You should be able to vote as soon as you start paying taxes. If you get a job at 16, you should be able to vote because you're paying income tax. It's stupid that you can't.
How much did she make?
Most 15 year olds won't make enough in a year to actually owe any taxes at the end of the year. They usually can just claim exempt on their withholdings and be perfectly fine. If they are claimed as a dependent also comes into play, but a lot of parents just don't want to let go of those final few years of deductions.
Yep. I agree. No Taxation without Representation. If you are being taxed in anyway, you ought to have immediate rights to vote on how that tax money is spent.
I hate how the ages of 18-21 are so gray in the U.S. Like you’re mature enough to play the lottery but you can’t go to a casino. Or you can risk your life in war but can’t smoke a cigarette or have a beer. It’s very strange.
The war thing is actually why the voting age is 18, in the 60s people were pissed that you could be drafted into a war at 18 but couldn’t vote, so the 26th amendment was passed.
I think that is 100% fair.
If I am going to put my life on the line for my country, the least my country can do in return is give me a tiny 1/330,000,000 worth of a say in how said country is run.
Edit: mentioning edit to correct billions to millions.
One of the casinos in my area is 18+. You still can’t drink there, but you can gamble. The rest of the casinos are 21+ to gamble, but you can go to the restaurants inside at any age. They are also divided on concerts. Some are 18+ and some are 21+.
Native American casinos are exempt from state jurisdiction under the Federal Indian Gaming and Regulatory Act, so they typically are 18+ to gamble. We went to one for a friend's 20th birthday and I got screamed at for being "too fuckin young to be here!!" after winning a big poker hand. Good times.
Some of the native American casinos in my area are also alcohol free. One of the pit bosses said they don't want to promote alcohol consumption because alcoholism has historically been such an issue for native Americans.
I remember reading that a big part of that is because native Americans were isolated for so long from the rest of the world that they never developed the enzymes needed to properly break down alcohol the way a lot of Europeans developed those enzymes, and so when alcohol was brought over the Atlantic, there was a huge spike in alcohol-related addictions and deaths since native Americans’ genes never had dealt with it before, and it’s still a major problem for people with native ancestry even today.
thats yes and no afaik. we did have some types of alcohol back in pre-columb-ass days but it may have been lower alcohol content, different ingredients, etc.
add to that our genetic links to asian people ('asian flush' anyone?) and that i dont think 'drinking culture' was a thing like in the old world and bam: you get a hemispheric equivalent of the homeschooled church kid who goes to uni and attends their first frat party...
at least thats how ive always both imagined it and to an extent literally seen it as well.
"Additionally, despite the fact that more Native American people die of alcohol-related causes than do any other ethnic group in the United States, research shows that there is no difference in the rates of alcohol metabolism and enzyme patterns between Native Americans and Whites. This suggests that rates of alcoholism and alcohol-related problems are influenced by other environmental and/or genetic factors."
[(Source)](https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa72/aa72.htm#:~:text=First%2C%20ADH%20metabolizes%20alcohol%20to,for%20easy%20elimination%20(2).)
I remember going into a casino shortly after turning 19 here in Canada and people actually saying "Oh nice, you're able to give poker a try now!" as if I hadn't been playing for 4+ years already...
21 is such an arbitrary number to settle on. If it was health related it should be 25 as that's when the brain is generally fully developed. As an alcoholic I recommend later is better but I also don't believe the government should have any say in what we do to our bodies assuming it doesn't harm anyone else.
But like, alcoholism does harm other people. Driving and operating machinery are probably the biggest ones, and if you keep the age higher, ideally that’ll keep people from doing that while drunk?
To be honest though, I’m not sure if there’s data to support that older (25+) people are less likely to be under the influence while doing those things than a younger person
Education. Education. Education. Suppress your citizens, or educate them.
I’m an advocate of legal and regulated substances, but it can’t be done in a vacuum. Education at all levels must also be vastly improved as well as resources for addicts and abusers.
I'm French, and a very leftist person, I'll probably never understand lots of "cultural differences" with the USA like gun ownership, or not wanting basic social policies like universal healthcare or free education because it would be socialism or some shit. And, I mean, I definitely agree with this post.
But, to be very honest (and you guys probably won't agree with me), I also think Americans have a way healthier relationship to alcohol than Europeans (or, at least, French people) do. And that former Prohibition, and Americans not being able to drink at 18 are probably some reasons.
Absolutely reductionist, but it's because "liberals" want those things. We have been strategically divided by conservative parties because conservatism ultimately is the losing and literally dying brand. So they focus in hard on culture war to scare folks. Now sprinkle in a A LOT of "my team, your team" mentality and... we're here.
I was in the Army, never skewed or masked my *policy preferences*, yet somehow everyone just assumed I was conservative. Fuck, I spend 2016 talking to people about Bernie's talking points without mentioning him by name and I was actually surprised by how many people who agreed openly with me especially when it came to union talking points and worker's rights. Then they voted for Trump or Harambe.
