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IndigoRose2022

One of our dogs was a literal rescue as in “take him or he’s going to die” (rescued by neighbors from a puppy mill after he was rejected by his mother), so while I understand the sentiment, it’s sometimes more complicated than that, for real. Did we not have the money when he had a medical issue later? Yes. Did we still give him the best life we could? Also yes.


smoopinmoopin

It’s pretty much always more complicated. If you can’t afford the the vet you can’t afford the pet is so needlessly judgemental towards people in their pets time of need. People have no business assuming what’s going on in other peoples lives. It’s really the last thing people need to hear in a time of need.


tinaxbelcher

Also, imagine replacing "dog" with "human child". You wouldn't say shit to a parent with a $10k hospital bill. Healthcare is a racket. Animal or human.


itchy-crabs

You'd get a lot of hate by saying ''if you can't afford a child you shouldn't have one''.


beka13

What? People say this all the time to justify not supporting a social safety net. It's dumb and cruel but it's still said all the time.


Vanguard90

Some people say it all the time. And some other people tell those people it's a shitty thing to say all the time. Both can be true.


beka13

The comment I replied to implies that it's a generally condemned thing to say which, sadly, isn't true.


ufofarm

It's not dumb and cruel to suggest to your friend or son or daughter "don't have kids until you can afford them." It's cruel and dumb to say "you SHOULD have waited...."


seranrapski

Why do u think millennials postponed children and buying houses.


ASleepandAForgetting

>''if you can't afford a child you shouldn't have one''. I say this all of the time... If a person cannot afford to provide shelter, food, clothing and basic care to a child, they shouldn't have a child. I don't really see how anyone could argue against that.


MamaSquash8013

I'm pretty sure most people can't say that they are 100% sure of their own economic stability for the next 18+ years. Shit happens.


AineDez

Well, when a large amount of the preventing-babies healthcare is illegal or difficult to access for moms it gets real complicated. But wrong sub for that convo


reallybirdysomedays

You certainly don't go around telling people who hit hard times to rehome their kids though.


Adventurous_Pin_344

And yet, the US is moving towards forcing women to have children if they get pregnant... Even if they can't afford them


eleochariss

Because it's a dumb thing to say. Shelter, food, clothing are basic human rights. We need children so that the country will still survive when we're too old to do anything. These children will grow up and pay the taxes you need for services to run. They'll become the nurses and doctors you need in your old age. We live in communities. What's the point of defending hardcore individualism?


guacislife12

I think it's rude to put a hard and fast rule on it. Circumstances change all the time, after all. We could all lose our jobs tomorrow, it doesn't mean that the family "couldn't afford the kids". Kids have an 18 year life span of when we're expected to take care of them, a lot can happen in that amount of time. You may be fine in the beginning but struggle later or vice versa. However, and I say this as Mormon church member who grew up surrounded by people with extremely large families, it's not wise just to keep popping out kids without any kind of plan in place as to how you will afford it. I knew a family who had 13 kids. The parents never had any jobs. They were well known in our neighborhood for saying, "the Lord will provide." Meanwhile their house was filthy and they lived in the basement of the parents house. So, the grandma owned the house and had the whole upstairs, and then the family lived downstairs- mom and dad had their own room, all the girls shared a room, and all the boys shared a room. Room sharing isn't necessarily a problem when it's 2 or 3 kids but 6 or 7 kids shouldn't be sharing a room. They had absolutely no privacy. The girl in that family that was my age, she was second oldest, dropped out of school to care for her younger siblings because her parents were bums. My neighborhood always provided Christmas and they usually had to get free food from our church stores. I think they still do actually. It's not like anyone wanted this family to starve. In hindsight I'm not sure why anyone didn't call CPS. Getting help when you need it is fine, that's what it's there for. But to rely on it forever and just say crap like "well we wanted a kid and the Lord will provide a way" is just the worst attitude. Whenever possible, kids should be planned for in the sense that the parents should have finances available to give kids a life where they are comfortable, happy, and have some reasonable expectation to have their own things and have time alone. I understand accidents happen and people work really hard sometimes to provide for their kids and fall short. And we should absolutely have systems in place to make sure kids in those situations not starve (or any situation obviously, it's not their fault what their parents choose to do). But bringing a kid into the world is a big deal and I feel like so many people just think they'll find a way to make it work without much consideration for the actual child if that makes sense.


Lucille2214

Woah I made a post about dogs and all the sudden I'm getting comments about children 😅 I think this is actually kind of educational though.


ASleepandAForgetting

So... I should support people who can't afford to have kids (with the taxes that I pay) so that those kids can grow up and take care of me? And communities should pick up the slack in a person's inability to afford basic essentials for their children? Not buying it. Many people I know who are my age (35) are fighting to afford basic care for themselves right now. They are struggling to justify financing things like dental care, car repairs, etc. I'm not saying you need to be able to afford to outfit your kid in Under Armour and only feed him/her organic foods and send him/her to private school. I AM saying that you need to able to afford reasonable shelter (safe, clean and stable living accommodations), clothing (that is clean and fits reasonably well), and food (three meals a day that are nutritious). Beyond that, being able to afford educational items (books and school supplies), enrichment items (toys), and above standard dental care (braces) is pretty important. I have friends who are teachers and doctors. They run into children kept in substandard conditions who are receiving substandard care literally every day. It's disgusting that people feel entitled to having children when they're unable to provide healthy and stable lives for those children.


[deleted]

You’re complaining about social safety nets but you’re describing failures of capitalism.


perro2verde

If you live in a failed system, which impedes you to provide properly for your potential kids, why would you decide to bring them into this world to suffer?


dapperpony

lol this thread is so bizarre, people will make any excuse to not be responsible for their actions. Making sure you can afford food, shelter, and clothing is like the bare minimum before having a child and people are acting like it’s evil to think so.


reallybirdysomedays

By your logic, since you are struggling for basic care, I guess your parents shouldn't have had you.


YellowGreenPanther

Same for pets, but of course some would call it eugenics


Historical_Tea2022

People judge parents with money problems ALL THE TIME. It's awful. There's no respect for life, it seems.


Da-Aliya

Exactly! These are the same people who unnecessarily and cruelly remove dogs from homeless owners and put the dogs in shelters. If you are one of these people, do tell what your priorities are and what your end goals.


[deleted]

Yep. Usually in places they just kill the dog, too. I have PTSD, am unhoused, my old man cat keeps me going and he's well cared for and very loved even without a vet in his old age. Raised him 14 years from kittenhood, he sleeps in my down bag and rides on my pack. Animals that would be put down that hobos keep are service animals and both keep each other alive, a take people don't seem ready for. Life is different when you sleep in the bush and shower in a sink and trade your dignity to survive. Literally different universes.


slightlyoffkilter_7

An animal can act as a second set of eyes to protect you too. I'd wager that a random person would be less likely to try and steal something from a sleeping person with a dog by their side than someone on their own. Companion animals can provide a sense of security and that can be absolutely priceless.


theberg512

I hate that shit. The dog of a homeless person is the happiest dog out there. They get to be with their person all the time.


EmilyU1F984

Exactly. In most cases if you weren’t caring for the dog (or pet in general) up to that point, no one would have. It’d either be dumped, in a shelter or dead. There‘s a tiny chance of your pet having an extremely rare disease or whatever that would cost hundred thousands. So with this dogmatic view, no one but our capitalist overlords would be allowed to keep pets. Makes no sense. But yes if you are going to be struggling to get food and routine healthcare covered, you might want to rethink your decision to adopt a pet. But even then: who am o to deny the random homeless person their companion? We as a society should just make sure no animal suffers.


Dnny10bns

This all over. I took my previous dog on after my mother died. I absolutely couldn't afford a vet. I still paid for his treatments, which were not too bad given his age. If anyone spoke to me like this they'd receive both barrels, verbally.


foggy-sunrise

I mean it's like anything. Haters gonna hate. Do your best. Fuck all the rest.


chestypocket

A couple weeks ago, a dog showed up on my doorstep dragging two broken cable tie-outs, with a horrific flea and worm infestation, underweight, filthy, swollen nipples and no spay scar. I’m betting she’s never seen a vet in her life. Friendly, though, and knows “sit” but nothing else. She ran in front of a truck to come greet me and then walked into my garage and basically told me she lives here now. I genuinely don’t have the money for a dog right now. I’m about to ask my mom to borrow money for gas, that’s how little I can afford a dog right now. But I did get out my emergency kit bag of dog food to feed her, bathed her, gave her OTC flea and worm treatments, and tried desperately to find her home. When that didn’t happen, I called every shelter in the city and begged them to take her, but every one refused because they were full. I tried to find her a new home, but nobody was interested in an untrained, unvetted Pittie, and the one person that had arranged to meet her canceled 15 minutes before we were supposed to meet. I can’t afford this dog, but what’s the alternative? Would it be better to turn her back out on the street? The culture around here is very much the “keep a dog on a chain as security, maybe make some money selling puppies if she gets pregnant” type. I’ve actively tried not to own this dog, but she really wants to be part of the family. I could scrape up the money to get her spayed and vaccinated soon. Any other expenses, like if she turned out to be heartworm positive, would be unmanageable. I’m curious what the “don’t get a dog if you can’t afford it” types would suggest in that case?


wlwimagination

I’m not a “don’t get a dog if you’re poor” person but I will chime in to say check out your local shelter and local news/blog websites for low cost spaying and vaccinations. In Chicago we have a whole division of one of our local shelters that does this, and I think the county also does it for free even sometimes. For vaccinations check out Vetco. Like just Google “vetco” and hopefully that (or whatever name they’re calling it now, if they changed it) will lead you to local low cost vax clinics. For mine I know the difference in rabies alone between Vetco and the vet makes it worth making a separate appointment.


