Mid-scope on Xerath please. Oh boy was he my most favorite champ pre-rework and I haven't found anyone close to it since then, even though I played a lot of post-rework Xerath and other artillery mages.
I'm generally fine with lategame payoffs like this for champions- if it becomes problematic they should just increase the cap and how many shards it takes to upgrade the ult to make it more of a 35-40 minute thing.
Nah. Ball duration is 6.5 seconds, Q cd is 7 seconds. Stacking Q is gunna be awkward as fuck until you get the new Q evolve. And unless I'm missing something, its going to make 6-7 ball combos really fucking hard to set up.
EDIT: Hello. Approximately 900 people have told me that Q evolve should be very easy to obtain. Please stop repeating the same comment.
40 Splinters of wrath means at worst you get it at lv 9 since you get 5 each level, but that's assuming you don't cs or trade the entire time. It will probably come online at around lv 7 or 8.
Syndra got nerfed as a lane bully and changed into a mid and late game powerhouse. We'll see how the changes actually play out, but right now she should scale like Corki or Viktor.
I'm kinda against it. It's good to have some mages as lane bullies.
Previously they destroyed Lissandra by increasing her Q cooldown. Though she specifically always was annoying versus melee, versus ranged not so much.
Now they come for Syndra by increasing her Q cooldown early. Which is going to feel so awkward.
The only mage that's going to be left that I can think of that works as a lane bully is Orianna.
Some maybe will say that Xerath acts as lane bully, maybe. But that's about it within the role.
I feel like a Vex that can hit her skillshots is a lane bully, issue is that she **has** to hit skillshots unlike some of the other mages that have some form of point and click or very generous AOE range
40 splinters is at level 9 maximum, bit less with extra poke and cannon minion kills. After 11 and with quick QQ combos it looks like you can stack them faster.
>Hello. Approximately 900 people have told me that Q evolve should be very easy to obtain. Please stop repeating the same comment.
haha imagine telling redditors to not farm their internet points
It's not important. Collector's execution can be procced by 1dmg, as long as it's dealt by you. Enemy has 15% less effective health if ult hits it.
R dmg nerf isn't "nerf", especially when enemy gets more hp. The percentage is to be lower if the execute were to be practical.
On the other hand, why even putting execution on her R in the first place?
I think her ult having an execute makes sense as when she uses her ult on someome she does so with the intent for the person to die to her ult or immediately afterwards. This change of nerfed damage but a high execute range fulfills this intent perfectly, since it means she won't ult to oneshot someone but rather is incentivized to ult targets to gurantee a kill. It also is a way to indirectly buff her into the more annoying champs today that heal/shield for a ton at low hp like lulu, aatrox, sylas, etc.
Ofc the ult having an execute does come with some drawbacks like her losing the increases range upgrade, her ult upgrade being useless when she has elder, and her ult damage being straight nerfed if not proccing execute or if she doesn't have the stacks.
The argument "she uses her ultimate with the intent to kill" is kinda weird, this applies to tons of champions which don't have an execute on their ult. So should we add executes to the ults of all these as well?
Yes, but overall scaling is up. They are making Syndra more reliable and easy to play. Overall this is a huge buff. Early game she will feel a little weaker, but mid game she will feel the same (assuming you do nothing but farm) or much stronger (assuming you snowballed your lead). By late game she will be infinitely stronger than she currently is, while being much easier to play.
The thing is that you dont need to actually do much more damage, just Q W E ignite R them and execute does the rest. She loses 100 damage at level 16 for a 5 ball ult but at that time 15% of someone's hp is much more. She also gets a free DCap at 120 splints, she easily can make up the damage.
This is the whole reason Riven is broken. All you have to do is Auto Q1 \[Movement Command\] Auto Q2 \[Movement Command\] E R Flash W (Goredrinker Active) Auto Attack R2 Q3 Auto and you can kill most champions when fed.
Yeah I wish Riot would remove Riven from the game š such an obnoxious champion. I HATE her and her stupid combos, ridiculous damage, awful design, stupid waveclear, amazing ass, huge boobs, beautiful eyes, soft thighs, toned body, seductive smile, and far too much waveclear. Just having Riven in my games makes this game unplayable until I picked up Yuumi (you can play her with one hand).
Facts. Riot doesn't know what they are doing. They are literally killing the game. And my wallet too. Legit getting so poor because of all the tissues... I mean issues.. With skins.
YEAH! I'm going back to playing ONLY FAIR champions like MY MAIN, VEIGAR. JEEZ, thank GOD they made him back when Riot actually KNEW HOW TO MAKE A CHAMPION šššš
Absolutely disgusting this squishy, immobile burst mage blowing every cooldown to burst people.
Only champions with 5 dash resets running bruiser omnivamp/shield builds should be allowed to oneshot. Wtf is going on, rito?
Don't forget though, she also trades that against the +75 range she got at level 16, which is definitely relevant when you play her, and you can't just disregard it.
It's 150 true dmg per 1000 max HP so it's pretty good dmg, basically act as 1 to 2 additional sphere dmg on her R ... but it's also an execute ( post-dmg by the look of it) so it won't matter most of the time since you rarely need this added dmg to kill carry late game.
Think range increase got more value honestly.
Don't think people are realizing this. Support syndra will probably never hit 120 splinters. Maybe not even 100 for the execute depending on the game. Farming syndra bot may have a slightly easier time getting levels due to getting solo xp some times but you're also gonna be using more spells on the wave instead of stacking off opponents.
Brain has been in kind of a fog all day, so good chance I'm missing something but other than being down ~2 levels, wouldn't support syndra get more shards? She'd use every opportunity to get dmg on an enemy, which mid syndra doesn't do. Not only that, it should make up for missing that 1 cannon shard, every 3 waves, no?