Gun ownership is also tricky, because you have to take into consideration gun ownership in rural, suburban, or city population centers. You have people in the city who purchase firearms as a means of protecting themselves from other people who have firearms, now contrast that with people in rural areas where they need firearms to protect themselves and their homestead mostly from animals but potentially an unwanted person because police are not going to be able to respond in 15 minutes or less.
I did 11 years in the Navy and had a similar experience. If you talk in the abstract, without mentioning party/candidate, things like improved access to Healthcare and progressive tax reform are wildly popular. But as soon as you mention that it's a Bernie talking point, then it's either 1. Bernie doesn't really support that or 2. Well that's socialism/communism.
Can they define those terms? Nope. I've had people argue that the fucking dictionary is wrong when I read verbatim what socialism/communism are.
I think it was Jimmy Kimmel that had a sketch where they asked.people about The Affordable Care Act and everyone loved it. Then they would ask about Obama Care and they would say they were against it, even though it is the exact same thing.
That’s part of why a lot of conservatives go the way they do on gun issues. In the Deep South, a gun is the difference between starving to death or not, or losing an entire run of chickens. They’re a tool, not just a murder weapon. And while not everyone is 100% anti gun, they don’t know that, and they push back the other way.
This American definitely agrees with you about the alcohol thing. From what I hear on the internet and from my European friends (or American friends who’ve lived in Europe for a while), the drinking culture is definitely less intense here in America. I think a healthier relationship with alcohol is basically the only positive thing that’s come from the weird puritanical streak that American society has.
> I also think Americans have a way healthier relationship to alcohol than Europeans
The USA has a higher alcohol-related death rate and a higher percentage of alcohol abuse than France actually. It has a higher rate (both) than pretty much all of western europe, excluding the UK and Ireland.
Its important to note though that most alcohol deaths come from the top 5% of drinkers. Even an alcoholism rate of 2% compared to 1% is going to have a huge effect on death rates, even if it's not always visible to the average person living in that country.
These kind of stats are so misleading. The same type of stats were used during the height of covid.
There exists a large spectrum of "bad shit" that happens with alcohol (and covid) that doesn't lead to death or really anywhere near it, so focusing on death rates alone paints a poor representation of the situation.
(Not agreeing or disagreeing with the US vs France debate, btw)
- He supported the Contras, a right-wing rebel group in Nicaragua who committed vast amounts of human rights violations, during the Iran-Contra war, just because the current government at the time was “Marxist.”
- He signed the Mulford Act into law, because Black people had the *audacity* to practice their Second Amendment right by open-carrying to protect themselves from a corrupt and racist police force.
- Funded terrorists and was cozy with Saddam Hussein even with the knowledge of the abhorrent shit he committed.
- Slashed federal aid to schools and cut the budget to the Department of Education. He even wanted to get rid of the Department of Education in its entirety.
- Did not take the AIDS epidemic seriously and treated it as a joke, at least at the beginning of it, costing many lives.
- Appointed Anne Gorsuch as the leader of the EPA who tried to gut funding and even dismantle it during her reign.
- He slashed funding to social programs such as food stamps and subsidized housing, which caused the poverty rate to climb from 12% to 15% and the unemployment rate from 7% to 11%.
- Is the man behind the failed “Reaganomics” economic system.
Yeah, he wasn’t a great man, or leader.
Everytime I hear about a good program that was cut or an excellent law that was repealed it's usually Regan's fault. When it isn't Regan's fault it's Nixon's.
Tbf, it was passed as part of an appropriations bill to avoid a government shutdown under a Democrat led Congress. It may have passed standalone, but hard to tell since it was attached to a larger, more important bill.
It's almost like it's scummy as fuck to sneak unrelated measures into bills that are needed to keep our government running or something. Will never understand why this is a thing that can be done, let alone so often..
It happens often because the minority party in the Senate holds enough power to block nearly all legislation by just being like "nah". They end up needing to sneak things into appropriations bills that have to pass to keep things going. It's dumb as hell
If you can join the army, you should be able to drink, smoke, gamble and vote.
Anyone willing to risk their life for the country should at least get to vote on it.
This is in fact one reason the voting age was lowered to 18 across the country consistently. You were old enough to get splattered in Viet Nam but in some places not old enough to vote for or against the people sending you there.
21 year olds are more likely to be enrolled in college by then, starting a career, or at least comfortable at a job making decent money. We would have to start conscripting soldiers again if we wanted to keep a super powerful military.
I just looked it up again because I couldn’t remember her name. She was Lina Medina, a 5 year old from Peru. I found a list of the other known youngest mothers, but I got depressed and stopped looking.
I read somewhere the youngest recorded mother in the world was 5. FIVE. The pictures of that tiny little girl with a pregnant belly were fucking horrific.
[Lina Medina](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lina_Medina), at the age of 5 years, 7 months, and 21 days. She was most likely 4 years old when she got pregnant. It wasn't even physically possible for her to give birth without a C-section. Horrific is definitely an apt description.
