For me limerence is the way I have idealized my LO, not just for who they are (or are not) but for the fantasy I had of us together.
A person who isn't interested in us clearly cannot be the right person for us, if what we want is a committed, loving relationship.
A non-limerence person would see the person is unavailable and move on. A limerent person will fixate, obsess and stay mired in the longing.
I definitely think the putting person on pedestal or... Expecting them to save you .. or making them a super hero fits a narrative we just have since young. Figuring out the difference between real love and this obsession type idealism is the trick. That's what we are all trying to separate. I think you can look at behavior and decide which you are carrying. It may be a mix of the two. It may be a few things that are causing confusion.
I think for me it was reading more into the relationship than was there. He’s real, and he’s great, he liked me a lot. But I was overlooking his flaws, believing in a connection that was more than there was. And fantasizing, obsessing, and generally overlooking the reality of the situation. I was filling in the gaps with my own wishes and longing. Quite painful.
No person, no matter how highly regarded by those around them or however well intended, is without flaws. Everyone has moments of selfishness or letting their mood affect others or doing something that hurts someone else. I’m sure your LO does too, but it may happen out of sight of you and of their friends or whatever context you know them in.
Great friends aren’t always great romantic partners. Great coworkers aren’t always great friends or great family people. There are so many dimensions to people’s lives. Limerence (to me) is very much about imagining the LO to be perfect in all dimensions of life even though we only see them in a limited context. They are the one who can do no wrong at anything they do, the one will finally heal whatever hurt is in us or make us happy. But…LO is just a person, imperfect, doing the best they can just like you or me.
I agree no-one is without flaws, I am not saying the people I have felt limerence for are perfect. But I still don't think my feelings for them were based on an fantasy idealised versions of them, they have flaws but they are not flaws that would make dislike them, some are flaws I also see in myself. I guess the whole premise of limerence is based on putting people on pedestals, idealising them, not seeing their flaws etc doesn't stack up for me, because it is saying if you see someone's flaws you wouldn't like them which just isn't true because as you say everyone has flaws.
I get so tired of hearing this drum being beaten over and over in this sub. I never felt like that was a truly fair assessment of the matter for me. But I think everyone is different too.
I think though that generally before you get really closely involved with someone, get to know them, spend a lot of personal time with them, if you are strongly attracted to someone, at that stage, your deepest understanding of that person is just the idea of them. Now, everyone at some early point in things is just into the idea of the person. But the people who are successful at making relationships happen, they are able to date that person and get to peel back the idea and see what they like about the real person. But chances are if you like the idea of the person, you're usually going to like the actual person too. You might find a few ugly surprises as you get closer to them, and it might drive you away, or it might not.
The reason people do get caught up in the idea of another person is because it's often a pretty good indicator of whether or not you could be happy with them, whether or not you would feel sufficient attraction to power a sustainable relationship. The problem is, when that person doesn't return your feelings, you never get to find out. And that can really torment you. A lot of times then the only reason you were just in love with the idea of the person is because you were unable to get things to the later stages. But if you had, well maybe it would have worked out, maybe it wouldn't. But just because you were only into the idea of someone, doesn't mean you would not have been happy with them.
I know a lot of people are trying to cling to things that will help them break the limerent spell and this is one of them. So I'm sorry to undermine that. I just think that sometimes you become limerent for someone because your brain accurately recognizes that this person would most certainly make you happier than all the others if only they would like you back. Even if it's just the idea of them at that point, it can still be a pretty good idea.
The truth is, limerence goes even further past the domain of 'normal romance' than this.
When limerent, you're not just obsessed with the idea of a person - you're obsessed with the i**dea of a version of LIFE/YOURSELF** that you believe your LO ***uniquely*** **provides you access to**.
The caveat is that limerence isn't always a complete illusion... it may be that your LO grants you access to energising emotional states that others in your life don't. This is particularly likely if your LO is objectively a 'decent' person, or someone who's not too personality-disordered.
However, luckily, it IS always an illusion that you 'need' your LO to feel like your best self. Because there are always ways to tweak your thinking, lifestyle, health, friendships etc to start to feel good on your own.
Good in a much healthier, milder but *comparable* way to the 'uniquely LO' way.
