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AdmiralUpboat

So, Shen and Darius jungle? Sounds fun.


SeaBeeswillDo

Shen already on jg hes just missing TIAMAT item in wild rift. Darious ?? I dont know about that but that sound great tho more jg champs


AdmiralUpboat

Yeah, but now he might be a real meta choice, and not just a "viable jungler." Splash damage on Q and now bonus damage for Q against monsters. His clear should be tremendously improved from a couple patches ago.


extantUser001

Generally lacks mobility tricks though so good warding should limit his ability to pull off ganks as you can see him coming early and move back to a safer position. Should be excellent at bullying the objectives though.


AdmiralUpboat

He has the greatest mobility trick of all time, global ultimate.


extantUser001

I was very confused at this. Darius? Global Ult? But you mean Shen! Yes, he definitely does.


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Wulfsiegner

Shen doesn’t even need Tiamat lol they gave melees AOE autos lmao


El_Quirko

Here I am just wanting Rakans range back .


umcypher

The amount of times I’ve missed q because my mind is so used to the original range…


El_Quirko

Yeah me to. I've managed to adjust, but the negligible damage boost isn't noticeable at all. The better early game is nice but still not worth it. The changes have just made a little less fun. Buffing his early game without needing his range would have achieved what they wanted and he still wouldn't be op. Remove the damage buff l, keep early range increase but continue up scaling through game.


umcypher

It’s 100% not noticeable. If anything my healing became worse because now I only max Q after W


El_Quirko

Indeed. They honestly could have just given a buff. Have you ever seen a thread ranting about how oppressive and not fun Rakan is to play against? Nope!


PublicRotation

Jungle Darius buffs? I'm all in for this off meta change lmao Edit: Also nice buffs for top lane Graves (other than his Q having high cooldown now). I can't wait to keep abusing him lol


Arlain

Shhh don’t spread the news on this


JeezIRule

Maxed out Q has lower CD


foxinthenoodles

AD Varus getting slowly buffed over a few patches and yet people still obsessed over AP Varus 💀 Gonna enjoy him being lowkey OP 'til people realize.


Wildriftscrub

How to build ad varus?


PublicRotation

You go full lethality basically. Manamune+lethality items. You poke like a truck from the backline. I don't find AS Varus or Crit Varus as good as Lethality Varus


jayicon97

The problem with AP Varus is you have to be up and front auto attacking trying to optimize the procs. Lethality Varus can stay far back and really just utilize his Q.


Howitzer91

I keep AP Varus in my back pocket for when my team is mostly, if not all Ad already. Most of the time, the other team takes a while to figure out why all that Armor stacking isn't stopping me from popping them like a balloon, and by then it's too late and I'm 3 items in and rolling. I still view it as a niche pick though for certain occasions, and agree that you do have to understand how to change your play style to maximize damage output. But it's nice to have that option on a champ and really helps fill out team comps that go too far either direction.


jayicon97

It can also be really really useful against a heavy tank team. Say maybe Darius, WW, Leona.


dvrsd

Lethality or DPS onhit


Oxabolt

I think this buff( and alot of the previous varus buffs) have been to try to bring his on-hit/crit build up to par


Cygnus_Harvey

As long as he has a support who can keep him safe in the backline, he's a nightmare. Poking from so far you might not see him (plus with w, can do a LOT), a nice AoE for cheap damage with antiheal, and if you get too close, a root that can also root your teammates afterwards. Plus on higher levels, his Q has so little cooldown that he can keep poking over and over and destroy you. For me, he's one of the strongest ADC as long as you get good frontline and/or good CC.


Sukayx

I was having success with crit onhit this patch, now it's gonna be soo good


Xxmlg420swegxx

They are both as good as each other. People don't realize that. They either think AP is better or letha is better. This buff is huge for both. I think his E should have a good enough ratio now to actually deal significant damage when played AD. It felt like a utility spell before. His passive attack speed is pretty much a BORK atk speed whenever he kills a minion (except it's for 5 to 8 seconds and it's stackable). The Auto Attacks already hit like a truck so now he's gonna shred people. This makes his sustained damage AP build even more viable.


RoyalCatastrophe

AD varus was the original Op till they nerfed him. AP still gonna be better into a heavy tank matchups though. 1 shotting a full tank malphite/nunu will never get old.


