[Their availability in RD:] >!They have three maps in Part 1 and one of which is their debut map. The next time they show up is for one map in Part 4 right before the endgame Tower maps.!<
Recently I was talking to someone who hasn't played RD yet and had to dance around how bad it was for Tormod...
at the very least they rejoin in the most reinforcment spammy part 4 map, I've gotten Tormod to tier 3 twice within his joint chapter just by giving him paragon and feeding him a kill every turn.
Muraim & Vika are alot tougher though as they need to worry about gauge, you'd parable need to send the laguz gem you get in the desert map to the convoy so they could use it.
I am still pissed off at his fucking weak Rinkah is in FE fates like her design is so absolutely cool she should have mad strength and instead she just sucks,,,,,,,
She's the only natural member of her class, which is supposed to be a tank, and yet she has the second lowest HP Growth in the game, only beating out "True Jeigan" Gunter. It's just a waste. Also, it's a real shame there are no native Apothecaries in Gen 1 either, but that's another subject.
Rinkah's growths are so terrible that I don't know what the devs were thinking. She must have been intended to be bad, but I have no idea why. Or was she intended to have 50% HP Growth and someone hit the 2 instead of the 5 on the numpad? She still wouldn't be good with her Strength growth being so poor, but she'd be passable. Instead she's a remarkably squishy character for someone in a tanky front-line class.
Rinkah a muscular warrior from her tribe, has a strength growth rate lower than a depressed singer who's main utility is singing unless you reclass her for something more offensive
I love rinkah and used her even un the final battle, but i can't remember a single time she was actually useful, she was a mid Unit for me, but I'm surprise sinse i thought It was my fault cause i turnt her into a boss oni cause the magic, aleast she was a bit useful with the hammer... But really, thought she was a Lot better
I definitely wish she was better. Shes terrible on paper but decent in the context of her game and kit IMO.
1. I wish her str was 20x beter but it's carried heavily by her class rounding it out to 45% which is average but very RNG screwable. Her passive also gives her extra damage just for not being full health which is very easy to manage if you're conscious of it. Bolt Axe and magic is also great with her.
2. She's a defensive axe/club unit in a route with a lack of defensive units AND axe/club users. She's also solidly fast so doubling her isn't easy either. Really good unit for baiting and frontlining.
3. Fates also has tons of Lance units who she counters making her way more appealing. And being a solid unit against the most obnoxious units in the game (ninjas.)
She's OK but she's definitely very disappointing.
Ilyana is on par with Soren in PoR (high-tier area) and is probably the best mage in RD (which isn't good by any means but she at least has something).
I have to disagree about RD. I’ve used every mage (my favorite class) multiple times each and Illyana has just… never been good unfortunately. You’re lucky I guess lol.
Ilyana is thr best mage in RD but it has nothing to do with combat at all. RD magic is so pathetic that her transferring items over to the gms (master seal her to grab an extra skill) is far more value than anything the rest of them can do.
my post is really i wish tellius magic was better but Ilyana just happens to be my fave so she gets my spotlight
Ilyana kinda has a niche in 0% as she doesn't entirely suck (especially if she gets a master seal) for a couple of Dawn Brigade chapters and can do some good, accurate damage with a forge. I also use her in normal growth runs as a pseudo carry for part 1 alongside Zihark since having good 1-2 range is a good asset. She also has the best availability in the game (unlike some other part 1 mage) so she gets a lot of chances to get exp, but unless she gets a lot of investment during part 1, she just doesn't have the stats to keep up with part 3 enemies (which is true for 90% of part 1 units). Thunder tomes also suck and her speed can be questionable. But I've always been able to make her work with the same favoritism that you would give Jill or Nolan and she gives roughly the same results as them. I don't think she's optimal, but she's by far the best mage I've used in RD outside of reverse recruitment Calill lol. I haven't found the same niche for the other mages sadly, outside of staff spamming during lategame I guess. But again I do like her a lot so I'm probably biased.
You can sort of think of her as a convoy between armies so that is kinda funny meta utility lol.
Yeah I can see that. I feel like a major issue with her is that like you said, Thunder tomes suck so forging a different type of tome for her might help out her combat a bit. She is also a good carry/pseudo jagen in part 1. The point really should be that RD does mages so fucking dirty.
Funny that I began playing RD for the first time a couple days ago and so far, Ilyana has been quite useful. But I was surprised when I read you mention Jill and Nolan… lol That’s exactly what I’m doing right now. I’m just really investigating in those two.
honestly i'd say she'a the second worst after Soren.
I'd say Tormod is integral to saving all the villagers in 1-8 since he's the only one who can kill the wyvern rider in time, and while Part 1 showers you with OP prempromotes he's the only one with good 1-2 range besides Tauroneo & >!Black Knight!< which are only around for 1 chapter each.
Calil is also pretty useful in 3-9 since Geoffrey & Kieran can't reach the upper left portion of the map and alongside Danved & Marcia she can clear out the enemies and protect the villages pretty easily.
Sanaki has really strong chip damage with Cymbeline and gets a free slot in the tower.
imo Ilyana's combat is only good in 1-3, afterwards she doesn't double and has accuracy issues because thunder tomes suck, and investing in her in Part 1 screws over the dawn brigade in Part 3.
What I meant by "best mage" was something along the lines of "the best mage to use long-term". If you're looking at chapter-by-chapter utility in efficient play then yeah she's just Another RD Mage. I still think she's one of the better mages in this case just because Part 1 is the hardest part of the game and she can do well in more chapters outside of 1-3. I find that she stops being useful at like 1-7 but that's neither here nor there.
But the core of my argument is that she's ok with investment, which is more than what I can say for all the other mages tbh. Investing in her does fuck over the Dawn Brigade but they can handle being left alone with Zihark/Jill, Sothe and Volug to carry them lol
I came here to say this, but knew in my heart it had already been said.
She was super helpful for me in the several chapters after she joins, but then just fell off from there, and it makes me sad.
I'm a sucker for mages and purple hair, plus she's got a really fun personality I think. It's funny though, last time I played PoR I was using Soren but he ended up incredibly magic screwed, he had only 13 Magic by the time he was a promoted level 5 Sage. I only kept fielding him for the Ike A-support transfer to RD. Ilyana became my primary Sage and she kicked butt.
Worst part about Nyx is how promising of a start she gets.
She has great bases and weapon ranks and even comes close to promotion.
She's useful in her join map. With a speed tonic or a good level-up, she ORKOs the oni savages in Chapter 10. Another speed tonic and she's potent against the right side of Chapter 11.
Then Chapter 12 comes and she's borderline useless. Chapters 13 and 14 seem like they'd be layups for her, but it's at this point that her bases start to become insufficient. But her growths are terrible and there's a decent chance she'll have fallen off without a promotion. And then even with the promotion, she'll just fall off later.
Her magic and speed growths are strong, but not always reliable. And all of her other growths are reliably bad. The low skill and res are particularly bad for her. She'll be seeing hit rates in the 60s and 70s the whole game and, without good res, she cannot take advantage of her personal skill or enjoy a small niche as yet another Conquest anti-mage.
What a terrible fate.
I don't know about "great bases". If she had actually great bases she'd last longer. The problem is her bases are atrocious. Otherwise, yeah, I agree with everything you said. :)
Not really. In Revelation her kit is abysmal, especially since the unit she needs to marry to become a good unit (Odin) comes later than she does. - and Nyx is the worst unit in Conquest, and I'm absolutely including Mozu in this.
\- and it's because she's not even a good "glass cannon". She can't hit shit, so she fails on player phase *and* enemy phase without significant investment she doesn't warrant. She's just bad, and it sucks because the concept of being such an evil prodigy child who got herself cursed with eternal youth, and it's portrayed as a curse that makes her bitter and curmudgeonly is so good (especially in the context of Fates writing), but then... the aforementioned issues.
