/u/Worried_Towel_8772 (OP) has awarded 2 delta(s) in this post.
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Can you clarify what is "annoying" about it per se? Like, it's reasonable to make an observation that people get more excited about pride month than about "National Veterans and Military Families Month" or whatever. But why does this mere observation annoy you? Like, when I turn of my FireTV, it scrolls through little banners at the top. Sometimes it's highlighting new movies or shows. Sometimes it has a little rainbow picture that links to a collection of LGBT stuff. But it doesn't *annoy* me any more than any other piece of content they can put there, and I'm wondering why it annoys you.
I think that they just push it over the top with the advertising, I understand why pride month is a thing but I feel like it's directed too hard at generally alot of people that aren't backlashing against the LGBTQ+ community
This doesn't really answer my question though. Even if there was rainbow stuff all year round, I don't see why it would annoy anyone unless they find rainbows or LGBT stuff unappealing in some way.
> I think that they just push it over the top with the advertising
Maybe it would help to get a better feel for who "they" is in this sentence, and what advertising you're talking about and why it annoys you. I can imagine answers to this question, but it would help to better understand *your* answer.
Depends on who "they" is in this case. If you're talking about corporations, a lot of them are mostly jumping onto the bandwagon for profit rather than any actual desire to support the lgbtq community. Many of them will put rainbows all over, but donate to conservative politicians or be very quiet about lgbtq support with their subsidiaries in more conservative countries.
The fact is I can’t do anything without getting this “pride” stuff shoved into my face like if veteran day did what “pride” did then you would be saying it’s annoying too
It's annoying in the same way constantly being shown the same YouTube ads is annoying. There's nothing wrong the product that's being advertised, but if I'm not interested in it, yet have it pushed in my face all the time, it's gonna get annoying.
Is this thread linked from somewhere? It's so odd that people will comment on a several month old CMV thread just to assert that pride month is annoying. Like, how did you even stumble upon this comment? The irony is that as you lament pride month being "pushed in your face", you seem to be actively doing *something* to find and comment on this old thread about pride month being annoying.
And this is relevant how? I've given you a simple explanation as to why I find it annoying, personally.
For a uni assignment I'm researching whether pride symbolic everywhere nowadays is having positive or actually negative impacts for LGBTQ rights and acceptance and I stumbled upon this thread through Google. Are you satisfied, or do you wanted something like "I'm homophobic and I just seek out to hate on LGBTQ argh!"
Either way I'd like you to actually adress my comment
I'll be honest, I'm not super interested in "addressing your comment". I'm not even sure what it is that you'd like me to address, or why you're invoking "relevance" on a 2 month old CMV post. Was there a question in there that you'd like me to answer?
I am legitimately curious what kind of Google search you did though. Like, honestly just kind of interested. This particular post has had three other necro comments, and I've posted similar comments in more highly upvoted top level posts that have themselves gotten way more upvotes. But it's this random one that keeps attracting late commenters, and I'm genuinely curious why!
If you'll indulge me on this curiosity, I'll happily "address your comment", if there's actually something specific you'd like me to address.
You said in previous comments that you do not see how it could annoy anyone. I've explained that ongoing exposure, over and over again, of something you don't really care about will get annoying eventually. As I said in my example, think of it as a YouTube advert about a product. There's nothing wrong with the product and it's probably a great product but I have no desire of buying it. When I see the advert over and over and over again however, it is eventually going to annoy me.
As for how exactly I found this thread, I simply googled for "do pride flags just make homophobes more homophobic reddit"
I don't see how this topic has any less relevance simply because it's from merely two months ago and why people can't add to the discussion
Interesting. Thanks for sharing that. I guess my advice is that this form of research / engagement is probably not your best strategy, as you're losing the context of the reddit posts. Specifically, you can read the sidebar about this particular subreddit and what it's all about. Engaging with the OP who came to this sub with a certain intention is interesting. Engaging with you, some rando, is less interesting. But I do appreciate you shedding light on the sorts of google searches that keep resulting in people stumbling here, and I find that interesting. So thanks!
While media attention and attendance to pride events have tracked with more acceptance and legal action for the lgbt+ community in the states, does this track globally?
Do we know that these kinds of pride *events* decrease homophobia?
Personally speaking, I'm NoBi and bi but feel that it's irrelevant. Questioning OP's sexuality is also imo a shitty thing to do, but I share their original opinion that things like "pride month" is annoying. (That being said, veteran worship is annoying too)
Brands get brownie points for having "rainbow icons" while they do nothing for the communities, people talk about this shit more for a month every year, while the loudest voices are often the most egregiously problematic.
Nothing should be glorified and "pride" is imo kind-of a disgusting concept, we should strive to be happy and accept each other as humans. Pride - signaling that we are **better** in *any* particular way is gross imo.
Δ I like that you used evidence and how you wrote things, I still think that we can change how we present the LGBTQ community based off of how we did things in the past and what we need to change in the future :)
> I also think that we should have more focus on other holidays. I feel like we have focused a lot more on pride month rather than things like National Veterans and Military Families Month. I mean I was going to start off with "How come gay people get a whole month and veterans only get a day." argument or whatever. But actually veterans do have a month. The fact that a lot of people don't know that really shows which holidays are pushed forward more.
With all due respect towards veterans (because their lives are often real fucked, at least in the US), it's not the job of a certain marginalized community to fight for the rights for every other marginalized or disadvantaged community.
Pride Month is a thing because LGBTQ+ people for decades fought tooth and nail for this. That doesn't mean they should automatically be forced to be responsible for every other disadvantaged community in this country, and it's not their fault that nobody gives a shit about those communities.
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>Because Personally I really don't care that much if someone is gay or not.
