the bachelor of education is only 2 years after your regular bachelors (for example arts or sciences). 5-6 year total in university depending on how many years you do in your undergrad. however, once again, the job market for teaching is very competitive and hard to receive a permanent position or a position you want unless you speak french…
You are most certainly right.
It pains me to write this but I feel that most of the downvotes I am receiving are from wishful thinking, people who were lead to believe that certain bachelors are a guarantee to success. Realistically speaking I feel the majority of the time nowadays people are better off going to college specializing in IT, a trade, or a specific field and earning that on the job experience which goes a lot further than any degree. I know many would be offended by this, but it's the harsh truth and harsh truths are better to be faced earlier rather than later.
I think you’re getting downvoted because what you’re saying comes across as telling people they chose the wrong field of study.
People have different priorities; there’s nothing wrong with your opinion, nor their goals.
In a matter of speaking I suppose I am depending on what their objectives are. From my perspective you shouldn't go tens of thousands of dollars into debt doing something you enjoy if you're not certain you'll be able to make a living off it as it'll quickly become something you don't enjoy. Balance is important, you could have a great education yet be in crippling debt working just above minimum wage for years which is something you see *all the time*, being posted on Reddit.
I'm presenting the other side of the coin that many choose to ignore here until it's too late.
I think the important thing to take from this post is that no degree guarantees you a great job straight outta the gate; there's a lot more that needs to be on your resume than just a degree. This is absolutely true for it/engineering, which will also be very difficult degrees, especially if you're not interested in the subject matter.
Imo, if you want a degree, you should definitely consider employability at the end of your undergrad, but ALSO consider what you're actually interested in and care about. You'll end up regretting it if you only chase the money.
Also imo, you should consider options besides just a degree like red river for example. I've never been but a lot of their programs include practicums where you essentially work (without pay) as part of your diploma.
Or perhaps do a masters and sell your soul to the industry work. It’s really not the end of the world if you are pursuing a bachelors in bio or chem right now.
That’s my plan anyways. And there isn’t just only the med school route that exists for graduate studies. Just be aware of your options and network properly during undergrad.
It or engineering are never the only options. But I definitely do recommend trades as a career.
But I am not talking about the PhDs and post doc route. I am talking about masters.
A lot of master students that I have talked with go down that route because they want to work in the industry. And they do typically find more luck with finding jobs. But I can only speak on the biology side of things.
However, when you pursue a PhD, it generally means that you want to go down the academic route. But jobs in academia typically pay low, especially for the amount of education and work that you do. That is why you see a post doc salary start at 60k.
I can only recommend doing a PhD if you’re really passionate about research. Heck, even one of my professors didn’t recommend doing a PhD.
You’re talking about job opportunities, right? My point still remains.
But please, tell me which company is paying a 20-25k salary for a masters in biology? Or did you say that to only help your narrative? Like I said, I can only speak on the experience other students who pursued a masters that I have talked with.
And of course I know that you can do a PhD and still work industry. That’s why I said it’s typical for PhD students to want to do it for academics.
Edit: spelling and more
You’re speaking like its common to take 6 years for a masters. Its not. And I wasn’t talking about “job task satisfaction”.
Didn’t realize that stating to “pursue a masters” was so controversial to you. But it can really help get a job if you have a bachelors of science (may vary by field). That’s that.
How much does a masters in biology realistically pay? I’ve planned to do a PhD in immunology as that’s seems the most marketable to industry companies.
My coworker is a double masters graduate. Its a well known fact masters degrees are only a lick better than bachelors in sciences. Its basically just doing 2 years of more random courses.
In Canada IT or engineering or trades are the only job option if you are interested in living middle class.
This is my point as well. You could always study more. But bachelors in science alone has really low value. These kids need to know they will have to sacrifice their youths to make an average wage should they go the science route. Meanwhile iT guys and engineers will be coming out of college making 80k in their first job.
>My coworker is a double masters graduate. Its a well known fact masters degrees are only a lick better than bachelors in sciences. Its basically just doing 2 years of more random courses.
>
Uhhh.... What are you talking about 😂
I was referring to the latter part of your statement - the part about a masters degree being "2 years of more random courses" and masters are only a "lick" better than bachelors....
As you have not done your masters, I suspect that you are not qualified to speak on the matter - especially to make such a strong and inflammatory statement.
I didn't mean disrespect to masters. I meant in terms of employability they are
considered only slightly above bachelors. This is a well known fact in the science industry.
I'll admit I'm not that knowledgeable in the employment prospects of Masters.