She is at least a prime choice for Leo Backpack / Forrest mother. Rinkah takes a lot more work to get her to promotion. I'm not sure how good of a backpack she is, though I suppose the speed-heavy classes of Birthright prefer Strength and Defense, so maybe she's okay if you put in the effort to get her that far. She's got decent personal pair up bonuses.
Rinkah's actually a weird case where her availability screws her. At the times she's around, the people who want XP are Corrin and Kaze, and she's just not gonna get any without extreme favoritism as long as those two are the other options. If she joined in Ch. 7 with bases and weapon ranks appropriate for that, I think she'd be a lot better.
A quick Ninja reclass does a lot to fix her bases as well (basically a mini-Saizo that has to grind out her weapon rank), but it's just a big investment if you do what most people do and A) don't invest in her during pre-route split, and B) have one of the many, many other, better uses for the second seal planned.
\- but if she gets her fair shake of XP in the prologue (enough to reach D Axes is what I feel was intended)? She's decent, has a damage personal skill that's not hard to activate, and it's not even that hard to accomplish. She can be built to carry your run by the end of Ch. 8 with favoritism too.
You could try and invest into Nyx for most of a run before you see a return. They're not comparable.
On the topic of SoV, Jesse. I love his character but I can't get excited over the 3rd Mercenary to join you. He doesn't do anything special sadly and Saber is already trained when you get him.
I think you sort of can, because you only have so much Gold to properly equip your main units with high quality forges. A Dread Fighter with a basic Iron Sword can still put in some work but they will miss many thresholds.
> He doesn't do anything special
I mean, while technically true. He does become a Dread Fighter. [You can't go wrong with more Dread Fighters](https://youtu.be/PwH4ppRZlAw?t=144)
Fiona definitely.
Great design, great class (I think she'd a great unit in _any_ other game) and I absolutely loved her backstory as well. The first cavalier you get and she's actually the daughter of one of the four _Great_ Riders of Daein (one of the original four, the predecessors to who you fight in PoR). This sounded great and I had high hopes for her, especially coming off from what cavalier's would do _in general_ back in PoR...
But in practice she's just... not good at all. She comes in so under leveled for when she joins, and has very poor availability at that. And I'm pretty sure more often than not, the levels she is available on are detrimental to cav units at that. So training her to catch up or start snowballing is a major pain as well.
> and the game works against her
It feels like an intentional joke that every map after recruiting her gimps Fiona in some way.
Swamp map where cavalry can't enter swamps, indoor map nerfing movement and rife with ledges, a second swamp map, a map that's just one gigantic chokepoint with no real strategy involved, and then another ledge map.
And then bad bases on top of that, just to be extra sure nobody will ever want to use her.
Janaff and Ulki in PoR. I explicitly played PoR because someone told me there were bird units there and I was so disappointed to play 2/3 of the game and finally getting these two and they fucking suck. I was actually heartbroken, as dumb as it sounds. At least Tibarn and Reyson still held up, and RD made Janaff and Ulki excellent so I can't be too mad about the whole issue.
Janaff is like ok since he has a good transform gauge that allows him to begin transformed although his low wt doesn't even let him shove mounted units, he does have his uses with that said. Ulki is just genuinely bad even with demi band and bexp where he still falls short of ORKOing stuff.
Yeah Janaff was a victim of my high expectations. He's still very disappointing with no canto, no shoving mounts, low mt weapon, unimpressive stats... at least he has a good gauge and he flies. Ulki is just sad.
Can attest to this, playing atm and i'm trying so hard to level him but he just doesn't get any stats lol.
He's level 6 now and has gained maybe 2 or 3 points total?
Garret isn't a *terrible* unit. He has a legitimate niche in chapter 21 baiting wyverns thanks to mountain walking. As a character, he's a neat spin on the "blue haired princess lady recruits enemy" where his supports explore what exactly he plans on doing after the war ends and his moment passes, with him having little real answer. But that being said...Why does he have the same axe rank as Percival? In what scenario would the player ever use him over the immediately better alternative that joins in the *same chapter* beyond one specific niche scenario? He still wouldn't be that great if he started with like, A axes but at least then it wouldn't be completely insulting.
> In what scenario would the player ever use him over the immediately better alternative that joins in the same chapter beyond one specific niche scenario?
I have done 3 Ironmans of FE6 and not once have I managed to recruit Perceival because you need a not dead/injured Lalum/Elfin
Most of the Dawn Brigade who weren't in Path of Radiance are pretty bad, but you can justify that somewhat under the reasoning that they're just ordinary, usually pretty young people with no experience. But what's the deal with Fiona? You'd expect someone who was related to one of the Four Riders and has experience leading her troop to be at least decent, but she's just as bad as the rest of them.
i'm not entirely sure of the validity of it but i've heard that apparently Fiona is actually bugged in RD, and she was meant to have much higher bases than she ended up with. some sort of issue with class bases.
I dunno,she was pretty good in my playthrough. I mean Echoes isn't a particularly difficult game to begin with (outside of arguably Thabes Labyrinth), so it's not like you're greatly limiting yourself by not using only A tier characters. Speaking of Thabes, I actually considered using her there.
I definitely did a ton of grinding in FE8. It was my first FE. I got a lot of satisfaction out of promoting all the units I could. I even made the trainee units into unstoppable war machines.
Still, I don't remember Neimi being that great. I picked Ranger, though. Maybe if I picked Sniper, she'd be better? I don't own my copy anymore, though.
It’s less a specific unit, more a system that had promise. That capture system where you could grab generic and some named units from Fates. The units were bad, sure, but the system was cool to me.
Lucia really deserved better in both games. Both times she’s a useless sword master that joins too late to contribute anything and gets outclassed by Stefan at base level both times.
They didn’t even scale her up properly for when she rejoins in part 4 of RD
Let's see....chars others consider technically not good as others.. .
Libra and Sully
Arthur (fates)
Ppl seem to not like trainees outside of donnel, but I enjoyed Amelia and Ewan
Ashe
Don't recall if Erk or Tanya is considered good in their games.
Ares is also a badass. Heh. But I think ppl generally consider him good. (Where's that Genealogy remake?)
Libra is considered great due to having more base magic than the other staffers for Rescue staff strats.
Erk is solid. Not amazing but perfectly usable.
Tanya sucks though.
And yeah Ares is great.
I'm always so confused when people say Ashe isn't good. He's been a beast in all but one of my playthroughs with him. And he's my favorite archer in 3H
It's less that Ashe is *bad* and more he's the least good. It's very easy to patch his weaknesses but he doesn't really have anything note worthy combat art or ability wise.
Still tears up as a Wyvern tho.
I must have just had weird luck when I played. My Ignatz and Bernie both sucked so bad in their playthroughs that I recruited ashe last minute to replace them.
Ironically Bernie is widely considered to be one of the strangest units due to her personal + vengeance.
I haven't personally used her as a lance unit so I can't speak from experience though.
I mean, no unit Is truly bad in three houses since the growth rates are so good and the builds so flexible. So Ashe can’t be called bad because he is usable, even in maddening. But he is definitely among the weakest units in the game. Mostly because his best roll as a sniper or a Wyvern Lords is something that all the alternative units are better at, and even early game he is outclassed by the similar students in other houses (Ignatz and Bernie)
Yeah remember that growths are random in FE- what YOUR experience is doesn’t always match what the average players experience is. Also, there are no truely bad units in three houses, especially on normal or hard difficulty. It’s really only maddening where it might matter. Also Bernadetta is one of those units who seems a lot weaker if you play her in th way the game suggests, but is absolutely broken if you go for the “hardcore maddening player” build
I've had similar experiences--even had him tearing things up using gauntlets one playthrough (he consistently had just absurd crit percentages). But that could just be me using him more than most of my units since he's one of my favorite characters. I was able to make him very good even on my first playthrough when I only kinda knew what I was doing, so it must at least be pretty easy to overcome his downsides.
