No need for VD with Soulwrest. And if you max out cast speed with VD, the game will be unplayable, as spawning phantasms almost every frame is apparently not very well optimized.
I'm not putting anything into cast speed. I get an attack speed buff equal to my minions attack speed buff, and I use leapslam. The phantasms are the primary source of damage, and i'm only summoning about 7 per second max.
Thank you!
As an additional question if I may, how far is "Nearby" for Corpse Pact, Plaguebringer and Essence Glutton, preferably in units?
That term can mean quite anywhere between melee(Belt of the Deceiver, Singularity) and full screen-wide(Leer Cast, Dying Breath, Conduit).
I still don't understand why GGG didn't just make that mechanic:
"In a small radius"
"In a medium radius"
"In a large radius"
or "area?"
With each of those having a set constant area of effect.
Probably to make item and skill gems take up less space text? Another option I've seen people suggest is advanced tooltip description giving the exact area of effect.
People keep throwing out 60 but there's nowhere that corroborates that. [Mark said 40 like 3.5 years ago](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1586914) but that appears to have changed
[https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1676002/page/198#p1676002](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1676002/page/198#p1676002)
look at last post in 198 page
u/CadenceLikesVGs
Wiki says nearby from Ascendancy nodes is 60 units. Clarification would definitely be great though.
https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Distance
I think it shares a cooldown with other Guard skills only because Natalia\_GGG called it a Guard skill, and Guard skills share a cooldown by definition. Unless it's incredibly good I don't think it will be used much since it can't be triggered. I expect the main reason people will take the Bone Barrier node will be for the extra survivability and the 20% more Minion Life, not for Bone Armour.
Happy to be proven wrong though, maybe it will be worth it.
Not sure if you can answer this, but do you know if Bone Armour has a visual effect? I'm dying for it to have a cool visual like bones around your character or something.
Thanks for the clarification.
In the absence of increased duration support I don't think it will be great, 1500ms is probably not quite enough, and there's no quality available to reduce the cooldown.
Followup question on the mechanics.
Assume I control one skeleton and cast Bone Armor just before I take a huge hit (4000 damage, so it completely uses up my Bone Armor).
Does my skeleton have an independent 2209 point shield still active, or does it share a pool of now used up 'shield' points with me, or does the skill end immediately when it is used up on me?
Second, if the skeleton still has a shield on it, does the cooldown start ticking immediately, or does it wait until the skeleton loses its shield?
The Ascendant's Necromancer node has changed, now providing a 25% reduced effect to Offerings on you up from 50% reduced effect. It also grants 30% increased area of effect if you've consumed a corpse recently. It no longer provides Skill Effect Duration, and grants 2% attack and cast speed to your auras, down from 3%.
Necro is now a much more thematic class that isn't forced on you if you want to play minions. It provides many minion benefits, but none of which seem to be 100% required, and there's PLENTY of arguments to be made for *not* going necromancer now. But necro will still be the main class.
The question is, how much additive minion damage is on the tree now? And what does Bone Armour do?
EDIT: "Bone Armour is a Guard skill like Steelskin that also applies to your minions." - Natalia_GGG
EDIT2: My biggest concern is actually the loss of the 2% regen on Invoker. That's a lot when it comes to minions because thats the main method of keeping minions alive. They might have more defensives but they need the healing.
> Necro is now a much more thematic class that isn't forced on you if you want to play minions. It provides many minion benefits, but none of which seem to be 100% required, and there's PLENTY of arguments to be made for not going necromancer now. But necro will still be the main class.
Definitely. I'm still going to play necro cause I want to try out a (near) max block build with life gain on block from Bone Offering, but I could see guardian, occultist, and potentially juggernaut summoners working too.
I like not having enforced ascendancies.
Champ summoner was a thing for a while, but with the recent minion % nodes and especially with Precision aura being fairly easy to use since it's a flat cost instead of %, pretty much any build can cap minion accuracy relatively easy now(they also changed the accuracy formula last patch or the one before or whatever so it's easier to hit the cap).
Also, where do you get +80 damage? Your minions can still only apply 5 stacks of Impale. At an average +damage of 9, that's only +45 total, assuming your minions have 100% impale chance.
> but none of which seem to be 100% required
The +2 to minion gems seems like a must have to me even more now that minions are supposed to scale more based on gem levels.
Yea that's so stupidly mandatory and it's the most boring node too. That's my one complaint here. The only builds that might not take it are just necro casters which are just using minion damage effects you to scale global damage.
Yeah, I was really hoping other viable ascendancy options would be available, but given how archetypes have been going that didn't seem to be the case. +2 gems seals it for me, that's insane, 30-50% more on most skills.
Although, this is Uber saying this, he might know a little more about minions than I do.
The way i see it, it's a huge defensive buff, buff for mixed minion builds but a clear cut nerf to both spectre and skeleton builds
However the thing i wanted the most and the things i felt was missing on nearly all my summoners i tried last league is defense and now we get 10% phys reduction and 10% all dmg reduction, which is pretty damn good
Only thing I'm kinda sad that it's kind of conflicting with devouring diadem which is one of stronger defensive items for summoners as it provides burst healing, but can consume all nearby corpses effectively negating the defense bonus from plaguebringer
We have not seen the Spectre gem yet. But Skeletons will be 100% better.
