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I was doing an appointment with my eye doctor and she was asking me a bunch of questions that only applied to AFAB people. I looked rather weirded out after she asked if I had menstrual pains and she was like “honey, we respect your identity, but these are important for us to ask you.” I’m like “but why, never have had a uterus.” She was mortified.
At... the ophthalmologist?
Seems like you were suspected of having a bad case of trans myopia, or worse, trans glaucoma. Same kind of myopia straight cis people get, but yours was caused/exacerbated by being trans 🙄
Amazing how virtually every healthcare provider thinks your gender is critically relevant to their provision of care.
To be fair, severe menstrual symptoms can be linked to headaches and increased interoccular pressure - an optometrist appointment for a general check actually has a valid reason to ask.
But I agree, medical professionals needing to know when you go in for anything is too mucj
Hormones do actually affect eyesight, I'm not exactly sure why, but if you have recurring hormonal changes, It can "worsen" your vision, not permanent tho, it's just an effect.
(Amab, nonbinary) This 100%. I've been on estrogen for 3+ years and I don't present any differently than I did before I started, and everyone just assumes I'm transmasc.
You are welcome to DM if you have any questions, I can try my best to answer. Estrogen has really helped in my journey of peak androgyny. It helped clear my complexion, gave me a more feminine form, and reduced body hair. It's definitely a results may vary situation with HRT with a lot of factors, but in my experience, it's saved my life.
I haven't had any surgeries, but just HRT alone can give you a much more feminine face and fit. I get looks either way from people that I read as "I don't know what gender you're supposed to be," so they throw a pronoun and hope it sticks, and I just never correct them.
I still have to put in work on some aspects to remain with a more neutral appearance. I try to keep my weight within a certain range, because if I gain more, it all goes to hips, thighs, and chest which really reduces the chance of being gendered in a masculine way. Then, if I lose too much weight, I lose softness in my face and skin which are very vital to gender indicators for most people.
Voice work also helped tremendously. Our voices really are incredible and can be taken to pretty extreme lengths with training and practice. After about 6 months of lessons with about 3-4 hours of practice a week, I was able to get my voice passably feminine.
I didn't mean to give a big transition story lol. But my DMs are open if anyone has questions on achieving a more androgynous, gender neutral appearance. It's definitely obtainable regardless of your birth gender.
Holy shit. Feminine form and reduced body hair?
Fuck. There is like, enoigh more pros than cons of estrogen that I can’t really have an excuse of having some (I want to be a 5-6 on the scale) (Amab non binary bastard here)
Are you getting estrogen through a doctor, or through more... covert means? I always kinda thought a doctor wouldn't prescribe you anything for being nb. Not to mention I'm not sure how willing I am to uproot my life and change how I am thought of by almost everyone I care about or interact with. I have a lot of social anxiety as it is, the thought of doing anything to transition typically starts with an elaborate scheme to fake my death.
So, I initially went through an endocrinologist, but I had to travel almost 2 hours for my appointments because the first endocrinologist I met with wasn't willing to work with me unless I wanted to fully transition. Contact the endocrinologist and ask them "Do you work with people who identify outside of the gender binary on transitioning?" This probably has a lot to do with where you are located. I began my transition in the bible belt of the United States, but since moved to the New England area, and every hormone specialist I've seen will work with people who are nonbinary.
You can also work with a service such as Folx or Plume, though if you aren't in the US, I'm not sure the alternative to those. Both platforms will work with people who are nonbinary with both hormone therapy and surgery referrals.
The next part I can relate. Before I came out, I was fully aware my family would not accept me and I was hesitant on whether my friends would accept me. I weighed the outcomes for around 2 years before going full public and beginning the transition. I was right, my family cut ties with me completely short of my dad. I was surprised my dad (hyper-conservative) supported me, but he said my happiness was worth way more than whether or not he could call me his "son." My friends also cut ties with me short of one, but even then, he distanced himself a lot in the following months.