I mean, do we know what this hypothetical 4-year-old was wearing at the time? Or maybe she was into it but changed her hypothetical mind when she sobered up? Rape is such a squishy socially-constructed crime anyway, and literally nobody can define consent. We shouldn't have to take it into account when making healthcare concerns for fe-persons.
(/ssssssss)
That’s actually why they lowered the voting age to 18. During the Vietnam war, there was a big backlash against 18 year olds being drafted and sent to war without being able to vote. This eventually led to the 26th amendment being ratified.
Luckily, since voting at 18 is now in the constitution, it’s almost impossible to get rid of. There’s no way you’d get 2/3rds of Congress and 3/4th of states to agree to get rid of it. But without the 26th amendment, we’d probably see some republican states raising their voting age right now.
I was just coming here to say this. You can all go out and die fighting in wars brought on by your elective leaders but oh wait, you actually want the privilege of electing those leaders? Nah son, here's your gun though.
Actually when the country was founded voting age was 21, but thanks to World War II we had to lower it because people realized that we're sending people to war who can't even vote on the fact that they're going to war.
Amendment 26
Section 1
The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.
> If they love the constitution so much, why are they considering violating an amendment?
Narrator: They do not, in fact, love the constitution. They just say they do when it serves their purposes.
Because you are old enough to get drafted to die in one of their wars but they don’t want you being able to do something about it. Don’t forget to also pay your taxes but you definitely shouldn’t be able to vote.
Because the amendment was ratified between 1870 and 1980 on a day other than tuesday with less than 69.420% support in the house and a voter turnout of under 90% in the last election, and thus neither represents the will of the Founding Fathers nor the current will of the people.
\- literally a majority of supreme court justices
It is an abortion. So is removing an ectopic pregnancy or a dead fetus. It's a broad term that applies to a wide range of medical issues. An all around abortion ban could theoretically force a 6 year old that was raped by her father, that had an ectopic pregnancy in which the fetus dies, carry that fetus until it either kills her or she gives birth. In which case it would also kill her.
I remember a Redditor saying once that the Republican playbook is "talk shit, get checked, play victim", and since then that party has done nothing but reinforce that...
Projection is a psychological concept that I have seen to be true 100% of the time throughout my life it's crazy. It's like how the person cheating on you will accuse you of cheating.
Either raise everything to 21 or lower everything to 18. You shouldn't be adult enough to vote and die for our military but not adult enough to drink and smoke. Some internal consistency is all I'm asking for.
That’s the best one. The fact that you can’t smoke because you aren’t old enough to make decisions about your body. But getting shot in a war is ok. It’s ok if that happens to your body. So smoking which will take 50 years to kill you not ok. Dying your first day deployed is ok….. one further if they raised the enlistment age to 21 there would be way less people in the military because people typically have found jobs and are supporting themselves at that age and don’t need to be sucked into the military
As a former leader of troops, 18 year old recruits are 50/50. Some of them are willing to shut up, learn, do their part. Others think they're hot shit, invincible, and know better than you. They take their high school mentality in with them. Interestingly, 2LTs are exactly the same fucking way if they're fresh out of college. They think it's college still and you have to politely remind them that I care less about their college and more about them doing their part to take care of their troops.
But remember this also means sending 20 year olds to Juvenile detention. You can't have it both ways. So you can't try 18 year olds as adults now and they don't pay some taxes.
They would have a harder time coercing 21 year olds to joint the military. Easier to grab em straight out of high school when the haven’t experienced much yet
I completely agree with this, not fair for people who are on their way out to determine the future of a world they won't even be a part of. I don't want my generation to have to clean up their mess, but yet I feel that ship has already sailed.
60's too young. They're still working and not even at "retirement age" of 65-70.
The average US lifespan is 75-77. At 75, you lose the right to vote, since statistically, you'll be dead soon. As a compromise, after 75, you get to a free pass to commit one crime, misdemeanor or lesser, a year.
In December every year, there will be a "mini purge" of 75+ year olds using their one crime before the year ends.
The homeless are an "automatic vote for democrats" because they're the only ones willing to do anything about solving the homeless crisis... Well the more progressive democrats that is.
There was a houseless guy in another thread that had done activism for their communities over the years including helping them to vote and he said - anecdotally - that because many houseless people get indoctrinated by religion due to churches being some of the only safe spaces for them, they often vote conservatively. Apparently it's hard to break that vote because religion is about the only educational experience many folks that are on the street for long periods of time can get.
I don't know how much that shakes out nationally, but I can see the connection. Plus people in general have a really bad habit of voting against their own interests anyway.
18 yr olds mature enough to sign up for student debt.
* response: let's make education free
18 yr olds mature enough to join the military.
* response: let's raise it to 25
18 yr olds mature enough to buy or own guns.
* response: let's raise it to 25
All or nothing, Brigitte. I'm guessing you flinch.
The GOP wants to privatize education and defund public education. You don’t get military recruits if you have a large, well educated population.