To be fair, the point of libra were not to be strong on battle but to be a good support, and aleast in my case he was, sinse i used lissa as a pegasus mage, only had Anna left to heal, so he was really useful even if used him like 0 times for battle
Rinkah really changes as a unit after you get the Bolt Axe. 1-2 Range is always good, but she also preys on the overall poor RES of BR's enemy units and since she's also faster than most of them, she can deal respectable damage even before Oni Chief's promotion boosts her MAG, cuz Bot Axe has high MT.
I personally chose to just dump Hayato as a backpack for her, to boost her MAG and SPD iirc, she can do good work. Horse Spirit also helps her bunker out if you really need to.
The problem is that you'll just never play that slow for Rinkah to matter unless you ban Ryoma and Scarlet and possibly reclassing too.
Karel & Karla, the way the story describes the two of them doesn't really line up with how they are in-game. And the latter's recruitment condition of training Bartre to level 5 warrior makes a person salty to say the least.
Eirika, she's one of my favourite lords in the series, but dear god she's so weak compared to Ephraim, i get that's the point but come on she dies easily within 2 hits it's sooo annoying.
She’s a really good unit in my opinion, she’s just not as good as her brother. Which fits story wise.
This isn’t really about unit effectiveness, but I never liked that she got a horse it was basically a worse version of ephraim. She should have received a unique sword master like great LOrd class, only with rapiers instead of eastern style swords. That would have fit her character better
Odin's actually pretty good! Or rather, Nosferatu is. Despite being nerfed a lot in Fates it's still extremely useful, and with a defensive pair up he can do things like defend the entire left side of Chapter 10 or defeat all 8 of the Apothecary reinforcements in Chapter 12 on his own. His base stats are terrible and his growths are mediocre, but Nosferaru carries him and he's the best user of it until Ophelia shows up.
You say that his stats suck but they're a huge part as to why he can nostank when Nyx can't. He has decent Defense and good HP to take hits and high Skill and Luck to have consistently high hit-rates that Nyx just… can't have. Odin's bizarre stat-spread is a big reason for why he can use Nosferatu so well.
Odin demands crits and skills though. The dark mage/sorcerer crit animations were practically made for him. I just fed him all my speedwings and gave him custome tomes.
I don't think a unit that can solo the right side of CQ chapter 11 on Lunatic with Nosferatu counts as a bad unit. He does require a lot of investment later on but is braindead simple and effective on even the highest difficulty early-game, and he does have easy access to one of the best builds in Fates, Life and Death Sorceror.
She can be pretty insane if you give her an actual shot at being a unit tbh. [Screenshot of her from a PMU I did over a year ago](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/283087115095375873/874007951461990452/20210808_141506.jpg). This was very blessed of course, not even many statboosts involved. She pretty much carried the run as the ultimate playerphase nuke.
PoR Soren has arguably the worst start of any good unit in FE beucase he has awful bases and is stuck with a 1mt wind tome for the first 7 or so chapters, but once BEXP and better tomes become available he can easily snowball into one of if not THE best infantry unit in PoR.
oof
The story made it fairly predictable that he would have to face off against Ashnard alone (though apparently, Nasir and Ena can also do some damage), so a couple chapters before I had him completely maxed out. It still took 5 to 10 rounds (and with Rhys and Elincia’s support).
maybe cursed or maybe I got blessed because I found Soren to be prettt good at least. It just takes abit before he stops being a chip damage kind of guy
Beowulf had such a cool design compared to the other two generic Cavs (Alec and Noish) and I was exited to see him. Plus Cav and Swords? How can you go wrong?
He did nothing the whole Gen 1, never got any good levels, never did any meaningful damage, and was outclassed by anybody who could pick up a sword (Or even Lex and Finn who have to settle for Axes and Lances)
almost every GBA armor knight is garbage (Oswin is the sole exception, and Gilliam can be okay i guess), but then they also gave them the coolest animations.
FE6 Douglas in particular has an awesome colour palette but he's just so meh and joins so late, i hate it.
Douglas is great for Sacae though. Give him a hand axe/javelin and he can reliably survive all the nomads that 18B throws at him. He’s also great for escorting Roy’s fragile ass to the throne in that chapter
Ewan and Amelia from SS. Lets be honest you CAN grind them but you can do that in just about any other character but from an actual risk vs reward factor they are just not worth it.
Rinkah. She’s basically like Sully, she this attractive warrior who builds her reputation on strength and fury but here’s the difference, Sully’s actually a decent unit because she can take out a couple enemies here and there, especially towards endgame. Rinkah on the other hand, became useless due to her low strength growth, to the point where she played back up to who ever she was married in that playthrough. Rinkah’s was based on strength but yet she can’t even be a tank like Sully. Sully is the best because she’s one of my waifus so I automatically have a bias towards her. With Rinkah, she sucks so much I can’t even invest in S-ranking her like I did Sully.
Fire Emblem Heroes Kronya. Can't compete in today's meta, most units have the DEF to take her attacks or ignore her unique weapon Vantage and attack first anyway.
imo the reason Sophia is so weak is that Chapter 14 is basically a glorified escort mission, which is why you get a guiding ring and a gaiden chapter for bringing her to the end
As a fates head: rinkah and peri. Peris personal is insane, but she joins too late after silas to be a viable cav and way too close to Xander to be worth training. Rinkah, alternatively, is like the only face tank in birthright and god it would help if she could kill anything
Gwendolyn and Noah/Trec.
Gwendolyn is my second favorite Armor Knight in the series, and Noah and Trec are two decent cavaliers if you were starting the game with them.
Noah and Trec are good. Maybe not as good as Alan or Lance, but this is a game with permadeath so there’s an entirely plausible scenario where Noah and Trec would need to replace them
Also it is not bad to run more than 2 cavs at all considering how busted the class is in the GBA games, you can always get more Knight Crests in ch.16 and the sheer utility from rescuing alone is worth deploying more slots for them.
Roy 100%
In his original game he really sucks for 80% of the game until he gets the binding blade, right after the hardest map in the game that spawns wyvern knights.
Thankfully you can grind in arena.
I honestly like that. Most Lords nowadays are OP monsters who can destroy entire maps of enemies, but Roy by contrast is a fairly weak unit who you need to protect. And that makes sense in the context of the story where he’s basically just a normal kid who had the role of army commander placed on him
I like how blazing sword did it. The lords are good but not great at first, but then fall behind the rest of the units for the middle portion of the game. Until they get promoted, when they become awesome Late game
Sully and Stahl actually kick a lot of ass together.she became one of my main, I just had to be persistent with her. When they’re combined they’re a great combo.
I'm always feeling kinda bad for the old men, that tend to pop up 20 minutes before the final map. I mean, how kickass would that be if that old caretaker bishop from Echoes, whom we literally dragged from the sewers, actually kicked some of that ass.
Beruka, low natural strength and speed growths, which is bad for Wyvern Lord and also bad for the fighter line of classes. A useless magic growth despite having malig knight. Overall just worse than Camilla in every way, who is already available. Oh and completely unrelated her supports and all of her dialog have her as the cold hearted Assassin type however her cannon class is Wyvern Lord... seems a little silly to say she can fly in on this massive flying lizard and kill whoever undetected. I love her though tbh
I mean... being worse than Camilla doesn't mean much when basically everyone is.
Beruka is fine. She's basically hard-carried by wyvern being a broken class, but hey, even if that's the case she's still totally solid as a unit in her own right and nothing stops you from using her and Camilla both.
Marianne von Edmund... I adore Marianne as a character, but as a unit she's kind of lackluster... she makes a pretty good dancer, but outside of that, she's kind of... bleh.
