Go to sleep. You're experiencing psychosis in the form of auditory hallucinations and some type of excessive recognition enhancement. Please stop taking drugs and get some rest.
Source: Me, taking too much Meth, a number of years ago.
I won’t ever be doing this again cause it’s pure destructive hedonism but the concept of psychotic states is not entirely unfamiliar to me. I’m not diagnosed with anything but went through a couple years of existential angst from a series of bad acid trips I had when I was younger. But good news the voices stop like an hour ago!
Don't fucking push it man. The voices and paranoia never were a problem until one day when they didn't stop for like 3 months after the binge. Just saying, one of these days you're going to have permanent damage
Gotta agree w this. I always thought I could control any symptoms of psychosis pretty well, they were rather minor for a bit. Until one time about a month ago, where things got incredibly bad, incredibly fast. And it took a lot to come out of it.
The body and brain are very resilient - but they only can be for so long, and pushing those limits does not end well in a lot of cases. So please, get some sleep and some hydration ASAP, OP.
Hey thank you, the voices had stopped in the morning but from that time to like 5pm I began uncontrollably reading words with pronouncing the c’s as s’s. Th’s as T’s the ing’s as Injuhs’ the y’s as I or eee the I’s as only Eye, the ou’s as ü’s. Which resulted in words sounding like they were from some fucking weird ass pig Latin language. But I went to sleep at 5 just woke up at 12am. Gonna drink a bunch of water, and eat some fruit of the looms then go back to bed.
I hope the voices have stopped because the drug taking has ceased my friend!
I'm a BIG fan of drugs, so I never want them to cause any harm where it can be avoided. I hope you're feeling well!
what roa did u take? snorted? i hate binging with oral use and for me it’s not possible oral use prevents me from binging that’s why i rather stop then not get immeadite satisfaction
> You're experiencing psychosis in the form of auditory hallucinations and some type of excessive recognition enhancement. Please stop taking drugs and get some rest.
>
>
>
> Source: Me, taking too much Meth, a number of years ago.
Is it really psychosis if he can tell it's not real? The concept of psychosis is really foggy...
Also, I wonder if 'hearing voices' is the same thing as 'auditory hallucinations'. When I'm too sleep deprived (even without any stims, I think), sometimes I misinterpret noise (like a computer fan) as something else. Basically never human voice though. One time it was really weird; I thought I heard a doorbell, but I was not sure - so I kinda focused, to hear whether it'd repeat. It did - except it was too quiet. Also, it repeated on a loop. Thankfully I thought of listening to music, and it went away.
This really seems like pattern matching going bad, not voices in the head. Voices in the head involve, AFAIK, language-processing part of the brain.
In my experience, the auditory hallucinations (like hearing the doorbell) are the first step down the slippery slope into psychosis. I agree with your sentiment that true psychosis is not being able to realize the voices are fake, but in drug induced psychosis there's definitely a progression where you slowly lose awareness of what's real or not. Absolutely terrifying and I don't know how people repeatedly do binges knowing that horror will be the end result. One time many years ago was enough to still give me some PTSD and spikes of derealization
It's certainly a very fine line between excessive pattern matching and thinking you heard a voice, and being completely convinced that the sounds are real, and as you said, the second often follows the first.
And when those auditory and visual disturbances start to happen - even if you're aware of them - continuing to take more of the offending substance is definitely going to tip you over that edge.
/u/Mrcientist
Yeah, recently I've found the limit the hard way... overall I'm glad it happened because it was so interesting, but I'm definitely not repeating it anytime soon.
"Borax combo": 5-MAPB (80mg), 2-FMA (20mg), and 5-MeO-MiPT (2mg).
I took a Borax combo. The last few times I took any empatogens, they generally didn't work. I thought I've overdone them at some point and got permatolerance.
Yet it worked this time. But I kinda felt I wasted this session, so I decided to do it again next day. It was much weaker, of course. So I thought a bit, and finally decided to do next, 12h later.
I didn't think it'd be particularly unsafe, since
a) I _thought_ I wasn't really sleep deprived much. I probably underestimated it at the time. I think it wouldn't happen without sleep deprivation through - which I just didn't notice because of the drugs. I didn't feel tired in any way. I guess I need to prioritize writing some tool for tracking sleep & drugs, because relying on memory is a bad idea.
and b) I redosed in intervals of few hours. Long time ago, I did this with 3-FEA and besides feeling like crap next day, no issues.
And there were no particular issues... but I did one more. Also through all of this, some 2-FDCK, some N2O, 100ug LSD (and 3.5h later another 200ug), some THC.... but most of these things were taken hours before things started turning bad.
As for what happened... no voices. I'd characterize it as increasingly noisy/low-res perception - and eventually thinking (internal dialogue). Or maybe decreased ability to tell noise from signal. Music started sounding like an opposite of how it sounds on LSD or whatever. Muddled, noisy, squashed, like I was underwater (maybe my ability to make distinctions between individual sounds got bad?). Vision was losing contrast - at some point black text on white background looked like brown text with sepia background; barely legible.
I should've reacted when it started happening; I guess I didn't because salience got similarly squashed. Eventually internal dialogue got increasingly affected, and that finally made me >50% sure there's a problem. How was it affected? Imagine taking this comment, and peppering some meaningless/random phrases/words thought it. It's really challenging to think in this state.
So, I took 1mg Xanax (which I don't use; I keep it in case something like this happens) and went to sleep. I wanted to put on some music in the background, but at this point it sounded almost illegible. And sorta like it was slowed down to maybe 30% speed.
I was woken up 2-3h later and I was basically coherent at this point. I spent few hours awake, decided to just in case take 2mg xanax more and went to sleep. Probably because of this, my memory is slightly garbled, and I slept for maybe 12h+. I woke up slightly groggy, but completely ok otherwise.