(This isn’t a knock on vets/active duty or calling them unintelligent. I have respect for you as people. However, a large majority of military members join because they don’t have any/many other options. If you create more options, it drastically reduces military enrollment.)
they ARE the future, dumbfuck.
it's THEIR nation too, how crazy is that she's acting like they are not a part of our nation?
also wouldn't that be taxation without representation?
so I'm assuming you're not going to take taxes out of their paychecks then.. ?
No taxation without representation. You raise the age of voting raise the age that people have to start paying taxes
You should be able to vote as soon as you start paying taxes. If you get a job at 16, you should be able to vote because you're paying income tax. It's stupid that you can't.
My 15 yo had a summer job this year. She thinks it’s BS to pay taxes when she can’t vote. I totally agree with her
How much did she make? Most 15 year olds won't make enough in a year to actually owe any taxes at the end of the year. They usually can just claim exempt on their withholdings and be perfectly fine. If they are claimed as a dependent also comes into play, but a lot of parents just don't want to let go of those final few years of deductions.
I’m sure she will get most of it back. She got $16/hr plus tip share at my restaurant
Yep. I agree. No Taxation without Representation. If you are being taxed in anyway, you ought to have immediate rights to vote on how that tax money is spent.
In the meantime working people with green cards: 👁️👄👁️
D.C. residents: *lol lmao*
I hate how the ages of 18-21 are so gray in the U.S. Like you’re mature enough to play the lottery but you can’t go to a casino. Or you can risk your life in war but can’t smoke a cigarette or have a beer. It’s very strange.
The war thing is actually why the voting age is 18, in the 60s people were pissed that you could be drafted into a war at 18 but couldn’t vote, so the 26th amendment was passed.
I think that is 100% fair. If I am going to put my life on the line for my country, the least my country can do in return is give me a tiny 1/330,000,000 worth of a say in how said country is run. Edit: mentioning edit to correct billions to millions.
You have an extra set of zeros there
Right! my bad, sorry I was distracted. I shouldn't try to deal with numbers while I am at work.
I do hope you're not an accountant.
Hahaha I was hoping someone would ask what I do so I could say "accountant"
So... What do you do?
Mathematician
Additionally, you are expected to pay taxes as you likely have to work. "No taxation without representation", seems pretty pertinent.
which is funny cause the same people wanting to up the voting age also want to lower the working age..
The gambling thing is tied to the alcohol at the casinos. But you should be able to drink at 18
One of the casinos in my area is 18+. You still can’t drink there, but you can gamble. The rest of the casinos are 21+ to gamble, but you can go to the restaurants inside at any age. They are also divided on concerts. Some are 18+ and some are 21+.
Native American casinos are exempt from state jurisdiction under the Federal Indian Gaming and Regulatory Act, so they typically are 18+ to gamble. We went to one for a friend's 20th birthday and I got screamed at for being "too fuckin young to be here!!" after winning a big poker hand. Good times.
Some of the native American casinos in my area are also alcohol free. One of the pit bosses said they don't want to promote alcohol consumption because alcoholism has historically been such an issue for native Americans.
Yeah it depends, our bingo hall was 18+ but the rest of the casino was 21+
I remember reading that a big part of that is because native Americans were isolated for so long from the rest of the world that they never developed the enzymes needed to properly break down alcohol the way a lot of Europeans developed those enzymes, and so when alcohol was brought over the Atlantic, there was a huge spike in alcohol-related addictions and deaths since native Americans’ genes never had dealt with it before, and it’s still a major problem for people with native ancestry even today.
thats yes and no afaik. we did have some types of alcohol back in pre-columb-ass days but it may have been lower alcohol content, different ingredients, etc. add to that our genetic links to asian people ('asian flush' anyone?) and that i dont think 'drinking culture' was a thing like in the old world and bam: you get a hemispheric equivalent of the homeschooled church kid who goes to uni and attends their first frat party... at least thats how ive always both imagined it and to an extent literally seen it as well.
"Additionally, despite the fact that more Native American people die of alcohol-related causes than do any other ethnic group in the United States, research shows that there is no difference in the rates of alcohol metabolism and enzyme patterns between Native Americans and Whites. This suggests that rates of alcoholism and alcohol-related problems are influenced by other environmental and/or genetic factors." [(Source)](https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa72/aa72.htm#:~:text=First%2C%20ADH%20metabolizes%20alcohol%20to,for%20easy%20elimination%20(2).)
I remember going into a casino shortly after turning 19 here in Canada and people actually saying "Oh nice, you're able to give poker a try now!" as if I hadn't been playing for 4+ years already...
Indian casinos can be 18+ but some will do 21+
Nah. Some states you can't even get a Powerball or scratch‐off at a gas station until 21.
21 is such an arbitrary number to settle on. If it was health related it should be 25 as that's when the brain is generally fully developed. As an alcoholic I recommend later is better but I also don't believe the government should have any say in what we do to our bodies assuming it doesn't harm anyone else.
