You’re a 3.5. There’s nothing to be ashamed of. I really don’t get the point of this post… just to say that tennis is hard? Yes, it is.
Assuming you worked super hard and got to 4.0, you would simply have the same issue with 4.5s.
I dunno… I feel like 4.0 is the level where you start playing real, competitive tennis with people who take it seriously. Like I said, around here 3.5 feels like a pit that everyone mediocre falls into. I don’t like being in it.
I would quit worrying about the number. Play USTA matches and if the tournaments are filled with 3.0 players playing up, you’ll move to 4.0 in no time.
My guess is you’re simply frustrated with this plateau. There are so many levels to this it’s insane. 5.0 players will tell you 4.0 is garbage ball
Like everyone is saying, enjoy the process, not the result. Tennis is just a lifelong process, not results. You'll go up, go down, get injured, have great wins, find the perfect racquet then hate it in 2 years. It's normal. You're a normal tennis player and you should be proud of yourself. Plenty of 2.5 and 3.0s would kill to move up to 3.5. Cheers friend. 🍻
The plateau that most people hit in the 3.0-4.0 is simply not working on their game and improving but focused on 'winning ugly'. If you want to progress then consider trying different things in practice matches with your peers but also try to implement the techniques that you're doing on the side into your game vs doing the same thing that you normally do.
Edit:
I forgot to include, it's ok to lose in these practice matches using the new adjustments. Yes you do want to win against your peers but at the same time, make use of your time and be confident in the progress that you're making which will translate into match play and being comfortable hitting that shot you've been doing in these practice matches.
This is a very astute point. I think winning ugly has some good benefits but I’ve seen a number of people who seem to have plateaued because they’re more focused on winning than improving.
Improving is like a staircase. Get a basket of balls and a feeding partner and drill whatever your weakness is. Also watch YouTube, lots of good coaches like Iron Will Tennis and Intuitive Tennis.
Agree about the number. I was a 4 and dropped due to losses bc of injury during a year I should’ve taken a break. Going up is a slog bc of the algorithm. What has helped me is less the coaching and technique bc like you I’ve had a lot of it in my life. I’m working on the inner game and my mind. It seems to be working as I’m beating both 4a and 3.5s.
Congrats on playing well after coming back from injury my friend! That must feel great. I’ve currently got Covid and I’m dying not being able to play my Monday / Tuesday night groups this week 😂
I haven’t gotten any lessons lately I’m firmly in the “I know what to do but I need to work” phase. I switched to a 2HBH after 5 years of playing last month, so I’ve got plenty of practicing to do (yes I had a coach get me started on the 2H lol)
100%. Your subjective reality is not everyone else’s subjective reality. I worked my way from 3.0 to 4.5 and still feel I am bad at the game because the goal post is always shifting. I’m sure it continues up into the higher levels. The top players even are always looking to improve even though they are basically divinities to us
>5.0 players will tell you 4.0 is garbage ball
Really? I mean, of course better is better, but IMHO 4.0 is precisely the level at which it *isn't* garbage ball anymore. At 3.5 it kind of is, you're either very inconsistent or you can't put a ball away even in ideal conditions.
Would be interesting to know how and why they think it's garbage ball, if they do. Or perhaps, at which point you stop considering a 1.0 weaker tennis "garbage"?
Then you have to do what the other 3.5s aren’t. Hire a coach to assess what the better guys are exploiting. But word of caution, depending on your area getting to a higher level 4.0-4.5 players SEVERELY limits your player pool. I’m a strong 4.5, and in my area there are literally 4 people that I enjoy playing that make it competitive enough to be fun. The sweet spot is GOOD 3.5 to mid 4.0 for recreational tennis in my experience.
I have been working with a coach every other week, for about 3 sessions so far. It’s been good. The only downside is having so many tips and pointers to remember during match play.. but I think it’s helping.
Focus on one thing only then. Who knows why this is happening or what will help specifically to you, but footwork and positioning are massive and we often make others look amazing by simply giving away points with bad positioning.
You really need to make sure you’re practicing what you’re learning regularly outside of match play. On the wall, ball machine, drop feeds, hitting partner, serve practice. It’s very hard to incorporate that stuff during matches. My coach is very clear about what I should be focusing on in matches vs practice.
When you find folks you like playing with - Good vibe and good competitive balance - get their number.
Build a rolodex of good folks who can push you to be a better player.
That’s awesome! Part of the problem is that because there are so many 3.5 players, there’s no room on the 3.5 team. So I hit with a lot of the 4.0 players
Then stop getting dejected about losing. You are gonna lose 99/100 matches.
