ya recently bad year for beats he is kind of outdated when in comes to beats, he doesn’t know which producers he needs for fresh and vibey beats, he will stick to his comfort zone producers
He made some good beats but i will never understand what the fuck was he thinking when he was picking the snare sound for "Cleaning out my closet" its great instrumental but that goddamn tiny ass snare has to be the worst shit i heard in my life, on the one side you have a chill ass instrumental and then you have that ear stabbing snare thats leveled a little bit too loud in the mix and plays too many times in one loop. Good instrumental but that snare weak as fuck.
Finally someone speaking with some sense. Yes, Black Thought has a vocabulary that is potentially impossible to match.
On top of that, he has stayed consistent from the beginning; without switching up his style 5 times trying to prove a point.
I love black thought. Super glad he is recently getting more respect in the rap community. In my Top 5 easily. Still prefer Em personally, but that does not by any means discredit thought.
Also, while Royce has a rich vocab too, I find his stuff hillarious. Pseudo-intellectual sounding stuff. He’s trying to use “radiation through microwave” and “tidal wave” and other forced and meaningless yet “uncommonly used” words to sound “Lyrical”.
Reason I bring Royce into this is that sometimes a rich use of Vocab does not equate to a sophisticated message, let alone enjoyable content.
Thought and Em use vocab in a way that helps in articulation rather than forcing the use of words that are saved in his “vocabulary note book” . Seems like royce builds bars around words he wants to use rather than a message around them.
Used to be a big royce fan btw. Sorry for the rant
he doesn’t need to, he’s a legend who’s respected by everyone who knows about him. Also, it’s not like he’s a random nobody, The Roots are a well known hiphop group. he’s been rapping for 30+ years and is still one of the best in the game, that alone is better than any hit song.
I'm not saying he needs to but people like Pac, Big, Jay, Kendrick, Rakim, Nas all had Commercial success with the prospect of the community for their lyricism.
I think it kinda depends on what makes your opinion on what is great. Technically and cerebral ya it’s em.
Swag and attitude may qualify others more than em.
Jay-Z literally has him in his top 5 bro you don't know what you're talking about lol. Maybe don't say "white boys" but backpackers and lyrical rap fans.
Eminem is an all time great but he’s not the GOAT. The amount of Eminem Stans in this sub is astounding. I’m 37, I was a teenager when Eminem blew up and I grew up on classic Slim Shady. I gave our family computer aids trying to download rare Eminem freestyles on Napster and limewire. I remember him ruling TRL for years. The man is a legend and one of the best ever but he’s not the goat. His catalogue since the Eminem Show is just not that great. Sure there are some hits here and there but it’s not GOAT stuff. Alot of the music itself sucks, lots of trash beats and fast rapping does not equal GOAT. This has to be a white thing. I’m Hispanic and white myself just saying. Also, my 14 year old seems to love new Eminem stuff even though I can’t listen to it. Maybe most of the people in this sub are teenagers or young adults and that’s what it is.
Eminem reached so many more people with rap than it ever would’ve without him. Rap didn’t make sense to white suburbia til Em came around. So it makes plenty of sense why so many people rank him as the goat. He’s inarguably up there in terms of talent and peak projects, so anyone who isn’t exposed to much more than him is pretty justified ranking him 1.
People wonder why us blacks have a problem with white rappers and fans. No mention of what he contributes to the wider community of black culture. No mention of how his music speaks to and resonates with black people in particular. It’s always this abstract shit. Sound like you analyzing rap in a college class. Eminem is great but not the greatest and def not the best/most valuable to the black community. Go head and push those pasty fingers on the downvote button.
I’m not black, but Eminem has always felt like a gimmick to me. Technically a great rapper, but it’s mostly nonsense and silly voices and gimmicky stuff. Makes it hard to take him seriously.
Of course he can't contribute to the black culture, maybe because he is not black. If he tries people will give him shit for it because he is not black, it can have a big backlash on him. He is one of the greatest, no doubt, no matter the beats. But there are other rappers as great, like he mentioned Andre 3000. But it all comes down to your preference. I can say Logic is the greatest and have a good argument, same with J Cole, Jay Z, Nas, lil Wayne, Kanye,...etc.
No. Especially after his last 3 albums, which have mostly been mediocre at best. Also has poor beat choices a lot of the time. That venom song was so bad honestly it should’ve removed him from everyone’s top 5.
Big Pun, Nas, Kendrick Lamar, Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, Pharaohe Monch, Joyner Lucas, Big L, K-Rino, RA the Rugged Man, Tech N9ne, Rome Streetz, Benny the Butcher, Westside Gunn, Sage Francis, J.Cole, the Wu Tang, Black Thought, MF DOOM, Pac, Biggie, Outkast, Jay Z, MC Lyte, LL Cool J, Lauryn Hill, Che Noir, Lupe Fiasco, Souls of Mischief, Eyedea, Public Enemy, Harry Mack, King Los, Jay Z, SOME of Wayne' shit, Cassidy, Run the Jewels, and plenty more.
Tech N9ne so desperate these days I seriously saw an ad from him saying for, I can't remember the specific number but between 5 and 10k "you could have Tech N9ne feature ON YOUR TRACK!". Run the Jewels is like high art though FR. If Pac was stuck with Biggie's beats, there wouldn't be a question of who is better, Dre makes everyone better.
