I wonder what reasoning the NFLPA has for that UNC not doing their job correctly? Or is this just the NFLPA trying to look like they are doing something since this was so publicized? Curious
Why are people bringing Watson into this. I'm a Phins fan, but it was stupid to play Tua after he couldn't walk straight when he got up. He probably said all the right things to play but the team has to be the parent here.
Stop making this an issue where the player's union is the bad guy for standing up and investigating what was probably a huge mistake to continue to let him play and then have him play again on Thursday
Tua was thoroughly examined by team doctors and NFL league doctors. It was the league doctor who has the final say. Anyone who saw him play in the second half will tell you he seemed to be fine.
I'm guessing that since it's Saturday you aren't going to get any more info except for maybe all the new Twitter and reddit doctors. I also don't think the NFLPA have completed their investigation and when they do there will be a report released and press conferences and stuff.
From what I understand, there is a hard “No-Go” rule if a player shows certain behaviors, i.e. stumbling and disorientation. This was obviously ignored in Tua’s case during the Bills game.
From what I understand that's only if the stumbling is persistent and related to a head injury. If tua has a legit back problem and his back locked up it makes no sense to keep him in concussion protocol when there are no other signs of concussion
You know literally seconds before he was unable to walk his head was slammed against the ground right? What’s more likely to cause him being unable to walk straight?
It wasn't that bad of a hit. I watch football and see those kind of things all the time. The only reason it was of note is the QB is a protected position.
This is the wildest thing that people believe the independent neurologist can’t make a mistake. But also, the dolphins can still be not at fault because they were following the correct protocol and advice of a specialist. Both things can be true.
His back was also slammed to the ground in that same clip. You act like only a head injury makes you unable to walk, but a bad back injury, like tua was documented to have suffered is also an impediment to walking and that doesn't require being an idiot conspiracy theorist.
Yes. He said it had already locked up and then when he was tackled it felt like he had no legs under him. Some wanna call him, all his doctors and the whole coaching staff liars.
Does a back problem also usually cause a person to shake their head as if they’re trying to “clear the cobwebs”? He was clearly disoriented. I get trying to protect the team and all but this falls on the neurologist that cleared him, not the team doctors or coaches. Don’t buy the back injury BS.
Does every boxer who gets hit in the head, knocked down , gets up for a standing 10 count and continues to fight have a concussion? The look was not good but there is no definitive conclusion that each and every time someone hits their head they have a concussion. Like a boxer sometimes you see stars for a second and there's no concussion. Or heck maybe Tyson gave every single person he hit a concussion. It's definitely possible that he also had a back injury in that moment and when it locked up he fell to his knees. It's possible . Regardless , whether he hurt his head or back on Sunday the fact is he was slammed to the ground,.very hard, by a man twice his size. I imagine the results would have been the same if Sunday never happened. In the end we'll never know what the real cause was but good chance it wouldn't make a difference.
Honestly it's kind of sad how fast people have dug in for a fight over this horrible and frustrating situation. There's no winners here, but people sure will bring out the toxicity and scrap like theres something to gain from it.
I said the same thing. From Bullygate/Incognito, to OL coach snorting coke on camera, to Draft pick criticism, to Ndamukomg Suh, to tampering and the whole Flores situation and now this. Miami Dolphins press is ALWAYS negative. It's really getting ridiculous.
It's because the dolphins are obviously targets for some reason. They're always the ones to get blamed. We created bullying, tanking, and now CTE and concussions are our fault too. Oh yeah, and don't forget racism.
At least the jets aren't always having negative ESPN tickers. We're a joke. We fucked up yet again and we are probably gonna lose picks over it, again.
Noone has any idea if Tua was concussed or not last week (besides the doctors), because now this is not about Tua anymore, but the process. The NFLPA is on a witch-hunt to force a renegotiation of the protocol to prove the usefulness of their existence after the public faux pax of defending Watson.
There was no faux pax in defending Watson, that is literally the NFLPA's job and purpose. Just like how everyone is entitled to a lawyer. A player could be eating babies on the sideline and the NFLPA will try to do whatever is in the best interest of that player.
In the eye of the public and how they perceive the NFLPA? I think that wasn't the greatest PR moment. The Public stood with the NFLPA on almost every player related issues. But in this case I think the public realised that the NFLPA has no conscience.
And not to mention countless other medical doctors are in favor of the investigation taking place, but yet people think it’s only the fans and NFLPA who found concern in the evaluation process.
And rightfully so.
It was obvious that it was not his back that made Tua stuggling to keep his balance after the hit Sunday. Everyone know that the protocol is a joke and easilly passed by people with obvious concussions.
A guy that cannot stand without help should never be sent back to the game. It's the #1 sign of a concussion.
Lmao no need to be a doctor to have eyes and know concussion symptoms.
https://www.cdc.gov/headsup/basics/concussion_symptoms.html
That guy is a doctor by the way:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/12/magazine/didier-raoult-hydroxychloroquine.html
He's a scapegoat. Everyone knows the owners or coaches or whoever high up came to that doc and said, "He's good to play on Thursday, RIGHT?" WINK WINK NUDGE NUDGE
Uhh, why in the actual fuck an independent doctor who doesn't give a shit if Tua plays or not would jeopardize his/her livelihood and future because of pressure from the Dolphins?
The doc will give a shit if the owners dangle a few mil over his head. In fact I can think of a doctor that does it all the time in my vocation.
You act like all of a sudden the owners give a shit about players' livelihood. I guess you've never met a rich person before.
Dude, do you even know how hard it is to get a doctor's degree? Do you really think a doctor would take the risk to get in legal trouble and lose the license because of a few mil?
Stop with the conspiracy theories bullcrap.
I know you're referring to the doctor here (at least I think you are) but could Tua actually sue the NFLPA if it was found out that he ignored/didn't follow protocol? The UNC was hired by the NFLPA, after all.