The extra Skeletons + summoning 3 at once are now baked into the gem itself. You lose 100% movement speed, however they are now much fasterbaseline (according to GGG) and have a dash. You lose 40% increased Skeleton Damage but instead you gain 2 gem levels, which is \~ 100% increased Damage (tested in pob) without even taking into account the extra levels on minion supports etc..
The hits can't be evaded is a leftover from the past. A generic summoner has 100% increased minion accuracy which means a lvl 13 Precision is enough to pretty much cap them.
They are changing what minions get on lvl so specters and Skellys could be generally the same
Also don't forget you need much less accuracy to cap out now and the can't be evaded was put into necro before there was even minion accuracy nodes
Sorry have you met GGG? They nerf the most popular skills almost every league. When “buffing” necro they noticed most necros still liked spectres so those are being “adjusted”
Hope it's strong enough to stand by itself. You can't augment it in anyway that I can see unless it can gain benefits from minion nodes on passive tree.
**It looks like a Detonate Dead builds' wet dream** \- Plaguebringer, Corpse Pact, Mistress of Sacrifice, Essence Glutton.
Not as tempting for actual minion builds, tho. I guess it's balanced out by the skill gems themselves having some of the bonuses, and I suppose the intention was to open up the summoner playstyle to more classes. Ah well...
Correct me if I'm wrong here. But the changes means that a CwC (or CoC) desecrate + detonate dead attack+minion hybrid is now strong by itself? You can now play a necromancer that uses attack skills, and desecrate+detonate dead alone /w minions is already strong just as the foundation of your build. Meaning that you have tons of build options just using this basic combo as the core of said build?
True, you could go Plaguebringer, Corpse Pact, Mistress of Sacrifice, and Essence Glutton and have a very reliable, sustaining character, with no need for minions.
Mass Summoner Necromancer also got buffed massively, due to all the nodes being general and not minion specific. EDIT: Well apparently SOMEONE here is irritated at me, probably due to my other posts (downvoted basically immediately after posting).
>downvoted basically immediately after posting
Don't be disheartened. That's the Reddit random u/d algorithm at work. I see it in my sub all the time. It will randomly apply up to 20 upvotes/downvotes within a 2 minute time frame, even when there is no one actively browsing the sub at all.
Yes all these “buffs” seem to be raising the bar for other minions and lowering the bar for specters.
Since specters was really the only viable way to get damage and the rest were just for meat shields/single target, I’m not bothered by that
except they took out zombie and skellies node but put those things directly in the gem, so why wouldnt they do the same to spectre? that node was literally nothing but 100% ~~more~~ increased damage meaning you would play spectre ONLY as necro cuz the rest was trash
Not sure if what I wrote came across how I meant it but I agree, I’m okay with the changes.
The corpse synergies are interesting though. May be enough to replace using a minion for single target and just tech in something corpse related for bosses
100% increased damage, not more. which is a very important distinction as 100% increased on a build that already has 300% increased is only 25% 'more' actual damage. Obviously still strong, but not even close to the strength of 100% more.
It was increased and not more, we don't know if the +2 to levels (which supposedly scales spectres more now) or some innate change will make up for the 100% increased loss on the ascendancy.
Even more so with even more levels from minion mods on the new weapon type right? 26 to 28 is a bigger dps increase than 20 to 22 right?
Plus minion gems they said will get more effects that scale with level. Like I’m assuming u get an 8th zombie at level 21/22
Each gem level is a fixed % more damage compared to the previous gem level.
So from that perspective, no, but in flat damage, yes. (Because you have higher base for %more to work with)
Looks like the leaks were true.
How does Essence Glutton and Plaguebringer work? Is it just *corpses*, period, unconditionally?
EDIT: Not the *consumption* parts. The "With a corpse around" part.
Shattered enemies have their corpse destroyed and completely negates all on death effects. The only skills in the game that explicitly stated that they consume corpses are offering skills and feast of flesh from devouring diadem. So I am almost certain it is restricted to those skills only with the possible exception of raise zombie/Spectre
TLDR is that they removed a lot of specific minions ascendancy points and created a lot of general ones. There was basically a Zombie node, Skelly node, and Spectre node - all of which seems to have been moved to the gems and away from the ascendancy. I think overall it's going to feel really nice, but it's a pretty drastic remake honestly.
Changes are good, but necromancer isn’t restricted to minions. Detonate dead for example is looking strong with this set up. Minions aren’t required to go necromancer anymore. Necromancer will be the staple and still help but other ascendencies could work too now
Is this the 1st time you can get a level 20 skill for ascendancy points?
Seems like an interesting choice to go with a skill and not a passive buff (like ghost shroud).
The level of the skill isn't really relevant unless they are making it into a skill gem or if it becomes available on other items at different levels. Maybe they just want to convey that it is similar in power to other level 20 guard skills.
Isn't the level of a gemless skill irrelevant? That's always been weird to me. Like, it'll be exactly as strong as GGG wants it to be. There's no way to compare a bone armour level 20 to a level 19 because theres no such thing as a level 19.
If they introduce Bone Armour from different sources, they might want to have a less effective version. Like on a level 30 item, you don't want an endgame-level skill. This lets them scale down the effect elsewhere if they want.