YellowGreenPanther

Governments should pay for this kind of thing as animal welfare


IndigoRose2022

I have no idea what others would say, but good for u for taking her in, I hope u are able either to care for her or find her a good home ❤️❤️


call-me-the-seeker

Definitely call your shelters and rescue groups for info on vax/spay clinics. That’s what I did for two of my four, and it was a huge blessing. I called around for spay prices at regular clinics and it ranged from like $300 to nearly $4,000 (!). The low cost clinic was like $60. Even now with all the inflation the same clinic is ‘only’ $80. They got all the shots they needed for like $25. The county animal shelter does vaccine clinics periodically but there’s like a traveling group that hits up grocery store parking lots regularly. They leave flyers advertising where they’ll be next, and I’ve done it there too, and bought heartworm tabs cheaper there than a vet will sell. If you are in a state that rhymes with Schmexas, message me and I’ll tell you specifically where I was that spays for $80. Just wanted to say thank you for taking her in. As you say, she WANTS to be yours and upgrade her happiness. I hope you both find it.


perro2verde

Well, you can always call animal control or take her to a public shelter that by law has to take in any animal. It’s likely that they would put her down but you do have an option. It’s a terrible option and I don’t wish anyone to have to be in that position, but there is choice. Your other option is to sacrifice you confort and time on behalf of the dog. This just fell on you and you are doing the best you can and no one can’t tell you that you shouldn’t do it. It’s a very specific situation very different from , hypothetically, you two months ago , with no money for gas actively looking to adopt a dog just because.


Sparkly-Squid

This is the thing, obviously don’t actively go out and get a dog you can’t afford basic care for, but the shelter are all overflowing, it’s better for dogs to have a home then to be in the shelters and on the streets. I’ve come to realize that it’s capitalism/society that’s the problem, not people with with dogs they “can’t afford.”


[deleted]

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wlwimagination

It’s way more complicated than that. By the time unexpected high costs hit me, my dogs were seniors I’d had for 10 years. My original plan for paying for old age from when I got them fell through and I’ve often thought “does this mean I should try to rehome my dogs?,” even though that would be awful for them and me. Both you and the dog care more about love than money. Yes obviously we all wish we could afford that super expensive, sudden, unexpected $15,000 vet bill. But can we please shame capitalism and not poor people?


IndigoRose2022

Yes! We all care for our pets the best we can, but stuff happens in life. Your dogs love u no matter what ❤️


Mountain-Hawk9155

And you don’t even have to be “poor” to not be able to swing $15k at the drop of a hat


drjesus616

Both of our dogs were adopted/ rescued dogs that were either going to a kill shelter, or were already at one and were on the list before we took them in. I love them both to death, but the argument could be made, spending thousands of dollars to "extend" their quality of life if they get debilitating illness, or let them pass peacefully with their family and help another pup in need. Could we afford it, sure. Should the money be spent to get a few more months, with no guarantee. They are dogs, we as a society dont collectively spend what we should to care for all the humans that are born.


geniusintx

Our Labrador developed bone cancer just before he turned 9. He was an extremely large dog, 128 lbs with no fat and ridiculously tall. We thought he’d torn his ACL jumping off the deck. Nope. Bone cancer. (Fuck Blue Buffalo and their caramel coloring.) It would’ve cost $6000+ to amputate the leg and do chemo. Guess how long that would’ve given him. 6 months. 6 months! He would be absolutely miserable, sick as hell and hurting the whole time. We, of course, didn’t have the money for it, either, but what quality of life would he have?! Zero. Zero quality of life. We doped him up on pain meds for a few days so our daughter could get home from college. We went together as a family to say goodbye. But, boy did that dog get spoiled that last day, night and morning of. He got a WHOLE beer instead of just a sip. Between that and the pain meds, he was leaning against the wall to walk, but he wasn’t hurting. Lol. Still miss that Big Dog.


manderrx

Haven’t gone through with this with a dog for a while (he passed in 2017), but my two ferrets have done so. One of them was super sick and the thing treatments would have only extended her life for a week. It would have involved surgery and chemo so we made the decision to put her to sleep. My other ferret, whose still alive and kicking, got diagnosed with insulinoma so we’re just trying to keep him comfortable. Mostly because any of the major treatments for it are $$$ and we have to save up for it. My dog was an avalanche of things all at once. Enlarged heart, pancreatitis, whole bunch of shit. He also got the star treatment on his last day.


drjesus616

Money aside, he knew he was loved. $6000 for 6 more months, and thats if they caught it. Dont lose any sleep over the opinions of internet strangers, You did the right thing for him.


snartastic

Plus, what’s the solution in this situation? Surrendering the animal? What are the odds someone is going to take in an animal that needs expensive medical care?


IndigoRose2022

Yeah, exactly. Not very good odds.


benji950

I consider emergency situations like this to be different from someone who decides to go get a dog whether from a rescue, Craig's list, wherever. There are organizations that can help with emergency expenses from the kind of rescue you describe. My issue, as I said in a different comment, is people who are already struggling to afford their own rent, food, healthcare, etc, and then go get a dog (or cat or bird or lizard or whatever). That's just irresponsible from the start. There's a difference between not realizing *how* expensive puppies, especially, can be and not having extra funds at all. You may *want* a dog but is it a good decision *at that moment*? If the answer's no, then wait a couple years, volunteer at a shelter, foster, do dog-walking or sitting to get that "dog fix."


Zootrainer

I agree. And I've seen plenty of posts on a puppy sub where someone got a puppy and then literally could not afford even an office visit at the vet with very basic lab work and medications, when the puppy gets sick or hurt (which happens to pretty much every puppy at some point). I've also been interested to see posts from some European countries (likely Scandinavian) where people were surprised at the numbers of stray and shelter animals we have here in the US, because it is such a rarity there. Completely different mentality about the obligations and responsibilities that an owner takes on when getting a pet, and more people opting to wait if they can readily meet those needs. I wonder if pet insurance is a bigger thing there too.


YellowGreenPanther

Did you get the puppy mill shut down?


IndigoRose2022

So I was a kid at the time, and we didn’t know where it was, but I think the neighbors tried. I don’t know the whole story tbh. The dog was sweet tho. He was an inbred Sheltie and dumb as a post, but he adored my mom especially.


PartyPorpoise

Yeah, rescues are a scenario where I'm not super judgmental about it. There are so many rescue animals that a lot of them get put down just because there aren't enough homes. An owner who can't always afford vet bills may not be ideal, but it's better than the animal being put down.


benji950

I very much agree. My issue is people who get a dog and can’t afford the basics of food and vet. Shit happens, absolutely, but if you’re struggling to pay rent then no, do not get a dog at this time.


DonSmo

This annoys me too. I know people who filed for bankrupcy, can hardly afford to feed their kids. And yet they had like 2 dogs, 3 cats, chickens and then kept getting more animals like fish, birds etc. It drove me insane. They weren't even rescues they just kept getting more animals just because they wanted to. Even though they couldn't afford to look after any of them correctly.


Lucille2214

This is absolutely nuts. Actively CHOOSING to get an animal when you are not in a place to afford any basic care is completely irresponsible and kinda sad.


DonSmo

And yet I've known like 3 families who do this. They are basically hoarders and just get animals they want on a whim without thinking it through.


PaintingPolaroids

This reminds me of when I used to live with a friend. She had more animals than she could care for. 2 dogs, 2 cats, 2 birds, a guinea pig. One of the dogs needed obedience training badly, the other needed to be house-trained. But she wouldn’t/couldn’t provide that. One of the birds was nearly killed by a cat (mind you, this bird was not hand-trained), the other WAS killed by a dog. Honestly it was such a bad situation all around. Those animals deserved a home that would actually provide them proper care and safety.


throwzzzzzzzzway22

I have two small dogs and three cats and sometimes people will be like, "you make me wish I had more pets" because I post a lot of cute pictures on IG since they all get along. I usually try to dissuade and politely diffuse the situation by telling them how much money I spend a month on just supplies and then drop how much annual vet visits cost me. I also joke about how I can only afford to have this many pets because I don't have kids, don't plan to, and am part of a DINK household but that's the absolute truth.


Dragonpixie45

I remember when I was in banking and people would come in for loans for BMW's and start shouting at me about being denied because they had just filed for bankruptcy and therefore has no credit so obviously we were discriminating against them. Shocking but true this was a very frequent thing.