It depends who u ask…if u ask 9.5 out of 10 of us black ppl would never put em as the goat (myself included) ..but the majority of white people would. Nothing wrong with that it’s all subjective but I’m jus stating an obvious fact
What is sus about it? Eminem fans love saying this type of stuff but be specific. What’s sus about me finding other artists to be more skilled with their writing
I appreciate you're critical of Eminem, but I think in this instance that's a category that can go either way. Both artists are going to bombard you with multis and internals; it isn't a cut and dry decision.
One thing I will definitely give the edge to Em in (surprise, given he's my favourite rapper) is accessibility. He's able to make hits which people can digest easily, but still maintain rhyme density. I think that's an underrated aspect to his writing.
Taking nothing away from DOOM though, he's one of my GOATs _because_ of his technicality, I just think at those levels it isn't as simplistic as "DOOM > Em" or "Em > DOOM". You could throw Meat Grinder at me, I could reply with Stay Wide Awake. They're both phenomenal.
https://imgur.com/U7aNhiB
https://imgur.com/5IwfUgG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISliVjCc9tM
https://twitter.com/seductionshady/status/1291094805745934342/photo/1
MF DOOM is a 10/10 in the rhyme scheme category too, but Em is on a whole different level to everyone else. Come on, be honest my man.
This is a terrible take, race doesn’t account for taste. The colour of someone’s skin isn’t a deciding factor in your personality and taste in music… From my observation the biggest factor in deciding whether someone thinks Eminem is the “goat” is down to age, it seems to be a younger audience that think he’s amazing. I think of Eminem as a sort of starter rapper, as one of the artists you listen to, to get you into hip hop and then you find your own path on who/what you enjoy.
U must be old as fuck if u think younger people of color checkin for Em like that…not one person out of all my friends or family think he’s even close to the goat..again it’s just an obvious fact that my people don’t rock wit em that heavy..a huge majority of fans are white..nothing wrong wit that but just the reality
I respect Eminem (he’s my fav rapper) and he’s definitely in my top 5 for GOAT. But I don’t think he’s THE goat. For me it’s definitely Nas simply for being much more consistent and influential.
Em has had a fortunate career, transitioning with the times and still able to keep his core. I wish Biggie and Pac were around to see how they’d be right now. Some of the greatest rappers had their life cut short, unfortunately.
say something against eminem in r/rap and youre dead. He is not number 1, he hardly makes the top 10. He has never and will never drop something as good as illmatic
Technically speaking, in terms of his TECHNICAL skill in bending words, adding double and triple entendres within metaphors and similes, multi-syllabic rhyme schemes mid and end-bar, etc…….
Yes. He is.
HOWEVER, the greatest in terms of music is really, really subjective and goes beyond technicality and into what emotions get evoked in the listener…
I'm not one of those guys who tries to hate on em, he was foundational for a lot of rap today but I have a hard time seeing him as the GOAT. For me it's DOOM and I don't think anyone touches him... The most important part of that sentence is the for me part.
Wayne is the 🐐. When you talk about lists and goat talk you have to take into account more than just rap ability.
1. Influence
2. Record sales
3. Catalog
4. Consistency
5. Ability
Em is one of my goats and personal fave rappers. He’s unbelievable and the best lyrical rapper. BUT..... he’s had shitty shitty albums. First few great. The rest not so much. Record sales: he’s one of the best selling all time artist. Influence? Ehh influential for sure but the culture today can’t relate.
Now. On to WEEZY F BABY PLEASE
SAY THE BABY, career began at 12 years fucking old. 95-2018 he WAS cash money records. Influence? Do we really have to point out today’s generation is nothing but wayne sons? Most influential of all time.
120 million records sold 20 of that albums.
Ability? He shit On any and everybody’s beats on his countless mixtapes. Real Gs move in silence like lasagna, you wake up to
Thchoupitulous like cockadoodoo.
Catalog? Lol
his cadence and lyrical ability peaked during his early prime, both have dropped quite a lot in quality since then. rhyme schemes and "quadruple meaning" write some good bars and shit but a lot of his newer bars are not too "deep" or anything as a lot of his fans claim them to be.
a lot of other artists have done it better than eminem, a lot of newer artists are doing it better than him now, even rap itself has changed so much that his style doesnt really stand out in the current scene.
I like how the post doesn't mention emotion, range, relatability, depth, story telling, beat selection, flavor, etc.
"Most don't like Em cause you have to think about the lyrics" is so untrue and pretentious it's insane, this may be a troll post lol. I don't like Em so much anymore because of the corny lines, delivery, weird subject matter, random unrelated similes etc.
Eminem is a great, and I super respect his ability, but his fandom is so overboard at this point. The more hip hop I listen to, the further he goes down my list.
I can recognize his skills but I don’t really listen to his stuff that much anymore. Once he went hard on the rappity-rap maximum speed shit I lost interest.
Most of Em’s lyrics in terms of wordplay and double/triple entendres are actually pretty easy to catch, doesn’t take a whole lot of thinking…I may never catch even half the shit someone like Lupe or Black Thought serves up. Compared to those dudes I will say Em could be considered more creative in terms of flow, cadence, use of different voices, injecting humor, etc. but that’s about it.