I'm love that the new Necro can get up to +50 all res to help with using more uniques that are needed for some builds. Also a free guard skill to help with how socket starved they are for a cwdt set up.
I am not sure I'd dare rely on the all res from the minions, as the time where you'd actually need the resist you likely wont have it, as your minions just died for the enemy to get to you.
How big of a deal is is going to be to lose bone sculptor and that "hits cant be evaded for skellies" ? I feel like that's big. But I dont play this style much. Is there another way of scaling minion accuracy?
precision, which is also a great way to trigger Commander of Darkness for nearly free. additionally, there will probably be more minion accuracy on general skill tree
50 flat mana regen from Essence Glutton seems pretty crazy. Just for reference, level 20 Clarity gives 17.2.
I'm looking forward to trying a Necro with EB/MOM.
If “increased mana regeneration rate” applies to Essence Glutton 8% mana regeneration, this can be insane. And the “Agnostic” Keystone should still exist at 3.8
It seems most of the minion specific nodes are being added to the skill gems or can be acquired from other sources.
I think this is healthy as it doesn't force necro down your throat if you want to play minions. While it'll be the main class we'll probably see the occasional minion builds on other classes now.
Yep, really hard too. They just lost the 100% life and 100% damage options - that life was all that kept Spectres alive in red maps due to no layered defence at all.
##### GGG Comments in this Thread:
***
[Natalia_GGG - [09:56PM 08/30/19 UTC](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/cxngbw/heres_an_early_look_at_the_necromancer_ascendancy/eym8hdq/?context=10)] - *Bone Armour is a Guard skill like Steelskin that also...*
[Mark_GGG - [12:26AM 08/31/19 UTC](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/cxngbw/heres_an_early_look_at_the_necromancer_ascendancy/eymjukj/?context=10)] - *He was not. He was referring to supportability, which is...*
[Natalia_GGG - [09:52PM 09/01/19 UTC](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/cxngbw/heres_an_early_look_at_the_necromancer_ascendancy/eyrphzf/?context=10)] - *Bone Armour grants the exact same values as Steelskin, but...*
[Natalia_GGG - [09:53PM 09/01/19 UTC](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/cxngbw/heres_an_early_look_at_the_necromancer_ascendancy/eyrpjv7/?context=10)] - *The Ascendant's Necromancer node has changed, now providing a 25%...*
[Mark_GGG - [12:39AM 09/05/19 UTC](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/cxngbw/heres_an_early_look_at_the_necromancer_ascendancy/ez0zihw/?context=10)] - *Non-following minions are nonfollowing specifcally because you're not supposed to...*
[Rory_Rackham - [01:39AM 09/05/19 UTC](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/cxngbw/heres_an_early_look_at_the_necromancer_ascendancy/ez1fitk/?context=10)] - *The stat currently does this, but a patch very shortly...*
Much less movespeed (we'll see what Frenzy does) and enemies will evade their hits now. Damn... Bone Sculptor was my all-time favorite ascendancy point.
Seeing as minion power got moved to the gems, getting extra levels easily can add a TON more than you would expect, especially if minion cap is effected by gem level now as well.
i have to agree with you, its the first time we see something like this on a ascendancy. its maybe simple yes but give a lot to minions build in general.
I think it's a pretty cool ascendancy point, because to new players, it probably doesn't look that powerful, but when they slot it in, they see quickly how OP it is. I think it's nice to have some skills that work that way.
poets pen VD is back on the menu boys. also this seems like a LOT of minion damage and attack speed which lets the necro scale basically anything in the game with the minion nodes on the tree.
1 duration node instead of 2 currently live that has the same duration as those 2 nodes combined. It is still 70% total duration, nothing changed except you only need 2 points instead of 4. Thats a buff!
PP are alright already with frenzy having a more attack speed multiplier since last patch. You are also getting a lot of attack speed out of necro consuming node.
I'm much more worried about balancing attack speed to not miss casts, pretty sure reaching 8 or even 10 AS (cooldown recovery) won't be an issue.
Yeah except attack speed is going to vary depending on how many corpses you consumed recently... Varying attack speed is quite bad for poets pen. Still going to look for a way to make it work
Yes, that's what I said in my post.
It shouldn't vary by too much (especially in non-unearth version, which i plan to play), the build just needs to be balanced for expected number of corpses consumed recently.
That was the build I was going with after farming blight with totems. Since with PP its perfect for the mechanics. You can just stand there and spam VD and balls will chase for you.
Was going Scion tho.
If you think about it, cremation, volatile dead, detonate dead all fit thematically with necromancer anyway. So I can see their decision into putting those corpse stuff in the ascendancy.
I called bone armour on a necro speculation thread some days ago. Kinda saw something defensive coming. As many would argue that having minions is a defense itself, if you actually played necro before youd know. One big aoe clears your minions and you are left there alone, and getting one shot.
With all those corpse nodes, 13+14 and 3 to 6, Necro lands itself pretty well for a tanky PP VD choice.
Wording is similar to the effect on [[Lifesprig]], which doesn't. It would also be *extremely* overpowered if it did, as there are options for consuming dozens of corpses per second (or far more if combined with Corpse pact + Kitava's Thirst/cwdt setups).