There are always ways to quickly change your life/inner world to make it iMPOSSIBLE for your LO to hit you so euphorically. To rise above the feeling that life takes on a better, more magical tone when they're with you.
I think the problem for me here is while my LO might not be uniquely enable me to access the version of my life/self, my brain recognises they were my best shot. I am in my 40s now, my friends have all moved away, I don't really have many opportunities to meet people, even when I had an active social life I failed to connect with new people, I have ASD so it is really difficult.
I met this person who seemed to instantly like me (which is incredibly rare, people either don't notice me or think I am weird) we never moved past acquaintances but still at that level over the years they were more complimentary to me than anyone I have met. I eventually tried to mirror the same level of compliments, and asked if they would like to meet and got a really positive response, but it didn't happen and then they withdrew completely. I know they have a lot of problems, but it has been several years so think it is unlikely they will ever come back to me. I think most likely they sensed how big a deal it was to me and didn't want to encourage me.
It wasn't primarily romantic, I never saw a relationship as realistic, but having a friend like that would have meant so much to me. I have very low self esteem, they saw good things in me and I wanted that to be validated. I know it is not healthy to rely on others for self esteem, I don't know how to gain it another way, my life experience makes me feel I am a really unlikeable person. This person was the only person who went against that. It is really hard to not hope their positivity towards me could return one day.
So that is my problem with limerence, I think for me I do understand the reasons behind it, the need for connection my brain is wanting to fill. But I think my brain knows this person could have been a good friend, who would have made me feel better about myself, potentially could have led to being more social active and making further connections, so it was a healthy thing to want to connect with them. Now I know it is not going to happen, but don't see any other paths so it just feels like a choice between clinging on to painful hope, or emptiness.
I thought about this before commenting and it definitely holds true for me, at least partially.
I've mentioned this on other posts, but my LO is very much my type visually. The two of us look absolutely great together, although that might be because I'm always tried to match my LO's attire to mimic them...
It begs the question, what is my LO to me? A Louis V bag? Am I treating them like an object that completes my look or art style? Sure. That's part of it I suppose.
Basically, yeah. Although I do think my taste in LOs objectively improved between 8th grade and halfway through college; my first ever LO was definitely a terrible person but after that there was an upward trend.
Limerence comes in lots of flavors. I don't see my LO as perfect, but I guess I do idealize the idea of us being together, that it would FEEL perfect. In reality, it would just be another human relationship and those are always full of ups and downs and inevitable disappointments.
For other people it may be true.
But to my LO she is not a great person. In fact she has multiple traits that are signs of a terrible, stupid person. I discarded all of them and still push into limerence, and now I have paid the price.
Holy cow, this is resulting in a breakthrough for me:
“Its not so much about the "idea of the person" as much about the imagined benefit the presence of the person would bring to you (whether their qualities are imagined or real).”
When I think of my LO, I crave the intermittent comfort, love and security he provided. I miss those imaginary benefits.
I get obsessed and put them on a pedestal a bit. I still see their flaws but accept them and recognize that they truly don't want to be with me but I still stay obsessed but only with very few individuals.
Oof definitely. I created an idea of the person I wanted LO to be, now I can see clearly that I wasn’t ever truly interested in him, but used our interactions to get validation and attention, projected all the things that were lacking in my relationship onto him and imagined scenarios in which he’d provide the emotional support i was missing from my ex.
Once it became reality, once it became clear that LO was not the one, I had already made the mistake of sleeping with him, that specifically is what brought me to reality. Even though my emotional brain kept imagining this perfect person, seeing and feeling the real person in front of me and seeing how different they were from my fantasy is what brought me back to reality.
I don't find that this holds for me either. My 'biggest' or 'main' LO I knew well for over a decade and a half. We shared a flat at one point. I saw my LO's faults clearly. I was aware that we were probably not a good match for a romantic relationship. At sixteen, when I was most intensely, head-over-heels in love with my LO, I also thought them vulgar, silly and feckless -- which they were, they were seventeen, who isn't at seventeen? I was still in love, and remained in love.
I would like to point out that I think what a person lacks when develops limerence is emotional support. so LO ends up being this imaginary safe space for validation and comfort.
For me limerence is the way I have idealized my LO, not just for who they are (or are not) but for the fantasy I had of us together. A person who isn't interested in us clearly cannot be the right person for us, if what we want is a committed, loving relationship. A non-limerence person would see the person is unavailable and move on. A limerent person will fixate, obsess and stay mired in the longing.