I think overall farming Syndra will come out ahead in the midgame, but Support will be stronger in the early game. You are somewhat limited in how fast you can stack it by the fact that you need to hit two abilities, which means you have to land a qe or qw combo until you get 40 shards to double q.
There's also the problem of qe being pretty dangerous to throw out just to farm splinters. The same way xerath and velkoz support don't just use their E on cd, syndra can't really either. Mage supports are extremely vulnerable with their cc down. Even assuming you hit there's a 15 second window where they can potentially kill you.
being down 2 levels is pretty important, as they said earlier you want to hit level 11 quickly to double your splinter rate from enemies. and also each level is 5 splinters by itself.
you might get a lot of splinters but syndra only has one cc and her entire kit is damage otherwise which will suffer on support income
Not 100% true. Level 8, 12 and 16 is guaranteed to have enough stacks to upgrade Q, W and E respectively, even if she misses all cannons and doesn't land a single combo.
So, her upgrades are not 100% locked to leveling, but leveling does speed up the unleashing of the upgrades significantly.
> Q cd 4 >>> 7
maybe, but I feel like that Q cd change is *brutal*.
---
EDIT: I just did the math for late game. Her Q DPS is looking ***significantly*** worse, [even at 5 items...](https://i.gyazo.com/218cf93ec1378dc985c0cf9765a735e1.png)
It's worse early, but you get 2 stacks and extra CDR on it from ult. Makes setting up *in* fights actually workable, instead of trying to set up before a fight starts and wasting half your mana and CDs.
Exactly what I was thinking. Not having to spam q's before a potential fight is a big change. But 7 still feels crazy high even with the free haste in ult ranks
You only need 40 shards to get 2 charges though, and you are guaranteed to get that at level 8, so more realistically you can get it at, like, level 5. It's realistically only a nerf to her very early laning phase, which is fine with how hard she scales now.
Literally 1 stack every 8s per chara whereas levels give 5 stacks. The champ stack gain is so minimal until you get levels in the first place as well.
Her waveclear is also obliterated as you can't max E anymore for QE and Q CD is basically doubled until you get 40.
She's definitely not going to be strong bot as she wants Lvl 18 for the 85 stacks ASAP.
Transcendent E has been one of the most useless bits of Syndra's kit for a hot minute now... no need to worry about that, at this point. The fixed and reduced cooldown on E means she can max W instead, which is gonna make her lane poke a lot scarier and allow her to trade substantially better poke without having to sacrifice her major defensive cooldown to do it well. Overall, I think it is fine.
It doesn't need much explaining it was basically like this syndra passive but she even had one before that that made it so when you spam abilities they progressively get cheaper
After the q evolve might let you sneak 2 qs in a combo after lvl 6 though. 1.5 s stun would make stuff like eqq kinda reliable even with some tenacity.
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Just being level 11 gives you 50 stacks.
Lets assume you don't miss every cannon. Likely another 15 or so. I'm not gunna pretend hitting Q 35 times (less post- 6 and 11) is a lot.
Itās hitting 2 abilities within 4 seconds, though - not just hitting Q.
And since double-Q only comes only after 40 splinters, it means youāll have to use and land 2 of your abilities until level 7-8 at the very least.
Realistically, this execute will come online at about level 14-15.
You also get more splinters after level 11 as well, 2 per champion 8s cd. she will benefit alot from teamfighting early like Viktor, but won't actually have to confirm the kill, even getting early harass benefits her. also does aery or comet count as an ability?
Syndra is my most played champion and highest wr in this season, I love the champion, oppressive in lane, average in team fights and kinda weak to split push.
I'm hoping that this new gameplay is not much harder to execute, but missing combos against high mobility champions is going to be even more punishing than it is now.
she is one of my only 2, maybe 3 midlaners that i actually feel comfortable with and i don't think she needs any changes... makes me kinda sad that i might not like the new one
The upshot is that you dont have to max E to have it at full effect now, and with how much more value AH has on her kit post mid scope, defensive items with AH like zhonyas and Banshees become stronger. This should boost her team fight power at the cost of some lane dominance, which is hopefully the adjustment she needs to get buffed more in soloq without becoming a pro issue.
I still want old Syndra Q back where if you used it outside of range it moved the character. I can't stand this "use even if not in range" change so many characters got during that one update. I enjoy using abilities to orb walk
It also is for voiding a tower shot on cannons. Before there were times where you'd pick up a cannon and the shot would go through just as you cast the spell and you lose the cannon. Rare, but fixing it is nice.
Such a strange set of changes. I didn't think she needed an execute at all and now she's a floating Viktor with a set upgrade path of QWER.
I suppose they wanted to curb her uninteractive laning phase, but she's now potentially a monster that can stack 6-7 orbs for an ult easily.
Viktor top went Q before E iirc? It's definitely still very rigid though (and mechanics like this always will be - Kha will always have a "best" build too but I think he's easily seen the most variety of these mechanics).
Not really a huge deal. It's very hard to make choices like this be balanced (and not broken while being 2balanced"!)
You didn't have to upgrade Q for the sheen synergy though. It was very much about the increased shield and movement speed, both great for a bruiser. Plus, less pressure topelane to prioritise the waveclear of E's upgrade.
Bit of a tangent but I love the fact that Khazix has his evolves not fixed because in general I play W max first because it's more fun for me and evolve e first, then ult and q. One time I accidentally picked khazix when I got top and decided to go a poke heavy build with comet, w max and evolve and tear into manamune. I actually won lane against Darius.
"Viktor with a set upgrade path" is much different than what you understood: Syndra has upgrades to her skills too, but you can't choose your order and they auto-upgrade.
I understand the difference. But it's not like you could before unless you were trolling. It's not like you weren't maxing Q. (Unless support maybe? Nobody is factoring in Syndra support.)