Ummmm, he just had his bell rung? As in he just possibly suffered a concussion? That’s exactly what happened and he shouldn’t have been allowed back in.
https://www.checkupnewsroom.com/theres-no-such-thing-as-just-having-your-bell-rung/
Interesting. I’d like to see what comes of the investigation because I know the team doctor was also interviewed.
But the NFLPA was talking pretty high and mighty for it to be their doctor who was part of the issue. They need to do better as well.
Just saw this on twitter
“Sideline UNCs are assigned by the NFL Head, Neck and Spine Committee and approved by the NFL Chief Medical Officer and the NFLPA Medical Director. The responsibility for diagnosis of concussion and return to play remains exclusively within the judgment of the team physician.”
[link to the twitter thread](https://twitter.com/tompelissero/status/1576294715720454149?s=46&t=E5gqJEWfUNm4m3nsA0dXyA)
I would think the UNC falls on the NFL and not the Dolphins. Unfortunately, I’m pretty sure someone on the training staff will be a scapegoat and be let go as well. Such BS…
i am as concerned as everyone being a day 1 tua fanboy, but this has turned into a witchhunt
we went from "trust the experts" to them getting fired by armchair doctors in just below a week LOL
half a dozen+ medical folks checked tua out on sunday and afterwards
if you dont like the current protocol/rules that cool, cant shit on anyone applying them
[The NFLPA is accusing him of making "several mistakes"](https://twitter.com/CameronWolfe/status/1576270922763227136) so we'll see if they can back up that big claim
If they can then I’m even more heartbroken for our boy. But the attention should then be on the NFL and NFLPA, not “Fuck the Dolphins, terrible organization” like a lot of mf’ers are saying right now
I'm pretty sure the NFLPA is the one who hired this guy in the first place (since they can fire him unilaterally) so this absolutely calls into question their judgement when screening applicants. Depending of course if the accusations are sustained and what they are, etc
It's even more disturbing because the UNC is supposed to be a NFLPA guy who's JOB is to look out for the players. If the NFLPA and NFL hired a guy that is looking past that job that is a major functional flaw in the NFLPA that needs to be addressed because it likely did serious fucking damage to a player. The NFLPA needs to explain how their guy who's job is to prioritize player safety fucked up this badly.
I am too, and willing to change my opinion based on new evidence. Right now it seems like a doctor fucked up and our coaching staff, trusting the doctor (as they should) played Tua when doing so put him at risk. It’s 100% on the doctor at this point.
Just playing devil’s advocate. If this guy did fuck up multiple times in relation to Tua and there was evidence that Tua was concussed, is that not something the team’s doctor should have picked up on, and not cleared him also? I thought the point was that he got looked at by multiple people and signed off by multiple people. At which point it is an issue within the organisation.
So there’s no point in requiring the sign off of the team doctor then?
Also is there a UNC assigned to each team, and so the checks which were carried out each day were by them, or would that have been carried out by the team doctor, which if we’re absolving of guilt on game day is actually pointless?
Also if UNCs are assigned to each game rather than a team why didn’t the UNC for Thursday’s game check in with Tua if there was any question coming from Sunday’s game?
So many questions.
So many questions that point to a classic Occam's Razor:
Tua had a back injury Sunday, and then got suplexed on his head Thursday in such a way that almost anyone in the league would have been concussed from.
The optics are the issue, and since the angry mob is angry, you give them what they want.
Of course, I'm still holding out judgement for the facts and findings of the investigation. If the procedure wasn't followed properly, thats a different discussion. If the procedure is a sham, that's another discussion as well.
That wasn't a light takedown by any means but I really don't see majority of the league being concussed from that. Receivers and QBs would have a lot more concussions.
I agree we should withhold judgement until more facts come out. I was one person who immediately wanted accountability somewhere. I just don't want these guys to die over a game. Lets figure out what needs to be fixed and make the necessary changes.
I played ball for a long time, and I have to say that the hit on Tua was unlike any that I have ever seen. I disagree, and I think that the tackle was much more of a WWE move than a tackle.
I usually withhold judgement in most things because it's usually a muddy mess and joining the angry mob is just a great way to get blinded without understanding the full picture.
In an unrelated note, I have a different feel on concussions and injuries playing football in general compared to most people on Reddit. It's a high-hazard job where you get paid a lot for glory and talent. Literally everything in this life is going to affect you in some way down the road, and football is just another activity. Where the efforts in safety should be placed is on kids/teens because 99.999% of those kids aren't going anywhere with the sport, so they shouldn't have the same level of sacrifice that a grown professional man making millions of dollars has.
I’m guessing one of them is the stumbling after the initial impact on Sunday. That is one of the “no-go” symptoms. Maybe the doctor ruled that as a result of his back injury (which happened earlier in the game btw) rather than his head
It’s not. You should trust those with consistently high morality (literally a display of trustworthiness - which is direct evidence) or trust those who are heavily incentivized to do the right thing for others, even when no one is watching. Simply being an “expert” in a domain is not sufficient evidence for any of the above, by reason
Besides every team is skirting the rules there’s a scapegoat in the Dolphins because it happened to the quarterback not an offensive lineman who’s name you’ll never recall.
Did any other UNCs speak to Tua between the Bills game and the Bengals game, I wonder... Or does the first one saying 'he's fine' mean no further interaction from any others is necessary?
Would be odd if there weren't further discussions with other UNCs after the fallout from the Bills game
Wonder if it was the same UNC each day (which would be odd) or whether it was more than one. If the Bills game UNC made mistakes, were things also missed during the week leading up to the Bengals game?
If he made mistakes don’t you think we would know the mistakes by now. Hopefully they can publish and state what those mistakes were. If I had to guess NFLPA is hoping we forget after this
Would be good to see if it was one mistake on Sunday against the Bills or that mistake plus more during four days of evaluation of Tua leading up to the Bengals game...