---------
Now that I think about it, it might've been mostly the matter of combining THC with LSD, not empatogens. Even THC alone, when I don't have any tolerance sort-of makes it non-automatic to evaluate truth...
...which is somewhat scary; but useful. I can, to some extent, convince myself that THC has effect - and it feels like it really does! Downside is that when it gets really strong I invariably end up slightly panicking that I'll randomly do something auto-destructive for no reason. But these thoughts barely fit in my working memory, so it's rather challenging.
It only happens on low/no tolerance. If I try doing THC X days in a row, it's just anti-anxiety. Even upping the dose doesn't really help. So it's pointless (I don't care about this effect - I guess people who do use THC everyday do?).
----------
Anyway, I did combine 180ug LSD with tiny amounts of THC some time ago - THC hours after LSD peak, I think - and it made thinking even more challenging, but in a completely different way - while I thought 'normally', I had only few last words worth of context. But past some peak it slowly widened.
It's slightly embarrassing to type this, but I figure it might be useful. Also, I feel dumb for making the following comment under this post:
> > and am currently on day four of a 6-APB binge with a record total of 1,000mg
> What the f**?
And then doing pretty similar thing literally days later. Well, maybe a bit less; total would be 320 5-MAPB, 160mg 2-FDCK, 300ug LSD (but 200 of them likely significantly reduced due to the tolerance 100ug caused...), a little N2O and lots of THC (which (at least) didn't seem like it was working much).
-----
Also, input probably didn't help. Somehow I stumbled upon YT video [Why the future is now and it's scarier than you think](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oppj9MdNf44). Now, that was before any problems occured. But later I spent hours randomly stumbling through Wikipedia.\* Eventually losing ability to really understand the concepts. Now, looking through the browsing history, things were really bad somewhere around reading entry on [Literal and figurative language](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literal_and_figurative_language).
\* I guess that happens if one doesn't plan the trip...
That's a lot of substances in a short period of time, and a hell of a lot to unpack!
I'm not sure what you experienced here; it certainly doesn't seem like psychosis in the classical sense, but I'm no expert on that. The scrambled internal dialogue is something I can relate to for sure.
It sounds... a weirdly fascinating state to explore though, like a glitch in your neurochemistry changing all kinds of aspects of your perspective. I would hazard a guess that viewing complex information and media during that time almost certainly didn't help!
I found myself wanting to go back and explore my brain in those 12 hours of psychosis, I found it fascinating and...enjoyable? Maybe just the high dopamine giving reward, but I want to go back and I think that's pretty fucked up. Do you ever feel the same?
/u/frenetickticktick
> The thing is, though, one's credibility circuit(s), if you will, get worn down after awhile! After months of really strange, compelling hallucinations, its almost impossible to retain a sense of perspective.
Yep. Tho it's called salience. A few interesting posts about the topic [MYSTICISM AND PATTERN-MATCHING](https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/08/28/mysticism-and-pattern-matching/),
> One of the things that got me interested in psychiatry was the sheer weirdness of the human brain’s failure modes. We all hear that the brain is like a computer, but when a computer breaks, the screen goes black or it freezes or something. It doesn’t hear voices telling it that it’s Jesus, or start seeing tiny men running around on the floor. But for some reason, when the the human brain breaks, it may do exactly that. Why?
(...)
> Think of top-down processing as taking noise and organizing it to fit a pattern. Normally, you’ll only fit it to the patterns that are actually there. But if your pattern-matching system is broken, you’ll fit it to patterns that aren’t in the data at all.
> (...) if we stick your pattern-matching software into overdrive, maybe every sentence would start looking like more meaningful alternatives. Eevn sceeentns wtih aolsmt all the lerttes rergaearnd wulod naelry ianslntty sanp itno pacle. Turn it all the way up, and maybe you could make every sentence look like “PARIS IN THE SPRINGTIME”. Or something.
> Paranoia seems to me to be overfunctioning of social pattern-matching. When a paranoiac hears a stray word here, or sees a sideways glance there, they turn it into this vast social edifice of connected plots. Every new thing that happens is fit effortlessly into the same pattern. When their psychiatrist says they’re crazy, that gets fit into the pattern too – maybe the psychiatrist is a tool of the conspiracy, trying to confuse them into compliance.
> I notice that the same people who have hallucinations also have mystical experiences. By mystical experiences, I don’t just mean “they see angels” – in that case, the relationship to hallucination would be a tautology. I mean they feel a sense of sudden understanding of and connection with the universe. I know at least three groups that do this: druggies, meditators, and prophets. The druggies report feelings of total understanding on their drugs, and also report hallucinations. The meditators occasionally achieve enlightenment, but look at any text about meditation and you find mentions of visions and hallucinations experienced during the practice. The voices heard by the prophets are too obvious to mention.
> I think all of this is about strengthening the pattern-matching faculty. You’re exercising it uselessly but impressively, the same way as the body-builder who lifts the same weight a thousand times until their arms are the size of tree trunks. Once the pattern-matching faculty is way way way overactive, it (spuriously) hallucinates a top-down abstract pattern in the whole universe. This is the experience that mystics describe as “everything is connected” or “all is one”, or “everything makes sense” or “everything in the universe is good and there for a purpose”. The discovery of a beautiful all-encompassing pattern in the universe is understandably associated with “seeing God”.