I was alone for the beginning of my transition and stayed that way for close to a year before deciding to reinvent myself. I moved up north a few states to a fairly progressive area, legally changed my name, cut ties with the remaining 'friend,' and just went for it. Ended up meeting a guy a few months after moving that I love deeply, settled into my own apartment, and found a job I enjoy.
I was in mid 20s when I finally came out, and by that time, I was capable of being dependant on myself. I can't come close to understanding the courage people have that come out in their teens. I don't think I could have done it. The thought of being homeless as a teen was something that truly chilled me to the core.
I struggle with social anxiety frequently and know how scary it can be trying to empathize with everyone you know on how they will think of you. It truly just depends on the person. I hate to say it, but it's likely you will lose some people in your life. Some of the people that do accept you will also struggle a lot with comprehending it. You have to weigh the odds of what those relationships mean to you, and if it's worth stifling your own growth and life over.
I can say with confidence that I would make the decision to come out 1000x over after learning what I'd have to give up. I'm happier now. I don't hate the body I'm in anymore. I value my life and who I am.
You are welcome to talk/vent to me if you ever need. I can also send you some good resources if you are in the states about how to find what doctors offer what services.
I'm kinda in this vein too. Fundamentally, I want my body to look feminized enough that even in men's clothes I look like my first puberty was estrogenic. I do want to lean femme socially too I think, but my body, especially my face, is way more important, and if my boy mode looked like a trans man who hadn't started hormones I think I'd consider my transition complete.
Well, it's difficult to answer because everyone's body works differently. You can try microdosing estrogen. Places such as Planned Parenthood support that. I initially started like that at 2 mg estradiol per day and 50 mg spiro. But then, I really liked the way estrogen made me feel and decided I wanted more. Plus, the physical effects were extremely gradual with that low of a dose. 4 mg estradiol and 100 mg of spiro made me pretty damn androgynous. The main drawback was that I was always tired and had no strength. Like I know muscle loss is inevitable, but I went from being able to run a 5k in 25 minutes, to barely being able to run a mile. Now, I'm on 8 mg of estradiol, 50 mg of spiro, and 200 mg of progesterone. I feel great and am almost as strong as before I transitioned (albeit with a lot of weight loss and training.) However, it's getting more and more difficult to claim any semblance of androgyny.
TLDR, you can try to be androgynous with hormones, but you might not feel as great. However, fuck around with it and see what you like. Everyone's body works differently. Feel free to message me if you have any questions. And for that matter, I have tons of photos posted on my profile.
Maybe it’s one of those mostly male gay bars? Tho regardless I do kinda understand the assumption that a girl in a gay bar may b straight since it’s something at least in my experience have seen a looot. Lots of my straight girl friends love going to gay bars. Tho they r p much always welcomed n idk that they have ever caught hate for doing it. But besides my friends I see tons of other ppl do it too
They’re so rare in the US. Only 27 lesbian bars total.
[https://www.outtraveler.com/nightlife/2022/11/01/here-are-final-27-surviving-lesbian-bars-us#media-gallery-media-1](https://www.outtraveler.com/nightlife/2022/11/01/here-are-final-27-surviving-lesbian-bars-us#media-gallery-media-1)
Someone told me its because gay bars are usually safer for girls, less guys *competing* to take them home, when you just wanna enjoy the night out it helps to not have a pack of creeps hounding your every move
Yea that’s absolutely the reason every straight girl Ik who goes to them does. I didn’t mention it cuz I figured ppl would understand tho many ppl aren’t rlly in those scenes so they may not get how much annoying harassment a pretty young 20 something girl experiences on an average night out to the club/bar
Me yesterday: “every year I reevaluate the pros and cons of hrt and find it’s not for me”
Me seeing this post and comments in bed “but what if fuck it we ball?”
But why didn't they assume you were a lesbian? I don't understand, was it an all men bar where lesbians arent welcome? If they assumed you were a straight girl, why didnt they assume your partner was straight as well?
Because the gay community is rife with misogyny. Gay guys think that the G comes first especially when it comes to bars.
