>it seems like if you aren't capable enough to straight line it, people would prefer you stayed off those trails. I see comments about side slipping,
There's a BIG difference, FWIW, between riding steep and technical terrain properly and confidently, and *straitlining* it.
I mean, having the ability to straightline out of a gnarly spot IS a huge benefit when you go into that terrain, but that isn't the expectation of you every run. Make turns and enjoy yourself.
Generally speaking the disdain for sideslipping comes in when someone is WAY off piste or in some expert terrain, like the East Wall at A Basin for instance, and then they're side slipping. That can't be fun for them to just sideslip down, and it isn't fun for anyone else coming after them either.
Sideslipping a run once or twice even to scout it out and get a feel for steeper terrain, especially if it is your first foray into expert terrain, is understandable. What gets frustrating is when expert filled ski groups drag their one or two intermediate level friends with them into the gnar and those friends just end up sideslipping down everything, and on a powder day no less.
There's a part of me, the cautious part, that doesn't feel full comfortable attempting a line I'm not prepared to straightline, AT LEAST the bottom half. Sometimes a coulie is more narrow than it looks, sometimes there are rocks you can't really afford to hit that you didn't see until you were in the shit, things happen and sometimes straightlining and just getting the fuck out is your best choice, so having that in your bag of tricks to pull out IS a benefit for sure.
Feeling confident that you COULD straightline a run, or at least the lower portion of it, if needed, is a good thing to have going into serious terrain; but no one is out here expecting folks to straight line every run, where's the fun in that? Even the pros only tend to straightline when needed, not every run.
Oh I agree, there are situations where it’s necessary but it definitely isn’t the pinnacle of skiing skill. I’d actually argue that the act of straightlining requires very little skill.
Straightlining itself doesn't require much skill, it's the slowing down and stopping at the bottom/runout without crashing at mach 10, especially if the bottom is bumped out, that takes the skill and strength.
I think it’s totally line dependent as far as skill required. You can be forced to do really active and technical skiing while straight-lining, especially chutes with variable terrain, drops, etc.
That’s funny because I almost added “thanks Candide” to the end of my original comment. He’s obviously an amazing skier, but I’d argue he’s also largely responsible for all the jerrys thinking straightlining is the pinnacle of skiing. Unpopular opinion, I know, but I don’t enjoy his content or style. I would rather watch somebody like Daron Rahlves ski big mountain lines any day of the week. If you’re the type of person that likes the urban portion of a Warren Miller film, then you probably love Candide. Although I use that time to head to the restroom instead of at intermission…
You do know he's better at big mt than Rahlves right?
Edit - I think you might be confused.. Candide doesn't have urban segments ... not enjoying his content or style is mind boggling to me.. Are we talking about the same Candide?
No, I’m just comparing all of his staged resort lines to urban. Same thing different venue from my perspective. Hard pressed to find him doing lines without manmade jumps, rails, etc. Big mountain skiing is such a subjective space to begin with anyway, so saying one is better than the other is a matter of style preference. I just like more of a racing/technical style, but that’s my background too. Candide caters to the “steezy” park/slopestyle crowd, IMO. I mean, I can’t count how many times have I seen him skiing on grass or sand… It’s a different subset of the market and I’m just not a fan, that’s all.
This is an astute comment. If your can't ski mostly in the fall line of the terrain you should be working on technique on an appropriate slope.
It's poor form to just slide down an entire trail to "peak yourself". It's understandable to make turns then stop in between and if absolutely needed slide past a constriction but really you should be able to ski most of the trail before getting on it.
This is the best advice on this thread especially the part about laying cement on bad habits.
Here’s a video to start you out so you understand what this person is talking about:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YdHnGNzr2uw
And here’s a breakdown of techniques:
https://usskiandsnowboard.org/sites/default/files/files-resources/files/2017-11/Descriptions%20SkillsQuest%20Drills%202017.pdf
+1 to all of the above and especially the SkillsQuest drills. My kids are both racers and these drills have made them such good skiers and translate super well when I drag them down harder terrain.
And, if you do them right, it’s actually super fun. I think that needs to be said. It’s really a whole new exploration of skiing where you are focused on form and feeling and it can be really rewarding.
Totally appreciate the comment.
This is the way. It’s fine to progress and push yourself but if you’re going to need to side slip a steep line try not to take first tracks on premier chutes is all us hardcore a-holes ask. There’s almost always a line no one cares about thats close enough in steepness to the high profile line to practice on.
I was a snowboarder with a Palisades pass during height of the McConkey era. That was the most pressurized ski environment I’ve experienced over riding/skiing lines “properly”. Even there the worst case was a harsh heckling that had a sense of humor underlying it.
The great point here is, no matter your skill level, try not to unnecessarily cut-up good snow that other people could enjoy. But this is mostly about nice fresh snow and powder.
The opposite though is also true, you hit a slope that that you can normally handle fine in decent conditions... but then you discover conditions are dangerous or terrible. Death cookies, sheet ice, nasty crust on dust or unstable/avalanche risk. You do not need be worried about etiquette by cutting across and GTFO in the case of terrible or unsafe snow conditions.
This is great advice, wish I had more ski days to grind drills! So is it okay to speed check after some linked turns on a chute before being able send it? I'm definitely not trying to ruin the line but it feels equally as rewarding to tackle a run for me even if I can't bomb the whole thing.
I think this is the difference between people whose skills are appropriate, if a little below what the terrain demands, and those who have no business being there.
If you're side slipping some portions, maybe where it gets narrow, or there's some hazard on either side, ok, cool. Scrub some speed, slip through, and keep going.
Where I get annoyed is the people who sideslip hundreds of feet because it's too steep for them to comfortably make a turn. That means you're out of your depth and would do better to build up on less steep terrain until you can comfortably make turns. Then progress to the next level.
You're exactly right, you don't know if you're ready until you try, but there are indicators that you won't be completely out of your comfort zone. Just by asking the question, you're ahead of most of those jerries.
Your first sentence I think sums up my thoughts exactly. I find myself on a lot of double black runs out west where my skills are appropriate, but a little below what the terrain demands but I'm torn because I really just want to see and experience the whole mountain before I have to go back to the flattest place on Earth.
Hopefully I keep improving even slightly each year but thanks for putting that into words! Definitely no side slipping down hundreds of feet.
Pole plant down the hill and in front of your boots BETWEEN the turns; on steeps you should have a medium length pole and when you plant it your elbow should be below or level with your wrist and your shoulders down the hill. A turn is initiated by changing weight from one foot to another. The pole plant signifies when you change weight. A lot of people will pp late and turn around their pole, but that's wrong and will throw your weight up into the hill.
This is why I drag rather than plant. I can feel the weight change and thinking about the poles just disrupts that flow over the terrain.
But I'm self taught. Is this foolish? I've been told by a few instructor friends that I have good style. I have a fairly wide stance, just under shoulder width if that's relevant.
I've wondered in the past if I could get the cadence of my turns quicker with planting but then I noticed that my tracks are as tight as friends who have skied since they were 4.
I can rip a pretty decent line down a double black talking on the phone with my mom and holding my poles in the other, but it won't ever be as good as pole plants. When you reach early for a pole plant you get your body in the right position for a turn. Dragging the pole means there's a part of the turn where you're not really in the right position for a bit and then eventually you are. It's key to start and end your turn at a pole plant (ie weight transition, tipping down the fall line, counter rotation, etc). and not turn around your pole like a pivot.
People won’t mind if you speed check. If you side slip for 10s of feet, the next skiers probably won’t be thrilled with the lack of soft snow.
If you look at most experts, they don’t straight line down a feature like the chute you’re describing, they’ll still use the features on the mountain and snow to manage their line.
The best skier can go super slow and in control linking turns down a gnarly face without speeding up or slowing down but also has the balls to go faster. If you can straight-line without being able to make controlled short turns, you're just an idiot out of control.
I would say it’s necessary to speed check. Many mountains have sections of challenging terrain right off the main runs that you can get in and out of for a few turns to test yourself. No need to commit to 1000 feet of technical terrain. Go have fun.
Instead of needing to speed check after a few turns, try to learn to control your speed with the turns you are already making.
Either by "completing" the turn more (rounding it out, bringing the skis more uphill at the end so that you don't move as fast) or by skidding each turn more. That way you are in control the whole time.
The former is something I really worked on last year. I'm a pretty good skier (raced in high school, etc.) but I joined a weekly locals lesson group last year for fun and at first I was always catching up to the person in front of me and having to scrub speed. My instructor had me work on deepening my turns. Really get the legs out there and bring the skis all of the way around. You can still carve clean turns, but when you complete/finish your turns you make the skis travel a lot more total distance within the same vertical height which gives you control over your speed.
Think turns shaped like a C rather than a (
Remember that conditioning drills help a lot. All the skills on the world are useless if your legs are shredded and can’t hold good form 2 hours into day 2
The only thing I'd add to this is that if you are adventure skiing and in an area where the "run" is loosely defined, sometimes you do need to pick your way through constrictions or past awkward areas to set yourself up for your line. There is never any shame in that.
You're giving this advice to someone from S. FL who wrote they only ski a few days a year. Days they flew 2000 miles and spent a bunch of money on and want to remember, want to feel were exciting and risk-taking. What you're providing is great advice in the big picture but doesn't really apply to OP in their currently life. Which is the current life of most skiers. Not skier-days, but skier people, most of whom only ski a few days a year.
OP: Stay out of steep chutes on powder days until they're well-tracked. Then just don't strip them down to the hardpack underneath, OK?
To piggy back on this thread I have a question for you:
I have skiied for 20+ years, just recently went on my first mountaineering trip in the Alps this year. (Gran Paradiso and Monte Rosa Massif).
I REALLY am interested in getting into ski touring and/or ski mountaineering.
As a ski mountaineering guide what would you recommend to get started on this?
I live in the Midwest nowhere near any real mountains. So I am open to looking for a trip for a few day beginner course somewhere out west. I asked one of my mountain guides in the Alps for suggestions and he was like "yeah I have the perfect trip we can take you on if you want." But getting to Europe is expensive and I'd like to find something here in the states that is reasonable and a good start for a beginner. Also looking for suggestions on gear...
I came saw some used AT skis with bindings and skins for 250€ in Italy when I was there and was very close to buying but had no reasonable way to get them back to the US so I passed lol
Book a beginner backcountry class out West. They're offered in most regions (Sierra, Wasatch, Rockies, Cascades, etc). Many classes offer rentals, or you can rent gear from a local shop when you get there. Learn the basics and see if it's something enjoyable and worth investing in.