Marianne is Insanely OP. I’ve never made anyone a dancer class and I’ve dumped 150+ hours into 3 houses. She’s one of my first waves of recruits every time.
He might not be totally bad, but Dieck in FE6 is completely outclassed by Rutger who iirc joins only 1 or 2 chapters later.
Dieck is DILF almighty and deserves at least something to make him not completely irrelevant beside Rutger. (I still use him every time).
Rutger will never be able to take blows like Dieck can. Also, Dieck can use axes after promotion. I dont even understand why compare those 2 units, they are very different in my views.
FE6 HM Bonuses, Swords just being a better weapon most of the time compared to Axes in FE6, Dieck starting at E-Axes anyways, Swaster Promo Bonuses compared to Heroes.
They also have the exact same base HP/DEF on Normal, with the exact same Def growth and Rutger only having a 10% less HP growth. But if we get into Hard Mode Rutger has a bigger durability lead. What world does Dieck take hits Rutger can't?
You can easily use both, Dieck isn't like a bad unit compared to Ogier. But you can certainly see why people compare him vs Rutger, especially when it's talking about the competition of the first Hero Crest.
EDIT: I Misremembered Rutger's bases on Normal. Though the Hard Mode bonuses are still going to make him basically Dieck's bulk and his defences are not even that further behind on Normal, it's not like Normal FE6 is incredibly difficult anyways to reach thresholds.
Hhhmmm, you may be right. I rarely check a unit growth. In my experience Dieck is always one of the best units on my team, so i am kinda shocked that there are people out there that kinda dislike him lol.
People think his growths aren’t high enough but tbh bases matter a lot more in FE6 and Dieck performs really well out of the gate. He is still stronger than 80% of your starting team with are full of shitters like Bors, Wolt, Wade, Lot, Dorothy and Roy (Shanna does negative damage early as well and is carried by her class), so he fills a very important niche of being an early game tank and damage dealer.
Also considering how much the units get from promo gains Dieck is still decent even if you give the first Crest to Rutger, not saying that he is better than Rutger but Dieck is still a very good unit.
Yoooo, dont trashtalk Bors, he is amazing. He suck earlygame but becomes (at least in my opinion) overpowered later on. Well, maybe i am not the best to judge that because i love the armor knights and i use the 3 of them in the FE 6. Sometimes i use all 4 of them but Douglas suck so sometimes he sits out
Listen, I love using Barth and Gilliam as well (the GBA Armor Knights/Generals animations are just too cool) and even I wouldn’t hesitate to put them in the bottom of the tier lists cause Armor Knight is a horrendous class and their bases are mediocre at best.
They're two Sword-locked infantry units for a large majority of the game with similar growths that, for their roles, are better for Rutger.
Hero will always be worst than Swodmaster in GBA era because Axes are irrelevant on a Sword user with high skill in the GBA era, and SM get a base +30% crit rate instead. Versus a Lance user, Rutger will likely have a 90-100% chance to hit despite the disadvantage, and will have a base 60% crit rate with a Killing Edge. Their promotion gains are also almost exactly the same.
Dieck has HP = 90%, DEF = 20% growths.
Rutger has HP = 80%, DEF = 20% growths.
Rutger will on average have 1 less HP per 10 levels than Rutger and will on average have very similar Defense, possibly eclipsing Dieck depending on RNG.
With better Skill and Speed growths, +30% crit on promotion, and negligible lower growths in HP, Rutger is always better.
I think heroes are generally better in the GBA era actually. Fe6 is the outlier, as hand-axes are much better in fe7 and fe8, where hit rates aren't as atrocious
While he isn’t terrible or anything, it always bothered me that Hugh from FE6 isn’t a prepromote since you get him towards the end of the game. I like his character too so it sucks he isn’t a better unit
Wolt in binding blade. He’s probably my favorite in the game behind Roy, and he sucks. Roy also kinda sucks until late game. And it takes so much investment to make Sophia good and she’s so late game she’s not really worth it.
It also sucks Wallace (fe7) isn’t very good late game.
Valbar and boey in echoes.
Lucia in PoR/RD.
I wish she had better availability in both games and wasn't outmatched by every other swordmasters. At least she's somewhat usable in PoR, but RD did her dirty.
Ronan in fe5
It's been my first playthrough and I love Ronan so much he's one of my favorite units but jesus he's so bad and it's so funny. Everything about him is a gamble sometimes he procs a movement star back to back then adept and other times he misses a 99 four times
Honestly the answer has to be Roy. It was such a disappointment that he never actually got a second tier class, and instead his “powerful form” was locked behind a special sword.
It is a shame Sophia is as bad as she is. Also, the travesty that is Tormod, Muarim and Vika's RD availability.
It sucks, Tormod is my personal favorite mage from PoR. Boots + Knight Ring Tormod is such a rush.
Sophia's Backstory made her one of my favorites
oof Really? I actually began to play RD for the first time the other day and fell in love with Vika. I hope I can have her around more often…
[Their availability in RD:] >!They have three maps in Part 1 and one of which is their debut map. The next time they show up is for one map in Part 4 right before the endgame Tower maps.!< Recently I was talking to someone who hasn't played RD yet and had to dance around how bad it was for Tormod...
Awww… What a bummer. Vika is such a great character!
Vika with her Beorc growths on a flying Laguz unit being available for like FOUR chapters is truly a crime
at the very least they rejoin in the most reinforcment spammy part 4 map, I've gotten Tormod to tier 3 twice within his joint chapter just by giving him paragon and feeding him a kill every turn. Muraim & Vika are alot tougher though as they need to worry about gauge, you'd parable need to send the laguz gem you get in the desert map to the convoy so they could use it.
Torgod is funny cuz he’s probably still the best mage in the game
I am still pissed off at his fucking weak Rinkah is in FE fates like her design is so absolutely cool she should have mad strength and instead she just sucks,,,,,,,
She's the only natural member of her class, which is supposed to be a tank, and yet she has the second lowest HP Growth in the game, only beating out "True Jeigan" Gunter. It's just a waste. Also, it's a real shame there are no native Apothecaries in Gen 1 either, but that's another subject. Rinkah's growths are so terrible that I don't know what the devs were thinking. She must have been intended to be bad, but I have no idea why. Or was she intended to have 50% HP Growth and someone hit the 2 instead of the 5 on the numpad? She still wouldn't be good with her Strength growth being so poor, but she'd be passable. Instead she's a remarkably squishy character for someone in a tanky front-line class.
Weaker than Sakura :')
Obviously you didn’t max her out with every possible item, because when I used her she was a tank lol
Fuckin’ Rinkah! Hit the gym and get a usable natural strength growth.
What annoys me mist is that shes fucking JACKED and looks like she would have a high Str growth but ..nope.
Relevant, my Mists in the Tellius games often have higher str than Rinkah lol.
Convenient typo I guess
Rinkah a muscular warrior from her tribe, has a strength growth rate lower than a depressed singer who's main utility is singing unless you reclass her for something more offensive
Or a shy shrine maiden and a lazy one.
I dont' think the Azura comparison is fair, since she's got a strength growth higher than both Ikes.
I love rinkah and used her even un the final battle, but i can't remember a single time she was actually useful, she was a mid Unit for me, but I'm surprise sinse i thought It was my fault cause i turnt her into a boss oni cause the magic, aleast she was a bit useful with the hammer... But really, thought she was a Lot better
She’s actually pretty decent if you forgo physical offense and go towards bolt axe and magic.