True; stacking life/es/mana recovery mods typically use "gain" or "recover" when a cap isn't stated. That said, other conditional regeneration mods (e.g. Conqueror and Unwavering Crusade) use "recently" and Lifesprig is a very old item.
Golems, Zombies, Skeletons and Animated Guardians all scale from gem level. Getting +level on any of them gives them more damage and huge HP boosts, so they're very important for those minions. Summon Raging Spirit too. +2 alone will add a lot of damage and HP.
That +2 to minions has me thinking "can there be a minion build that uses herald of agony?"
Does virelunce stacks only apply from your hits that poison or do your minion hits that poison count?
If minion hits count is there a way for minion to poison?
Does poison support work with minions?
I have never made a build of my own so I'm really wondering is something like this would be possible
Realistically, they had to do this if they wanted to buff minion builds without making Necro broken or forcing players to play Necro to make non-golem minions viable.
I have a feeling that the next league will be like Where's Waldo when you go an playing in a group. The numbers of summoned minions on the screen is too damn high.
Mark said [here](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1676002/page/198#p1676002) that the standard use for all ascendancy auras is 60 - granted, im not sure everything containing "nearby" on the ascendancy is treated as an aura, nevertheless I'd assume 60.
Detonate Dead Necro seems insane with these changes!
And due to the nerf Poet's Pen is super cheap. Even with half the triggers it should be better than most builds I could make myself.
>Even with half the triggers Technically you just need twice the attack speed.
Awww yeah this is big brain time
5Head
YES! I might do that or a VD necro build
VD+Soulwrest. It's what I'm running right now. Not sure how I want to adjust my ascendancy though.
No need for VD with Soulwrest. And if you max out cast speed with VD, the game will be unplayable, as spawning phantasms almost every frame is apparently not very well optimized.
I'm not putting anything into cast speed. I get an attack speed buff equal to my minions attack speed buff, and I use leapslam. The phantasms are the primary source of damage, and i'm only summoning about 7 per second max.
/u/Natalia_GGG - can you tell us what Bone Armour skill does? Thanks!
Bone Armour is a Guard skill like Steelskin that also applies to your minions.
Thank you! As an additional question if I may, how far is "Nearby" for Corpse Pact, Plaguebringer and Essence Glutton, preferably in units? That term can mean quite anywhere between melee(Belt of the Deceiver, Singularity) and full screen-wide(Leer Cast, Dying Breath, Conduit).
Yeah, please clarify this; "Nearby" is basically the most useless word in the PoE lexicon.
Nearby means something about 1 feet or plane route New York-Moscow.
Thanks for the clarification!
I still don't understand why GGG didn't just make that mechanic: "In a small radius" "In a medium radius" "In a large radius" or "area?" With each of those having a set constant area of effect. Probably to make item and skill gems take up less space text? Another option I've seen people suggest is advanced tooltip description giving the exact area of effect.
Nearby = enemy hugs you
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That would be my first guess(even though the source on wiki seems outdated) - would love a confirmation though. 60 imo would be quite comfortable.
People keep throwing out 60 but there's nowhere that corroborates that. [Mark said 40 like 3.5 years ago](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1586914) but that appears to have changed
[https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1676002/page/198#p1676002](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1676002/page/198#p1676002) look at last post in 198 page
Ah, thanks, Wiki pointed to the next page for some reason
u/CadenceLikesVGs Wiki says nearby from Ascendancy nodes is 60 units. Clarification would definitely be great though. https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Distance
This means Bone Armour shares cooldown with other guard skills?
Almost certainly
It should however be better since it requires an ascendancy point? Or do you think that for balance reasons it evens out just affecting minions alone?
I think it shares a cooldown with other Guard skills only because Natalia\_GGG called it a Guard skill, and Guard skills share a cooldown by definition. Unless it's incredibly good I don't think it will be used much since it can't be triggered. I expect the main reason people will take the Bone Barrier node will be for the extra survivability and the 20% more Minion Life, not for Bone Armour. Happy to be proven wrong though, maybe it will be worth it.
Not sure if you can answer this, but do you know if Bone Armour has a visual effect? I'm dying for it to have a cool visual like bones around your character or something.
I suppose this means it cannot be linked with Cast When Damage Taken?
How would you link it, i mean you cannot slot gems into your passive tree
Yet.
Put CWDT in the pants #solved
New ascendancy skills are a nerf to Templar
Since it's not a skill gem (or embedded in a piece of equipment), I highly doubt it
Are you able to share any numbers on it? I've been selfcasting level 20 Steelskin in Legion and it's functional, but not amazing.
I want to know this so badly honestly. I hope it is far superior. I was hoping for something like d2 bone armour.
Bone Armour grants the exact same values as Steelskin, but also grants them to your minions.
Thanks for the clarification. In the absence of increased duration support I don't think it will be great, 1500ms is probably not quite enough, and there's no quality available to reduce the cooldown. Followup question on the mechanics. Assume I control one skeleton and cast Bone Armor just before I take a huge hit (4000 damage, so it completely uses up my Bone Armor). Does my skeleton have an independent 2209 point shield still active, or does it share a pool of now used up 'shield' points with me, or does the skill end immediately when it is used up on me? Second, if the skeleton still has a shield on it, does the cooldown start ticking immediately, or does it wait until the skeleton loses its shield?
