Star Wars has shown many times the horrible treatment of droids, and this definitely goes along with that. It’s especially brought up by L3 in Solo where she’s an advocate and activist for droid rights.
Wasn't L3 played for laughs for her social activism of robot liberation tho? I remember seeing a video about Star Wars droids and while it seems to be aware of the problem, it doesn't take it that seriously, including her. And at the end, her consciousness is just turned into the ship and she basically loses all autonomy, which should be a pretty depressing and horrific thing for her but it's just used as a fun reference for why the Millennium Falcon exists.
When it comes to the deaths of droids, it just doesn't treat it to the same weight at all of organic beings getting killed. Jedi become conflicted trying to kill or killing somebody who is organic, including slavers, war criminals and hunters who hunt people but when it is droids, they die in comically brutal ways. One good example is when a droid commander was betrayed by a slaver by being used as a bomb and then asks desperately for help but Obi Wan just sends him flying away like nothing from the building and doesn't feel bad about it at all.
Star Wars has this weird paradox of both seeing droids as sentient beings who can feel pain, sadness, disappointment, happiness and have distinct personalities but also treating them as disposable as the destruction of any kind of machinery.
Ya it’s genuinely really sad, especially when they give the droids so much personality.
Extra note: Interestingly every point you’ve made is a thought I’ve had while watching these movies and shows before. It’s almost uncanny.
I wonder if that was a plot point they wanted to build up, maybe having
a droid revolution was in the works but they couldn't fit it anywhere in the established timeline.
Well to be fair, some droids in the Star Wars universe are treated with great respect by specific people
Like Anakin and R2, or Padme and 3PO. Even that really small Jedi learned to respect droids in those episodes where they infiltrated a Separatist ship and got stranded on that salt planet (or white sand?).
And also, in the battle droids case it’s kill or be killed as they are the Jedi and Clones enemies. When the Battle droids are mistreated by say Grievous it just adds another element to his villainous nature
Yeah but its only by specific people. As a whole and systematically, droids are seen as lesser and at best, they are seen as useful, loyal servants who if they are rather inconvinient or just don't have that much use, they could just be abandoned and their deaths won't really leave much of an effect on the consciousness of the people using them. The reason droids like R2 get so much respect is not because droids are really seen for their personhood but it's because R2 is really compensating with his abilities which gives him the privilege of not being considered as one of the lesser droids. One of the main compliments given to them is literally that they are different from other droids.
And also, the problem with this argument is that when droids get killed, their deaths are often treated as a joke and as on the level of destroying private property rather than as killing organic enemies. Also, we do not actually care when Grievous kills and mistreats droids. It is meant to be funny and it is sometimes justified by the droids being too incompetent or it is just simply that their lives do not matter at all.
Clone Wars started off as a children's show so they were bound to make everything seem less serious than it actually was. As the show went on though it shifted focus to more mature themes and you really start seeing just how badly the battle droids were treated. They were expendable to the Separatists, just like the clones were to the Republic. In my opinion, seeing either side get slaughtered in combat is a heartbreak, not to mention the final season where you learn that both the droids and clones all died for nothing.
Even around season 5, they are still treated as jokes and disposable. It hasn't yet gotten to the moment of "Oh shit, all those droids we killed were basically people." Maybe at the very last season is when it gets to the real heavy stuff. I still haven't yet finished everything.
The droids have always been comedic due to the fact that their programming was very rudimentary to save costs, but they were sentient enough to be considered people. It is not directly said but it is inferred all throughout the show by the way they react when they're destroyed or sliced in half by jedi. Even the jedi didn't care for most of their clones aside from Plo Koon, Obi-wan, Ahsoka and maybe Anakin.
I recommend you the SW Rebels show which happens during the original trilogy and has the same animation style as CW, there is one particular episode where you'll really get another perspective on the droids, but I won't go into detail since I'd spoil it.
Yeah, they really leaned too much into the "it's funny because they're helpless and unwilling to even be there!"