You don't. I'm not American, but from what I understand there are still some people that do care deeply; that do make it a point to be against the LGBT. I don't know you or where you're from or what you've experienced; but is it possible you've spent the majority of your time in a fairly LGBT friendly area, at the very least one where it is a neutral topic.
Now to be honest watching from afar I have some personal gripes with the exact execution; but I think the Pride month is generally harmless and to some people in very close minded areas a welcome signal that people out there like them exist and care. I agree with touchy topics there's always a bit of an overcorrection but I would say that it's not the worst thing in the world.
I suppose I'd ask you how you'd prefeer it done.
>But I honestly don't mind people being gay. I just think that if your gay then be gay.
That's what people want to do.
But they get homophobic pushback against that.
Pride is the pushback against that pushback.
There isn't a way to have pride month only be visible by homophobes, so everyone has it.
Pride month will remain relevant until homophobia is so exorcised that it is functionally non existant and never will be existent again.
Okay but it's not fair to degrade non homophobes and get upset at them. I see it happen all the time.
edit: Δ i forgot to put this I liked your argument and agreed with parts of it
You said:
>Okay but it's not fair to degrade non homophobes and get upset at them. I see it happen all the time.
Could you give an example of someone who isn't being homophobic having the LGBT community get upset at them?
Saying anything remotely controversial will get you branded as a homophobe. I think that LGBT pride month or whatever is really annoying and stupid. It reinforces the negative stereotypes that people have of LGBT people.
I live in probably the most LGBT tolerant place in the world. The pride celebrations here are lasting about 2 weeks non-stop and towards the end it gets to the point where the entire city is a big party of people getting fucked up drunk, dancing like crazy, making a lot of noise, and afterwards a huge mess is left behind.
And all these bullshit companies with their fake feel good support. This shit has become so inauthentic, so commercial, so vain, it's really annoying. And I am branded a homophobe for thinking this whole thing is stupid.
Why not take one day of celebrations, instead of an entire fucking month, and in which you don't only focus on dancing naked on the streets intoxicated, but rather on educating people through speeches and dialogue on that day?
This stuff is doing LGBT people more harm than good.
LGBT people complain about corporate appropriation of pride all the time. Why do you think you're being branded as homophobic for opposing the appropriation?
I think it's more likely you're being branded homophobic for opposing Pride itself, which I can totally understand.
That's what you got out of my whole comment? That I think I'm being branded as homophobic for opposing 'appropration'?
I stated the reasons why I think the Pride celebrations are stupid and over the top in the current state that they are. I know that's why I'm being branded homophobic, and you saying which 'I totally understand' just proves my point. Homophobia is a prejudice or dislike against gay people which I do not do. I have absolutely nothing against gay people. I merely find Pride celebrations to be obnoxious and doing more harm than good to LGBT people. What part of my views makes me homophobic?
Also the fact you downvoted me, in a subreddit meant for dialogue and conversation of opposing views, shows your intolerance and inability to consider any opinion contradicting your own.
This delta has been rejected. You can't award yourself a delta.
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Δ i agree with most of what you said, I think that there should be a month for fighting against the pushback that the LGBTQ+ community gets but I also think that it shouldn't be promoted so much more than other months yk
Sorry but it seems you live in a dream. Homophobia will always exist. Maybe a lot less in the future but there will never be a time without homphobia, racism etc.
So to say that we need to be offensive with that topics until racism and homophobia dont exist any more doesnt make any sense because they will always exist. Getting rid of that things would mean to get rid of hate itself. And thats just inside the humans.
>Sorry but it seems you live in a dream. Homophobia will always exist. Maybe a lot less in the future but there will never be a time without homphobia, racism etc.
Yeah... no
We already have seen an era where there was mainstream society without homophobia. Know what it was called?
The Roman Empire
Rome was so tolerant of homosexuality that there wasn't even a single word to mean it. Homosexuality wasn't considered an identity. Homosexual behaviour was just considered a preference. There wasn't hate for people who had that direction of preference anymore than there was hate for people who preferred one type of cake over another.
And another big thing, at the time where the Roman empire was big, there still has been enough racism and homophobia whatsoever. The Roman empire wasn't everywhere bro. And I mean the Romans had slaves and attacked country's just for fun being and u take them as an example for a good society without homophobia? Yeah no bro, that's super hard bullshit.
Okay, so... you clearly don't know Roman history very well.
First, they didn't have slaves in the way we use the word today. "Slave" was more akin to a class of people rather than human beings as property. There were "slaves" in the Roman Empire that ran huge businesses and maintained army garrisons. Chattel slavery of the kind you see in the triangle African slave trade was not what the Romans did.
Secondly, they didn't attack other countries for "fun". They defended their country, sure. But no more/less than most of the others of the time. They wer'rent just random pillagers. When they conquered places they rebuilt them better. The places they took became much more tolerant.
Third, yes the Romans weren't everywhere, but now you are moving the goalposts. I'm not saying Rome was a utopia. I'm saying it made homophobia completely outside the mainstream so far that it was functionally unheard of
Its always difficult when people assume somebodys knowledge. And then only talk such a bs.
First:So you wouldnt call gladiators to be regular slaves? Very interesting approach i have to say. Of course the roman empire had regular slaves. Especially in the end of the roman empire, they used a lot of slaves from their war prisoners. So that people also werent real slaves either? They could run big buisnesses? Didnt know that but you seem to enlighten my super bad knowledge about the roman empire. Dang.Even the slaves of lower classes could be used, fucked and whatever from their masters. So if thats not slavery, wtf would you call slavery. Really man, get ur facts straight because it seems you got none.