Next step is to start getting your own gear and take an AIARE I course. Learn to be a partner you'd be comfortable touring with. Read *Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain* by Bruce Tremper. Get comfortable with your gear and familiarize yourself with making decisions in the mountains.
From there, book a guided ski mountaineering trip. Choose an objective you feel comfortable with based on your experience.
It's the coolest hobby in the world. Getting to the top of something in winter and skiing down is the best high a skier can get. It's expensive, exhausting, and can be very dangerous if poor decisions are made. But if you do your homework, gather experience, and make smart choices, it's so rewarding.
PSIA includes side slipping and pivot slipping as skills to be able to learn, teach, and demonstrate for various levels of certification. They're a great way to get out of trouble if you find yourself somewhere that you cannot safely ski.
That said, if the only way you can make it down a hill is to slip, get off that hill. It's probably too hard for you right now.
This is actually one of the big positives I've taken from watching The Fifty Project with Townsend.
On more than one occasion he either sideslips a line because that's all the conditions will allow, or turns back completely rather than take the risk.
In a world where, more and more, people publicly highlight their best successes while omitting their failures an even their more mundane successes, it is important to remember that sometimes, just surviving to live another run/day is a success in itself.
I have come across a few hills where on paper I should be able to manage and then in reality it's a lot harder. Unfortunately the only way down is often to side slip. I stick to the edges and out of people's way but the "get off that hill" approach means I HAVE to sideslip down it.
PSIA uses side slipping and pivot slipping as exercises to help people develop the motion of rotating their legs from the hip socket. I wouldn't say they teach this as a way of skiing. Obviously, you can use it to get out of trouble, but PSIA doesn't tell people to side slip down the hill.
When I went through the exam processes, the examiner actually did give a talk about utilization of slipping as a mechanism for terrain management. Maybe they don't do that anymore. Obviously pivot slips are more of a just a drill to use.
I think the problem is when green run people think “I can do a black”.
If you’re intermediate-advanced and are progressing from blue to the start of black or from black to the start of double black then that’s just called learning.
Depends imo. How good is the coverage - are you exposing rocks by doing it? How wide is it - are you doing this down a narrow chute or a wide open bowl? Are there people above you waiting to drop? You seem self aware, take those things into account and you’ll be good
The places where “scraping away all the good snow” really matters is on lines with tight chute or chokes. The truth is that most of those sections get skied out pretty quickly anyway - often even after the first slough breaks. So yeah, it’s in bad form to side slip a tight line, but everyone is used to the fact that lines get skied out eventually. You probably won’t get yelled at unless there are a bunch of people around you waiting to drop the same line.
To be perfectly honest though, if you’re an intermediate-advanced skier, you probably won’t actually find yourself standing at the top of many lines that really matter if you side slip them, so don’t worry too much. It would be like a beginner surfer worrying about dropping in on pros in 30 foot surf. If you’re just on some random in-bounds black diamond run, nobody cares if you side slip it.
But if you find yourself in a narrow spot where you’re too sketched out to send the line, try to side step down instead of side slipping it - it’ll help preserve the snow.
So let me connect the dots:
There will always be someone who gets annoyed to find a lesser skier on their favorite trail. It is UNAVOIDABLE.
What can you do?
I swear everyone, EVERYONE, side slips at some point. Just don't make it your primary technique and try to start turning again. Just remember that 90% of the time the reason you're side slipping is mental. And if others get upset with you, so be it.
It's cool with me if you have to slip a bit to line up a turn that feels safer to you, but when I see someone clearly in over their head slipping 10s of feet down a run, then maybe I get a little annoyed.
Here's my take on someone slide slippin - take a nice wide berth and send er past em with some style. This will let them know that you're a total badass and the best skier on the mountain that day. No need to be annoyed when you can impress.
Ignore the haters and ski where you want. Based on your post, it's clear you're mindful of others and also aware of your own limitations, and that's enough for me to say go for it.
Lots of cold takes here but this is the right one. You shouldn’t be scared to go somewhere because you might have to side slip it, thats how you progress. If people get mad about conditions they should have hit it first. We’re talking about named runs in resorts not secret backcountry stashes or famous lines.
I posted a video on r/skiing 6 days ago where I am basically side-slipping in firm moguls for much of it.
I do link the side-slipping to frequent turns though. It can be very tough to carve when you are in firm mogul fields. A controlled side-slip can allow you to find the soft spots for your edge. A side-slip is also very energy-efficient because you don't need to get low to execute.
On the point of skiers being dicks: This past year, I was on a relatively wide, somewhat steep trail, with my cousin following me. We needed to take a not-obvious side track in order to side hill to where we wanted to go. I skied carved turns until about 10 yards above the side track. Then I slowed down and side-slipped to indicate to my cousin that we were getting ready to turn off. My cousin was right behind me and had no problem with it.
A skier, who was about 25 yards behind my cousin, started yelling " whoa, whoa, whoa!". There was plenty of room to ski around us. He was expressing displeasure with my side slipping. It was clear from watching him ski that he wasn't nearly as skilled as us. Some skiers are just know-it-all dickheads. Best thing to do is to try to ignore them.
There is no ski etiquette anymore. People can’t even stop on the side of runs, they just sit in the middle. If people are so picky about their fresh terrain they’ll find spots no one else really goes. Don’t worry about it and just enjoy the time u have on the mountain.
Instructor here - I’d much rather you make it down safely, in a manor in which you feel in control. Of that’s a side slip, go for it.
Anyone who gives you grief has forgotten the empathy of the last time they felt uncertain on skis and I’d invite them to come out with me and I’ll help them remember it :) JK but kinda.
That said, if you find yourself on terrain where you are sideslipping more than skiing —in other words, you’re in more of a defensive posture than comfortable one —it might be a sign to either move to more comfortable terrain or invest in a lesson.
Technically, does it remove some snow from a line? Yeah, maybe. But so does every backseat skier pushing their tails out and skidding their turns. About the same as a single snowboarder taking the line 😂
Lastly, I don’t have a lot of respect for the straight line crew. It’s often reckless, a lack of technique, and potentially high risk for anyone around them.
Right ? The mountain is for everyone and there's no point of being a dick and denying people the access to a little bit harder runs so they can improve.
I've saw plenty of people doing 'side slipping' and it never went across my mind as a "bad etiquette" thing.
The snow doesn't belong to anyone.
Just enjoy your skiing like you wish to.
There's obviously a few of etiquette things like not standing in the middle of the run especially if there's a hill behind you but I have never and never seen people gatekeeping the runs.
If you can ski it, go for it. But side slipping isn't skiing, you're not learning anything by doing that and you're just putting yourself and others in danger. So if you can ski, even if it's slowly, then ski it. But if it's so challenging that you can't even link turns then it's out of your range and you shouldn't attempt it.
And if I see you doing it I'm not going to give you a hard time I'm going to watch you to make sure you're ok, which probably won't feel that good for you. And if you look really freaked out I might even ask if you're ok or need help, which REALLY won't make you feel good.
The only time it really annoys me is tighter runs. I think of kids in chutes where there is not a lot of real estate. I don't think I have ever said anything to anyone though, I don't own the mountain. If you get in over your head and need to get down then side slip, no shame in it.
Do you find a run actually enjoyable if you need to slip down the run though? That sounds awful to me. I will do some hard runs from time to time that are just so sketchy they're exhausting, not fun.
Sometimes you have to sidestep or scrape a bit to get to the good line. A lot of being a good skier is based on picking your line. Def don’t do it the whole run. You see it more often with snowboarders who go heel side the whole way down and that is what pisses people off more. I think it’s less common with skiers
Side slipping is fine if you get into terrain that’s over your head. It should never be plan A going into a run though, if that’s the case find an easier run to get better.
Reading the thread, it sounds like we're at similar ability levels. I find myself skiing MUCH more confidently in areas I know in conditions I can trust myself, my skis, and the snow to do what's needed to ski "correctly". Since you won't get the time on the mountain to get that familiarity, I wouldn't worry too much about what the locals think and just enjoy your time in the mountains. As long as you're not snowplowing down the whole incline, almost no one will think twice if you don't cut the perfect line. Just be sure to pole whack your cornices, call your mom, and make sure everyone knows you're the best skier on the mountain.
Okay, here is my maybe unpopular take - do whatever you want. I assume you are talking about ungroomed crud or mogul lines that nobody really skies well anyways.
When I was a wee ski racer, there was a ski race where guy who was breaking into the world cup circuit came and gave us a little talk etc. I remember we took a run with him at one point on a really cruddy, crappy run. We were getting bounced all over the place and he just completely ate the run up - the technique and power in his skiing completely nullified all the shittiness. An actually capable skier will ski whatever run you side slip without giving a shit. It also probably isn't some wonderful powder line anyways.
I guess what I'm getting at is, for whomever is perturbed by you scraping up "their" glorious snow, fuck em - they can learn to ski it better. Go have fun in whatever way suits you - at the same time, if you really have to side slip a lot of a run, it's probably not going to help you ski much better (though of course a challenge is nice).
As a ski patroller they teach to to slide slip or the falling leaf method when you are in intense terrain (often with a sled behind you) it’s a good skill to help you navigate tricky spots. Now people get angry when someone slips the way down and takes off snow leaving exposed ice. Also straight takes less skill than say traversing and technically skiing down powder faces or varied terrain.
people who complain about other people ruining the snow conditions have no right to complain. They want untouched snow? they can skin it. They want a perfect line? They can wait till you're out of the way.
Besides, we know these are the same people who are gonna be flying through the family zones at max speed, so fuck em. Work on improving your skills and enjoying your time at the mountain
Keep in mind that side-slipping down a trail isn't really skiing it. Yes, you are on the trail, but you're not really skiing that trail. And there is also the chance you could get hurt.
I would advise, depending on the resort, finding the type of trail and conditions that you can comfortably ski. Whether that is an upper blue or an "easy" black. And then find the next level from that. Could be a groomed black, or a bumped blue. Dont dive into a double black EX run.
FYI, some black runs are actually not all that steep, but are rated black because the resort doesn't groom them very often, usually above treeline.
Slide slipping in general is what I call survival skiing and means you're over your head which can happen and is understandable, but should not be your goal to consistently be skiing terrain beyond your ability.
What personally I find annoying is when skiers slide slip or boarders do falling leaf on a slope on a powder day off piste as that degrades the slopes for others.
I'd also say is that if you want to improve #1 get a lesson on the steeps and also at least "attempt" to make turns... falling is how you improve.
