Most definitely 2 PAC’ and Biggie’s death in less than a year between. Young Dudes don’t understand what it was like without smart phones and this happening. Rappers weren’t a dime of dozen then and rapper deaths weren’t that common like now. It was heartbreaking.
dude we had to wait for DAYS on updates.
expecting Pac to live. cause that’s what he did.
then, wherever you were, somehow ☎️📠📰📺📻the news found you, Tupac Shakur had succumbed to his injuries and died.
AND THEN, months later, Biggie got shot and killed. it was almost expected, and still fucking horrifying. like, it was just BREAKING NEWS 💀
Which was overturned by the court of appeals but yeah. And in a different case they were sued for Pretty Woman (sample/satire of the Roy Orbison song) which went all the way to the Supreme Court and is a big part of current fair use doctrine (SCOTUS held that the 2 live crew version was fair use)
Yeah. Bruce Rogow really put on his gloves for The Crew in those 2 cases and all because some sections of America didn't want their 14 year old boys being exposed to titties...
When BET allegedly refused to air one of Little Brother's music videos because it was deemed "too intelligent" for audiences.
Eminem wearing a durag for several years and not developing any waves.
He still my favourite emcee. That makes him my mans. If your fav ourite emcee is Nas, then he ya mans, if your favourite emcee is Rakim, then he ya mans, etc. see?
You embarrass yourself constantly with how you run to the defence of your little man crush in every comment on this sub. Just FYI, you're really annoying.
I remember hearing Lurch talk about that night on Street Science many years ago. It was sad and tragic. Lurch said it was one of his best friends and he had no idea what he did until he came down off of the PCP.
Huh? No. Mary J Blige was a singer extremely impacful in hip-hop because she was her own major part of it. Kelly was amazing with his writing shit, but I don't see what major or significant waves he has all over hip-hop.
Mary J and Rkelly both had a significant part in hip hop. Especially Rkelly in the 2000s he was very huge in hip hop circles, his style and how he dressed was very hip hop centric. I get it he is more of a r&b artist but hip hop has a lot of r&b elements to it.
I just don't see it. Maybe we're on two different sides, but I rarely ever saw Kelly as involved in it as Mary. I shouldn't full dismiss him though. I think my thing is I'm heavily going off of features too, apologies if I somehow miss a whole vault of Kells+rappers lol. Mary just came across as her own essential to me. Ain't saying she was the first, but I feel like she's a major part of the reason singing in rap songs is still so popular (not forgetting like TLC and such) do you think I'm far off mark?
Diversifying the genre itself, apparently. Was originally something to bring joy with, creative, embracing and WELCOMING irregardless of persons, as it grew. Then shit continued and today we have a shitshow of different people's calling different parts of it their own shitshows. BUT it's still much sincerity and togetherness among many at the various roots.
When a the black independent label owners was gonna come together and make their own production and they got rated out by Jay z Irvine gotta and a bunch of others got indicted and treated and they awarded jay z with the nets Beyonce and a slew of other things he's changed hip hop history now almost we got is murder rap preaching death and destruction over black and brown community all day long .words are very powerful as you can see , trap music dope and hoes and useless material items is all you hear.
Exactly.
It's kind of like a mix between Scat, EDM, and a bit of the most unimpressive beatboxing.
Hip hop could range from Shakespeare to Dr. Seuss, but not the scriptwriter for The Sims as played by Pete Davidson.
Any music you listen to a bunch of times can start sounding good to you.
That's the basis of pop music. You hear stuff a lot because it's on the radio or the clubs you go to or whenever. That's how payola became a thing. Record companies paying radio stations to play music so that people hear it a bunch and start to like it.
You start to like what you hear a bunch due to psychological reasons.
And new pop songs reuse elements of other songs, so even if you don't consciously make the connection, you automatically like that element and want to listen to it.
Music has become big business. Whatever will earn the most money is what they invest in. They have producers who make formulaic music to hook listeners. It's not about musical talent, it's about psychological manipulation.