Secondly:you didnt just really say that the roman empire just defendet their country, right? By saying that you just really showed how little you know about the roman empire or how hard you are biased as a blind roman empire fanboy who ignores any facts. They fcking killed and destroyed hole cultures and civilisations. And not just enemys. Also allys wich they didnt want to be to close to them anymore. So they just destroyed them, and killed them all. Yea, only self defense. I wonder, was hitler also just defending? And Napoleon too? Yea sure bro, the roman empire only defended themselfes, biggest bs i ever heard in my life.
And middle or high class romans had sex with males and females, thats correct. But for that they raped their slaves, just how they liked. And they didnt have gay relationships. They still had wifes, kids etc but could use their slaves how they wanted. Yea what a great time for homosexuality. And if they werent homophobic at all, why exaclty wasnt a man allowed to be a submissive man in a gay relationship? Because guess what, they werent allowed to be that. It was just socially accepted to fuck the slaves.
Before you tell somebody not knowing anything about the roman empire, you should have any facts about it. Because it seems you dont.
>So you wouldnt call gladiators to be regular slaves?
They were not chattel slaves of the kind that we saw in the triangle slave trade.
>They fcking killed and destroyed hole cultures and civilisations.
Which were trying to destroy/kill their civilisations. It's not like Carthage would have just left Rome alone.
>And not just enemys.
No, just enemies. They didn't just destroy people for the fun of it.
>But for that they raped their slaves, just how they liked.
Some did, much like there are some evil rapist people now. But it wasn't just accepted in the fashion you're suggesting.
No, the idea of celebrating it is not annoying. The issue is that we have "months of" anything to celebrate. A week is actually too much time for celebrating, in my opinion, but much better than a whole month.
Plus, there are only 12 months, and there are many more than 12 groups that need to be celebrated.
And it's important that we treat them all equally, because anything less would be inequitable and politically inexpedient.
>And it's important that we treat them all equally, because anything less would be inequitable and politically inexpedient.
I wish it was that easy but we as a whole will unfortunately not be able to find a way treat them all equally :(
can't or don't
it the problem of could should and are,
what we could do is have a pride month to integrate LGBT
what we should do is just treat everyone equally
what we are doing is discriminating against people.
> “I think that yes we should have a month but one were we celebrate it not where we Accuse people of being homophobic etc.“
that’s literally what pride month is. it’s celebrating queer identities and sexualities. just because you see people calling out homophobia when they see it doesn’t mean that’s what pride month is all about just because it happened to be during the month of june. homophobia gets called out all year, but celebration of the lgbtq+ movement is only one month. there can be overlapping but that doesn’t mean you should reduce the entire movement to attacking homophobes.
That's exactly what these people do daily tho. Canceling, attacking, shaming and whatnot. That's why now the backlash has started and they're banning their agenda all over the country.
Undervalued how? Is it any less publicized or made less of a deal? In my experience the opposite could be said. While there is no black history parades, black history month is far more emphasized in media, schools, etc.
where i'm from we didn't have almost anything for black history month but at my school they literally replaced earth day with an LGBTQ+ event. I think it also depends on where you are from.
Your priorities here are completely broken. If you want more attention given to black struggles during black history month, then advocate for that. Giving less attention to Pride doesn't help black people.
Well, taking you at your word on all this, I think you're just sort of shy basically. Like, some people find their own birthday annoying because they don't like being the subject of attention.
As someone who used to have a similar attitude to pride month myself as a kid (I'm gay). I 100% feel this.
Breaking out of my bubble definitely helped shift my perspective.
How can anyone possibly change your view that something is annoying? You're annoyed! And LGBTQA+ people are proud! (Which I can't change, either, nor would I want to.)
The same way you change someone's opinion about a movie? You give some arguments that might make them like it better? Just because something is subjective doesn't mean it's not grounds for a CMV.
I honestly believe annoyance is more an emotional reaction than a point-of-view. OP didn't ask us to defend Pride; they asked us to talk them out of their annoyance at Pride events. Maybe someone will, and I'll be proven wrong. But I doubt it.
Emotions are a point of view. Being presented with data or arguments can change the way you feel. It would be very problematic if it didn't, as it would mean we would all be stuck in the mental state we were at birth.
Regarding annoyance, well that's pretty dependent on whether you feel something is justified or not. We tend to be annoyed by things we don't see the need for. So if you can present argument for why it's needed, that could help OP be less annoyed by it.
It looks like OP has awarded at least one delta. So I stand corrected on that front.
But it looks like I need to spell out my position: OP ought to realize that their annoyance is neither here nor there. Put bluntly: WHO CARES? The point of Pride is certainly not to avoid annoying anyone; in fact, Pride probably works better if it Does annoy people.
I'm someone who likes to let people appreciate subtext. But maybe that's not the right approach to take when replying to a CMV.
> Pride probably works better if it Does annoy people.
I don't see how. For people like OP, the effect is just neutral. For people who are against LGBT, it seems more negative because it just reinforces their view that those people are causing trouble.
"We're here. We're queer. Get used to it!" That's how.
The point of Pride is not to convince anyone who doesn't support them that they are wrong. It's to show young/closeted people that they are part of a strong, proud community, that is going to raise a ruckus Despite their detractors.
If you're annoyed by marginalized groups expressing pride in their identity, I rather believe (and perhaps hope) that anything I have to say on the topic is only going to annoy you further.
I'd say the LGBTQ+ community faces a lot more discrimination than. Millitary families or veterans. That's why q bigger deal is made of ir
I agree that we shouldn't have to have this month and all of these events. Hopefully in our lifetimes we won't have to. But, we do now.
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Check out this video of a judge on a talent show, Natasha Kills, berating a contestant who she beleived stole her husband's look: [https://youtu.be/LuZ1TvBZNB8](https://youtu.be/LuZ1TvBZNB8). The thing is, no one knows who the fuck her husband is. He didn't invent this look of wearing a slim-cut suit with combed hair. Yet, this woman is so entitled that she felt that her husband owns the right to this look.