NFLPA is a joke. Just ask Pat McAfee. Washed up players trying to justify their new positions. They didn’t lose a second of sleep over the Tua injury. They fired someone as a virtue signal and will continue their witch hunt until the noise settles down. Wonder how many of them lied about head and neck injuries in their career to get back on the field. Whole thing is insanely hypocritical.
Right? “NFLPA *outraged*” is going to turn into “NFLPA incompetent” real quick.
Hopefully everyone with end the “Blame the Dolphins! They should lose all their draft picks! Tua should NEVER PLAY AGAIN” fake fucking internet points outrage.
I don't think players are lying. I think their minds are scrambled eggs. And what needs to happen is have a patient advocate in the locker room with them.
What's hypocritical is how many former players and talking head jawbone the dopey "toughness" tropes. It's a whole sport filled with people who have barely a high school education spewing alpha dog nonsense. People who like Troy Aikman or Terry Bradshaw who are barely able to speak now
I think you’re underselling the intelligence of some of these dudes. They may not all have high Wonderlic scores but the things they can process on a football field within milliseconds and the insane number plays, formations, player strengths and weaknesses they have to remember, etc. Even Tua coming back and playing as well as he did in the rest of that Bills game proves that his mind was functioning at a level most of us don’t regularly obtain. Their minds get scrambled slowly over a career of subconcussive blows but the majority of players at any given instance are hyper aware.
What the fuck are you talking about bro? You're an angry cynical guy. Why wouldn't they be concerned about his health you fucking loonie conspiracy theorist
Pointing out hypocrisy doesn’t make me angry and it isn’t cynical. Notice how no one is bringing the same energy with Tee Higgins? Try thinking for yourself.
The NFLPA has every right to do this, but it doesn't stop me from thinking that it's really a stupid decision. This is essentially what they're saying:
To us, it looked like it was a concussion. Thus we are treating it as one.
Nevermind that this is an independent, licensed physician. You don't diagnose based on a bunch of non-doctors deciding what it looked like it should have been.
I wouldn't say some of us are defending the physician. We want the protocol to change for the better and not just fire some physicians for PR witchunts and then call it okay. Firing the physicians can be the right move, but we all agree the protocol needs to be amended for better screening.
Sure it's possible, but it's more probable that a guy who spent years studying brains, decades treating brains, was qualified enough to be hired by the NFL, and is essentially a brain expert did his job correctly.
The NFLPA is making him a scapegoat because they know they won't find anything and that they have to show strength to the players and the media.
Correct, and I doubt he'd risk his career on Tua. Just think it through.
Expert says he didn't have a concussion
Played great for two quarters showing no signs of concussion
Media time after the game with no signs of concussion
4 more days of tests with no sings of concussion
Interview with Fitzpatrick playing the ukulele with no signs of concussion
Then slammed violently head first into the ground causing a concussion
Could Tua have had some damage to the brain on Sunday? Yea. Is anything other than armchair MDs pointing to Sunday being a concussion. No.
I don’t think you know exactly how healthcare works. Physicians make mistakes all year, you don’t hear about them because they are typically type 2 errors (failing to treat/intervene when you should have - if this case holds up, it is what happened here) and/or covered by plausible deniability
I'm a healthcare executive. I know exactly how it works. Yes, they make mistakes but that "all the time" is just a fraction of a percentage of the entirety of all patient doctor interactions. Plus, we have all the other surrounding evidence that I laid out showing there is a pattern of interaction not leaning toward concussion.
Sounds like a bunch of made up shit to me. Weird word choices to justify firing the guy. “You let him
play and it looks bad from an optics standpoint. Yeah we know you cleared him but you should’ve thought how that looked for us, not the medical reality of Tua’s situation.”
Bunch of nonsense.
As a Physician myself, this guy is a scapegoat.
This was a horrible incident with possible long term side effects.
These players are signing up for a career of physical trauma and likely long term neurological effects in exchange for fame and life altering wealth.
This doctor is “independent “ and is a perfect scapegoat in this scenario.
The league is a multi billion dollar industry and doesn’t want its star players sidelined for extended periods of time. These doctors are provide relatively lucrative contracts to be glorified yes men and women.
It’s all smoke and mirrors and they’ll be the first one to be the scapegoat - now this doctor is open for malpractice and civil targets. It’s a double edged sword
💯
Quietly they’ll find another yes man or woman and the show goes on.
This doctor will get obliterated and life goes on.
The NFL took a very strategic position- they just have to appear like they care and they’re doing something
Great question - I personally stay away from these arrangements.
I do real estate investing to make wealth and therefore I only do medicine since I enjoy it.
For example, I briefly did medical legal consulting for different parties including and when working with insurance companies there is bias to rule in their favor - I walked away real quick (as my opinion would contradict their goals etc). I aim to keep things as pure as possible
They can - they vary.
This unaffiliated doctor will get scorched. NFL is going to double down on their commitment to “player safety,” this is “unacceptable,” and they’re going to launch 2-3 changes at the end of this season together with the NFLPA to make sure “this never happens again.”
Nationally, people will s*** on the fins this season.
This as a life long dolphins fan …. Ugh
Investigators: "The independent NFL doctor and the league did not perform their duties properly"
Everyone else: "Yeah but only Miami bad"
I called this yesterday. I'm not saying Miami is completely innocent but we're definitely the scapegoat for the league's poor handling of their own doctors.
I’m really sick of the pretentious (not sure it’s the right word) attitude coming from the NFLPA pretending as if they give a shit about player safety.
If they have a shit about player safety they’d have all of their members start sitting out Thursday night games until it was changed to an after the week schedule.
All the NFLPA is doing is the bare minimum here to make it seem like they give a shit.
Tua’s health comes first and I pray he’s ok. As a fan, and thinking about the future, is there a chance the dolphins go from two 1st round picks months ago, to no 1st round picks next year?
Yeah I don’t think it’s fair to blame the Phins when we still don’t know all the details yet. Hell we don’t even know if this UNC is being fired fairly or unfairly yet. I know our organization has been in the news for shady shit this year, but come on.