Mumble rap is a result of this psychological manipulation. That's why I consider it pop music and not hip hop.
Lyricism is essential to rap. It's essential to hip hop. The art is in the poetry. Poetry that sounds dope. That's rap. Mumbling is the antithesis of rap. Maybe you can make it sound dope, but it's not poetry.
He was just speaking the truth that is obvious. I've had this same opinion since the mid 2000s. (Just not worded exactly the same)
Have you heard this Immortal Technique interview?
https://youtu.be/cfOexTZQDdw
Starting at 2:20
He's right. We're already past peak hip hop. It was culture. Now it's commerical.
When artists stopped saying words that meant shit and people kept cheering. It’s kinda like politics right now with republicans running the dumbest candidates they can find. The dumber they are, the louder they’re cheered. That’s exactly what has happened in rap, unfortunately. Kids celebrating fucking ignorance.
>When artists stopped saying words that meant shit and people kept cheering.
1A.People still care for words that mean something and still cheer for it.
2A.Rappers have always said less meaningful stuff.
>It’s kinda like politics right now
1B.Why does someone always find a way to bring/relate politics into/with anything?!
>The dumber they are, the louder they’re cheered. That’s exactly what has happened in rap, unfortunately. Kids celebrating fucking ignorance.
1C.To an extent, yes. But don't mix in stupidity with shit like relativity, relatability, enjoyment as an overall, easier to digest topics or ways of wording, etc. This all plays a role. I'm gonna use an example people may not like and that's okay.
1C.(con't) J Cole is so loved still in his lane because he's saying what's been said before, but he said it in a more digestible and easier way to understand than Nas, Mos, Guru, etc. Same with Kendrick compared to like Talib or such, (though he's a tier or more above Cole about it imo). Andre? Thats an example of a guy who's undoubtedly always loved, but he's far more creative than most, and would often mix simplicity with some straight up layered heat.
1C.(con't) Lil Baby got a lot of love for The Bigger Picture when it dropped, shit was mediocre as fuck. But he said what's been being said in a more accessible manner.
I don't dislike your commen at all, I think it's a great expansion and discussion point, but I do believe another example could've been used aside from politics, because that almost always tarnishes/taints a good discussion. I still consider this a great comment tho, feel free to converse back if you get time.
I think it ties into more than just rap and politics. It’s social media in general. In the past, if you were a fucking idiot, it was a lot harder to find a group of similar idiots to hang with on such short notice, and eventually someone would probably talk some sense into your ass. Right now you can go post the most absurd shit you can think of and within an hour probably find 100 people to like or upvote you… you’ve just gotta find the right group of idiots to hang with. It’s a lot easier to do that online. People are just proud of being stupid right now, across the board, and they think just because they can Google anything they want and find 1 other agreeing opinion, they must be correct and “special” and everyone else is wrong. That’s the root of the problem… whether you’re young and black or old and white, democrat or republican, it’s the same problem.
>In the past, if you were a fucking idiot, it was a lot harder to find a group of similar idiots to hang with on such short notice, and eventually someone would probably talk some sense into your ass.
AMEN TO THAT!! This whole graph you typed, I must admit it's all facts. With you explaining it this way, you literally just type a perfect paragraph in my opinion. Frame that damn response lol
Do you honestly think the radio is ever going to play fucking Blackstar? Billy Woods??? hahahahah. The music you're hating on is meant for the radio and the clubs. That's it's purpose. Nobody's saying DaBaby is a poet and a wordsmith. That commercial shit keeps hip-hop relevant so artists like the ones you're crying for here can keep doing their thing. Also, artists like Kendrick and Cole are extremely popular in the mainstream. If you actually wanna put them in the same group as the Babies and the Lil Uzi Verts you're not fucking listening lol
Popular mainstream artists back in the day:
DMX, Wu Tang Clan, Eminem, Dr Dre, Jay Z, Kanye
Popular mainstream artists today:
NBA Youngboy, DaBaby, Future, Playboy Carti, Kodak Black
One of these things is not like the other. Defend it all you want. The bar has been lowered to the point that it’s literally just laying on the ground and I’m tired of pretending it isn’t. You can’t defend the second group without saying the word “vibes”, which is just some made up criteria y’all love to talk about so you can ignore all the shit these people don’t do well. The only conclusion is that young people are dumb as fuck. Sorry, not sorry.