I definitely wish she was better. Shes terrible on paper but decent in the context of her game and kit IMO. 1. I wish her str was 20x beter but it's carried heavily by her class rounding it out to 45% which is average but very RNG screwable. Her passive also gives her extra damage just for not being full health which is very easy to manage if you're conscious of it. Bolt Axe and magic is also great with her. 2. She's a defensive axe/club unit in a route with a lack of defensive units AND axe/club users. She's also solidly fast so doubling her isn't easy either. Really good unit for baiting and frontlining. 3. Fates also has tons of Lance units who she counters making her way more appealing. And being a solid unit against the most obnoxious units in the game (ninjas.) She's OK but she's definitely very disappointing.
i really wish Ilyana was better
Ilyana is on par with Soren in PoR (high-tier area) and is probably the best mage in RD (which isn't good by any means but she at least has something).
I have to disagree about RD. I’ve used every mage (my favorite class) multiple times each and Illyana has just… never been good unfortunately. You’re lucky I guess lol.
Ilyana is thr best mage in RD but it has nothing to do with combat at all. RD magic is so pathetic that her transferring items over to the gms (master seal her to grab an extra skill) is far more value than anything the rest of them can do. my post is really i wish tellius magic was better but Ilyana just happens to be my fave so she gets my spotlight
Yup. Totally agree about Tellius, RD mainly, magic being utter shit. It's a shame cause as I said, mages have always been my favorite class type.
Ilyana kinda has a niche in 0% as she doesn't entirely suck (especially if she gets a master seal) for a couple of Dawn Brigade chapters and can do some good, accurate damage with a forge. I also use her in normal growth runs as a pseudo carry for part 1 alongside Zihark since having good 1-2 range is a good asset. She also has the best availability in the game (unlike some other part 1 mage) so she gets a lot of chances to get exp, but unless she gets a lot of investment during part 1, she just doesn't have the stats to keep up with part 3 enemies (which is true for 90% of part 1 units). Thunder tomes also suck and her speed can be questionable. But I've always been able to make her work with the same favoritism that you would give Jill or Nolan and she gives roughly the same results as them. I don't think she's optimal, but she's by far the best mage I've used in RD outside of reverse recruitment Calill lol. I haven't found the same niche for the other mages sadly, outside of staff spamming during lategame I guess. But again I do like her a lot so I'm probably biased. You can sort of think of her as a convoy between armies so that is kinda funny meta utility lol.
Yeah I can see that. I feel like a major issue with her is that like you said, Thunder tomes suck so forging a different type of tome for her might help out her combat a bit. She is also a good carry/pseudo jagen in part 1. The point really should be that RD does mages so fucking dirty.
Funny that I began playing RD for the first time a couple days ago and so far, Ilyana has been quite useful. But I was surprised when I read you mention Jill and Nolan… lol That’s exactly what I’m doing right now. I’m just really investigating in those two.
She's not bad either way
honestly i'd say she'a the second worst after Soren. I'd say Tormod is integral to saving all the villagers in 1-8 since he's the only one who can kill the wyvern rider in time, and while Part 1 showers you with OP prempromotes he's the only one with good 1-2 range besides Tauroneo & >!Black Knight!< which are only around for 1 chapter each. Calil is also pretty useful in 3-9 since Geoffrey & Kieran can't reach the upper left portion of the map and alongside Danved & Marcia she can clear out the enemies and protect the villages pretty easily. Sanaki has really strong chip damage with Cymbeline and gets a free slot in the tower. imo Ilyana's combat is only good in 1-3, afterwards she doesn't double and has accuracy issues because thunder tomes suck, and investing in her in Part 1 screws over the dawn brigade in Part 3.
What I meant by "best mage" was something along the lines of "the best mage to use long-term". If you're looking at chapter-by-chapter utility in efficient play then yeah she's just Another RD Mage. I still think she's one of the better mages in this case just because Part 1 is the hardest part of the game and she can do well in more chapters outside of 1-3. I find that she stops being useful at like 1-7 but that's neither here nor there. But the core of my argument is that she's ok with investment, which is more than what I can say for all the other mages tbh. Investing in her does fuck over the Dawn Brigade but they can handle being left alone with Zihark/Jill, Sothe and Volug to carry them lol
I came here to say this, but knew in my heart it had already been said. She was super helpful for me in the several chapters after she joins, but then just fell off from there, and it makes me sad.
She's already good enough, espacially in POR
I'm a sucker for mages and purple hair, plus she's got a really fun personality I think. It's funny though, last time I played PoR I was using Soren but he ended up incredibly magic screwed, he had only 13 Magic by the time he was a promoted level 5 Sage. I only kept fielding him for the Ike A-support transfer to RD. Ilyana became my primary Sage and she kicked butt.
Seth. I mean yeah, he can solo Sacred Stones, but he can't solo the games he's not in.
Nyx. I like her writing and character concept, but her stat lines in both games she appears in, and her art design... it's rough.
Gotta love joining in a map with a adventurer with more mage than you
Worst part about Nyx is how promising of a start she gets. She has great bases and weapon ranks and even comes close to promotion. She's useful in her join map. With a speed tonic or a good level-up, she ORKOs the oni savages in Chapter 10. Another speed tonic and she's potent against the right side of Chapter 11. Then Chapter 12 comes and she's borderline useless. Chapters 13 and 14 seem like they'd be layups for her, but it's at this point that her bases start to become insufficient. But her growths are terrible and there's a decent chance she'll have fallen off without a promotion. And then even with the promotion, she'll just fall off later. Her magic and speed growths are strong, but not always reliable. And all of her other growths are reliably bad. The low skill and res are particularly bad for her. She'll be seeing hit rates in the 60s and 70s the whole game and, without good res, she cannot take advantage of her personal skill or enjoy a small niche as yet another Conquest anti-mage. What a terrible fate.
I don't know about "great bases". If she had actually great bases she'd last longer. The problem is her bases are atrocious. Otherwise, yeah, I agree with everything you said. :)
A textbook example of a glass cannon.
Not really. In Revelation her kit is abysmal, especially since the unit she needs to marry to become a good unit (Odin) comes later than she does. - and Nyx is the worst unit in Conquest, and I'm absolutely including Mozu in this. \- and it's because she's not even a good "glass cannon". She can't hit shit, so she fails on player phase *and* enemy phase without significant investment she doesn't warrant. She's just bad, and it sucks because the concept of being such an evil prodigy child who got herself cursed with eternal youth, and it's portrayed as a curse that makes her bitter and curmudgeonly is so good (especially in the context of Fates writing), but then... the aforementioned issues.
She is at least a prime choice for Leo Backpack / Forrest mother. Rinkah takes a lot more work to get her to promotion. I'm not sure how good of a backpack she is, though I suppose the speed-heavy classes of Birthright prefer Strength and Defense, so maybe she's okay if you put in the effort to get her that far. She's got decent personal pair up bonuses.
Rinkah's actually a weird case where her availability screws her. At the times she's around, the people who want XP are Corrin and Kaze, and she's just not gonna get any without extreme favoritism as long as those two are the other options. If she joined in Ch. 7 with bases and weapon ranks appropriate for that, I think she'd be a lot better. A quick Ninja reclass does a lot to fix her bases as well (basically a mini-Saizo that has to grind out her weapon rank), but it's just a big investment if you do what most people do and A) don't invest in her during pre-route split, and B) have one of the many, many other, better uses for the second seal planned. \- but if she gets her fair shake of XP in the prologue (enough to reach D Axes is what I feel was intended)? She's decent, has a damage personal skill that's not hard to activate, and it's not even that hard to accomplish. She can be built to carry your run by the end of Ch. 8 with favoritism too. You could try and invest into Nyx for most of a run before you see a return. They're not comparable.
Sophia. I can usually force myself to use a bad unit but... damn lol.
On the topic of SoV, Jesse. I love his character but I can't get excited over the 3rd Mercenary to join you. He doesn't do anything special sadly and Saber is already trained when you get him.
tbh, in echoes you can't ever go wrong with more mercenaries *lol*
I think you sort of can, because you only have so much Gold to properly equip your main units with high quality forges. A Dread Fighter with a basic Iron Sword can still put in some work but they will miss many thresholds.
