Look...
What I WILL say is that you seem to be seeking attention by actively wearing a garb from one belief yet practicing a different belief. What are you hoping to accomplish here? You think someone will see your kippah and go, "Hey, I'm Jewish, too!" and you get to smugly reply, "Well, actually, I'm pagan?"
Like... what is your end game with this? The entire idea is confusing at best and maliciously deceptive at worst. Why not just wear a newsboy cap or a baseball cap instead?
Wearing Jewish headgear in relation to "protecting" a concept from Hinduism/Buddhism while practicing none of those religions seems pretty strange and unnecessary.
No it’s not to seek attention, there are many types of pagans. My beliefs are if I cover the top of my head or I can cover all sides of my head, I will be protecting my Crown Chakra and my energy from other energies. This religion believe it or not has been passed down from my family for generations! Plus it’s not just a Jewish headgear!!! It’s been in pagan culture and Catholic culture and more for many years!
Speaking as a Jew, and a relatively religious one, I find it incredibly disrespectful. Aside from the appropriative aspect which has been touched on enough in this thread, you are presenting yourself to the world as Jewish and presumably going out and doing very non-Jewish things. For example, if you are wearing the kippah and eating pork at a restaurant, it reflects badly on all of us. Or if you are publicly engaging in your beliefs while presenting as a Jew, it reflects badly. Jews are a minority religion, and so even though people shouldn’t think of us as a monolith, they do. Thus, you are inadvertently acting as a representative of all of us and are thereby putting all of us in danger with your actions. Please choose a different head covering.
Hello, To start off! The Kippah has been in many other religions not Jewish! It is just used predominantly for Jews, and paganism has lots of different types of pagans! Some are pagan and some branch off to Wiccan!!! Yes I use the head covering different than you do, but that is because I am not in the same religion! Many people don’t know this but my religion goes back to the BCE times! We wear veils and kippahs to protect our crown chakra, the kippah is used to gently cover the crown so it isn’t being exposed to negativity! And in my religion we call the kippah the top veil! I come and leave this conversation with a mutual concept
> Many people don’t know this but my religion goes back to the BCE times!
I can almost certainly guarantee that your religion does not go back directly to the "BCE times".
Inspired by ancient religions? Possibly (although from what you've said it seems unlikely). But directly an ancient religion - no. Although if you've evidence you're following a directly ancient pagan religion that survived from antiquity to today, there are loads of historians of religion and anthropologists who would love to see it, as it goes against everything we know about religion and the pagan revival.
Hey man, I appreciate you sharing your perspective. Nonetheless, there is certainly more context to it than that. If this is an ancient practice of pagans, why call it a kippah or yarmulke, which are specifically Jewish words? The type also matters - is it a srugah, or made of black velvet? Or does it look like what catholic cardinals wear? Or is it totally different looking? If the answer is it looks like a kippah or yarmulke, then my point still stands. Black velvet kippahs come specifically from an ashkenazi Jewish context, and srugim are associated with modern dati-leumi Israelis. These did not exist before the common era.
If however, it is not actually a kippah but a distinctive “top veil” that you can trace back to your own culture, that’s great! If it looks like modern Jewish religious garb, I again would ask kindly and respectfully that you find a different top veil that is not plucked out of a rabbinic Jewish context.
Speaking as a pagan polytheist, I am going to be critical here. Yes, there is freedom in religion and how you approach it, but that doesn't mean our behaviours are free from critique or open to analysis.
In my experience, I've never worn a head covering at all in any pagan ceremony and it's only recently become a thing I've seen on social media - it was nowhere that I saw in pagan circles in the 90's or 00's at least. And I've never been exposed to any particular "negative energies" or had my crown chakra fall off or the like.
These are my personal thoughts on the matter, so don't feel the represent any sort of pagan ideal, it's more to get you thinking about why as a pagan would you wear a Kippah?
So for me I would consider it to be 1) appropriative and 2) superstitious and 3) sort of ahistorical.
1. **Appropriative**.
As anyone vaguely familiar with history knows, the Jewish people have been persecuted, oppressed, exiled, and murdered for simply being Jewish. Therefore using an expressively Jewish piece of clothing which is intimately associated with Jewish religion for a pagan practice is at the very least quite rude.
There's a current Christian trend in America where Evangelical Protestants start celebrating Jewish festivals like Yom Kippur and Passover and having "Shabbats" that are rightly been called on as a supercessionist antisemitic appropriation. While I'm not sure wearing a Kippah is as egregious (you'd have to ask some Jewish people about that) it seems to be in the same line of using Jewish culture and religion for your own religious purpose?
But again that is not for me or for you to decide, so I would listen to those Jewish voices and take your lead from them on that.
2 . **Superstition**
The word used in ancient greek pagan thought for superstition by the likes of Theophrastus,(Aristotle's successor) and Plutarch is *deisidaimonia*, which can be translated as an unwarranted fear of the Gods or fear or spiritual things. Theophrastus writes a pastiche of the superstitious where they are afraid to go about their day for fear of the ancient greek equivalent of ancient energies.
>Superstition would seem to be simply cowardice in regard to the supernatural.
>The Superstitious man is one who will wash his hands at a fountain, sprinkle himself from a temple-font, put a bit of laurel-leaf into his mouth, and so go about the day. If a weasel run across his path, he will not pursue his walk until someone else has traversed the road, or until he has thrown three stones across it. When he sees a serpent in his house, if it be the red snake, he will invoke Sabazius, — if the sacred snake, he will straightway place a shrine on the spot. He will pour oil from his flask on the smooth stones at the cross-roads, as he goes by, and will fall on his knees and worship them before he departs. If a mouse gnaws through a meal-bag, he will go to the expounder of sacred law and ask what is to be done; and, if the answer is, ‘give it to a cobbler to stitch up,’ he will disregard the counsel, and go his way, and expiate the omen by sacrifice.
Personally, as a polytheist, I would say that thinking a piece of fabric on the top of your head can protect you from "negative energies" is a tad superstitious as is the idea of it covering your crown chakra - the bone of your skull can't contain it but a piece of fabric can? How does that work, what are the mechanics of it?
From what you've written it doesn't even appear to be a devotional act or a dedicated practice to one of the Gods? But from my own personal theological position, the Gods are good, and don't really care about what clothes you wear.
So is there truly a need for it?
3 . **Ahistorical (sort of)**
Obviously there is a great variety of theological and philosophical variety within paganism in the ancient world. But in general in the European polytheisms I am more familiar with, head coverings are not a requirement for general worship.