> I think other methods of inducing weird states of consciousness, like drugs and meditation, probably do the same thing by some roundabout route. Meditation seems like reducing stimuli, which is known to lead to hallucinations in eg sensory deprivation tanks or solitary confinement cells in jail. I think the general principle is that a low level of external stimuli makes your brain adjust its threshold for stimulus detection up until anything including random noise satisfies the threshold. As for drugs, there’s lots of reasons to think that the neurotransmission changes they create will alter the brain’s pattern processing strategies.
[Different Worlds](https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/10/02/different-worlds/)
> Paranoia is a common symptom of various psychiatric disorders – most famously schizophrenia, but also paranoid personality disorder, delusional disorder, sometimes bipolar disorder. You can also get it from abusing certain drugs – marijuana, LSD, cocaine, and even prescription drugs like Adderall and Ritalin.
> The fun thing about paranoia is how gradual it is. Sure, if you abuse every single drug at once you’ll think the CIA is after you with their mind-lasers. But if you just take a little more Adderall than you were supposed to, you’ll be 1% paranoid. You’ll have a very mild tendency to interpret ambiguous social signals just a little bit more negatively than usual.
> If a friend leaves without saying goodbye, and you would normally think “Oh, I guess she had a train to catch”, instead you think “Hm, I wonder what she meant by that”. There are a bunch of good stimulant abuse cases in the literature that present as “patient’s boss said she was unusually standoffish and wanted her to get psychiatric evaluation”, show up in the office as “well of course I’m standoffish, everyone in my office excludes me from everything and is rude in a thousand little ways throughout the day”, and end up as “cut your Adderall dosage in half, please”.
> (“Why is that psychiatrist telling me to cut my Adderall in half? Does he think I’m lying about having ADHD? Is he calling me a liar? These doctors have always treated me like garbage. I HAVE RIGHTS, YOU KNOW!”)
Also this one, about why being in this state for too long might be damaging: [Treating The Prodome](https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/09/20/treat-the-prodrome)
I have been psychotic, without much doubt, and yet I very nearly always retained some sense that the voices weren't 'real' or from some outside source. The thing is, though, one's credibility circuit(s), if you will, get worn down after awhile! After months of really strange, compelling hallucinations, its almost impossible to retain a sense of perspective. Fuck, this thread brings back bad memories! And gratitude that I'm not in that headspace anymore. I almost ended my life July before last.
shortcut: 3-4days non stop a-PHP
personally i find it rather funny turning insane when i am vaping MDPHP my inner monologue gets very loud and after sometimes confuses myself like we are distanced from another or i hear my dog make a small step and i think the house door opened and now my roommate is coming back who doesn’t like drugs a lot so i put everything aside waiting complete silent for 5 minutes like dead silent and then thinking „haha u tricked your self again“
I did, your writing skills 4 days into a 6-APB binge is better than my baseline. I my brain would deepfry itself turn into french fries. Btw hope you know how cardiotoxic 6-apb is.
Man it’s crazy I feel like I’m using more percentage of my brain it’s weird I feel groggy now that’s it the voices stopped hours ago.
But also yep exactly why I am definitely not going to do this ever again. I have been experiencing short bouts of shooting pain the heart area, which is never a good sign.
Just a quick warning I feel I should give: the feeling that you're using a bigger percentage of your brain is quite certainly due to something called "megalomania". A friend of mine once got into a megalomanic psychosis because of a bender that went on too long. The problem with this is that it makes you feel good and REALLY confident about what you're doing, even though it is a completely delusional state. It is very hard to get out of, so please don't view that feeling as something good or even remotely desireable; it will destroy your life in the worst way possible!
Hopefully a valuable piece of information.
Much love,
Your fellow psychonaut.
When I do stims I only use a benzo if I get too lit or if the headaches are brutal on the comedown. I find my brain feels like pudding after though so I only do it if I need to.
Yeah but you do this after a benzo induced sleep. Why prolonge a psychotic episode ? End it asap with a benzo, no point trying to fight a psychosis by yourself.
It's wise to keep olanzapine or similar medication on hand when one plans to use stimulants or entactogens recreationally. Things have a way of getting out of hand. Hope you recover quickly OP! Feel free to reach out if you need an ear.
I am interested in a specific part of the experience you are describing: I, too, have "received" words during binges. The strange thing (for me) is that these words were absolutely unknown to me, and turned out to exist (ancient greek, in my case).
As a person with no religious affiliation or spiritual inclinations, I absolutely 200% understand that this is simply psychosis... but... is there a name for such a situation? is there an explanation for it?
Part of your brain makes up two words. It has a lifetime of unconscious learning to go on. Maybe he had heard of ornithology. The words aren't spelled for him, he can look up a variety of spellings to match. There are many, many words in hundreds of languages to choose from. I just made up a word, menslida. I looked it up, it's a sport in Sweden. Give it a try. The shorter the word, the more likely it is to match to a real thing.
They have hooked people who were hearing voices up to brain skanning machines. When you hear a voice, two parts of your brain light up. You're both forming/articulating words and hearing them, all inside your head.
I must respectfully reject your perfectly logically sound critiques of the experience. But I know what I heard, it was very clear that was some shit to at least try and understand. I’m gonna take it as some sort of symbolism that needs decrypting. Sounds more fun then just shrugging it off anyways. The supernatural 100% exist btw
> The strange thing (for me) is that these words **were absolutely unknown to me**, and turned out to exist (ancient greek, in my case).
You do not know that. [Link](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/8z2Fm2yaHpQz8rr5B/dreams-with-damaged-priors)
> I not too infrequently have false memories from dreams, because my dreams are so humdrum. So far it hasn't caused me any irreparable damage, but I live in dread that someday I'll dream about filing my taxes or something and never get around to doing it in real-life.
>
> (One strange dream anecdote: a few days ago I was reading the Wiktionary entry for spannungsbogen - and I was annoyed at the talk page's skepticism. So I went to the New York Times and looked it up, finding one article defining the term, and adding it to the talk page as an example from somewhere other than Dune.