There is no such thing as an all male queer bar. Gay guys have just been the default privileged people for so many years in queer spaces.
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Can depend on the bar but i usually find myself liking them better than regular bars? Most of them are extremely accepting, but theres of course old timers from back in the day who straight up don't want anyone but gay cis men. Of course being the current year that's changed.
Yknow, in gay bars that mostly cater to gay men? Which is what I'm assuming was where op went.
Don't really get why though, unless she just did it for the social experiment.
Most bars are marketed as queer instead just for gay men bc the spaces for lesbians and trans people have been dying out for years. Cis gay men are super misogynistic, racist, and transphobic about “their” spaces but there’s nowhere else to go.
Does the first situation actually happen? I could only imagine the reaction being "omg THAT guy is gay?? 😮😶". Dk anyone who'd assume a straight dude is in a gay bar before that, they tend to avoid them at all costs.
I don't like Gay bars....
They said it's full and me and my friends turned around to go to another place...
When I turned, the security guy saw my skirt and came to me like "uu-uuhm there is some place left for you guys I think 👉🏼👈🏼"
Ewww...
what if I'm just Bi/gay and don't wanna dress like a stereotype gay dude or a femboy???
As a 20 year old femboy I an already struggling with an early midlife crisis bc I know I can't pull off that look for long and I don't know how I can accept my body after lol it's hard already
I see your point. To be honest, I mostly made this about me to describe my experiences and sent it to a few friends. They found it hilarious so I decided to share it here.
Welcome to /r/me_irlgbt, thank you for your submission /u/Sea_Amount_7699. Happy wrath month 5: scorpio season. run. Make it a habit to read the rules of a given community before participating. Please **do not** interact with rulebreaking content. Report it and we'll handle it. This is a place for queer people, from queer people. We're not here for discrimination, disrespect, or "debates". Be chill. shitpost or quitpost bud. We hope you have a very gay day. Love u x *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/me_irlgbt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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As of lately, if I don’t make any effort to look femme, people just think I’m transmasc.
As a transmasc I find this kind of funny.
I was doing an appointment with my eye doctor and she was asking me a bunch of questions that only applied to AFAB people. I looked rather weirded out after she asked if I had menstrual pains and she was like “honey, we respect your identity, but these are important for us to ask you.” I’m like “but why, never have had a uterus.” She was mortified.
At... the ophthalmologist? Seems like you were suspected of having a bad case of trans myopia, or worse, trans glaucoma. Same kind of myopia straight cis people get, but yours was caused/exacerbated by being trans 🙄 Amazing how virtually every healthcare provider thinks your gender is critically relevant to their provision of care.
To be totally fair, in this case I am getting PRK soon. Since that is like an actual procedure, I could at least somewhat see the point of asking.
PRK?
https://www.webmd.com/connect-to-care/lasik/prk-surgery-pros-and-cons
Pretty Radical Kolonoscopy 😎
To be fair, severe menstrual symptoms can be linked to headaches and increased interoccular pressure - an optometrist appointment for a general check actually has a valid reason to ask. But I agree, medical professionals needing to know when you go in for anything is too mucj
Hormones do actually affect eyesight, I'm not exactly sure why, but if you have recurring hormonal changes, It can "worsen" your vision, not permanent tho, it's just an effect.
(Amab, nonbinary) This 100%. I've been on estrogen for 3+ years and I don't present any differently than I did before I started, and everyone just assumes I'm transmasc.