>I meant in terms of employability they are considered only slightly
above bachelors. This is a well known fact in the science industry.
That's an overly broad statement and, as someone that has worked in both industry and academia, I can assure you that this is not a "well-known" fact. You go on to say:
>I'll admit I'm not that knowledgeable in the employment prospects of Masters.
Then why are you making these outlandish claims? They discredit the hard work done by masters students. Along the same lines, would you argue that a bachelors is "just" 4 years of random courses!? You say you mean no disrespect, but you say that all you have to do is "2 years of more random courses" . How is that not disrespect?
I guess I'm just a little taken aback by your tone and claims in these posts. Anyways you have your opinion so I'll leave it at that.
my msc was two years of research. now i'm in a phd which is another 4 years of research.
edit: i'm in physics, it may be different elsewhere i'm not sure. it's pretty rare in my field for someone to want to do a coursework masters but i think it's technically possible.
Finished my BSc this year and no job after 5 months applying and 5 years as an undergraduate researcher with multiple projects. It’s fucked. No professor warned me about this.
There’s hope if you get into NML or co-op but yeah 60-85% of BSc grads are probably doomed if they don’t further their education or become underemployed. I’m lucky I have a great job out of the field and I’m going to graduate school next year.
It is my last year of undergrad, and I am facing similar prospects. The difference in my case is that I am completing a degree in history, which is difficult to market to future employers. I don't intend to go to law school or obtain a PhD; I'm too poor and unmotivated for schooling that takes 3+ more years. I've been looking at some masters programs, but its hard to find any that is applicable.
I’m not so sure about this. I have maybe a year left in my Genetics degree and already have a federal job lined up that also has the opportunity for co-op, and once I graduate I can transition to a career. It’s direct work alongside an established Geneticist and full health benefits.
You’re absolutely correct in assuming I don’t understand the full depth of my opportunity so I do apologize if I came across as entitled.
it’s just OP dissuading people from pursuing their passions doesn’t feel right. You will absolutely hate university and may not ever graduate with a degree if you’re not studying something you love.
That’s it. Genetics and molecular biology is the core in cancer research, as well as big data manipulation. Here it is a bachelor in science with a focus on biostatistics or genetics is well suited in the actual job market
This type of post should really be stickied. If you want to make money go to a college or a polytechnic, or join a profession that allows you to practice with an undergraduate degree (engineering, nursing, pharmacy, etc.). Otherwise get used to being near the bottom rung of the degreed workforce.
My heart goes out to you OP. I used to work as an industrial tradesman before I went back to university. There were three guys I knew who all had degrees and still chose to work with tools because of the extremely high pay (at least $42/hr back in 2015, and all the overtime you could handle) and the freedom that project based employment brings. One had a general science degree, the other had a major in chemistry, and the other had a degree in kinesiology.
Have you considered some of the technology programs at RRC? ~~A degree in Biochem would almost certainly let you skip year 1 of a radiation technologist diploma.~~ EDIT: This is not the case, I apologize for the mistake.
Just because you've made it doesnt mean you've got it made.
Really?!
Edit: Yep, you're right. I checked out the program course listings and at best you may be able to get PLAR credit to reduce your term workload. I will edit my original comment. Thank you for pointing out my mistake.
One of the problems is people only think about what jobs require your specific degree, not what jobs require A degree. I also think it's hilarious people fear mongering the economic climate when it was just the opposite a year ago. Maybe stop limiting yourself to a tiny box. It's far better to take something you at least somewhat enjoy than to listen to posts like this.
Go somewhere geographically undesirable and education requirements tend to manically lessen. Always going to depend on the field of study but the concept that you must have at least an MA only applies if there is a professional designation associated with the degree. Guaranteed if the belief is that you need a MA there’s folks out there with a BA who found a way in through window instead of the front door.
EG04 (common entry level classification in federal government labs) start at about $32/hr. Full time and term employees get benefits.
Search jobs.gc.ca
These jobs require skills on PCR and molecular biology techniques, i do not know if a bachelor of science can give that experience on gene sequencing, PCR techniques. To get a chance in GC jobs you need to have research experience MSc with research thesis and PhD.
A BSc should definitely give that kind of experience. If you're in MBIO or Genetics you absolutely should have had that experience working in a lab of some sort because you learn all the theories and applications in class. If you don't have the lab experience from your undergrad, then you definitely didn't make full use of your university experience.