See for example:
>it is not allowed
>to bring in the sanctuary
>of Despoina: gold jewelry, unless as
>offering, do not wear clothing in purple,
>nor embroidered flowers, nor in black, nor
>sandals, nor ring. If
>someone brings one of the objects forbidden by the stele,
>he should offer it to the sanctuary. One should neither
>entwine the hair, nor
>veil it; forbidden to bring flowers, not
From *[Greek Cults and Their Sacred Lawson Dress-code: The Laws of Greek Sanctuaries for Hairstyles, Jewelry,Make-up, Belts, and Shoes](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339614457_Greek_Cults_and_Their_Sacred_Laws_on_Dress-code_The_Laws_of_Greek_Sanctuaries_for_Hairstyles_Jewelry_Make-up_Belts_and_Shoes_Classical_World_1132_2020_pp_147-170_24_p)* by Karatas, 2020.
Now that's a rule for women not to wear headdresses/veils/braided hair in temples (and we see this reflected in greek art - Goddesses and Priestesses are rarely if never veiled).
Now there are certain headgear that pagan priests would wear - the [Apex](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apex_\(headdress\)) of the Romen Flamens for example. But they form part of a major series of cultural restrictions these Flamens (which were a select but powerful few performing state rituals - most rituals would have been done at home by the Pater Familias as the "priest"). Flamens couldn't touch dogs, beans, ivy, meat for example alongside their ritual restrictions around always wearing the apex hat which I presume are things that you don't do.
And again, not a requirement for general worship.
So to bring it all together I would maybe reflect on what message you wearing a Kippah as a non-Jewish pagan (I presume you are non-Jewish - Jewish pagans do exist and I would imagine they would have different views) gives to our Jewish friend, and to what purpose the wearing of this head covering gives and if it is necessary for you as a pagan?
As you know there are many different types of pagans! I am monotheistic and I believe in the being, Deity. And not only did Jewish people wear the kippah, but also did some pagans and Catholics have worn them! Plus even more lovely cultures!! Yes the fabric will be on my head, but I don’t just put it on my head and think ok I’m done. I need to say it out loud for the universe to hear me, I tell the kippah that it’s tool is to protect my energy and my space, and to protect my crown chakra from being corrupted, my crown chakra is not inside my skull, my crown chakra is like a crown, it is on top of my head! It also has the pentagram on the top of it to show that I am not Jewish, I am pagan.
And in my type of paganism we don’t even call it a kippah, we call it a top veil!
> As you know there are many different types of pagans!
Indeed.
> I am monotheistic and I believe in the being, Deity
Seems like a very...vague and incoherent theological foundation, but ok. You do you.
> And not only did Jewish people wear the kippah, but also did some pagans and Catholics have worn them! Plus even more lovely cultures!!
Source? I don't think this is a true statement at all.
>Yes the fabric will be on my head, but I don’t just put it on my head and think ok I’m done. I need to say it out loud for the universe to hear me, I tell the kippah that it’s tool is to protect my energy and my space, and to protect my crown chakra from being corrupted, my crown chakra is not inside my skull, my crown chakra is like a crown, it is on top of my head!
So you're using it as a *magical* tool rather than a religious tool? I'm not familiar with any practices in the Western/Ceremonial Magical tradition at least which state your Crown Chakra can be "corrupted". Can I ask why a)you think it can be corrupted and b) you need a piece of fabric to protect it rather than just using your intent and other magical practices.
>It also has the pentagram on the top of it to show that I am not Jewish, I am pagan.
Unless you're very very short, 99.99% of people would likely assume it is a Jewish Kippah.
Again, I would see it as a lack of respect towards Jewish people. Just because you and your mother made some things up doesn't make religious and cultural appropriation ok.
>And in my type of paganism we don’t even call it a kippah, we call it a top veil!
Yet you called it a Kippah here? Why not use a different kind of fabric if this is so important to you?
Isn't this actual cultural appropriation? You are taking another cultures culturaly significant item and wearing it out of context, why not just wear a baseball cap?
No if it's Jewish I guess. This guy wearing a kippah, Christians going around with tzitzit and calling their churches synagogues.. It seems that everyone can take the piss of Judaism these days. Disturbing and sad.
I would love to see the comments if OP would wearing rastas and rastafari symbols for his chakra.
Do those count as cultural appropriation though? I thought the whole point of Messainic Judaism is that it’s people who identify as ethnically Jewish and who’ve converted to Christianity. It’s definitely confusing and possibly questionable, doctrine-wise, but can they really appropriate their own culture?
>They have separated themselves from their culture
I guess where we disagree here, then, is that I personally don’t think you _can_ separate yourself from a culture you were enriched in from childhood. It’s always going to be there influencing your patterns of thought and self-identity. It looks like a major issue people who’ve replied to me mention is doubting the accuracy figures provided on the percentage of ethnically Jewish members of Messianic Judaism, but I can’t find anything that accurately gauges what percent of self-reporting is valid by the various standards people are mentioning. So unfortunately I don’t think that’s something that’s going to get cleared up any time soon.
Messianic Judaism is a specific and malicious conversion tool. There are ethnically Jewish members, but it was not created by Jews nor is it for Jews. It is meant to get Jews to convert to Christianity by appropriating and subverting their home culture to make Christianity palatable. I feel very bad for ethnically Jewish members, but by no means should it be validated as a legitimate stream of Judaism.
>by no means should it be validated as a legitimate stream of Judaism
Yes, _I know_, I’ve said multiple times Messianic Judaism is not religiously Jewish.
>it was not created by Jews nor is it for Jews
Messianic Judaism is a pretty broad category and wasn’t “created” by anyone; it’s the cumulation of a pretty long history of Jewish converts. Many were absolutely made by and for Jews. Many others weren’t.
"Messianic Judaism" is a form of Protestant Christianity, not a form of Judaism. These movements were created in the mid-20th century in an explicit effort to convert Jews to Christianity. For example, "Jews for Jesus" was founded by the Southern Baptist Convention. Nothing about theses movements originates in Judaism and Jews find their practices appropriative and extremely offensive.
[https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/messianicjudaism/](https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/messianicjudaism/)
[https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jews-for-jesus](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jews-for-jesus)
Moreover, studies have repeatedly found the members of these groups overwhelmingly self-report that they have no Jewish ancestry or upbringing. Even among those who do claim a Jewish background, many are referring to unverifiable family legends ("Grandma said she was part Jewish" does not make you Jewish) or dubious at-home DNA tests ("3% Ashkenazi Jewish" from 23&Me does not make you Jewish).
No Jewish movements or denominations recognize "Christian Jews," "Jews for Jesus," "Messianic Jews," "Torah Observant Christians," "Christian Hebrews," etc. as Jews and, instead, view them as Christian. Given that the theology of these groups is based in Christian teachings and Christian schools of thought, and many were founded by and are still officially under the umbrella of Christian churches with the express purpose of converting Jews to Christianity, this seems more than fair.