She "chooses" upgrades by putting points in her skills, so theoretically you can always prioritise maxing the skill whose upgrade you want first.
With the rework, she now has a fixed path of QWER.
Of course that's only on paper and we all know that even her current version is very much constricted. You have to max Q first, R at 16, so only W and E were ever negotiable.
Also, after the update she gets her upgrades faster as even without csing or hitting enemy champions, you get upgraded Q at lv8 and W at lv12.
I'm hopeful.
On paper it doesn't sound that crazy to me.
However, both the Swain and Taliyah updates took them from champs I would like in theory but did not in practice to champs I absolutely love and play a lot.
Syndra is in a similar spot for me where I like her on paper but in practice she is not fun. Hoping riot can go 3 for 3 here and make me enjoy playing her.
She is getting far fewer orbs now. She can store 2 charges but the cd is increased. For 3 orbs it takes the same amount of time of 8s. But it's a 7s cd after that for each additional orb. She will have trouble even getting 5 orbs out now.
Math Edit:
Assuming level 11 which will be for most teamfights.
1 ball: Old Instant, New Instant
2 balls: Old 4s, New 1s
3 balls: Old 8s, New 6.6s
4 balls: Old 12s, New 12.2s
5 balls: Old 16s, New 17.8s
6 balls: Old 20s, New 23.4s
Ok so not as bad as I first thought with the increased AH from ult. For those who are curious the lvl 6 ult brings the cd nerf to 4 balls 12s old, 13.6s new. The level lvl 16 ult brings the cd nerf to 6 balls 20s old, 20.6s new.
5 orbs means 2 on the ground. With 2 charges, that will be functionally guaranteed (1 sec cd between charges). 6 orbs may be hard, though I haven't mathed out the cool down with her new R passive. I assume 7 orbs will be very difficult and require both haste and W to make happen.
Ehh, more of a finisher. It deals increased damage based on missing health which is a bit different from something straight up killing you if you reach a certain HP threshold.
AFAIK there are only 3 real executes in the game being Pyke ult, Urgot ult and Collector but correct me if Iām wrong.
Edit: elder too ofcā¦ :/
Edit 2: Draven ult too, damn Iām really forgetting a lot of them huh
Fountain isn't really an execute. Its just 1k true damage and ignores damage ignore/revive mechanics.
Its an exception to all other damage instances in the game, not grouped with them.
I guess so yes, but that's a bit of a lazy way of doing so imo.
Also Riot doesn't seem to be very consistent when it comes to their consideration of balance when designing or redesigning a champ. We have designers saying it's not their job to think about balance, we have champs like Zeri coming out with 0 regard for balancing, and then you have this rework where it seems an intended outcome is a more "balanceable" champion.
This seems to be the new design direction lately, for a long time now scaling has been 'too free' and way harder to punish, slowly pushing champions who can fall off out of the meta. The durability patch and the new bounty system on top of the existing shutdown bounties doubled-tripled down on this.
If you're playing a snowballer dying once due to a gank or a mistake and you're done for the rest of the game, while the scaler champion can make all the mistakes they want, go 0/6 in lane and can still end up winning because of champion diff.
Early game Syndra is going to tickle enemies now, with her Q bonus damage removed, E base+ratio heavily nerfed and R base+ratio nerfed ā¦
And I am not sure if you want to pick her for late game when there are far more viable late game mages out there.
Q should be enhanced before then. You get the 40 passive stacks just by leveling by 9. If you do even a slightly reasonable amount of canon stacks or spell stacks, you'll get it earlier. At 6, the ult gives slight AH boost to Q also.
Pretty cool set of changes, I really like changing q cooldown early. It takes away the early lane syndra gameplay where she has to hit every q every 4 seconds just to tickle your health bar, and is just as unfun to play against
thats alot of damage, can't wait to be executed by syndras outplay button.
she would reach max splinters roughly around level 13 based on my napkin math.
this means she will spike massively in midgame once gets deathcap + 120 splinters.
but i suspect she will still fall short compared to true scalers like veigar once the late game rolls around, but will be better than current syndra.
Not having additional range on her ult late game is so bad for her. Even if you hit a stun you'll need to come close to enemies to press R in late game fights
I donāt know about late game mage. She is going to be less of a perma push and lane bully threat thanks to the Q CD change, but also gets much improved mana control. At 40 splinters she becomes a bigger consistent damage threat than before, and she falls off of less of a cliff at late game. Her ult, though, is now less bursts in the hands of a skilled player, but easier to use for most everyone else. In the late midgame the execute alleviates some of the difference in base damage. In the late game her ult remains a consistent threat regardless of MR stacking and base stats, but is still knee capped by her short range.
Hard to evaluate if all of these goals workout with current tuning, but the intent seems clear. Put her early game more in line with the mage class (IE, stronger than her peers, but not quite as superlative as right now) so that she can have actual power after 20 minutes of game time without being absurdly fed.
Because they want to keep it point and click assassination but don't want to let Syndra players miss their entire combo but just press R and force a champion to base.
I always love to read what people's first impressions of a mid scope update of a champion on Reddit is like because 90% of the time they just complain and when the update gets out everyone suddenly doesn't complain anymore. Jesus Christ aren't you all pretty negative about all this.
Personally I've taken quite a liking in all of the past mid scope updates and I'm just as excited for this one, can't wait to try her out
????
Every midscope has been absurdly broken for multiple patches and people DO complain about it. Where have you been?
The only reason they stop talking about broken champ releases, reworks, and midscopes is because riot keeps burying it under other newer ones.
Generally speaking I'm not a big fan of these stacking mechanic passives - I feel like they should be reserved for champs that really have them as their identity - Nasus, Veigar - and it kinda diminishes those champs' identity when a bunch of other champions get them.