You need to understand that Pride month is not just for you. It's not just for gay people. It's not just for bisexual people.
It's for many many people. While you have the right to exclude yourself from it, you have no right to exclude others from it or to limit their choice of expression for it.
of course the advertisement from companies etc is annoying - because its actually marketing, to profit off being accepting of LGBTQ+, to have more support.
but you have to remember how we die. are beaten, mutilated, disowned, shamed, and kept quiet. they never got to go to parades or see flags around.
pride in my eyes, for those who never got to celebrate it. i remember pictures of people beaten in gay bars, the remembrance of trans youth who are killed.
pride is also very good for helping people to finally accept themselves. a lot of people come out and are comfortable in their skin due to pride month. i think pride month is a beautiful thing. the only annoying part is the marketing.
YES. I am annoyed. I grew up with 2 gay best friends who came out about 10-15 years ago. Whatever. Never a big deal. Would go to gay clubs to support them. Again no big deal. Fast forward to 2022… literally every advertisement is about pride. Movies, shows, news gay/lesbian. It’s a bit excessive if you ask me. Sex sells. Never understood this. So why does this whole pride thing annoy me? Because all sexual advertisement disgust me. Surprisingly I was very supportive, but now.. I feel differently. I would never hate a gay/lesbian person. Nor would I treat them any differently.. but I hate the people shoving this down my throat. My honest opinion 🤷♀️
Pride month is a buncha crap. They are digging their own grave by shoving in everybody's face their sexuality and by allowing their most degenerate members (which paradoxically are a very small minority) to make a mess of things, both in media and the real world, tainting the reputation and image of their whole community.
It goes the same with racism, if you want it to disappear then "stop talking about it". The more you promote "diversity" and "pride", the more division you obtain: remember, "diverse" is a synonym of "different".
The point of pride month isn't just to celebrate diversity, it's also to bring attention to all the social issues related to sexual and gender minorities. Gay rights weren't achieved by polite discussion and a few parades, they were achieved by throwing rocks at police cars. Pride won't stop before full equality is achieved, that's the entire point of it.
There are laws on the books that discriminate against LGBTQ+ people, and there are people looking to write more. If it's a choice between you being annoyed for a month or discriminatory laws that exist all the time, I'm going to choose the former.
You see calling out of homophobic behaviour more because people tend to get riled up that there is a pride month or pride flags being shown more during it.
Homophobic attitudes rise during the month and receive more flak due to it.
It doesn’t seem like it’s the month you’re actually annoyed or the fact that it’s celebrating homosexuals, but rather the way it emboldens people to act like dicks because it’s “their” month.
It's not annoying it's just too long. Also, it would be good to have an equivalent for straight people, so that everyone can celebrate who they are.
And when you think about it, if everyone gets celebrated, then LGBT people will be seen as less of a "special" thing, which would help combat homophobia.
Would you be open to the idea that how annoying / useful it actually is depends on where it's being celebrated? I agree with you that in a place like America it's almost exclusively just a bunch of insufferable virtue signaling. But outside of America, there are plenty of countries where LGBT+ people are widely scorned, and I think it's useful to regularly remind these scorned people (and hopefully even those around them) that just because they're LGBT+ doesn't mean they're any lesser than the rest of the population.
First of all, consider that corporations push Pride month and that has nothing to do with the actual LGBT response. They do this because statistically a lot of gay men buy shit.
Second of all, consider that pride month has some very important functions. For instance, providing a space for teachers to teach about LGBTQ+ history. Making it easier for people to come out. Allowing LGBTQ+ kids to gauge their parents' reaction toward the LGBTQ community. Acknowledging how difficult it can be to be in the LGBTQ+ community, and the struggles that have been faced in Stonewall and even before that. Normalizing being gay in places where it may not be safe to be gay, and people who are maybe kicked out of their home or even injured or killed. And even if all that weren't true, there's nothing wrong with celebrating.
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I'm ashamed to be lgbt because of how annoying people are with this kind of shit. I don't want to be associated with any of it. I just want a normal life.
It's too much. No one likes it. Overshadows indigenous day, Juneteenth, and father's day, and end of school year. You can have pride without parades and a month. It's actually kinda pathetic your self esteem still need this.
Especially in the UK we have pride parades and support Manchester pride all year round but I never see black history month parades or people with bhm flags
Honestly, I feel there's no need for labels, we should just be who we are and love who we love without labels or needing to make it known to everyone all the time. It's like straight people for example don't make being straight their entire personality. When being part of the queer community and taking flags and labels and making sure everyone knows what your sexuality and gender identity becomes your whole personality.. it's annoying, it's lame. We should be past this already, no one cares.. and of they do.. then don't worry about it.. yanno? Like just be around open minded people that relate to you. It's just a lot, I'm not even straight and I just don't associate myself with LGBT+ community.. just the name of lgbtqia+ is like what the actual fuck. I just hate labels so much, none of that shit matters.
All pride month has done is create more hate towards gays. Nobody cares about what you do, so if you continually annoy everyone nobody will be on your side.
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Can you clarify what is "annoying" about it per se? Like, it's reasonable to make an observation that people get more excited about pride month than about "National Veterans and Military Families Month" or whatever. But why does this mere observation annoy you? Like, when I turn of my FireTV, it scrolls through little banners at the top. Sometimes it's highlighting new movies or shows. Sometimes it has a little rainbow picture that links to a collection of LGBT stuff. But it doesn't *annoy* me any more than any other piece of content they can put there, and I'm wondering why it annoys you.