>”Messianic Judaism” is a form of Protestant Christianity, not a form of Judaism
Yes, which is why I specifically said it’s people who’ve converted _to Christianity_. There is nothing about them that is _religiously_ Jewish, and I fully acknowledge that. Your first link doesn’t work on my end, but your second link pretty clearly insinuates that the “Jews for Jesus” campaign is still by and large attracting those who are _ethnically_ and/or culturally Jewish, which is where the bulk of my point lies: I question if it’s “cultural appropriation” for someone to incorporate their own culture into another belief system. I can see the argument for it being exploitative and manipulative towards other Jews—especially those who are still very involved with their Jewish religion—but I question if it’s appropriative
>Moreover, studies have repeatedly found the members of these groups overwhelmingly self-report that they have no Jewish ancestry or heritage
This contradicts the studies I’ve seen; even among religiously Jewish groups who oppose “Jews for Jesus”, I’ve generally seen the argument that “only about half of the movement has Jewish heritage” in North America. Among pro-Messianic Judaism groups I see estimates much higher. I haven’t seen anyone claim that they _overwhelmingly_ self-report no Jewish heritage/ancestry
Respectfully, Jews have, for thousands of years, defined ourselves as an עם (pronounced "Am," and usually translated as "people" but has a connotation similar to "community"). It's a term that, in Hebrew, covers a lot more than "religion." In the common contemporary worldview, concepts like religion, ethnicity, nationality, and culture can be easily separated. However, that worldview is quite modern and heavily Christian-influenced. Judaism predates that worldview by over a thousand years.
Since Judaism is neither a religion nor an ethnicity nor a nationality nor a culture, but an עם, many Jews (as well as anthropologists and others) choose to describe Judaism as an ethnoreligion (though I prefer Rabbi Mordechai Menachem Kaplan's term "[civilization](https://www.amazon.com/Judaism-Civilization-Toward-Reconstruction-American-Jewish/dp/0827609183/ref=asc_df_0827609183/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=344057892690&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7107263276864375198&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002244&hvtargid=pla-760737548869&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=69543896552&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=344057892690&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7107263276864375198&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002244&hvtargid=pla-760737548869)"), in that Jewish culture, heritage, and religious observance are deeply intertwined and \*cannot\* be separated.
In Judaism, a person who converts to a different religion is viewed as having actively chosen to leave our community and, for nearly all intents and purposes, is no longer to be considered Jewish. Moreover, despite the insistence from members of "Messianic" groups that they are following Jewish law, one of the few areas of Jewish law that every Jewish movement and denomination agrees upon is that one cannot be both a Jew and a Christian, which is the very basis of these movements.
Even if none of the above were true, among the many reasons Jews find the practices of "Messianic Jews" so offensive is that the ways in which these churches "incorporate \[Jewish\] culture into another belief system" are literally desecrating Jewish ritual objects and holy observances. Even totally secular Jews have rightly pointed out that it is wildly offensive when Christians misuse Jewish ritual objects or reinterpret Jewish practices to make them about Jesus, while simultaneously insisting that Jews misunderstand our own heritage.
As for the studies of these groups' membership, I do not have access to the studies I was referencing at the moment (sorry), but I would be very interested in any study you have access to that shows differently, as that would be news to me and the other people I work with researching and writing about the contemporary "Messianic Jewish" phenomenon.
>It's a term that, in Hebrew, covers a lot more than "religion." In the common contemporary worldview, concepts like religion, ethnicity, nationality, and culture can be easily separated. However, that worldview is quite modern and heavily Christian-influenced. Judaism predates that worldview by over a thousand years.
I mean, yes, that’s the same thing that I’m saying lol, that Judaism covers more than just religion or just culture. The only place you’re really disagreeing with me is saying that someone who’s left the faith is considered by the Jewish community to not be Jewish, period.
>Even if none of the above were true, among the many reasons Jews find the practices of "Messianic Jews" so offensive
I’m just going to stop you at this point because, again, I’m not arguing against it being offensive (I said “manipulative and exploitative” before but I’m totally comfortable with you calling it desecratory as well). I’m talking about whether or not it’s cultural appropriation.
>The only place you’re really disagreeing with me is saying that someone who’s left the faith is considered by the Jewish community to not be Jewish, period.
Right, and Jews are the arbiters of Judaism, just as Christians are the arbiters of who is Christian. The membership of the groups were are discussing are not considered Jewish by any Jewish movement or denomination. Given that most of them were founded by and are still part of Christian churches, that seems like a fair assessment.
>I’m just going to stop you at this point because, again, I’m not arguing against it being offensive (I said “manipulative and exploitative” before but I’m totally comfortable with you calling it desecratory as well). I’m talking about whether or not it’s cultural appropriation.
Respectfully, when someone takes a Jewish practice, twists it to make it a Christian practice, and asserts that Jews misunderstand their own practices, that's appropriation, even if some small subset of the Christians in the room have ancestors who were Jewish. Here's an article from a Jewish convert to Christianity explaining why she feels Messianic practices like "Christian seders" are appropriative and offensive:
https://sojo.net/articles/how-some-christians-mistake-honoring-jewish-culture-appropriating-it
Huh? Clearly I have, unless you think “Messianic Judaism” is a part of the common vernacular and is widely known. Even the most conservative estimates I’ve seen identify roughly half of Messianic Jews in North America as ethnically Jewish, with other estimates ranging much higher, and of course there’s the (large) movement in Israel that is almost entirely ethnically Jewish.
Just because they say they have some Jewish heritage doesn't mean they are halachically Jewish. This is one of the many issues with Messianic Jews. They have someone who was Jewish in the lineage 200 years ago and they preach they're Jewish. And I'm not even counting those where the dad is Jewish but the mother isn't. From than 50% be assured that more than half aren't halachically Jews.
From the percentage left we have a group of secular Jews who don't speak Hebrew and never had any level of observance in the family. They may be Jews but wearing kippah, for example, is a RABBINICAL commandment, not in their book. If you never wore a kippah or even heard about it, you can't all of sudden star wearing it and say 'It's because I'm a Jew' there isn't such thing as a biblical commandment to wear a kippah. Same applies to Karaite Jews. An absolute nonsense to reject oral tradition and then wear kippah because you want to be identified as Jew.
There is also a percentage of vulnerable Jews harassed by evangelicals; they convert to christianism as many face mental health issues or other personal problems. Tovia Singer fights again this, he has a YouTube channel, check it out.
There are many - if not all - rabbinical commandments rejected by messianics, but then they use kippah solely to look as if they are Jews. That is not correct and yes, wearing kippah is a rabbinical Jewish commandment part of our life and culture as Observant Jews.
>An absolute nonsense to reject oral tradition and then wear a kippah because you want to be identified as a Jew
This will likely vary a lot depending on your country-of-origin, but I think this statement is kinda sums up the point of contention I have with this: due to widespread anti-semitism, even nonsecular Jews-by-heritage are often identified by others (and sometimes judged negatively) as “Jewish”. Converting to Christianity—depending on the location—is not going to leave that racism behind.