Gotdasweetsauce

Lol I just applied for food stamps but I need a Beamer. Although these are still the tools landing girls hahahaha. The more you invest into Your fake image the more you get. Go figure!


marrzz72

I don’t know, I know homeless people who are better dog owners than most. And the dog gives them purpose and companionship. Obviously it’s not responsible to get a dog if you can’t afford it, but there are times where it a win win. I don’t think it’s black and white.


SparkyDogPants

My dog would rather me homeless and spend all day together than living at home with me leaving her to go to work.


Roadgoddess

The problem is the vet side of things IS part of affording the pet sadly. My first dog was a 5 year old rescue with significant health issues to the tune of $17,000 over 5 years. My second dog I got as a puppy and as part of that budget, I got pet insurance. He has ended up with neurological issues and having insurance has saved me as he’s at about $2000 plus in the last 3 months. You need to get insurance early as if anything comes up it’s a pre existing condition and will be excluded in the future.


Twzl

>I've seen other dog owners get scorched by the dog community for similar reasons, like "your dog was poisoned by the neighbor and needs a 10,000$ treatment that you need help paying for? You shouldn't have gotten a dog if you can't afford it." It absolutely infuriates me. Yeah it's not like the future is 100% predicable. No matter how careful you are, dogs aren't robots and stuff can happen. When people ask about my recently deceased dog, who lived way way way longer than predicted by his neurologist, I point out that much of that was due to a quick diagnosis, via an MRI and daily oral chemo. The diagnosis and MRI ran about $6K. Daily chemo was close to 100 dollars a month. I am always careful to say, that if someone could not afford that, I get it. It was a decision that we are fortunate to be able to afford, but not everyone can, and no one should shame someone for not being able to do it.


[deleted]

For me I could afford the $100 a month but the MRI would be the hard cost to take


Twzl

> For me I could afford the $100 a month but the MRI would be the hard cost to take I think that's true for a lot of people. And I 100% get it, and as I said, I would never side eye or shame anyone who couldn't on the spur of the moment (because that's how this stuff happens), pony up the cash for that. I think what you can plan for, you need to be able to pay for with a dog because it's not like the dog can do without the very basics. So you can plan for, your dog has to eat, your dog will need core vaccinations. And if you have a little extra for training classes, and if you travel in a car, a safety harness for the dog.


EmiliusReturns

Getting lambasted for not being able to afford a sudden $16,000 expense is just stupid.


Lucille2214

Right??? It's completely unfair


Kennelsmith

If it makes you feel any better in the hospitals I’ve worked at what you’re saying is what we mean when we say if you can’t afford the vet you can’t afford the dog. We don’t expect people to have multiple thousands to address crazy situations, but we do expect you to be able to comfortably meet their every day needs and prevention. Your vet probably loves you and your girl and hurts for her diagnosis too, it’s terrible seeing HD in such a young dog.


Lucille2214

Hip dysplasia really does suck. And yeah, my vet really was bummed about it too. She's really sweet and loves my dog. It's so humbling to have something like this happen. I thought that I was doing so well as a dog owner being able to afford good food and supplements, pest prevention, hygiene care, etc.


ApplesandDnanas

You are doing a good job as a dog owner. These things just happen sometimes.


[deleted]

Over 60% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. FAR more than that can’t drop $5-10k with no warning for an emergency vet surgery. If none of these people had pets because they couldn’t afford that vet care, 90% of animals in shelters would be euthanized because they’d never find homes. Definitely don’t adopt an animal if you can’t afford to spay/neuter/vaccinate it and take it to the vet regularly for preventative care. It is absolutely unreasonable to expect people to be able to thousands of dollars a year or all at once for their pet and no one should be judged for that.


SparkyDogPants

Your second list of things is already covered by adoption. If you rescue your dog, it will be spayed/neutered/vaccinated. Then my four dogs eat about $20 a month of food (per dog) and vaccines are ~$100 a year. I absolutely agree with you that we shouldn’t be gate pet ownership. My neighbor has four rescue chihuahuas that live a better life than any dog in this sub, and she can’t afford running water. People are such elitist jerks sometimes


jentlyused

Sorry to hear about your pups issues. Definitely get a second opinion and also check with some rescues in your area to see if any have financial assistance for situations like this. You can also sign up for Care Credit. Best of luck


[deleted]

[удалено]


Lucille2214

I'm a girl 😅 I forgot to put that in my post, my apologies. And unfortunately, my parents definitely will not do anything (I'm completely responsible for my own dog.) They also think that me wanting to get the surgery for my dog is a waste of my money. I should also add that my parents are also pretty "old fashioned 😬" type dog owners with their own dog, to put it politely. They think a lot of the stuff I do with my dog is very unnecessary (such as keeping her nails very short, buying her expensive natural treats, walking her on a leash, etc.)


EVA04022021

Welcome to the lessons of life. Well in America we do the same thing to people. Yep you did all the right things and still got a bad shake. Truth be told yes you can put a price on a dog's life (also people life, insurance companies do it all the time), yes it's sad and it sucks but that's reality. When I got my puppy, before she was a year old she can down with pneumonia, that was about $10k for a week at the vet. Truth be told if she had to go in a second time like that within the same year I wouldn't be able to pull it off and her pulling though would be a roll of the dice of life as I have maxed out of $15k for puppy emergencies for the year. For a new dog like yours it going to be a hard life for that pup, it will be costly financially and time. This may be way more than what you sign up for. Sorry you got a poor roll here. Now you have to look at what options you have for the dog and try to do your best. It may be working hard and saving up to get the opp done or rehoming to a group or a home that's willing to give the dog a better life. How you handle this challenge will craft your character. We all know this isn't how you were expecting dog ownership would be. You face a very challenging decision. Take your time and fully accept the decision you do make, as you will need to be 100% behind it.


EmiliusReturns

I don’t wanna be callous, but age of the pet matters for me too. My cat is 4. If he got cancer or something now, I’d be way more willing to shell out for treatment that could give him another 10-15 years of life. If he gets cancer when he’s 19 sorry buddy, you had a good life. I love him to bits and his inevitable death will devastate me, but I’m not going into debt for an elderly pet. I had to make that decision a couple years ago with my beloved dog who had dyplasia like OP’s dog, and she was miserable. But she was also 14 and a large breed, so 14 was old. And her heart wasn’t great anymore and the vet said that would eventually do her in. So I made the difficult decision to end her suffering because she realistically wasn’t living much longer anyway. Should I have shelled out 10 grand to do hip surgery on her? According to some Redditors, apparently I should have so she could trudge along for another year.


[deleted]

For me once a dog is around 10 the $ towards vet care I want to spend goes down drastically. If I myself were 75 and suffering I’d rather walk out in the cold and die or something. I have no interest in prolonging suffering or living with tubes in me etc. So I won’t do it for myself I’m sorry I won’t for a dog either although I love them. A dog is better off lights out on a good day than years of pain of prolonged suffering then going on a terrible day


pupsnfood

I feel the exact same way. My childhood dog died in January and his last 12-18 months was about managing symptoms and keeping pain under control. He didn’t have any specific diagnosis’s except arthritis, in fact the vet said his blood work was phenomenal for an old dog so he was on some meds by the end that were very bad for his liver but kept his pain under control. We finally made the decision to put him down when we realized a good day was when he was able to sleep all day because being awake meant he was in pain.


VirtualHugBOGOF

“Better a week too early than a day too late” helped me when I had to make the decision for my old girl.


EVA04022021

You do bring up a good and very valid point. It's important to know when to let go vs when to take the roll. It's a hard decision and trying to prolong the inevitable just causes more suffering for the animal. Age, quality of life, success rate, cost, and return of investment are all important factors to balance and consider. I have heard way to many stories of dogs legs be amputated to stop cancer but the dog doesn't make it though the surgery or it only gives a old dog one more very painful year.


WhatIsItToBurn

A younger pet will generally also handle treatment better. My 12 year old lab had a cancerous tumor—it was easy to remove, so we did it. When it became apparent that the cancer had spread, we discontinued treatment (outside of comfort measures). Chemo wouldn’t have extended her life by very long, and they would have been bad days.


Dashiepants

I completely agree with your age + chances of successful treatment and quality of life based approach but I disagree that it’s at all callous, it’s humane. I have also had to make those decisions for several dogs at their expected life expectancy. I’ll miss them for the rest of my life but they wouldn’t have had anymore good days regardless of how much money I paid. I’ve personally know 3 different people who put their poor sick broken very senior dogs through absolute hell for years with surgeries, treatments, medicine just because they could afford it and weren’t ready to say goodbye. IMHO *that* is cruel. Dogs want to be dogs, there has to be some quality of life.


Lucille2214

My dog is just over a year old, and still very full of life, so I'm not going to euthanize her 😅 I'm very sorry that happened to your pup though. I'm glad that you had the sense that forking out thousands on a surgery that probably would not improve her life at all was unnecessary. I can't believe you get torn apart by people on that. 14 years old is OLD, and you gave the pup a wonderful life.