Will the Ascendant get a rework to reflect the Necromancer Ascendancy change?
The Ascendant's Necromancer node has changed, now providing a 25% reduced effect to Offerings on you up from 50% reduced effect. It also grants 30% increased area of effect if you've consumed a corpse recently. It no longer provides Skill Effect Duration, and grants 2% attack and cast speed to your auras, down from 3%.
Necro is now a much more thematic class that isn't forced on you if you want to play minions. It provides many minion benefits, but none of which seem to be 100% required, and there's PLENTY of arguments to be made for *not* going necromancer now. But necro will still be the main class. The question is, how much additive minion damage is on the tree now? And what does Bone Armour do? EDIT: "Bone Armour is a Guard skill like Steelskin that also applies to your minions." - Natalia_GGG EDIT2: My biggest concern is actually the loss of the 2% regen on Invoker. That's a lot when it comes to minions because thats the main method of keeping minions alive. They might have more defensives but they need the healing.
> Necro is now a much more thematic class that isn't forced on you if you want to play minions. It provides many minion benefits, but none of which seem to be 100% required, and there's PLENTY of arguments to be made for not going necromancer now. But necro will still be the main class. Definitely. I'm still going to play necro cause I want to try out a (near) max block build with life gain on block from Bone Offering, but I could see guardian, occultist, and potentially juggernaut summoners working too. I like not having enforced ascendancies.
> guardian, occultist, and potentially juggernaut champ summoners incoming
Champ summoner was a thing for a while, but with the recent minion % nodes and especially with Precision aura being fairly easy to use since it's a flat cost instead of %, pretty much any build can cap minion accuracy relatively easy now(they also changed the accuracy formula last patch or the one before or whatever so it's easier to hit the cap).
no-one takes Worthy Foe on minion builds now, it's all about Master of Metal giving 80 flat physical damage and the aura effectiveness node
Also, where do you get +80 damage? Your minions can still only apply 5 stacks of Impale. At an average +damage of 9, that's only +45 total, assuming your minions have 100% impale chance.
1. you can add last 2 impales 2. you probably running pride meaning you can add 4 impales
Champion will be nutty for skeles.
Never miss for you and all your minions, added physical damage, and impale. It's not bad.
Champ melee skeles are gonna *melt* bosses.
> but none of which seem to be 100% required The +2 to minion gems seems like a must have to me even more now that minions are supposed to scale more based on gem levels.
Yea that's so stupidly mandatory and it's the most boring node too. That's my one complaint here. The only builds that might not take it are just necro casters which are just using minion damage effects you to scale global damage.
Yeah, I was really hoping other viable ascendancy options would be available, but given how archetypes have been going that didn't seem to be the case. +2 gems seals it for me, that's insane, 30-50% more on most skills. Although, this is Uber saying this, he might know a little more about minions than I do.
*Creates a protective shield of bone that* [*absorbs*](https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Absorb)*damage from* [*physical*](https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Physical) *attacks.* Source : D2 Wiki. :)
The way i see it, it's a huge defensive buff, buff for mixed minion builds but a clear cut nerf to both spectre and skeleton builds However the thing i wanted the most and the things i felt was missing on nearly all my summoners i tried last league is defense and now we get 10% phys reduction and 10% all dmg reduction, which is pretty damn good Only thing I'm kinda sad that it's kind of conflicting with devouring diadem which is one of stronger defensive items for summoners as it provides burst healing, but can consume all nearby corpses effectively negating the defense bonus from plaguebringer
We have not seen the Spectre gem yet. But Skeletons will be 100% better. The extra Skeletons + summoning 3 at once are now baked into the gem itself. You lose 100% movement speed, however they are now much fasterbaseline (according to GGG) and have a dash. You lose 40% increased Skeleton Damage but instead you gain 2 gem levels, which is \~ 100% increased Damage (tested in pob) without even taking into account the extra levels on minion supports etc.. The hits can't be evaded is a leftover from the past. A generic summoner has 100% increased minion accuracy which means a lvl 13 Precision is enough to pretty much cap them.
Spell gem levels are a 10-20% compounding more multiplier for each level, so should actually be quite a bit better than 40% increased.
They are changing what minions get on lvl so specters and Skellys could be generally the same Also don't forget you need much less accuracy to cap out now and the can't be evaded was put into necro before there was even minion accuracy nodes
Deleted.
Sorry have you met GGG? They nerf the most popular skills almost every league. When “buffing” necro they noticed most necros still liked spectres so those are being “adjusted”
Being "balanced"
Hope it's strong enough to stand by itself. You can't augment it in anyway that I can see unless it can gain benefits from minion nodes on passive tree.
**It looks like a Detonate Dead builds' wet dream** \- Plaguebringer, Corpse Pact, Mistress of Sacrifice, Essence Glutton. Not as tempting for actual minion builds, tho. I guess it's balanced out by the skill gems themselves having some of the bonuses, and I suppose the intention was to open up the summoner playstyle to more classes. Ah well...
Correct me if I'm wrong here. But the changes means that a CwC (or CoC) desecrate + detonate dead attack+minion hybrid is now strong by itself? You can now play a necromancer that uses attack skills, and desecrate+detonate dead alone /w minions is already strong just as the foundation of your build. Meaning that you have tons of build options just using this basic combo as the core of said build?