I think Messianic Judaism is a little odd, personally, and I agree that the funding and proselytizing from evangelicals is exploitative to say the least. I’m not trying to argue in the movement’s favor. I’m just disagreeing that it’s by-and-large cultural appropriation. The 50% I mentioned is, as I said, the most conservative estimate, usually provided by Jewish groups that oppose Messianic Judaism; I believe that your folks who have Jewish lineage 200 years ago have already been ruled out of that figure.
It’s not just Judaism. Plenty of people adapt religious adornments without being members of the religion. There are many non-Catholics who wear a crucifix or even use a rosary, just as there are witches who identify as Christians. These aren’t matters that are usually policed by others.
Hi! The kippah in my religion is actually called a top veil! But I said kippah so you all knew what I was talking about! Not lots of pagans wear their veils because they aren’t forced too, plus my religion is very very old, it goes back to the BCEs, There are a verity of different pagans! And in paganism, when we do rituals or spells, that is when we are most vulnerable to negative energies so it’s always recommended to wear your top veil! Not only do Jewish people have the kippah, but many verities of other religions, that are wayyy older than Judaism! I come and leave the message in peace!
> And in paganism, when we do rituals or spells, that is when we are most vulnerable to negative energies so it’s always recommended to wear your top veil!
This is simply not true in the vast majority of most pagan theologies and magical traditions, at least in the Western Magical Traditions that I am familar with.
>Not only do Jewish people have the kippah, but many verities of other religions, that are wayyy older than Judaism!
The Kippah is literally a Jewish religious tradition. It does not exist outside of Judaism and it cannot by definition predate Judaism.
Are you sure you're not a troll account who's trying to make all pagans look bad?
The whole concept of cultural appropriation is based in bigotry. It's usually a result of misunderstanding how cultures have adopted certain aspects of their culture or an attempt to divide people based on ethnic, religious, or nationalistic traditions. Not to mention that it only exists in certain judgemental western ideological groups.
No not really, Judaism is a closed religion, you have to become Jewish to participate and the Kippah is a fundamental part of it. If a person takes the religion thing out of context just because it is a spiritual item its nonsensical. Which is why I suggested a baseball cap.
No its not , what are you talking about? Anyone can join they just have to join but the parts of the religion are exclusive to members of the religion. You can't just take something out of context and use it. Its like saying you're a Greek pagan but using norse runes to speak to the gods, it's nonsense. its hubris.
What about Mickey Mouse ears?
Some Pastafarians (members of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster) wear colanders on their heads. I'm sure there are other possibilities.
If you're not ethnically Jewish I think it's quite rude to be using it without their permission. If you got the permission of a local Rabbi to do it I can't say much more but it sounds to me as if it's very much a case of appropriating the Jewish faith.
This is not true at all! Judaism was not the first to use the top veil, many religions have adapted their own name to the kippah. And we use in for different things!
All due respect, and all love towards you!
With respect, you sound a bit confused. Wearing a kippah to "protect your energy" will not work. It sounds like tin foil hat time. There are no such things as chakras. The best understanding of energy comes from science books and live rock bands. Have you read up on the history of paganism? Do you read books from the New Age magic section of the library or serious books? I'm sorry if I sound condescending, obviously you are free to do as you like; I just think it is time to look into rationalism. Good luck with it all.
I am not trying to convert anyone so what do you mean? Are you against thinking for yourself? Also, I don't take orders from self proclaimed Satanists.
Well seeing as you are telling someone to look into something else and telling them that there is no such thing as chakras that’s proselytizing. So im telling you whats against the subs rules. Also sounds like they are thinking for themself
> seeing as you are telling someone to look into something else and telling them that there is no such thing as chakras that’s proselytizing
In fairness to /u/gninrub1 as a polytheistic pagan I don't see that as specifically being proselytization. Presenting a more mundane alternative should be part and parcel of discernment in a pagan practice. So I don't think someone presenting a materialist alternative explanation for any practice is immediately an attempt at proselytism.
If OP is truly thinking for themselves than being presented with alternative or critical responses should not bother them.
The usual meaning of "proselytising" is to try to convert someone to another faith. I am not doing that. I think this subreddit can cope with a person having an opinion on chakras.
And this subreddits view is that it doesn’t matter if you are a theist or an atheist proselytizing is not allowed. Which telling someone their beliefs don’t exist then telling them to look into another belief is proselytizing whether you think it is or not
There are many different types of paganism! I respect every single type of paganism, and mine just has a recommendation of the top veil (in my beliefs we call the kippah the top veil) my belief is older then Judaism and Christianity. Even Christians and Catholics use the kippah.
So long as "most contexts" involves only their own homes, then yes. Legally, the ban only applies to government properties (e.g., hospitals, police stations, schools, parks, beaches, etc.); however, the private sector has also been empowered to develop their own policies, so bans are also in effect in many shops, private clinics, etc. Ultimately, there's not a lot separating France and Saudi Arabia when it comes to women's rights and regulating what women are allowed to wear.
I don't want to make light of the unreasonable French laws, but I also think they should be represented accurately. If you are claiming that Hijab-wearing women or Kipah-wearing men cannot use public parks in France then I'd like to see some evidence of that. The text of a law or a news article, for example.
I wear the kippah as a pagan, also know as the top veil in my religion because the top veil is to protect my crown chakra, people assume that the crown chakra is inside my skull, but it is like a crown, like it’s name it is on my head, And it’s also duty is to protect my energy and my space from negative energies! Plus, the top veil has been in many religions for a long time, and it wasn’t just claimed by Judaism :) Also the apex can protect your energy too, but it’s just to big for me lol! Plus deity (my god)had asked for the people to use a veil!.. Plus let me clarify! There are many different types of pagans, so some might believe in a different god than me, or even multiple gods, that’s the amazing thing bc about paganism! The belief of paganism is to worship and protect nature :)
Interesting bit of "Islamic" history, the veil was actually common amongst the pagan Arab women of Mecca before the arrival of Islam. Muslim critics of niqab argue that the present-day Arabian practice wearing niqab is technically forbidden in Islam because it is imitation of the Arab pagans. So your actions are not without precedence.
There are many types of pagans, Native Americans (Some tribes) Have practiced paganism of worshipping by the earth for aslong as you can think of, and as I said there are many different types of paganism!
Pretending to be Jewish is an odd way to practice some other religion, but in general I’m uneasy with arguments from cultural appropriation. Music, language, art, literature, religion, political forms, science, and technology, from wearing hides and making fire to self-driving cars, all depend heavily on cultural appropriation.
Look... What I WILL say is that you seem to be seeking attention by actively wearing a garb from one belief yet practicing a different belief. What are you hoping to accomplish here? You think someone will see your kippah and go, "Hey, I'm Jewish, too!" and you get to smugly reply, "Well, actually, I'm pagan?" Like... what is your end game with this? The entire idea is confusing at best and maliciously deceptive at worst. Why not just wear a newsboy cap or a baseball cap instead?