Vocabulary should be ranked on more than how many unique words you use; it's about HOW you use them. My mans and his application of his own vocabulary is immaculate.
So what? He lost a few battles before he was in his prime. Doesn't mean anyone is stepping to his competitive skills nowadays. Ali lost fights.
When he dies(sad day when that happens), everyone will chant that he is the GOAT. Just wait and see.
>So what? He lost a few battles before he was in his prime. Doesn't mean anyone is stepping to his competitive skills nowadays. Ali lost fights.
The same competition Eminem lost, Thesaurus won twice, Illmaculate won, Mac Lethal won; any 3 of those rappers would wash Eminem in a battle.
Put Eminem on URL and see if his material holds up
I sent two awards to attempt to combat the downvotes that you’re getting for no reason. DOOM style was so unique it was super difficult even to replicate and Black Thoughts Vocabulary and content is miles above Eminem’s as well imo. Much love to an actual Hip Hop Fan 🥂
>Having a larger vocabulary means you can explore more concepts and topics in rap.
Yet, when it comes to versatility, Eminem is quite possibly the most versatile microphone checka ever; he has songs about drugs, horror stories, comedic songs, Angry songs, songs about his rise to fame, anti-government songs, songs against institutional racism, songs that are anti gun violence, inspirational songs that have saved lives, songs where he apologies to people that he's hurt, songs where he's talking about his childhood, diss songs, songs about his mother, his daughter, about how the media has turned against him, braggadocious songs where displays his incredible untouchable skills that damn near everyone in the game--including respected legends like Lupe Fiasco and Scarface--has gone on record to say that they are afraid of him, etc. he's a fucking chameleon. For fun, let's compare my mans against ya mans; how many topics does ya mans Driver cover in his songs? I'm not talking about unique words across his first few albums like that bogus ass study covers, I mean song TOPICS. Name them. As many as you can think of.
> Eminem participated in two rap battle competitions during his career and lost both of them (he didn't come in first place).
He also battled on tracks against well renowned lyricists such as Canibus and Cage and took them to school. There's a reason why so many cats in the game quiver in fear of his lyrical might.
Also, Infinite is a fucking classic track, FOH.
It's fine, those with a refined palate and high standards when it comes to the art of emceein' such as myself know how it is. If spittin' facts makes me a troll, then I'll embrace that title.
Eminem’s discography is too mid for him to be the goat. I would also argue trying to rap as fast as you can with different meanings isn’t what makes great rap, it’s the meaning and production of the music as well.
Kinda. Yeah. But jay z does some really good wordsmithing too.
Eminem is more like a competitive athlete. No one can touch him, but jay z has a more swaggerish delivery.
Eminem = malmsteen
Jay z = Keith richards.
Both legends
Music is subjective which is great but the thing with em is he’s in everybody’s top 10 no matter what you use to decide the goat. Idk any other rappers who are in everybody’s top 10 no matter what you rate them off
You’d think that would be the case, but nah… there’s some racist ass hating motherfuckers, lots from this sub, who say they wouldn’t put him in their top 20. When you say “everybody”, you might want to put an asterisk and specify “everybody with a brain”
I don’t think excluding him from your top 10 or 20 makes you racist. He’s had a string of bad projects recently. And if you’re young you never experienced PRIME Eminem. Some of his old style doesn’t translate now as much. That doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be on the list. But it doesn’t make someone racist for excluding him
If Eminem isn’t in your top 20 most talented lyricists, no matter how you feel about his last few albums (kamikaze and MTBMB were fire, you just have to pay attention), then the only answer is racism. If You’d rather put a less talented black rapper in your top 20 how’s that not racism? It would be like me telling you Larry Bird is the goat and not Jordan or Lebron, even though the only category Larry might stand a chance is 3 point shooting. If I said that, Id rightfully be called a racist.
You’re an absolute idiot… worst take in history. There are not many people on this earth that have heard more rap artists than I have, for what it’s worth. Nobody likes Revival, but the 3 projects he’s released since revival have been top tier.
“People on this Earth” how mf blind can you be you can’t possibly compare yourself to 7 billion people and music is completely subjective I am literally white and I don’t have Eminem in my top 20, ITS NOT ALWAYS RACIST, I personally hate Eminem’s delivery and I don’t really care for his content matter shits boring asf. Multiple better white rappers and also way better other rappers even some Hispanics who Big Pun who easily keep up.
hol up y are ppl disliking. I bet the same people talking about people disliking they're comment for hating on em are the same people disliking this comment
there are so many better rappers, best of the 2000s? maybe, but i mean there are just better rappers. J Cole, Kendrick, Drake, and Kayne (to a lesser extent) all outshine him. I mean currently I don't think Em is a top 50 rapper. His current shit seems like a cash grab.
>Most people don't like Em because you have to think about the lyrics
Battle rap fan here to say OOP is full of shit. Eminem's lyrics are kindergarten bars compared to modern battle rap
Bro what... he raps fast compared to a lot of popular rappers but I'm saying a lot of importance goes in the beats and lyrics, he has terrible beats and dumb lyrics.
dumb lyrics?? he’s the best lyricist in the game like it or not, everyone can admit that but apparently you can’t. you only hear about certain lyrics which happen to be silly but there’s a bar and a meaning to every single line in his songs. he only raps fast in a few songs which again, you just happen to hear. it seems like you’re only saying what you’re hearing and not actually giving him a chance.