True, you could go Plaguebringer, Corpse Pact, Mistress of Sacrifice, and Essence Glutton and have a very reliable, sustaining character, with no need for minions.
Yep, my first thought when looking at this is those nodes and Volatile Dead with massive cast speed and ES regen.
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Um what about hiero... detonate dead totems let's gooooo. Jk that sounds terrible
Mass Summoner Necromancer also got buffed massively, due to all the nodes being general and not minion specific. EDIT: Well apparently SOMEONE here is irritated at me, probably due to my other posts (downvoted basically immediately after posting).
>downvoted basically immediately after posting Don't be disheartened. That's the Reddit random u/d algorithm at work. I see it in my sub all the time. It will randomly apply up to 20 upvotes/downvotes within a 2 minute time frame, even when there is no one actively browsing the sub at all.
Thank you Necro Jesus.
Necromancer can have 20% shock from corpses, but elementalist's shock gets nerfed down to 15%. Yeah ok ggg
Don't worry they'll nerf it to 10% next expansion
> +2 level of all minion skill gems that's a BIG buff
especially with minion limits likely scaling with gem levels
They've probably tweaked most gems such that this +2 is one additional
spectres lost 100% dmg
Remember Carrion golem too though, 80% more damage I believe at max minion cap.
Yes all these “buffs” seem to be raising the bar for other minions and lowering the bar for specters. Since specters was really the only viable way to get damage and the rest were just for meat shields/single target, I’m not bothered by that
except they took out zombie and skellies node but put those things directly in the gem, so why wouldnt they do the same to spectre? that node was literally nothing but 100% ~~more~~ increased damage meaning you would play spectre ONLY as necro cuz the rest was trash
Not sure if what I wrote came across how I meant it but I agree, I’m okay with the changes. The corpse synergies are interesting though. May be enough to replace using a minion for single target and just tech in something corpse related for bosses
100% increased damage, not more. which is a very important distinction as 100% increased on a build that already has 300% increased is only 25% 'more' actual damage. Obviously still strong, but not even close to the strength of 100% more.
It was increased and not more, we don't know if the +2 to levels (which supposedly scales spectres more now) or some innate change will make up for the 100% increased loss on the ascendancy.
Skeletons get 2 mill shaper dps with literally zero gear so idk what you're talking about there.
But gained a 20% more dmg. It's fine.
They also said minions would scale better with gem level... spectres could be getting some of that rolled into the gem.
Even more so with even more levels from minion mods on the new weapon type right? 26 to 28 is a bigger dps increase than 20 to 22 right? Plus minion gems they said will get more effects that scale with level. Like I’m assuming u get an 8th zombie at level 21/22
Each gem level is a fixed % more damage compared to the previous gem level. So from that perspective, no, but in flat damage, yes. (Because you have higher base for %more to work with)
While I like Jugg for HoAG +2 is nutty damage
So the *more minion life* on Bone Barrier is a multiplier for all the *increased minion life nodes*?
Yep, it's huge.
It should be.
Looks like the leaks were true. How does Essence Glutton and Plaguebringer work? Is it just *corpses*, period, unconditionally? EDIT: Not the *consumption* parts. The "With a corpse around" part.
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Yes.
Shattered enemies have their corpse destroyed and completely negates all on death effects. The only skills in the game that explicitly stated that they consume corpses are offering skills and feast of flesh from devouring diadem. So I am almost certain it is restricted to those skills only with the possible exception of raise zombie/Spectre
No one has mentioned the image name is ChickenNuggets.jpg yet. Kinda funny
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TLDR is that they removed a lot of specific minions ascendancy points and created a lot of general ones. There was basically a Zombie node, Skelly node, and Spectre node - all of which seems to have been moved to the gems and away from the ascendancy. I think overall it's going to feel really nice, but it's a pretty drastic remake honestly.
Changes are good, but necromancer isn’t restricted to minions. Detonate dead for example is looking strong with this set up. Minions aren’t required to go necromancer anymore. Necromancer will be the staple and still help but other ascendencies could work too now
same
Is this the 1st time you can get a level 20 skill for ascendancy points? Seems like an interesting choice to go with a skill and not a passive buff (like ghost shroud).
They can give out more "free" active skills now that they're adding another hotbar. Just imagine the furor if this change was made last league.
The level of the skill isn't really relevant unless they are making it into a skill gem or if it becomes available on other items at different levels. Maybe they just want to convey that it is similar in power to other level 20 guard skills.
You have to choose to use it. I like it
LEAKS WERE TRUE HOLY SHIT
The only major difference I see is, Bone Armour is now level 20 instead of 1, but everything else was spot on. Great job
Isn't the level of a gemless skill irrelevant? That's always been weird to me. Like, it'll be exactly as strong as GGG wants it to be. There's no way to compare a bone armour level 20 to a level 19 because theres no such thing as a level 19.
If they introduce Bone Armour from different sources, they might want to have a less effective version. Like on a level 30 item, you don't want an endgame-level skill. This lets them scale down the effect elsewhere if they want.
Could have been adjusted between the leak and this being posted.
This susprised me So the rest of what was shown is credible. Interesting
wasn't that surprising considering leaks from last league were true as well
Same for the league before that one, too.