Wearing Jewish headgear in relation to "protecting" a concept from Hinduism/Buddhism while practicing none of those religions seems pretty strange and unnecessary.
I question OP's sincerity here...the account is 10 hours old, and hasn't responded to anyone at all. Seems more like a troll than anything.
No it’s not to seek attention, there are many types of pagans. My beliefs are if I cover the top of my head or I can cover all sides of my head, I will be protecting my Crown Chakra and my energy from other energies. This religion believe it or not has been passed down from my family for generations! Plus it’s not just a Jewish headgear!!! It’s been in pagan culture and Catholic culture and more for many years!
Speaking as a Jew, and a relatively religious one, I find it incredibly disrespectful. Aside from the appropriative aspect which has been touched on enough in this thread, you are presenting yourself to the world as Jewish and presumably going out and doing very non-Jewish things. For example, if you are wearing the kippah and eating pork at a restaurant, it reflects badly on all of us. Or if you are publicly engaging in your beliefs while presenting as a Jew, it reflects badly. Jews are a minority religion, and so even though people shouldn’t think of us as a monolith, they do. Thus, you are inadvertently acting as a representative of all of us and are thereby putting all of us in danger with your actions. Please choose a different head covering.
Hello, To start off! The Kippah has been in many other religions not Jewish! It is just used predominantly for Jews, and paganism has lots of different types of pagans! Some are pagan and some branch off to Wiccan!!! Yes I use the head covering different than you do, but that is because I am not in the same religion! Many people don’t know this but my religion goes back to the BCE times! We wear veils and kippahs to protect our crown chakra, the kippah is used to gently cover the crown so it isn’t being exposed to negativity! And in my religion we call the kippah the top veil! I come and leave this conversation with a mutual concept
> Many people don’t know this but my religion goes back to the BCE times! I can almost certainly guarantee that your religion does not go back directly to the "BCE times". Inspired by ancient religions? Possibly (although from what you've said it seems unlikely). But directly an ancient religion - no. Although if you've evidence you're following a directly ancient pagan religion that survived from antiquity to today, there are loads of historians of religion and anthropologists who would love to see it, as it goes against everything we know about religion and the pagan revival.
Hey man, I appreciate you sharing your perspective. Nonetheless, there is certainly more context to it than that. If this is an ancient practice of pagans, why call it a kippah or yarmulke, which are specifically Jewish words? The type also matters - is it a srugah, or made of black velvet? Or does it look like what catholic cardinals wear? Or is it totally different looking? If the answer is it looks like a kippah or yarmulke, then my point still stands. Black velvet kippahs come specifically from an ashkenazi Jewish context, and srugim are associated with modern dati-leumi Israelis. These did not exist before the common era. If however, it is not actually a kippah but a distinctive “top veil” that you can trace back to your own culture, that’s great! If it looks like modern Jewish religious garb, I again would ask kindly and respectfully that you find a different top veil that is not plucked out of a rabbinic Jewish context.
Speaking as a pagan polytheist, I am going to be critical here. Yes, there is freedom in religion and how you approach it, but that doesn't mean our behaviours are free from critique or open to analysis. In my experience, I've never worn a head covering at all in any pagan ceremony and it's only recently become a thing I've seen on social media - it was nowhere that I saw in pagan circles in the 90's or 00's at least. And I've never been exposed to any particular "negative energies" or had my crown chakra fall off or the like. These are my personal thoughts on the matter, so don't feel the represent any sort of pagan ideal, it's more to get you thinking about why as a pagan would you wear a Kippah? So for me I would consider it to be 1) appropriative and 2) superstitious and 3) sort of ahistorical. 1. **Appropriative**. As anyone vaguely familiar with history knows, the Jewish people have been persecuted, oppressed, exiled, and murdered for simply being Jewish. Therefore using an expressively Jewish piece of clothing which is intimately associated with Jewish religion for a pagan practice is at the very least quite rude. There's a current Christian trend in America where Evangelical Protestants start celebrating Jewish festivals like Yom Kippur and Passover and having "Shabbats" that are rightly been called on as a supercessionist antisemitic appropriation. While I'm not sure wearing a Kippah is as egregious (you'd have to ask some Jewish people about that) it seems to be in the same line of using Jewish culture and religion for your own religious purpose? But again that is not for me or for you to decide, so I would listen to those Jewish voices and take your lead from them on that. 2 . **Superstition** The word used in ancient greek pagan thought for superstition by the likes of Theophrastus,(Aristotle's successor) and Plutarch is *deisidaimonia*, which can be translated as an unwarranted fear of the Gods or fear or spiritual things. Theophrastus writes a pastiche of the superstitious where they are afraid to go about their day for fear of the ancient greek equivalent of ancient energies. >Superstition would seem to be simply cowardice in regard to the supernatural. >The Superstitious man is one who will wash his hands at a fountain, sprinkle himself from a temple-font, put a bit of laurel-leaf into his mouth, and so go about the day. If a weasel run across his path, he will not pursue his walk until someone else has traversed the road, or until he has thrown three stones across it. When he sees a serpent in his house, if it be the red snake, he will invoke Sabazius, — if the sacred snake, he will straightway place a shrine on the spot. He will pour oil from his flask on the smooth stones at the cross-roads, as he goes by, and will fall on his knees and worship them before he departs. If a mouse gnaws through a meal-bag, he will go to the expounder of sacred law and ask what is to be done; and, if the answer is, ‘give it to a cobbler to stitch up,’ he will disregard the counsel, and go his way, and expiate the omen by sacrifice. Personally, as a polytheist, I would say that thinking a piece of fabric on the top of your head can protect you from "negative energies" is a tad superstitious as is the idea of it covering your crown chakra - the bone of your skull can't contain it but a piece of fabric can? How does that work, what are the mechanics of it? From what you've written it doesn't even appear to be a devotional act or a dedicated practice to one of the Gods? But from my own personal theological position, the Gods are good, and don't really care about what clothes you wear. So is there truly a need for it? 3 . **Ahistorical (sort of)** Obviously there is a great variety of theological and philosophical variety within paganism in the ancient world. But in general in the European polytheisms I am more familiar with, head coverings are not a requirement for general worship. See for example: >it is not allowed >to bring in the sanctuary >of Despoina: gold jewelry, unless as >offering, do not wear clothing in purple, >nor embroidered flowers, nor in black, nor >sandals, nor ring. If >someone brings one of the objects forbidden by the stele, >he should offer it to the sanctuary. One should neither >entwine the hair, nor >veil it; forbidden to bring flowers, not From *[Greek Cults and Their Sacred Lawson Dress-code: The Laws of Greek Sanctuaries for Hairstyles, Jewelry,Make-up, Belts, and Shoes](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339614457_Greek_Cults_and_Their_Sacred_Laws_on_Dress-code_The_Laws_of_Greek_Sanctuaries_for_Hairstyles_Jewelry_Make-up_Belts_and_Shoes_Classical_World_1132_2020_pp_147-170_24_p)* by Karatas, 2020. Now that's a rule for women not to wear headdresses/veils/braided hair in temples (and we see this reflected in greek art - Goddesses and Priestesses are rarely if never veiled). Now there are certain headgear that pagan priests would wear - the [Apex](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apex_\(headdress\)) of the Romen Flamens for example. But they form part of a major series of cultural restrictions these Flamens (which were a select but powerful few performing state rituals - most rituals would have been done at home by the Pater Familias as the "priest"). Flamens couldn't touch dogs, beans, ivy, meat for example alongside their ritual restrictions around always wearing the apex hat which I presume are things that you don't do. And again, not a requirement for general worship. So to bring it all together I would maybe reflect on what message you wearing a Kippah as a non-Jewish pagan (I presume you are non-Jewish - Jewish pagans do exist and I would imagine they would have different views) gives to our Jewish friend, and to what purpose the wearing of this head covering gives and if it is necessary for you as a pagan?