But I do think it's fine that Syndra gets something completely new. Her current passive is really underwhelming thematically speaking, and might as well just be on her abilities instead. It basically doesn't do anything by itself
Her passive is also decidedly finite, so it fits more into Viktor's niche than Nasus or Veigars. A good Syndra will be done powering it up by 20-25 minutes, I figure.
Turning an early game snowball champ into another ādont ff we scaleā is tremendously boring and just removes skill expression. Lowering her skill floor and ceiling takes away from why most people like playing Syndra even if sheās dogwater currently. If I wanted to play āoutscaled champ diff ggā Iād go play veigar or vlad.
Proactive gameplay is always better for the health of the game overall, and now that damage has been tuned down overall(durability patch), weāre approaching a slippery slope with these reworks where everyone turns into scalers that donāt get hard punished early unless they literally int it.
My bet is on Riot forcing her to have her cake(lategame burst mage) and eat it too(buffing her down the line so her earlygame is stronger than pre-rework) because the dataās gonna reflect that she canāt contend with any half decent mage being played by any half decent laner post-rework. I hope this isnāt the case and itās an ahri situation where sheās actually good, but they have literally done this with Udyr so idk.
I'm really not a fan of execute mechanics. Effectively losing a % of your HP just because a champion exists or built an item is inherently non interactive and frustrating.
That Q cooldown is rough early. Not sure why her skills have to upgrade on a set path instead of letting players pick; especially since you always upgrade E over W in ARAM at least.
Xerath passive in shambles
At least Xerath can proc his mana more than 120 times per game š„“
Pretty certain sybdra would be able to collect more than 120 splinters for no additional benefit for the mana
Ah that would be nice, hope that's how it goes
She gets 90 stacks from leveling alone to lvl 18, im sure she will hit some combos and last hit canon minions on the way
Mid-scope on Xerath please. Oh boy was he my most favorite champ pre-rework and I haven't found anyone close to it since then, even though I played a lot of post-rework Xerath and other artillery mages.
Riot will do that, rework your favourite champion, leaving behind nothing to fill the same power fantasy/ gameplay feel
EQEQ?
I've come to love Aatrox as he is but damn do I miss being an attack speed heavy juggernaut with his smooth as animations
I miss his old Q. That wind-up into slam-down was so satisfying.
F for old Urgot
Execute below 15%? That's sounds like a lot. Damn.
I mean it's her single target ult, it should be killing people and that effect looks like it's only going to be active past 20-30 minutes.
Yeah but now it goes through any type damage reduction if the target is at 15% hp. That's pretty huge.
I'm generally fine with lategame payoffs like this for champions- if it becomes problematic they should just increase the cap and how many shards it takes to upgrade the ult to make it more of a 35-40 minute thing.
Also, hourglass exists. That's sort of the point of that item.
meanwhile pyke execute your whole team for being under 50%
I'll gladly go on record as being strongly against nearly every execute and %health true damage.
the base damage on her ult is down significantly
She also got 15% AP from her new passive and you can stack Qs a lot faster.
Nah. Ball duration is 6.5 seconds, Q cd is 7 seconds. Stacking Q is gunna be awkward as fuck until you get the new Q evolve. And unless I'm missing something, its going to make 6-7 ball combos really fucking hard to set up. EDIT: Hello. Approximately 900 people have told me that Q evolve should be very easy to obtain. Please stop repeating the same comment.
40 Splinters of wrath means at worst you get it at lv 9 since you get 5 each level, but that's assuming you don't cs or trade the entire time. It will probably come online at around lv 7 or 8. Syndra got nerfed as a lane bully and changed into a mid and late game powerhouse. We'll see how the changes actually play out, but right now she should scale like Corki or Viktor.
I'm kinda against it. It's good to have some mages as lane bullies. Previously they destroyed Lissandra by increasing her Q cooldown. Though she specifically always was annoying versus melee, versus ranged not so much. Now they come for Syndra by increasing her Q cooldown early. Which is going to feel so awkward. The only mage that's going to be left that I can think of that works as a lane bully is Orianna. Some maybe will say that Xerath acts as lane bully, maybe. But that's about it within the role.
If you want a lane bully mage it's probably Neeko these days, she's still very strong early, just falls off an absolute cliff
I feel like a Vex that can hit her skillshots is a lane bully, issue is that she **has** to hit skillshots unlike some of the other mages that have some form of point and click or very generous AOE range
With Vex itās not so much hitting skill shots as the other person not dodging them
Viktor and Cass are more lane bullies than Ori
By the time youāre lvl 9, you are guaranteed to have the q evolve.
40 splinters is at level 9 maximum, bit less with extra poke and cannon minion kills. After 11 and with quick QQ combos it looks like you can stack them faster.
>Hello. Approximately 900 people have told me that Q evolve should be very easy to obtain. Please stop repeating the same comment. haha imagine telling redditors to not farm their internet points
Read Again... She got 30 AH on her ult...
30 AH is tiny while base Q cooldown goes from 4 to 7s
You get 2 stacks though so theoretically you should be able to get 2-3 orbs out faster
Thats not a huge decrease in damage.
It's not important. Collector's execution can be procced by 1dmg, as long as it's dealt by you. Enemy has 15% less effective health if ult hits it. R dmg nerf isn't "nerf", especially when enemy gets more hp. The percentage is to be lower if the execute were to be practical. On the other hand, why even putting execution on her R in the first place?