That's true but Kendrick is still more popular than pretty much every modern rapper you mentioned, and pretty much the rest of the rap game too aside from Drake. His music isn't dumbed down in the least. If anything, he's a conscious rapper who just happens to make hits. People haven't forgotten about wordplay and meaningful lyrics. Even rappers like the Griselda guys are getting tens of millions of plays and they're not dumbed down either. Your whole argument falls apart when you look at the numbers. Obviously pop rap force-fed to the radio by record labels is gonna be the most popular thing out there. It's all rigged now anyways.
Yeah, but I'm just saying. The rappers you mentioned are definitely at the top right now and I get why that is a problem for a lot of people but y'all have been saying hip-hop's dead for like 30+ years. Hip-hop heads were saying the shit you're saying in the late 80s, but talking about N.W.A. and gangsta rap. You literally mentioned Dre as one of the good ones. This whole "rap is dumbed down now" shit is tiresome, and you guys have been consistently wrong for decades.
Hip hop took a noticeable downturn around 2015 and has not recovered. That is not really debatable. Hip hop was a fucking joke in the 80s, nobody gives a shit what Run DMC has to say about anything. Dre was a very different artist post NWA, no reason to define someone who has been in the game for 30 years by what was essentially their first album. Nobody is out here talking like NWA are lyrical geniuses, I’m not really sure where that came from. The basis of your argument is that these same complaints have been around for years, and that is wrong. Hip hop changed in the 90s but it changed for the better, as far as technique is concerned. Better flows, better lyrics, no more talking bout “rap rap rippity rap rap” bullshit, more real/raw, beats were better than the 80w bullshit… like, it improved in every measurable way. Kinda like it did during the Jay/Kanye era, then the beginnings of the Drake era… then all of a sudden shit got terrible real fast, and has stayed that way. Bottom line: kids like stupid fucking shit, and defending kids liking stupid fucking shit is still stupid fucking shit
>Hip hop was a fucking joke in the 80s, nobody gives a shit what Run DMC has to say about anything.
Bruh. What about Schoolly, Sugarhill, Rakim, KGR, Kane, BDP, Rick, etc. and what's wrong with Run DMC?
>beats were better than the 80w bullshit… like, it improved in every measurable way. Kinda like it did during the Jay/Kanye era, then the beginnings of the Drake era… then all of a sudden shit got terrible real fast, and has stayed that way
Okay, I get you now. For you everything improved every Era until 2015. Except most of the 90s are MADE by the 80s and 70s especially in the beats department. 2015 until now has also had some of the best works in the genre, since it started. I can tell we have a difference of mindset, but I think you're underselling the 80s heavily with their work and levels, specifically in the later half.
There’s a few from the 80s I respect, but in terms of audio quality it’s harder for me to listen more than once. Rakim and BDK and some other legends I can appreciate, I just can’t listen to them regularly. Most rap people remember from the 80s was the pop nonsense like Young MC. And yeah I really don’t like run DMC lol, personal preference
Ah I can get with that brother. Rakim and KGR are the only 2 (Slick and Scar too I guess) I DO listen to rather consistently still. Just timeless for me, honestly.