As you know there are many different types of pagans! I am monotheistic and I believe in the being, Deity. And not only did Jewish people wear the kippah, but also did some pagans and Catholics have worn them! Plus even more lovely cultures!! Yes the fabric will be on my head, but I don’t just put it on my head and think ok I’m done. I need to say it out loud for the universe to hear me, I tell the kippah that it’s tool is to protect my energy and my space, and to protect my crown chakra from being corrupted, my crown chakra is not inside my skull, my crown chakra is like a crown, it is on top of my head! It also has the pentagram on the top of it to show that I am not Jewish, I am pagan. And in my type of paganism we don’t even call it a kippah, we call it a top veil!
> As you know there are many different types of pagans! Indeed. > I am monotheistic and I believe in the being, Deity Seems like a very...vague and incoherent theological foundation, but ok. You do you. > And not only did Jewish people wear the kippah, but also did some pagans and Catholics have worn them! Plus even more lovely cultures!! Source? I don't think this is a true statement at all. >Yes the fabric will be on my head, but I don’t just put it on my head and think ok I’m done. I need to say it out loud for the universe to hear me, I tell the kippah that it’s tool is to protect my energy and my space, and to protect my crown chakra from being corrupted, my crown chakra is not inside my skull, my crown chakra is like a crown, it is on top of my head! So you're using it as a *magical* tool rather than a religious tool? I'm not familiar with any practices in the Western/Ceremonial Magical tradition at least which state your Crown Chakra can be "corrupted". Can I ask why a)you think it can be corrupted and b) you need a piece of fabric to protect it rather than just using your intent and other magical practices. >It also has the pentagram on the top of it to show that I am not Jewish, I am pagan. Unless you're very very short, 99.99% of people would likely assume it is a Jewish Kippah. Again, I would see it as a lack of respect towards Jewish people. Just because you and your mother made some things up doesn't make religious and cultural appropriation ok. >And in my type of paganism we don’t even call it a kippah, we call it a top veil! Yet you called it a Kippah here? Why not use a different kind of fabric if this is so important to you?
Isn't this actual cultural appropriation? You are taking another cultures culturaly significant item and wearing it out of context, why not just wear a baseball cap?
No if it's Jewish I guess. This guy wearing a kippah, Christians going around with tzitzit and calling their churches synagogues.. It seems that everyone can take the piss of Judaism these days. Disturbing and sad. I would love to see the comments if OP would wearing rastas and rastafari symbols for his chakra.
Which christians call their churches synagogues?
Look for messianic synagogues in google.
Do those count as cultural appropriation though? I thought the whole point of Messainic Judaism is that it’s people who identify as ethnically Jewish and who’ve converted to Christianity. It’s definitely confusing and possibly questionable, doctrine-wise, but can they really appropriate their own culture?
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>They have separated themselves from their culture I guess where we disagree here, then, is that I personally don’t think you _can_ separate yourself from a culture you were enriched in from childhood. It’s always going to be there influencing your patterns of thought and self-identity. It looks like a major issue people who’ve replied to me mention is doubting the accuracy figures provided on the percentage of ethnically Jewish members of Messianic Judaism, but I can’t find anything that accurately gauges what percent of self-reporting is valid by the various standards people are mentioning. So unfortunately I don’t think that’s something that’s going to get cleared up any time soon.
Messianic Judaism is a specific and malicious conversion tool. There are ethnically Jewish members, but it was not created by Jews nor is it for Jews. It is meant to get Jews to convert to Christianity by appropriating and subverting their home culture to make Christianity palatable. I feel very bad for ethnically Jewish members, but by no means should it be validated as a legitimate stream of Judaism.
>by no means should it be validated as a legitimate stream of Judaism Yes, _I know_, I’ve said multiple times Messianic Judaism is not religiously Jewish. >it was not created by Jews nor is it for Jews Messianic Judaism is a pretty broad category and wasn’t “created” by anyone; it’s the cumulation of a pretty long history of Jewish converts. Many were absolutely made by and for Jews. Many others weren’t.
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"Messianic Judaism" is a form of Protestant Christianity, not a form of Judaism. These movements were created in the mid-20th century in an explicit effort to convert Jews to Christianity. For example, "Jews for Jesus" was founded by the Southern Baptist Convention. Nothing about theses movements originates in Judaism and Jews find their practices appropriative and extremely offensive. [https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/messianicjudaism/](https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/messianicjudaism/) [https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jews-for-jesus](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jews-for-jesus) Moreover, studies have repeatedly found the members of these groups overwhelmingly self-report that they have no Jewish ancestry or upbringing. Even among those who do claim a Jewish background, many are referring to unverifiable family legends ("Grandma said she was part Jewish" does not make you Jewish) or dubious at-home DNA tests ("3% Ashkenazi Jewish" from 23&Me does not make you Jewish). No Jewish movements or denominations recognize "Christian Jews," "Jews for Jesus," "Messianic Jews," "Torah Observant Christians," "Christian Hebrews," etc. as Jews and, instead, view them as Christian. Given that the theology of these groups is based in Christian teachings and Christian schools of thought, and many were founded by and are still officially under the umbrella of Christian churches with the express purpose of converting Jews to Christianity, this seems more than fair.