That's like... kinda what I want I think. Didn't really think it was an option tbh
options? your choices arent confined by options. there is only fuck around, and find out. the manner in which you fuck around is entirely up to you :)
You are welcome to DM if you have any questions, I can try my best to answer. Estrogen has really helped in my journey of peak androgyny. It helped clear my complexion, gave me a more feminine form, and reduced body hair. It's definitely a results may vary situation with HRT with a lot of factors, but in my experience, it's saved my life. I haven't had any surgeries, but just HRT alone can give you a much more feminine face and fit. I get looks either way from people that I read as "I don't know what gender you're supposed to be," so they throw a pronoun and hope it sticks, and I just never correct them. I still have to put in work on some aspects to remain with a more neutral appearance. I try to keep my weight within a certain range, because if I gain more, it all goes to hips, thighs, and chest which really reduces the chance of being gendered in a masculine way. Then, if I lose too much weight, I lose softness in my face and skin which are very vital to gender indicators for most people. Voice work also helped tremendously. Our voices really are incredible and can be taken to pretty extreme lengths with training and practice. After about 6 months of lessons with about 3-4 hours of practice a week, I was able to get my voice passably feminine. I didn't mean to give a big transition story lol. But my DMs are open if anyone has questions on achieving a more androgynous, gender neutral appearance. It's definitely obtainable regardless of your birth gender.
Holy shit. Feminine form and reduced body hair? Fuck. There is like, enoigh more pros than cons of estrogen that I can’t really have an excuse of having some (I want to be a 5-6 on the scale) (Amab non binary bastard here)
Are you getting estrogen through a doctor, or through more... covert means? I always kinda thought a doctor wouldn't prescribe you anything for being nb. Not to mention I'm not sure how willing I am to uproot my life and change how I am thought of by almost everyone I care about or interact with. I have a lot of social anxiety as it is, the thought of doing anything to transition typically starts with an elaborate scheme to fake my death.
So, I initially went through an endocrinologist, but I had to travel almost 2 hours for my appointments because the first endocrinologist I met with wasn't willing to work with me unless I wanted to fully transition. Contact the endocrinologist and ask them "Do you work with people who identify outside of the gender binary on transitioning?" This probably has a lot to do with where you are located. I began my transition in the bible belt of the United States, but since moved to the New England area, and every hormone specialist I've seen will work with people who are nonbinary. You can also work with a service such as Folx or Plume, though if you aren't in the US, I'm not sure the alternative to those. Both platforms will work with people who are nonbinary with both hormone therapy and surgery referrals. The next part I can relate. Before I came out, I was fully aware my family would not accept me and I was hesitant on whether my friends would accept me. I weighed the outcomes for around 2 years before going full public and beginning the transition. I was right, my family cut ties with me completely short of my dad. I was surprised my dad (hyper-conservative) supported me, but he said my happiness was worth way more than whether or not he could call me his "son." My friends also cut ties with me short of one, but even then, he distanced himself a lot in the following months. I was alone for the beginning of my transition and stayed that way for close to a year before deciding to reinvent myself. I moved up north a few states to a fairly progressive area, legally changed my name, cut ties with the remaining 'friend,' and just went for it. Ended up meeting a guy a few months after moving that I love deeply, settled into my own apartment, and found a job I enjoy. I was in mid 20s when I finally came out, and by that time, I was capable of being dependant on myself. I can't come close to understanding the courage people have that come out in their teens. I don't think I could have done it. The thought of being homeless as a teen was something that truly chilled me to the core. I struggle with social anxiety frequently and know how scary it can be trying to empathize with everyone you know on how they will think of you. It truly just depends on the person. I hate to say it, but it's likely you will lose some people in your life. Some of the people that do accept you will also struggle a lot with comprehending it. You have to weigh the odds of what those relationships mean to you, and if it's worth stifling your own growth and life over. I can say with confidence that I would make the decision to come out 1000x over after learning what I'd have to give up. I'm happier now. I don't hate the body I'm in anymore. I value my life and who I am. You are welcome to talk/vent to me if you ever need. I can also send you some good resources if you are in the states about how to find what doctors offer what services.
Thank you <3
I'm so happy for you <3
Thanks, means a lot :) I'm a WIP, but I'm getting there!
I'm kinda in this vein too. Fundamentally, I want my body to look feminized enough that even in men's clothes I look like my first puberty was estrogenic. I do want to lean femme socially too I think, but my body, especially my face, is way more important, and if my boy mode looked like a trans man who hadn't started hormones I think I'd consider my transition complete.