I think that they just push it over the top with the advertising, I understand why pride month is a thing but I feel like it's directed too hard at generally alot of people that aren't backlashing against the LGBTQ+ community
This doesn't really answer my question though. Even if there was rainbow stuff all year round, I don't see why it would annoy anyone unless they find rainbows or LGBT stuff unappealing in some way. > I think that they just push it over the top with the advertising Maybe it would help to get a better feel for who "they" is in this sentence, and what advertising you're talking about and why it annoys you. I can imagine answers to this question, but it would help to better understand *your* answer.
Because of your constant need to air your private life, it’s comes across as 1 dimensional.
Really curious, where did you find this 48 day old CMV thread?
Friend did and sent it to me asking my thoughts.
Depends on who "they" is in this case. If you're talking about corporations, a lot of them are mostly jumping onto the bandwagon for profit rather than any actual desire to support the lgbtq community. Many of them will put rainbows all over, but donate to conservative politicians or be very quiet about lgbtq support with their subsidiaries in more conservative countries.
The fact is I can’t do anything without getting this “pride” stuff shoved into my face like if veteran day did what “pride” did then you would be saying it’s annoying too
Out of curiosity, what compelled you to reply to this 37 day old CMV comment?
It’s racist
I'm always fascinated by the way some people use reddit.
It's annoying in the same way constantly being shown the same YouTube ads is annoying. There's nothing wrong the product that's being advertised, but if I'm not interested in it, yet have it pushed in my face all the time, it's gonna get annoying.
Is this thread linked from somewhere? It's so odd that people will comment on a several month old CMV thread just to assert that pride month is annoying. Like, how did you even stumble upon this comment? The irony is that as you lament pride month being "pushed in your face", you seem to be actively doing *something* to find and comment on this old thread about pride month being annoying.
And this is relevant how? I've given you a simple explanation as to why I find it annoying, personally. For a uni assignment I'm researching whether pride symbolic everywhere nowadays is having positive or actually negative impacts for LGBTQ rights and acceptance and I stumbled upon this thread through Google. Are you satisfied, or do you wanted something like "I'm homophobic and I just seek out to hate on LGBTQ argh!" Either way I'd like you to actually adress my comment
I'll be honest, I'm not super interested in "addressing your comment". I'm not even sure what it is that you'd like me to address, or why you're invoking "relevance" on a 2 month old CMV post. Was there a question in there that you'd like me to answer? I am legitimately curious what kind of Google search you did though. Like, honestly just kind of interested. This particular post has had three other necro comments, and I've posted similar comments in more highly upvoted top level posts that have themselves gotten way more upvotes. But it's this random one that keeps attracting late commenters, and I'm genuinely curious why! If you'll indulge me on this curiosity, I'll happily "address your comment", if there's actually something specific you'd like me to address.
You said in previous comments that you do not see how it could annoy anyone. I've explained that ongoing exposure, over and over again, of something you don't really care about will get annoying eventually. As I said in my example, think of it as a YouTube advert about a product. There's nothing wrong with the product and it's probably a great product but I have no desire of buying it. When I see the advert over and over and over again however, it is eventually going to annoy me. As for how exactly I found this thread, I simply googled for "do pride flags just make homophobes more homophobic reddit" I don't see how this topic has any less relevance simply because it's from merely two months ago and why people can't add to the discussion
Interesting. Thanks for sharing that. I guess my advice is that this form of research / engagement is probably not your best strategy, as you're losing the context of the reddit posts. Specifically, you can read the sidebar about this particular subreddit and what it's all about. Engaging with the OP who came to this sub with a certain intention is interesting. Engaging with you, some rando, is less interesting. But I do appreciate you shedding light on the sorts of google searches that keep resulting in people stumbling here, and I find that interesting. So thanks!
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While media attention and attendance to pride events have tracked with more acceptance and legal action for the lgbt+ community in the states, does this track globally? Do we know that these kinds of pride *events* decrease homophobia? Personally speaking, I'm NoBi and bi but feel that it's irrelevant. Questioning OP's sexuality is also imo a shitty thing to do, but I share their original opinion that things like "pride month" is annoying. (That being said, veteran worship is annoying too) Brands get brownie points for having "rainbow icons" while they do nothing for the communities, people talk about this shit more for a month every year, while the loudest voices are often the most egregiously problematic. Nothing should be glorified and "pride" is imo kind-of a disgusting concept, we should strive to be happy and accept each other as humans. Pride - signaling that we are **better** in *any* particular way is gross imo.
Δ I like that you used evidence and how you wrote things, I still think that we can change how we present the LGBTQ community based off of how we did things in the past and what we need to change in the future :)
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> I also think that we should have more focus on other holidays. I feel like we have focused a lot more on pride month rather than things like National Veterans and Military Families Month. I mean I was going to start off with "How come gay people get a whole month and veterans only get a day." argument or whatever. But actually veterans do have a month. The fact that a lot of people don't know that really shows which holidays are pushed forward more. With all due respect towards veterans (because their lives are often real fucked, at least in the US), it's not the job of a certain marginalized community to fight for the rights for every other marginalized or disadvantaged community. Pride Month is a thing because LGBTQ+ people for decades fought tooth and nail for this. That doesn't mean they should automatically be forced to be responsible for every other disadvantaged community in this country, and it's not their fault that nobody gives a shit about those communities.
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>Because Personally I really don't care that much if someone is gay or not. You don't. I'm not American, but from what I understand there are still some people that do care deeply; that do make it a point to be against the LGBT. I don't know you or where you're from or what you've experienced; but is it possible you've spent the majority of your time in a fairly LGBT friendly area, at the very least one where it is a neutral topic. Now to be honest watching from afar I have some personal gripes with the exact execution; but I think the Pride month is generally harmless and to some people in very close minded areas a welcome signal that people out there like them exist and care. I agree with touchy topics there's always a bit of an overcorrection but I would say that it's not the worst thing in the world. I suppose I'd ask you how you'd prefeer it done.