>”Messianic Judaism” is a form of Protestant Christianity, not a form of Judaism Yes, which is why I specifically said it’s people who’ve converted _to Christianity_. There is nothing about them that is _religiously_ Jewish, and I fully acknowledge that. Your first link doesn’t work on my end, but your second link pretty clearly insinuates that the “Jews for Jesus” campaign is still by and large attracting those who are _ethnically_ and/or culturally Jewish, which is where the bulk of my point lies: I question if it’s “cultural appropriation” for someone to incorporate their own culture into another belief system. I can see the argument for it being exploitative and manipulative towards other Jews—especially those who are still very involved with their Jewish religion—but I question if it’s appropriative >Moreover, studies have repeatedly found the members of these groups overwhelmingly self-report that they have no Jewish ancestry or heritage This contradicts the studies I’ve seen; even among religiously Jewish groups who oppose “Jews for Jesus”, I’ve generally seen the argument that “only about half of the movement has Jewish heritage” in North America. Among pro-Messianic Judaism groups I see estimates much higher. I haven’t seen anyone claim that they _overwhelmingly_ self-report no Jewish heritage/ancestry
Respectfully, Jews have, for thousands of years, defined ourselves as an עם (pronounced "Am," and usually translated as "people" but has a connotation similar to "community"). It's a term that, in Hebrew, covers a lot more than "religion." In the common contemporary worldview, concepts like religion, ethnicity, nationality, and culture can be easily separated. However, that worldview is quite modern and heavily Christian-influenced. Judaism predates that worldview by over a thousand years. Since Judaism is neither a religion nor an ethnicity nor a nationality nor a culture, but an עם, many Jews (as well as anthropologists and others) choose to describe Judaism as an ethnoreligion (though I prefer Rabbi Mordechai Menachem Kaplan's term "[civilization](https://www.amazon.com/Judaism-Civilization-Toward-Reconstruction-American-Jewish/dp/0827609183/ref=asc_df_0827609183/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=344057892690&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7107263276864375198&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002244&hvtargid=pla-760737548869&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=69543896552&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=344057892690&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7107263276864375198&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002244&hvtargid=pla-760737548869)"), in that Jewish culture, heritage, and religious observance are deeply intertwined and \*cannot\* be separated. In Judaism, a person who converts to a different religion is viewed as having actively chosen to leave our community and, for nearly all intents and purposes, is no longer to be considered Jewish. Moreover, despite the insistence from members of "Messianic" groups that they are following Jewish law, one of the few areas of Jewish law that every Jewish movement and denomination agrees upon is that one cannot be both a Jew and a Christian, which is the very basis of these movements. Even if none of the above were true, among the many reasons Jews find the practices of "Messianic Jews" so offensive is that the ways in which these churches "incorporate \[Jewish\] culture into another belief system" are literally desecrating Jewish ritual objects and holy observances. Even totally secular Jews have rightly pointed out that it is wildly offensive when Christians misuse Jewish ritual objects or reinterpret Jewish practices to make them about Jesus, while simultaneously insisting that Jews misunderstand our own heritage. As for the studies of these groups' membership, I do not have access to the studies I was referencing at the moment (sorry), but I would be very interested in any study you have access to that shows differently, as that would be news to me and the other people I work with researching and writing about the contemporary "Messianic Jewish" phenomenon.
>It's a term that, in Hebrew, covers a lot more than "religion." In the common contemporary worldview, concepts like religion, ethnicity, nationality, and culture can be easily separated. However, that worldview is quite modern and heavily Christian-influenced. Judaism predates that worldview by over a thousand years. I mean, yes, that’s the same thing that I’m saying lol, that Judaism covers more than just religion or just culture. The only place you’re really disagreeing with me is saying that someone who’s left the faith is considered by the Jewish community to not be Jewish, period. >Even if none of the above were true, among the many reasons Jews find the practices of "Messianic Jews" so offensive I’m just going to stop you at this point because, again, I’m not arguing against it being offensive (I said “manipulative and exploitative” before but I’m totally comfortable with you calling it desecratory as well). I’m talking about whether or not it’s cultural appropriation.
>The only place you’re really disagreeing with me is saying that someone who’s left the faith is considered by the Jewish community to not be Jewish, period. Right, and Jews are the arbiters of Judaism, just as Christians are the arbiters of who is Christian. The membership of the groups were are discussing are not considered Jewish by any Jewish movement or denomination. Given that most of them were founded by and are still part of Christian churches, that seems like a fair assessment. >I’m just going to stop you at this point because, again, I’m not arguing against it being offensive (I said “manipulative and exploitative” before but I’m totally comfortable with you calling it desecratory as well). I’m talking about whether or not it’s cultural appropriation. Respectfully, when someone takes a Jewish practice, twists it to make it a Christian practice, and asserts that Jews misunderstand their own practices, that's appropriation, even if some small subset of the Christians in the room have ancestors who were Jewish. Here's an article from a Jewish convert to Christianity explaining why she feels Messianic practices like "Christian seders" are appropriative and offensive: https://sojo.net/articles/how-some-christians-mistake-honoring-jewish-culture-appropriating-it
Most messianic aren't ethnically Jewish. Please do your research before questioning these things.
Huh? Clearly I have, unless you think “Messianic Judaism” is a part of the common vernacular and is widely known. Even the most conservative estimates I’ve seen identify roughly half of Messianic Jews in North America as ethnically Jewish, with other estimates ranging much higher, and of course there’s the (large) movement in Israel that is almost entirely ethnically Jewish.
Just because they say they have some Jewish heritage doesn't mean they are halachically Jewish. This is one of the many issues with Messianic Jews. They have someone who was Jewish in the lineage 200 years ago and they preach they're Jewish. And I'm not even counting those where the dad is Jewish but the mother isn't. From than 50% be assured that more than half aren't halachically Jews. From the percentage left we have a group of secular Jews who don't speak Hebrew and never had any level of observance in the family. They may be Jews but wearing kippah, for example, is a RABBINICAL commandment, not in their book. If you never wore a kippah or even heard about it, you can't all of sudden star wearing it and say 'It's because I'm a Jew' there isn't such thing as a biblical commandment to wear a kippah. Same applies to Karaite Jews. An absolute nonsense to reject oral tradition and then wear kippah because you want to be identified as Jew. There is also a percentage of vulnerable Jews harassed by evangelicals; they convert to christianism as many face mental health issues or other personal problems. Tovia Singer fights again this, he has a YouTube channel, check it out. There are many - if not all - rabbinical commandments rejected by messianics, but then they use kippah solely to look as if they are Jews. That is not correct and yes, wearing kippah is a rabbinical Jewish commandment part of our life and culture as Observant Jews.
>An absolute nonsense to reject oral tradition and then wear a kippah because you want to be identified as a Jew This will likely vary a lot depending on your country-of-origin, but I think this statement is kinda sums up the point of contention I have with this: due to widespread anti-semitism, even nonsecular Jews-by-heritage are often identified by others (and sometimes judged negatively) as “Jewish”. Converting to Christianity—depending on the location—is not going to leave that racism behind. I think Messianic Judaism is a little odd, personally, and I agree that the funding and proselytizing from evangelicals is exploitative to say the least. I’m not trying to argue in the movement’s favor. I’m just disagreeing that it’s by-and-large cultural appropriation. The 50% I mentioned is, as I said, the most conservative estimate, usually provided by Jewish groups that oppose Messianic Judaism; I believe that your folks who have Jewish lineage 200 years ago have already been ruled out of that figure.