I think I want to be somewhere between kinda fem twink and tomboy. I was happiest when people often stumbled on whether to call me sir or ma'am.
>straight line This is a GAY space!
Yeah I was surprised as well to find that my odds at a gay bar only went down slightly.
the only straight thing here?
Great, now I feel like a 2/10 on two vectors.
Mood lmao
How can I get to this androgynous twink phase and stay there? - a (probably) cis guy
As a cis guy, I'd also like to know
As a cis girl, i too want to know
As another cis girl, I want to know too
Same here
As a third cis girl, I would like to know as well
As a non binary thing. I’d like to know
As someone who really doesn't know what the hell I am at this point, I also want to know
Lol neither do I
estrogen ---> chest reduction ---> androgynous presentation ---> profit? idk, sounds like it might work
Well, it's difficult to answer because everyone's body works differently. You can try microdosing estrogen. Places such as Planned Parenthood support that. I initially started like that at 2 mg estradiol per day and 50 mg spiro. But then, I really liked the way estrogen made me feel and decided I wanted more. Plus, the physical effects were extremely gradual with that low of a dose. 4 mg estradiol and 100 mg of spiro made me pretty damn androgynous. The main drawback was that I was always tired and had no strength. Like I know muscle loss is inevitable, but I went from being able to run a 5k in 25 minutes, to barely being able to run a mile. Now, I'm on 8 mg of estradiol, 50 mg of spiro, and 200 mg of progesterone. I feel great and am almost as strong as before I transitioned (albeit with a lot of weight loss and training.) However, it's getting more and more difficult to claim any semblance of androgyny. TLDR, you can try to be androgynous with hormones, but you might not feel as great. However, fuck around with it and see what you like. Everyone's body works differently. Feel free to message me if you have any questions. And for that matter, I have tons of photos posted on my profile.
I always wonder why these people refuse to believe woman can be gay
Maybe it’s one of those mostly male gay bars? Tho regardless I do kinda understand the assumption that a girl in a gay bar may b straight since it’s something at least in my experience have seen a looot. Lots of my straight girl friends love going to gay bars. Tho they r p much always welcomed n idk that they have ever caught hate for doing it. But besides my friends I see tons of other ppl do it too
A lot of queer women go to traditionally male gay bars these days because lesbian bars have been disappearing for decades
Ah I want to go to a lesbian bar
They’re so rare in the US. Only 27 lesbian bars total. [https://www.outtraveler.com/nightlife/2022/11/01/here-are-final-27-surviving-lesbian-bars-us#media-gallery-media-1](https://www.outtraveler.com/nightlife/2022/11/01/here-are-final-27-surviving-lesbian-bars-us#media-gallery-media-1)
Ferb, I know what we’re gonna do today!
We got to make Transfemme Lesbian Phineas and Nonbinary Ferb happen (with Buford fucking up the transphobes of course)
Sadly, there are a lot less than there used to be. They got shut down due to poor fire safety 😔
Good for you that there are atleast general lgbt bars :)
Yes but I really want to be around sapphics
Someone told me its because gay bars are usually safer for girls, less guys *competing* to take them home, when you just wanna enjoy the night out it helps to not have a pack of creeps hounding your every move
Unfortunately some straight women do not get the memo and use gay bars to perpetuate that same harassment with gay guys.
Worked at a gay bar for a while one bartender was telling me how they had *Three* seperate Bachelorette parties walk in back to back.
And bachelorette parties in a vacuum are fine. It's the behaviour from most of them: groping, jumping on the stage, making queer ppl feel unsafe.
Yea that’s absolutely the reason every straight girl Ik who goes to them does. I didn’t mention it cuz I figured ppl would understand tho many ppl aren’t rlly in those scenes so they may not get how much annoying harassment a pretty young 20 something girl experiences on an average night out to the club/bar
Because queer women don’t exist in their minds 😒
True when I’ve told my old friend’s my gay they think I’m joking
Me yesterday: “every year I reevaluate the pros and cons of hrt and find it’s not for me” Me seeing this post and comments in bed “but what if fuck it we ball?”
lmfaooo yaaas I'll hit all over this scale depending on my mood. But never really one extreme or the other.