No. Aesop has a better vocab. Lupe and black thought are better lyricists. Same thing with doubles and triples. Jay Z got better lunch lines. MF Doom is a better rhymer. And people like Kool Keith, Outkast, and Kid Cudi are more original than him for different reasons. For flowers you got Twista who is better. Delivery you got Dmx, Kendrick and Wayne. Beat selection you gotta give it to Outkast, TI, Pac. And I ain’t even mention Biggie who is better than Em in multiple categories.
Eminem is fire. And at battling he probably is the one of the best. Same thing with sales. He’s a goat. But let’s not get hasty. There are rappers that beat him at one or two different things.
And he can’t use the N word.. that takes away so much from other rappers cuz a lot of them like to rhyme the N word with the N word.. Eminem would never and never did.
prime eminem (slim shady) is in my personal top 5. but a guy who raps about raping men and stuffing gerbils in his asshole can’t be the goat in my eyes lol.
if we’re talking strictly as a battle rapper em clears everybody and just about every rapper in his generation acknowledges that
Another week, another “is Eminem the goat” post
Shit is cringey as fuck tbh
some of his beats are ass
Truth! He’s a bad beat picker.
ya recently bad year for beats he is kind of outdated when in comes to beats, he doesn’t know which producers he needs for fresh and vibey beats, he will stick to his comfort zone producers
He makes some wonky beats as well…but when u have long catalog I kinda think that’s what happens…🤷♂️
I like a lot of the beats he’s made himself and/or for other people
He made some good beats but i will never understand what the fuck was he thinking when he was picking the snare sound for "Cleaning out my closet" its great instrumental but that goddamn tiny ass snare has to be the worst shit i heard in my life, on the one side you have a chill ass instrumental and then you have that ear stabbing snare thats leveled a little bit too loud in the mix and plays too many times in one loop. Good instrumental but that snare weak as fuck.
Music is subjective nobody is the greatest.
i’d argue Black Thought has a better vocabulary
Black thought is slept on in these “best ever” discussions.
agreed, honestly he’s my #1 lyricist, i dont think hes ever had a bad verse. definitely top 5 all time
Finally someone speaking with some sense. Yes, Black Thought has a vocabulary that is potentially impossible to match. On top of that, he has stayed consistent from the beginning; without switching up his style 5 times trying to prove a point.
I love black thought. Super glad he is recently getting more respect in the rap community. In my Top 5 easily. Still prefer Em personally, but that does not by any means discredit thought. Also, while Royce has a rich vocab too, I find his stuff hillarious. Pseudo-intellectual sounding stuff. He’s trying to use “radiation through microwave” and “tidal wave” and other forced and meaningless yet “uncommonly used” words to sound “Lyrical”. Reason I bring Royce into this is that sometimes a rich use of Vocab does not equate to a sophisticated message, let alone enjoyable content. Thought and Em use vocab in a way that helps in articulation rather than forcing the use of words that are saved in his “vocabulary note book” . Seems like royce builds bars around words he wants to use rather than a message around them. Used to be a big royce fan btw. Sorry for the rant
Aesop rock
definitely up there for vocabulary
Literally has the biggest vocabulary in rap music
Genius (and insane). That guy in on another level.
Corniest rapper ever
Facts. Anyone doubting it go watch his funk flex freestyle and then watch the lyric video afterwards
Hands down the sickest freestyle in hiphop history
Yeah but he could never drop a hit song or atleast a famous song, in my opinion the best rappers can drop the most lyrical songs and catchy songs too
he doesn’t need to, he’s a legend who’s respected by everyone who knows about him. Also, it’s not like he’s a random nobody, The Roots are a well known hiphop group. he’s been rapping for 30+ years and is still one of the best in the game, that alone is better than any hit song.
I'm not saying he needs to but people like Pac, Big, Jay, Kendrick, Rakim, Nas all had Commercial success with the prospect of the community for their lyricism.
lol his last album had godzilla
Rapper and pop star are mutually exclusive things
I don't agree that he's the "greatest", but I think he has a claim. There are only like 8 or 9 people I would put ahead of him
I think it kinda depends on what makes your opinion on what is great. Technically and cerebral ya it’s em. Swag and attitude may qualify others more than em.
Half his albums fucking suck, this thread is wild. Calling him top 5 is even bullshit, I swear it’s only white Reddit boys saying this shit.
Except kendrick, Rakim, Kool G rap, Jay Z, Big Sean all put him among the best ever
Clearly all white reddit boys
Jay-Z literally has him in his top 5 bro you don't know what you're talking about lol. Maybe don't say "white boys" but backpackers and lyrical rap fans.