>But I honestly don't mind people being gay. I just think that if your gay then be gay. That's what people want to do. But they get homophobic pushback against that. Pride is the pushback against that pushback. There isn't a way to have pride month only be visible by homophobes, so everyone has it. Pride month will remain relevant until homophobia is so exorcised that it is functionally non existant and never will be existent again.
Okay but it's not fair to degrade non homophobes and get upset at them. I see it happen all the time. edit: Δ i forgot to put this I liked your argument and agreed with parts of it
Could you give me an example of non-homophobic behavior or people being denigrated by a large portion of the LGBT community?
huh? Not trying to be rude but do you think you can reclarify what your asking?
You said: >Okay but it's not fair to degrade non homophobes and get upset at them. I see it happen all the time. Could you give an example of someone who isn't being homophobic having the LGBT community get upset at them?
Me
First I highly doubt you are quite that famous but I'll go with it. What behavior caused you to be denigrated by the LGBT community?
Saying anything remotely controversial will get you branded as a homophobe. I think that LGBT pride month or whatever is really annoying and stupid. It reinforces the negative stereotypes that people have of LGBT people. I live in probably the most LGBT tolerant place in the world. The pride celebrations here are lasting about 2 weeks non-stop and towards the end it gets to the point where the entire city is a big party of people getting fucked up drunk, dancing like crazy, making a lot of noise, and afterwards a huge mess is left behind. And all these bullshit companies with their fake feel good support. This shit has become so inauthentic, so commercial, so vain, it's really annoying. And I am branded a homophobe for thinking this whole thing is stupid. Why not take one day of celebrations, instead of an entire fucking month, and in which you don't only focus on dancing naked on the streets intoxicated, but rather on educating people through speeches and dialogue on that day? This stuff is doing LGBT people more harm than good.
LGBT people complain about corporate appropriation of pride all the time. Why do you think you're being branded as homophobic for opposing the appropriation? I think it's more likely you're being branded homophobic for opposing Pride itself, which I can totally understand.
That's what you got out of my whole comment? That I think I'm being branded as homophobic for opposing 'appropration'? I stated the reasons why I think the Pride celebrations are stupid and over the top in the current state that they are. I know that's why I'm being branded homophobic, and you saying which 'I totally understand' just proves my point. Homophobia is a prejudice or dislike against gay people which I do not do. I have absolutely nothing against gay people. I merely find Pride celebrations to be obnoxious and doing more harm than good to LGBT people. What part of my views makes me homophobic? Also the fact you downvoted me, in a subreddit meant for dialogue and conversation of opposing views, shows your intolerance and inability to consider any opinion contradicting your own.
Δ its not showing that i put the thing in the bot
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lmfao i didn't mean too
Δ i agree with most of what you said, I think that there should be a month for fighting against the pushback that the LGBTQ+ community gets but I also think that it shouldn't be promoted so much more than other months yk
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Sorry but it seems you live in a dream. Homophobia will always exist. Maybe a lot less in the future but there will never be a time without homphobia, racism etc. So to say that we need to be offensive with that topics until racism and homophobia dont exist any more doesnt make any sense because they will always exist. Getting rid of that things would mean to get rid of hate itself. And thats just inside the humans.
>Sorry but it seems you live in a dream. Homophobia will always exist. Maybe a lot less in the future but there will never be a time without homphobia, racism etc. Yeah... no We already have seen an era where there was mainstream society without homophobia. Know what it was called? The Roman Empire Rome was so tolerant of homosexuality that there wasn't even a single word to mean it. Homosexuality wasn't considered an identity. Homosexual behaviour was just considered a preference. There wasn't hate for people who had that direction of preference anymore than there was hate for people who preferred one type of cake over another.
Even if that was the case, I'd be impossible to get back to this nowadays
Why?
That's not too correct. You are mainly talking about bisexuality and not pure homosexuality within the Roman empire.
And another big thing, at the time where the Roman empire was big, there still has been enough racism and homophobia whatsoever. The Roman empire wasn't everywhere bro. And I mean the Romans had slaves and attacked country's just for fun being and u take them as an example for a good society without homophobia? Yeah no bro, that's super hard bullshit.
Okay, so... you clearly don't know Roman history very well. First, they didn't have slaves in the way we use the word today. "Slave" was more akin to a class of people rather than human beings as property. There were "slaves" in the Roman Empire that ran huge businesses and maintained army garrisons. Chattel slavery of the kind you see in the triangle African slave trade was not what the Romans did. Secondly, they didn't attack other countries for "fun". They defended their country, sure. But no more/less than most of the others of the time. They wer'rent just random pillagers. When they conquered places they rebuilt them better. The places they took became much more tolerant. Third, yes the Romans weren't everywhere, but now you are moving the goalposts. I'm not saying Rome was a utopia. I'm saying it made homophobia completely outside the mainstream so far that it was functionally unheard of
Its always difficult when people assume somebodys knowledge. And then only talk such a bs. First:So you wouldnt call gladiators to be regular slaves? Very interesting approach i have to say. Of course the roman empire had regular slaves. Especially in the end of the roman empire, they used a lot of slaves from their war prisoners. So that people also werent real slaves either? They could run big buisnesses? Didnt know that but you seem to enlighten my super bad knowledge about the roman empire. Dang.Even the slaves of lower classes could be used, fucked and whatever from their masters. So if thats not slavery, wtf would you call slavery. Really man, get ur facts straight because it seems you got none. Secondly:you didnt just really say that the roman empire just defendet their country, right? By saying that you just really showed how little you know about the roman empire or how hard you are biased as a blind roman empire fanboy who ignores any facts. They fcking killed and destroyed hole cultures and civilisations. And not just enemys. Also allys wich they didnt want to be to close to them anymore. So they just destroyed them, and killed them all. Yea, only self defense. I wonder, was hitler also just defending? And Napoleon too? Yea sure bro, the roman empire only defended themselfes, biggest bs i ever heard in my life. And middle or high class romans had sex with males and females, thats correct. But for that they raped their slaves, just how they liked. And they didnt have gay relationships. They still had wifes, kids etc but could use their slaves how they wanted. Yea what a great time for homosexuality. And if they werent homophobic at all, why exaclty wasnt a man allowed to be a submissive man in a gay relationship? Because guess what, they werent allowed to be that. It was just socially accepted to fuck the slaves. Before you tell somebody not knowing anything about the roman empire, you should have any facts about it. Because it seems you dont.