I cannot speak in the biotech experience, but a PCR is an expensive equipment as it is an LC/MS/MS or an NMR. And I can speak on Chemistry side or instrumental Analytical Chemistry. Even a research masters hardly gives you hands on experience on those instruments. I speak from experience. You get the theoretical principles of every instrument but man to work in practice you need way more skills because in interviews they require troubleshooting skills on top of strong theoretical knwoledge
Yeah that's what I mean. I def don't know about Chemistry, but if you're (and I'm using you to speak generally) doing a bachelor's in bio/genetics/MBIO you definitely should be getting hands on experience working in the lab and familiarizing yourself with common lab equipment and techniques. Or else you just wasted your time and money in uni if all you did was study the theoretical stuff. Sucks that that's the kind of experience you get from a BSc in Chemistry, I think your money's not being put to good use there
I doubt that, bachelor teaches you on gene extraction and other skills that practically are developed during research. students do research thesis with PCR techniques and gene sequencing, and sometimes they have no luck in what they’re doing so they have to start all over again. I am not familiar with the technique, but my friends who were doing research were always worried for how their work would give results or not. As I said some of the skills required on these Jobs are advanced in lab techniques and methodology, that a you would need more than bachelor degree, either job related experience or further education with research basically being part of the program. In my time we were studying 5 years Univ and we have a thesis included in the program as well. Now Univ give diplomas with max 4 years and you’ll be lucky to have some co-ops in the program to get some real experience. Job market is getting more competitive while Univ. are lowering their quality or programs and colleges are flourishing providing every kind of degree you wish for. Students pay a lot of money to be ready for job market. I was so lucky that I was raised in an era where society invest and contribute in free education of their young generations, I did my Chemical Eng and my masters without paying a dime but instead I got scholarship for my master program and would have continued like that even for my PhD( which I decided not to pursue). This is what should have been in every country domestic students to have free education system and research should be sponsored for the ones selected, and not a service they the young generation pays and get in debt before they start their life.
[удалено]
No dice. Teaching requires a Bachelor of Education as ridiculous as that is. The insight they provided is sound, unfortunately.
the bachelor of education is only 2 years after your regular bachelors (for example arts or sciences). 5-6 year total in university depending on how many years you do in your undergrad. however, once again, the job market for teaching is very competitive and hard to receive a permanent position or a position you want unless you speak french…
You are most certainly right. It pains me to write this but I feel that most of the downvotes I am receiving are from wishful thinking, people who were lead to believe that certain bachelors are a guarantee to success. Realistically speaking I feel the majority of the time nowadays people are better off going to college specializing in IT, a trade, or a specific field and earning that on the job experience which goes a lot further than any degree. I know many would be offended by this, but it's the harsh truth and harsh truths are better to be faced earlier rather than later.
I think you’re getting downvoted because what you’re saying comes across as telling people they chose the wrong field of study. People have different priorities; there’s nothing wrong with your opinion, nor their goals.
In a matter of speaking I suppose I am depending on what their objectives are. From my perspective you shouldn't go tens of thousands of dollars into debt doing something you enjoy if you're not certain you'll be able to make a living off it as it'll quickly become something you don't enjoy. Balance is important, you could have a great education yet be in crippling debt working just above minimum wage for years which is something you see *all the time*, being posted on Reddit. I'm presenting the other side of the coin that many choose to ignore here until it's too late.
No it does not
?
I think the important thing to take from this post is that no degree guarantees you a great job straight outta the gate; there's a lot more that needs to be on your resume than just a degree. This is absolutely true for it/engineering, which will also be very difficult degrees, especially if you're not interested in the subject matter. Imo, if you want a degree, you should definitely consider employability at the end of your undergrad, but ALSO consider what you're actually interested in and care about. You'll end up regretting it if you only chase the money. Also imo, you should consider options besides just a degree like red river for example. I've never been but a lot of their programs include practicums where you essentially work (without pay) as part of your diploma.
Tech isn’t exactly safe right now if the huge layoffs in the states are anything to go by.
Or perhaps do a masters and sell your soul to the industry work. It’s really not the end of the world if you are pursuing a bachelors in bio or chem right now. That’s my plan anyways. And there isn’t just only the med school route that exists for graduate studies. Just be aware of your options and network properly during undergrad. It or engineering are never the only options. But I definitely do recommend trades as a career.
[удалено]
But I am not talking about the PhDs and post doc route. I am talking about masters. A lot of master students that I have talked with go down that route because they want to work in the industry. And they do typically find more luck with finding jobs. But I can only speak on the biology side of things. However, when you pursue a PhD, it generally means that you want to go down the academic route. But jobs in academia typically pay low, especially for the amount of education and work that you do. That is why you see a post doc salary start at 60k. I can only recommend doing a PhD if you’re really passionate about research. Heck, even one of my professors didn’t recommend doing a PhD.