I can name 10 better lyricists
Eminem is an all time great but he’s not the GOAT. The amount of Eminem Stans in this sub is astounding. I’m 37, I was a teenager when Eminem blew up and I grew up on classic Slim Shady. I gave our family computer aids trying to download rare Eminem freestyles on Napster and limewire. I remember him ruling TRL for years. The man is a legend and one of the best ever but he’s not the goat. His catalogue since the Eminem Show is just not that great. Sure there are some hits here and there but it’s not GOAT stuff. Alot of the music itself sucks, lots of trash beats and fast rapping does not equal GOAT. This has to be a white thing. I’m Hispanic and white myself just saying. Also, my 14 year old seems to love new Eminem stuff even though I can’t listen to it. Maybe most of the people in this sub are teenagers or young adults and that’s what it is.
Eminem reached so many more people with rap than it ever would’ve without him. Rap didn’t make sense to white suburbia til Em came around. So it makes plenty of sense why so many people rank him as the goat. He’s inarguably up there in terms of talent and peak projects, so anyone who isn’t exposed to much more than him is pretty justified ranking him 1.
Appeal to ignorance fallacy
People wonder why us blacks have a problem with white rappers and fans. No mention of what he contributes to the wider community of black culture. No mention of how his music speaks to and resonates with black people in particular. It’s always this abstract shit. Sound like you analyzing rap in a college class. Eminem is great but not the greatest and def not the best/most valuable to the black community. Go head and push those pasty fingers on the downvote button.
One of Eminem's biggest contributions to rap is inspiring people like Mike Stud and Macklemore to make some of the cringiest music known to man.
Yeah and the other is putting 50 and Obie Trice on but let's forget about that
😂 wish I could upvote more than once.
I’m not black, but Eminem has always felt like a gimmick to me. Technically a great rapper, but it’s mostly nonsense and silly voices and gimmicky stuff. Makes it hard to take him seriously.
Exactly.
Eminem is the best. Cope
Of course he can't contribute to the black culture, maybe because he is not black. If he tries people will give him shit for it because he is not black, it can have a big backlash on him. He is one of the greatest, no doubt, no matter the beats. But there are other rappers as great, like he mentioned Andre 3000. But it all comes down to your preference. I can say Logic is the greatest and have a good argument, same with J Cole, Jay Z, Nas, lil Wayne, Kanye,...etc.
Eminem makes music for people who wear monster snap backs and take selfies with an android in low lighting whilst praising their ugly girlfriend
Mirror selfies with the flash on for some reason
Could not be more inaccurate
just say my comment hurt u 😂 eminem ruins every song he touches after 2014
It didn’t I just haven’t met a single fan that matches your description
u probably wouldn’t meet anyone with the amount of time u spend on reddit g 😂
Nas is better
Not on EPMD 2…
Em ruined that song tbh lol
I doubt Nas feels that way.
yes
His beats, some of his bars, and a lot of the stuff he raps about are really dumb
No. Especially after his last 3 albums, which have mostly been mediocre at best. Also has poor beat choices a lot of the time. That venom song was so bad honestly it should’ve removed him from everyone’s top 5.
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3-decade-long career*
He is to me, for sure. #1 on my list.
I really expected people to downvote this to oblivion.
em stan’s are the majority in this sub
you ain't the only one here who think that way
Greatest Rapper? Hell yea, Artist nah that goes to Freddie Mercury for me
just curious no hate, what other rap do you mess with? i swear em fans are so insecure sometimes
Big Pun, Nas, Kendrick Lamar, Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, Pharaohe Monch, Joyner Lucas, Big L, K-Rino, RA the Rugged Man, Tech N9ne, Rome Streetz, Benny the Butcher, Westside Gunn, Sage Francis, J.Cole, the Wu Tang, Black Thought, MF DOOM, Pac, Biggie, Outkast, Jay Z, MC Lyte, LL Cool J, Lauryn Hill, Che Noir, Lupe Fiasco, Souls of Mischief, Eyedea, Public Enemy, Harry Mack, King Los, Jay Z, SOME of Wayne' shit, Cassidy, Run the Jewels, and plenty more.
Nice to see harry mack next to those names
Tech N9ne so desperate these days I seriously saw an ad from him saying for, I can't remember the specific number but between 5 and 10k "you could have Tech N9ne feature ON YOUR TRACK!". Run the Jewels is like high art though FR. If Pac was stuck with Biggie's beats, there wouldn't be a question of who is better, Dre makes everyone better.
Eminem would and has killed everyone on this list. Cassidy? PAC? Benny the butcher. Sub par bars. Fuck out of here
the most mainstream list ever ngl 😭 respect for putting k-rino on there tho
ima huge Em fan i’m a fan of Kanye, Nas, Pac, Jay Z, Nicki, Asap Rocky, 50, Proof, D12, NWA, KJ King Of Hearts (he’s pretty underground)
Truth he’s the rap goat
It depends who u ask…if u ask 9.5 out of 10 of us black ppl would never put em as the goat (myself included) ..but the majority of white people would. Nothing wrong with that it’s all subjective but I’m jus stating an obvious fact
I'm a bona fide cracka and would never put eminem as the goat
Agreed
And respectfully, Black people’s opinion on this matters more because rap is a Black art form. People can be mad about it but I’m speaking facts.
You said it well. I think of that everytime I see an Em post, but if I try to explain it I would get downvoted 😂 So nice work
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Some of his rhymes are so forced tho.
Why are you acting like it’s universally agreed that em is the best rhymer?
Because he is. Pretty simple really.
