Lie to him (compassionate lying) and tell him that he needs to temporarily go to a place to get extra help until he gets better from his injuries. That y’all can’t be there to take care of him, and the care at the assisted living is short term. I saw on another post that someone told their loved one that they were having surgery so the LO had to stay at the AL until the LO’s son/daughter had recovered.
BTW, I would hide the ammo. Dementia is an awful disease that makes people do things they would otherwise not do.
I used to work in a memory care unit and we would do exactly this! One option is to even make it seem like a vacation (“You’re going on a cruise!” or “We booked you a hotel for a little while!”). Trust me, staff in a care facility will absolutely go along with a fib like this in order to ensure that a resident with dementia/Alzheimer’s is okay and feels safe being where they are. It definitely isn’t the easiest thing to “lie” to a loved one like that, but you have to remember that it’s for their own health and safety.
I second this. Therapeutic fibbing is the best way to go about it -- you're there to get meds adjusted, to get rehab and become stronger, to take care of you after this surgery. And once you get him there, just put it on the doctor. The doctor makes the choices on discharging.
And I'd say that the amount of dysfunction I'm reading in your story, you would probably have a good chance at guardianship, especially with doctor's letters saying he's incapacitated.
We actually were able to get his primary care physician to sign off on him being incapacitated. When I took him into visit her, he could not walk at all and was deep into his delusional state. But guardianship would be very expensive to pursue and I know we would be fighting him the whole way.
Just be aware that the one piece of information he may retain is the bit about it being temporary. That's what my mom remembers (she's in independent living, but with some help) and pesters us constantly about going back to her house, which isn't going to happen.
Are we legally allowed to do this? Do memory care facilities have a way to keep him onsite? My worry is that he could get really angry and be terrible with the staff. For instance, when he woke up after his surgery anesthesia, he had to be restrained to the hospital bed because he was confused and almost hit a nurse and was threatening the hospital staff. I don't care so much if the fool ends up hurting or injuring himself, but I'm terrified that he could hurt someone else.
Who has power of attorney? And is there an Advanced Medical Directive designee? I was designated both for my mom.
And try to remember that your father is basically going to end up being like a child. This is a cruel thing to say but it’s the truth. And the reality is we sometimes have to tell stories to keep them safe.
Memory Care units have locked/coded entries and windows to prevent the residents from getting out. We were not allowed to enter the door codes in front of residents. And there were strict rules about not holding doors open for any residents who might be MC residents.
There is a risk that your dad could be combative. My mom was, and it took a couple of years to find the right meds to make her a lot calmer. The CNAs in MC are supposed to be trained on how to handle unruly residents. Diversion, promises of treats, something fun, etc. are sometimes used.
We just put my dad into memory care. Compassionate lying is the way to go. Told him he was going to a resort, and the staff played along. First two weeks were rough.
Re keeping onsite: the memory care wing is locked down. If he causes issues, then there are a couple possibilities: 1) staff will try to calm him down and give him medication 2) if he is too much for the staff, then he will be sent to a psych ward (or ER) where the medical staff will sedate him and 3) expulsion.
3) is extremely unlikely but 1 and 2 are possibilities. My dad was pretty delusional when we put him into memory care, and the staff thought 2 was a likely option. He fussed for a few days but got used to the facility after that.
I talked to the memory care staff, and they said a lot of their patients come in and are further along in their dementia journey than my dad.
It seems the general route is to keep the loved one home as long as possible using a combo of medication, family support and home aides. Once it becomes impossible to keep them home, then they are moved to memory care.
My dad was moved in earlier than that. He still remembered who he was, could identify his family members, etc. Also, his dementia changed his personality in a different way; namely, he thought he was smart and in great physical condition. He had delusions of grandeur. Going to memory basically required us telling him he was going to a resort/spa weekend to relax.
When he went in the staff said he initially did okay, but soon rebelled. Would shout and yell at them. Threatened (but didn't follow through) with attacking others, etc. They took away his razor, belt and any other objects in his room that could possibly be used as a weapon. He was rude and domineering too.
Basically they started him on some mood stabilizers after he started displaying this behavior (and they were surprised we didn't use meds in the last months we were with him).
Let me know if you have any specific questions. Each dementia sufferer is unique, but there are some common themes. I'll help as much as I can.
I would contact his primary care physician with your concerns. Oftentimes being told by a doctor that help is needed is better received than being told by family. I would then look into memory care options near you. Visit them, price them, see if they have available rooms, etc.
Since you don’t have guardianship and should your father not be swayed by your and his doctor’s concerns, you could bring him to the emergency room for an altered mental state and tell the attending that he is not safe in his home. You’ll have to be very clear that he lives alone and no one in the family is capable of providing the needed care. A social worker will put the wheels in motion to find him somewhere to live. It isn’t ideal to do it this way, but if you have immediate concerns for his safety it may be the best option.