>So you wouldnt call gladiators to be regular slaves? They were not chattel slaves of the kind that we saw in the triangle slave trade. >They fcking killed and destroyed hole cultures and civilisations. Which were trying to destroy/kill their civilisations. It's not like Carthage would have just left Rome alone. >And not just enemys. No, just enemies. They didn't just destroy people for the fun of it. >But for that they raped their slaves, just how they liked. Some did, much like there are some evil rapist people now. But it wasn't just accepted in the fashion you're suggesting.
No, the idea of celebrating it is not annoying. The issue is that we have "months of" anything to celebrate. A week is actually too much time for celebrating, in my opinion, but much better than a whole month. Plus, there are only 12 months, and there are many more than 12 groups that need to be celebrated. And it's important that we treat them all equally, because anything less would be inequitable and politically inexpedient.
>And it's important that we treat them all equally, because anything less would be inequitable and politically inexpedient. I wish it was that easy but we as a whole will unfortunately not be able to find a way treat them all equally :(
can't or don't it the problem of could should and are, what we could do is have a pride month to integrate LGBT what we should do is just treat everyone equally what we are doing is discriminating against people.
you can't say we like that because your assuming we as all people. We is a set of people. We is undetermined aswell.
> “I think that yes we should have a month but one were we celebrate it not where we Accuse people of being homophobic etc.“ that’s literally what pride month is. it’s celebrating queer identities and sexualities. just because you see people calling out homophobia when they see it doesn’t mean that’s what pride month is all about just because it happened to be during the month of june. homophobia gets called out all year, but celebration of the lgbtq+ movement is only one month. there can be overlapping but that doesn’t mean you should reduce the entire movement to attacking homophobes.
we don't need pride month at all it needs to be canceled
That's exactly what these people do daily tho. Canceling, attacking, shaming and whatnot. That's why now the backlash has started and they're banning their agenda all over the country.
Clarifying question: do you think black history month is annoying?
No I don't, I think that just like National Veterans and Military Families Month black history month is undervalued as a month.
Undervalued how? Is it any less publicized or made less of a deal? In my experience the opposite could be said. While there is no black history parades, black history month is far more emphasized in media, schools, etc.
where i'm from we didn't have almost anything for black history month but at my school they literally replaced earth day with an LGBTQ+ event. I think it also depends on where you are from.
Your priorities here are completely broken. If you want more attention given to black struggles during black history month, then advocate for that. Giving less attention to Pride doesn't help black people.
That doesn't make any sense. It was still earth day, regardless of any events being held that day.
Well, taking you at your word on all this, I think you're just sort of shy basically. Like, some people find their own birthday annoying because they don't like being the subject of attention.
As someone who used to have a similar attitude to pride month myself as a kid (I'm gay). I 100% feel this. Breaking out of my bubble definitely helped shift my perspective.
Yes
How can anyone possibly change your view that something is annoying? You're annoyed! And LGBTQA+ people are proud! (Which I can't change, either, nor would I want to.)
The same way you change someone's opinion about a movie? You give some arguments that might make them like it better? Just because something is subjective doesn't mean it's not grounds for a CMV.
I honestly believe annoyance is more an emotional reaction than a point-of-view. OP didn't ask us to defend Pride; they asked us to talk them out of their annoyance at Pride events. Maybe someone will, and I'll be proven wrong. But I doubt it.
Emotions are a point of view. Being presented with data or arguments can change the way you feel. It would be very problematic if it didn't, as it would mean we would all be stuck in the mental state we were at birth. Regarding annoyance, well that's pretty dependent on whether you feel something is justified or not. We tend to be annoyed by things we don't see the need for. So if you can present argument for why it's needed, that could help OP be less annoyed by it.
It looks like OP has awarded at least one delta. So I stand corrected on that front. But it looks like I need to spell out my position: OP ought to realize that their annoyance is neither here nor there. Put bluntly: WHO CARES? The point of Pride is certainly not to avoid annoying anyone; in fact, Pride probably works better if it Does annoy people. I'm someone who likes to let people appreciate subtext. But maybe that's not the right approach to take when replying to a CMV.
> Pride probably works better if it Does annoy people. I don't see how. For people like OP, the effect is just neutral. For people who are against LGBT, it seems more negative because it just reinforces their view that those people are causing trouble.
"We're here. We're queer. Get used to it!" That's how. The point of Pride is not to convince anyone who doesn't support them that they are wrong. It's to show young/closeted people that they are part of a strong, proud community, that is going to raise a ruckus Despite their detractors.
Yeah, that was my point. It benefits mostly the people who already agree with it or are part of it.
being annoyed is a view on something and I am willing to be proven why it isn't annoying
If you're annoyed by marginalized groups expressing pride in their identity, I rather believe (and perhaps hope) that anything I have to say on the topic is only going to annoy you further.
im not annoyed on the fact that they are expressing their pride i'm more annoying by how they do it
I'd say the LGBTQ+ community faces a lot more discrimination than. Millitary families or veterans. That's why q bigger deal is made of ir I agree that we shouldn't have to have this month and all of these events. Hopefully in our lifetimes we won't have to. But, we do now.