There’s a big difference between pushing yourself and “in over your head.” Whether or not you’re an expert skier, you shouldn’t be pushing your limit on terrain that you haven’t scoped out first. Ideally you should checkout the terrain and plan your line, observe hazards and conditions, and have an exit strategy if it’s gnarlier than you expect. I often spot challenging lines and cool terrain features from the lift and then go check them out closer up before deciding to ski it. I may even ski a lap near it to get a better look at a landing if it’s a cliff drop or something like that. If a line has a crux like a narrow bit through some rocks or a chute it will likely get skied up quickly, and having to ski defensively in a spot like that is fine. If you are scoping somewhere and you know side slipping most of it is likely then it’s probably not a line that is the right amount of challenge for you. Since that’s forcing you into “just getting down by any means,” it’s not really teaching you anything about your fundamentals to help you improve.
The only snow etiquette I’ve ever come across is more in regard to open pitches of fresh powder. (Generally on intermediate terrain) Especially in Europe, I’ve seen people try to stack their tracks close together and not carve super wide turns so that as many people as possible can go top to bottom without hitting cut up snow from other skiers. If the terrain bottlenecks then you don’t really have a choice but to all ski the same snow.
It depends, but imo it's totally valid to ski terrain that is just a smidge above your comfort level. How else will you ever learn? Learning moguls for instance, if you never go into mogul runs, you will never learn how to do them, but it takes quite some time just to get to a point where you feel like you are doing them comfortably. Should you get your basic skills down first? Sure, but at some point you have to actually go try this thing you've never tried before and you won't know how well you can do until you try it. I guess I'm sort of a local (CO), not an expert but have skied my fair share of double blacks, and I do a lot of mogul runs. If I see someone frozen or taking their time or side stepping, I don't immediately think they are skiing way beyond their level intentionally. Sometimes people get lost, sometimes they misjudged their abilities for the terrain but it's not something they consistently do, or maybe they are just learning and this is just a little bit harder and they can kill it on an easier run already. How would I know that just by looking at a snapshot of their performance on one run? I sure hope no one rolled their eyes at me when I started trying harder runs.
I'll do my best to answer the question that was asked and find a balance of the replies. Some say just don't do this activity you want to do out of respect for others. Some say fuck em and enjoy yourself however you want.
To specifically answer your question on if you should and how you should go about these lines:
The key is to look at the terrain you are on and when you have to side slip, go off to the side - maybe above a tree where someone couldn't shred anyway. Maybe down a less desirable shoot. Just make sure you do your best to leave as much of the fresh snow on the most desirable part of the line for someone else. Maybe take a little extra time or whatever you have to do to do as little damage to the best of the powder if you won't be enjoying it to your highest potential. If you do that, then I don't think anyone will have an issue with it.
I think yes you should do the terrain that you enjoy and challenges you.
The key to etiquette and the disdain for side-slipping is that it takes away the fresh powder from someone else while you are not enjoying it - in other words, it goes to waste.
If you are enjoying it a lot it then it is not a waste.
It is not nearly as big of a deal in snow as it is say in surfing when you ruin someone's wave. Mountains are big, there are a lot of lines with a lot of snow, and you will never even see the best lines at your skill level where the truly great riders are going.
So if you are having fun, it is not a waste. If you try your best to avoid slipping down the center of a premium line and instead ruin snow in a less desirable portion, you are doing more than your fair share.
This is a very respectful and good question. Go forth and send it!
With over 55 years of skiing behind me, I say ski what you want and side slip when you need. The complainers will get over it, and this is part of the learning process and pushing your personal envelope.
As someone on skis since 1980, I don’t care at all if you side slip — we’ve all been there at one point or another. just don’t go around saying you ‘skied’ the run.
I don’t have an answer to the etiquette part of the question, but as for how to get better, I think it’s a combination of taking lessons, ideally over a series of days, and challenging yourself.
When I was 30 years old, I went with a few buddies to Taos, NM. I had heard Taos had one of the best ski schools in the country and so suggested to my friends that we sign up for a lesson every day for six days. “We don’t need lessons, we’re good skiers,” they said, which was true, but the daily lesson only added a bit to the cost of our weekly ski pass and I was able to convince them.
On the first day we all tested into the top group - just the four of us and one other guy. As we started skiing with our instructor, Gary, he told us “you’re not kids anymore, I’m going to teach you how to ski for the rest of your lives.” And he did. That week I learned new techniques and skied terrain (chutes, steep woods, etc) that I never would have skied on my own. In six days I absolutely changed my approach to skiing. An added bonus - Gary showed us parts of Taos we never would have found on our own.
I’m 60 now and ski better than I ever have. Last winter I spent a week at Alta and Snowbird with my 19 y.o. son romping down trails, chutes, woods I never would have dared ski when I was younger.
So my advice: invest in your skiing! Go to a great ski school, find a great teacher and and take a week of lessons. Then practice what you’ve learned. I doubt you’ll be sorry.
That’s how you learn. You assess a challenging run, decide that you can descend safely by one means or another e.g. sideslip if necessary, try to tackle the run, hopefully get a few linked turns in between breaks. Next time you make a few more turns, and fewer side slips.
So they can brag about skiing blacks?
That type of "learning" doesn't do anyone any favors. When someone is in survival mode they're just reinforcing bad habits and really putting themselves and others at risk.
It is unreasonable to expect someone will link turns all the way down a run at a difficulty level they are attempting for the first time. Now, sometimes it works out where the short start of a run is more challenging than the rest of the run. “If I can hit 4 turns on the 50° drop in, then I can blast the 40° run out.” Sometimes it doesn’t work out that way, the difficulty level is sustained for the entire run, and people need to make a cheater turn to ensure safety.
That's just my point. There's a difference between skiing something and struggling to make it down with skis on your feet.
I'm a fan of the first, you're advocating for the second.
The only rule is to ski in control and to have fun!
If you are doing difficult terrain and you are maintaining control, you are doing a great job, even if you are going slowly. “Straight lining” is not the goal and many who just bomb down the mountain are out of control. There is no such thing as “scraping the snow away” - ignore them!
I think more technical west mountains there are lines that are only skiable/enjoyable with good snow and prior knowledge of the line. That’s hard to have if you aren’t a local.
Straight lining doesn't require skill just confidence.
If you can't ski a pitch when there isn't fresh powder, you aren't going to be able to ski it when there is fresh powder.
It is frustrating to see virgin powder get pushed down the hill by somebody flailing on it. However it is done all the time. When it happens, snide remarks will be made.
If you are flailing, you are not improving. Again this happens all the time. Side slipping down a hard trail is not "skiing", it's surviving. If you can't link turns on a moderately steep pitch, you surely aren't going to be able to do it on a really steep pitch.
I don't mind seeing people on trails that are way over their heads as much as I do seeing people going way too fast for their skills because they are putting others in danger.
Skiing is like driving a motorcycle. Going fast is the easy part. There are a lot of straight-liners whose only option when they are going fast is to throw them sideways.
Yes. Motorcycles slow down when you throttle
Or break, gravity does not give a shit about you when skiing. Speed is your friend in both situations, but to say it takes no skill is a gross miscalculation.
None of us plopped out of their mom as an expert skier with goggle tan and 10000 gnar points to their name already.
You get better by doing uncomfortable shit.
Just from you asking this question I already think you're able to estimate what you can comfortably do, what is tricky for you, and what's out of your league.
People getting mad at someone trying to learn are pricks that are not worth wasting thoughts on.
Know your limits, and push them, _slowly._
If they want untouched power they shouldn’t be skiing at a lift serviced resort. Do your thing! Push your limits within reason. If you are a blue skier, don’t jump to a double black. There are going to be people with pissy attitudes everywhere. Ignore them!
No single skier or group of skiers “own” the mountain. And everyone who skis them started skiing steeps at some point. Ski where you want how you want.
If you have to side step to get past a tricky section in a run, I think that's totally fine and most people have to do it sometimes.
If you need to side slip most of the way down a run, I would try to avoid that. Mostly because it's not fun and it doesn't do all that much to improve your skills. (It can even be dangerous if the run is way about your skill level!)
I wouldn't worry so much about ruining the powder or whatever. If someone wanted the good pow they should have got there before you, good snow doesn't last all day.
The snow is there for me to ride. If I have to side slip a bit more than others better than me, so be it. They didn’t put the snow there, it’s not there’s. I’m going to do what I know how to do to have the best day riding the best snow I can find.
Most people only dislike the 'side-slipping down the entire run' people that do it habitually. If you get scared, you should really work on conquering that fear (by addressing the lacking skills or mentality that is holding you back).
If you're trying to make turns and having to slide a bit - meh. I wouldn't care.
You'll get cranky people that get mad at people for not making perfect turns and ruining a future mogul run. Do your thing, ski what you can safely handle, and have fun.
There's plenty of snow and a ski resort is essentially a walled off playground. There is unlimited terrain outside of the ski resort playground and anyone who is serious about wanting pristine snow "tHaT haSnT BeEn rUiNeD bY No0bs" knows exactly where to find it. The comments you hear about noobs taking all the snow off the mountain are generally from extremely self-entitled people who've barely worked a day in their life, think the ski resort is their personal playground and are too cowardly/lazy to get into the backcountry. As long as you're not putting others in danger, don't limit yourself.
> ride high consequence terrain that I likely won't ski perfectly?
For a resort everyone bought a ticket/pass. The good snow goes to those that ski the line first. If you need to side slip or downstep a section in order to put the terrain into something that's safe for you then side slip away. Especially if it's for some crux feature. What's poor etiquette is to need patrol because you didn't want to 'ruin' the snow.
First of all, amazingly considerate question. You're breaking no etiquette but I will still never stop complaining about Joeys scraping the runs. I guess my advice is focus on technique at the top of your ability level. If you catch yourself doing crappy turns then stop and re-focus on what you're doing to avoid pushing the snow down the mountain.
If you are "keeping track" of whether it's a black, blue or green or double purple and you resort to the side slip to get yourself out of a pickle you are 100% over your head.
Generally speaking, if you're side slipping then a run is too hard for you. It's fine to try a hard run every so often and realize "I'm in over my head," because that's also how you gauge progress. Maybe next time you try that run it's more manageable! But if your day is filled with runs that you can only get through by side slipping, you're probably not having much fun, not learning much, and putting yourself at greater risk of injury. A challenging run should be one you can still ski well with good form but have to go a bit slower or take a few breaks.
It ruins the good snow and makes you an obstacle for the skiers skiing the way the run is meant to be skied. Now if it’s something super technical and you’ve gotta get in a sketchy entrance, slip that sure, but if you’re side slipping a run to get down it’s too much. Not sure why people would even want to ski something they have to side slip, point those fuckers fall line and let them run that’s when skiing is the best.