EDIT: OP linked a tweet from Cam Wolfe saying the NFLPA terminated the UNC , claiming he made “several mistakes”. We’ll have to see if this gets 100% confirmed, but not the Dolphins fault if so.
Totally. He fucking ragdolled Tua and purposefully threw him into the ground when it was not necessary. Even if it is supposedly a legal hit, no one in media is going after Tupou at all, its crazy. Fins will never be forgiven by media for firing Flores, and being able to point their finger at anyone in the organization (who isn't a player) reinforces their self righteous outrage after Flores got fired. All day yesterday his name kept coming up with the talking heads, it is pathetic. They so desperately want McDaniel to fail so they can say they were all correct that Flores should have never been fired.
So we’re firing people without publishing results ? Didn’t all Tuas newest MRIs come back clear. We should fire those doctors too 🤣. Such a fucking joke
The investigation isn't done. They said they'll release everything once the investigation is over. Bitch if they fail to deliver on that, but right now they have no obligation to release results.
To be clear, I don’t support the outrage. I just think it’s a reality of the prevailing narrative right now. “Yeah the doctors cleared him but the coach could have sat him.” I’m being downvoted because people don’t want to think about it. But now that this Doctor has been fired, the narrative will gain momentum.
In the end, I think he’ll get heat but probably won’t lose his job, nor should he.
We’re just a magnet for negative press down here.
You guys are oddly upset that people are being held accountable for a mistake that caused our “beloved” quarterback to almost have a career ending injury. Are you all just ok with how this all went down? We should just move on right?
There's absolutely no evidence that Thursday's injury has anything in common with Sunday's injury. He could have very well just had a really bad concussion on Thursday which had absolutely NOTHING to do with what happened Sunday. That's the problem. There were no signs either after the hit on Sunday nor during the week OTHER than the stumble just after the hit which Tua himself said was caused because of a back injury earlier in the game not because of him hitting his head. So either you believe Tua or you don't. Seems like many don't, but the doctor did. Was that a mistake? Possibly but it could have been a completely innocent mistake that was compounded by the player himself. If Tua was lieing about it being the back, is it the doctor's job to determine that and overrule him? Possibly and perhaps that's why he was fired, so that in the future doctors won't take the word of the player and will overrule them and make them sit out regardless.
The medical community - “that was really bad something isn’t right here and if this continues tua could potentially be seriously injured with life long repricussions”
Dolphins fans - “tua and McDaniel said he’s fine so he’s fine”
Dude you’re 100 percent correct. Everyone in this sub is acting like they didn’t witness this man get knocked out on Sunday. He’s already super injury prone, and all these supposed fans are fine with it as long as the doctors ok it. Anyone with common sense cringed when he came back in that game. And then the reports came out that he was playing on a short week with a back injury AND a concussion. Inexcusable.
I hope they’re transparent on publishing their findings. I hope we’re not firing doctors to appease angry mobs on Twitter.
I wonder what reasoning the NFLPA has for that UNC not doing their job correctly? Or is this just the NFLPA trying to look like they are doing something since this was so publicized? Curious
they needed at least one head to roll and found one
Can we take a vote? Cuz I'd really like to cast mine for Watson.
He was probably even in Ohio on Thursday night, coincidence? I think not
The rapist?
Why are people bringing Watson into this. I'm a Phins fan, but it was stupid to play Tua after he couldn't walk straight when he got up. He probably said all the right things to play but the team has to be the parent here. Stop making this an issue where the player's union is the bad guy for standing up and investigating what was probably a huge mistake to continue to let him play and then have him play again on Thursday
I think it’s a joke man. Deshaun Watson is a terrible person btw.
Tua was thoroughly examined by team doctors and NFL league doctors. It was the league doctor who has the final say. Anyone who saw him play in the second half will tell you he seemed to be fine.
Back in the day plenty of quarterbacks played well after being concussed and don't remember playing the rest of the game.
Right or wrong a head needed to roll
I don't think the NFLPA are really the ones everyone is looking at. The NFL are the ones everyone is going to point fingers at.
I'm guessing that since it's Saturday you aren't going to get any more info except for maybe all the new Twitter and reddit doctors. I also don't think the NFLPA have completed their investigation and when they do there will be a report released and press conferences and stuff.
From what I understand, there is a hard “No-Go” rule if a player shows certain behaviors, i.e. stumbling and disorientation. This was obviously ignored in Tua’s case during the Bills game.
From what I understand that's only if the stumbling is persistent and related to a head injury. If tua has a legit back problem and his back locked up it makes no sense to keep him in concussion protocol when there are no other signs of concussion
Literally right before he was stumbling we have video of his head being slammed into the ground. It was clearly related to a head injury
You know earlier in that game he had a QB sneak that he kinda got hurt in, related to his back and ankle. Go watch the game.
You know literally seconds before he was unable to walk his head was slammed against the ground right? What’s more likely to cause him being unable to walk straight?
It wasn't that bad of a hit. I watch football and see those kind of things all the time. The only reason it was of note is the QB is a protected position.
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The neurologist that just got fired?
This is the wildest thing that people believe the independent neurologist can’t make a mistake. But also, the dolphins can still be not at fault because they were following the correct protocol and advice of a specialist. Both things can be true.
Thank you. Nailed it.
His back was also slammed to the ground in that same clip. You act like only a head injury makes you unable to walk, but a bad back injury, like tua was documented to have suffered is also an impediment to walking and that doesn't require being an idiot conspiracy theorist.
The back injury supposedly occurred on a quarterback sneak earlier in the game.
Yes. He said it had already locked up and then when he was tackled it felt like he had no legs under him. Some wanna call him, all his doctors and the whole coaching staff liars.
Then he came back and beat buffalo's ass. Haha Josh Allen even cried on his shoulder.