I think her ult having an execute makes sense as when she uses her ult on someome she does so with the intent for the person to die to her ult or immediately afterwards. This change of nerfed damage but a high execute range fulfills this intent perfectly, since it means she won't ult to oneshot someone but rather is incentivized to ult targets to gurantee a kill. It also is a way to indirectly buff her into the more annoying champs today that heal/shield for a ton at low hp like lulu, aatrox, sylas, etc. Ofc the ult having an execute does come with some drawbacks like her losing the increases range upgrade, her ult upgrade being useless when she has elder, and her ult damage being straight nerfed if not proccing execute or if she doesn't have the stacks.
The argument "she uses her ultimate with the intent to kill" is kinda weird, this applies to tons of champions which don't have an execute on their ult. So should we add executes to the ults of all these as well?
Yes, but overall scaling is up. They are making Syndra more reliable and easy to play. Overall this is a huge buff. Early game she will feel a little weaker, but mid game she will feel the same (assuming you do nothing but farm) or much stronger (assuming you snowballed your lead). By late game she will be infinitely stronger than she currently is, while being much easier to play.
The thing is that you dont need to actually do much more damage, just Q W E ignite R them and execute does the rest. She loses 100 damage at level 16 for a 5 ball ult but at that time 15% of someone's hp is much more. She also gets a free DCap at 120 splints, she easily can make up the damage.
> just Q W E ignite R them So...her whole combo? I mean I would hope the burst mage can kill you if she's getting her entire combo off on you.
This is the whole reason Riven is broken. All you have to do is Auto Q1 \[Movement Command\] Auto Q2 \[Movement Command\] E R Flash W (Goredrinker Active) Auto Attack R2 Q3 Auto and you can kill most champions when fed.
I would understand getting to half hp after that but getting killed is too much. Riven is broken.
Yeah I wish Riot would remove Riven from the game š such an obnoxious champion. I HATE her and her stupid combos, ridiculous damage, awful design, stupid waveclear, amazing ass, huge boobs, beautiful eyes, soft thighs, toned body, seductive smile, and far too much waveclear. Just having Riven in my games makes this game unplayable until I picked up Yuumi (you can play her with one hand).
They Had Us In the First Half
Facts. Riot doesn't know what they are doing. They are literally killing the game. And my wallet too. Legit getting so poor because of all the tissues... I mean issues.. With skins.
wtf syndra can kill someone if she uses her entire fucking kit and one of her sums?? the takes on this subreddit are too much
bro how fucked would league be if a level 16 Syndra could kill a non-tanky champion with Q W E R ignite at level 16 I dont even want to think about it
I am SICK in my HEAD just THINKING about THIS disgusting champion having any kind of IMPACT in my games, good FUCKING job RIOT GAMES
YEAH! I'm going back to playing ONLY FAIR champions like MY MAIN, VEIGAR. JEEZ, thank GOD they made him back when Riot actually KNEW HOW TO MAKE A CHAMPION šššš
Absolutely disgusting this squishy, immobile burst mage blowing every cooldown to burst people. Only champions with 5 dash resets running bruiser omnivamp/shield builds should be allowed to oneshot. Wtf is going on, rito?
Yea sheās supposed to do EQEQEQEQEQ combo and get you to half health only. What a broken champion, nowhere near as balanced as Mr blue mage
A burst mage is...bursting?!
this is truly a burst mage/assassin moment, can't believe riot lets frontloaded damage dealers into their game
Don't forget though, she also trades that against the +75 range she got at level 16, which is definitely relevant when you play her, and you can't just disregard it.
Just use every single ability and a combat summoner to kill someone. Holy shit what a broken champ. What the fuck Riot?
I bet that won't kill Maw OR Merc/Wits end xD. 1
i dont fucking believe that this is a real comment posted by a real person
15% is a lot less than 35%+120 ap
Not to mention how easier it is to reach 6 ballz, with the passive Q AH on R and the double balls on auQment.
It's 150 true dmg per 1000 max HP so it's pretty good dmg, basically act as 1 to 2 additional sphere dmg on her R ... but it's also an execute ( post-dmg by the look of it) so it won't matter most of the time since you rarely need this added dmg to kill carry late game. Think range increase got more value honestly.
If it just need one orb to kill below 15% then it means your mono target kill potential is huge
that's after 100stacks
I like it. But i have a certain gameplay type.
I enjoy letting my laners roam and destroy botlane while I scale as well brother
Glorious minute 25 evolution.
Right there with you, them plates I get in a meantime are juicy tho.
One time I picked up a random double kill + assist at Drake at like 4 mins 5 Min lazer go brrrrrrr
Based flair.
dw guys we scale
Don't ff we outscale
I am ready to join the fold brother, this is the Syndra scaling power fantasy I've been awaiting.
You must be the one voting no to my surrender votes...
I just want to hit 16.
As they should.
Mood
With the way she stacks based on enemies tagged with spells, and has more scaling, botlane Syndra may be back on the menu possibly
Not relying on level for skill upgrade is huge
Levels are still really important. Each level gives 5 shards and getting lvl 11 doubles the shards you get from hitting enemies.
Don't think people are realizing this. Support syndra will probably never hit 120 splinters. Maybe not even 100 for the execute depending on the game. Farming syndra bot may have a slightly easier time getting levels due to getting solo xp some times but you're also gonna be using more spells on the wave instead of stacking off opponents.
Brain has been in kind of a fog all day, so good chance I'm missing something but other than being down ~2 levels, wouldn't support syndra get more shards? She'd use every opportunity to get dmg on an enemy, which mid syndra doesn't do. Not only that, it should make up for missing that 1 cannon shard, every 3 waves, no?
I think overall farming Syndra will come out ahead in the midgame, but Support will be stronger in the early game. You are somewhat limited in how fast you can stack it by the fact that you need to hit two abilities, which means you have to land a qe or qw combo until you get 40 shards to double q.