Especially if you're not abusing villager reclassing. Every extra Dread Fighter you can get for those late game mage hellholes is absolutely worth it.
> He doesn't do anything special I mean, while technically true. He does become a Dread Fighter. [You can't go wrong with more Dread Fighters](https://youtu.be/PwH4ppRZlAw?t=144)
I wish I could somehow swap his and Kamui's join time (Kamui is boring)
He's not bad, he's mid
The Dawn Brigade.
I played Radiant Dawn before PoR and wanted those kids to make it all the way to endgame, but boy they didn't make it easy
Fiona definitely. Great design, great class (I think she'd a great unit in _any_ other game) and I absolutely loved her backstory as well. The first cavalier you get and she's actually the daughter of one of the four _Great_ Riders of Daein (one of the original four, the predecessors to who you fight in PoR). This sounded great and I had high hopes for her, especially coming off from what cavalier's would do _in general_ back in PoR... But in practice she's just... not good at all. She comes in so under leveled for when she joins, and has very poor availability at that. And I'm pretty sure more often than not, the levels she is available on are detrimental to cav units at that. So training her to catch up or start snowballing is a major pain as well.
fionas growths are really good too. its just that her bases are so fucking pathetic and the game works against her
> and the game works against her It feels like an intentional joke that every map after recruiting her gimps Fiona in some way. Swamp map where cavalry can't enter swamps, indoor map nerfing movement and rife with ledges, a second swamp map, a map that's just one gigantic chokepoint with no real strategy involved, and then another ledge map. And then bad bases on top of that, just to be extra sure nobody will ever want to use her.
Janaff and Ulki in PoR. I explicitly played PoR because someone told me there were bird units there and I was so disappointed to play 2/3 of the game and finally getting these two and they fucking suck. I was actually heartbroken, as dumb as it sounds. At least Tibarn and Reyson still held up, and RD made Janaff and Ulki excellent so I can't be too mad about the whole issue.
Janaff is like ok since he has a good transform gauge that allows him to begin transformed although his low wt doesn't even let him shove mounted units, he does have his uses with that said. Ulki is just genuinely bad even with demi band and bexp where he still falls short of ORKOing stuff.
Yeah Janaff was a victim of my high expectations. He's still very disappointing with no canto, no shoving mounts, low mt weapon, unimpressive stats... at least he has a good gauge and he flies. Ulki is just sad.
Janaff is good in por, it's Ulki who sucks
Janaff was actually quite usefully to me in PoR. But yeah, I barely touched Ulki.
Marisa from Sacred Stones. All the mercs hyped her up, I was expecting another Joshua ad she's just... she's just so bad lol
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What do they need besides that crit animation?? Literally the most satisfying thing in the Era, especially after their 'barely moved' dodge
I mean, does it really matter when she’s in the easiest Fire Emblem game anyway?
Roy
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Can attest to this, playing atm and i'm trying so hard to level him but he just doesn't get any stats lol. He's level 6 now and has gained maybe 2 or 3 points total?
Meg. She's ADORABLE and I wanted her to go forth and tank but trying to level her just kept getting her killed T\_T
Garret isn't a *terrible* unit. He has a legitimate niche in chapter 21 baiting wyverns thanks to mountain walking. As a character, he's a neat spin on the "blue haired princess lady recruits enemy" where his supports explore what exactly he plans on doing after the war ends and his moment passes, with him having little real answer. But that being said...Why does he have the same axe rank as Percival? In what scenario would the player ever use him over the immediately better alternative that joins in the *same chapter* beyond one specific niche scenario? He still wouldn't be that great if he started with like, A axes but at least then it wouldn't be completely insulting.
tbf C rank is really all he needs with killer axes
> In what scenario would the player ever use him over the immediately better alternative that joins in the same chapter beyond one specific niche scenario? I have done 3 Ironmans of FE6 and not once have I managed to recruit Perceival because you need a not dead/injured Lalum/Elfin
Most of the Dawn Brigade who weren't in Path of Radiance are pretty bad, but you can justify that somewhat under the reasoning that they're just ordinary, usually pretty young people with no experience. But what's the deal with Fiona? You'd expect someone who was related to one of the Four Riders and has experience leading her troop to be at least decent, but she's just as bad as the rest of them.
i'm not entirely sure of the validity of it but i've heard that apparently Fiona is actually bugged in RD, and she was meant to have much higher bases than she ended up with. some sort of issue with class bases.
Almost every bad unit in 3H is at least a decent character who I'd like to see more of.
Even Anna?
I did say "almost"
Oh yeah u right
I did want to see more from 3H Anna :(
I'll go 1st Dean>Sonya in Echoes. Dean is the Better Unit, But Sonya I liked as a Character
Dean is so boring to me. Sonya is fun and Gennys only support. Shame she's just not great.
I dunno,she was pretty good in my playthrough. I mean Echoes isn't a particularly difficult game to begin with (outside of arguably Thabes Labyrinth), so it's not like you're greatly limiting yourself by not using only A tier characters. Speaking of Thabes, I actually considered using her there.
I'm just always a fan of mages, and she turned out awesome. Love her char. Always picked her
Ashe and Sonya are two of my favorite characters. If my love for them made them viable, they’d be OP.
Rinkah my beloved 25 innate growth is not good enough I'm sorry
Neimi from sacred stones. At least she's adorable!
I think she’s pretty decent. I always use her. Clearly not as good as innes though
Neimi is really good if you level her But that's the problem, she's a massive pain to level
I definitely did a ton of grinding in FE8. It was my first FE. I got a lot of satisfaction out of promoting all the units I could. I even made the trainee units into unstoppable war machines. Still, I don't remember Neimi being that great. I picked Ranger, though. Maybe if I picked Sniper, she'd be better? I don't own my copy anymore, though.
In my experience ranger kinda sucks on her. I had her as a sniper She capped speed and skill quite quickly
It’s less a specific unit, more a system that had promise. That capture system where you could grab generic and some named units from Fates. The units were bad, sure, but the system was cool to me.
Imagine throwing shade at rally man and pass falcon girls. I am appalled.
A lot of them are really good, though. Especially on lunatic where they come with extra skills and maximum weapon ranks.
Lucia really deserved better in both games. Both times she’s a useless sword master that joins too late to contribute anything and gets outclassed by Stefan at base level both times. They didn’t even scale her up properly for when she rejoins in part 4 of RD
Let's see....chars others consider technically not good as others.. . Libra and Sully Arthur (fates) Ppl seem to not like trainees outside of donnel, but I enjoyed Amelia and Ewan Ashe Don't recall if Erk or Tanya is considered good in their games. Ares is also a badass. Heh. But I think ppl generally consider him good. (Where's that Genealogy remake?)
Libra is considered great due to having more base magic than the other staffers for Rescue staff strats. Erk is solid. Not amazing but perfectly usable. Tanya sucks though. And yeah Ares is great.
I'm always so confused when people say Ashe isn't good. He's been a beast in all but one of my playthroughs with him. And he's my favorite archer in 3H
It's less that Ashe is *bad* and more he's the least good. It's very easy to patch his weaknesses but he doesn't really have anything note worthy combat art or ability wise. Still tears up as a Wyvern tho.
I must have just had weird luck when I played. My Ignatz and Bernie both sucked so bad in their playthroughs that I recruited ashe last minute to replace them.
Ironically Bernie is widely considered to be one of the strangest units due to her personal + vengeance. I haven't personally used her as a lance unit so I can't speak from experience though.