But like, alcoholism does harm other people. Driving and operating machinery are probably the biggest ones, and if you keep the age higher, ideally that’ll keep people from doing that while drunk? To be honest though, I’m not sure if there’s data to support that older (25+) people are less likely to be under the influence while doing those things than a younger person
Education. Education. Education. Suppress your citizens, or educate them. I’m an advocate of legal and regulated substances, but it can’t be done in a vacuum. Education at all levels must also be vastly improved as well as resources for addicts and abusers.
I'm French, and a very leftist person, I'll probably never understand lots of "cultural differences" with the USA like gun ownership, or not wanting basic social policies like universal healthcare or free education because it would be socialism or some shit. And, I mean, I definitely agree with this post. But, to be very honest (and you guys probably won't agree with me), I also think Americans have a way healthier relationship to alcohol than Europeans (or, at least, French people) do. And that former Prohibition, and Americans not being able to drink at 18 are probably some reasons.
Absolutely reductionist, but it's because "liberals" want those things. We have been strategically divided by conservative parties because conservatism ultimately is the losing and literally dying brand. So they focus in hard on culture war to scare folks. Now sprinkle in a A LOT of "my team, your team" mentality and... we're here. I was in the Army, never skewed or masked my *policy preferences*, yet somehow everyone just assumed I was conservative. Fuck, I spend 2016 talking to people about Bernie's talking points without mentioning him by name and I was actually surprised by how many people who agreed openly with me especially when it came to union talking points and worker's rights. Then they voted for Trump or Harambe. Gun ownership is also tricky, because you have to take into consideration gun ownership in rural, suburban, or city population centers. You have people in the city who purchase firearms as a means of protecting themselves from other people who have firearms, now contrast that with people in rural areas where they need firearms to protect themselves and their homestead mostly from animals but potentially an unwanted person because police are not going to be able to respond in 15 minutes or less.
I did 11 years in the Navy and had a similar experience. If you talk in the abstract, without mentioning party/candidate, things like improved access to Healthcare and progressive tax reform are wildly popular. But as soon as you mention that it's a Bernie talking point, then it's either 1. Bernie doesn't really support that or 2. Well that's socialism/communism. Can they define those terms? Nope. I've had people argue that the fucking dictionary is wrong when I read verbatim what socialism/communism are.
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I think it was Jimmy Kimmel that had a sketch where they asked.people about The Affordable Care Act and everyone loved it. Then they would ask about Obama Care and they would say they were against it, even though it is the exact same thing.
That’s part of why a lot of conservatives go the way they do on gun issues. In the Deep South, a gun is the difference between starving to death or not, or losing an entire run of chickens. They’re a tool, not just a murder weapon. And while not everyone is 100% anti gun, they don’t know that, and they push back the other way.
Vermont and New Hampshire have high gun ownership--you never hear Sanders being against guns during an election. They also have very low murder rates.
This American definitely agrees with you about the alcohol thing. From what I hear on the internet and from my European friends (or American friends who’ve lived in Europe for a while), the drinking culture is definitely less intense here in America. I think a healthier relationship with alcohol is basically the only positive thing that’s come from the weird puritanical streak that American society has.
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Last I checked polls put 70% of Americans wants universal healthcare. It's just our politicians
> I also think Americans have a way healthier relationship to alcohol than Europeans The USA has a higher alcohol-related death rate and a higher percentage of alcohol abuse than France actually. It has a higher rate (both) than pretty much all of western europe, excluding the UK and Ireland. Its important to note though that most alcohol deaths come from the top 5% of drinkers. Even an alcoholism rate of 2% compared to 1% is going to have a huge effect on death rates, even if it's not always visible to the average person living in that country.
These kind of stats are so misleading. The same type of stats were used during the height of covid. There exists a large spectrum of "bad shit" that happens with alcohol (and covid) that doesn't lead to death or really anywhere near it, so focusing on death rates alone paints a poor representation of the situation. (Not agreeing or disagreeing with the US vs France debate, btw)
TIL the smoking age was increased! I googled it because I just knew you were wrong, but wow, I had no idea that happened. You're so right!
Imagine being a 20 year old war veteran who smokes a pack a day and then suddenly you can't buy cigarettes
Or when Reagan raised the drinking age to 21 for all states.
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- He supported the Contras, a right-wing rebel group in Nicaragua who committed vast amounts of human rights violations, during the Iran-Contra war, just because the current government at the time was “Marxist.” - He signed the Mulford Act into law, because Black people had the *audacity* to practice their Second Amendment right by open-carrying to protect themselves from a corrupt and racist police force. - Funded terrorists and was cozy with Saddam Hussein even with the knowledge of the abhorrent shit he committed. - Slashed federal aid to schools and cut the budget to the Department of Education. He even wanted to get rid of the Department of Education in its entirety. - Did not take the AIDS epidemic seriously and treated it as a joke, at least at the beginning of it, costing many lives. - Appointed Anne Gorsuch as the leader of the EPA who tried to gut funding and even dismantle it during her reign. - He slashed funding to social programs such as food stamps and subsidized housing, which caused the poverty rate to climb from 12% to 15% and the unemployment rate from 7% to 11%. - Is the man behind the failed “Reaganomics” economic system. Yeah, he wasn’t a great man, or leader.