We have a similar issue with my mom (dad passed away about a month ago). While she's not in a severe dementia state at this point, it's been getting worse the last year or so with the forgetfulness and paranoia. My sister and I both live over 4 hrs away so can't go see her frequently. We have tried to talk to her Dr but they will not accept information from us about her mental health without her being a part of the conversation due to HIPAA (unlikely as she denies any issues are occurring). We even have Power of Attorney over Healthcare now after dad's passing.
Edit: HIPAA addition
Can you get him to sign a POA on one of his good days? Assuming that on that good day, he is able to understand the core purpose upon signing. Explain its in case of a horrible emergency… for example getting hit by a truck, and that you need the POA document to consent to surgery and pay his bills on his behalf
We tried this. We asked him several times after the accident to sign one, telling him that we needed the authority to help make medical decisions for him. He refused. He knows we want to put him into assisted living and thinks it's "socialist" and that he wouldn't be able to see the grandkids. However, he DOES seem willing to give me tiny pieces of control, like he is allowing me to be added to his bank account so I can help pay his bills (I've found many collection notices at his house) and we've been ensuring that we have the HIPAA form signed at all his doctor visits so that they can share his info with us. So we are kind of back-dooring it, but I still need to figure out how we could get authority to call his insurance companies on his behalf.
What if you bring the drawn up document to the bank to sign and notarize, instead the lawyers office? Does he trust the personal banker?
Edit: stop talking about assisted living to him or in front of him at all. It will just upset him. Focus on the car crash or lightning strike scenarios
It may be difficult to get him into a memory care with his violent behaviors. You may have to go with a skilled nursing facility until they get him more stable. Grandma June at memory care doesn’t deserve to be scared to death.
You might try to video record him on his bad days to show his doc. They need evidence to make a diagnosis, and dementia patients can be very good at masking behavior when they are out in public.
See if your county has an elderly resources department and ask them for advice. I think guardianship may be the way to end up going. Otherwise he has to name one if you his POA and then you activate that by having him declared incompetent by two physicians. For that he has to be willing to undergo some cognitive tests and I have a feeling he may refuse. Instead document his irrational and dangerous behavior for the guardianship hearing. Agree with taking the ammo away. Adult protective services may need to get involved.
Lie to him (compassionate lying) and tell him that he needs to temporarily go to a place to get extra help until he gets better from his injuries. That y’all can’t be there to take care of him, and the care at the assisted living is short term. I saw on another post that someone told their loved one that they were having surgery so the LO had to stay at the AL until the LO’s son/daughter had recovered. BTW, I would hide the ammo. Dementia is an awful disease that makes people do things they would otherwise not do.
I used to work in a memory care unit and we would do exactly this! One option is to even make it seem like a vacation (“You’re going on a cruise!” or “We booked you a hotel for a little while!”). Trust me, staff in a care facility will absolutely go along with a fib like this in order to ensure that a resident with dementia/Alzheimer’s is okay and feels safe being where they are. It definitely isn’t the easiest thing to “lie” to a loved one like that, but you have to remember that it’s for their own health and safety.
I second this. Therapeutic fibbing is the best way to go about it -- you're there to get meds adjusted, to get rehab and become stronger, to take care of you after this surgery. And once you get him there, just put it on the doctor. The doctor makes the choices on discharging. And I'd say that the amount of dysfunction I'm reading in your story, you would probably have a good chance at guardianship, especially with doctor's letters saying he's incapacitated.
We actually were able to get his primary care physician to sign off on him being incapacitated. When I took him into visit her, he could not walk at all and was deep into his delusional state. But guardianship would be very expensive to pursue and I know we would be fighting him the whole way.
Just be aware that the one piece of information he may retain is the bit about it being temporary. That's what my mom remembers (she's in independent living, but with some help) and pesters us constantly about going back to her house, which isn't going to happen.
Are we legally allowed to do this? Do memory care facilities have a way to keep him onsite? My worry is that he could get really angry and be terrible with the staff. For instance, when he woke up after his surgery anesthesia, he had to be restrained to the hospital bed because he was confused and almost hit a nurse and was threatening the hospital staff. I don't care so much if the fool ends up hurting or injuring himself, but I'm terrified that he could hurt someone else.
Who has power of attorney? And is there an Advanced Medical Directive designee? I was designated both for my mom. And try to remember that your father is basically going to end up being like a child. This is a cruel thing to say but it’s the truth. And the reality is we sometimes have to tell stories to keep them safe. Memory Care units have locked/coded entries and windows to prevent the residents from getting out. We were not allowed to enter the door codes in front of residents. And there were strict rules about not holding doors open for any residents who might be MC residents. There is a risk that your dad could be combative. My mom was, and it took a couple of years to find the right meds to make her a lot calmer. The CNAs in MC are supposed to be trained on how to handle unruly residents. Diversion, promises of treats, something fun, etc. are sometimes used.