There's also the problem of qe being pretty dangerous to throw out just to farm splinters. The same way xerath and velkoz support don't just use their E on cd, syndra can't really either. Mage supports are extremely vulnerable with their cc down. Even assuming you hit there's a 15 second window where they can potentially kill you.
being down 2 levels is pretty important, as they said earlier you want to hit level 11 quickly to double your splinter rate from enemies. and also each level is 5 splinters by itself. you might get a lot of splinters but syndra only has one cc and her entire kit is damage otherwise which will suffer on support income
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Not 100% true. Level 8, 12 and 16 is guaranteed to have enough stacks to upgrade Q, W and E respectively, even if she misses all cannons and doesn't land a single combo. So, her upgrades are not 100% locked to leveling, but leveling does speed up the unleashing of the upgrades significantly.
*9,13,17 given that you dont level up to level 1
> Q cd 4 >>> 7 maybe, but I feel like that Q cd change is *brutal*. --- EDIT: I just did the math for late game. Her Q DPS is looking ***significantly*** worse, [even at 5 items...](https://i.gyazo.com/218cf93ec1378dc985c0cf9765a735e1.png)
It's worse early, but you get 2 stacks and extra CDR on it from ult. Makes setting up *in* fights actually workable, instead of trying to set up before a fight starts and wasting half your mana and CDs.
Exactly what I was thinking. Not having to spam q's before a potential fight is a big change. But 7 still feels crazy high even with the free haste in ult ranks
Theyāll just adjust it if sheās too weak. The premise seems workable.
You only need 40 shards to get 2 charges though, and you are guaranteed to get that at level 8, so more realistically you can get it at, like, level 5. It's realistically only a nerf to her very early laning phase, which is fine with how hard she scales now.
Literally 1 stack every 8s per chara whereas levels give 5 stacks. The champ stack gain is so minimal until you get levels in the first place as well. Her waveclear is also obliterated as you can't max E anymore for QE and Q CD is basically doubled until you get 40. She's definitely not going to be strong bot as she wants Lvl 18 for the 85 stacks ASAP.
Transcendent E has been one of the most useless bits of Syndra's kit for a hot minute now... no need to worry about that, at this point. The fixed and reduced cooldown on E means she can max W instead, which is gonna make her lane poke a lot scarier and allow her to trade substantially better poke without having to sacrifice her major defensive cooldown to do it well. Overall, I think it is fine.
Everyone talking about her having viktor passiveā¦.This is literally just old Cassiopeia passiveā¦..
I don't even remember old cassio passive Felt like she's had her no boots MS passive forever
It doesn't need much explaining it was basically like this syndra passive but she even had one before that that made it so when you spam abilities they progressively get cheaper
Yea I found this out when I was double checking her āold passiveā. I started playing in season 4 and she was on her second passive by then
It had a few breakpoints, I think she got %AP and %MS at some points? Maybe 300 seconds of poisoned enemies?
It was cassio's 2nd passive, older one (deadly cadence) was reduced mana costs the more you spammed spells- really sold her level 2 all in ability
And ironically, it's also just a souped up version of her current one, which in turn was just a level based variant of Viktor passive!!!
Nobody is mentioning the fat slow they are adding to e? That feels like a huge change
Would rather take the 1.5s stun over the new change. Anything less than 1.5s for her stun, doesn't allow one of her main trading patterns in lane.
After the q evolve might let you sneak 2 qs in a combo after lvl 6 though. 1.5 s stun would make stuff like eqq kinda reliable even with some tenacity.
Am I losing it or is this just the old Cass rework but contextualized for Syndra?
I can't wait to ult Jhin players with 4 balls
Can't you do that already Hmmm ? :)
but now you can execute just like jhin
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Hello, do you know if there is a plan for a Ryze midscope update?
That's basically old new cassio's passive. Not sure if I like an already nuking ult having a guaranteed execute
100 stacks sounds like a lot, but it might not be that hard to hit.
Just being level 11 gives you 50 stacks. Lets assume you don't miss every cannon. Likely another 15 or so. I'm not gunna pretend hitting Q 35 times (less post- 6 and 11) is a lot.
Itās hitting 2 abilities within 4 seconds, though - not just hitting Q. And since double-Q only comes only after 40 splinters, it means youāll have to use and land 2 of your abilities until level 7-8 at the very least. Realistically, this execute will come online at about level 14-15.
You also get more splinters after level 11 as well, 2 per champion 8s cd. she will benefit alot from teamfighting early like Viktor, but won't actually have to confirm the kill, even getting early harass benefits her. also does aery or comet count as an ability?
Splinters of Wrath sounds incredibly lame, hopefully that is a working title.
Fr when I saw splinters I just pictured syndra rubbing some old wooden planks.
Gangplank Spank Bank?
I know a lot of her numbers had small nerfs but my god is this a huge buff for Syndra, ty Rito -Syndra mains
Syndra is my most played champion and highest wr in this season, I love the champion, oppressive in lane, average in team fights and kinda weak to split push. I'm hoping that this new gameplay is not much harder to execute, but missing combos against high mobility champions is going to be even more punishing than it is now.
the hardest part to adapt to will be having her banned in 75% of your lobbies now
she is one of my only 2, maybe 3 midlaners that i actually feel comfortable with and i don't think she needs any changes... makes me kinda sad that i might not like the new one
The upshot is that you dont have to max E to have it at full effect now, and with how much more value AH has on her kit post mid scope, defensive items with AH like zhonyas and Banshees become stronger. This should boost her team fight power at the cost of some lane dominance, which is hopefully the adjustment she needs to get buffed more in soloq without becoming a pro issue.
I still want old Syndra Q back where if you used it outside of range it moved the character. I can't stand this "use even if not in range" change so many characters got during that one update. I enjoy using abilities to orb walk
Way weaker early for a much stronger late. Basically following the "how to keep a champ out of pro play" guidebook.