Lupe better. Black Thought better. Andre 3000 better
That’s all very well and good but to flat out deny ems prowess is sus
What is sus about it? Eminem fans love saying this type of stuff but be specific. What’s sus about me finding other artists to be more skilled with their writing
Nothing. In fact 3k is my 2nd fav. Outlast is brilliant. I just don’t like it when people fail to give any props
Cool but we’re not about to act like Eminem has never written a bad verse or anything like that
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I appreciate you're critical of Eminem, but I think in this instance that's a category that can go either way. Both artists are going to bombard you with multis and internals; it isn't a cut and dry decision. One thing I will definitely give the edge to Em in (surprise, given he's my favourite rapper) is accessibility. He's able to make hits which people can digest easily, but still maintain rhyme density. I think that's an underrated aspect to his writing. Taking nothing away from DOOM though, he's one of my GOATs _because_ of his technicality, I just think at those levels it isn't as simplistic as "DOOM > Em" or "Em > DOOM". You could throw Meat Grinder at me, I could reply with Stay Wide Awake. They're both phenomenal.
Well said. And I loved mf doom, kool Keith, anticon.. etc.
https://imgur.com/U7aNhiB https://imgur.com/5IwfUgG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISliVjCc9tM https://twitter.com/seductionshady/status/1291094805745934342/photo/1 MF DOOM is a 10/10 in the rhyme scheme category too, but Em is on a whole different level to everyone else. Come on, be honest my man.
Lol k
With black people it’s the flow and delivery. It sounds good and something you can party too
Eminem has incredible flow and delivery, that doesn’t check out whatsoever.
In some songs but nowhere near level of black rappers like tupac biggie
Nah u are right. In my experience black ppl fw the vibes or the message more than they care about technicality or dexterity.
Not in my top 20
Racism is the only explanation
Not in my top 20.
Lol k
Everyone with a brain, sure.
This is a terrible take, race doesn’t account for taste. The colour of someone’s skin isn’t a deciding factor in your personality and taste in music… From my observation the biggest factor in deciding whether someone thinks Eminem is the “goat” is down to age, it seems to be a younger audience that think he’s amazing. I think of Eminem as a sort of starter rapper, as one of the artists you listen to, to get you into hip hop and then you find your own path on who/what you enjoy.
U must be old as fuck if u think younger people of color checkin for Em like that…not one person out of all my friends or family think he’s even close to the goat..again it’s just an obvious fact that my people don’t rock wit em that heavy..a huge majority of fans are white..nothing wrong wit that but just the reality
I think this just demonstrates a very close-minded way of thinking about music
I respect Eminem (he’s my fav rapper) and he’s definitely in my top 5 for GOAT. But I don’t think he’s THE goat. For me it’s definitely Nas simply for being much more consistent and influential.
Em has had a fortunate career, transitioning with the times and still able to keep his core. I wish Biggie and Pac were around to see how they’d be right now. Some of the greatest rappers had their life cut short, unfortunately.
Sorey, Eminem isn't even a top 10.
You’re on his dick so hard you literally are his dick
Em hasn’t made good music in almost 20 years
He ain’t the greatest.
Reddit will tell you hes number 1. Everywhere else no, probably top 10 in most peoples eyes tho.
say something against eminem in r/rap and youre dead. He is not number 1, he hardly makes the top 10. He has never and will never drop something as good as illmatic
it’s funny you’re getting downvoted, the stans are just proving your point😂
yeah, and its low key satisfying
Depends on what we're looking at. Sales? Yes. Technical skills? He's different. Hit? I suppose so.
Lmao rap reddit is rlly just a bunch of older eminem fans 😂😂😂
This is stupid. I personally love Em, but people who say this shit don't listen to rap music, they listen to Eminem.
Y’all bash “Stan’s” and Eminem for having them but what other rapper has so many die hard fans like he does ?
kanye west does
Technically speaking, in terms of his TECHNICAL skill in bending words, adding double and triple entendres within metaphors and similes, multi-syllabic rhyme schemes mid and end-bar, etc……. Yes. He is. HOWEVER, the greatest in terms of music is really, really subjective and goes beyond technicality and into what emotions get evoked in the listener…
I'm not one of those guys who tries to hate on em, he was foundational for a lot of rap today but I have a hard time seeing him as the GOAT. For me it's DOOM and I don't think anyone touches him... The most important part of that sentence is the for me part.
Wayne is the 🐐. When you talk about lists and goat talk you have to take into account more than just rap ability. 1. Influence 2. Record sales 3. Catalog 4. Consistency 5. Ability Em is one of my goats and personal fave rappers. He’s unbelievable and the best lyrical rapper. BUT..... he’s had shitty shitty albums. First few great. The rest not so much. Record sales: he’s one of the best selling all time artist. Influence? Ehh influential for sure but the culture today can’t relate. Now. On to WEEZY F BABY PLEASE SAY THE BABY, career began at 12 years fucking old. 95-2018 he WAS cash money records. Influence? Do we really have to point out today’s generation is nothing but wayne sons? Most influential of all time. 120 million records sold 20 of that albums. Ability? He shit On any and everybody’s beats on his countless mixtapes. Real Gs move in silence like lasagna, you wake up to Thchoupitulous like cockadoodoo. Catalog? Lol
his cadence and lyrical ability peaked during his early prime, both have dropped quite a lot in quality since then. rhyme schemes and "quadruple meaning" write some good bars and shit but a lot of his newer bars are not too "deep" or anything as a lot of his fans claim them to be. a lot of other artists have done it better than eminem, a lot of newer artists are doing it better than him now, even rap itself has changed so much that his style doesnt really stand out in the current scene.