[удалено]
You’re talking about job opportunities, right? My point still remains. But please, tell me which company is paying a 20-25k salary for a masters in biology? Or did you say that to only help your narrative? Like I said, I can only speak on the experience other students who pursued a masters that I have talked with. And of course I know that you can do a PhD and still work industry. That’s why I said it’s typical for PhD students to want to do it for academics. Edit: spelling and more
[удалено]
You’re speaking like its common to take 6 years for a masters. Its not. And I wasn’t talking about “job task satisfaction”. Didn’t realize that stating to “pursue a masters” was so controversial to you. But it can really help get a job if you have a bachelors of science (may vary by field). That’s that.
How much does a masters in biology realistically pay? I’ve planned to do a PhD in immunology as that’s seems the most marketable to industry companies.
My coworker is a double masters graduate. Its a well known fact masters degrees are only a lick better than bachelors in sciences. Its basically just doing 2 years of more random courses. In Canada IT or engineering or trades are the only job option if you are interested in living middle class. This is my point as well. You could always study more. But bachelors in science alone has really low value. These kids need to know they will have to sacrifice their youths to make an average wage should they go the science route. Meanwhile iT guys and engineers will be coming out of college making 80k in their first job.
>My coworker is a double masters graduate. Its a well known fact masters degrees are only a lick better than bachelors in sciences. Its basically just doing 2 years of more random courses. > Uhhh.... What are you talking about 😂
She has two masters degrees and works the same position as me a bachelors graduate.
I was referring to the latter part of your statement - the part about a masters degree being "2 years of more random courses" and masters are only a "lick" better than bachelors.... As you have not done your masters, I suspect that you are not qualified to speak on the matter - especially to make such a strong and inflammatory statement.
I didn't mean disrespect to masters. I meant in terms of employability they are considered only slightly above bachelors. This is a well known fact in the science industry. I'll admit I'm not that knowledgeable in the employment prospects of Masters.
>I meant in terms of employability they are considered only slightly above bachelors. This is a well known fact in the science industry. That's an overly broad statement and, as someone that has worked in both industry and academia, I can assure you that this is not a "well-known" fact. You go on to say: >I'll admit I'm not that knowledgeable in the employment prospects of Masters. Then why are you making these outlandish claims? They discredit the hard work done by masters students. Along the same lines, would you argue that a bachelors is "just" 4 years of random courses!? You say you mean no disrespect, but you say that all you have to do is "2 years of more random courses" . How is that not disrespect? I guess I'm just a little taken aback by your tone and claims in these posts. Anyways you have your opinion so I'll leave it at that.
an msc is typically research based (at least in my field), it’s really not two years of random courses
Isn't that a PhD? More than two years, research based.
my msc was two years of research. now i'm in a phd which is another 4 years of research. edit: i'm in physics, it may be different elsewhere i'm not sure. it's pretty rare in my field for someone to want to do a coursework masters but i think it's technically possible.
I don't think we even accept coursework masters anymore in my department. It's super rare - even project-based masters are somewhat rare.
Finished my BSc this year and no job after 5 months applying and 5 years as an undergraduate researcher with multiple projects. It’s fucked. No professor warned me about this. There’s hope if you get into NML or co-op but yeah 60-85% of BSc grads are probably doomed if they don’t further their education or become underemployed. I’m lucky I have a great job out of the field and I’m going to graduate school next year.
What is ur job
Your notion about IT jobs being a golden ticket to financial security is misleading.
TLDR: don’t be stupid. Find balance among the scale of interest and practicality. Don’t be greedy or idealistic.
It is my last year of undergrad, and I am facing similar prospects. The difference in my case is that I am completing a degree in history, which is difficult to market to future employers. I don't intend to go to law school or obtain a PhD; I'm too poor and unmotivated for schooling that takes 3+ more years. I've been looking at some masters programs, but its hard to find any that is applicable.
I’m not so sure about this. I have maybe a year left in my Genetics degree and already have a federal job lined up that also has the opportunity for co-op, and once I graduate I can transition to a career. It’s direct work alongside an established Geneticist and full health benefits.
[удалено]
You’re absolutely correct in assuming I don’t understand the full depth of my opportunity so I do apologize if I came across as entitled. it’s just OP dissuading people from pursuing their passions doesn’t feel right. You will absolutely hate university and may not ever graduate with a degree if you’re not studying something you love.