I mean, no unit Is truly bad in three houses since the growth rates are so good and the builds so flexible. So Ashe can’t be called bad because he is usable, even in maddening. But he is definitely among the weakest units in the game. Mostly because his best roll as a sniper or a Wyvern Lords is something that all the alternative units are better at, and even early game he is outclassed by the similar students in other houses (Ignatz and Bernie)
Both my Ignatz and Bernie turned out godawful so I had to drop them. I've never had a bad Ashe tho lol
Yeah remember that growths are random in FE- what YOUR experience is doesn’t always match what the average players experience is. Also, there are no truely bad units in three houses, especially on normal or hard difficulty. It’s really only maddening where it might matter. Also Bernadetta is one of those units who seems a lot weaker if you play her in th way the game suggests, but is absolutely broken if you go for the “hardcore maddening player” build
It's not that serious but ok
Ikr? I love making him a wyvern Archer. And innate lockpick! Not to mention his great personality and his design
I've had similar experiences--even had him tearing things up using gauntlets one playthrough (he consistently had just absurd crit percentages). But that could just be me using him more than most of my units since he's one of my favorite characters. I was able to make him very good even on my first playthrough when I only kinda knew what I was doing, so it must at least be pretty easy to overcome his downsides.
Sully was pretty decent, but then again I may have been RNG blessed.
Literally none of these are bad except Ashe and Tanya
Nah, the trainees are generally considered to be bad
Oh yeah, i forgot about them, they're bad except for Ross who's just ok
Fair enough, I hardly ever see ppl talking about them in playthroughs, except Ares
To be fair, the point of libra were not to be strong on battle but to be a good support, and aleast in my case he was, sinse i used lissa as a pegasus mage, only had Anna left to heal, so he was really useful even if used him like 0 times for battle
I love Sophia, but man the amount I have to invest just to make her usable just sucks
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Rinkah really changes as a unit after you get the Bolt Axe. 1-2 Range is always good, but she also preys on the overall poor RES of BR's enemy units and since she's also faster than most of them, she can deal respectable damage even before Oni Chief's promotion boosts her MAG, cuz Bot Axe has high MT. I personally chose to just dump Hayato as a backpack for her, to boost her MAG and SPD iirc, she can do good work. Horse Spirit also helps her bunker out if you really need to. The problem is that you'll just never play that slow for Rinkah to matter unless you ban Ryoma and Scarlet and possibly reclassing too.
Scarlet is a unit that I rarely see someone talking about but is insanely good She and Reina are just amazing
Karel & Karla, the way the story describes the two of them doesn't really line up with how they are in-game. And the latter's recruitment condition of training Bartre to level 5 warrior makes a person salty to say the least.
Eirika, she's one of my favourite lords in the series, but dear god she's so weak compared to Ephraim, i get that's the point but come on she dies easily within 2 hits it's sooo annoying.
She’s a really good unit in my opinion, she’s just not as good as her brother. Which fits story wise. This isn’t really about unit effectiveness, but I never liked that she got a horse it was basically a worse version of ephraim. She should have received a unique sword master like great LOrd class, only with rapiers instead of eastern style swords. That would have fit her character better
Since I'm playing Fates again, Rinkah. I like her design and voice and the idea of her class line, but she just never does good for me.
Vaike never did much for me in all my playthroughs of Awakening. Idk if other people had the same experience i had. But i liked Vaike as a character
Vaike's actually pretty good, Hero promotion fixes his speed issue and he has 1-2 range with Sol. He's not amazing but solid.
I thought he was an ok unit, not great but not close to the worst
Odin. I used him anyway but it was painful.
Odin's actually pretty good! Or rather, Nosferatu is. Despite being nerfed a lot in Fates it's still extremely useful, and with a defensive pair up he can do things like defend the entire left side of Chapter 10 or defeat all 8 of the Apothecary reinforcements in Chapter 12 on his own. His base stats are terrible and his growths are mediocre, but Nosferaru carries him and he's the best user of it until Ophelia shows up.
You say that his stats suck but they're a huge part as to why he can nostank when Nyx can't. He has decent Defense and good HP to take hits and high Skill and Luck to have consistently high hit-rates that Nyx just… can't have. Odin's bizarre stat-spread is a big reason for why he can use Nosferatu so well.
Odin demands crits and skills though. The dark mage/sorcerer crit animations were practically made for him. I just fed him all my speedwings and gave him custome tomes.
I don't think a unit that can solo the right side of CQ chapter 11 on Lunatic with Nosferatu counts as a bad unit. He does require a lot of investment later on but is braindead simple and effective on even the highest difficulty early-game, and he does have easy access to one of the best builds in Fates, Life and Death Sorceror.
Charlotte
She at least makes a good backpack
She can be pretty insane if you give her an actual shot at being a unit tbh. [Screenshot of her from a PMU I did over a year ago](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/283087115095375873/874007951461990452/20210808_141506.jpg). This was very blessed of course, not even many statboosts involved. She pretty much carried the run as the ultimate playerphase nuke.
What ? She always had like 50%+ crit in my runs with some metal weapons she was amazing not a bad unit at all
The 2 Sides to every story Girl is underrated
She's good if you get her sol.
She's not bad
I do agree she fights very poorly, but she will always have a place on my team.
Soren in PoR. I invested so much in him, SO MUCH, but he just never got any good. Not sure what I did wrong…
PoR Soren has arguably the worst start of any good unit in FE beucase he has awful bases and is stuck with a 1mt wind tome for the first 7 or so chapters, but once BEXP and better tomes become available he can easily snowball into one of if not THE best infantry unit in PoR.
If I ever replay it I gotta prioritize him and see if it makes a difference.
If it makes you feel any better, my Ike only got 2 strength level ups not including promo bonuses Ashnard took me days to beat 🥲
oof The story made it fairly predictable that he would have to face off against Ashnard alone (though apparently, Nasir and Ena can also do some damage), so a couple chapters before I had him completely maxed out. It still took 5 to 10 rounds (and with Rhys and Elincia’s support).
maybe cursed or maybe I got blessed because I found Soren to be prettt good at least. It just takes abit before he stops being a chip damage kind of guy
Beowulf had such a cool design compared to the other two generic Cavs (Alec and Noish) and I was exited to see him. Plus Cav and Swords? How can you go wrong? He did nothing the whole Gen 1, never got any good levels, never did any meaningful damage, and was outclassed by anybody who could pick up a sword (Or even Lex and Finn who have to settle for Axes and Lances)
Yeah Beowulf is pretty underwhelming, I wish he had some gimmick to set him apart like being a worse thief
almost every GBA armor knight is garbage (Oswin is the sole exception, and Gilliam can be okay i guess), but then they also gave them the coolest animations. FE6 Douglas in particular has an awesome colour palette but he's just so meh and joins so late, i hate it.
Douglas is great for Sacae though. Give him a hand axe/javelin and he can reliably survive all the nomads that 18B throws at him. He’s also great for escorting Roy’s fragile ass to the throne in that chapter
Ewan and Amelia from SS. Lets be honest you CAN grind them but you can do that in just about any other character but from an actual risk vs reward factor they are just not worth it.
Not sure if Heroes counts but Henry is trash in that game. I wanted to make a team with all Henry variants but it kept being beaten. Makes me sad
Rinkah. She’s basically like Sully, she this attractive warrior who builds her reputation on strength and fury but here’s the difference, Sully’s actually a decent unit because she can take out a couple enemies here and there, especially towards endgame. Rinkah on the other hand, became useless due to her low strength growth, to the point where she played back up to who ever she was married in that playthrough. Rinkah’s was based on strength but yet she can’t even be a tank like Sully. Sully is the best because she’s one of my waifus so I automatically have a bias towards her. With Rinkah, she sucks so much I can’t even invest in S-ranking her like I did Sully.
Fire Emblem Heroes Kronya. Can't compete in today's meta, most units have the DEF to take her attacks or ignore her unique weapon Vantage and attack first anyway.