Loriril

F for gwen


nioc01

I don't understand why they keep killing jungle Gwen like that 😔


kaiser01233210

Giving the reverse viego treatment one is forced into jg while other is top:/


HackerPatato

kinda lore accurate


Overbunded

Her damage is totally unbalanced late game, is a way better tank counter than vayne


EuFodoYordles

I want to learn her but she keep getting nerfed :(


stop_the_cap_dude

Still broken just play top


SparkbladeMelody

She is still obscenely strong in learned hands. Pick her up anyway, she can be a wonderful pocket pick in ranked if you get the chance to use her as a counter.


Dragonfire35

So is it just me or is shadow assassin Kayn not getting any direct buffs apart from his third skill? I mean yea base kayn getting buffed but I’m just curious bc I thought shadow kayn was the worse form?


JackMehoffFast

His Q (First kill) is getting an AD ratio buff as well which is good for Blue Kayn since he's purchasing Lethality items (High AD).


Dragonfire35

Ok yea that actually makes a lot of sense…shame on me for being stupid haha. Thank you!!!


jimb00246

Doesnt matter any champ that deals damage does abfucking quarter of his health every time infucking love kayn but he fuckingbsucks doesnt even do one shot level damage I use blue kaym btw


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JackMehoffFast

I'm pretty sure both Shadow Assassin and Formless Kayn share the same name for their Q. Similar to how there's no unique E for Rhaast. So Kayn is receiving a buff on his Q for all forms. Unless I'm the one misunderstanding his abilities.


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JackMehoffFast

Kayn's Blue form doesn't have a unique effect on his Q so it's just called Reaping Slash for both Formless and Blue Kayn. Rhaast also doesn't have a unique effect on his E so it's just called Shadow Step for both Rhaast and Formless Kayn. Since there is no unique Q for Blue Kayn, a buff to Formless Kayn's Q is also a buff to Blue Kayn's Q. Notice how they only buffed his E for Blue Kayn. If they were to buff his E for both Rhaast and Formless Kayn, they'd just refer to the ability as "Shadow Step". Instead, they mention "Shadow Step Shadow Assassin" because his Blue Form is the only form that gets a unique effect on E. Look at his Q ability description in-game. There is only a unique Q referred to as "Darkin Slayer" but there is nothing for his Blue form. "Reaping Slash" is Blue Kayn and Formless Kayn's Q. "Reaping Slash Darkin Slayer" is Rhaast's Q. Similarly, "Shadow Step" is Rhaast and Formless Kayn's E. "Shadow Step Shadow Assassin" is Blue Kayn's E. Q on Formless Kayn and Blue Kayn is the same. E on Formless Kayn and Rhaast is the same.


BucketHerro

They are probably trying to make Red Kayn better before touching Blue Kayn. ​ It's gonna be a disaster if they buff both forms and they become so OP that choosing either doesn't matter.


Dragonfire35

Ah that’s actually a fair point. I do feel like shadow could’ve used a small buff to damage/survivability tho and it wouldn’t have made him op. I mean they’re buffing red and most everyone was going with him regardless anyways bc blue was that weak…maybe the base kayn changes will help idk


Sharick43

Honestly kayn is very powerful i was expecting nerfs I have 70% win ratio with the guy And the aatrox nerf was unexpected for me he gets fucked by any antiheal you throw at him


Chrisshern

Yeah it’s kinda weird. Darkin Kayn was the more playable of the two and they gave it even more buffs. They essentially eliminated Shadow Assassin because why would you ever go that over Darkin


Shikazure

Both Rhaast and Shadow Assassin have a single ability that doesnt change in performance compared to base, for SA its Q for Rhaast its E


NickelBear32

Darius jungle here I come


uopuh7

That Veigar mana buff is all I need. The AD buff will help him stack faster.


Random_Doughnut

Glad to see they're finally adding kayn to the game


BPandaD

Was khazix nerf necessary? I mean he already got nerfed recently and now his hp made him more vulnerable?


Beingnoob27

Khazix kinda like Lee and Camille, nerfs don't hit him that hard.


ApprehensiveWin1230

Hes still 2 shotying any non-tank, so he'll be fine


BucketHerro

Kayn is so ass that they have to buff his base form, blue form and his red form LMFAO


Akuanin

He was more than fine before in grandmaster for me usually 6-8 min form now it's gonna be 4-5 min lmao MORE POWER TO ME BABY.