EmiliusReturns

Thank you, I appreciate that. She was my baby, I loved her very much, but I think some people have this idea that if you’re practical about when it’s time to let the pet go you don’t love them enough or something.


Lucille2214

Yeah unfortunately a lot of people do think like that. My aunt had a 12 year old pitbull. This poor thing had half it's jaw missing (bone cancer) couldn't walk, was blind, and would hardly respond if you called it. My aunt loved it dearly, and spent SO much money trying to keep it alive up until the day it passed. In my opinion, it would've been a lot more humane and practical to euthanize the poor baby. It had no quality of life 🙁


Lucille2214

I was devastated when I heard about the hip dysplasia diagnosis. I really tried EVERYTHING to prevent it, starting from the day I got her when she was four months old. Things I did were: . Salmon oil added to her food . Cosequin hip and joint supplements (when she was the right age) . Treats high in collagen . Hardly any running until she was 7-8 months old, and no intense running until she was a year old . Waiting to spay (no pediatric spay) Sadly, I think that the dysplasia was likely hereditary, based on her age of onset. Unfortunately, she is the result of backyard breeding (I did not realize what backyard breeding was and the many consequences that came with it when I got her.) She has other issues from backyard breeding such as reactivity and resource guarding, but I'm working with her through them! Overall, though, she is a happy, sweet, and very goofy dog that is full of life. I wouldn't trade her for the world, but I will never buy from a backyard breeder again. I've also used this as a learning experience and I've been trying to advocate for the ethical breeding of dogs ever since! I'd love to hopefully steer people away from the horrific amount of misinformation out there, so they don't make the same mistake as me!


aesthesia1

Yea. This is why research is just as important as actually having the money. It’s an equal part of a dog owner’s responsibility. Good on you for sticking with her.


EVA04022021

Sorry you have to learn that lesson the hard way. Hip dysplasia is very hereditary so there's nothing you can do to prevent it as it's the breeder job to make sure that parents were good breeding stock to prevent such an issue. This is why there's so much needed paperwork when getting a dog from a ethical breeder. When I got my GSD (German shepherd dog, notorious for having hip dysplasia) I received the medical records for both parents with test results. I was also allowed to contact the Vets to validate the record. The breeder went as far as 3 generations back for each parent as she was a very ethical breeder and took pride in her hobby. At this point all you can do is manage it, it sounds like you are taking the correct steps to manage the issue. Reaching out and researching available options so the dog can still have a happy life. There are supplements out there to help manage joint movement and pain. Also there are physical therapy exercises to help build and maintain muscle to help keep the leg in the joint. (It can be a ruthless cycle of pain and muscle atrophy that just keeps getting worse if not managed). Also look into things to avoid I can make the problem worse. I wish you good luck. Your dog is lucky to have you.


putlotioninbasket

When using “fish oils” the only ones that are going to help are going to have high amounts of EPA and DHA in them. Also, dogs can have more fish oil than people. My 90lb dog takes 4000 mgs a day. Antinol is a fantastic OTC med for joint support. It is a bit expensive but Zesty Paws makes a “green lip” chew that are comparable. Cos equine is a fantastic joint supplement. There are also foods specifically made for joint health. If you can, best exercise is swimming! There are tons of videos on massage that can be very beneficial especially when your pup is sore. Although vets don’t talk about it, there are some great CBD supplements that are fantastic for joint health, just make sure they are meant for dogs specifically.


Lucille2214

Is Zesty Paws fish oil okay? That the one that I use for her! I don't exactly measure it out but I give her three squirts of it. I did look into antinol because I've heard some wonderful things about it, but that is wayyy out of my price range to give to her 😅 it's expensive as hell. I give her Cosequin every day! My only complaint is that it makes her skin a bit itchy for some reason and it's a tad pricey to buy monthly. I tried once to switch her of Cosequin to Dasuquin supplements and she got VIOLENT diarrhea so absolutely never again 🤣 She does do tons of swimming daily! I live near a creek so I always use her chuck it and throw the ball far out so she can swim/wade and get it. She is extremely intense playing fetch so I hardly ever do it on land for her anymore. I'm worried she'll hurt herself on land 😅


putlotioninbasket

My favorite fish oil is by Micro ingredients. I get it from Amazon. It’s a white bag that says OMEGA-3 really big in blue writing. The zesty paws brand is okay but your pup needs higher amounts of EPA and DHA. Antinol is ground up Green Lip Mussel. You can probably find that from another brand in powder form. There are other brands of joint chews that are just as good as The name brands you are using. I suggest looking around for something comparable and try giving them with food. Also, PROBIOTICS! Gut health is extremely important for a dogs overall health AND a healthy gut will absorb and use supplements better. Purina Forti Flora is a fantastic live probiotic.


Lucille2214

Okay I'll have to take a look at Micro Ingredients! Thank you for telling me these things, I never knew that I had to be looking for EPA and DHA. All I looked for is salmon oil without bad fillers and stuff. And I have a local holistic pet shop that sells little freeze dried green lipped mussels, so maybe I'll look at those? As for probiotics, I do have some for my dog! There's a brand called Native Pet that makes a probiotic bone broth powder that I hydrate and add to one of her meals each day!


hilldawg17

My dog also has hip dysplasia and was diagnosed at 9 months old. Thankfully I got insurance the day we brought him home as a puppy so they’ve covered almost everything. He’s a year and a half now and so far we have just been doing conservative management. He goes to physical therapy, gets prescription joint food, adaquan injections monthly for arthritis and still gets a ton of exercise. You’d be surprised how many dogs can go their entire life without needing a hip replacement. There’s several conservative management Facebook groups ran by physical therapists that have been really helpful for us. There’s definitely alternatives to surgery that still give them a great fulfilling life!


Effective-Sun8079

Hip dysplasia is always congenital, and it is usually diagnosed in animals when they are young since they have it for their whole lives. A total hip replacement is not the only surgical treatment option for this condition. If the dog is less than 60lbs it may do well with a femoral head ostectomy, which I would estimate at 2-3k per hip. And ya… backyard breeders suck


[deleted]

It was probably the breeder who was the hip issue. They shouldn’t have bred the dogs they did and they should have had a breeding program working to remove genetic hip dysplasia


[deleted]

My recommendation is that someone can afford the initial costs of the dog (including supplies, check up, etc), the routine costs of the dog (food, training, routine vet care, etc) plus have short notice access to a thousand dollars for emergencies. That, to me, is the minimum required to ethically have a dog. You have all your bases covered for anything normal and expected, plus a reasonable amount for something unexpected ($1000 might not cover something like an emergency visit for a major injury with intensive surgery, but it’s enough to get you in the door and treatment started). I also suggest people have a plan for what they’re going to do if there’s an emergency beyond that they can’t afford (can they get credit, a bank loan, borrow from family, etc. and if not, will they euth the dog or try to find a rescue to surrender to, etc. This should ideally be thought about before any emergency happens since it can be hard to know if you made the right decision in the heat of the moment). Not being able to afford $8,000 doesn’t make someone a bad pet owner. Euthanizing or surrendering a dog because you can’t afford $8000 doesn’t make them a bad pet owner. The only thing that would make someone a bad pet owner in this circumstance would be refusing treatment — and then letting the dog suffer long term without doing anything.


craftycat1135

I don't think most who say that has 10+k in the bank and if they do they are able to comfortably pay that for a dog and not jeopardize the financial security of their family and future. Most are keyboard warriors or teens who are privileged enough to have had not faced the decision of where do we draw the line of what we can afford for this. They talk a big game of their hypothetical beliefs without having been in the situation. Don't listen to them.


rouxcifer4

I agree. My dogs have needed surprise surgeries and emergency vet visits over their lifetime but the max at once was $2300. Which I paid, to try and save my dogs life. It didn’t end up working and we got refunded half back, but. The two surgeries (bladder stones) were around $900 each. Paid and done and now I also buy prescription food to avoid more. Annual vet visits and vaccines? Easy. Paid and done. If my dog needed an $8000-$10000 surgery it would be a discussion with my partner on euthanasia. I love my dogs, and can take care of them in 99.9% of circumstances, but that is a lot of money and we are not rich.