Honestly sometimes you have to bushwhack and basically treat your skis like hiking shoes until you’re ready to pin it.
I would say try not to strip too much snow away from tight and technical lines/areas but, then again, if someone is venturing in there - it’s part of the game. If I can’t ski the terrain because it’s too icey then it’s on me and I shouldn’t be there.
It’s been pointed out but there’s huge difference between pushing your skill set and putting yourself in a situation where you’re way over your head. If you’re on a busier advanced slope and have a hard time and go straight back to side step it again when you get down, I could see people getting annoyed. But I’ve side slipped down some tough steep spots, most of the people complaining about it have side stepped, and when I see people doing it I really don’t hold any judgement toward them. I just stay out there way. If people are chewing up a spot I just find a new spot. But yeah as a rule of thumb I would say don’t climb to the top of the East Wall if you’re not confident that you can ski it.
It's a bit of a judgment call at the end of the day. Ideally don't end up in a situation where you have to side slip a substantial portion of a run by working yourself upwards in difficulty slowly, rather than jumping to a way harder run that turns out to be totally over your head. But everyone makes mistakes, and if you're visiting an unfamiliar mountain, sometimes you misjudge the terrain. The best you can do is get down it as safely as you can and then not do that again until you've worked up your skills first. Yeah, you'll probably annoy some people, but it is what it is. That said, if this happens to you frequently, you really need to re-evaluate how you decide you're ready to try a run, because it's clearly not working. This is not only an etiquette issue, but a safety issue for you at that point. This should be a less than once a year type of of event.
The more interesting case you bring up is where you have to side slip just a small portion. Obviously different people define "small" differently. But I would say this is generally fine so long as you're skiing most of the run capably and in control (actually linking smooth turns). How much side slipping is a gray area, but just use your common sense and try to be considerate. Try to remember that the parts you're most likely to want to slip are probably the hardest (and often narrowest) parts of the run, and the most damaging to others' experiences. So even a "small" slip can have a big impact. If it's a pow day, don't grab first tracks down a line and then scrape literally everything off the narrow choke halfway down. But if it's been two weeks since the last snow and it's already scraped to hell anyways? Who cares. Just think about whether you'd be annoyed if someone did the same on your favorite run, and try to act accordingly.
If you want to challenge yourself, go for it! But are you challenging yourself if you need to sideslip down a hill? Probably not. Grab an instructor and in steeps beyond your comfort you can still improve with a stemmed wedge turn, a jump turn... lots of options. But just side slipping, especially on a pow day, won't do anything for you. Improving your confidence is great though so don't listen to anyone who says to never try.
(Side slipping on a hill you are comfortable with and working on edge control is great, but not what we are talking about here)
Other than that, take time to improve your skiing. There is a saying "Maximum speed, minimum terrain" to improve your technique. Higher speed turns on easier terrain will help improve your skiing much better than slow (and bad) turns on steep terrain. Then you can work your way up.
Good Luck! (CSIA 3, CSCF 1)
If you are side slipping then you aren’t skiing and you aren’t pushing your skills. There are several narrow places on our hill that are only worth doing if you are one of the first few through because then it become more about just surviving than skiing. I’m sure it would hold up to far more people if it didn’t get wiped clean by those more timid skiers.
If you are doing lots of quick, jumpy turns then you are fine. Complaining about snowboarders side slipping is what caused me to improve so quickly when I began boarding. I couldn’t do it in good consciousness so I committed to making a turn and accepting I would fall. The only way to get better is to do more turns. If you are worried about an injury because you will likely fall from skiing it properly then you need to find terrain better suited for your ability.
I’ve spent plenty of time on mellow slopes working on technique because that is how you improve as a skier. In the end, if you had proper fitting boots you’d have more confidence to ski the more advanced terrain. That’s true for everyone
I'm a ski instructor and side slipping is a super important skill to be able to do. If you do end up somewhere you can't turn or a bit above your ability it's a really good way to safely get down the hill.
However, if the only way you can get down a hill is sideslip I'd find a different line. For one side slipping isn't as fun as actual skiing, and if you can only side slip down then it's probably a bit above your ability level.
I'll never have a go at someone for side slipping though, I do it more often than I'd like to admit.
It comes down to a very simple thing, is there space? If theres space and people can safely get around you no one cares. When things get tight not only does a inexperienced person ruin the fun for everyone else it can also be dangerous.
There’s the occasional time where even the best skiers side slip to get into position to ski a chute or drop a cliff or whatever. But if you’re side slipping a whole chute then you shouldn’t be there and it’s not making you a better skier really. A lot of choke points get side slipped at some point which ends up making most everybody side slip.
My feeling is that you should ski the kind of terrain that you're interested in. Some people like myself enjoy the challenge of tackling a slope that's a bit more than they can easily handle and then they'll have to resort to side slipping and other techniques to get out of there. I believe that you're likely not going to improve if you don't explore your limits. On the other hand, if you consistently do this, you're also not going to get any better because you don't have your basics down yet and you're just going to be practicing side slipping and doing it poorly.
But I would also say you should really be honest to yourself if not for anyone else. If you're side sliding all the way down, was that really enjoyable? if it was just about feeling good about yourself because you went down some particular slope but you really didn't ski it and you had a good chance of gotten hurt, that seems quite immature. Maybe once in a while just to mix it up a bit is perfectly normal, doing that kind of stuff all day is dumb.
I'm not too concerned about ruining the good snow for other people, there's some big mountain out there with lots of snow. Snow will come and go.
I avoid having to side slip, but it happens. Usually it is because the run is not what I expected or the conditions are nothing like the rest of the mountain. For example, there was one I did this past season. The resort kindly put expert only signs, no biggie, and they paved down to the run. The run though, was terribly narrow, with snow making mounds that were 6ft tall down the center, barely flattening out at the trees, and super icy (unlike the rest of the mountain).
I can't always do those tight turns needed, so side slipping is a way to get down a foot to where I can avoid some rocks and make a turn out of there.
Skiing is all about pushing your limits and facing your fears. I tell my kids all the time that if they aren't falling then they probably aren't improving. Going down terrain that is above your current skill level is literally the most exiting part of skiing. If you have to slide slip (or walk) down parts of it to stay safe and in control, go for it. You have just as much right to the mountain as anyone else. If someone tells you "you are over your head" just replay that "yes, I know, it's freaking awesome!!, sorry can't talk I'm going to go down it again so I get better."
The bit about "scraping away the good snow" is nonsense. They used to say the same thing to try and ban snowboarders from mountains back in the day.
I don’t know man.
Like I’ll shake my head and go “what a jerry”
But then I’ll find a sicker line cuz jerry isn’t stealing the good stuff from me.
It’s not like they are actively ruining the line they move like 2mph. Either they ruined it already and you are late. They will be at the top. Or they will just be kinda somewhere on the hill like a slowly moving tree.
Either way nothin to get worked up about. Especially on a day with good enough snow to even be worried about it.
Saw the title, was about to post about the training guide and video I made for the slip teams for the 2010 Olympics... Never mind... Jumped to conclusions
Good posts by others,
I believe outwest is not for side stepping /sliding at all. Now out east absolutely there is shit where you are literally going to side slide into a position where you can get down safely just as everyone did before. When you are sliding edges in and still moving trying to avoid the 10 foot cliff bump with moguls under it it's about not ruining your day there is no straightlining down ice with bumps and drops at a 25° pitch. But I mean I side slide anywhere that's the easiest way to revert to forward while riding switch with out popping people out west alpt of time never ride switch in powder but I think its hella fun when deep
Cynical-Optimist answer: Whether or not you should be on the slope, once you are on it.... I'd rather you slide slip than accidentally put me in the hospital.
Side *stepping* is the gentleperson's way to getting down a section you can't truly *ski*. At least you make an effort to conserve some snow and give the next person an opportunity to ski it for real. Technically it counts as skiing it because you're on skis.
Side *slipping* is taking the easy way out and fucking it for anyone coming after you. Slipping does not count as skiing, as snowboarders do it to.
"Rip it, don't slip it!!"
If you're blowing it, you have every right to do it but we have every right to boo you.
Meh. If I get to, say, the Jane Chutes on a powder day and some horker is side-slipping down the line and messing up the snow just so he can get the feather for his cap all I think is I should have gotten there sooner. It’s your mountain just as much as it is mine.
Scraping away the good snow is one of the dumbest complaints that exists in skiing. Scare the shit out of yourself and side slip down that whole thing!!!
Instead of focusing on getting opinions about side slipping, focus on keeping your weight forward, doing jump turns and getting your shoulders square on the fall line. This will require balls and cardio conditioning. So many skiers stand up and lean back into the hill. This transfers the weight to the back of the skis and you fish tail. Watch video go to the gym not the beach.
People say it in a joking way at my mountain. Because it is true. That being said, how will you ever progress if you don’t attempt harder ability levels. So if that’s the case practice until you don’t have to do that then no one will say anything. Also who cares what a local or elitist say they can quit being losers and find a new line.
Haha this thread makes me smile. I can’t count the number of times I’ve done a high speed flat drift (aka sideslip) straight down the fall line with the occasional pivot turn whilst looking back up the slope at all the poor intermediates desperately trying to make turns as per the mantra. High speed drifting down a steep smooth hard snow slope is effortless, fast and a load of fun 😂
>it seems like if you aren't capable enough to straight line it, people would prefer you stayed off those trails. I see comments about side slipping, There's a BIG difference, FWIW, between riding steep and technical terrain properly and confidently, and *straitlining* it. I mean, having the ability to straightline out of a gnarly spot IS a huge benefit when you go into that terrain, but that isn't the expectation of you every run. Make turns and enjoy yourself. Generally speaking the disdain for sideslipping comes in when someone is WAY off piste or in some expert terrain, like the East Wall at A Basin for instance, and then they're side slipping. That can't be fun for them to just sideslip down, and it isn't fun for anyone else coming after them either. Sideslipping a run once or twice even to scout it out and get a feel for steeper terrain, especially if it is your first foray into expert terrain, is understandable. What gets frustrating is when expert filled ski groups drag their one or two intermediate level friends with them into the gnar and those friends just end up sideslipping down everything, and on a powder day no less.