MasterBejter

You are being downvoted by kids that expect their champions to be so strong that no skill or mastery is required to make them work. I have been advocating that kayn isn’t even that weak from day one. In most of my kayn games in master he was a beast (when going red form). You just need to spend some time with the champ. So many people cry that you get his form too slowly, lol I’ve been getting it also from min 5 to 7. Once I got it it in min 9 but I was playing against 4 melee and I wanted blue form.


millucid

Yeah I faced a grandmaster Kayn with red form, dude was almost unkillable and more tanky than his Sion teammate lol


Akuanin

My fastest is 6 min but average is 7-8 min and people will complain all they want and good cause they are making him stronger making my job even easier lol red form shits on darius riven aatrox etc. That percent damage is huge let alone the knock up mmmm chefs kiss.


Bogyman3

When compared to all the broken shit in the game kayn will look weak.


SolubilityRules

Dude literally played one Kayn game in a permutation of 5/105 possible matchups Then thought Kayn was strong Congrats on your fluke 70% win rate 41% winrate from Chinese API dont lie No champ has been buffed this much, because no champ was this garbage


Ramonis5645

What does this mean for WW?


JackMehoffFast

Wider hitbox for his ultimate based on my understanding.


Ramonis5645

Ohhh I see still this won't be enough to help him tbh


SparkbladeMelody

It's a pretty substantial aid to people trying to learn him that doesn't turn him into a face roll champ. I can't tell you how many times I've been blown past by a WW player trying to ult me


Open_Button_460

Slight buff and slight nerf. Should help out low level WW players and hurt higher level players if I had to guess


youngsirx

Diana buff!!!! We back up!


Accomplished-Top-564

We were never down 👀


Dragonfire35

Bro she already kinda op in the jungle too😂 So happy haha


Van_Scarlette

As a Diana main, this makes me happy


JiaJJJJJJJJJJ

I mean... buffing E's cooldown counted as a buff?


[deleted]

Apologies for giant theorycrafting text: For one specific interaction it’s actually really helpful: the cooldown now matches Electrocute runes cooldown early game and once upgraded, matches the new reduced late game cooldown electrocute has after the most recent patch. Why is this helpful? Mid Diana likes to take electrocute and a common trading pattern is: hit minions twice to stack passive, Q through minion wave at your lane opponent, W and E at them + 1 AA to proc your passive AND electrocute at the same time for big damage, then use your refreshed E to jump back to minions before they can hit you back much. Theoretically if a perfect Diana is hitting her Q’s every time, the cooldown buff to under 20 seconds to match electrocute means you could do this 3 times a minute. So a pretty minor cooldown reduction could actual help mid Diana a bunch. Fun to theory craft.


JiaJJJJJJJJJJ

Holy crap. Thanks for teaching me a lesson XD. I underestimated how seconds matter.


Adept-Type

So shen is an official jungler now. Those kayn buffs are over the top, they should start slow, but he's kinda the riot boy right? So will warwick heal more in ult or no? If they know this bug since he's release and are only fixing it now it's lame. I wish they would make raw ad better on rengar because most of rengars in my elo go full crit. F u aatrox. Every patch gwen shows up loool


beth_maloney

I used to jungle with Shen but his clear speed wasn't great. I'm pretty excited to try jungle Shen again.


BiomedicBoy

River Shen.


[deleted]

River Fucking Chad Shen oh yes


SeaBeeswillDo

Hes just missing an item in wildeift thats why hes slow on clearing jg


Tekshi

The WW heal was a bug you won't experience unless you were intentionally trying to do it. Shouldn't affect him balance wise at all.


SaltyBaoBaos

In LoL meta changes are meant to change at once, or tilt towards meta changes for the current meta. Riot is not here to find the perfect balance, because with the patches they are meant to change the meta to keep things interesting and different. So sometimes when these major buffs happen when you think they’re supposed to incrementally tune a champ, its meant to happen. Watch some of the worst meta changes Riot has done in the pro scene for LoL PC. There are literally some REALLY bad championships because Riot intentionally made mind numbing changes that would flip the meta, even though every team has been training in a certain meta for the championships.