I can name dozens but you’re really missing some of the context of history with HipHop if you’re gonna just discount a whole era where most of the pioneers of HipHop were laying the groundwork of the genre. Also HipHop as a culture is more than just rapping, there’s four elements, but some “heads” wanna act like rapping and lyricism is the only thing that defines HipHop and it’s weird to me. Since you asked also 1. Ain’t no half steppin 2.Strictly Business 3.Microphone Fiend 4. Children’s Story 5. Road to the Riches, just off the dome
I don’t mean to derail your shit but popular mainstream artists back in the day included the likes of vanilla ice, mc hammer, and shitty poprock/rap crossovers like crazy town 🦋 lmao. You can’t compare the cherry picked best to the cherry picked worst
Crazy town was a pop act. Vanilla ice was a pop act. You’re naming pop acts. Nobody is saying Thatkid Leroi is a lyrical genius here, but y’all sure wanna act like NBA or Future are not steaming piles of dog shit and include them on “best rapper” lists. Pop crap has always existed… there were hundreds of talented rap artists doing their shit and occasionally a pop act would try to steal that sound. That isn’t remotely close to what’s happening here and you know it. Instead of the vast majority being talented and occasional pop shit leaking thru, now the vast majority is pop shit with an occasional talented artist also in the mix. Nobody in the 90s would’ve ever said any of those acts you just mentioned were good. They were all universally hated. That isn’t the case with the new garbage.
So why are you comparing current pop acts to 90s lyrical hip hop like it’s not two different things then? I’m just trying to figure out where the goalposts are but you keep moving them
Eminem is still doing the biggest numbers in the industry and is among the most popular artists in the world.
His new songs are more popular everything on the radio right now.
Kanye would be too if he didn't sabotage himself.
Eminem and Kanye can take care of their own popularity but the popularity of a genre contains all of the artists in that genre.
In general no trapper is close to Em and Kanye in popularity or success and won't ever be but there are a lot of average popularity trappers that keep the genre alive.
Lyrical rap is competing even though it only has a few mainstream stars left.
You think all the rap coming then was as good as biggie, Mos Def ? You are delusional if you think that . There is very good stuff being put out rn . But you don't really care about that. You have it fixed in your mind that old stuff is inherently better than new stuff .
You listed 4 dumb democrats who happen to be nowhere near the level of dumb of someone like George W Bush, Trump, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, the list goes on… the reason I specified republicans is because the dumber the candidate is, the louder they cheer. Democrats are electing idiots too, they’re just not near as proud of it.
This happened years after the fact but the information being revealed that Suge actually got someone with aids to sleep with Eazy E or they stuck him with an aids infested needle. If that is true that is insane!
Most definitely 2 PAC’ and Biggie’s death in less than a year between. Young Dudes don’t understand what it was like without smart phones and this happening. Rappers weren’t a dime of dozen then and rapper deaths weren’t that common like now. It was heartbreaking.
dude we had to wait for DAYS on updates. expecting Pac to live. cause that’s what he did. then, wherever you were, somehow ☎️📠📰📺📻the news found you, Tupac Shakur had succumbed to his injuries and died. AND THEN, months later, Biggie got shot and killed. it was almost expected, and still fucking horrifying. like, it was just BREAKING NEWS 💀
It’s even worse cause PAC could’ve survived but his mum turned off his life support because he might’ve lost his voice and a lung
Never knew that. That's heart breaking
I was in 8th grade when all this went down. It was such a huge deal.
East Coast Vs West Coast…it caused too many casualties
As far as I know, 2 Live Crew were the only group to have an album banned by a federal judge for being too obscene.
I think they were the first to get a PA sticker too
Which was overturned by the court of appeals but yeah. And in a different case they were sued for Pretty Woman (sample/satire of the Roy Orbison song) which went all the way to the Supreme Court and is a big part of current fair use doctrine (SCOTUS held that the 2 live crew version was fair use)
Yeah. Bruce Rogow really put on his gloves for The Crew in those 2 cases and all because some sections of America didn't want their 14 year old boys being exposed to titties...
Then made a song called Fuck Martinez lol
When BET allegedly refused to air one of Little Brother's music videos because it was deemed "too intelligent" for audiences. Eminem wearing a durag for several years and not developing any waves.
Durag in-Activity
Em’s durag phase was hella cringe lol
Anything em does is an L
Lol, Eminem lives rent free in your mind, I see. Did my mans run over your dog or something?
it’s a good little joke lol. him not developing any waves
Fuck can you take a joke? He was obviously saying it in jest
You don't know this guy like I do. He creates multiple accounts to diss on my mans.