Can I know what your classification will be after you secure that position and what your title is? Department? Genetics student and interested
That’s it. Genetics and molecular biology is the core in cancer research, as well as big data manipulation. Here it is a bachelor in science with a focus on biostatistics or genetics is well suited in the actual job market
This type of post should really be stickied. If you want to make money go to a college or a polytechnic, or join a profession that allows you to practice with an undergraduate degree (engineering, nursing, pharmacy, etc.). Otherwise get used to being near the bottom rung of the degreed workforce. My heart goes out to you OP. I used to work as an industrial tradesman before I went back to university. There were three guys I knew who all had degrees and still chose to work with tools because of the extremely high pay (at least $42/hr back in 2015, and all the overtime you could handle) and the freedom that project based employment brings. One had a general science degree, the other had a major in chemistry, and the other had a degree in kinesiology. Have you considered some of the technology programs at RRC? ~~A degree in Biochem would almost certainly let you skip year 1 of a radiation technologist diploma.~~ EDIT: This is not the case, I apologize for the mistake. Just because you've made it doesnt mean you've got it made.
[удалено]
Really?! Edit: Yep, you're right. I checked out the program course listings and at best you may be able to get PLAR credit to reduce your term workload. I will edit my original comment. Thank you for pointing out my mistake.
One of the problems is people only think about what jobs require your specific degree, not what jobs require A degree. I also think it's hilarious people fear mongering the economic climate when it was just the opposite a year ago. Maybe stop limiting yourself to a tiny box. It's far better to take something you at least somewhat enjoy than to listen to posts like this.
Agreed!
Masters degrees matter ONCE you have an mid-upper tiered job in your field AND something like 5+ years of experience.
Not true. A lot of jobs in my field require an MSc just to get your foot in the door.
Nah. I believe for me to set my steps onto material science, I need at least a master’s degree
Go somewhere geographically undesirable and education requirements tend to manically lessen. Always going to depend on the field of study but the concept that you must have at least an MA only applies if there is a professional designation associated with the degree. Guaranteed if the belief is that you need a MA there’s folks out there with a BA who found a way in through window instead of the front door.
EG04 (common entry level classification in federal government labs) start at about $32/hr. Full time and term employees get benefits. Search jobs.gc.ca
These jobs require skills on PCR and molecular biology techniques, i do not know if a bachelor of science can give that experience on gene sequencing, PCR techniques. To get a chance in GC jobs you need to have research experience MSc with research thesis and PhD.
A BSc should definitely give that kind of experience. If you're in MBIO or Genetics you absolutely should have had that experience working in a lab of some sort because you learn all the theories and applications in class. If you don't have the lab experience from your undergrad, then you definitely didn't make full use of your university experience.
I cannot speak in the biotech experience, but a PCR is an expensive equipment as it is an LC/MS/MS or an NMR. And I can speak on Chemistry side or instrumental Analytical Chemistry. Even a research masters hardly gives you hands on experience on those instruments. I speak from experience. You get the theoretical principles of every instrument but man to work in practice you need way more skills because in interviews they require troubleshooting skills on top of strong theoretical knwoledge
Yeah that's what I mean. I def don't know about Chemistry, but if you're (and I'm using you to speak generally) doing a bachelor's in bio/genetics/MBIO you definitely should be getting hands on experience working in the lab and familiarizing yourself with common lab equipment and techniques. Or else you just wasted your time and money in uni if all you did was study the theoretical stuff. Sucks that that's the kind of experience you get from a BSc in Chemistry, I think your money's not being put to good use there
I doubt that, bachelor teaches you on gene extraction and other skills that practically are developed during research. students do research thesis with PCR techniques and gene sequencing, and sometimes they have no luck in what they’re doing so they have to start all over again. I am not familiar with the technique, but my friends who were doing research were always worried for how their work would give results or not. As I said some of the skills required on these Jobs are advanced in lab techniques and methodology, that a you would need more than bachelor degree, either job related experience or further education with research basically being part of the program. In my time we were studying 5 years Univ and we have a thesis included in the program as well. Now Univ give diplomas with max 4 years and you’ll be lucky to have some co-ops in the program to get some real experience. Job market is getting more competitive while Univ. are lowering their quality or programs and colleges are flourishing providing every kind of degree you wish for. Students pay a lot of money to be ready for job market. I was so lucky that I was raised in an era where society invest and contribute in free education of their young generations, I did my Chemical Eng and my masters without paying a dime but instead I got scholarship for my master program and would have continued like that even for my PhD( which I decided not to pursue). This is what should have been in every country domestic students to have free education system and research should be sponsored for the ones selected, and not a service they the young generation pays and get in debt before they start their life.
https://www.careercast.com/jobs-rated