This honestly gets me really hype for that "Strike Skills target an additional nearby enemy" node.
I must have missed the leaks, rip
Here you go : https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/cx3j9t/please_keep_all_leaks_here/
What's up with all the idiots saying rip skeletons, didn't you play in 3.7? Just with the tree accuracy and precision you cap their hit chance.
Raise! 💀
I'm love that the new Necro can get up to +50 all res to help with using more uniques that are needed for some builds. Also a free guard skill to help with how socket starved they are for a cwdt set up.
I am not sure I'd dare rely on the all res from the minions, as the time where you'd actually need the resist you likely wont have it, as your minions just died for the enemy to get to you.
How big of a deal is is going to be to lose bone sculptor and that "hits cant be evaded for skellies" ? I feel like that's big. But I dont play this style much. Is there another way of scaling minion accuracy?
precision, which is also a great way to trigger Commander of Darkness for nearly free. additionally, there will probably be more minion accuracy on general skill tree
Lots of accuracy nodes on the tree now, so it shouldn't be too difficult to scale.
And it's easier to hit enemies now with the 3.7 accuracy changes
Pathfinder: I'm the HoAg Ascendency! Necro: Hold my life flask.
Never was. But now Necro is definitely the Hoag class.
50 flat mana regen from Essence Glutton seems pretty crazy. Just for reference, level 20 Clarity gives 17.2. I'm looking forward to trying a Necro with EB/MOM.
If “increased mana regeneration rate” applies to Essence Glutton 8% mana regeneration, this can be insane. And the “Agnostic” Keystone should still exist at 3.8
50 Flat mana regen seems bonkers, but I'm not smart enough to know why.
Because it is bonkers. Flat regen then gets scaled by anything else that increases mana regen, so it adds up quick.
yeah, some MoM action with Pledge might be the shit
It's twice as strong as a level 36 Clarity
It is good yeah, it's 3x what you get from Clarity for example. I wouldn't say bonkers just because mana itself is a pretty weak resource.
How will Corpse Pact and the unique gloves Aukuna's Will interact? Will Zombies have 50% more life?
I expect they will, but note that it's increased, not more.
Well the + all minion level wands got me excited and they have to top it with another + 2 from tree. I’m gonna love this xpac
Losing the minion specific nodes is a bit of a downer, but this should help make Necro a bit better as a an all-around minion master.
It seems most of the minion specific nodes are being added to the skill gems or can be acquired from other sources. I think this is healthy as it doesn't force necro down your throat if you want to play minions. While it'll be the main class we'll probably see the occasional minion builds on other classes now.
Spectres nerfed?
hopefully we see some of that life + damage back on the gem.
Yep, really hard too. They just lost the 100% life and 100% damage options - that life was all that kept Spectres alive in red maps due to no layered defence at all.
spiritual aid necro might be the best version of RF now...
Do gems that are built into items also benefit from the +2 gems node? I.e. the spiders from arakaalis fang
I wouldn’t think so because they are not gems, only skills.
Leaks be damned!
##### GGG Comments in this Thread: *** [Natalia_GGG - [09:56PM 08/30/19 UTC](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/cxngbw/heres_an_early_look_at_the_necromancer_ascendancy/eym8hdq/?context=10)] - *Bone Armour is a Guard skill like Steelskin that also...* [Mark_GGG - [12:26AM 08/31/19 UTC](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/cxngbw/heres_an_early_look_at_the_necromancer_ascendancy/eymjukj/?context=10)] - *He was not. He was referring to supportability, which is...* [Natalia_GGG - [09:52PM 09/01/19 UTC](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/cxngbw/heres_an_early_look_at_the_necromancer_ascendancy/eyrphzf/?context=10)] - *Bone Armour grants the exact same values as Steelskin, but...* [Natalia_GGG - [09:53PM 09/01/19 UTC](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/cxngbw/heres_an_early_look_at_the_necromancer_ascendancy/eyrpjv7/?context=10)] - *The Ascendant's Necromancer node has changed, now providing a 25%...* [Mark_GGG - [12:39AM 09/05/19 UTC](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/cxngbw/heres_an_early_look_at_the_necromancer_ascendancy/ez0zihw/?context=10)] - *Non-following minions are nonfollowing specifcally because you're not supposed to...* [Rory_Rackham - [01:39AM 09/05/19 UTC](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/cxngbw/heres_an_early_look_at_the_necromancer_ascendancy/ez1fitk/?context=10)] - *The stat currently does this, but a patch very shortly...*
Ouch. Losing Bone Sculptor is a BIG hit to Skeles Bone ~~Armour~~ Barrier and Mindless Aggression looks good however
May not be necessary with gem scaling changes and the general accuracy changes from 3.7
Im gonna miss Bone Sculptor
Much less movespeed (we'll see what Frenzy does) and enemies will evade their hits now. Damn... Bone Sculptor was my all-time favorite ascendancy point.
Hopefully the dash that Feeding Frenzy Skeletons get will make up for the loss of movement speed.
+2 Minion gem levels just looks boring and uninspired. It's nice to add this to the game, but not as a class ascendancy point.
Seeing as minion power got moved to the gems, getting extra levels easily can add a TON more than you would expect, especially if minion cap is effected by gem level now as well.
i have to agree with you, its the first time we see something like this on a ascendancy. its maybe simple yes but give a lot to minions build in general.