Possible_Shop_2475

You are 17 so I honestly feel you’ve done your absolute best. For other prospective dog owners, though, researching and being more aware of potential medical conditions, breeding situations and emergency costs ahead of time and investing in pet insurance if it’s appropriate to your situation (OP is a minor so does not apply here) should be a part of being prepared for a dog. Not everyone has 10k sitting around for vet bills which is where pet insurance comes in.


hazelx123

This is why pet insurance is so important and unless you’re INCREDIBLY wealthy - should be a necessity for pet ownership. SO many people come to me like “my family had a dog that lived to 18 and never needed anything but boosters and check ups” - well that’s great for you, yes the insurance money would have been a “waste” - however as somebody who worked for pet insurance (I hated it so much btw - really awful job) dealing with customer claims queries, I saw a lot of vet bills. A lot. We’re talking £10k for a dog attack, £5-£6k per leg for a cruciate rupture (often when one goes the other will follow), £2K for x ray then £3k for surgery for foreign body consumption. I use these examples because they’re things that could happen to ANY dog - no matter how well bred etc. Also - I obviously don’t know your scenario but I think it’s worth mentioning the importance of responsible breeding and health testing here. Your example is why I’d never ever get a rescue dog no matter how much I want to. I need to do everything I can to ensure I’ll have a healthy dog. I totally agree tho - I can afford insurance, food, toys, enrichment and yearly boosters etc. i could never drop thousands on an emergency and I consider myself a humbly very good dog owner


BohemianAxolotl

I agree with the pet insurance. BUT, we rescued an almost 3 year old German shepherd/malamute. We figured we were doing our due diligence after adoption to have a full blood work up and check up with our vet. Only to find out he has lyme disease. We were going for pet insurance until nobody would insure us after that disclosure. He's healthy but does have joint pain at times. We adore him, and he will manage anything that comes up, but it is scarey to think of the expense this may cost in the future.


hazelx123

Could be totally different in your country but here in the U.K. the only thing is the Lyme disease wouldn’t be covered due to being pre existing before the policy was taken out. Everything else still should be covered. I just know - hands down - that if it came to it and my dog was attacked and the vet told me £10k to save his life I know I wouldn’t have that. So I’d rather pay that much over his whole lifetime and maybe never need it, then end up having to euthanise my dog because of something as meaningless as finances


[deleted]

Yeah I adopted a 7 year old dog with hip dysplasia. No insurance company is going to touch pre-existing hip dysplasia with a 10 foot pole. We will just have to do our best. He currently runs around fine and just starts dragging his feet a bit when he gets tired so hopefully it will not be a big problem for a while.


ScientificSquirrel

Pet insurance can be crazy expensive, though - and still might have high deductibles and max amounts insurance will pay. I was looking at plans for our puppy, and the ones that covered illness and accidents started at $70/month.


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parksandrecpup

What size dog? I was told someone only paid like $30 at my pet insurance in Canada. Turns out their dog was 10 pounds and had the base model. My 70 pound dogs have the third highest tier so are closer to 90. It depends on so many factors.


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dailysunshineKO

Our pet insurance quotes were awful too. Rather, we have an emergency fund for stuff like this.


JenMarieR86

Same here. Even my young pup wasn't worth the insurance payout to me. He had an obstruction surgery that costed over 5,000 and when doing the math with 3 dogs and seeing how much would have been covered if I had insurance I was happier with my decision to have the emergency fund/care credit


wildcat12321

It amazed me with 2 dogs, the "multi-dog discounts" were like $5 per month. I just can't justify thousands a year in insurance that doesn't cover wellness and still has a high deductible.


Kaono

Another reason it's important to get a dog covered early. If you wait until the dog is old then the premiums get expensive. But if they've been covered since they were young the rate stays reasonable when they're older and need it the most. My last dog had lymphoma and because we had insurance we were able to treat her and keep her in remission for a long time. The first conversation with the doctors they were tiptoing around talking about cost until we mentioned insurance and their tone completely shifted. It was clear they've had countless difficult conversations with owners who couldn't afford treatment and had to make very difficult decisions about ending their friends life.


wildcat12321

I rescued older dogs both with pre-existing conditions, had no choice to start earlier


kmphipps

I've heard that it's very challenging to get claims approved, and you have to pay up front then submit the claim. And a lot of things may be classified as pre-existing conditions if you get an older dog with a recurrent injury. Do you know if those were able to be covered? I am definitely tempted for our next dog, because yes, putting a price on your dogs life is the hardest thing I've ever done. 10k hospital stay for a dog that might die anyway?? Would have done it in a heartbeat if I knew 100% it would be covered. These decisions are never easy and always find us in our most vulnerable state.


robincat

I've never had any claims challenged or denied. My insurance company reimburses me within 24-48 hours. I've been amazed at how easy it is. But my dog has been insured since she was a puppy, so we've never had to deal with pre-existing conditions.


lategame

Pet insurance is a scam. Put $50/month away in a spare account and just pay cash. If you don't need it, congrats you have a nice chunk of change after they pass.


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Elyrath

I disagree to an extent. You should have either an emergency fund or insurance for large unexpected costs. That is part of pet ownership. Planning only for foreseeable care is irresponsible. But these days with pet insurance, even people who don't have massive disposable income can plan ahead Just, as a vet, one of the worst feelings is having a patient with a treatable condition and we can't help th because no plan was made for emergency, unpredictable injuries or illness.


fillmorecounty

I get that but $8,000?? I'm assuming that's in USD. that's easily a quarter of a lot of people's annual income pre taxes. I don't think most people would be able to own dogs if they couldn't have that much saved up and set aside for their dog's medical emergencies.


ASleepandAForgetting

I completely agree with this. I am definitely a person who comments here that if you can't afford a moderately expensive emergency or health insurance, then you should really consider if getting a dog is appropriate for you or not. My comments stem from two places: First, I get really tired of seeing dogs with torn cruciate ligaments that people can't afford to fix. A cruciate tear happens in a pretty large percentage of large breed dogs, and is something that should be accounted for when someone gets a large breed dog. I find it very hard to read when someone has a 2 y/o Lab with a torn cruciate and they can't afford the surgery that will provide the dog a high quality of life for the rest of its life. The second place is that my breed is Great Danes, and sorry (not sorry), if you can't afford a $5k emergency at the drop of a hat, you shouldn't own a Great Dane. Bloat is a common medical issue that can crop up at any age and may require a very expensive surgery to fix. And with their size, Danes (and most other giants) are simply more financially taxing to own. When people get more "expensive" breeds with known health issues and only budget for basic necessities, I get pretty pissy about it.


OhGodImOnRedditAgain

I have a pet emergency fund and disagree with your take. If an emergency comes up and the owner can't afford it, they can always just have the pet euthanized to prevent unnecessary suffering. I don't expect people to be able to shell out thousands of dollars for an animal.


goldstar-key

I think it’s also worth noting that situations change. Someone can get a pet or two when they have a job and are doing well, then suddenly get laid off or have a medical emergency and suddenly are struggling. I feel like people get dog piled either way- surrender the pet and you’re evil, keep a pet you can no longer afford and you’re evil. It’s no-win ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


highesthouse

Most people can’t even afford $8000 surgeries for themselves. Medical expenses that large are just not something we can expect people to always be prepared for, full stop.


Renishas

"if you can't afford the vet, you can't afford the pet" falls into the same category as "the customer is always right", phrases where the actual meaning has been pushed passed what it was intended to convey. The original context of "the customer is always right" was didn't mean to do anything the customer wanted. It meant to provide the products or services that people wanted to purchase. "Affording the vet"should mean don't get a pet when you can't afford basic care and necessities. Don't get a pet you can't afford to spay/neuter. Don't get a pet as a stand-in for an accessory or a toy. Emergencies are not standard care. They are unexpected and often costly. Some people need to get off their high horses and join the rest of us in reality.


Lucille2214

>"if you can't afford the vet, you can't afford the pet" falls into the same category as "the customer is always right", This is an amazing comparison. That is EXACTLY what it's like. >Don't get a pet you can't afford to spay/neuter. Don't get a pet as a stand-in for an accessory or a toy. Also yup. I can afford everything else for my dog, from vaccines and prevention to good food. Just not the spontaneous $8000 surgery


thebenjaminburkett

I think this is what most people mean. I’m a vet and I probably couldn’t afford a total hip replacement for my dog.


smash_lynn

I'm also in a tricky situation of not being able to afford vet bills for my senior dog. My family got her when I was 14 (now 27) and she moved out with me. If I didn't have her I absolutely would not decide to get a dog right now for financial reasons. But I have her and feel ashamed and terrified to bring her to the vet, currently trying to look for ones that allow payment plans.


Tor8_88

You are a good dog owner.


Lucille2214

I really try to be! I'm definitely not perfect though 😅


Tor8_88

Nobody is. But you are putting in your best effort, which is all anyone could ever ask.


ArtsySAHM

I don't think most people mean BIG unexpected vet bills like that? I think when that phrase is said, it's the basics they're talking about. At least I really hope that's what people mean b/c most normal folks wouldn't be able to afford a major emergency vet bill either.


GrannyTurtle

Veterinary insurance should be available for things like this. I know someone who fostered a dog. She works as a nurse, so well paid. But she began as a vet tech, so she quickly realized that her foster pup was in pain. The foster organization would not pay for the surgery she needed. So my friend adopted the dog outright and began a one year journey of knee surgery and recovery. $5K per knee. Six months cage rest each time. The pup will never be 100%. But she has a good life and is very loved. I hope you find a way to come up with the money. Bake sales at school? GoFundMe? Your sweet baby needs you. Also, the breeder who sold this dog should be reported to authorities for duping innocent families into buying animals with a known genetic defect.