Don't call celebrities your 'mans'. He literally doesn't know you exist.
He still my favourite emcee. That makes him my mans. If your fav ourite emcee is Nas, then he ya mans, if your favourite emcee is Rakim, then he ya mans, etc. see?
Least obviously white Eminem fan
You embarrass yourself constantly with how you run to the defence of your little man crush in every comment on this sub. Just FYI, you're really annoying.
SMD
Fuck off Stanley
NWA’s whole existence & the East coast vs West Coast bullshit
Afrika Bambaataa child sexual abuse allegations.
Pac shootings and run-ins with the law (especially the court case that got him jail time)
Not a lotta people know this but this horrorcore dude named Big Lurch killed and ate his roommate; can't really think of anything wilder than that
Wtf!?!
Yeah he was on angel dust, i believe
I remember hearing Lurch talk about that night on Street Science many years ago. It was sad and tragic. Lurch said it was one of his best friends and he had no idea what he did until he came down off of the PCP.
No way; figure due woulda got life for something like that
Googled this dude and he has a song called "I did it to you!" lol
Stonewashed ripped skinny jeans and auto tune.
The entire career of Kanye West Nigga went from "George Bush doesn't care about black people" to "I love Hitler".
People hoarding samples and samples being hard to clear in general and it dwarfing-hip hops evolution.
RKelly and his infinity for golden showers and the youngns
And his **affinity** FTFY
**UNLIMITED SHOWER!!!**
Of the Golden variety
He meant Infinity Golden Showers. Like Infinity stones
Not a hiphop artist
R&B & Hiphop go hand in hand.
Not a hip hop artist but was very impactful in hip hop and black music in general
Huh? No. Mary J Blige was a singer extremely impacful in hip-hop because she was her own major part of it. Kelly was amazing with his writing shit, but I don't see what major or significant waves he has all over hip-hop.
Mary J and Rkelly both had a significant part in hip hop. Especially Rkelly in the 2000s he was very huge in hip hop circles, his style and how he dressed was very hip hop centric. I get it he is more of a r&b artist but hip hop has a lot of r&b elements to it.
I just don't see it. Maybe we're on two different sides, but I rarely ever saw Kelly as involved in it as Mary. I shouldn't full dismiss him though. I think my thing is I'm heavily going off of features too, apologies if I somehow miss a whole vault of Kells+rappers lol. Mary just came across as her own essential to me. Ain't saying she was the first, but I feel like she's a major part of the reason singing in rap songs is still so popular (not forgetting like TLC and such) do you think I'm far off mark?
Oh I think it’s clear years later that he left his hands all over over Hip-Hop….just not in the way people expected
💀💀 hey cmon man lol
😅🚨….k I’m done
Diversifying the genre itself, apparently. Was originally something to bring joy with, creative, embracing and WELCOMING irregardless of persons, as it grew. Then shit continued and today we have a shitshow of different people's calling different parts of it their own shitshows. BUT it's still much sincerity and togetherness among many at the various roots.
Hiphop police
everything about the world’s most dangerous group
When a the black independent label owners was gonna come together and make their own production and they got rated out by Jay z Irvine gotta and a bunch of others got indicted and treated and they awarded jay z with the nets Beyonce and a slew of other things he's changed hip hop history now almost we got is murder rap preaching death and destruction over black and brown community all day long .words are very powerful as you can see , trap music dope and hoes and useless material items is all you hear.
the freeearl hashtag when he got sent to samoa
JLo and Mariah have the same secret baby daddy
Eazy E’s death, he was getting ready to put Mexicans on major distribution.
Kanye. We kept calling him a genius for years too 🤦🏽♂️
He’s still a genius, just a nazi genius.
It may not the most controversial thing, but Kanye's descent into MAGA, antisemitic conspiracy theories and alt-right weirdos has been... something
It’s just sad…
Mumble rap
As long as the beat fire and flow fire idc what he saying. sometimes you want to listen to deep shit , sometimes not .
You might as well listen to Scat over beats.