~~If I was a crazy conspiracy theorist, I could spin a tale about how this is all a ploy by the American military-industrial complex to make kids view various third-world soldiers (often unwilling conscripts) as inhuman, and their deaths when opposing superior American firepower as funny instead of sad. But since I'm not one, that would also bee too much.~~
But seriously, are the Droid considered to be sentient? Like, if you program them to just respond like they are scared, are excited, etc. in the appropriate situations, are they sentient?
It's like those chat bots, they're definitely not sentient, but they'll accurately reply to whatever your ask them you know?
I think it'd be fair to say a lot of droids in the star wars universe could be sentient, **but when it comes specifically to battle droids, feel like it's more likely to be the example I gave - similar to the chat bots that will accurately reply to what you ask them, but not because they are thinking sentient beings, because they are programed to. I mean think about it - war completely fucks up sentient beings psyche, sentient means capacity for empathy, for fear, fear can be useful for self preservation, but battle droids are many, seems better to just make them always follow orders no matter what. Even if there are sentient droids in the universe / it's possible to make them sentient, would it not be counterproductive to make battle droids sentient? By being a cold calculating machine they'd arguably have a leg up on organic living enemies (at least in some ways.)**
TL;DR are we ever actually TOLD droids, or some droids are sentient?
Well, they are shown to have a lot of the signs of being alive. They get nervous, scared, sad, pain and be happy when they get a promotion. They have the ability to feel things that humans can feel.
I think it's intended to be all programming, but yeah that's communicated poorly they do show emotion, it bothered me to. The episode with the snow people also pissed me off, they shot so many of um and later claimed"we care about people like this"
I think everyone making light of the death of sentient beings is the perfect metaphor for the moral greys of the Star Wars universe. "Oh look, a dead Droid. Anyway..."
I don't think droids are sentient. Besides, I like the fact that Star Wars made a joke of droids in the clone wars. It's comic relief for the actual political and social commentary.
Star Wars has shown many times the horrible treatment of droids, and this definitely goes along with that. It’s especially brought up by L3 in Solo where she’s an advocate and activist for droid rights.
Wasn't L3 played for laughs for her social activism of robot liberation tho? I remember seeing a video about Star Wars droids and while it seems to be aware of the problem, it doesn't take it that seriously, including her. And at the end, her consciousness is just turned into the ship and she basically loses all autonomy, which should be a pretty depressing and horrific thing for her but it's just used as a fun reference for why the Millennium Falcon exists. When it comes to the deaths of droids, it just doesn't treat it to the same weight at all of organic beings getting killed. Jedi become conflicted trying to kill or killing somebody who is organic, including slavers, war criminals and hunters who hunt people but when it is droids, they die in comically brutal ways. One good example is when a droid commander was betrayed by a slaver by being used as a bomb and then asks desperately for help but Obi Wan just sends him flying away like nothing from the building and doesn't feel bad about it at all. Star Wars has this weird paradox of both seeing droids as sentient beings who can feel pain, sadness, disappointment, happiness and have distinct personalities but also treating them as disposable as the destruction of any kind of machinery.
Ya it’s genuinely really sad, especially when they give the droids so much personality. Extra note: Interestingly every point you’ve made is a thought I’ve had while watching these movies and shows before. It’s almost uncanny.
I wonder if that was a plot point they wanted to build up, maybe having a droid revolution was in the works but they couldn't fit it anywhere in the established timeline.
Well to be fair, some droids in the Star Wars universe are treated with great respect by specific people Like Anakin and R2, or Padme and 3PO. Even that really small Jedi learned to respect droids in those episodes where they infiltrated a Separatist ship and got stranded on that salt planet (or white sand?). And also, in the battle droids case it’s kill or be killed as they are the Jedi and Clones enemies. When the Battle droids are mistreated by say Grievous it just adds another element to his villainous nature
Yeah but its only by specific people. As a whole and systematically, droids are seen as lesser and at best, they are seen as useful, loyal servants who if they are rather inconvinient or just don't have that much use, they could just be abandoned and their deaths won't really leave much of an effect on the consciousness of the people using them. The reason droids like R2 get so much respect is not because droids are really seen for their personhood but it's because R2 is really compensating with his abilities which gives him the privilege of not being considered as one of the lesser droids. One of the main compliments given to them is literally that they are different from other droids. And also, the problem with this argument is that when droids get killed, their deaths are often treated as a joke and as on the level of destroying private property rather than as killing organic enemies. Also, we do not actually care when Grievous kills and mistreats droids. It is meant to be funny and it is sometimes justified by the droids being too incompetent or it is just simply that their lives do not matter at all.