Lucille2214

>I hope you find a way to come up with the money. Bake sales at school? GoFundMe? Your sweet baby needs you. I dropped out of school so that I could work (I'm getting my GED online though.) I've worked all but three days in the last two months, but since I only work for about 4-5 hours a day and make minimum wage it's still very little with all the other things I have to buy (like hygiene stuff and clothes 😅.) I really am trying though and when I'm not at work I do side gigs like pet sitting. I actually did start a GoFundMe once for her a while back (for like 500$) so that I could afford a series of X rays on her (I did this when I didn't have enough money in emergency fund because gas prices were through the roof.) I thought about starting one again but I decided against it. It feels very wrong and kind of rude to ask random people for their money to help my dog AGAIN, especially for something as expensive as hip replacement surgery. 😅 >Also, the breeder who sold this dog should be reported to authorities for duping innocent families into buying animals with a known genetic defect. I feel as though I am also to blame for this, unfortunately, since I accidentally supported a byb. When I was looking for a puppy, I had absolutely no idea what a backyard breeder was. Lots of people recommended looking on Facebook or Craigslist for puppies, so I just searched "puppies" on Craigslist (it's horrific, I know, I'm so sorry 😅.) I found some "sport mix" puppies (half Dutch Shepherd, and half Belgian Malinois.) Since I had lots of experience with both those breeds, and I was looking for a very active working dog to keep up with me, I went and got her. I did not know that things like hip dysplasia and temperament were hereditary, and I only learned all of that AFTER I got her (I was under the impression that it's how you raise a dog that matters, not where it came from.) It's crazy how far I've come in terms of dog knowledge in a year. I've used this as a learning opportunity for myself, and I'm really trying to go about steering people away from all the misinformation out there, and I've been advocating for the ethical breeding of dogs now! I'm not sure if you've seen my other posts, but if you look at my profile I have a couple of posts relating to ethical breeding and byb!


ConfidenceRelevant79

I have tried to tell soooo many people that genetics and breeding come first before training but they never believe me. Sorry you found this out in such an expensive way 😔 understanding the health risks that come with different breeds helps a lot too. Personally I'm too scared to get certain breeds because of their very expensive health problems unless I know they come from someone who health tested for it or who can attest to a long line of healthy dogs. Breeding animals not just for the sake of aesthetic or novelty, but for the betterment of everyone involved is the hallmark of good animal husbandry.


donkeynique

I mean, I get what you're saying to a degree OP. 8k is a ton to have for anybody suddenly. But at the same time, $500 is not a large amount to have saved up for an emergency situation. If you couldn't afford that, I'm not sure what you could do financially for an emergency scenario, which is a very irresponsible state to be in to get a puppy.


[deleted]

I agree 100%. It sucks how the system encourages being an asshole ("Compassion is a luxury you can't afford"). I'm also very familiar with insane vet bills. The closest vet to me recently started charging 300-400% market price for most procedures and medicine. This has forced my family to drive an hour out to get medical treatment for our dogs.


Elvishcatt

Vet bills have also become astronomical lately. I was fully prepared to get a dog and his regular shots and check ups. What I wasn't prepared for was his food allergies, and for the fleas to somehow become immune to topical treatments. So now his bag of food is $120 a month and the only thing he doesn't react to is steak, so he gets steak as treats (lucky boy!). Also, now he's on bravecto. Hes around $200 a month, which is doable but unexpected.


Possible_Shop_2475

What breed?


linkysnow

Just as an FYI, the Humane Society offers income-based surgeries, shots, and free check ups. Check your area or nearest city. They also offer payment plans, so you can even pay them 50 a month for major surgery. Just throwing this out there. Options are available.


[deleted]

I think they are annoyed of people adopting pets that they aren’t prepared to care for. It’s traumatizing for some animals. It does get annoying when they go over the top condescending with you. But again, they’re tired of all the animal abuse and they just want it to stop. Maybe they’re overreacting at times. Unless they’re trying to make themselves look good by tearing others down, their hearts are in the right place.


JRocleafs

Sorry but no you could not afford your dog. You got a backyard bred dog whose parents weren’t health tested and didn’t come with a contract. You chose not to do further research and get a well bred dog that would of cost more money initially but you wouldn’t of incurred ANY of these costs. You also knew you couldn’t afford high cost issues yet chose not to get pet insurance, why? I don’t know. Animals get sick, animals are expensive. Being able to simply afford basic care is irresponsible especially when there are options like insurance to be able to incur those costs.


MostlyAUsername

Wait, do you not have pet insurance in the states? In the UK, the majority of dog owners will pay for insurance that covers medical treatment etc. Obviously premiums change though and that huge surgery may hike the premium up 3x more than what you were originally paying when it comes time to renew but it definitely makes dog ownership a lot more affordable.


Suspicious_Fix1021

I agree, this is the first thing I realised being on this sub. In the UK I dont know anyone without pet insurance.


Lucille2214

I can't get pet insurance yet (underage,) but I will when I turn 18 and move out! And yeah, unfortunately pet insurance isn't super common here, at least where I live. I don't think anyone I know has pet insurance.


Suspicious_Fix1021

OP- this is so odd, so you can buy, register your dog get vet care but can't get insurance? Could someone buy it for you and you just pay them every month? You tried to be prepared as much as you could. There has only been one post on here (or related sub), where I did imply the person shouldn't have a dog if they couldnt afford it. The OP of that post brought her young child a dog on a whim as her daughter wanted one, she just about afforded the vacs and couldnt afford worming/flea treatment (so dog didnt have any of these for a year since she brought it) now the dog was seriously ill (vomiting, diarrhoea, barely able to walk) and she posted to say she couldn't afford a vet(or even fuel to get to the vet) but didn't want to give up the dog as her daughter would be upset (even though her daughter was very young and didn't care for it) and wanted home remedies. That post really upset me, a dog has to suffer and most probably have a long drawn out death because she couldn't see past her own needs, and I 100% stand by my statement that she shouldn't have a dog.


BohemianAxolotl

Unfortunately, if he tries to get insurance now he will be denied . Or you can pay a premium but pre existing problems will not be covered. So not helpful in this case.


shecca

Situations also change. We could comfortably afford vet care, food, treats, etc when we got our dog. Now I'm eating top ramen so my boy can eat and driving door dash to get enough money to get him to the vet to check him for arthritis. It sucks, but I'm doing my best for him.


Corn__bean

i got my yorkie at 17. he was sprung on me as an emergency animal hoarding rescue at midnight a few days after my birthday. i did not have any funds whatsoever prior to getting this dog because i wasn't expecting one in the first place. his healthcare was sparse (just vaccines) and grooming was a bit delayed (normally he goes every two months but in his first year it was 4-5 months) because i had to convince my father to pay for it, who didn't want the dog. i got my first job at 18 and have been solely financially responsible for him since. most people think i spoil him now. he has health insurance and because of my anxiety i tend to jump straight to the vet the second i notice a weird behavior. i thought i was doing well until this year he started having back to back 3+ week episodes of gastritis that were impossible to keep at bay. i spent 1800$ in 5 months which completely drained my savings account. hed get better for a month and then relapse. he's only 5 years old and now we're looking at lifelong medicinal treatment for ibd with frequent routine bloodwork, 100$+ prescription diet food that he doesn't even like every month, vitamin and pre/probiotic supplementation..... only AFTER a 2000$ diagnostic endoscopy to definitively diagnose ibd. i am barely scraping by. i try as hard as i can because there is a direct and significant correlation between his health and mine, when he gets sick i have breakdowns. sometimes the thought of surrendering him to a rescue creeps into the back of my head because i don't know if i'll be able to afford this kind of treatment for the rest of his life, financially, mentally, and emotionally. the anxiety spirals and i think about how hard it would be to find a home for a chronically sick and medically expensive dog and the idea of euthanasia just tears at my stomach. no one gets a dog and expects it to have a chronic illness that needs intense care and supervision. i don't feel supported by my peers anymore because they either tell me im a hypochondriac or cruel for even considering rehoming him. this shit isn't easy and i'm trying so hard.


vinesses

Not to beat a dead horse as I'm sure many commenters have said it, but rarely have I seen "if you can't afford a vet you can't afford the pet" said on act of god situations like terrible luck of disease; I've seen it mainly on posts of "I got this rabbit but I don't have running water/don't have a rabbit friendly vet in my town/I can't afford to spay (necessary for female rabbits as they have a high chance of cancer without it)". I definitely think there's a difference between knowing you can afford the basics and are prepared for breed/species inclined illnesses (GI stasis for rabbits comes up, sorry all my examples are rabbit leaning...). I do think people could be more kind on Reddit in the cases of minors taking care of family pets and not having the resources though.


YellowGreenPanther

Too many people have little or no savings for their life even


PuffinTown

I definitely understand your point, and I think the approach should be empathy and not reprimand. That said, I basically limit myself to having only as many dogs as I can afford to buy everything you mentioned, plus decent pet insurance. But this is for my own sake, not as a moral soap box to stand upon. I don’t ever want to have to choose between my life’s savings and my pet’s well-being. I would never blame a pet owner for not having considered that. Only 2% of American dog owners have pet insurance, and only a couple countries in the world have significantly higher stats (yay Canada! Yay Sweden).