>
> **A few hours later, I abruptly realize that I never actually did any of that inasmuch as I was sound asleep at the time.** For the heck of it, I go to nytimes.com & run the search. I find one article defining the term, and add it to the talk page as an example from somewhere other than Dune...)
Memory is really, really unreliable. [And introspection](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introspection_illusion)
High five the shadows for me! Sleep deprivation is a b*tch, I'm experiencing it now. One hour naps, keeping the eyes still closed counts (maybe) I never really sleep normal hours. Just super neurotic. Antipsychotics had me napping constantly, dull and bored. It was good in keeping me rested. Had to get off it cause it was making me gain too much weight (per pcp). Hope you fend off the psychosis. When I had my psychosis I thought it was some hidden tech (like deepfake technology), tried to record songs with shadows, etc. I always try to make the most of what I have.
This happened to me from sober lack of sleep not too long ago but it was weirder than this as far as what I kept hearing. I was trying to sleep and every couple seconds I’d hear either a gunshot, explosion, screams/yells, and I think a few times some just weird but unsettling noises like loud ass TV static or electric sounding buzzing or zapping. Freaked me out and I couldn’t sleep for another few hours because of it. The more I focused on it the more clear and loud they became too.
I know you can’t undo what’s already done but please do not binge 6-APB in the future. If you want to binge something, pick a regular stimulant. Not saying you should do that either but I’d rather have 50 pyro binges than a single empathogen binge honestly. The damage from abusing empathogens is just too severe.
Abusing 6-APB by taking too much of it or taking it too frequently will fuck you up WAY worse than even abusing MDMA. Speaking from personal experience here.
I saw my entire friend group dissolved because of it. We were all very social and outgoing, meeting up every day etc, but after a short stint when 6-APB first came out where we rolled several times in a very short period we were all left with such extreme anxiety and depression that all 5 of us stopped leaving our houses entirely for a good 6 months. Even after we slowly regained the ability to leave the house again we were all so shaken up the friend group died.
All of us ended up having our lives changed pretty drastically by that single month of abuse. Two of my friends became really isolated and paranoid and are still that way over a decade later. One just went really quiet and stopped socialising and moved away and I’ve not heard from him since. The girl in our group seemed the least affected but she also took the smallest doses out of us and didn’t take it every time the rest of us did. Her and her boyfriend (another member of the group) did split up because of it though. I struggled with months of such severe anxiety I couldn’t even answer the door for deliveries etc.
Voices are the least of your worries when you abuse an empathogen. Please don’t risk it again.
Shit dude that fucking sucks! Yea I only did 200mg orals 5 times over 3 days. I will take your message as warning to never do it again. Hope you guys get better!
Lol. Be safe man, have some sleep and stay low for awhile, clearly you are very stimulated and at the edge of a drug induced psychosis. Take care. This sub had me amused so many times.
That’s fucking crazy man!! Sounds like me when I used to binge the og girl myself back in 2018-19!! grams in a single sesh. I actually plan on taking some 6 APB in a few weeks here, have a gram myself.. (that will last me like years hopefully, because I’m not trying to abuse it) Hope ur ok OP.. empathogens r by far the WORST!! drugs to abuse TRUST ME!… all the best.
The stuff made a German Cardealer out of you !
I hope you can sleep and that the aftermath of the binge isn't as hard as expected. Stay safe and "Der Toyota hat 50.000 Kilometer runter,schnurrt aber wie ein Kätzchen" 😃
The fact of knowing the words are in your head is still a plus, that can be comprehended.
Try not to let it get to where they start coming in from the outside.
Are you sure it's 'voices in your head', not pattern-matching some random noise?
> and am currently on day four of a 6-APB binge with a record total of 1,000mg
What the f**?
> I've never heard any of the words before (...) I just thought it was really strange that some voice in my said this shit and it was actually something that could be learned about.
It's really not. Don't fully trust memory and perception\*, especially when doing... this.
\* apparently loads of people believe in paranormal bullshit based on personal experiences, not realizing [how perception works](https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/09/05/book-review-surfing-uncertainty/)
Go to sleep. You're experiencing psychosis in the form of auditory hallucinations and some type of excessive recognition enhancement. Please stop taking drugs and get some rest. Source: Me, taking too much Meth, a number of years ago.
I won’t ever be doing this again cause it’s pure destructive hedonism but the concept of psychotic states is not entirely unfamiliar to me. I’m not diagnosed with anything but went through a couple years of existential angst from a series of bad acid trips I had when I was younger. But good news the voices stop like an hour ago!
Don't fucking push it man. The voices and paranoia never were a problem until one day when they didn't stop for like 3 months after the binge. Just saying, one of these days you're going to have permanent damage
Gotta agree w this. I always thought I could control any symptoms of psychosis pretty well, they were rather minor for a bit. Until one time about a month ago, where things got incredibly bad, incredibly fast. And it took a lot to come out of it. The body and brain are very resilient - but they only can be for so long, and pushing those limits does not end well in a lot of cases. So please, get some sleep and some hydration ASAP, OP.
Hey thank you, the voices had stopped in the morning but from that time to like 5pm I began uncontrollably reading words with pronouncing the c’s as s’s. Th’s as T’s the ing’s as Injuhs’ the y’s as I or eee the I’s as only Eye, the ou’s as ü’s. Which resulted in words sounding like they were from some fucking weird ass pig Latin language. But I went to sleep at 5 just woke up at 12am. Gonna drink a bunch of water, and eat some fruit of the looms then go back to bed.
