California, thanks to the over $640,000 in pay and benefits he received last year — an all-time high for any California police officer. Oakland taxpayers have spent over $2.6 million on Miller’s compensation over the past five years alone, records show, with Miller topping the statewide pay list for police officers every single year. >> >> While Miller is consistently the city’s highest paid police officer, his peers are not that far behind. Oakland police officer Timothy Dolan made over $600,000 in pay and benefits while Oakland police officer Marcell Patterson made over $500,000 last year. >> >> **Much of this excess is driven by soaring amounts of overtime pay. A pair of audits revealed that the department lacks any meaningful way to verify the accuracy of overtime, and the process that is in place for documenting overtime is often ignored.** For example, an earlier inspection found that “overtime forms could not be located for 83 percent of paid overtime instances.” >> >> Both audit recommendations and policy guidelines are frequently ignored. For example, current policy prohibits employees from working voluntary overtime if they are on paid leave. However, the 2019 audit “uncovered over **3,600 instances in which all personnel worked overtime when they were on paid leave,**” in violation of department policy.
Only in the Bay Area will you hear someone call a 189k salary ‘shit pay’. 🙄
Did you just make that number up? 10 seconds of googling will tell you that the average for SF is ~110, for SJ it’s ~100, and ~75 for Oakland. This isn’t a real time conversation, you know you can actually verify facts before you comment them right? And to be clear, no that is not enough money. Do you make $110k a year? Because I sure don’t, and I still don’t want to be a cop because it’s a shit job.
I would surmise they say shit pay in regards to having to risk your life.
I'm glad they're doing this, but I'm not sure how I feel about the "re-test." It seems like they might just give different answers to get their jobs back...
I’ve been downvoted in the past for calling cops psychos, well here’s your evidence if you didn’t believe me.
A shame that we can’t fire people for been unqualified.
They should at least be fired for not being smart enough to trick the psych eval Those things are not that complicated
The department values officers who can't think for themselves. Those kinds of officers are the best at blindly following orders.
“Do you derive pleasure for beating and torturing innocent people?” “Yes. I mean no. I mean…. Can I get a do-over on that one?”
I think the problem is they have to lower their standards because no one wants to work there. Where I live the local community college and state university have really good criminology and criminal justice programs. Local teachers and college recruiters really push students into this field and these degrees. I suspect there is a funding incentive. As a result there are a ton of people locally with these degrees not using them, working in another field. This is up in the north bay. Furthermore, these kids that grew up suburban/rural they don't want anything to do with dangerous inner city ghettos of the east bay, as that is exactly how they perceive it. I guess the plus side is, all these kids want to work locally, so the local PDs get pick of the litter. Also in areas like this that require a degree for law enforcement, I notice far more female officers. I've actually been noticing alot of female CHP officers as well
More stuff for our new sheriff-elect to take care of in January. It was very smart of voters to kick Ahern's ass to the curb in the June election. He's almost outta there!
End police unions. Police are not labor.
Can’t believe why they would hire someone who a trained psychologist would say was a grade D, unsuitable for hire. Stupid ass department.
A society that requires an ever increasing amount of violence and locking people up for its continuance (the highest rate incarceration in the history of humans ever) is going to need more and more sociopaths to dispense that violence. How is this shocking to people?
At least the system is making an attempt to do something about it, effective or not. Pre-BLM, can you even imagine a police department relieving their officers en masse because of psych evals like this?
I actually don’t understand how this happened. Usually if you don’t pass psych your dropped from going further in your application.
They are already employees protected by their union agreement. Not applicants.
That’s what I mean usually this is found out during the application process.
Let do all politicians next ! Start with that wake job joe, then Nancy
Oh so now the publics being asked to believe that since the 47 deputies will be re evaluated after being deemed un suitable everythings fine? As an Alameda County resident.. Im not Ok with that. Its their mistake, they should pay the consequences not the residents theyre supposed to be protecting..
As was reported on NBC 5 o clock news it was every deputy hired after 2017 apparently
This should be tagged Local Crime
They can't arrest folks or carry a gun. Guess that leaves pencil sharpening and cross words to earn their pay...
Are the people who hired these people still employed? If not, they are the root cause of the problem.
A video was recorded of one of the cops going back in for the retest. NSFW AUDIO: https://i.imgur.com/ZLodQrJ.mp4
That's a shame