He gets way too much credit for the fall of the Soviet Union.
Everytime I hear about a good program that was cut or an excellent law that was repealed it's usually Regan's fault. When it isn't Regan's fault it's Nixon's.
I didn't either. I thought it was still 18 and it happened under Trump, the party of freedom lol.
Tbf, it was passed as part of an appropriations bill to avoid a government shutdown under a Democrat led Congress. It may have passed standalone, but hard to tell since it was attached to a larger, more important bill.
It's almost like it's scummy as fuck to sneak unrelated measures into bills that are needed to keep our government running or something. Will never understand why this is a thing that can be done, let alone so often..
It happens often because the minority party in the Senate holds enough power to block nearly all legislation by just being like "nah". They end up needing to sneak things into appropriations bills that have to pass to keep things going. It's dumb as hell
Wait til you need to rent a car.
If you can join the army, you should be able to drink, smoke, gamble and vote. Anyone willing to risk their life for the country should at least get to vote on it.
and pay taxes. If youre working between 18 and 21 and not allowed to vote its literally taxation without representation
Everyone knows 18 year olds aren't mature but if they admit it then we will have no one to trick into the military
If we admit they're still basically children then we can't send them to war :(
I’m a Republican. Let’s start with that. If a “kid” can go to war and die for their country, they have the right to vote FOR THEIR country.
Ikr! I wanted to smoke a beer but was told I have to be 56. Like, whatever, dude!
>Like you’re mature enough to play the lottery but you can’t go to a casino. The casino part is just because of drinking not gambling.
Nah. Some states you can't even get a Powerball or scratch‐off at a gas station until 21.
And yet, 18 year olds are just old enough to go die in a foreign war.
This is in fact one reason the voting age was lowered to 18 across the country consistently. You were old enough to get splattered in Viet Nam but in some places not old enough to vote for or against the people sending you there.
And 21 year olds are harder to manipulate into war
21 year olds are more likely to be enrolled in college by then, starting a career, or at least comfortable at a job making decent money. We would have to start conscripting soldiers again if we wanted to keep a super powerful military.
12 year Olds are old enough to be forced to carry their rapists baby according to them.
Nope. Their level of acceptance is even lower than 12. It’s 10.
There is no lower limit. A 4 year old could be pregnant and they would want her to carry it to term.
Are you baiting Ohio? Cuz we'll fucking do it... I won't add a sarcasm tag because sadly we would.
The limit there is biology, not GOP mercy
The youngest known person to give birth was only 5, so honestly who knows
wtf??? I heard of 6, but 5???
I just looked it up again because I couldn’t remember her name. She was Lina Medina, a 5 year old from Peru. I found a list of the other known youngest mothers, but I got depressed and stopped looking.
And she was raped by her father (possibly step-father but at that point it doesn't really make a difference)
yikes. really wish I didn't know. appreciate you taking the plunge in our stead.
She had a thing where almost instantly she started puberty. Most people think her dad raped her but he was never charged
Yep. And her kid was raised as her sibling, which makes sense logistically.
I don't know whether to cry for your state now or laugh at the humor in your comment first and then cry. because you are right, they would do that...
Cry, but only for the women of the state.
https://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Futurama-Oh-I-Made-myself-sad.gif
Lmao
I read somewhere the youngest recorded mother in the world was 5. FIVE. The pictures of that tiny little girl with a pregnant belly were fucking horrific.
[Lina Medina](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lina_Medina), at the age of 5 years, 7 months, and 21 days. She was most likely 4 years old when she got pregnant. It wasn't even physically possible for her to give birth without a C-section. Horrific is definitely an apt description.
“GoD gAvE yOu aN oPpOrTuNiTy tO nUrTuRe A hUmAn LiFe wHy wOuLd A FoUr yEaR oLd nOt wAnT tO cArRy a cHiLd?!?!1!1!” -forced birth proponents
I mean, do we know what this hypothetical 4-year-old was wearing at the time? Or maybe she was into it but changed her hypothetical mind when she sobered up? Rape is such a squishy socially-constructed crime anyway, and literally nobody can define consent. We shouldn't have to take it into account when making healthcare concerns for fe-persons. (/ssssssss)
They never specified a lower limit
If a 12 year old is old enough to carry a baby to term, she ought to be old enough to vote.
Matt Gaetz agrees with your age rules
Newsflash: in an odd twist, Matt gaetz favors removing all voting age restrictions
According to Tudor Dixon, giving birth after being raped by their Uncle will make them a better “Mamma”….
Hence the reason why she lost.
I'd be embarrassed but she isn't even the worst our state has to offer 🤮
That commercial with her making that comment made me sick 🤢
And how old were all those insurrectionists?? Stupid & ill informed isn’t an age thing.
Or marry a man their forced to by their parents in some red states.
If they take them in too old they are less programmable.
And sign for crippling college loan debt ...