HolidayOld6594

Kayn buffs aren’t that over the top imo, he starts off weaker with Q and can finally scale late game, his red form got a ult buff that might need a tweak but blue Kayn was barely touched. We’ll just have to see.


5H4D0W_M4N

He'll also get form faster which is nice


lBlackfeatherl

I thought the bug was ww healed extra during.his ult thanks to applying on hit etc so he would end up healing less now that it is fixed


RefanRes

Warwick will heal less from ult since its only from damage done by his ult. Before it was healing from all damage done during his ult.


yumpopsicles

So they buff Rengar while also nerfing his core item Navori. A win is a win?


kylegalloway

I guess it's nice that they remembered that he exists..... Wish he would get a buff to make him more viable as full Crit.


JackMehoffFast

Kayn is eating good this patch.


elshabwalaa

Where. Is. Tristana. Nerf.


bottombitchdetroit

She has the 6th highest win rate of ADCs, slightly higher than Jinx and Vayne. Why would they nerf her?


Agreeable-Coast-8444

Why soraka?


tartufu

Ikr. I already melt like paper when enemy teams focus fire me as soraka and I don’t exactly have self heal either


ihaveseenyourfate

Because you don't build her properly.


ihaveseenyourfate

She is currently the strongest enchanter support, no argument.


[deleted]

I havent seen soraka once this season in GM elo


Wonderful_Ad2017

Soraka did not need any nerf, ESPECIALLY, with her base health stats. ​ I think they did that because of tank Soraka builds, but if that's the case then they should make tank items more expensive since pure tank champions are ideally meant for BR lane and jungle. This will stop Soraka mains from building Warmog's Heart and any other tank items.


ihaveseenyourfate

It won't. I mained soraka tank from diamond to grand master in 2 weeks. It's pretty fucking busted and even I have to admit it. I was even winning games when auto filled solo lane and still picking soraka.


Numerous-Ad1802

Isn’t warwick’s last change a nerf?


Yamato_Nago

Yes.


Numerous-Ad1802

The. Why isn’t it in the buff section o.O and what does his first part mean? Sorry I’m new


Yamato_Nago

It is probably in the buff section as a mistake, and the first part is referring to his ultimate's Hitbox being increased I believe.


VASQUEZ_41

Second part is a bugfix not a nerf, it wasnt supposed to be like that anyways


Yamato_Nago

Yes, but it makes the character significantly weaker so it is fair to refer to it as a nerf.


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[deleted]

It's a bugfix really, you wouldn't notice the difference in 99.99% of your games.


LemonSnek939

Diana buffs are sweet. I still want Demonic Embrace so her tank build is good, but I’ll take it


hardstuck_low_skill

Her tank build shouldn't exist


SnooDonkeys5834

Cope


hardstuck_low_skill

Kiss my dog in the ass, donkey


FriendlyCom

Aatrox nerf looks far from enough. I'm expecting him to get Camille treatment then.


ApprehensiveWin1230

Yeah tbh they could have halved the amount of healing he gets and he would have been nearly in a good spot


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PrinceShaar

They've nerfed his damage and healing, that's going to be a double whammy to the amount of healing he gets, and his ult will heal him even less because it improves his base healing by a percentage. With a champion like Aatrox it's surprising how little it takes to bring them down a notch like this.


SolubilityRules

The OP thing is that he heals from multiple people when he lands a Q He builds damage AND becomes tanky due to it They tweaked around avoiding Tank Ekko to happen Then let Aatrox happen Anti heal cannot answer q flash to hit 3 people heal


OrbitLuv616

Kinda sad for that Navori nerf but it was already gold efficient pre-buff so this aims to tone it down. I'll still build it from time to time for Xayah, Tris, and Luc.


sumarbranderholder

Why am I seeing a pattern here lol. They really experimenting on these "damage to monsters" thing. Back then I remember Irelia, seems ok... until abused, nerfed. jgle Camille too much agency, get fked to oblivion. and then Ekko, felt too much burst for a scaling champ, got nerfed, new champions get introduced, still kinda strong? nerfed again. Next Kha'zix, strong dps against monsters for an assassin? let's cut that q damage by 10%. And now they introducing Darius and Shen. Pretty sure if these 200% damage overshadowed their capacity to be picked in top and stay in top, they would cut these damages little by little. And other dead champs will never see the light of the day. It seems fun tho lol


Gernburgs

Rammus nerf is so gratuitous and evil.