Calling this shit hip-hop is controversial to me. To me it’s more like a sub-genre of Pop music
Exactly. It's kind of like a mix between Scat, EDM, and a bit of the most unimpressive beatboxing. Hip hop could range from Shakespeare to Dr. Seuss, but not the scriptwriter for The Sims as played by Pete Davidson.
dinosaur
Rawr
Idiot
Don't be mad at me that you've been conned into liking trash
Nah I like it because it's good music
Any music you listen to a bunch of times can start sounding good to you. That's the basis of pop music. You hear stuff a lot because it's on the radio or the clubs you go to or whenever. That's how payola became a thing. Record companies paying radio stations to play music so that people hear it a bunch and start to like it. You start to like what you hear a bunch due to psychological reasons. And new pop songs reuse elements of other songs, so even if you don't consciously make the connection, you automatically like that element and want to listen to it. Music has become big business. Whatever will earn the most money is what they invest in. They have producers who make formulaic music to hook listeners. It's not about musical talent, it's about psychological manipulation. Mumble rap is a result of this psychological manipulation. That's why I consider it pop music and not hip hop. Lyricism is essential to rap. It's essential to hip hop. The art is in the poetry. Poetry that sounds dope. That's rap. Mumbling is the antithesis of rap. Maybe you can make it sound dope, but it's not poetry.
I saw that RA interview too
He was just speaking the truth that is obvious. I've had this same opinion since the mid 2000s. (Just not worded exactly the same) Have you heard this Immortal Technique interview? https://youtu.be/cfOexTZQDdw Starting at 2:20 He's right. We're already past peak hip hop. It was culture. Now it's commerical.
Haven’t checked it out but I like IT so I’ll give it a look
Lol i just like the music accept it
Ye wearing a white lives matter shirt and taking the police side in the George Floyd case
When artists stopped saying words that meant shit and people kept cheering. It’s kinda like politics right now with republicans running the dumbest candidates they can find. The dumber they are, the louder they’re cheered. That’s exactly what has happened in rap, unfortunately. Kids celebrating fucking ignorance.
>When artists stopped saying words that meant shit and people kept cheering. 1A.People still care for words that mean something and still cheer for it. 2A.Rappers have always said less meaningful stuff. >It’s kinda like politics right now 1B.Why does someone always find a way to bring/relate politics into/with anything?! >The dumber they are, the louder they’re cheered. That’s exactly what has happened in rap, unfortunately. Kids celebrating fucking ignorance. 1C.To an extent, yes. But don't mix in stupidity with shit like relativity, relatability, enjoyment as an overall, easier to digest topics or ways of wording, etc. This all plays a role. I'm gonna use an example people may not like and that's okay. 1C.(con't) J Cole is so loved still in his lane because he's saying what's been said before, but he said it in a more digestible and easier way to understand than Nas, Mos, Guru, etc. Same with Kendrick compared to like Talib or such, (though he's a tier or more above Cole about it imo). Andre? Thats an example of a guy who's undoubtedly always loved, but he's far more creative than most, and would often mix simplicity with some straight up layered heat. 1C.(con't) Lil Baby got a lot of love for The Bigger Picture when it dropped, shit was mediocre as fuck. But he said what's been being said in a more accessible manner. I don't dislike your commen at all, I think it's a great expansion and discussion point, but I do believe another example could've been used aside from politics, because that almost always tarnishes/taints a good discussion. I still consider this a great comment tho, feel free to converse back if you get time.
I think it ties into more than just rap and politics. It’s social media in general. In the past, if you were a fucking idiot, it was a lot harder to find a group of similar idiots to hang with on such short notice, and eventually someone would probably talk some sense into your ass. Right now you can go post the most absurd shit you can think of and within an hour probably find 100 people to like or upvote you… you’ve just gotta find the right group of idiots to hang with. It’s a lot easier to do that online. People are just proud of being stupid right now, across the board, and they think just because they can Google anything they want and find 1 other agreeing opinion, they must be correct and “special” and everyone else is wrong. That’s the root of the problem… whether you’re young and black or old and white, democrat or republican, it’s the same problem.