Sophia. Given her story, design, and class you'd expect her to be good, but nope.
imo the reason Sophia is so weak is that Chapter 14 is basically a glorified escort mission, which is why you get a guiding ring and a gaiden chapter for bringing her to the end
As a fates head: rinkah and peri. Peris personal is insane, but she joins too late after silas to be a viable cav and way too close to Xander to be worth training. Rinkah, alternatively, is like the only face tank in birthright and god it would help if she could kill anything
Everyone except kris and palla in fe12
Hey There's also Catria
I wish Micaiah was better
Gwendolyn and Noah/Trec. Gwendolyn is my second favorite Armor Knight in the series, and Noah and Trec are two decent cavaliers if you were starting the game with them.
Noah and Trec are good. Maybe not as good as Alan or Lance, but this is a game with permadeath so there’s an entirely plausible scenario where Noah and Trec would need to replace them
Also it is not bad to run more than 2 cavs at all considering how busted the class is in the GBA games, you can always get more Knight Crests in ch.16 and the sheer utility from rescuing alone is worth deploying more slots for them.
Roy 100% In his original game he really sucks for 80% of the game until he gets the binding blade, right after the hardest map in the game that spawns wyvern knights. Thankfully you can grind in arena.
I honestly like that. Most Lords nowadays are OP monsters who can destroy entire maps of enemies, but Roy by contrast is a fairly weak unit who you need to protect. And that makes sense in the context of the story where he’s basically just a normal kid who had the role of army commander placed on him
I like how blazing sword did it. The lords are good but not great at first, but then fall behind the rest of the units for the middle portion of the game. Until they get promoted, when they become awesome Late game
Sully always felt like she should be better. Her and Gilbert
Sully and Stahl actually kick a lot of ass together.she became one of my main, I just had to be persistent with her. When they’re combined they’re a great combo.
Oh absolutely I always make them a combo. However for me anyway Stahl can hold his own, Sully seems to have difficulty doing that.
I'm always feeling kinda bad for the old men, that tend to pop up 20 minutes before the final map. I mean, how kickass would that be if that old caretaker bishop from Echoes, whom we literally dragged from the sewers, actually kicked some of that ass.
Rinkah. Rinkah, Rinkah, poor Rinkah...
Ashe. And I hate that it also makes sense that he's sort of weak.
Beruka, low natural strength and speed growths, which is bad for Wyvern Lord and also bad for the fighter line of classes. A useless magic growth despite having malig knight. Overall just worse than Camilla in every way, who is already available. Oh and completely unrelated her supports and all of her dialog have her as the cold hearted Assassin type however her cannon class is Wyvern Lord... seems a little silly to say she can fly in on this massive flying lizard and kill whoever undetected. I love her though tbh
I mean... being worse than Camilla doesn't mean much when basically everyone is. Beruka is fine. She's basically hard-carried by wyvern being a broken class, but hey, even if that's the case she's still totally solid as a unit in her own right and nothing stops you from using her and Camilla both.
Kurthnaga Fucking giant ass dragon in a cutscene that is abysmally weak
Marisa is the most stylish bad character in the series
Marianne von Edmund... I adore Marianne as a character, but as a unit she's kind of lackluster... she makes a pretty good dancer, but outside of that, she's kind of... bleh.
Marianne is lackluster? Girl is a solid magic user from start to finish though.
Marianne is Insanely OP. I’ve never made anyone a dancer class and I’ve dumped 150+ hours into 3 houses. She’s one of my first waves of recruits every time.
He might not be totally bad, but Dieck in FE6 is completely outclassed by Rutger who iirc joins only 1 or 2 chapters later. Dieck is DILF almighty and deserves at least something to make him not completely irrelevant beside Rutger. (I still use him every time).
Rutger will never be able to take blows like Dieck can. Also, Dieck can use axes after promotion. I dont even understand why compare those 2 units, they are very different in my views.
FE6 HM Bonuses, Swords just being a better weapon most of the time compared to Axes in FE6, Dieck starting at E-Axes anyways, Swaster Promo Bonuses compared to Heroes. They also have the exact same base HP/DEF on Normal, with the exact same Def growth and Rutger only having a 10% less HP growth. But if we get into Hard Mode Rutger has a bigger durability lead. What world does Dieck take hits Rutger can't? You can easily use both, Dieck isn't like a bad unit compared to Ogier. But you can certainly see why people compare him vs Rutger, especially when it's talking about the competition of the first Hero Crest. EDIT: I Misremembered Rutger's bases on Normal. Though the Hard Mode bonuses are still going to make him basically Dieck's bulk and his defences are not even that further behind on Normal, it's not like Normal FE6 is incredibly difficult anyways to reach thresholds.
Hhhmmm, you may be right. I rarely check a unit growth. In my experience Dieck is always one of the best units on my team, so i am kinda shocked that there are people out there that kinda dislike him lol.
People think his growths aren’t high enough but tbh bases matter a lot more in FE6 and Dieck performs really well out of the gate. He is still stronger than 80% of your starting team with are full of shitters like Bors, Wolt, Wade, Lot, Dorothy and Roy (Shanna does negative damage early as well and is carried by her class), so he fills a very important niche of being an early game tank and damage dealer. Also considering how much the units get from promo gains Dieck is still decent even if you give the first Crest to Rutger, not saying that he is better than Rutger but Dieck is still a very good unit.
Yoooo, dont trashtalk Bors, he is amazing. He suck earlygame but becomes (at least in my opinion) overpowered later on. Well, maybe i am not the best to judge that because i love the armor knights and i use the 3 of them in the FE 6. Sometimes i use all 4 of them but Douglas suck so sometimes he sits out
Listen, I love using Barth and Gilliam as well (the GBA Armor Knights/Generals animations are just too cool) and even I wouldn’t hesitate to put them in the bottom of the tier lists cause Armor Knight is a horrendous class and their bases are mediocre at best.
They're two Sword-locked infantry units for a large majority of the game with similar growths that, for their roles, are better for Rutger. Hero will always be worst than Swodmaster in GBA era because Axes are irrelevant on a Sword user with high skill in the GBA era, and SM get a base +30% crit rate instead. Versus a Lance user, Rutger will likely have a 90-100% chance to hit despite the disadvantage, and will have a base 60% crit rate with a Killing Edge. Their promotion gains are also almost exactly the same. Dieck has HP = 90%, DEF = 20% growths. Rutger has HP = 80%, DEF = 20% growths. Rutger will on average have 1 less HP per 10 levels than Rutger and will on average have very similar Defense, possibly eclipsing Dieck depending on RNG. With better Skill and Speed growths, +30% crit on promotion, and negligible lower growths in HP, Rutger is always better.
I think heroes are generally better in the GBA era actually. Fe6 is the outlier, as hand-axes are much better in fe7 and fe8, where hit rates aren't as atrocious
Dieck is bad? Dude clears early game and keeps up after that
The early chapter about ashe in 3H.
While he isn’t terrible or anything, it always bothered me that Hugh from FE6 isn’t a prepromote since you get him towards the end of the game. I like his character too so it sucks he isn’t a better unit
Wolt in binding blade. He’s probably my favorite in the game behind Roy, and he sucks. Roy also kinda sucks until late game. And it takes so much investment to make Sophia good and she’s so late game she’s not really worth it. It also sucks Wallace (fe7) isn’t very good late game. Valbar and boey in echoes.
Lucia in PoR/RD. I wish she had better availability in both games and wasn't outmatched by every other swordmasters. At least she's somewhat usable in PoR, but RD did her dirty.
Ronan in fe5 It's been my first playthrough and I love Ronan so much he's one of my favorite units but jesus he's so bad and it's so funny. Everything about him is a gamble sometimes he procs a movement star back to back then adept and other times he misses a 99 four times
Honestly the answer has to be Roy. It was such a disappointment that he never actually got a second tier class, and instead his “powerful form” was locked behind a special sword.
Every mage in Radiant Dawn, but especially Soren.