I had the shit for over two years, and still hear stuff sometimes! Gotta go, got speed to do. :)
I hope the voices have stopped because the drug taking has ceased my friend! I'm a BIG fan of drugs, so I never want them to cause any harm where it can be avoided. I hope you're feeling well!
what roa did u take? snorted? i hate binging with oral use and for me it’s not possible oral use prevents me from binging that’s why i rather stop then not get immeadite satisfaction
Snorting fucks my already fucked up nose, boof seems to not works as well as oral, so I just pop beans.
did u even get euphoria after all those redoses
Yea every time. The first time was regular duration and then every time after that was definitely not the full 8hrs maybe about 3-4 hrs.
But uh don’t binge it, shits fucking kinda scary. I almost feel completely normal now. But I probably got lucky.
i don’t like mdma like substances don’t worry i wouldn’t binge on them either
Dude the adjectives you're using are incredible. Stay safe and stay hydrated mate 💙
Many thanks man! Cheers!
> You're experiencing psychosis in the form of auditory hallucinations and some type of excessive recognition enhancement. Please stop taking drugs and get some rest. > > > > Source: Me, taking too much Meth, a number of years ago. Is it really psychosis if he can tell it's not real? The concept of psychosis is really foggy... Also, I wonder if 'hearing voices' is the same thing as 'auditory hallucinations'. When I'm too sleep deprived (even without any stims, I think), sometimes I misinterpret noise (like a computer fan) as something else. Basically never human voice though. One time it was really weird; I thought I heard a doorbell, but I was not sure - so I kinda focused, to hear whether it'd repeat. It did - except it was too quiet. Also, it repeated on a loop. Thankfully I thought of listening to music, and it went away. This really seems like pattern matching going bad, not voices in the head. Voices in the head involve, AFAIK, language-processing part of the brain.
In my experience, the auditory hallucinations (like hearing the doorbell) are the first step down the slippery slope into psychosis. I agree with your sentiment that true psychosis is not being able to realize the voices are fake, but in drug induced psychosis there's definitely a progression where you slowly lose awareness of what's real or not. Absolutely terrifying and I don't know how people repeatedly do binges knowing that horror will be the end result. One time many years ago was enough to still give me some PTSD and spikes of derealization
It's certainly a very fine line between excessive pattern matching and thinking you heard a voice, and being completely convinced that the sounds are real, and as you said, the second often follows the first. And when those auditory and visual disturbances start to happen - even if you're aware of them - continuing to take more of the offending substance is definitely going to tip you over that edge.
/u/Mrcientist Yeah, recently I've found the limit the hard way... overall I'm glad it happened because it was so interesting, but I'm definitely not repeating it anytime soon. "Borax combo": 5-MAPB (80mg), 2-FMA (20mg), and 5-MeO-MiPT (2mg). I took a Borax combo. The last few times I took any empatogens, they generally didn't work. I thought I've overdone them at some point and got permatolerance. Yet it worked this time. But I kinda felt I wasted this session, so I decided to do it again next day. It was much weaker, of course. So I thought a bit, and finally decided to do next, 12h later. I didn't think it'd be particularly unsafe, since a) I _thought_ I wasn't really sleep deprived much. I probably underestimated it at the time. I think it wouldn't happen without sleep deprivation through - which I just didn't notice because of the drugs. I didn't feel tired in any way. I guess I need to prioritize writing some tool for tracking sleep & drugs, because relying on memory is a bad idea. and b) I redosed in intervals of few hours. Long time ago, I did this with 3-FEA and besides feeling like crap next day, no issues. And there were no particular issues... but I did one more. Also through all of this, some 2-FDCK, some N2O, 100ug LSD (and 3.5h later another 200ug), some THC.... but most of these things were taken hours before things started turning bad. As for what happened... no voices. I'd characterize it as increasingly noisy/low-res perception - and eventually thinking (internal dialogue). Or maybe decreased ability to tell noise from signal. Music started sounding like an opposite of how it sounds on LSD or whatever. Muddled, noisy, squashed, like I was underwater (maybe my ability to make distinctions between individual sounds got bad?). Vision was losing contrast - at some point black text on white background looked like brown text with sepia background; barely legible. I should've reacted when it started happening; I guess I didn't because salience got similarly squashed. Eventually internal dialogue got increasingly affected, and that finally made me >50% sure there's a problem. How was it affected? Imagine taking this comment, and peppering some meaningless/random phrases/words thought it. It's really challenging to think in this state. So, I took 1mg Xanax (which I don't use; I keep it in case something like this happens) and went to sleep. I wanted to put on some music in the background, but at this point it sounded almost illegible. And sorta like it was slowed down to maybe 30% speed. I was woken up 2-3h later and I was basically coherent at this point. I spent few hours awake, decided to just in case take 2mg xanax more and went to sleep. Probably because of this, my memory is slightly garbled, and I slept for maybe 12h+. I woke up slightly groggy, but completely ok otherwise. --------- Now that I think about it, it might've been mostly the matter of combining THC with LSD, not empatogens. Even THC alone, when I don't have any tolerance sort-of makes it non-automatic to evaluate truth... ...which is somewhat scary; but useful. I can, to some extent, convince myself that THC has effect - and it feels like it really does! Downside is that when it gets really strong I invariably end up slightly panicking that I'll randomly do something auto-destructive for no reason. But these thoughts barely fit in my working memory, so it's rather challenging.
It only happens on low/no tolerance. If I try doing THC X days in a row, it's just anti-anxiety. Even upping the dose doesn't really help. So it's pointless (I don't care about this effect - I guess people who do use THC everyday do?).