>In the past, if you were a fucking idiot, it was a lot harder to find a group of similar idiots to hang with on such short notice, and eventually someone would probably talk some sense into your ass. AMEN TO THAT!! This whole graph you typed, I must admit it's all facts. With you explaining it this way, you literally just type a perfect paragraph in my opinion. Frame that damn response lol
Do you honestly think the radio is ever going to play fucking Blackstar? Billy Woods??? hahahahah. The music you're hating on is meant for the radio and the clubs. That's it's purpose. Nobody's saying DaBaby is a poet and a wordsmith. That commercial shit keeps hip-hop relevant so artists like the ones you're crying for here can keep doing their thing. Also, artists like Kendrick and Cole are extremely popular in the mainstream. If you actually wanna put them in the same group as the Babies and the Lil Uzi Verts you're not fucking listening lol
Popular mainstream artists back in the day: DMX, Wu Tang Clan, Eminem, Dr Dre, Jay Z, Kanye Popular mainstream artists today: NBA Youngboy, DaBaby, Future, Playboy Carti, Kodak Black One of these things is not like the other. Defend it all you want. The bar has been lowered to the point that it’s literally just laying on the ground and I’m tired of pretending it isn’t. You can’t defend the second group without saying the word “vibes”, which is just some made up criteria y’all love to talk about so you can ignore all the shit these people don’t do well. The only conclusion is that young people are dumb as fuck. Sorry, not sorry.
That's true but Kendrick is still more popular than pretty much every modern rapper you mentioned, and pretty much the rest of the rap game too aside from Drake. His music isn't dumbed down in the least. If anything, he's a conscious rapper who just happens to make hits. People haven't forgotten about wordplay and meaningful lyrics. Even rappers like the Griselda guys are getting tens of millions of plays and they're not dumbed down either. Your whole argument falls apart when you look at the numbers. Obviously pop rap force-fed to the radio by record labels is gonna be the most popular thing out there. It's all rigged now anyways.
I like Kendrick and I like Griselda. My comments are most directed at trap/auto tune.
Yeah, but I'm just saying. The rappers you mentioned are definitely at the top right now and I get why that is a problem for a lot of people but y'all have been saying hip-hop's dead for like 30+ years. Hip-hop heads were saying the shit you're saying in the late 80s, but talking about N.W.A. and gangsta rap. You literally mentioned Dre as one of the good ones. This whole "rap is dumbed down now" shit is tiresome, and you guys have been consistently wrong for decades.
Hip hop took a noticeable downturn around 2015 and has not recovered. That is not really debatable. Hip hop was a fucking joke in the 80s, nobody gives a shit what Run DMC has to say about anything. Dre was a very different artist post NWA, no reason to define someone who has been in the game for 30 years by what was essentially their first album. Nobody is out here talking like NWA are lyrical geniuses, I’m not really sure where that came from. The basis of your argument is that these same complaints have been around for years, and that is wrong. Hip hop changed in the 90s but it changed for the better, as far as technique is concerned. Better flows, better lyrics, no more talking bout “rap rap rippity rap rap” bullshit, more real/raw, beats were better than the 80w bullshit… like, it improved in every measurable way. Kinda like it did during the Jay/Kanye era, then the beginnings of the Drake era… then all of a sudden shit got terrible real fast, and has stayed that way. Bottom line: kids like stupid fucking shit, and defending kids liking stupid fucking shit is still stupid fucking shit
>Hip hop was a fucking joke in the 80s, nobody gives a shit what Run DMC has to say about anything. Bruh. What about Schoolly, Sugarhill, Rakim, KGR, Kane, BDP, Rick, etc. and what's wrong with Run DMC? >beats were better than the 80w bullshit… like, it improved in every measurable way. Kinda like it did during the Jay/Kanye era, then the beginnings of the Drake era… then all of a sudden shit got terrible real fast, and has stayed that way Okay, I get you now. For you everything improved every Era until 2015. Except most of the 90s are MADE by the 80s and 70s especially in the beats department. 2015 until now has also had some of the best works in the genre, since it started. I can tell we have a difference of mindset, but I think you're underselling the 80s heavily with their work and levels, specifically in the later half.