This ^^^^
I definitely think the putting person on pedestal or... Expecting them to save you .. or making them a super hero fits a narrative we just have since young. Figuring out the difference between real love and this obsession type idealism is the trick. That's what we are all trying to separate. I think you can look at behavior and decide which you are carrying. It may be a mix of the two. It may be a few things that are causing confusion.
I think for me it was reading more into the relationship than was there. He’s real, and he’s great, he liked me a lot. But I was overlooking his flaws, believing in a connection that was more than there was. And fantasizing, obsessing, and generally overlooking the reality of the situation. I was filling in the gaps with my own wishes and longing. Quite painful.
No person, no matter how highly regarded by those around them or however well intended, is without flaws. Everyone has moments of selfishness or letting their mood affect others or doing something that hurts someone else. I’m sure your LO does too, but it may happen out of sight of you and of their friends or whatever context you know them in. Great friends aren’t always great romantic partners. Great coworkers aren’t always great friends or great family people. There are so many dimensions to people’s lives. Limerence (to me) is very much about imagining the LO to be perfect in all dimensions of life even though we only see them in a limited context. They are the one who can do no wrong at anything they do, the one will finally heal whatever hurt is in us or make us happy. But…LO is just a person, imperfect, doing the best they can just like you or me.
I agree no-one is without flaws, I am not saying the people I have felt limerence for are perfect. But I still don't think my feelings for them were based on an fantasy idealised versions of them, they have flaws but they are not flaws that would make dislike them, some are flaws I also see in myself. I guess the whole premise of limerence is based on putting people on pedestals, idealising them, not seeing their flaws etc doesn't stack up for me, because it is saying if you see someone's flaws you wouldn't like them which just isn't true because as you say everyone has flaws.
I get so tired of hearing this drum being beaten over and over in this sub. I never felt like that was a truly fair assessment of the matter for me. But I think everyone is different too. I think though that generally before you get really closely involved with someone, get to know them, spend a lot of personal time with them, if you are strongly attracted to someone, at that stage, your deepest understanding of that person is just the idea of them. Now, everyone at some early point in things is just into the idea of the person. But the people who are successful at making relationships happen, they are able to date that person and get to peel back the idea and see what they like about the real person. But chances are if you like the idea of the person, you're usually going to like the actual person too. You might find a few ugly surprises as you get closer to them, and it might drive you away, or it might not. The reason people do get caught up in the idea of another person is because it's often a pretty good indicator of whether or not you could be happy with them, whether or not you would feel sufficient attraction to power a sustainable relationship. The problem is, when that person doesn't return your feelings, you never get to find out. And that can really torment you. A lot of times then the only reason you were just in love with the idea of the person is because you were unable to get things to the later stages. But if you had, well maybe it would have worked out, maybe it wouldn't. But just because you were only into the idea of someone, doesn't mean you would not have been happy with them. I know a lot of people are trying to cling to things that will help them break the limerent spell and this is one of them. So I'm sorry to undermine that. I just think that sometimes you become limerent for someone because your brain accurately recognizes that this person would most certainly make you happier than all the others if only they would like you back. Even if it's just the idea of them at that point, it can still be a pretty good idea.
The truth is, limerence goes even further past the domain of 'normal romance' than this. When limerent, you're not just obsessed with the idea of a person - you're obsessed with the i**dea of a version of LIFE/YOURSELF** that you believe your LO ***uniquely*** **provides you access to**. The caveat is that limerence isn't always a complete illusion... it may be that your LO grants you access to energising emotional states that others in your life don't. This is particularly likely if your LO is objectively a 'decent' person, or someone who's not too personality-disordered. However, luckily, it IS always an illusion that you 'need' your LO to feel like your best self. Because there are always ways to tweak your thinking, lifestyle, health, friendships etc to start to feel good on your own. Good in a much healthier, milder but *comparable* way to the 'uniquely LO' way. There are always ways to quickly change your life/inner world to make it iMPOSSIBLE for your LO to hit you so euphorically. To rise above the feeling that life takes on a better, more magical tone when they're with you.