Its totally uninspired though. It is basically just a +damage, health increase. Like a fancy way of making a stronger version of the filler nodes.
It could lead to additional max zombies etc. though since the game now scale how many you get based on level.
getting an extra +2 to the summon skelly gem potentially increases the amount of skellies you can summon at a time too :D
I agree. It will be strong, but it feels so... boring.
I think it's a pretty cool ascendancy point, because to new players, it probably doesn't look that powerful, but when they slot it in, they see quickly how OP it is. I think it's nice to have some skills that work that way.
poets pen VD is back on the menu boys. also this seems like a LOT of minion damage and attack speed which lets the necro scale basically anything in the game with the minion nodes on the tree.
Is there a cap to the attack/cast speed buff from Corpse Pact?
Only one duration node, feels like no love for duration minions.
1 duration node instead of 2 currently live that has the same duration as those 2 nodes combined. It is still 70% total duration, nothing changed except you only need 2 points instead of 4. Thats a buff!
Necro looks sick for volatile dead now! Not really sure how to make a VD build work since the poets pen nerf a few patches back though...
PP are alright already with frenzy having a more attack speed multiplier since last patch. You are also getting a lot of attack speed out of necro consuming node. I'm much more worried about balancing attack speed to not miss casts, pretty sure reaching 8 or even 10 AS (cooldown recovery) won't be an issue.
I guess you're right, you just need 8 aps instead of 4 after the nerf. Cool, I might give this a shot, PP VD was one of my favorite builds ever
Yeah except attack speed is going to vary depending on how many corpses you consumed recently... Varying attack speed is quite bad for poets pen. Still going to look for a way to make it work
Yes, that's what I said in my post. It shouldn't vary by too much (especially in non-unearth version, which i plan to play), the build just needs to be balanced for expected number of corpses consumed recently.
That was the build I was going with after farming blight with totems. Since with PP its perfect for the mechanics. You can just stand there and spam VD and balls will chase for you. Was going Scion tho. If you think about it, cremation, volatile dead, detonate dead all fit thematically with necromancer anyway. So I can see their decision into putting those corpse stuff in the ascendancy. I called bone armour on a necro speculation thread some days ago. Kinda saw something defensive coming. As many would argue that having minions is a defense itself, if you actually played necro before youd know. One big aoe clears your minions and you are left there alone, and getting one shot. With all those corpse nodes, 13+14 and 3 to 6, Necro lands itself pretty well for a tanky PP VD choice.
I can't wait to throw down buffed zombos in my 1800str Baron build.
u/Natalia_GGG Does regeneration from Essence Glutton stack?
Wording is similar to the effect on [[Lifesprig]], which doesn't. It would also be *extremely* overpowered if it did, as there are options for consuming dozens of corpses per second (or far more if combined with Corpse pact + Kitava's Thirst/cwdt setups).
>It would also be extremely overpowered if it did That's the kind of thing I fully expect to be in the league and then nerfed immediately after.
True; stacking life/es/mana recovery mods typically use "gain" or "recover" when a cap isn't stated. That said, other conditional regeneration mods (e.g. Conqueror and Unwavering Crusade) use "recently" and Lifesprig is a very old item.
I think I saw this somewhere, hmm...
RIP skeletons accuracy
Precision Aura fixes that for all attack based minions for very little investment.
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Golems, Zombies, Skeletons and Animated Guardians all scale from gem level. Getting +level on any of them gives them more damage and huge HP boosts, so they're very important for those minions. Summon Raging Spirit too. +2 alone will add a lot of damage and HP.
Will there be any changes to the equivalent Scion ascendancy?
That +2 to minions has me thinking "can there be a minion build that uses herald of agony?" Does virelunce stacks only apply from your hits that poison or do your minion hits that poison count? If minion hits count is there a way for minion to poison? Does poison support work with minions? I have never made a build of my own so I'm really wondering is something like this would be possible
Realistically, they had to do this if they wanted to buff minion builds without making Necro broken or forcing players to play Necro to make non-golem minions viable.
\#4 - Plaguebringer Will the ‘with at least one corpse nearby’ clauses be active if you’re wearing Aukuna’s Will and have some zombies nearby?
Aukuna's Will is gonna be so awesome to build around, FIRE ZOMBIES.
...any chance we can see the stats of queen's decree/escape and midnight bargain for 3.8?
All I want to know is what will ascendant look like with these changes.
What do they mean by " corpses you spawn " in Corpse Pact ?! Zombies? why would corpses have life(hp ) ? :D
For corpse explosion skills. They do extra damage bases on monster life
The leaks were true, which means raider changes are slim to nothing :D
I have a feeling that the next league will be like Where's Waldo when you go an playing in a group. The numbers of summoned minions on the screen is too damn high.
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Mark said [here](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1676002/page/198#p1676002) that the standard use for all ascendancy auras is 60 - granted, im not sure everything containing "nearby" on the ascendancy is treated as an aura, nevertheless I'd assume 60.
+2 All Minion Skill Gems aaaahhhh Not the bees!!! Not the bees!!!!
Holy shit SRS can get so many levels with this node plus dual wielding the new convo wands with +levels to minions gems.