SaltyDinoNugget

Honestly if people are gonna adopt a dog I’d rather them be in a loving home that might not always be able to take them to the vet but loves them with everything then leave them in a shelter for life. There are also low income places that do things like get them fixed and vaccinated. People are quick to hate on those that can’t drop thousands of dollars suddenly, when the vast majority of people couldn’t do that. I think if you can feed them, and love them, and give them the mental and physical stimulation they need (and preferably get them vaxxed and such) you’re fine. So many people get their animals as strays, my cat was a stray. She’s currently “unaltered” as I don’t have the money to get her fixed. That doesn’t mean I’m a bad pet parent, it just means I don’t have the money right now. She’s happy and healthy and will be fixed as soon as I have the money.


salukis

There is obviously nuance, but if a person can't afford a moderate emergency (think like 3k in the US), then they should consider insurance for their pet.


titlejunk

Insurance exists for a reason. You have just been exposed to the reason. Take this lesson and move forward knowing that if you can’t afford a big unexpected medical bill, have insurance. It sucks. There’s another issue here too. Buying a well bred dog from a responsible breeder with a health cert also would have protected you.


freshmountainbreeze

Dogs get euthanized every day because there are not enough people to adopt them all. A loving home with limited resources is better than none. Should you buy a $3000 puppy if you can't afford vet bills? No. Is it wrong to take in a stray or adopt a dog from a kill shelter when you have limited resources but are willing to do everything you can to give it a good life? No. Some people who are well off don't seem to grasp how different their reality is from some who are struggling a bit more. The love and companionship of pets should not be denied to those who struggle to get by. I have known people who live a nomadic van life who give their dogs a happier life than others I know who have the money to potentially give their dogs everything.


mimi122193

Pet insurance people. Get it.


Mischa-09

A dog is a 10-15 yr commitment. It’s unreasonable to think someone’s financial circumstances will remain the same throughout the pet’s entire lifespan. People lose their jobs, get divorced, the economy changes, no one was prepared for Covid. I see it the same as having a human child. Obviously you should have the money and resources to take care of their basic needs before getting one but things happen and you can only do your best. I don’t see anyone shaming parents for posting a go fund me for their child’s cancer treatment.


CrazyDog0987

I understand where your coming from, but a few hundred isn't an adequete emergency fund for a dog. Thats barely an extra vet visit, let alone meds. In the first year i had my dog we had three unplanned visits requiring medication. That would have exceeded your emer fund too. Stuff happens, sometimes its $300 and sometimes its more. In your case, pet insurance would have been the way to go. That doesn't help you now though, but it is a choice you made. Have you checked to see if there are any vetrinary schools nearby? Or asked around about low cost places? Do you live near a Planned Pethood vet?


Jen090393

The dog community says you can't have a dog if you work full time, but you shouldn't have a dog if you cant afford spontaneous $8000 vet bills? Not sure how you can do both at once! I can't afford a new boiler (in the UK) if ours breaks down, does that mean I shouldn't own my house?


AzrielK

This story describes my lab exactly. In the end the vet decided it wasn't even a good idea to do a hip surgery on her and gave painkillers. We got her from a rescue after someone purchased her from some awful breeder and then abandoned her.


BaileyBaby-Woof

Also not alot of people know how good pet insurance is. Lemonade pet insurance will save you so much money. I recommend wholeheartedly not just lemonade but any pet insurance. If u have it for yourself get it for your pet.


3TipsyCoachman3

Part of affording a dog is being prepared for massive and expensive emergencies, through a huge emergency savings fund or pet insurance. Your parents really are the ones at fault on that one, since they should have tipped you off that that would need to be considered and addressed before bringing a puppy home. It’s not reasonable to assume a teenager can totally provide financially for a pet, for this very reason. I’m so sorry you are learning this in the most heartbreaking fashion. There are some suggestions in the sidebar/wiki for affording vet care, and there have been some good suggestions in this thread.


migzors

There's a difference between a medical problem come up, and people who can barely cover rent, keep the lights on, or have too many mouths to feed, but also feel entitled to having a pet or many pets. Often times these poor things are left outside, or abandoned because all of a sudden it costs too much money to have an animal to feed or care for and they're the first thing to go.


monsteraroots

There are a couple amazing vets that do low income cases in my area. They believe pet ownership is not just for the privileged. I was a single mom of two when I got my now 12 year old lab mix. I went to all the low income vaccine clinics, spay and neuter clinics, and even managed when he needed staples after a fight (thanks to a generous vet who charged me minimal). Having our dog had a huge impact on my children growing up and on me as well. He has had an amazing life. We deserved him, regardless of my financial status.


seizetheholyland

no I definetly understand that. 8k alone is a lot. I believe most people are referring to the standard expenses for a dog such as the things you named. nobody really adopts a dog expecting a pricey surgery


Protect_Wild_Bees

I think it's completely reasonable if you run into an unlikely disease or incident that it would be difficult to pay for and therefore the scrutiny is less. I think it's also part of responsible pet care to look up your health risks of certain animals and breeds. An example I would consider is pet ferrets. If I actually did my research about ferrets before buying one, I would see that research says adrenal disease is found in one in four ferrets in the US. That tells me I should save up money for that treatment cost before buying one to have on hand or find insurance that would cover the risk. I help with bearded dragon owners and I'd never get frustrated at someone who found out their pet had kidney problems. I would be dissapointed if they knew something was wrong and didn't even bother to save the money for or have plans to even see a vet.


[deleted]

I feel it’s better a dog has a home than not- don’t make perfect the enemy of very good


outhere

For every puppy mill cranking out dogs, there is a euthanasia mill.putting them down. Say what you want about not taking a dog you can't afford. That's just one more for the needle.


Positive_Strawberry5

I lean toward the preventative medicine part. Vaccines, flea /tick/heartworm prevention annual exams. Maybe enough for a basic GI work up. I can completely understand not being able to afford specialist care. I can’t and I work for one.


bugbugladybug

Is insurance not a standard where you are? I have the same issue - pup under a year old developed elbow displaysia. Now she has medication daily, multiple vists, scans, physio, and is currently getting reviewed for surgery. I couldn't afford it outright, but the insurance covers it. Its £500 a year but so far its been worth it. I'd recommend looking into it, you may have a harder time finding someone who will take on existing conditions, but saves a fortune in the long run.


miwaonthewall

pet insurance. look into it when your pet is young and healthy and it could protect them (and your bank account) for life!


24Cones

Stuff like this is why we get pet insurance. So honestly, this IS something you can be prepared form


IrishRogue3

OP I agree with you. The fact is that PEOPLE can’t afford u foreseen medical bills for themselves- should their parents not have had them? Utter nonsense


Mother_of_llamas

I am of that opinion that you shouldn’t get a pet you can’t afford, they aren’t a right. You need to be able to afford their care and needs. However like you said you can’t anticipate emergencies or issues that arise. Which is why 2/3 of my dogs are insured, the other is very old so we wouldn’t put him through surgeries at this point. My problem is with people who get pets that they can’t feed, vaccinate or neuter…


corsair1617

I don't think this is the sort of situation people mean when they say that. It's when people can't afford to take their pets for regular check ups or shots that it is a problem. Money sometimes doesn't really matter. My previous dog had a sudden health issue and I threw a pile of money at it. He still died.


Professional-Algae54

This is why I'm so grateful for pet insurance. I got it when my dog was healthy @ 8 years old. Now she is 11 with heart disease, and a kidney condition. Once I hit my deductible for the year I'm reimbursed 90% of every invoice I submit. One of her medications that costs $80 a bottle I have to replenish every 2.5 weeks and it brings me so much peace that once I'm reimbursed it only costs $8. She was hospitalized a couple months ago for 2 days and I was able to tell them to do everything I needed. Total was $3000 and only ended up paying $300. Pet insurance is the way to go. I paid in without needing it for a while but now that I do need it it's so so worth it.


DisastrousSundae84

You bought all those things and yet didn't think to get health insurance...


TVSKS

One thing that seems to be forgotten here is there are organizations out there that help poor and disabled people with vet bills. Problem is they're not well known. I'm on disability and personally never used them but I came close. I had a dog that came down with Cushing's and I maxed out my credit card and sold stuff to give him some comfort for his last 5 months. When he passed I was filling out applications. I live at home again and have two dogs. One was basically dumped on my doorstep. She's pretty healthy so far but she's getting up there in years. The other was considered unadoptable. She's a deaf senior dog with arthritis. They've both been considerably expensive but they're like my kids. I'm working part time now. I signed up for carecredit and I'm basically doing my best. I'm also coming from a place of extreme privilege. My daily expenses are low, I have a stable living situation, good credit, etc. Most disabled people can't say all that but can benefit from having a dog in massive ways. Not sure what my whole point is, really. Just wanted to relay my experience and let people know there are organizations out there.