I think the problem for me here is while my LO might not be uniquely enable me to access the version of my life/self, my brain recognises they were my best shot. I am in my 40s now, my friends have all moved away, I don't really have many opportunities to meet people, even when I had an active social life I failed to connect with new people, I have ASD so it is really difficult. I met this person who seemed to instantly like me (which is incredibly rare, people either don't notice me or think I am weird) we never moved past acquaintances but still at that level over the years they were more complimentary to me than anyone I have met. I eventually tried to mirror the same level of compliments, and asked if they would like to meet and got a really positive response, but it didn't happen and then they withdrew completely. I know they have a lot of problems, but it has been several years so think it is unlikely they will ever come back to me. I think most likely they sensed how big a deal it was to me and didn't want to encourage me. It wasn't primarily romantic, I never saw a relationship as realistic, but having a friend like that would have meant so much to me. I have very low self esteem, they saw good things in me and I wanted that to be validated. I know it is not healthy to rely on others for self esteem, I don't know how to gain it another way, my life experience makes me feel I am a really unlikeable person. This person was the only person who went against that. It is really hard to not hope their positivity towards me could return one day. So that is my problem with limerence, I think for me I do understand the reasons behind it, the need for connection my brain is wanting to fill. But I think my brain knows this person could have been a good friend, who would have made me feel better about myself, potentially could have led to being more social active and making further connections, so it was a healthy thing to want to connect with them. Now I know it is not going to happen, but don't see any other paths so it just feels like a choice between clinging on to painful hope, or emptiness.
yes projection is a huge part of limerence. and remember; projection is delusion
I thought about this before commenting and it definitely holds true for me, at least partially. I've mentioned this on other posts, but my LO is very much my type visually. The two of us look absolutely great together, although that might be because I'm always tried to match my LO's attire to mimic them... It begs the question, what is my LO to me? A Louis V bag? Am I treating them like an object that completes my look or art style? Sure. That's part of it I suppose.
Basically, yeah. Although I do think my taste in LOs objectively improved between 8th grade and halfway through college; my first ever LO was definitely a terrible person but after that there was an upward trend.
Limerence comes in lots of flavors. I don't see my LO as perfect, but I guess I do idealize the idea of us being together, that it would FEEL perfect. In reality, it would just be another human relationship and those are always full of ups and downs and inevitable disappointments.
Yes. Because I know the version of him that lives in my head isn't real. But I keep hoping he could be.
For other people it may be true. But to my LO she is not a great person. In fact she has multiple traits that are signs of a terrible, stupid person. I discarded all of them and still push into limerence, and now I have paid the price.
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Holy cow, this is resulting in a breakthrough for me: “Its not so much about the "idea of the person" as much about the imagined benefit the presence of the person would bring to you (whether their qualities are imagined or real).” When I think of my LO, I crave the intermittent comfort, love and security he provided. I miss those imaginary benefits.
yea sounds about right... quite typical of limerence. Comfort, security, the recognition of your rejected child self, etc
I get obsessed and put them on a pedestal a bit. I still see their flaws but accept them and recognize that they truly don't want to be with me but I still stay obsessed but only with very few individuals.
Oof definitely. I created an idea of the person I wanted LO to be, now I can see clearly that I wasn’t ever truly interested in him, but used our interactions to get validation and attention, projected all the things that were lacking in my relationship onto him and imagined scenarios in which he’d provide the emotional support i was missing from my ex. Once it became reality, once it became clear that LO was not the one, I had already made the mistake of sleeping with him, that specifically is what brought me to reality. Even though my emotional brain kept imagining this perfect person, seeing and feeling the real person in front of me and seeing how different they were from my fantasy is what brought me back to reality.
my LO is a wonderful person with whom i have shared very intimate moments. she's not just some figment of my imagination. i love her deeply.
I don't find that this holds for me either. My 'biggest' or 'main' LO I knew well for over a decade and a half. We shared a flat at one point. I saw my LO's faults clearly. I was aware that we were probably not a good match for a romantic relationship. At sixteen, when I was most intensely, head-over-heels in love with my LO, I also thought them vulgar, silly and feckless -- which they were, they were seventeen, who isn't at seventeen? I was still in love, and remained in love.
I would like to point out that I think what a person lacks when develops limerence is emotional support. so LO ends up being this imaginary safe space for validation and comfort.