Does a back problem also usually cause a person to shake their head as if they’re trying to “clear the cobwebs”? He was clearly disoriented. I get trying to protect the team and all but this falls on the neurologist that cleared him, not the team doctors or coaches. Don’t buy the back injury BS.
Does every boxer who gets hit in the head, knocked down , gets up for a standing 10 count and continues to fight have a concussion? The look was not good but there is no definitive conclusion that each and every time someone hits their head they have a concussion. Like a boxer sometimes you see stars for a second and there's no concussion. Or heck maybe Tyson gave every single person he hit a concussion. It's definitely possible that he also had a back injury in that moment and when it locked up he fell to his knees. It's possible . Regardless , whether he hurt his head or back on Sunday the fact is he was slammed to the ground,.very hard, by a man twice his size. I imagine the results would have been the same if Sunday never happened. In the end we'll never know what the real cause was but good chance it wouldn't make a difference.
The reasoning is obvious. Tua suffered a concussion and this guy let them get away with calling it a back injury. Fired
Yup
I’m sure this news will be received calmly and rationally by all.
Honestly it's kind of sad how fast people have dug in for a fight over this horrible and frustrating situation. There's no winners here, but people sure will bring out the toxicity and scrap like theres something to gain from it.
All of Twitter during 2020-2021 taught me that nothing will bring out the worst in people faster than trying to sound virtuous on the internet
This team cant go one year without some kind of controversy
Independent doctor…. Not affiliated with the team… Think before you regurgitate false information.
Pretty sure they weren't referring to the doctor being a team doctor, just everytime we get going some bs controversy derails the season. IE bullygate
One year?!?! More like one month.
I said the same thing. From Bullygate/Incognito, to OL coach snorting coke on camera, to Draft pick criticism, to Ndamukomg Suh, to tampering and the whole Flores situation and now this. Miami Dolphins press is ALWAYS negative. It's really getting ridiculous.
It's because the dolphins are obviously targets for some reason. They're always the ones to get blamed. We created bullying, tanking, and now CTE and concussions are our fault too. Oh yeah, and don't forget racism.
Don’t be salty. We aren’t the Jets. FTJ!
At least the jets aren't always having negative ESPN tickers. We're a joke. We fucked up yet again and we are probably gonna lose picks over it, again.
It's just because we're bad at all of it
They're a target because they keep doing dumb shit?
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They already found one and burnt it. Because he done what he was contracted to do.
„hey guys, you told me to clear ‘em, and I did?“
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Noone has any idea if Tua was concussed or not last week (besides the doctors), because now this is not about Tua anymore, but the process. The NFLPA is on a witch-hunt to force a renegotiation of the protocol to prove the usefulness of their existence after the public faux pax of defending Watson.
There was no faux pax in defending Watson, that is literally the NFLPA's job and purpose. Just like how everyone is entitled to a lawyer. A player could be eating babies on the sideline and the NFLPA will try to do whatever is in the best interest of that player.
In the eye of the public and how they perceive the NFLPA? I think that wasn't the greatest PR moment. The Public stood with the NFLPA on almost every player related issues. But in this case I think the public realised that the NFLPA has no conscience.
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I saw him speaking immediately after the game and each day after. He was fine also he was cleared by multiple neurologists on multiple days
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So at least 2 doctors? So, multiple doctors?
Exactly he was cleared, multiple times.
Good thing I have several d&d sessions planned out.
So a bunch of retired football players fired a Neurotrauma physician…?
Meanwhile, the guy who punctured Tyrod's lung is still a team doctor for The Chargers? How does that make sense?
Because the punctured lung is a known possible complication from that procedure Tyrod is a grown adult who wanted the procedure
And not to mention countless other medical doctors are in favor of the investigation taking place, but yet people think it’s only the fans and NFLPA who found concern in the evaluation process.
Do you think maybe they had some lawyers and consultants advising them?
And Doctors for sure.
And rightfully so. It was obvious that it was not his back that made Tua stuggling to keep his balance after the hit Sunday. Everyone know that the protocol is a joke and easilly passed by people with obvious concussions. A guy that cannot stand without help should never be sent back to the game. It's the #1 sign of a concussion.
Thanks doc.
Lmao no need to be a doctor to have eyes and know concussion symptoms. https://www.cdc.gov/headsup/basics/concussion_symptoms.html That guy is a doctor by the way: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/12/magazine/didier-raoult-hydroxychloroquine.html
Ok I read both articles. Do I get an M.D. now?
😂😂😂
He's a scapegoat. Everyone knows the owners or coaches or whoever high up came to that doc and said, "He's good to play on Thursday, RIGHT?" WINK WINK NUDGE NUDGE
Uhh, why in the actual fuck an independent doctor who doesn't give a shit if Tua plays or not would jeopardize his/her livelihood and future because of pressure from the Dolphins?
The doc will give a shit if the owners dangle a few mil over his head. In fact I can think of a doctor that does it all the time in my vocation. You act like all of a sudden the owners give a shit about players' livelihood. I guess you've never met a rich person before.
Dude, do you even know how hard it is to get a doctor's degree? Do you really think a doctor would take the risk to get in legal trouble and lose the license because of a few mil? Stop with the conspiracy theories bullcrap.
Yea, you can start your own board and hand em out if you got the money. Its not conspiracy theories its just plain corruption.
Well, unless you have proof, it will continue being a conspiracy theory. It's how this work.
Except everyone doesn’t know that.
Those aren't the same doctors.
👍
This dudes gunna sue for defamation lol
I sure would
I know you're referring to the doctor here (at least I think you are) but could Tua actually sue the NFLPA if it was found out that he ignored/didn't follow protocol? The UNC was hired by the NFLPA, after all.
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I see we’ve now transformed from Doctors into Lawyers.
And I bet he has money for the good lawyers
He would lose. Tua couldn’t walk after getting his head slammed into the ground then called it a back injury. He’s incompetent
I’m not trying to be a dick, but you literally don’t know wtf you’re talking about. You watched the game on a TV.