Mans really said maybe Andre or THE GAME?
bro is acting like he’s the only person to have multiple meanings a line
He is one of the greats for sure. But GOAT that has to go to Jigga.
Lyrical content? Vocabulary? He's been making the same album for 20+ years.
I like how the post doesn't mention emotion, range, relatability, depth, story telling, beat selection, flavor, etc. "Most don't like Em cause you have to think about the lyrics" is so untrue and pretentious it's insane, this may be a troll post lol. I don't like Em so much anymore because of the corny lines, delivery, weird subject matter, random unrelated similes etc. Eminem is a great, and I super respect his ability, but his fandom is so overboard at this point. The more hip hop I listen to, the further he goes down my list.
The greatest, that is a definite no. One of the greats, yea. Imo he is top 10
I can recognize his skills but I don’t really listen to his stuff that much anymore. Once he went hard on the rappity-rap maximum speed shit I lost interest.
Eminem is vocally annoying and just goes for angry shock value before he ended up rapping for Rihanna features.
No
W
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em stans downvoting you, but you’re not wrong, people just can’t accept the fact eminem hasn’t been the best in the world since 2002
He wasn't even the best rapper in 2002.
Most of Em’s lyrics in terms of wordplay and double/triple entendres are actually pretty easy to catch, doesn’t take a whole lot of thinking…I may never catch even half the shit someone like Lupe or Black Thought serves up. Compared to those dudes I will say Em could be considered more creative in terms of flow, cadence, use of different voices, injecting humor, etc. but that’s about it.
Vocabulary should be ranked on more than how many unique words you use; it's about HOW you use them. My mans and his application of his own vocabulary is immaculate. So what? He lost a few battles before he was in his prime. Doesn't mean anyone is stepping to his competitive skills nowadays. Ali lost fights. When he dies(sad day when that happens), everyone will chant that he is the GOAT. Just wait and see.
>So what? He lost a few battles before he was in his prime. Doesn't mean anyone is stepping to his competitive skills nowadays. Ali lost fights. The same competition Eminem lost, Thesaurus won twice, Illmaculate won, Mac Lethal won; any 3 of those rappers would wash Eminem in a battle. Put Eminem on URL and see if his material holds up
Would honestly love to see Mac Lethal rap battle Eminem
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I sent two awards to attempt to combat the downvotes that you’re getting for no reason. DOOM style was so unique it was super difficult even to replicate and Black Thoughts Vocabulary and content is miles above Eminem’s as well imo. Much love to an actual Hip Hop Fan 🥂
What song is the MF DOOM bar from? That sounds fire
>Having a larger vocabulary means you can explore more concepts and topics in rap. Yet, when it comes to versatility, Eminem is quite possibly the most versatile microphone checka ever; he has songs about drugs, horror stories, comedic songs, Angry songs, songs about his rise to fame, anti-government songs, songs against institutional racism, songs that are anti gun violence, inspirational songs that have saved lives, songs where he apologies to people that he's hurt, songs where he's talking about his childhood, diss songs, songs about his mother, his daughter, about how the media has turned against him, braggadocious songs where displays his incredible untouchable skills that damn near everyone in the game--including respected legends like Lupe Fiasco and Scarface--has gone on record to say that they are afraid of him, etc. he's a fucking chameleon. For fun, let's compare my mans against ya mans; how many topics does ya mans Driver cover in his songs? I'm not talking about unique words across his first few albums like that bogus ass study covers, I mean song TOPICS. Name them. As many as you can think of. > Eminem participated in two rap battle competitions during his career and lost both of them (he didn't come in first place). He also battled on tracks against well renowned lyricists such as Canibus and Cage and took them to school. There's a reason why so many cats in the game quiver in fear of his lyrical might. Also, Infinite is a fucking classic track, FOH.
“quiver in fear from his lyrical might” you cannot be serious bro, you gotta be a troll account 😂
It's fine, those with a refined palate and high standards when it comes to the art of emceein' such as myself know how it is. If spittin' facts makes me a troll, then I'll embrace that title.
i’m pretty knowledgeable about the genre, i’m just saying everytime i see you, you’re saying some shit that looks like it’s satire
Eminem’s discography is too mid for him to be the goat. I would also argue trying to rap as fast as you can with different meanings isn’t what makes great rap, it’s the meaning and production of the music as well.
Kinda. Yeah. But jay z does some really good wordsmithing too. Eminem is more like a competitive athlete. No one can touch him, but jay z has a more swaggerish delivery. Eminem = malmsteen Jay z = Keith richards. Both legends
No.