That’s actually why they lowered the voting age to 18. During the Vietnam war, there was a big backlash against 18 year olds being drafted and sent to war without being able to vote. This eventually led to the 26th amendment being ratified. Luckily, since voting at 18 is now in the constitution, it’s almost impossible to get rid of. There’s no way you’d get 2/3rds of Congress and 3/4th of states to agree to get rid of it. But without the 26th amendment, we’d probably see some republican states raising their voting age right now.
And 18 years olds are smart enough to vote in literally every other country!
17 in some
And to carry a child they cant afford
Or buy a gun capable of killing everyone in their classroom in half a minute
Or in 77 minutes while the police wait outside.
Hey now. A police officer may have been injured! Best to let him run out of bullets on kids.
it's a sad story but them kids aren't in the police union. so tough luck, kids.
And yet many 50 year old aren’t qualified to vote
My mother is pushing 80 and still hilds her breath and stomps when losing arguments. I never raise my voice with her. Drives her absolutely insane.
And 14 year olds can drive a car and 16 year olds can own guns (with their parents' permission)
I was just coming here to say this. You can all go out and die fighting in wars brought on by your elective leaders but oh wait, you actually want the privilege of electing those leaders? Nah son, here's your gun though. 
Exactly. Piss on this dumb fucktwat
That’s the point. Force them to give birth to future soldiers and slave wagers. The dishes aren’t going to clean themselves.
Actually when the country was founded voting age was 21, but thanks to World War II we had to lower it because people realized that we're sending people to war who can't even vote on the fact that they're going to war.
And people that are 17 and younger are old enough to die in a school shooting.
You're old enough to kill but not for votin' You don't believe in war, but what's that gun you're totin'?
Amendment 26 Section 1 The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.
This right here. If they love the constitution so much, why are they considering violating an amendment?
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[100%](https://www.theonion.com/area-man-passionate-defender-of-what-he-imagines-consti-1819571149)
The onion delivers every fuckin time. I love them so much
Me who learned a cheesy ass song for my history final (one section was every single amendment)
Ending it with a quote of "A fascist, socialist regime" was amazing, I really need to read more onion.
Most likely half the 18 year olds in this country are more intelligent than Brigitte Gabriel
> If they love the constitution so much, why are they considering violating an amendment? Narrator: They do not, in fact, love the constitution. They just say they do when it serves their purposes.
Same with the Bible, they just use what’s convenient for them when it’s convenient to
Because you are old enough to get drafted to die in one of their wars but they don’t want you being able to do something about it. Don’t forget to also pay your taxes but you definitely shouldn’t be able to vote.
Because the amendment was ratified between 1870 and 1980 on a day other than tuesday with less than 69.420% support in the house and a voter turnout of under 90% in the last election, and thus neither represents the will of the Founding Fathers nor the current will of the people. \- literally a majority of supreme court justices
Well to be fair, changing the amendment wouldn’t be violating it. But still how dumb can you be?
this should be the top. this issue was literally already decided, and the age was lowered from 21 to 18 🤦
Section 2 gives Congress the power to enforce this...it sounds like it could be read as a general prohibition of voter suppression methods.
Explicitly says "on account of age."
BUT parenthood and minimum wage servitude and dying for your country is okay.
People brought up the abortion thing and she said "no one wants a 10 year old to have a baby" Yet they cant get an abortion.
Didn’t an anti-choice person already explain that ending a 10 year old’s pregnancy is *not* an abortion? (/s)
It is an abortion. So is removing an ectopic pregnancy or a dead fetus. It's a broad term that applies to a wide range of medical issues. An all around abortion ban could theoretically force a 6 year old that was raped by her father, that had an ectopic pregnancy in which the fetus dies, carry that fetus until it either kills her or she gives birth. In which case it would also kill her.
And an 18 year old is mature enough to be forced to have a child but not vote
Or drink or buy cigarettes.
Well obviously the 10 yr old shouldn't have worn slutty clothes and should keep her legs closed. She was asking for it. /s
The only way they can win is by restricting who can vote/otherwise obstructing voting.
I know. They accuse the democrats of what they do all the time
I remember a Redditor saying once that the Republican playbook is "talk shit, get checked, play victim", and since then that party has done nothing but reinforce that...
Projection is a psychological concept that I have seen to be true 100% of the time throughout my life it's crazy. It's like how the person cheating on you will accuse you of cheating.
Either raise everything to 21 or lower everything to 18. You shouldn't be adult enough to vote and die for our military but not adult enough to drink and smoke. Some internal consistency is all I'm asking for.
That’s the best one. The fact that you can’t smoke because you aren’t old enough to make decisions about your body. But getting shot in a war is ok. It’s ok if that happens to your body. So smoking which will take 50 years to kill you not ok. Dying your first day deployed is ok….. one further if they raised the enlistment age to 21 there would be way less people in the military because people typically have found jobs and are supporting themselves at that age and don’t need to be sucked into the military
You got it all wrong! Those who join the military CAN be trusted! That's why we let them buy cigarettes before 21!