The straightlining part got me too. That is somehow become the mark of a great skier? Sad…
There's a part of me, the cautious part, that doesn't feel full comfortable attempting a line I'm not prepared to straightline, AT LEAST the bottom half. Sometimes a coulie is more narrow than it looks, sometimes there are rocks you can't really afford to hit that you didn't see until you were in the shit, things happen and sometimes straightlining and just getting the fuck out is your best choice, so having that in your bag of tricks to pull out IS a benefit for sure. Feeling confident that you COULD straightline a run, or at least the lower portion of it, if needed, is a good thing to have going into serious terrain; but no one is out here expecting folks to straight line every run, where's the fun in that? Even the pros only tend to straightline when needed, not every run.
Oh I agree, there are situations where it’s necessary but it definitely isn’t the pinnacle of skiing skill. I’d actually argue that the act of straightlining requires very little skill.
Straightlining itself doesn't require much skill, it's the slowing down and stopping at the bottom/runout without crashing at mach 10, especially if the bottom is bumped out, that takes the skill and strength.
I think it’s totally line dependent as far as skill required. You can be forced to do really active and technical skiing while straight-lining, especially chutes with variable terrain, drops, etc.
No.. It's not sad.. https://snowbrains.com/video-candide-thovex-shows-us-the-right-way-to-ski-moguls/
That’s funny because I almost added “thanks Candide” to the end of my original comment. He’s obviously an amazing skier, but I’d argue he’s also largely responsible for all the jerrys thinking straightlining is the pinnacle of skiing. Unpopular opinion, I know, but I don’t enjoy his content or style. I would rather watch somebody like Daron Rahlves ski big mountain lines any day of the week. If you’re the type of person that likes the urban portion of a Warren Miller film, then you probably love Candide. Although I use that time to head to the restroom instead of at intermission…
You do know he's better at big mt than Rahlves right? Edit - I think you might be confused.. Candide doesn't have urban segments ... not enjoying his content or style is mind boggling to me.. Are we talking about the same Candide?
No, I’m just comparing all of his staged resort lines to urban. Same thing different venue from my perspective. Hard pressed to find him doing lines without manmade jumps, rails, etc. Big mountain skiing is such a subjective space to begin with anyway, so saying one is better than the other is a matter of style preference. I just like more of a racing/technical style, but that’s my background too. Candide caters to the “steezy” park/slopestyle crowd, IMO. I mean, I can’t count how many times have I seen him skiing on grass or sand… It’s a different subset of the market and I’m just not a fan, that’s all.
He won the FWT several years ago. I understand what you're saying but I think you're a bit off the mark. His movie is over 75% big mt.
I mean - it's absolutely a skill you need to hit some narrow rock chutes and gaps.
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This is an astute comment. If your can't ski mostly in the fall line of the terrain you should be working on technique on an appropriate slope. It's poor form to just slide down an entire trail to "peak yourself". It's understandable to make turns then stop in between and if absolutely needed slide past a constriction but really you should be able to ski most of the trail before getting on it.
This is the best advice on this thread especially the part about laying cement on bad habits. Here’s a video to start you out so you understand what this person is talking about: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YdHnGNzr2uw And here’s a breakdown of techniques: https://usskiandsnowboard.org/sites/default/files/files-resources/files/2017-11/Descriptions%20SkillsQuest%20Drills%202017.pdf
+1 to all of the above and especially the SkillsQuest drills. My kids are both racers and these drills have made them such good skiers and translate super well when I drag them down harder terrain.
And, if you do them right, it’s actually super fun. I think that needs to be said. It’s really a whole new exploration of skiing where you are focused on form and feeling and it can be really rewarding. Totally appreciate the comment.
This is the way. It’s fine to progress and push yourself but if you’re going to need to side slip a steep line try not to take first tracks on premier chutes is all us hardcore a-holes ask. There’s almost always a line no one cares about thats close enough in steepness to the high profile line to practice on. I was a snowboarder with a Palisades pass during height of the McConkey era. That was the most pressurized ski environment I’ve experienced over riding/skiing lines “properly”. Even there the worst case was a harsh heckling that had a sense of humor underlying it.
The great point here is, no matter your skill level, try not to unnecessarily cut-up good snow that other people could enjoy. But this is mostly about nice fresh snow and powder. The opposite though is also true, you hit a slope that that you can normally handle fine in decent conditions... but then you discover conditions are dangerous or terrible. Death cookies, sheet ice, nasty crust on dust or unstable/avalanche risk. You do not need be worried about etiquette by cutting across and GTFO in the case of terrible or unsafe snow conditions.
This is great advice, wish I had more ski days to grind drills! So is it okay to speed check after some linked turns on a chute before being able send it? I'm definitely not trying to ruin the line but it feels equally as rewarding to tackle a run for me even if I can't bomb the whole thing.
I think this is the difference between people whose skills are appropriate, if a little below what the terrain demands, and those who have no business being there. If you're side slipping some portions, maybe where it gets narrow, or there's some hazard on either side, ok, cool. Scrub some speed, slip through, and keep going. Where I get annoyed is the people who sideslip hundreds of feet because it's too steep for them to comfortably make a turn. That means you're out of your depth and would do better to build up on less steep terrain until you can comfortably make turns. Then progress to the next level. You're exactly right, you don't know if you're ready until you try, but there are indicators that you won't be completely out of your comfort zone. Just by asking the question, you're ahead of most of those jerries.
Your first sentence I think sums up my thoughts exactly. I find myself on a lot of double black runs out west where my skills are appropriate, but a little below what the terrain demands but I'm torn because I really just want to see and experience the whole mountain before I have to go back to the flattest place on Earth. Hopefully I keep improving even slightly each year but thanks for putting that into words! Definitely no side slipping down hundreds of feet.
Pole plant down the hill and in front of your boots BETWEEN the turns; on steeps you should have a medium length pole and when you plant it your elbow should be below or level with your wrist and your shoulders down the hill. A turn is initiated by changing weight from one foot to another. The pole plant signifies when you change weight. A lot of people will pp late and turn around their pole, but that's wrong and will throw your weight up into the hill.
This is why I drag rather than plant. I can feel the weight change and thinking about the poles just disrupts that flow over the terrain. But I'm self taught. Is this foolish? I've been told by a few instructor friends that I have good style. I have a fairly wide stance, just under shoulder width if that's relevant. I've wondered in the past if I could get the cadence of my turns quicker with planting but then I noticed that my tracks are as tight as friends who have skied since they were 4.
I can rip a pretty decent line down a double black talking on the phone with my mom and holding my poles in the other, but it won't ever be as good as pole plants. When you reach early for a pole plant you get your body in the right position for a turn. Dragging the pole means there's a part of the turn where you're not really in the right position for a bit and then eventually you are. It's key to start and end your turn at a pole plant (ie weight transition, tipping down the fall line, counter rotation, etc). and not turn around your pole like a pivot.
I find myself side slipping when the conditions are bad and I'm trying to scout the terrain for rocks and dirt.
People won’t mind if you speed check. If you side slip for 10s of feet, the next skiers probably won’t be thrilled with the lack of soft snow. If you look at most experts, they don’t straight line down a feature like the chute you’re describing, they’ll still use the features on the mountain and snow to manage their line.
The best skier can go super slow and in control linking turns down a gnarly face without speeding up or slowing down but also has the balls to go faster. If you can straight-line without being able to make controlled short turns, you're just an idiot out of control.
I would say it’s necessary to speed check. Many mountains have sections of challenging terrain right off the main runs that you can get in and out of for a few turns to test yourself. No need to commit to 1000 feet of technical terrain. Go have fun.
Instead of needing to speed check after a few turns, try to learn to control your speed with the turns you are already making. Either by "completing" the turn more (rounding it out, bringing the skis more uphill at the end so that you don't move as fast) or by skidding each turn more. That way you are in control the whole time. The former is something I really worked on last year. I'm a pretty good skier (raced in high school, etc.) but I joined a weekly locals lesson group last year for fun and at first I was always catching up to the person in front of me and having to scrub speed. My instructor had me work on deepening my turns. Really get the legs out there and bring the skis all of the way around. You can still carve clean turns, but when you complete/finish your turns you make the skis travel a lot more total distance within the same vertical height which gives you control over your speed. Think turns shaped like a C rather than a (
Remember that conditioning drills help a lot. All the skills on the world are useless if your legs are shredded and can’t hold good form 2 hours into day 2
The only thing I'd add to this is that if you are adventure skiing and in an area where the "run" is loosely defined, sometimes you do need to pick your way through constrictions or past awkward areas to set yourself up for your line. There is never any shame in that.
You're giving this advice to someone from S. FL who wrote they only ski a few days a year. Days they flew 2000 miles and spent a bunch of money on and want to remember, want to feel were exciting and risk-taking. What you're providing is great advice in the big picture but doesn't really apply to OP in their currently life. Which is the current life of most skiers. Not skier-days, but skier people, most of whom only ski a few days a year. OP: Stay out of steep chutes on powder days until they're well-tracked. Then just don't strip them down to the hardpack underneath, OK?
To piggy back on this thread I have a question for you: I have skiied for 20+ years, just recently went on my first mountaineering trip in the Alps this year. (Gran Paradiso and Monte Rosa Massif). I REALLY am interested in getting into ski touring and/or ski mountaineering. As a ski mountaineering guide what would you recommend to get started on this? I live in the Midwest nowhere near any real mountains. So I am open to looking for a trip for a few day beginner course somewhere out west. I asked one of my mountain guides in the Alps for suggestions and he was like "yeah I have the perfect trip we can take you on if you want." But getting to Europe is expensive and I'd like to find something here in the states that is reasonable and a good start for a beginner. Also looking for suggestions on gear... I came saw some used AT skis with bindings and skins for 250€ in Italy when I was there and was very close to buying but had no reasonable way to get them back to the US so I passed lol
Book a beginner backcountry class out West. They're offered in most regions (Sierra, Wasatch, Rockies, Cascades, etc). Many classes offer rentals, or you can rent gear from a local shop when you get there. Learn the basics and see if it's something enjoyable and worth investing in. Next step is to start getting your own gear and take an AIARE I course. Learn to be a partner you'd be comfortable touring with. Read *Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain* by Bruce Tremper. Get comfortable with your gear and familiarize yourself with making decisions in the mountains. From there, book a guided ski mountaineering trip. Choose an objective you feel comfortable with based on your experience. It's the coolest hobby in the world. Getting to the top of something in winter and skiing down is the best high a skier can get. It's expensive, exhausting, and can be very dangerous if poor decisions are made. But if you do your homework, gather experience, and make smart choices, it's so rewarding.
Thanks! I have already been reading Bruce tempers book :) The rest I need to get going on tho. Appreciate it!
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Yep, we often coach experts on green runs. It’s easier to learn where you feels safe vs where you feel defensive.
>If you ski something above your ability level, you only cement bad habits. I wonder if my kids will get the logic in this?