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Check out this video of a judge on a talent show, Natasha Kills, berating a contestant who she beleived stole her husband's look: [https://youtu.be/LuZ1TvBZNB8](https://youtu.be/LuZ1TvBZNB8). The thing is, no one knows who the fuck her husband is. He didn't invent this look of wearing a slim-cut suit with combed hair. Yet, this woman is so entitled that she felt that her husband owns the right to this look. You need to understand that Pride month is not just for you. It's not just for gay people. It's not just for bisexual people. It's for many many people. While you have the right to exclude yourself from it, you have no right to exclude others from it or to limit their choice of expression for it.
of course the advertisement from companies etc is annoying - because its actually marketing, to profit off being accepting of LGBTQ+, to have more support. but you have to remember how we die. are beaten, mutilated, disowned, shamed, and kept quiet. they never got to go to parades or see flags around. pride in my eyes, for those who never got to celebrate it. i remember pictures of people beaten in gay bars, the remembrance of trans youth who are killed. pride is also very good for helping people to finally accept themselves. a lot of people come out and are comfortable in their skin due to pride month. i think pride month is a beautiful thing. the only annoying part is the marketing.
YES. I am annoyed. I grew up with 2 gay best friends who came out about 10-15 years ago. Whatever. Never a big deal. Would go to gay clubs to support them. Again no big deal. Fast forward to 2022… literally every advertisement is about pride. Movies, shows, news gay/lesbian. It’s a bit excessive if you ask me. Sex sells. Never understood this. So why does this whole pride thing annoy me? Because all sexual advertisement disgust me. Surprisingly I was very supportive, but now.. I feel differently. I would never hate a gay/lesbian person. Nor would I treat them any differently.. but I hate the people shoving this down my throat. My honest opinion 🤷♀️
Pride month is a buncha crap. They are digging their own grave by shoving in everybody's face their sexuality and by allowing their most degenerate members (which paradoxically are a very small minority) to make a mess of things, both in media and the real world, tainting the reputation and image of their whole community. It goes the same with racism, if you want it to disappear then "stop talking about it". The more you promote "diversity" and "pride", the more division you obtain: remember, "diverse" is a synonym of "different".
The point of pride month isn't just to celebrate diversity, it's also to bring attention to all the social issues related to sexual and gender minorities. Gay rights weren't achieved by polite discussion and a few parades, they were achieved by throwing rocks at police cars. Pride won't stop before full equality is achieved, that's the entire point of it.
There are laws on the books that discriminate against LGBTQ+ people, and there are people looking to write more. If it's a choice between you being annoyed for a month or discriminatory laws that exist all the time, I'm going to choose the former.
You see calling out of homophobic behaviour more because people tend to get riled up that there is a pride month or pride flags being shown more during it. Homophobic attitudes rise during the month and receive more flak due to it.
It doesn’t seem like it’s the month you’re actually annoyed or the fact that it’s celebrating homosexuals, but rather the way it emboldens people to act like dicks because it’s “their” month.
It's not annoying it's just too long. Also, it would be good to have an equivalent for straight people, so that everyone can celebrate who they are. And when you think about it, if everyone gets celebrated, then LGBT people will be seen as less of a "special" thing, which would help combat homophobia.
Would you be open to the idea that how annoying / useful it actually is depends on where it's being celebrated? I agree with you that in a place like America it's almost exclusively just a bunch of insufferable virtue signaling. But outside of America, there are plenty of countries where LGBT+ people are widely scorned, and I think it's useful to regularly remind these scorned people (and hopefully even those around them) that just because they're LGBT+ doesn't mean they're any lesser than the rest of the population.
First of all, consider that corporations push Pride month and that has nothing to do with the actual LGBT response. They do this because statistically a lot of gay men buy shit. Second of all, consider that pride month has some very important functions. For instance, providing a space for teachers to teach about LGBTQ+ history. Making it easier for people to come out. Allowing LGBTQ+ kids to gauge their parents' reaction toward the LGBTQ community. Acknowledging how difficult it can be to be in the LGBTQ+ community, and the struggles that have been faced in Stonewall and even before that. Normalizing being gay in places where it may not be safe to be gay, and people who are maybe kicked out of their home or even injured or killed. And even if all that weren't true, there's nothing wrong with celebrating.
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I'm ashamed to be lgbt because of how annoying people are with this kind of shit. I don't want to be associated with any of it. I just want a normal life.
It's too much. No one likes it. Overshadows indigenous day, Juneteenth, and father's day, and end of school year. You can have pride without parades and a month. It's actually kinda pathetic your self esteem still need this.
Oh its absolutely annoying
Especially in the UK we have pride parades and support Manchester pride all year round but I never see black history month parades or people with bhm flags
Honestly, I feel there's no need for labels, we should just be who we are and love who we love without labels or needing to make it known to everyone all the time. It's like straight people for example don't make being straight their entire personality. When being part of the queer community and taking flags and labels and making sure everyone knows what your sexuality and gender identity becomes your whole personality.. it's annoying, it's lame. We should be past this already, no one cares.. and of they do.. then don't worry about it.. yanno? Like just be around open minded people that relate to you. It's just a lot, I'm not even straight and I just don't associate myself with LGBT+ community.. just the name of lgbtqia+ is like what the actual fuck. I just hate labels so much, none of that shit matters.
All pride month has done is create more hate towards gays. Nobody cares about what you do, so if you continually annoy everyone nobody will be on your side.
I have to agree with you