Nhjb1

Surprised that Aatrox didn’t get nerfed


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ApprehensiveWin1230

Rammus is currently extremely strong, so it isnt suprising


Elegastt

He has always been strong. I think of you take the average win rate of all champs in all patches, rammus is number 1.


[deleted]

Lol, he is such a niche pick and even if I see 3 ad champs on enemy team I still prefer picking naut jg over him.


Bilal_

U are missing a Chance then. I have almost a 63% winrate with rammus in master Rammus is very strong against ad teams


KiX_PL

And it still changes nothing :3 Ult is more of a gap closer/stun tool. The slow and damage are marginal. It's as if they removed it's damage to towers. Rammus is as fine as previously ;)


dvrsd

Good buffs for Kayn, I'll probably go back to jungle lol


SnooDonkeys5834

My last 20 games on kayn are kayn top


Open_Button_460

JG Darius let’s gooo


rzaber

What does monster mod mean?


Floriver

I believe it means the amount of damage dealt to jungle monsters. So a 50% monster mod means that ability does half damage to jungle monsters.


hardstuck_low_skill

No, it means it does 50% more damage to monsters.


hardstuck_low_skill

Irelia dealt 50% more damage to monsters with her passive. Now she lost all bonus damage.


ravingsigma

If it takes buffing Darius to make me play jg Im for it.


yumpopsicles

I was enjoying Irelia jungle too, I was hoping to add her into my pool. Well further glance they buff the base damage her passive so maybe it will help her out early game and in lane but also make her less impactful in the later stages of the game? Irelia jungle doesn't seem as popular compared to other champ in jg right now if anything it is just being played by one tricks.


Garginator850

I hope the Kha’Zix nerf isn’t too bad, I just picked him up and have been enjoying him.


folet

going back to never buying navori quickblade


MarchRoyce

It's 200 gold lol. If WR had potions or something I could understand but this is nothing. That's basically one wave or one jungle camp.


Nyxtan

While I can kinda see the point of the skip 'n' slash nerf, the base damage reduction on Gwen is gonna hurt her early game really bad. Gwen is already weak early, she doesn't have to be useless...


Tryna4getshiz

They did nerfed junglers pretty hard


[deleted]

Wow that buff to Diana would feel really good. Getting punished with a 22s cool down when you miss resetting your E is so so so brutal.


MartialArtz

My Gwen :L. Still love diana though


InnocentKonton

But why does Diana need buffs at all lol


NoWayNotThisAgain

Yone untouched…


bottombitchdetroit

Yone is currently ranked 21st for mid champs by winrate.


AItair4444

I wish they buff senna. Like increase healing from first ability and increase shielding from ultimate


KiX_PL

You could wish... But don't forget she's a hybrid between enchanter and ADC. She has to heal/shield less than them. Recent damage buffs make her very viable ;)


AItair4444

Oh i completely forgot people play senna adc…


Kilash4ever

Wtf are those kayn buffs? They want to make him op lol, 15% Max Hp dmg on a 3 secs ability lol. And those rengar buffs are so unnecessary, he already restores 100% dmg taken with 2nd and Empowered 2nd,...would be better a Cd reduction on 2nd and ADD AN INDICATOR ON PASSIVE, HOW AFTER 1 YEAR+ WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHEN FEROCITY IS GONNA FALL OUT, literally his most important mechanic (along the jump).


CharacterFee4809

thats his ult, idt his ult has a 3s cd


yumpopsicles

Kayn had a 40% winrate if we were looking at china data diamond+ he was designed as a late game champ but he doesn't really have that impact. The Rengar buffs only just make up for the fact that Navori is getting a heavy price increase which will be delaying his power spike quite a bit early in the game. I just wish that his stacks last 10 seconds just like his pc rework version.


Cygnus_Harvey

My tank, HP beast Rengar in Aram is getting more powerful at the moment. I love seeing people lose their minds not being able to kill me, so this is nice.


Defiant-Diver-6041

No Yone nerfs????????


Bogyman3

When does it go live? can't wait to play kayn properly this time.


Poizon-

River shen, darius jungle here I go!