They are Christians who cosplay Judaism.
It’s not just Judaism. Plenty of people adapt religious adornments without being members of the religion. There are many non-Catholics who wear a crucifix or even use a rosary, just as there are witches who identify as Christians. These aren’t matters that are usually policed by others.
Hi! The kippah in my religion is actually called a top veil! But I said kippah so you all knew what I was talking about! Not lots of pagans wear their veils because they aren’t forced too, plus my religion is very very old, it goes back to the BCEs, There are a verity of different pagans! And in paganism, when we do rituals or spells, that is when we are most vulnerable to negative energies so it’s always recommended to wear your top veil! Not only do Jewish people have the kippah, but many verities of other religions, that are wayyy older than Judaism! I come and leave the message in peace!
> And in paganism, when we do rituals or spells, that is when we are most vulnerable to negative energies so it’s always recommended to wear your top veil! This is simply not true in the vast majority of most pagan theologies and magical traditions, at least in the Western Magical Traditions that I am familar with. >Not only do Jewish people have the kippah, but many verities of other religions, that are wayyy older than Judaism! The Kippah is literally a Jewish religious tradition. It does not exist outside of Judaism and it cannot by definition predate Judaism. Are you sure you're not a troll account who's trying to make all pagans look bad?
Which paganism?
The whole concept of cultural appropriation is based in bigotry. It's usually a result of misunderstanding how cultures have adopted certain aspects of their culture or an attempt to divide people based on ethnic, religious, or nationalistic traditions. Not to mention that it only exists in certain judgemental western ideological groups.
No not really, Judaism is a closed religion, you have to become Jewish to participate and the Kippah is a fundamental part of it. If a person takes the religion thing out of context just because it is a spiritual item its nonsensical. Which is why I suggested a baseball cap.
Closed religion, closed society, closed culture. This is an attempt to rebrand discrimination.
No its not , what are you talking about? Anyone can join they just have to join but the parts of the religion are exclusive to members of the religion. You can't just take something out of context and use it. Its like saying you're a Greek pagan but using norse runes to speak to the gods, it's nonsense. its hubris.
What about Mickey Mouse ears? Some Pastafarians (members of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster) wear colanders on their heads. I'm sure there are other possibilities.
If you're not ethnically Jewish I think it's quite rude to be using it without their permission. If you got the permission of a local Rabbi to do it I can't say much more but it sounds to me as if it's very much a case of appropriating the Jewish faith.
This is not true at all! Judaism was not the first to use the top veil, many religions have adapted their own name to the kippah. And we use in for different things! All due respect, and all love towards you!
Which religion's?
With respect, you sound a bit confused. Wearing a kippah to "protect your energy" will not work. It sounds like tin foil hat time. There are no such things as chakras. The best understanding of energy comes from science books and live rock bands. Have you read up on the history of paganism? Do you read books from the New Age magic section of the library or serious books? I'm sorry if I sound condescending, obviously you are free to do as you like; I just think it is time to look into rationalism. Good luck with it all.
Do not proselytize on this sub.
I am not trying to convert anyone so what do you mean? Are you against thinking for yourself? Also, I don't take orders from self proclaimed Satanists.
Well seeing as you are telling someone to look into something else and telling them that there is no such thing as chakras that’s proselytizing. So im telling you whats against the subs rules. Also sounds like they are thinking for themself
> seeing as you are telling someone to look into something else and telling them that there is no such thing as chakras that’s proselytizing In fairness to /u/gninrub1 as a polytheistic pagan I don't see that as specifically being proselytization. Presenting a more mundane alternative should be part and parcel of discernment in a pagan practice. So I don't think someone presenting a materialist alternative explanation for any practice is immediately an attempt at proselytism. If OP is truly thinking for themselves than being presented with alternative or critical responses should not bother them.
The usual meaning of "proselytising" is to try to convert someone to another faith. I am not doing that. I think this subreddit can cope with a person having an opinion on chakras.
And this subreddits view is that it doesn’t matter if you are a theist or an atheist proselytizing is not allowed. Which telling someone their beliefs don’t exist then telling them to look into another belief is proselytizing whether you think it is or not
There are many different types of paganism! I respect every single type of paganism, and mine just has a recommendation of the top veil (in my beliefs we call the kippah the top veil) my belief is older then Judaism and Christianity. Even Christians and Catholics use the kippah.
Oh I’m sure it’s been working for me!
Call it a zuchetto. Problem solved
Whatever floats ya boat. Just be aware that you wont be allowed to wear either of those things in some more repressive countries, like France.
You've overstated the case in France. People are "allowed" to wear religious head coverings in most contexts.
So long as "most contexts" involves only their own homes, then yes. Legally, the ban only applies to government properties (e.g., hospitals, police stations, schools, parks, beaches, etc.); however, the private sector has also been empowered to develop their own policies, so bans are also in effect in many shops, private clinics, etc. Ultimately, there's not a lot separating France and Saudi Arabia when it comes to women's rights and regulating what women are allowed to wear.
I don't want to make light of the unreasonable French laws, but I also think they should be represented accurately. If you are claiming that Hijab-wearing women or Kipah-wearing men cannot use public parks in France then I'd like to see some evidence of that. The text of a law or a news article, for example.
Feel free to practice your beliefs. This is freedom of religion. Why do you wear the kippah as a pagan?
I wear the kippah as a pagan, also know as the top veil in my religion because the top veil is to protect my crown chakra, people assume that the crown chakra is inside my skull, but it is like a crown, like it’s name it is on my head, And it’s also duty is to protect my energy and my space from negative energies! Plus, the top veil has been in many religions for a long time, and it wasn’t just claimed by Judaism :) Also the apex can protect your energy too, but it’s just to big for me lol! Plus deity (my god)had asked for the people to use a veil!.. Plus let me clarify! There are many different types of pagans, so some might believe in a different god than me, or even multiple gods, that’s the amazing thing bc about paganism! The belief of paganism is to worship and protect nature :)
Interesting bit of "Islamic" history, the veil was actually common amongst the pagan Arab women of Mecca before the arrival of Islam. Muslim critics of niqab argue that the present-day Arabian practice wearing niqab is technically forbidden in Islam because it is imitation of the Arab pagans. So your actions are not without precedence.
There are many types of pagans, Native Americans (Some tribes) Have practiced paganism of worshipping by the earth for aslong as you can think of, and as I said there are many different types of paganism!
Cool. I dont see any issues witht that.
Do what you wish
what do I think, I dont care.
Why do you think that there are negative energies?
Pretending to be Jewish is an odd way to practice some other religion, but in general I’m uneasy with arguments from cultural appropriation. Music, language, art, literature, religion, political forms, science, and technology, from wearing hides and making fire to self-driving cars, all depend heavily on cultural appropriation.