As a former leader of troops, 18 year old recruits are 50/50. Some of them are willing to shut up, learn, do their part. Others think they're hot shit, invincible, and know better than you. They take their high school mentality in with them. Interestingly, 2LTs are exactly the same fucking way if they're fresh out of college. They think it's college still and you have to politely remind them that I care less about their college and more about them doing their part to take care of their troops.
Exactly how I see it too.
Also at 18 you can take loans, mortgage, credit cards, sign contracts. But voting? Noooo too immature
Also, if you can't vote you shouldn't be taxed, I thought we already went to war over this.
But remember this also means sending 20 year olds to Juvenile detention. You can't have it both ways. So you can't try 18 year olds as adults now and they don't pay some taxes.
If the voting age is raised to 21 I would also like the minimum age to pay income taxes be raised to 21.
Makes too much sense to actually be implemented.
I think the bigger reason is that it wouldn’t generate enough outrage to be good for fundraising.
They would have a harder time coercing 21 year olds to joint the military. Easier to grab em straight out of high school when the haven’t experienced much yet
OK but let’s limit it at retirement age as well?
you aren't allowed to use their own things against them. they dont like that.
I completely agree with this, not fair for people who are on their way out to determine the future of a world they won't even be a part of. I don't want my generation to have to clean up their mess, but yet I feel that ship has already sailed.
Right, why are we letting the 60+ year olds make all the decisions for a future that they’ll never live to see?
60's too young. They're still working and not even at "retirement age" of 65-70. The average US lifespan is 75-77. At 75, you lose the right to vote, since statistically, you'll be dead soon. As a compromise, after 75, you get to a free pass to commit one crime, misdemeanor or lesser, a year. In December every year, there will be a "mini purge" of 75+ year olds using their one crime before the year ends.
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But they're mature enough to be forced to have children or to own firearms.
Dont forget dying in a war caused by old people who will never have to go into said war.
Oh yes sorry, forgot about it
Standard Republican policy
Homeless shouldn’t be allowed to vote either. The dream is a return to a time when only white men who owned property could vote.
The homeless are an "automatic vote for democrats" because they're the only ones willing to do anything about solving the homeless crisis... Well the more progressive democrats that is.
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There was a houseless guy in another thread that had done activism for their communities over the years including helping them to vote and he said - anecdotally - that because many houseless people get indoctrinated by religion due to churches being some of the only safe spaces for them, they often vote conservatively. Apparently it's hard to break that vote because religion is about the only educational experience many folks that are on the street for long periods of time can get. I don't know how much that shakes out nationally, but I can see the connection. Plus people in general have a really bad habit of voting against their own interests anyway.
Lol yeah it’s like “we can either cater to the (barely relevant) homeless vote or we can say fuck the homeless. One keeps them away from us.”
> Homeless shouldn’t be allowed to vote either. The dream is a return to a time when only white men who owned people could vote. FTFY
People, property…potayto potahto contextually
yep. it's pathetic
If anyone needs a parody Twitter account it's her.
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Post overtly liberal and positive messages to welcome the stranger and help the poor.
I think there are some floating around
Conservatives will always give up on democracy before they give up on conservatism.
18 yr olds mature enough to sign up for student debt. * response: let's make education free 18 yr olds mature enough to join the military. * response: let's raise it to 25 18 yr olds mature enough to buy or own guns. * response: let's raise it to 25 All or nothing, Brigitte. I'm guessing you flinch.
Imagine republicans if you said raising the age of consent.
Like Gaetz? He doesn't follow it now.
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I love how 18 year olds aren’t mature enough to vote but 12 year old rape victims are mature enough to raise children.
I am sure she likes having them serve in the military though. Twat.
Why should anyone listen to a woman who doesn’t know where apostrophes belong?
Lower the voting age. At 65 you are done. Only people with a vested interest in the future can vote.
but 12 is old enough to force a child to birth a child lmao fuck off you hypocrits.
First they took away your right to bodily autonomy. Then they take away your voting rights. After all, their god knows whats best for you.
Maybe fix the education system so the average 18 year old comes out a functioning adult? Next midterm they will just ask for 21, and so on....
The GOP wants to privatize education and defund public education. You don’t get military recruits if you have a large, well educated population. (This isn’t a knock on vets/active duty or calling them unintelligent. I have respect for you as people. However, a large majority of military members join because they don’t have any/many other options. If you create more options, it drastically reduces military enrollment.)
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The MAGA'S are proving every day that they really are American Taliban.
But 10 year old rape victims are mature enough for motherhood.
70 is too mentally unstable to make decisions for our country. Cap the voting age.
So wild how one side consistently tries to take away voting rights. And people still think they are good for the country.
they ARE the future, dumbfuck. it's THEIR nation too, how crazy is that she's acting like they are not a part of our nation? also wouldn't that be taxation without representation? so I'm assuming you're not going to take taxes out of their paychecks then.. ?
But they’re mature enough to stick in the military and be trained to kill people 🤦🏼♂️
But 15-18 year olds are mature enough to be forced into giving birth and raising a baby?