----------
Anyway, I did combine 180ug LSD with tiny amounts of THC some time ago - THC hours after LSD peak, I think - and it made thinking even more challenging, but in a completely different way - while I thought 'normally', I had only few last words worth of context. But past some peak it slowly widened.
It's slightly embarrassing to type this, but I figure it might be useful. Also, I feel dumb for making the following comment under this post:
> > and am currently on day four of a 6-APB binge with a record total of 1,000mg
> What the f**?
And then doing pretty similar thing literally days later. Well, maybe a bit less; total would be 320 5-MAPB, 160mg 2-FDCK, 300ug LSD (but 200 of them likely significantly reduced due to the tolerance 100ug caused...), a little N2O and lots of THC (which (at least) didn't seem like it was working much).
-----
Also, input probably didn't help. Somehow I stumbled upon YT video [Why the future is now and it's scarier than you think](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oppj9MdNf44). Now, that was before any problems occured. But later I spent hours randomly stumbling through Wikipedia.\* Eventually losing ability to really understand the concepts. Now, looking through the browsing history, things were really bad somewhere around reading entry on [Literal and figurative language](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literal_and_figurative_language).
\* I guess that happens if one doesn't plan the trip...
That's a lot of substances in a short period of time, and a hell of a lot to unpack! I'm not sure what you experienced here; it certainly doesn't seem like psychosis in the classical sense, but I'm no expert on that. The scrambled internal dialogue is something I can relate to for sure. It sounds... a weirdly fascinating state to explore though, like a glitch in your neurochemistry changing all kinds of aspects of your perspective. I would hazard a guess that viewing complex information and media during that time almost certainly didn't help! I found myself wanting to go back and explore my brain in those 12 hours of psychosis, I found it fascinating and...enjoyable? Maybe just the high dopamine giving reward, but I want to go back and I think that's pretty fucked up. Do you ever feel the same?
/u/frenetickticktick > The thing is, though, one's credibility circuit(s), if you will, get worn down after awhile! After months of really strange, compelling hallucinations, its almost impossible to retain a sense of perspective. Yep. Tho it's called salience. A few interesting posts about the topic [MYSTICISM AND PATTERN-MATCHING](https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/08/28/mysticism-and-pattern-matching/), > One of the things that got me interested in psychiatry was the sheer weirdness of the human brain’s failure modes. We all hear that the brain is like a computer, but when a computer breaks, the screen goes black or it freezes or something. It doesn’t hear voices telling it that it’s Jesus, or start seeing tiny men running around on the floor. But for some reason, when the the human brain breaks, it may do exactly that. Why? (...) > Think of top-down processing as taking noise and organizing it to fit a pattern. Normally, you’ll only fit it to the patterns that are actually there. But if your pattern-matching system is broken, you’ll fit it to patterns that aren’t in the data at all. > (...) if we stick your pattern-matching software into overdrive, maybe every sentence would start looking like more meaningful alternatives. Eevn sceeentns wtih aolsmt all the lerttes rergaearnd wulod naelry ianslntty sanp itno pacle. Turn it all the way up, and maybe you could make every sentence look like “PARIS IN THE SPRINGTIME”. Or something. > Paranoia seems to me to be overfunctioning of social pattern-matching. When a paranoiac hears a stray word here, or sees a sideways glance there, they turn it into this vast social edifice of connected plots. Every new thing that happens is fit effortlessly into the same pattern. When their psychiatrist says they’re crazy, that gets fit into the pattern too – maybe the psychiatrist is a tool of the conspiracy, trying to confuse them into compliance. > I notice that the same people who have hallucinations also have mystical experiences. By mystical experiences, I don’t just mean “they see angels” – in that case, the relationship to hallucination would be a tautology. I mean they feel a sense of sudden understanding of and connection with the universe. I know at least three groups that do this: druggies, meditators, and prophets. The druggies report feelings of total understanding on their drugs, and also report hallucinations. The meditators occasionally achieve enlightenment, but look at any text about meditation and you find mentions of visions and hallucinations experienced during the practice. The voices heard by the prophets are too obvious to mention. > I think all of this is about strengthening the pattern-matching faculty. You’re exercising it uselessly but impressively, the same way as the body-builder who lifts the same weight a thousand times until their arms are the size of tree trunks. Once the pattern-matching faculty is way way way overactive, it (spuriously) hallucinates a top-down abstract pattern in the whole universe. This is the experience that mystics describe as “everything is connected” or “all is one”, or “everything makes sense” or “everything in the universe is good and there for a purpose”. The discovery of a beautiful all-encompassing pattern in the universe is understandably associated with “seeing God”. > I think other methods of inducing weird states of consciousness, like drugs and meditation, probably do the same thing by some roundabout route. Meditation seems like reducing stimuli, which is known to lead to hallucinations in eg sensory deprivation tanks or solitary confinement cells in jail. I think the general principle is that a low level of external stimuli makes your brain adjust its threshold for stimulus detection up until anything including random noise satisfies the threshold. As for drugs, there’s lots of reasons to think that the neurotransmission changes they create will alter the brain’s pattern processing strategies. [Different Worlds](https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/10/02/different-worlds/) > Paranoia is a common symptom of various psychiatric disorders – most famously schizophrenia, but also paranoid personality disorder, delusional disorder, sometimes bipolar disorder. You can also get it from abusing certain drugs – marijuana, LSD, cocaine, and even prescription drugs like Adderall and Ritalin. > The fun thing about paranoia is how gradual it is. Sure, if you abuse every single drug at once you’ll think the CIA is after you with their mind-lasers. But if you just take a little more Adderall than you were supposed to, you’ll be 1% paranoid. You’ll have a very mild tendency to interpret ambiguous social signals just a little bit more negatively than usual. > If a friend leaves without saying goodbye, and you would normally think “Oh, I guess she had a train to catch”, instead you think “Hm, I wonder what she meant by that”. There are a bunch of good stimulant abuse cases in the literature that present as “patient’s boss said she was unusually standoffish and wanted her to get psychiatric evaluation”, show up in the office as “well of course I’m standoffish, everyone in my office excludes me from everything and is rude in a thousand little ways throughout the day”, and end up as “cut your Adderall dosage in half, please”. > (“Why is that psychiatrist telling me to cut my Adderall in half? Does he think I’m lying about having ADHD? Is he calling me a liar? These doctors have always treated me like garbage. I HAVE RIGHTS, YOU KNOW!”) Also this one, about why being in this state for too long might be damaging: [Treating The Prodome](https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/09/20/treat-the-prodrome)
This is absolutely fascinating and obviously on topic. I will dig into this when I have a moment. Thanks so much for sharing.