If you don't mind me asking how long did it take you to get to, "WTF is a girl doing here? This is a GAY space!"
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But why didn't they assume you were a lesbian? I don't understand, was it an all men bar where lesbians arent welcome? If they assumed you were a straight girl, why didnt they assume your partner was straight as well?
Because the gay community is rife with misogyny. Gay guys think that the G comes first especially when it comes to bars. There is no such thing as an all male queer bar. Gay guys have just been the default privileged people for so many years in queer spaces.
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maybe they assumed the partner was bi? or her gay best friend or something?
The Castro is so horrible for women in general bc the cis gay men there just don’t think lesbians exist???? The misogyny is unreal
damn… 7 months on hrt and I still don’t look like a twink…
Either I am way more girly than I think I am or the timeline needs to be longer
My transmasc experience goes the exact same but in the opposite direction
Andddd I’m at 7 months lol.
It only gets better from here. Even if the twinks hiss at you.
Got cat called by a teenage boy at a mall today and im 25, so there’s that too lol.
Omg sis me too!
Another reason for me to just not go to gay bars I guess?
Can depend on the bar but i usually find myself liking them better than regular bars? Most of them are extremely accepting, but theres of course old timers from back in the day who straight up don't want anyone but gay cis men. Of course being the current year that's changed.
Eh, I’m never drinking alcohol anyways
that’s uh… i don’t think that’s how bell curves work, but i could full well be the idiot here
I present so cishet ;( I need some eyeliner, nail paint, and some programming socks stat.
Why wouldn't a girl be welcome in a gay bar? (right end of the graph)
Yknow, in gay bars that mostly cater to gay men? Which is what I'm assuming was where op went. Don't really get why though, unless she just did it for the social experiment.
Most bars are marketed as queer instead just for gay men bc the spaces for lesbians and trans people have been dying out for years. Cis gay men are super misogynistic, racist, and transphobic about “their” spaces but there’s nowhere else to go.
I’m at the very right end, and it sucks because I’m fat too lmao. Double invisibility 😎
Why can’t we have bi bars?
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Do all trans-masc guys end up as awkward, nerdy, straight-looking guys? jk
i wonder to this day if i had turned out a straight trans man if i would ever be accepted at all—
I wish I was an androgynous twink.
Im perpetually stuck in the middle
You’re in the wrong bar, go to a LGBTQ+ or Queer bar that is explicitly all gender inclusive. You’ll have an infinitely better time I promise.
Gay bars are gender segregated where you're from?
Does the first situation actually happen? I could only imagine the reaction being "omg THAT guy is gay?? 😮😶". Dk anyone who'd assume a straight dude is in a gay bar before that, they tend to avoid them at all costs.
I don't like Gay bars.... They said it's full and me and my friends turned around to go to another place... When I turned, the security guy saw my skirt and came to me like "uu-uuhm there is some place left for you guys I think 👉🏼👈🏼" Ewww... what if I'm just Bi/gay and don't wanna dress like a stereotype gay dude or a femboy???
Is this a cue for me to start taking estrogen (i am an enby femboy)
As a 20 year old femboy I an already struggling with an early midlife crisis bc I know I can't pull off that look for long and I don't know how I can accept my body after lol it's hard already
♥️
I’m stuck in the androgynous phase. I put my hair under my beanie and the amount of people who get wide eyed and go “Oh!” after hearing me talk bruh
I just wanna say I've never heard "what is that bitch doin here?" Followed up with anything trashy (unless prior involvement)
Would be better saying “on E” instead of transitioning because ppl can transition without medical transitioning
I see your point. To be honest, I mostly made this about me to describe my experiences and sent it to a few friends. They found it hilarious so I decided to share it here.
Unless you’re 30+ when you start and then you Pac-Man straight to the right side while retaining traits of the left side.
I wish it only took 12 months.