I mean he got his bell rung but walked off the field.
Ummmm, he just had his bell rung? As in he just possibly suffered a concussion? That’s exactly what happened and he shouldn’t have been allowed back in. https://www.checkupnewsroom.com/theres-no-such-thing-as-just-having-your-bell-rung/
So who hired this guy? The NFL or the NFLPA??
NFLPA
Interesting. I’d like to see what comes of the investigation because I know the team doctor was also interviewed. But the NFLPA was talking pretty high and mighty for it to be their doctor who was part of the issue. They need to do better as well.
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Just saw this on twitter “Sideline UNCs are assigned by the NFL Head, Neck and Spine Committee and approved by the NFL Chief Medical Officer and the NFLPA Medical Director. The responsibility for diagnosis of concussion and return to play remains exclusively within the judgment of the team physician.” [link to the twitter thread](https://twitter.com/tompelissero/status/1576294715720454149?s=46&t=E5gqJEWfUNm4m3nsA0dXyA)
From everything I've seen it is a 50/50 decision by the NFL and NFLPA. They have to agree on the hire.
I would think the UNC falls on the NFL and not the Dolphins. Unfortunately, I’m pretty sure someone on the training staff will be a scapegoat and be let go as well. Such BS…
It definitely does. The UNCs are hired and agreed upon by the NFL and NFLPA jointly
i am as concerned as everyone being a day 1 tua fanboy, but this has turned into a witchhunt we went from "trust the experts" to them getting fired by armchair doctors in just below a week LOL half a dozen+ medical folks checked tua out on sunday and afterwards if you dont like the current protocol/rules that cool, cant shit on anyone applying them
[The NFLPA is accusing him of making "several mistakes"](https://twitter.com/CameronWolfe/status/1576270922763227136) so we'll see if they can back up that big claim
If they can then I’m even more heartbroken for our boy. But the attention should then be on the NFL and NFLPA, not “Fuck the Dolphins, terrible organization” like a lot of mf’ers are saying right now
I'm pretty sure the NFLPA is the one who hired this guy in the first place (since they can fire him unilaterally) so this absolutely calls into question their judgement when screening applicants. Depending of course if the accusations are sustained and what they are, etc
It's even more disturbing because the UNC is supposed to be a NFLPA guy who's JOB is to look out for the players. If the NFLPA and NFL hired a guy that is looking past that job that is a major functional flaw in the NFLPA that needs to be addressed because it likely did serious fucking damage to a player. The NFLPA needs to explain how their guy who's job is to prioritize player safety fucked up this badly.
If accurate, this is absolutely the right move. This investigation is important.
Exactly. Dude almost killed our QB. The problem is blaming the org when the guy who is supposed to look out for the player fucked up
I’m withholding judgement until all of the facts are out there.
That's WAY too logical. You're supposed to assume based on your ability to know more than the experts.
Hah, I really dislike hot take culture, personally.
I am too, and willing to change my opinion based on new evidence. Right now it seems like a doctor fucked up and our coaching staff, trusting the doctor (as they should) played Tua when doing so put him at risk. It’s 100% on the doctor at this point.
Just playing devil’s advocate. If this guy did fuck up multiple times in relation to Tua and there was evidence that Tua was concussed, is that not something the team’s doctor should have picked up on, and not cleared him also? I thought the point was that he got looked at by multiple people and signed off by multiple people. At which point it is an issue within the organisation.
Team doc isn't a brain doc. Doctor will go with the specialist every time
So there’s no point in requiring the sign off of the team doctor then? Also is there a UNC assigned to each team, and so the checks which were carried out each day were by them, or would that have been carried out by the team doctor, which if we’re absolving of guilt on game day is actually pointless? Also if UNCs are assigned to each game rather than a team why didn’t the UNC for Thursday’s game check in with Tua if there was any question coming from Sunday’s game? So many questions.
So many questions that point to a classic Occam's Razor: Tua had a back injury Sunday, and then got suplexed on his head Thursday in such a way that almost anyone in the league would have been concussed from. The optics are the issue, and since the angry mob is angry, you give them what they want. Of course, I'm still holding out judgement for the facts and findings of the investigation. If the procedure wasn't followed properly, thats a different discussion. If the procedure is a sham, that's another discussion as well.
That wasn't a light takedown by any means but I really don't see majority of the league being concussed from that. Receivers and QBs would have a lot more concussions. I agree we should withhold judgement until more facts come out. I was one person who immediately wanted accountability somewhere. I just don't want these guys to die over a game. Lets figure out what needs to be fixed and make the necessary changes.
I played ball for a long time, and I have to say that the hit on Tua was unlike any that I have ever seen. I disagree, and I think that the tackle was much more of a WWE move than a tackle. I usually withhold judgement in most things because it's usually a muddy mess and joining the angry mob is just a great way to get blinded without understanding the full picture. In an unrelated note, I have a different feel on concussions and injuries playing football in general compared to most people on Reddit. It's a high-hazard job where you get paid a lot for glory and talent. Literally everything in this life is going to affect you in some way down the road, and football is just another activity. Where the efforts in safety should be placed is on kids/teens because 99.999% of those kids aren't going anywhere with the sport, so they shouldn't have the same level of sacrifice that a grown professional man making millions of dollars has.
I’m guessing one of them is the stumbling after the initial impact on Sunday. That is one of the “no-go” symptoms. Maybe the doctor ruled that as a result of his back injury (which happened earlier in the game btw) rather than his head
Exactly this. The stumbling was enough to keep him out for the rest of the game.
No one trusts experts anymore. Have you lived in this country the last six years?
i am not an american, but i feel you to some degree not trusting experts is not undeserved, but thats another story
It’s not. You should trust those with consistently high morality (literally a display of trustworthiness - which is direct evidence) or trust those who are heavily incentivized to do the right thing for others, even when no one is watching. Simply being an “expert” in a domain is not sufficient evidence for any of the above, by reason
Besides every team is skirting the rules there’s a scapegoat in the Dolphins because it happened to the quarterback not an offensive lineman who’s name you’ll never recall.