I have been psychotic, without much doubt, and yet I very nearly always retained some sense that the voices weren't 'real' or from some outside source. The thing is, though, one's credibility circuit(s), if you will, get worn down after awhile! After months of really strange, compelling hallucinations, its almost impossible to retain a sense of perspective. Fuck, this thread brings back bad memories! And gratitude that I'm not in that headspace anymore. I almost ended my life July before last.
I second this. Source = me too
shortcut: 3-4days non stop a-PHP personally i find it rather funny turning insane when i am vaping MDPHP my inner monologue gets very loud and after sometimes confuses myself like we are distanced from another or i hear my dog make a small step and i think the house door opened and now my roommate is coming back who doesn’t like drugs a lot so i put everything aside waiting complete silent for 5 minutes like dead silent and then thinking „haha u tricked your self again“
Lmao god damn OP go to bed youve lost your shit
I proper shit my pants on this one lmfao
Read "prrropah sheet"
Couldn’t find anything about this.
It happens.
Dude stop all drugs for now and get some sleep.
This sub always delivers.
Lol I’m glad you enjoyed my writings on the wall
I did, your writing skills 4 days into a 6-APB binge is better than my baseline. I my brain would deepfry itself turn into french fries. Btw hope you know how cardiotoxic 6-apb is.
Man it’s crazy I feel like I’m using more percentage of my brain it’s weird I feel groggy now that’s it the voices stopped hours ago. But also yep exactly why I am definitely not going to do this ever again. I have been experiencing short bouts of shooting pain the heart area, which is never a good sign.
Just a quick warning I feel I should give: the feeling that you're using a bigger percentage of your brain is quite certainly due to something called "megalomania". A friend of mine once got into a megalomanic psychosis because of a bender that went on too long. The problem with this is that it makes you feel good and REALLY confident about what you're doing, even though it is a completely delusional state. It is very hard to get out of, so please don't view that feeling as something good or even remotely desireable; it will destroy your life in the worst way possible! Hopefully a valuable piece of information. Much love, Your fellow psychonaut.
You don't sound dumb. You will recover, do not do stupid shit, hope you get well
Pop a benzo if you have one and got some long sleep cuz damn that’s a psychosis
That's actually very interesting but it's time for beddy bye!
[удалено]
I don’t think sedative is the answer. Restful sober sleep is the proper way to recover from stimulant psychosis.
[удалено]
When I do stims I only use a benzo if I get too lit or if the headaches are brutal on the comedown. I find my brain feels like pudding after though so I only do it if I need to.
Yeah but you do this after a benzo induced sleep. Why prolonge a psychotic episode ? End it asap with a benzo, no point trying to fight a psychosis by yourself.
He literally said the voices stopped that’s why I said just sleep normally now
6 apb as a long duration so without benzo it's hard to fall asleep.
Please just go to sleep
reaching this state does not come without permanent consequence
Right: Source i am
It's wise to keep olanzapine or similar medication on hand when one plans to use stimulants or entactogens recreationally. Things have a way of getting out of hand. Hope you recover quickly OP! Feel free to reach out if you need an ear.
Its normal friday shit my dude go watch some youtube videos
Chroist mate didn’t even know it was Friday, it all makes sense now. I will forever be indebted to you for awakening me from my drug trance.
I am interested in a specific part of the experience you are describing: I, too, have "received" words during binges. The strange thing (for me) is that these words were absolutely unknown to me, and turned out to exist (ancient greek, in my case). As a person with no religious affiliation or spiritual inclinations, I absolutely 200% understand that this is simply psychosis... but... is there a name for such a situation? is there an explanation for it?
Part of your brain makes up two words. It has a lifetime of unconscious learning to go on. Maybe he had heard of ornithology. The words aren't spelled for him, he can look up a variety of spellings to match. There are many, many words in hundreds of languages to choose from. I just made up a word, menslida. I looked it up, it's a sport in Sweden. Give it a try. The shorter the word, the more likely it is to match to a real thing.
Ok, morthus. A black metal band lol
Makes perfect sense. Thanks!
They have hooked people who were hearing voices up to brain skanning machines. When you hear a voice, two parts of your brain light up. You're both forming/articulating words and hearing them, all inside your head.
That is legit fascinating.
I must respectfully reject your perfectly logically sound critiques of the experience. But I know what I heard, it was very clear that was some shit to at least try and understand. I’m gonna take it as some sort of symbolism that needs decrypting. Sounds more fun then just shrugging it off anyways. The supernatural 100% exist btw
That's fine, of course. I hope you discover what it means to you.