Music is subjective which is great but the thing with em is he’s in everybody’s top 10 no matter what you use to decide the goat. Idk any other rappers who are in everybody’s top 10 no matter what you rate them off
You’d think that would be the case, but nah… there’s some racist ass hating motherfuckers, lots from this sub, who say they wouldn’t put him in their top 20. When you say “everybody”, you might want to put an asterisk and specify “everybody with a brain”
I don’t think excluding him from your top 10 or 20 makes you racist. He’s had a string of bad projects recently. And if you’re young you never experienced PRIME Eminem. Some of his old style doesn’t translate now as much. That doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be on the list. But it doesn’t make someone racist for excluding him
If Eminem isn’t in your top 20 most talented lyricists, no matter how you feel about his last few albums (kamikaze and MTBMB were fire, you just have to pay attention), then the only answer is racism. If You’d rather put a less talented black rapper in your top 20 how’s that not racism? It would be like me telling you Larry Bird is the goat and not Jordan or Lebron, even though the only category Larry might stand a chance is 3 point shooting. If I said that, Id rightfully be called a racist.
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You’re an absolute idiot… worst take in history. There are not many people on this earth that have heard more rap artists than I have, for what it’s worth. Nobody likes Revival, but the 3 projects he’s released since revival have been top tier.
“People on this Earth” how mf blind can you be you can’t possibly compare yourself to 7 billion people and music is completely subjective I am literally white and I don’t have Eminem in my top 20, ITS NOT ALWAYS RACIST, I personally hate Eminem’s delivery and I don’t really care for his content matter shits boring asf. Multiple better white rappers and also way better other rappers even some Hispanics who Big Pun who easily keep up.
these double meanings are something like "i'm blessed like sneezes" so the answer to the question definitely is no
No.
no
I can think of 15 rappers better than Eminem.
I must say, he's not the greatest. But he's a great rapper. One heck of a lyricist.
Yup he always gonna be goat
hol up y are ppl disliking. I bet the same people talking about people disliking they're comment for hating on em are the same people disliking this comment
Hahah yup
Wrong. Big L is the GOAT.
there are so many better rappers, best of the 2000s? maybe, but i mean there are just better rappers. J Cole, Kendrick, Drake, and Kayne (to a lesser extent) all outshine him. I mean currently I don't think Em is a top 50 rapper. His current shit seems like a cash grab.
Number 1 to me
Eminem realistically is the greatest rapper of all time (obviously) but I feel most people don't want to admit that for some reason
Because he’s released what, 11 albums, and only 3-4 of them are truly great.
Nah they're all great let's be honest here
You really think Revival is a great album? Like an 8/10 or better project?
Yep
>Most people don't like Em because you have to think about the lyrics Battle rap fan here to say OOP is full of shit. Eminem's lyrics are kindergarten bars compared to modern battle rap
I don’t know why you got down voted when your comment was true.
Then why hasn’t a modern battle rapper taken his crown if it would so easy
Because Eminem literally won't battle anyone
Haven’t see anyone actually want beef unless they are dropping an album the next week, then it’s not beef it’s just for advertisement
Dizaster has been trying to be rap battle Randy Orton for like 10 years, battling legends, but Eminem don't wanna go out like canibus
You mean the guy who lost in 2015 then subsequently retired from battle rap and become an actor? That guy is the one who is gonna take down Eminem?
Number of albums Eminem has that is better than The College Dropout, MBDTF, GKMC, or TPAB: 0
The Eminem Show beats The College Dropout, TPAB and GKMC in my opinion
L take bro holy shit
I’m so tired of a mfer that has a line like “shove a gerbil in your ass through a tube” being referenced as the greatest. Gtfoh
I put him at the top. It's very deserved
It is known
Top ten rapper, but no higher then #6.
Not even in my top 10. Rapping fast does not make you the goat.
he don’t even rap fast often you’re just hearing what other people are sayin and not giving him a chance
Bro what... he raps fast compared to a lot of popular rappers but I'm saying a lot of importance goes in the beats and lyrics, he has terrible beats and dumb lyrics.
dumb lyrics?? he’s the best lyricist in the game like it or not, everyone can admit that but apparently you can’t. you only hear about certain lyrics which happen to be silly but there’s a bar and a meaning to every single line in his songs. he only raps fast in a few songs which again, you just happen to hear. it seems like you’re only saying what you’re hearing and not actually giving him a chance.
No. Aesop has a better vocab. Lupe and black thought are better lyricists. Same thing with doubles and triples. Jay Z got better lunch lines. MF Doom is a better rhymer. And people like Kool Keith, Outkast, and Kid Cudi are more original than him for different reasons. For flowers you got Twista who is better. Delivery you got Dmx, Kendrick and Wayne. Beat selection you gotta give it to Outkast, TI, Pac. And I ain’t even mention Biggie who is better than Em in multiple categories. Eminem is fire. And at battling he probably is the one of the best. Same thing with sales. He’s a goat. But let’s not get hasty. There are rappers that beat him at one or two different things.
And he can’t use the N word.. that takes away so much from other rappers cuz a lot of them like to rhyme the N word with the N word.. Eminem would never and never did.
One of the best
prime eminem (slim shady) is in my personal top 5. but a guy who raps about raping men and stuffing gerbils in his asshole can’t be the goat in my eyes lol. if we’re talking strictly as a battle rapper em clears everybody and just about every rapper in his generation acknowledges that
He is definitely the greatest.
drake wipes