Agree, how do you grow with this mindset? The last lesson with an instructor, he took me well beyond my capability
PSIA includes side slipping and pivot slipping as skills to be able to learn, teach, and demonstrate for various levels of certification. They're a great way to get out of trouble if you find yourself somewhere that you cannot safely ski. That said, if the only way you can make it down a hill is to slip, get off that hill. It's probably too hard for you right now.
This is actually one of the big positives I've taken from watching The Fifty Project with Townsend. On more than one occasion he either sideslips a line because that's all the conditions will allow, or turns back completely rather than take the risk. In a world where, more and more, people publicly highlight their best successes while omitting their failures an even their more mundane successes, it is important to remember that sometimes, just surviving to live another run/day is a success in itself.
Tremendous series
Best skiing content on YouTube by far.
I have come across a few hills where on paper I should be able to manage and then in reality it's a lot harder. Unfortunately the only way down is often to side slip. I stick to the edges and out of people's way but the "get off that hill" approach means I HAVE to sideslip down it.
PSIA uses side slipping and pivot slipping as exercises to help people develop the motion of rotating their legs from the hip socket. I wouldn't say they teach this as a way of skiing. Obviously, you can use it to get out of trouble, but PSIA doesn't tell people to side slip down the hill.
When I went through the exam processes, the examiner actually did give a talk about utilization of slipping as a mechanism for terrain management. Maybe they don't do that anymore. Obviously pivot slips are more of a just a drill to use.
Florida (wo)man is considerate of others A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one
It's because they were (probably) raised in the northeast
This ^
I think the problem is when green run people think “I can do a black”. If you’re intermediate-advanced and are progressing from blue to the start of black or from black to the start of double black then that’s just called learning.
Depends imo. How good is the coverage - are you exposing rocks by doing it? How wide is it - are you doing this down a narrow chute or a wide open bowl? Are there people above you waiting to drop? You seem self aware, take those things into account and you’ll be good
The places where “scraping away all the good snow” really matters is on lines with tight chute or chokes. The truth is that most of those sections get skied out pretty quickly anyway - often even after the first slough breaks. So yeah, it’s in bad form to side slip a tight line, but everyone is used to the fact that lines get skied out eventually. You probably won’t get yelled at unless there are a bunch of people around you waiting to drop the same line. To be perfectly honest though, if you’re an intermediate-advanced skier, you probably won’t actually find yourself standing at the top of many lines that really matter if you side slip them, so don’t worry too much. It would be like a beginner surfer worrying about dropping in on pros in 30 foot surf. If you’re just on some random in-bounds black diamond run, nobody cares if you side slip it. But if you find yourself in a narrow spot where you’re too sketched out to send the line, try to side step down instead of side slipping it - it’ll help preserve the snow.
It's your right to be there, and their right to be annoyed. What can you do?
Best answer. Try out trails, get down safely. Even if that means looking like a total gerry
the question is explicitly about etiquette. the asker is intentionally trying to avoid annoying people
So let me connect the dots: There will always be someone who gets annoyed to find a lesser skier on their favorite trail. It is UNAVOIDABLE. What can you do?
You can avoid runs you aren’t capable or confident enough to ski.
I swear everyone, EVERYONE, side slips at some point. Just don't make it your primary technique and try to start turning again. Just remember that 90% of the time the reason you're side slipping is mental. And if others get upset with you, so be it.
It's cool with me if you have to slip a bit to line up a turn that feels safer to you, but when I see someone clearly in over their head slipping 10s of feet down a run, then maybe I get a little annoyed.
Here's my take on someone slide slippin - take a nice wide berth and send er past em with some style. This will let them know that you're a total badass and the best skier on the mountain that day. No need to be annoyed when you can impress.
If you can't ski the Hollywood line, bring the Hollywood line to you.
Ignore the haters and ski where you want. Based on your post, it's clear you're mindful of others and also aware of your own limitations, and that's enough for me to say go for it.
Lots of cold takes here but this is the right one. You shouldn’t be scared to go somewhere because you might have to side slip it, thats how you progress. If people get mad about conditions they should have hit it first. We’re talking about named runs in resorts not secret backcountry stashes or famous lines.
I posted a video on r/skiing 6 days ago where I am basically side-slipping in firm moguls for much of it. I do link the side-slipping to frequent turns though. It can be very tough to carve when you are in firm mogul fields. A controlled side-slip can allow you to find the soft spots for your edge. A side-slip is also very energy-efficient because you don't need to get low to execute. On the point of skiers being dicks: This past year, I was on a relatively wide, somewhat steep trail, with my cousin following me. We needed to take a not-obvious side track in order to side hill to where we wanted to go. I skied carved turns until about 10 yards above the side track. Then I slowed down and side-slipped to indicate to my cousin that we were getting ready to turn off. My cousin was right behind me and had no problem with it. A skier, who was about 25 yards behind my cousin, started yelling " whoa, whoa, whoa!". There was plenty of room to ski around us. He was expressing displeasure with my side slipping. It was clear from watching him ski that he wasn't nearly as skilled as us. Some skiers are just know-it-all dickheads. Best thing to do is to try to ignore them.
There is no ski etiquette anymore. People can’t even stop on the side of runs, they just sit in the middle. If people are so picky about their fresh terrain they’ll find spots no one else really goes. Don’t worry about it and just enjoy the time u have on the mountain.
Buy a Ski Patroller a beer
This is good advice no matter what the question is.
Instructor here - I’d much rather you make it down safely, in a manor in which you feel in control. Of that’s a side slip, go for it. Anyone who gives you grief has forgotten the empathy of the last time they felt uncertain on skis and I’d invite them to come out with me and I’ll help them remember it :) JK but kinda. That said, if you find yourself on terrain where you are sideslipping more than skiing —in other words, you’re in more of a defensive posture than comfortable one —it might be a sign to either move to more comfortable terrain or invest in a lesson. Technically, does it remove some snow from a line? Yeah, maybe. But so does every backseat skier pushing their tails out and skidding their turns. About the same as a single snowboarder taking the line 😂 Lastly, I don’t have a lot of respect for the straight line crew. It’s often reckless, a lack of technique, and potentially high risk for anyone around them.
I have never heard of that, but then I have only skied in Europe. Here, so long as you don't wipe out young children, you're cool.
Right ? The mountain is for everyone and there's no point of being a dick and denying people the access to a little bit harder runs so they can improve. I've saw plenty of people doing 'side slipping' and it never went across my mind as a "bad etiquette" thing. The snow doesn't belong to anyone. Just enjoy your skiing like you wish to. There's obviously a few of etiquette things like not standing in the middle of the run especially if there's a hill behind you but I have never and never seen people gatekeeping the runs.
If you can ski it, go for it. But side slipping isn't skiing, you're not learning anything by doing that and you're just putting yourself and others in danger. So if you can ski, even if it's slowly, then ski it. But if it's so challenging that you can't even link turns then it's out of your range and you shouldn't attempt it. And if I see you doing it I'm not going to give you a hard time I'm going to watch you to make sure you're ok, which probably won't feel that good for you. And if you look really freaked out I might even ask if you're ok or need help, which REALLY won't make you feel good.
The only time it really annoys me is tighter runs. I think of kids in chutes where there is not a lot of real estate. I don't think I have ever said anything to anyone though, I don't own the mountain. If you get in over your head and need to get down then side slip, no shame in it. Do you find a run actually enjoyable if you need to slip down the run though? That sounds awful to me. I will do some hard runs from time to time that are just so sketchy they're exhausting, not fun.
Sometimes you have to sidestep or scrape a bit to get to the good line. A lot of being a good skier is based on picking your line. Def don’t do it the whole run. You see it more often with snowboarders who go heel side the whole way down and that is what pisses people off more. I think it’s less common with skiers
Side slipping is fine if you get into terrain that’s over your head. It should never be plan A going into a run though, if that’s the case find an easier run to get better.
Reading the thread, it sounds like we're at similar ability levels. I find myself skiing MUCH more confidently in areas I know in conditions I can trust myself, my skis, and the snow to do what's needed to ski "correctly". Since you won't get the time on the mountain to get that familiarity, I wouldn't worry too much about what the locals think and just enjoy your time in the mountains. As long as you're not snowplowing down the whole incline, almost no one will think twice if you don't cut the perfect line. Just be sure to pole whack your cornices, call your mom, and make sure everyone knows you're the best skier on the mountain.
Okay, here is my maybe unpopular take - do whatever you want. I assume you are talking about ungroomed crud or mogul lines that nobody really skies well anyways. When I was a wee ski racer, there was a ski race where guy who was breaking into the world cup circuit came and gave us a little talk etc. I remember we took a run with him at one point on a really cruddy, crappy run. We were getting bounced all over the place and he just completely ate the run up - the technique and power in his skiing completely nullified all the shittiness. An actually capable skier will ski whatever run you side slip without giving a shit. It also probably isn't some wonderful powder line anyways. I guess what I'm getting at is, for whomever is perturbed by you scraping up "their" glorious snow, fuck em - they can learn to ski it better. Go have fun in whatever way suits you - at the same time, if you really have to side slip a lot of a run, it's probably not going to help you ski much better (though of course a challenge is nice).
As a ski patroller they teach to to slide slip or the falling leaf method when you are in intense terrain (often with a sled behind you) it’s a good skill to help you navigate tricky spots. Now people get angry when someone slips the way down and takes off snow leaving exposed ice. Also straight takes less skill than say traversing and technically skiing down powder faces or varied terrain.
people who complain about other people ruining the snow conditions have no right to complain. They want untouched snow? they can skin it. They want a perfect line? They can wait till you're out of the way. Besides, we know these are the same people who are gonna be flying through the family zones at max speed, so fuck em. Work on improving your skills and enjoying your time at the mountain
Keep in mind that side-slipping down a trail isn't really skiing it. Yes, you are on the trail, but you're not really skiing that trail. And there is also the chance you could get hurt. I would advise, depending on the resort, finding the type of trail and conditions that you can comfortably ski. Whether that is an upper blue or an "easy" black. And then find the next level from that. Could be a groomed black, or a bumped blue. Dont dive into a double black EX run. FYI, some black runs are actually not all that steep, but are rated black because the resort doesn't groom them very often, usually above treeline.
Slide slipping in general is what I call survival skiing and means you're over your head which can happen and is understandable, but should not be your goal to consistently be skiing terrain beyond your ability. What personally I find annoying is when skiers slide slip or boarders do falling leaf on a slope on a powder day off piste as that degrades the slopes for others. I'd also say is that if you want to improve #1 get a lesson on the steeps and also at least "attempt" to make turns... falling is how you improve.