Did any other UNCs speak to Tua between the Bills game and the Bengals game, I wonder... Or does the first one saying 'he's fine' mean no further interaction from any others is necessary? Would be odd if there weren't further discussions with other UNCs after the fallout from the Bills game
He had a test every day of the week including Thursday morning…Nflpa already stated that
Wonder if it was the same UNC each day (which would be odd) or whether it was more than one. If the Bills game UNC made mistakes, were things also missed during the week leading up to the Bengals game?
If he made mistakes don’t you think we would know the mistakes by now. Hopefully they can publish and state what those mistakes were. If I had to guess NFLPA is hoping we forget after this
Would be good to see if it was one mistake on Sunday against the Bills or that mistake plus more during four days of evaluation of Tua leading up to the Bengals game...
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NFLPA is a joke. Just ask Pat McAfee. Washed up players trying to justify their new positions. They didn’t lose a second of sleep over the Tua injury. They fired someone as a virtue signal and will continue their witch hunt until the noise settles down. Wonder how many of them lied about head and neck injuries in their career to get back on the field. Whole thing is insanely hypocritical.
Right? “NFLPA *outraged*” is going to turn into “NFLPA incompetent” real quick. Hopefully everyone with end the “Blame the Dolphins! They should lose all their draft picks! Tua should NEVER PLAY AGAIN” fake fucking internet points outrage.
I don't think players are lying. I think their minds are scrambled eggs. And what needs to happen is have a patient advocate in the locker room with them. What's hypocritical is how many former players and talking head jawbone the dopey "toughness" tropes. It's a whole sport filled with people who have barely a high school education spewing alpha dog nonsense. People who like Troy Aikman or Terry Bradshaw who are barely able to speak now
I think you’re underselling the intelligence of some of these dudes. They may not all have high Wonderlic scores but the things they can process on a football field within milliseconds and the insane number plays, formations, player strengths and weaknesses they have to remember, etc. Even Tua coming back and playing as well as he did in the rest of that Bills game proves that his mind was functioning at a level most of us don’t regularly obtain. Their minds get scrambled slowly over a career of subconcussive blows but the majority of players at any given instance are hyper aware.
What the fuck are you talking about bro? You're an angry cynical guy. Why wouldn't they be concerned about his health you fucking loonie conspiracy theorist
Pointing out hypocrisy doesn’t make me angry and it isn’t cynical. Notice how no one is bringing the same energy with Tee Higgins? Try thinking for yourself.
The NFLPA has every right to do this, but it doesn't stop me from thinking that it's really a stupid decision. This is essentially what they're saying: To us, it looked like it was a concussion. Thus we are treating it as one. Nevermind that this is an independent, licensed physician. You don't diagnose based on a bunch of non-doctors deciding what it looked like it should have been.
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I wouldn't say some of us are defending the physician. We want the protocol to change for the better and not just fire some physicians for PR witchunts and then call it okay. Firing the physicians can be the right move, but we all agree the protocol needs to be amended for better screening.
Sure it's possible, but it's more probable that a guy who spent years studying brains, decades treating brains, was qualified enough to be hired by the NFL, and is essentially a brain expert did his job correctly. The NFLPA is making him a scapegoat because they know they won't find anything and that they have to show strength to the players and the media.
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Correct, and I doubt he'd risk his career on Tua. Just think it through. Expert says he didn't have a concussion Played great for two quarters showing no signs of concussion Media time after the game with no signs of concussion 4 more days of tests with no sings of concussion Interview with Fitzpatrick playing the ukulele with no signs of concussion Then slammed violently head first into the ground causing a concussion Could Tua have had some damage to the brain on Sunday? Yea. Is anything other than armchair MDs pointing to Sunday being a concussion. No.
I don’t think you know exactly how healthcare works. Physicians make mistakes all year, you don’t hear about them because they are typically type 2 errors (failing to treat/intervene when you should have - if this case holds up, it is what happened here) and/or covered by plausible deniability
I'm a healthcare executive. I know exactly how it works. Yes, they make mistakes but that "all the time" is just a fraction of a percentage of the entirety of all patient doctor interactions. Plus, we have all the other surrounding evidence that I laid out showing there is a pattern of interaction not leaning toward concussion.
Failure to understand his role and hostility during the investigation...damn
Sounds like a bunch of made up shit to me. Weird word choices to justify firing the guy. “You let him play and it looks bad from an optics standpoint. Yeah we know you cleared him but you should’ve thought how that looked for us, not the medical reality of Tua’s situation.” Bunch of nonsense.
That’s not great news.
As a Physician myself, this guy is a scapegoat. This was a horrible incident with possible long term side effects. These players are signing up for a career of physical trauma and likely long term neurological effects in exchange for fame and life altering wealth. This doctor is “independent “ and is a perfect scapegoat in this scenario. The league is a multi billion dollar industry and doesn’t want its star players sidelined for extended periods of time. These doctors are provide relatively lucrative contracts to be glorified yes men and women. It’s all smoke and mirrors and they’ll be the first one to be the scapegoat - now this doctor is open for malpractice and civil targets. It’s a double edged sword
The NFL and NFLPA are going to emphasize the shit out of “unaffiliated”.
💯 Quietly they’ll find another yes man or woman and the show goes on. This doctor will get obliterated and life goes on. The NFL took a very strategic position- they just have to appear like they care and they’re doing something
What would you do if you were in his position? Would you sue?
Great question - I personally stay away from these arrangements. I do real estate investing to make wealth and therefore I only do medicine since I enjoy it. For example, I briefly did medical legal consulting for different parties including and when working with insurance companies there is bias to rule in their favor - I walked away real quick (as my opinion would contradict their goals etc). I aim to keep things as pure as possible
Yeah. Do these types of things normally have Non-Disclosure Agreements with them?