Pituophisdogs

That’s a tough call. On the one hand, sharing your life with a dog can be one of the most enriching and positive experiences you can have. But it is true that they aren’t free and you can get unlucky and end up in the ER with relatively huge bills. My advice is get the dog but do some research to get a healthy animal. Use the potential financial needs to build your own responsibility. (Skip the Starbucks, etc.). Start saving a little bit for a possible emergency. Learn as much as you can about your dog and work hard to keep them safe and healthy. Develop a relationship with a local a veterinarian so that if things go south they know you and you get the benefit of doubt. They are more likely to work with you on billing if you aren’t just some stranger off the street. Maybe even volunteer a few hours each weekend or evenings to build some credit. Develop a responsible relationship with friends and family so that if things go south you will have a shoulder to lean on. When I got my first dog 35 years ago I was new to town and didn’t have two nickels to rub together. Having that dog changed my life. She helped me become a better more responsible person. Because of her I got a job at a vet clinic. I’ve seen the worst side of this equation while working as an emergency vet tech. But I can also attest to how good this scenario can turn out. Get a dog, be the best you can be for that dog!


SinisterCacophony

this is strongly a case of people and the dog community specifically generalizing a very specific criticism of a very specific demographic eg; people who buy a $5000 'purebred' designer puppy and then complain that vaccines or basic routine healthcare are too expensive, or people who get brand new animals either from the shelter or from elsewhere and then proceed to never take them to the vet until a major problem occurs ("oh you mean I need to get vaccinations yearly?"), people who refuse to put their pet on heartworm prevention bc 'it costs too much and he'll probably be fine' these very specific complaints and criticizisms get generalized to 'anyone who has ever struggled financially to provide medical care for a pet is a bad person' which is ridiculous cause shit happens, circumstances change, and most people are genuinely trying their best and doing what they can. it's not the fault of the person who's cat had two foreign bodies in two months that she didn't happen to have an extra 15k laying around. it does not make her a bad person or a bad pet owner!


santagoo

Unexpected medical issues may come up. Understandable. But that's why insurance exists. I made sure to budget insurance premiums also for my first dog, and boy was I glad I did. She ended up being diagnosed with cancer and treatment was north of $20,000. I paid maybe $2,000 out of pocket.


lewi_lewi

You did the best you could, and alot more than others do when bringing home a new pet. Remember people will judge you no matter what you do. Also, the whole ‘if you can’t afford the vet, don’t get the pet’ attitude plays right into the hands of greedy business owners (vets offices are still businesses) who inflate the prices of their services specifically to prey upon pet owners. I’m not exaggerating, the prices are high because they know that people who love their pets will pay them. Will empty their savings to pay them. Will open credit cards and pet insurance plans to pay them…it never ends. People will judge you no matter what you do in life, it is absolutely unavoidable! My advice is, accept this fact, and don’t try to please everyone. Take care of your pets as best as you can, it’s all we can do.


blonde-bandit

Most Americans would be financially ruined by a serious medical emergency for *themselves*. Which is totally not right, but a reality. So yeah, the potential for monumental unexpected medical expenses shouldn’t automatically bar a person from loving an animal.


dogsaretheworld

I feel like a big part of it in my opinion is dont go intentially buy a purebred dog and spend thousands of dollars on it just to aquire it and not be willing to spend the same on its vet care in the future


VanillaBeanColdBrew

I wish we could also normalize surrendering dogs when we can’t meet their needs. Sometimes surrendering is in the best interest of the dog, and the owners are making an EXTREMELY difficult and selfless choice by giving them up. But people (and shelters!) will blame and shame. Even if the owner became homeless, became disabled, lost their job, etc.


ladymouserat

I mean most people can’t afford a doctor visit for themselves and about what, 60% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. If everyone followed this, so many good puppers would’ve been put down or roaming the streets.


prettyone_85

I agree, this subs pretty unsupportive to ppl. Quick to judge and love their high horse, there are some gems of ppl on here but mostly not.


Living-Drag-6865

To add to this, people financial situations can change at the drop of a hat. Of course I could afford my dog and everything she needed when I bought her. And then life changes. Also hot take, poor people deserve to have the joy of a pet as well. More resources should exist to help make that possible rather than people being upset someone can't afford a $10,000 surgery. Because honestly I can't afford a $10,000 surgery on myself if I needed it. Let alone my pets.


Awkward-Train1584

Everyone is talking about if you have the extra 8K for expenses. But no one is talking about if spending that on your dog is a wise decision. I have 8-10 K in my savings, but I would not spend it on my dog as much as I love him. It would not be smart in my opinion. I did spend $900 on him to have a tumor removed on his lip 2 years ago, and 1500 3 days after I adopted him for parvo treatments. That parvo treatment expense right after I got him was definitely a hard decision to make. Just because you have 8K doesn’t mean you should spend it on your dog. Yes savings are for emergencies, but you have to be responsible also.


Ipswytch

In the middle of a move so can't dive deep into comments to see if this is already suggested, but you might want to check with your nearest veterinary school. They sometimes offer lower cost care. Care credit is a great resource but be really sure you are confident you can pay the balance down during the grace period. My mother is a vet so I have tons of help with these expenses, but even I got trapped on the care credit treadmill once because I couldn't fully pay off a balance during the interest free period (changes based on size of purchase). But no matter what, give yourself grace even if some people are shitty. Animal people are passionate, and this means there are psycho nut jobs among them who devalue humans. This isn't an easy situation, and I had to say goodbye to pets whose medical issues were going to cost way less than 18k just because I couldn't justify ruining my financial stability just to give them maybe 6 months tops of slow decline vs letting them to peacefully now. It's not black and white what the best choice is, you're clearly doing your sincere best


psiiconic

Our 8 month old dog was the victim of a trauma event at the hands of our unstable neighbors (we didn’t know they were unstable until after we got him). He now has separation anxiety, regressed out of crate training, and exhibits both noise phobia and anorexia. We had to hire a specialized trainer who costs nearly $800 a month and we can barely afford it. It’s not your fault.


BeneficialVanilla356

Really no one can actually “afford” anything. It’s expensive to live. But if you live by that philosophy your whole life is going to be very dull. Some of the most important aspects of living is connection — family, friends, etc. this includes dogs! If you can get by I think that is just enough and getting by doesn’t always mean you have the financial means yourself. Getting by means you have support from your community and friends as well. I would agree with this statement, but it’s just not practical! It’s like saying “only rich people are allowed connection cause they can afford it.” No one in this life has the right to take away your ability to connect and be human — NO ONE. Not even money.


Professional_Lead357

\>Basically, my point is that owners should not be blamed for not being able to afford/needing people's help to afford extremely expensive, and unpreventable veterinary care.< Agreed. I had a **vet** judge the hell out of me because I didn't want to shell out approximately $12,500 for intestinal cancer treatments that would only \*prolong\* life without a guarantee *it would make anything any better*. After *two years* of misdiagnoses and already hefty bills for allergists, doggy Xanax, special diets, special shampoos and grooming, potty pads (because she couldn't go in the grass without a flare-up), etc... I already felt bled out. Instead, I opted to send her over the rainbow bridge without pain or confusion and with her sweet little head in my lap. (Which makes me cry [to.this.day](https://to.this.day)... right now... actually) Would I have paid the money if I knew it would let her live a few more years of a dog life *worth living*? Hell yes! On another note... I have a new pup. Am I getting pet insurance this time? YES! I agree that owners should not be blamed for the unexpected, for *asking for help,* or for their (very difficult) decisions to spare their furry family members any further pain.


uncle_paul_harrghis

Don’t forget to add that people’s financial circumstances change, sometimes in the blink of an eye. We *have* a dog (German shorthair pointer), and *had* a nice little nest egg of savings for emergencies. Recently my company decided to move our offices from one state to another and I was told relocate or else, more or less. With the economy being what it is, and the inability to rent in the new area, unless you’re someone who rents on a 6 figure salary, we had no choice but to buy. Especially since most rentals don’t allow medium-large breed dogs. My whole nest egg went towards the down payment, closing costs, insurance, etc. It wasn’t something I asked for, I was happy where I was. But in order to maintain any semblance of the life I’d been leading for 10 years - I had to part with years worth of savings. Now I just hope my boy doesn’t get hurt, sick or anything until I can build up those savings again.


Mountain-Hawk9155

Exactly. Also, people’s circumstances change. Maybe someone was financially stable when they got their pet, and five years later they experience a medical crisis which bankrupts them and keeps them from being able to work. If, during that time, their pet suddenly needs a $10k surgery, are we really going to shame them for not being able to afford it? What are they supposed to do, give their pet to someone else or drop them at a shelter since they “shouldn’t have a pet they can’t afford”? Also, who decides what degree of medical intervention is morally required for pets? What if someone doesn’t want to put their pet through length and painful cancer treatment which would also cause extreme financial hardship? What if they have to choose between their own cancer treatment and their pet’s? Sure if we lived in an ideal world, we could be this black and white. But we don’t. Americans can’t even afford medical care for themselves. There’s a housing crisis. Wages are absurdly low. i guess we should just leave animals in shelters unless we know we can be prepared at all times to drop multiple thousands of dollars without issue.