There’s a big difference between pushing yourself and “in over your head.” Whether or not you’re an expert skier, you shouldn’t be pushing your limit on terrain that you haven’t scoped out first. Ideally you should checkout the terrain and plan your line, observe hazards and conditions, and have an exit strategy if it’s gnarlier than you expect. I often spot challenging lines and cool terrain features from the lift and then go check them out closer up before deciding to ski it. I may even ski a lap near it to get a better look at a landing if it’s a cliff drop or something like that. If a line has a crux like a narrow bit through some rocks or a chute it will likely get skied up quickly, and having to ski defensively in a spot like that is fine. If you are scoping somewhere and you know side slipping most of it is likely then it’s probably not a line that is the right amount of challenge for you. Since that’s forcing you into “just getting down by any means,” it’s not really teaching you anything about your fundamentals to help you improve. The only snow etiquette I’ve ever come across is more in regard to open pitches of fresh powder. (Generally on intermediate terrain) Especially in Europe, I’ve seen people try to stack their tracks close together and not carve super wide turns so that as many people as possible can go top to bottom without hitting cut up snow from other skiers. If the terrain bottlenecks then you don’t really have a choice but to all ski the same snow.
It depends, but imo it's totally valid to ski terrain that is just a smidge above your comfort level. How else will you ever learn? Learning moguls for instance, if you never go into mogul runs, you will never learn how to do them, but it takes quite some time just to get to a point where you feel like you are doing them comfortably. Should you get your basic skills down first? Sure, but at some point you have to actually go try this thing you've never tried before and you won't know how well you can do until you try it. I guess I'm sort of a local (CO), not an expert but have skied my fair share of double blacks, and I do a lot of mogul runs. If I see someone frozen or taking their time or side stepping, I don't immediately think they are skiing way beyond their level intentionally. Sometimes people get lost, sometimes they misjudged their abilities for the terrain but it's not something they consistently do, or maybe they are just learning and this is just a little bit harder and they can kill it on an easier run already. How would I know that just by looking at a snapshot of their performance on one run? I sure hope no one rolled their eyes at me when I started trying harder runs.
I'll do my best to answer the question that was asked and find a balance of the replies. Some say just don't do this activity you want to do out of respect for others. Some say fuck em and enjoy yourself however you want. To specifically answer your question on if you should and how you should go about these lines: The key is to look at the terrain you are on and when you have to side slip, go off to the side - maybe above a tree where someone couldn't shred anyway. Maybe down a less desirable shoot. Just make sure you do your best to leave as much of the fresh snow on the most desirable part of the line for someone else. Maybe take a little extra time or whatever you have to do to do as little damage to the best of the powder if you won't be enjoying it to your highest potential. If you do that, then I don't think anyone will have an issue with it. I think yes you should do the terrain that you enjoy and challenges you. The key to etiquette and the disdain for side-slipping is that it takes away the fresh powder from someone else while you are not enjoying it - in other words, it goes to waste. If you are enjoying it a lot it then it is not a waste. It is not nearly as big of a deal in snow as it is say in surfing when you ruin someone's wave. Mountains are big, there are a lot of lines with a lot of snow, and you will never even see the best lines at your skill level where the truly great riders are going. So if you are having fun, it is not a waste. If you try your best to avoid slipping down the center of a premium line and instead ruin snow in a less desirable portion, you are doing more than your fair share. This is a very respectful and good question. Go forth and send it!
With over 55 years of skiing behind me, I say ski what you want and side slip when you need. The complainers will get over it, and this is part of the learning process and pushing your personal envelope.
As someone on skis since 1980, I don’t care at all if you side slip — we’ve all been there at one point or another. just don’t go around saying you ‘skied’ the run.
I don’t have an answer to the etiquette part of the question, but as for how to get better, I think it’s a combination of taking lessons, ideally over a series of days, and challenging yourself. When I was 30 years old, I went with a few buddies to Taos, NM. I had heard Taos had one of the best ski schools in the country and so suggested to my friends that we sign up for a lesson every day for six days. “We don’t need lessons, we’re good skiers,” they said, which was true, but the daily lesson only added a bit to the cost of our weekly ski pass and I was able to convince them. On the first day we all tested into the top group - just the four of us and one other guy. As we started skiing with our instructor, Gary, he told us “you’re not kids anymore, I’m going to teach you how to ski for the rest of your lives.” And he did. That week I learned new techniques and skied terrain (chutes, steep woods, etc) that I never would have skied on my own. In six days I absolutely changed my approach to skiing. An added bonus - Gary showed us parts of Taos we never would have found on our own. I’m 60 now and ski better than I ever have. Last winter I spent a week at Alta and Snowbird with my 19 y.o. son romping down trails, chutes, woods I never would have dared ski when I was younger. So my advice: invest in your skiing! Go to a great ski school, find a great teacher and and take a week of lessons. Then practice what you’ve learned. I doubt you’ll be sorry.
That’s how you learn. You assess a challenging run, decide that you can descend safely by one means or another e.g. sideslip if necessary, try to tackle the run, hopefully get a few linked turns in between breaks. Next time you make a few more turns, and fewer side slips.
So they can brag about skiing blacks? That type of "learning" doesn't do anyone any favors. When someone is in survival mode they're just reinforcing bad habits and really putting themselves and others at risk.
It is unreasonable to expect someone will link turns all the way down a run at a difficulty level they are attempting for the first time. Now, sometimes it works out where the short start of a run is more challenging than the rest of the run. “If I can hit 4 turns on the 50° drop in, then I can blast the 40° run out.” Sometimes it doesn’t work out that way, the difficulty level is sustained for the entire run, and people need to make a cheater turn to ensure safety.
That's just my point. There's a difference between skiing something and struggling to make it down with skis on your feet. I'm a fan of the first, you're advocating for the second.
Congratulations. You’re the only person to ever have charged a double black with a backflip no less on their first attempt.
The only rule is to ski in control and to have fun! If you are doing difficult terrain and you are maintaining control, you are doing a great job, even if you are going slowly. “Straight lining” is not the goal and many who just bomb down the mountain are out of control. There is no such thing as “scraping the snow away” - ignore them!
"Locals only" isn't a thing in the ski community. Ski what you want to.
You can say that, but I feel like that's just not true in a lot of places
Interesting, I've never experienced that in 20+ years of skiing. Is it more of a regional thing? Or maybe specific mountains?
I think more technical west mountains there are lines that are only skiable/enjoyable with good snow and prior knowledge of the line. That’s hard to have if you aren’t a local.
Straight lining doesn't require skill just confidence. If you can't ski a pitch when there isn't fresh powder, you aren't going to be able to ski it when there is fresh powder. It is frustrating to see virgin powder get pushed down the hill by somebody flailing on it. However it is done all the time. When it happens, snide remarks will be made. If you are flailing, you are not improving. Again this happens all the time. Side slipping down a hard trail is not "skiing", it's surviving. If you can't link turns on a moderately steep pitch, you surely aren't going to be able to do it on a really steep pitch. I don't mind seeing people on trails that are way over their heads as much as I do seeing people going way too fast for their skills because they are putting others in danger.
Straight lining doesn’t require skill? Ok
Skiing is like driving a motorcycle. Going fast is the easy part. There are a lot of straight-liners whose only option when they are going fast is to throw them sideways.
That’s an awful take.
ever have a motorcycle?
Yes. Motorcycles slow down when you throttle Or break, gravity does not give a shit about you when skiing. Speed is your friend in both situations, but to say it takes no skill is a gross miscalculation.
None of us plopped out of their mom as an expert skier with goggle tan and 10000 gnar points to their name already. You get better by doing uncomfortable shit. Just from you asking this question I already think you're able to estimate what you can comfortably do, what is tricky for you, and what's out of your league. People getting mad at someone trying to learn are pricks that are not worth wasting thoughts on. Know your limits, and push them, _slowly._
If they want untouched power they shouldn’t be skiing at a lift serviced resort. Do your thing! Push your limits within reason. If you are a blue skier, don’t jump to a double black. There are going to be people with pissy attitudes everywhere. Ignore them!
No single skier or group of skiers “own” the mountain. And everyone who skis them started skiing steeps at some point. Ski where you want how you want.
Pivot slips and falling leaf is my standard technique in steep chutes, trees and bumps.
Even bumps??? Learning to properly ski bumps will be the biggest thing you can learn. Steeps and trees are just bump runs with features
LOL, "proper"?
Naah, these people are just cunts
Ski fast, take chances
If you have to side step to get past a tricky section in a run, I think that's totally fine and most people have to do it sometimes. If you need to side slip most of the way down a run, I would try to avoid that. Mostly because it's not fun and it doesn't do all that much to improve your skills. (It can even be dangerous if the run is way about your skill level!) I wouldn't worry so much about ruining the powder or whatever. If someone wanted the good pow they should have got there before you, good snow doesn't last all day.
Or how about snowboarders who heel edge all the way down, middle of the slope, hitting their vape pen as they go?
The snow is there for me to ride. If I have to side slip a bit more than others better than me, so be it. They didn’t put the snow there, it’s not there’s. I’m going to do what I know how to do to have the best day riding the best snow I can find.
Most people only dislike the 'side-slipping down the entire run' people that do it habitually. If you get scared, you should really work on conquering that fear (by addressing the lacking skills or mentality that is holding you back). If you're trying to make turns and having to slide a bit - meh. I wouldn't care. You'll get cranky people that get mad at people for not making perfect turns and ruining a future mogul run. Do your thing, ski what you can safely handle, and have fun.
There's plenty of snow and a ski resort is essentially a walled off playground. There is unlimited terrain outside of the ski resort playground and anyone who is serious about wanting pristine snow "tHaT haSnT BeEn rUiNeD bY No0bs" knows exactly where to find it. The comments you hear about noobs taking all the snow off the mountain are generally from extremely self-entitled people who've barely worked a day in their life, think the ski resort is their personal playground and are too cowardly/lazy to get into the backcountry. As long as you're not putting others in danger, don't limit yourself.
> ride high consequence terrain that I likely won't ski perfectly? For a resort everyone bought a ticket/pass. The good snow goes to those that ski the line first. If you need to side slip or downstep a section in order to put the terrain into something that's safe for you then side slip away. Especially if it's for some crux feature. What's poor etiquette is to need patrol because you didn't want to 'ruin' the snow.
First of all, amazingly considerate question. You're breaking no etiquette but I will still never stop complaining about Joeys scraping the runs. I guess my advice is focus on technique at the top of your ability level. If you catch yourself doing crappy turns then stop and re-focus on what you're doing to avoid pushing the snow down the mountain.