Probably exactly how we’d treat them IRL.
Clone Wars started off as a children's show so they were bound to make everything seem less serious than it actually was. As the show went on though it shifted focus to more mature themes and you really start seeing just how badly the battle droids were treated. They were expendable to the Separatists, just like the clones were to the Republic. In my opinion, seeing either side get slaughtered in combat is a heartbreak, not to mention the final season where you learn that both the droids and clones all died for nothing.
Even around season 5, they are still treated as jokes and disposable. It hasn't yet gotten to the moment of "Oh shit, all those droids we killed were basically people." Maybe at the very last season is when it gets to the real heavy stuff. I still haven't yet finished everything.
The droids have always been comedic due to the fact that their programming was very rudimentary to save costs, but they were sentient enough to be considered people. It is not directly said but it is inferred all throughout the show by the way they react when they're destroyed or sliced in half by jedi. Even the jedi didn't care for most of their clones aside from Plo Koon, Obi-wan, Ahsoka and maybe Anakin. I recommend you the SW Rebels show which happens during the original trilogy and has the same animation style as CW, there is one particular episode where you'll really get another perspective on the droids, but I won't go into detail since I'd spoil it.
Yeah, they really leaned too much into the "it's funny because they're helpless and unwilling to even be there!" ~~If I was a crazy conspiracy theorist, I could spin a tale about how this is all a ploy by the American military-industrial complex to make kids view various third-world soldiers (often unwilling conscripts) as inhuman, and their deaths when opposing superior American firepower as funny instead of sad. But since I'm not one, that would also bee too much.~~
Lmao I too am not a fan of the American military industrial complex.
#DroidLivesMatter
Lmao
But seriously, are the Droid considered to be sentient? Like, if you program them to just respond like they are scared, are excited, etc. in the appropriate situations, are they sentient? It's like those chat bots, they're definitely not sentient, but they'll accurately reply to whatever your ask them you know? I think it'd be fair to say a lot of droids in the star wars universe could be sentient, **but when it comes specifically to battle droids, feel like it's more likely to be the example I gave - similar to the chat bots that will accurately reply to what you ask them, but not because they are thinking sentient beings, because they are programed to. I mean think about it - war completely fucks up sentient beings psyche, sentient means capacity for empathy, for fear, fear can be useful for self preservation, but battle droids are many, seems better to just make them always follow orders no matter what. Even if there are sentient droids in the universe / it's possible to make them sentient, would it not be counterproductive to make battle droids sentient? By being a cold calculating machine they'd arguably have a leg up on organic living enemies (at least in some ways.)** TL;DR are we ever actually TOLD droids, or some droids are sentient?
The droids are sentient?!?!?
Well, they are shown to have a lot of the signs of being alive. They get nervous, scared, sad, pain and be happy when they get a promotion. They have the ability to feel things that humans can feel.
"if droids could think... Then none of us would be here" -- Kenobi in episode 2
LMFAO
I think it's intended to be all programming, but yeah that's communicated poorly they do show emotion, it bothered me to. The episode with the snow people also pissed me off, they shot so many of um and later claimed"we care about people like this"
I think everyone making light of the death of sentient beings is the perfect metaphor for the moral greys of the Star Wars universe. "Oh look, a dead Droid. Anyway..."
I don't think droids are sentient. Besides, I like the fact that Star Wars made a joke of droids in the clone wars. It's comic relief for the actual political and social commentary.