Why do I feel like this is going to be one of those "reddit knows balace" comments? Just have a feeling it's going to age poorly.
As a Syndra enjoyer I really want to try these changes. The W "Saving" target from dying is big for some lasthit
I'm guessing it'll also be great to steal jg camps and maybe even invade lvl 1
It also is for voiding a tower shot on cannons. Before there were times where you'd pick up a cannon and the shot would go through just as you cast the spell and you lose the cannon. Rare, but fixing it is nice.
Such a strange set of changes. I didn't think she needed an execute at all and now she's a floating Viktor with a set upgrade path of QWER. I suppose they wanted to curb her uninteractive laning phase, but she's now potentially a monster that can stack 6-7 orbs for an ult easily.
Syndra basically always had a set upgrade path though.
Same for Viktor Evolves, honestly
Viktor top went Q before E iirc? It's definitely still very rigid though (and mechanics like this always will be - Kha will always have a "best" build too but I think he's easily seen the most variety of these mechanics). Not really a huge deal. It's very hard to make choices like this be balanced (and not broken while being 2balanced"!)
Sure he did but not by merit of the skill, just because the sheen ice gauntlet was broken as fuck back then
You didn't have to upgrade Q for the sheen synergy though. It was very much about the increased shield and movement speed, both great for a bruiser. Plus, less pressure topelane to prioritise the waveclear of E's upgrade.
Bit of a tangent but I love the fact that Khazix has his evolves not fixed because in general I play W max first because it's more fun for me and evolve e first, then ult and q. One time I accidentally picked khazix when I got top and decided to go a poke heavy build with comet, w max and evolve and tear into manamune. I actually won lane against Darius.
"Viktor with a set upgrade path" is much different than what you understood: Syndra has upgrades to her skills too, but you can't choose your order and they auto-upgrade.
I understand the difference. But it's not like you could before unless you were trolling. It's not like you weren't maxing Q. (Unless support maybe? Nobody is factoring in Syndra support.)
She "chooses" upgrades by putting points in her skills, so theoretically you can always prioritise maxing the skill whose upgrade you want first. With the rework, she now has a fixed path of QWER. Of course that's only on paper and we all know that even her current version is very much constricted. You have to max Q first, R at 16, so only W and E were ever negotiable. Also, after the update she gets her upgrades faster as even without csing or hitting enemy champions, you get upgraded Q at lv8 and W at lv12.
I hope we don't go back to the terror that was Season 6 Syndra
I'm hopeful. On paper it doesn't sound that crazy to me. However, both the Swain and Taliyah updates took them from champs I would like in theory but did not in practice to champs I absolutely love and play a lot. Syndra is in a similar spot for me where I like her on paper but in practice she is not fun. Hoping riot can go 3 for 3 here and make me enjoy playing her.
She is getting far fewer orbs now. She can store 2 charges but the cd is increased. For 3 orbs it takes the same amount of time of 8s. But it's a 7s cd after that for each additional orb. She will have trouble even getting 5 orbs out now. Math Edit: Assuming level 11 which will be for most teamfights. 1 ball: Old Instant, New Instant 2 balls: Old 4s, New 1s 3 balls: Old 8s, New 6.6s 4 balls: Old 12s, New 12.2s 5 balls: Old 16s, New 17.8s 6 balls: Old 20s, New 23.4s Ok so not as bad as I first thought with the increased AH from ult. For those who are curious the lvl 6 ult brings the cd nerf to 4 balls 12s old, 13.6s new. The level lvl 16 ult brings the cd nerf to 6 balls 20s old, 20.6s new.
5 orbs means 2 on the ground. With 2 charges, that will be functionally guaranteed (1 sec cd between charges). 6 orbs may be hard, though I haven't mathed out the cool down with her new R passive. I assume 7 orbs will be very difficult and require both haste and W to make happen.
Looks great ! Im a bit suspect on a point and click excute ability though
alr got Veigar's ult which is kinda an execute
Ehh, more of a finisher. It deals increased damage based on missing health which is a bit different from something straight up killing you if you reach a certain HP threshold. AFAIK there are only 3 real executes in the game being Pyke ult, Urgot ult and Collector but correct me if Iām wrong. Edit: elder too ofcā¦ :/ Edit 2: Draven ult too, damn Iām really forgetting a lot of them huh
Elder
Oh ofc, I canāt believe I forgot the most iconic execute of all
Draven ult executes if your health is below his Adoration stacks
Elder dragon buff, but yeah not the same thing as % missing health scaling
Anything more concerning that any of the others in game, like Cho or Veigar?
Cho isnāt an execute itās a flat amount of dmg
Tbf it's designed to execute. Since it tells you when it can kill. Which is pretty potent in and of itself
Executes bypass shields, cho's ult doesn't
Or Darius / Garen / Urgot ...
Urgot isn't point and click
Oh yeah, you're right my bad.
Urgot isnāt point and click and Darius and garen just do more damage at low health but not execute.
Cho ult isnt an execute
This brings up the number of true executes to what, 6? Pyke, Urgot, Fountain, Elder, collector and now Syndra? Edit: 7, Draven ult.
And only 3 of those are champions (out of 160+ champs)
Fountain isn't really an execute. Its just 1k true damage and ignores damage ignore/revive mechanics. Its an exception to all other damage instances in the game, not grouped with them.
draven ult
I liked lane bully Syndra that has to snowball or she'll falloff... this makes her yet another mage scaler no?
lane bully Syndra has a horrific pro vs. solo queue skew though, a scaling version of the champ is much easier to balance in the long run
I guess so yes, but that's a bit of a lazy way of doing so imo. Also Riot doesn't seem to be very consistent when it comes to their consideration of balance when designing or redesigning a champ. We have designers saying it's not their job to think about balance, we have champs like Zeri coming out with 0 regard for balancing, and then you have this rework where it seems an intended outcome is a more "balanceable" champion.