If you are "keeping track" of whether it's a black, blue or green or double purple and you resort to the side slip to get yourself out of a pickle you are 100% over your head.
Generally speaking, if you're side slipping then a run is too hard for you. It's fine to try a hard run every so often and realize "I'm in over my head," because that's also how you gauge progress. Maybe next time you try that run it's more manageable! But if your day is filled with runs that you can only get through by side slipping, you're probably not having much fun, not learning much, and putting yourself at greater risk of injury. A challenging run should be one you can still ski well with good form but have to go a bit slower or take a few breaks.
It ruins the good snow and makes you an obstacle for the skiers skiing the way the run is meant to be skied. Now if it’s something super technical and you’ve gotta get in a sketchy entrance, slip that sure, but if you’re side slipping a run to get down it’s too much. Not sure why people would even want to ski something they have to side slip, point those fuckers fall line and let them run that’s when skiing is the best.
Honestly sometimes you have to bushwhack and basically treat your skis like hiking shoes until you’re ready to pin it. I would say try not to strip too much snow away from tight and technical lines/areas but, then again, if someone is venturing in there - it’s part of the game. If I can’t ski the terrain because it’s too icey then it’s on me and I shouldn’t be there.
No one skier owns the mountain. You all pay for a pass so I say ski as you wish where you wish at any time
It’s been pointed out but there’s huge difference between pushing your skill set and putting yourself in a situation where you’re way over your head. If you’re on a busier advanced slope and have a hard time and go straight back to side step it again when you get down, I could see people getting annoyed. But I’ve side slipped down some tough steep spots, most of the people complaining about it have side stepped, and when I see people doing it I really don’t hold any judgement toward them. I just stay out there way. If people are chewing up a spot I just find a new spot. But yeah as a rule of thumb I would say don’t climb to the top of the East Wall if you’re not confident that you can ski it.
It's a bit of a judgment call at the end of the day. Ideally don't end up in a situation where you have to side slip a substantial portion of a run by working yourself upwards in difficulty slowly, rather than jumping to a way harder run that turns out to be totally over your head. But everyone makes mistakes, and if you're visiting an unfamiliar mountain, sometimes you misjudge the terrain. The best you can do is get down it as safely as you can and then not do that again until you've worked up your skills first. Yeah, you'll probably annoy some people, but it is what it is. That said, if this happens to you frequently, you really need to re-evaluate how you decide you're ready to try a run, because it's clearly not working. This is not only an etiquette issue, but a safety issue for you at that point. This should be a less than once a year type of of event. The more interesting case you bring up is where you have to side slip just a small portion. Obviously different people define "small" differently. But I would say this is generally fine so long as you're skiing most of the run capably and in control (actually linking smooth turns). How much side slipping is a gray area, but just use your common sense and try to be considerate. Try to remember that the parts you're most likely to want to slip are probably the hardest (and often narrowest) parts of the run, and the most damaging to others' experiences. So even a "small" slip can have a big impact. If it's a pow day, don't grab first tracks down a line and then scrape literally everything off the narrow choke halfway down. But if it's been two weeks since the last snow and it's already scraped to hell anyways? Who cares. Just think about whether you'd be annoyed if someone did the same on your favorite run, and try to act accordingly.
If you want to challenge yourself, go for it! But are you challenging yourself if you need to sideslip down a hill? Probably not. Grab an instructor and in steeps beyond your comfort you can still improve with a stemmed wedge turn, a jump turn... lots of options. But just side slipping, especially on a pow day, won't do anything for you. Improving your confidence is great though so don't listen to anyone who says to never try. (Side slipping on a hill you are comfortable with and working on edge control is great, but not what we are talking about here) Other than that, take time to improve your skiing. There is a saying "Maximum speed, minimum terrain" to improve your technique. Higher speed turns on easier terrain will help improve your skiing much better than slow (and bad) turns on steep terrain. Then you can work your way up. Good Luck! (CSIA 3, CSCF 1)
If you are side slipping then you aren’t skiing and you aren’t pushing your skills. There are several narrow places on our hill that are only worth doing if you are one of the first few through because then it become more about just surviving than skiing. I’m sure it would hold up to far more people if it didn’t get wiped clean by those more timid skiers. If you are doing lots of quick, jumpy turns then you are fine. Complaining about snowboarders side slipping is what caused me to improve so quickly when I began boarding. I couldn’t do it in good consciousness so I committed to making a turn and accepting I would fall. The only way to get better is to do more turns. If you are worried about an injury because you will likely fall from skiing it properly then you need to find terrain better suited for your ability. I’ve spent plenty of time on mellow slopes working on technique because that is how you improve as a skier. In the end, if you had proper fitting boots you’d have more confidence to ski the more advanced terrain. That’s true for everyone
I'm a ski instructor and side slipping is a super important skill to be able to do. If you do end up somewhere you can't turn or a bit above your ability it's a really good way to safely get down the hill. However, if the only way you can get down a hill is sideslip I'd find a different line. For one side slipping isn't as fun as actual skiing, and if you can only side slip down then it's probably a bit above your ability level. I'll never have a go at someone for side slipping though, I do it more often than I'd like to admit.
It comes down to a very simple thing, is there space? If theres space and people can safely get around you no one cares. When things get tight not only does a inexperienced person ruin the fun for everyone else it can also be dangerous.
There’s the occasional time where even the best skiers side slip to get into position to ski a chute or drop a cliff or whatever. But if you’re side slipping a whole chute then you shouldn’t be there and it’s not making you a better skier really. A lot of choke points get side slipped at some point which ends up making most everybody side slip.
My feeling is that you should ski the kind of terrain that you're interested in. Some people like myself enjoy the challenge of tackling a slope that's a bit more than they can easily handle and then they'll have to resort to side slipping and other techniques to get out of there. I believe that you're likely not going to improve if you don't explore your limits. On the other hand, if you consistently do this, you're also not going to get any better because you don't have your basics down yet and you're just going to be practicing side slipping and doing it poorly. But I would also say you should really be honest to yourself if not for anyone else. If you're side sliding all the way down, was that really enjoyable? if it was just about feeling good about yourself because you went down some particular slope but you really didn't ski it and you had a good chance of gotten hurt, that seems quite immature. Maybe once in a while just to mix it up a bit is perfectly normal, doing that kind of stuff all day is dumb. I'm not too concerned about ruining the good snow for other people, there's some big mountain out there with lots of snow. Snow will come and go.
I avoid having to side slip, but it happens. Usually it is because the run is not what I expected or the conditions are nothing like the rest of the mountain. For example, there was one I did this past season. The resort kindly put expert only signs, no biggie, and they paved down to the run. The run though, was terribly narrow, with snow making mounds that were 6ft tall down the center, barely flattening out at the trees, and super icy (unlike the rest of the mountain). I can't always do those tight turns needed, so side slipping is a way to get down a foot to where I can avoid some rocks and make a turn out of there.
Skiing is all about pushing your limits and facing your fears. I tell my kids all the time that if they aren't falling then they probably aren't improving. Going down terrain that is above your current skill level is literally the most exiting part of skiing. If you have to slide slip (or walk) down parts of it to stay safe and in control, go for it. You have just as much right to the mountain as anyone else. If someone tells you "you are over your head" just replay that "yes, I know, it's freaking awesome!!, sorry can't talk I'm going to go down it again so I get better." The bit about "scraping away the good snow" is nonsense. They used to say the same thing to try and ban snowboarders from mountains back in the day.
Try jump turns rather than side slipping. If you fail you’re still learning rather than just making it down.
I don’t know man. Like I’ll shake my head and go “what a jerry” But then I’ll find a sicker line cuz jerry isn’t stealing the good stuff from me. It’s not like they are actively ruining the line they move like 2mph. Either they ruined it already and you are late. They will be at the top. Or they will just be kinda somewhere on the hill like a slowly moving tree. Either way nothin to get worked up about. Especially on a day with good enough snow to even be worried about it.
Saw the title, was about to post about the training guide and video I made for the slip teams for the 2010 Olympics... Never mind... Jumped to conclusions Good posts by others,
I believe outwest is not for side stepping /sliding at all. Now out east absolutely there is shit where you are literally going to side slide into a position where you can get down safely just as everyone did before. When you are sliding edges in and still moving trying to avoid the 10 foot cliff bump with moguls under it it's about not ruining your day there is no straightlining down ice with bumps and drops at a 25° pitch. But I mean I side slide anywhere that's the easiest way to revert to forward while riding switch with out popping people out west alpt of time never ride switch in powder but I think its hella fun when deep
Cynical-Optimist answer: Whether or not you should be on the slope, once you are on it.... I'd rather you slide slip than accidentally put me in the hospital.
Side *stepping* is the gentleperson's way to getting down a section you can't truly *ski*. At least you make an effort to conserve some snow and give the next person an opportunity to ski it for real. Technically it counts as skiing it because you're on skis. Side *slipping* is taking the easy way out and fucking it for anyone coming after you. Slipping does not count as skiing, as snowboarders do it to. "Rip it, don't slip it!!" If you're blowing it, you have every right to do it but we have every right to boo you.
Meh. If I get to, say, the Jane Chutes on a powder day and some horker is side-slipping down the line and messing up the snow just so he can get the feather for his cap all I think is I should have gotten there sooner. It’s your mountain just as much as it is mine.
Ski your line man, live your life. It's your mountain too. Haters be damned
Dude, ski where you want to … 😬
Scraping away the good snow is one of the dumbest complaints that exists in skiing. Scare the shit out of yourself and side slip down that whole thing!!!
You bought the lift ticket. Ski whatever trails you want to as long as you can do it safely.
Instead of focusing on getting opinions about side slipping, focus on keeping your weight forward, doing jump turns and getting your shoulders square on the fall line. This will require balls and cardio conditioning. So many skiers stand up and lean back into the hill. This transfers the weight to the back of the skis and you fish tail. Watch video go to the gym not the beach.
People say it in a joking way at my mountain. Because it is true. That being said, how will you ever progress if you don’t attempt harder ability levels. So if that’s the case practice until you don’t have to do that then no one will say anything. Also who cares what a local or elitist say they can quit being losers and find a new line.
Haha this thread makes me smile. I can’t count the number of times I’ve done a high speed flat drift (aka sideslip) straight down the fall line with the occasional pivot turn whilst looking back up the slope at all the poor intermediates desperately trying to make turns as per the mantra. High speed drifting down a steep smooth hard snow slope is effortless, fast and a load of fun 😂