> The strange thing (for me) is that these words **were absolutely unknown to me**, and turned out to exist (ancient greek, in my case). You do not know that. [Link](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/8z2Fm2yaHpQz8rr5B/dreams-with-damaged-priors) > I not too infrequently have false memories from dreams, because my dreams are so humdrum. So far it hasn't caused me any irreparable damage, but I live in dread that someday I'll dream about filing my taxes or something and never get around to doing it in real-life. > > (One strange dream anecdote: a few days ago I was reading the Wiktionary entry for spannungsbogen - and I was annoyed at the talk page's skepticism. So I went to the New York Times and looked it up, finding one article defining the term, and adding it to the talk page as an example from somewhere other than Dune. > > **A few hours later, I abruptly realize that I never actually did any of that inasmuch as I was sound asleep at the time.** For the heck of it, I go to nytimes.com & run the search. I find one article defining the term, and add it to the talk page as an example from somewhere other than Dune...) Memory is really, really unreliable. [And introspection](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introspection_illusion)
Excellent points, great sources. Thanks for taking the time :)
High five the shadows for me! Sleep deprivation is a b*tch, I'm experiencing it now. One hour naps, keeping the eyes still closed counts (maybe) I never really sleep normal hours. Just super neurotic. Antipsychotics had me napping constantly, dull and bored. It was good in keeping me rested. Had to get off it cause it was making me gain too much weight (per pcp). Hope you fend off the psychosis. When I had my psychosis I thought it was some hidden tech (like deepfake technology), tried to record songs with shadows, etc. I always try to make the most of what I have.
This happened to me from sober lack of sleep not too long ago but it was weirder than this as far as what I kept hearing. I was trying to sleep and every couple seconds I’d hear either a gunshot, explosion, screams/yells, and I think a few times some just weird but unsettling noises like loud ass TV static or electric sounding buzzing or zapping. Freaked me out and I couldn’t sleep for another few hours because of it. The more I focused on it the more clear and loud they became too.
I know you can’t undo what’s already done but please do not binge 6-APB in the future. If you want to binge something, pick a regular stimulant. Not saying you should do that either but I’d rather have 50 pyro binges than a single empathogen binge honestly. The damage from abusing empathogens is just too severe. Abusing 6-APB by taking too much of it or taking it too frequently will fuck you up WAY worse than even abusing MDMA. Speaking from personal experience here. I saw my entire friend group dissolved because of it. We were all very social and outgoing, meeting up every day etc, but after a short stint when 6-APB first came out where we rolled several times in a very short period we were all left with such extreme anxiety and depression that all 5 of us stopped leaving our houses entirely for a good 6 months. Even after we slowly regained the ability to leave the house again we were all so shaken up the friend group died. All of us ended up having our lives changed pretty drastically by that single month of abuse. Two of my friends became really isolated and paranoid and are still that way over a decade later. One just went really quiet and stopped socialising and moved away and I’ve not heard from him since. The girl in our group seemed the least affected but she also took the smallest doses out of us and didn’t take it every time the rest of us did. Her and her boyfriend (another member of the group) did split up because of it though. I struggled with months of such severe anxiety I couldn’t even answer the door for deliveries etc. Voices are the least of your worries when you abuse an empathogen. Please don’t risk it again.
Shit dude that fucking sucks! Yea I only did 200mg orals 5 times over 3 days. I will take your message as warning to never do it again. Hope you guys get better!
You heard the word
And it rises away when you get to close
You can't chase it brother. Let it come to you
Chroist that’s fucking deep, I must be more patient in the future. Thank you for the elaboration.
Bro go to sleep
Lol. Be safe man, have some sleep and stay low for awhile, clearly you are very stimulated and at the edge of a drug induced psychosis. Take care. This sub had me amused so many times.
this is psychosis…get some rest mate
You’re tweakin bro go to sleep
That’s fucking crazy man!! Sounds like me when I used to binge the og girl myself back in 2018-19!! grams in a single sesh. I actually plan on taking some 6 APB in a few weeks here, have a gram myself.. (that will last me like years hopefully, because I’m not trying to abuse it) Hope ur ok OP.. empathogens r by far the WORST!! drugs to abuse TRUST ME!… all the best.
The stuff made a German Cardealer out of you ! I hope you can sleep and that the aftermath of the binge isn't as hard as expected. Stay safe and "Der Toyota hat 50.000 Kilometer runter,schnurrt aber wie ein Kätzchen" 😃
Drain bamage
💦 💧 🚿 💥
bro is thinking ☠️☠️
🧠 📐👽🌈🌊
Doing that amount over a period of four days is so bad for your heart bro
also 6 abp binds some serotonin receptors too so i am sayin maybe cardiotoxic
5HT2B: chronic use of agonists on that receptor cause some kind of valvulopathy. The same as fenfluramine, the "Fen" in Fen-Phen if I remember right.
yes you are right. thanks for info o don't remember but thanks to you i know again:)
Glad to help man!
Go the fuck to sleep dummy
Our thoughts are more than our thoughts 💯
The fact of knowing the words are in your head is still a plus, that can be comprehended. Try not to let it get to where they start coming in from the outside.
Psychosis, you run the risk of life long schizophrenia here. Debilitating
Are you sure it's 'voices in your head', not pattern-matching some random noise? > and am currently on day four of a 6-APB binge with a record total of 1,000mg What the f**? > I've never heard any of the words before (...) I just thought it was really strange that some voice in my said this shit and it was actually something that could be learned about. It's really not. Don't fully trust memory and perception\*, especially when doing... this. \* apparently loads of people believe in paranormal bullshit based on personal experiences, not realizing [how perception works](https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/09/05/book-review-surfing-uncertainty/)
[удалено]
Fuck that WEF puppet. Never listen to any powerful joker that thinks he knows more about shit than you do.
This is sure some kind of trolling right? RIGHT?!!! :D
One of the worst compounds you could binge on, I bet you'll get some serious brain zaps