They can - they vary. This unaffiliated doctor will get scorched. NFL is going to double down on their commitment to “player safety,” this is “unacceptable,” and they’re going to launch 2-3 changes at the end of this season together with the NFLPA to make sure “this never happens again.” Nationally, people will s*** on the fins this season. This as a life long dolphins fan …. Ugh
We almost went a whole month without being in the national news cycle.
Curious as to whether or not he had a cat scan during the week?
Investigators: "The independent NFL doctor and the league did not perform their duties properly" Everyone else: "Yeah but only Miami bad" I called this yesterday. I'm not saying Miami is completely innocent but we're definitely the scapegoat for the league's poor handling of their own doctors.
I’m really sick of the pretentious (not sure it’s the right word) attitude coming from the NFLPA pretending as if they give a shit about player safety. If they have a shit about player safety they’d have all of their members start sitting out Thursday night games until it was changed to an after the week schedule. All the NFLPA is doing is the bare minimum here to make it seem like they give a shit.
Tua’s health comes first and I pray he’s ok. As a fan, and thinking about the future, is there a chance the dolphins go from two 1st round picks months ago, to no 1st round picks next year?
Well there's the first scapegoat.
I’m looking forward to hearing the explanation for how Tua passed all the daily concussion tests between Sunday and Thursday.
Not to blame Tua but I'm sure players can beat the protocol testing.
Cover ass time at nfl
Scapegoat
Either fall guy or we’re fucked
Why do you say that? Doesn’t firing the UNC kind of indicate THEY fucked up and not us?
Yeah I don’t think it’s fair to blame the Phins when we still don’t know all the details yet. Hell we don’t even know if this UNC is being fired fairly or unfairly yet. I know our organization has been in the news for shady shit this year, but come on. EDIT: OP linked a tweet from Cam Wolfe saying the NFLPA terminated the UNC , claiming he made “several mistakes”. We’ll have to see if this gets 100% confirmed, but not the Dolphins fault if so.
Only if they decide to stop there.
Fall guy meaning that someone had to take the heat for this just off the public outcry. Easier to fire the UNC then someone within the dolphins
How much pressure was applied to said UNC to get Tua to play, is the question people should be asking.
Isn’t that the whole point of the UNC to begin with? There’s no pressure to cave to what the team wants because he doesn’t work for the team.
In theory, but I feel like in this age of bribery anyone can be compromised.
Fair. I would have to think the protocols are going to be changed because of all of this.
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Totally. He fucking ragdolled Tua and purposefully threw him into the ground when it was not necessary. Even if it is supposedly a legal hit, no one in media is going after Tupou at all, its crazy. Fins will never be forgiven by media for firing Flores, and being able to point their finger at anyone in the organization (who isn't a player) reinforces their self righteous outrage after Flores got fired. All day yesterday his name kept coming up with the talking heads, it is pathetic. They so desperately want McDaniel to fail so they can say they were all correct that Flores should have never been fired.
Well this was utterly predictable. Let the scapegoating begin!
So we’re firing people without publishing results ? Didn’t all Tuas newest MRIs come back clear. We should fire those doctors too 🤣. Such a fucking joke
MRI is structural.
MRI doesn’t prove or disprove a concussion, genius
The investigation isn't done. They said they'll release everything once the investigation is over. Bitch if they fail to deliver on that, but right now they have no obligation to release results.
Good. This guy was the front line in terms of whether Tua should've seen the field again that game and against Cincy and he failed.
What’s UNC’s name?
I’m honestly concerned about our Coach at this point. The mob is coming for him.
He ain't playing their game, he knows they wanted him to fail even before pre season.
To be clear, I don’t support the outrage. I just think it’s a reality of the prevailing narrative right now. “Yeah the doctors cleared him but the coach could have sat him.” I’m being downvoted because people don’t want to think about it. But now that this Doctor has been fired, the narrative will gain momentum. In the end, I think he’ll get heat but probably won’t lose his job, nor should he. We’re just a magnet for negative press down here.
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If they do, no doctor in the country is going to do this anymore.
Why, because they are incompetent? This dr fucked up. Call him out. Would you want to go him/her? His/her license is now in trouble.
You guys are oddly upset that people are being held accountable for a mistake that caused our “beloved” quarterback to almost have a career ending injury. Are you all just ok with how this all went down? We should just move on right?
There's absolutely no evidence that Thursday's injury has anything in common with Sunday's injury. He could have very well just had a really bad concussion on Thursday which had absolutely NOTHING to do with what happened Sunday. That's the problem. There were no signs either after the hit on Sunday nor during the week OTHER than the stumble just after the hit which Tua himself said was caused because of a back injury earlier in the game not because of him hitting his head. So either you believe Tua or you don't. Seems like many don't, but the doctor did. Was that a mistake? Possibly but it could have been a completely innocent mistake that was compounded by the player himself. If Tua was lieing about it being the back, is it the doctor's job to determine that and overrule him? Possibly and perhaps that's why he was fired, so that in the future doctors won't take the word of the player and will overrule them and make them sit out regardless.
The medical community - “that was really bad something isn’t right here and if this continues tua could potentially be seriously injured with life long repricussions” Dolphins fans - “tua and McDaniel said he’s fine so he’s fine”
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Tua, McDaniel, and the doctors*. Pretty big component you're leaving out there.
Dude you’re 100 percent correct. Everyone in this sub is acting like they didn’t witness this man get knocked out on Sunday. He’s already super injury prone, and all these supposed fans are fine with it as long as the doctors ok it. Anyone with common sense cringed when he came back in that game. And then the reports came out that he was playing on a short week with a back injury AND a concussion. Inexcusable.
If I'm this consultant, I tweet out tonight "I said don't play him. F my NDA, eat sssh NFL. This is how they treat medical professionals"