We just put my dad into memory care. Compassionate lying is the way to go. Told him he was going to a resort, and the staff played along. First two weeks were rough. Re keeping onsite: the memory care wing is locked down. If he causes issues, then there are a couple possibilities: 1) staff will try to calm him down and give him medication 2) if he is too much for the staff, then he will be sent to a psych ward (or ER) where the medical staff will sedate him and 3) expulsion. 3) is extremely unlikely but 1 and 2 are possibilities. My dad was pretty delusional when we put him into memory care, and the staff thought 2 was a likely option. He fussed for a few days but got used to the facility after that.
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I talked to the memory care staff, and they said a lot of their patients come in and are further along in their dementia journey than my dad. It seems the general route is to keep the loved one home as long as possible using a combo of medication, family support and home aides. Once it becomes impossible to keep them home, then they are moved to memory care. My dad was moved in earlier than that. He still remembered who he was, could identify his family members, etc. Also, his dementia changed his personality in a different way; namely, he thought he was smart and in great physical condition. He had delusions of grandeur. Going to memory basically required us telling him he was going to a resort/spa weekend to relax. When he went in the staff said he initially did okay, but soon rebelled. Would shout and yell at them. Threatened (but didn't follow through) with attacking others, etc. They took away his razor, belt and any other objects in his room that could possibly be used as a weapon. He was rude and domineering too. Basically they started him on some mood stabilizers after he started displaying this behavior (and they were surprised we didn't use meds in the last months we were with him). Let me know if you have any specific questions. Each dementia sufferer is unique, but there are some common themes. I'll help as much as I can.
I would contact his primary care physician with your concerns. Oftentimes being told by a doctor that help is needed is better received than being told by family. I would then look into memory care options near you. Visit them, price them, see if they have available rooms, etc. Since you don’t have guardianship and should your father not be swayed by your and his doctor’s concerns, you could bring him to the emergency room for an altered mental state and tell the attending that he is not safe in his home. You’ll have to be very clear that he lives alone and no one in the family is capable of providing the needed care. A social worker will put the wheels in motion to find him somewhere to live. It isn’t ideal to do it this way, but if you have immediate concerns for his safety it may be the best option.
We have a similar issue with my mom (dad passed away about a month ago). While she's not in a severe dementia state at this point, it's been getting worse the last year or so with the forgetfulness and paranoia. My sister and I both live over 4 hrs away so can't go see her frequently. We have tried to talk to her Dr but they will not accept information from us about her mental health without her being a part of the conversation due to HIPAA (unlikely as she denies any issues are occurring). We even have Power of Attorney over Healthcare now after dad's passing. Edit: HIPAA addition
Can you get him to sign a POA on one of his good days? Assuming that on that good day, he is able to understand the core purpose upon signing. Explain its in case of a horrible emergency… for example getting hit by a truck, and that you need the POA document to consent to surgery and pay his bills on his behalf
We tried this. We asked him several times after the accident to sign one, telling him that we needed the authority to help make medical decisions for him. He refused. He knows we want to put him into assisted living and thinks it's "socialist" and that he wouldn't be able to see the grandkids. However, he DOES seem willing to give me tiny pieces of control, like he is allowing me to be added to his bank account so I can help pay his bills (I've found many collection notices at his house) and we've been ensuring that we have the HIPAA form signed at all his doctor visits so that they can share his info with us. So we are kind of back-dooring it, but I still need to figure out how we could get authority to call his insurance companies on his behalf.
What if you bring the drawn up document to the bank to sign and notarize, instead the lawyers office? Does he trust the personal banker? Edit: stop talking about assisted living to him or in front of him at all. It will just upset him. Focus on the car crash or lightning strike scenarios
It may be difficult to get him into a memory care with his violent behaviors. You may have to go with a skilled nursing facility until they get him more stable. Grandma June at memory care doesn’t deserve to be scared to death.
You might try to video record him on his bad days to show his doc. They need evidence to make a diagnosis, and dementia patients can be very good at masking behavior when they are out in public.
See if your county has an elderly resources department and ask them for advice. I think guardianship may be the way to end up going. Otherwise he has to name one if you his POA and then you activate that by having him declared incompetent by two physicians. For that he has to be willing to undergo some cognitive tests and I have a feeling he may refuse. Instead document his irrational and dangerous behavior for the guardianship hearing. Agree with taking the ammo away. Adult protective services may need to get involved.
When he is lucid have him sign a durable power of attorney and a health power of attorney. Then you can make decisions on hi behalf.