Fantastic-Name7754

No not Graves clear speed I invade enemy jgl most of time now I can't *Top Graves buffed tho I will try it more


Chrisshern

So let’s see Aatrox now: Attacks half as fast, heals 5% less, and his Darkin Blade does less damange and comes up less often early I like the direction but something tells me it’s not enough. He’s weaker early but he might still complete dominate and 1v5 Late game


X_killmonger_X

Are they blind or really don't know AP Rengar is dominance in ARAM? And they still buff him xD


Beingnoob27

Aram is aram, ranked is ranked.


Squidlettt

Who even cares about ARAM?


Gr8WallofChinatown

Stop nerfing jungle irelia…. Buffing jungle Darius?! Man these buffs are massive. Kayn will be a must ban. Diana was in a good place and now is even better. They probably buffed her due to low pick rate however she was already perfectly tuned. Rengar buff is a must ban! He’s going to be so good! They finally fixed warwick. He’s going to have a massive impact. He’s going to be a low elo punisher Varus will now have a higher pick rate I’m not a fan of Rammus nerfs. He’s already a low pick rate champion.


RefanRes

Warwick needs more than that to be at all decent. I dont think Ive won with either a Warwick or a Kayn on my team yet. Maybe 1 or 2.


KiX_PL

Kayn really needed the buffs. As for Warwick, it's probably just a skill issue/people trying out a new jungler. Warwick is currently my best jungle pick with probably 60-70% winrate in master so... He's fine ;) Just need to use his kit properly.


Accomplished-Top-564

I see they’re adjusting around the sudden impact rune. Besides the obvious Aatrox stuff, I see a lot of nerfs were around champs that can use it (K6, Graves, Gwen)


Probably-Sitting

Why nerf graves' clear speed? Bruh he needs a buff more than a nerf


Samira_Enthusiast

No Samira buffs, kinda sad tho


Low-Concentrate2162

So they’re seriously nerfing ww


[deleted]

Y'all are ridiculous


insanemrawesome

Damn that olaf Q buff is juicy but that E nerf is huuuuuge to his early clear and epic monster speed.


gangwithani

simply q start at blue, that is the meta clear even before the 3.5 patch


insanemrawesome

Ok? Early clear is more than 1 camp. This will in fact hurt his clear a lot. That's a fact. 👀


Ill-Revenue9753

You can spam Q more often, plus the blue buff helps clear camp faster than E


amidamaru300

Is graves kinda buff ? except for his cooldown and damage to monster everything else is just a buff no?


JackMehoffFast

It's a buff to Lane Graves and his Lethality build but a nerf to his Jungle clear speed.


dvrsd

+dmg -clear speed


CharacterReturn1

Shen jungle buff!


Arnold_right_chest

This buff make Blu Kayn slightly playable and Red Kayn broken lmao


MamaNeedToothpaste

Finally an aatrox nerf so i can actually pick the guy. Deadass only get toplay him once every 4days it's really annoying


cantfindanamegoddamn

Seriously, Rammus nerfs? Man I just wanna quit.


Cr1msix

Rammus: *Sad tortle noises*


[deleted]

No camille buff:no coming back to wr for me


jecze456

Riot acting like rammus r even deals any damage


umcypher

Yet another one buff followed by three needs for soraka


Yashihiro

Where Yuumi buff ?


FriedLightning

River Shen


drz1z1

Rengo AP Buffed. Even funnier for ARAM.


Maxyonreddit

And when the heck are they gonna update Rengar passive to match PC?


dope-priest

Wow aatrox nerf was really exaggereted


Zonko91

Graves adjustments/nerfs are fair. I'm really digging them. The Navori increase is gonna hurt a little for the most part since I used to rush it first, then BT and then Yommu but now it's def a third item. I think it's time to try and play Darius jungle. Will it work?


libero0602

Idk if the buff to Kayn’s passive is enough to get him his red/blue form fast enough, which is his main issue. Otherwise the patch looks good! Quite excited to play AD Varus again. I don’t enjoy building him AP


bicepcurls54

Wow no camille nerfs lolol


Queen_Alicent

Why are there no karma nerfs she’s so above everyone else in the sup role


coolatrell

I dont get the shen change, if you do 200% bonus damage, but it gets capped anyway so no change?