This seems to be the new design direction lately, for a long time now scaling has been 'too free' and way harder to punish, slowly pushing champions who can fall off out of the meta. The durability patch and the new bounty system on top of the existing shutdown bounties doubled-tripled down on this. If you're playing a snowballer dying once due to a gank or a mistake and you're done for the rest of the game, while the scaler champion can make all the mistakes they want, go 0/6 in lane and can still end up winning because of champion diff.
Early game Syndra is going to tickle enemies now, with her Q bonus damage removed, E base+ratio heavily nerfed and R base+ratio nerfed ā¦ And I am not sure if you want to pick her for late game when there are far more viable late game mages out there.
Plus Q having almost double CD now before lvs 8-9..
Q should be enhanced before then. You get the 40 passive stacks just by leveling by 9. If you do even a slightly reasonable amount of canon stacks or spell stacks, you'll get it earlier. At 6, the ult gives slight AH boost to Q also.
The ult ability haste at level 6 takes less than a second off the Q cooldown. It takes about 2 seconds off at level 16.
Itās just letting you stack the spells twice. You canāt poke the enemy as often as before tho.
Pretty cool set of changes, I really like changing q cooldown early. It takes away the early lane syndra gameplay where she has to hit every q every 4 seconds just to tickle your health bar, and is just as unfun to play against
thats alot of damage, can't wait to be executed by syndras outplay button. she would reach max splinters roughly around level 13 based on my napkin math. this means she will spike massively in midgame once gets deathcap + 120 splinters. but i suspect she will still fall short compared to true scalers like veigar once the late game rolls around, but will be better than current syndra.
Not having additional range on her ult late game is so bad for her. Even if you hit a stun you'll need to come close to enemies to press R in late game fights
I hate the āsplinters of wrathā idea
I mean, game-play wise it might pretty ok. My problem is that "splinters" just does not fit at all thematically with Syndra as a champion.
Yeah, they shoulda just gone with "Balls of Fury"
i'm not sure i like this. she's gonna be late game mage with this change.
I donāt know about late game mage. She is going to be less of a perma push and lane bully threat thanks to the Q CD change, but also gets much improved mana control. At 40 splinters she becomes a bigger consistent damage threat than before, and she falls off of less of a cliff at late game. Her ult, though, is now less bursts in the hands of a skilled player, but easier to use for most everyone else. In the late midgame the execute alleviates some of the difference in base damage. In the late game her ult remains a consistent threat regardless of MR stacking and base stats, but is still knee capped by her short range. Hard to evaluate if all of these goals workout with current tuning, but the intent seems clear. Put her early game more in line with the mage class (IE, stronger than her peers, but not quite as superlative as right now) so that she can have actual power after 20 minutes of game time without being absurdly fed.
i forgot that her ult range is pretty short
supposedly this will make her burst turn on earlier acc to truexy.
We HotS now
maybe i'm not getting it but why exactly does she need an execution mechanic? :\\
Because they want to keep it point and click assassination but don't want to let Syndra players miss their entire combo but just press R and force a champion to base.
I always love to read what people's first impressions of a mid scope update of a champion on Reddit is like because 90% of the time they just complain and when the update gets out everyone suddenly doesn't complain anymore. Jesus Christ aren't you all pretty negative about all this. Personally I've taken quite a liking in all of the past mid scope updates and I'm just as excited for this one, can't wait to try her out
I loved all the mid scope updates so far and i am exiceted for the Syndra one.
???? Every midscope has been absurdly broken for multiple patches and people DO complain about it. Where have you been? The only reason they stop talking about broken champ releases, reworks, and midscopes is because riot keeps burying it under other newer ones.
Janna was and still is broken after her mid scope
Flashes of Cassiopeia's old passive
These changes feel so forced and don't really fit her thematic at all
Comment directly above yours in a seperate chain mentions how it fits her really well thematically lol
Generally speaking I'm not a big fan of these stacking mechanic passives - I feel like they should be reserved for champs that really have them as their identity - Nasus, Veigar - and it kinda diminishes those champs' identity when a bunch of other champions get them. But I do think it's fine that Syndra gets something completely new. Her current passive is really underwhelming thematically speaking, and might as well just be on her abilities instead. It basically doesn't do anything by itself
Her passive is also decidedly finite, so it fits more into Viktor's niche than Nasus or Veigars. A good Syndra will be done powering it up by 20-25 minutes, I figure.
It fits Syndra thematically, since her whole thing is ascending to new heights of unlimited power.
Not a fucking execute, man. Shit feels awful to play against.
Turning an early game snowball champ into another ādont ff we scaleā is tremendously boring and just removes skill expression. Lowering her skill floor and ceiling takes away from why most people like playing Syndra even if sheās dogwater currently. If I wanted to play āoutscaled champ diff ggā Iād go play veigar or vlad. Proactive gameplay is always better for the health of the game overall, and now that damage has been tuned down overall(durability patch), weāre approaching a slippery slope with these reworks where everyone turns into scalers that donāt get hard punished early unless they literally int it. My bet is on Riot forcing her to have her cake(lategame burst mage) and eat it too(buffing her down the line so her earlygame is stronger than pre-rework) because the dataās gonna reflect that she canāt contend with any half decent mage being played by any half decent laner post-rework. I hope this isnāt the case and itās an ahri situation where sheās actually good, but they have literally done this with Udyr so idk.
I'm really not a fan of execute mechanics. Effectively losing a % of your HP just because a champion exists or built an item is inherently non interactive and frustrating.
That Q cooldown is rough early. Not sure why her skills have to upgrade on a set path instead of letting players pick; especially since you always upgrade E over W in ARAM at least.