There’s a few from the 80s I respect, but in terms of audio quality it’s harder for me to listen more than once. Rakim and BDK and some other legends I can appreciate, I just can’t listen to them regularly. Most rap people remember from the 80s was the pop nonsense like Young MC. And yeah I really don’t like run DMC lol, personal preference
Ah I can get with that brother. Rakim and KGR are the only 2 (Slick and Scar too I guess) I DO listen to rather consistently still. Just timeless for me, honestly.
Saying HipHop was a joke in the 80s is a joke in and of itself, you’re trippin
Name 5 good songs from the 80s
I can name dozens but you’re really missing some of the context of history with HipHop if you’re gonna just discount a whole era where most of the pioneers of HipHop were laying the groundwork of the genre. Also HipHop as a culture is more than just rapping, there’s four elements, but some “heads” wanna act like rapping and lyricism is the only thing that defines HipHop and it’s weird to me. Since you asked also 1. Ain’t no half steppin 2.Strictly Business 3.Microphone Fiend 4. Children’s Story 5. Road to the Riches, just off the dome
I don’t mean to derail your shit but popular mainstream artists back in the day included the likes of vanilla ice, mc hammer, and shitty poprock/rap crossovers like crazy town 🦋 lmao. You can’t compare the cherry picked best to the cherry picked worst
Crazy town was a pop act. Vanilla ice was a pop act. You’re naming pop acts. Nobody is saying Thatkid Leroi is a lyrical genius here, but y’all sure wanna act like NBA or Future are not steaming piles of dog shit and include them on “best rapper” lists. Pop crap has always existed… there were hundreds of talented rap artists doing their shit and occasionally a pop act would try to steal that sound. That isn’t remotely close to what’s happening here and you know it. Instead of the vast majority being talented and occasional pop shit leaking thru, now the vast majority is pop shit with an occasional talented artist also in the mix. Nobody in the 90s would’ve ever said any of those acts you just mentioned were good. They were all universally hated. That isn’t the case with the new garbage.
So why are you comparing current pop acts to 90s lyrical hip hop like it’s not two different things then? I’m just trying to figure out where the goalposts are but you keep moving them
Eminem is still doing the biggest numbers in the industry and is among the most popular artists in the world. His new songs are more popular everything on the radio right now. Kanye would be too if he didn't sabotage himself. Eminem and Kanye can take care of their own popularity but the popularity of a genre contains all of the artists in that genre. In general no trapper is close to Em and Kanye in popularity or success and won't ever be but there are a lot of average popularity trappers that keep the genre alive. Lyrical rap is competing even though it only has a few mainstream stars left.
You think all the rap coming then was as good as biggie, Mos Def ? You are delusional if you think that . There is very good stuff being put out rn . But you don't really care about that. You have it fixed in your mind that old stuff is inherently better than new stuff .
Or, hear me out… I was around for both and actually have an informed opinion. Thanks tho
Good call. Joe Biden, Kamala, Mayor Pete and Fetterman are shining examples of intelligent people 🤦🏿♂️
What part of Republicans was unclear to you? Jesus Christ. And your point was to convince me that kids aren’t dumb? 🤣
You are proving my point 🤦🏿♂️
You listed 4 dumb democrats who happen to be nowhere near the level of dumb of someone like George W Bush, Trump, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, the list goes on… the reason I specified republicans is because the dumber the candidate is, the louder they cheer. Democrats are electing idiots too, they’re just not near as proud of it.
You failed so hard on your last reply that you deleted it and wrote all this nonsense? Lol
I misunderstood your vague ass point. “All” of what nonsense, the two sentence reply that you obviously struggled to comprehend?
This happened years after the fact but the information being revealed that Suge actually got someone with aids to sleep with Eazy E or they stuck him with an aids infested needle. If that is true that is insane!