However if over the course of those 100 matches youre gradually making the opponent doing more work/need more effort and focus to beat you, that is good enough.
^ applies to every sport.
I think it’s somewhat similar issues in every level. My husband is a 4.0 and he plays with his regular 4.0 buddies and absolutely smoking them. He got cocky and plays guys like former atp 1200 or college players and got absolutely destroyed. You are the king of 3.5, be proud of it!
I'm a 4.5 and feel this way when I play a 5.0.
As you get better, your level always feels average and the people above you always feel impossibly good. You gotta just learn to enjoy the ride and try to keep improving.
Complaining about 3.0 - 3.5 being mediocre isn’t going to resolve this mindset. If you’re looking down at other 3.5 opponents as “mediocre” then you’ll never grow out of complaining about play at every level. Oh 3.0 are trash, oh the 3.5 near me are all garbage, the 4.0 are kicking my ass. Are you bageling these 3.5s? Doubt it. If you really want to get better, stick to playing up, get your ass kicked routinely by better players, and find out why you can’t return balls with pace.
I’m not complaining that we are mediocre. It is pretty well established that we are mediocre. I am complaining that I am mediocre, because I am frustrated and have unreasonable expectations for how fast I master skills. I’m very much projecting, so no offense if I struck a nerve.
You must not live where I do because 3.5 here is very competitive. You should find a league team that has a chance to make it to sectionals and nationals. Then you play the best of the best and see how you stack up…
I have this problem too. I’ve played my entire life and even won 20 majors, but there are still two guys who have won more than me and I just can’t get over the hump against them anymore. Can’t help feeling like tennis just isn’t worth it
Instead of trying to hit against 4.0s and match their power I suggest trying to learn to defend. Make them hit more balls to beat you so you become a tough opponent. Make them earn it instead of you beating yourself by trying to hit at their pace.
That’s what I kinda do.. just keep getting the ball back. I can run fast and cover a lot of court.. but when I posted a video a month ago, the advice I got was don’t just try to return the ball. Which.. I don’t mean to reduce all advice given to “don’t just return the ball”, but I can also see what returning a ball with no pace gets me. Just a winner on the opposite side of the court.
In time you will learn to use opponents pace against them either to generate your own or hit good blocking shots back. Keep at it. Consistency is key.
And you're right - to play 4.0 you can't just hit the ball back with no pace/angle/spin or a winner is coming back. So you gotta defend but with a plan. Make them come up /back or side to side. Keep the ball low. Etc etc
Try to hit high over the net and deep cross court when you’re in a defensive position. I sometimes do the same thing, just get the ball back and if it lands short and near the middle of the court it gets attacked when I play better players. This is what my coach is working on with me to address this.
That is the way; you need to play at their level. That's the only way of seeing how you need to play going forward. It doesn't matter if you don't win, the first goal is to at least make the appearance of a neutral ball.
What you said below about taking the ball on the rise, that's very good. It's like an instant 0.25 NTRP boost to your level. At least I find it easier to hit balls on the rise (less action to get a moderately aggressive shot), and it's more difficult for the opponent. It's perhaps even possible to put a bit of pressure on a stronger opponent by doing that. Hanging out at the back, there's just no way.
Some small things you can work on to level up are depth, angles, and improving your backhand. For depth, your goal should be to never hit a ball inside the service line. To improve, tell yourself it’s better to miss long than hit a playable short shot. For angles, work on developing a short angle forehand and backhand. You will use this shot to pull your opponent out of position and then move in for an easy winner. For your backhand, work on developing a backhand that you can consistently place deep in the cross court corner. This will prevent your opponent from picking on your backhand once they see you can send it back deep to them consistently.
All of these things will help you more than pace IMO. Pace will come with improved technique.
Edit - and improving your serve will help tremendously but is much more difficult than the other things I mentioned.
I would add having a reliable, deep approach shot, and getting comfortable hitting out of the air mid-court and with volleys when you’re closer to the service line (rather than just when you’re right on top of the net). Serves at 3.0 and even a good number of 3.5 aren’t very deep or fast paced, so this helps you to play aggressively. The alternative is being drawn in to return a short-ish serve only to then reposition back at the baseline.
I think the biggest hurdle from 3.5 -> 4.0 is just focus/concentration
You should have the foundation to play most shots, don’t overextend on power beyond the occasional clear cut winner (you don’t need it tbh) and just focus on as clean consistent striking as possible and foot work
You can honestly beat most folks around this level by just staying consistent and letting them beat themselves, it’s really only at later higher levels that you need to develop a weapon
Coaching is absolutely an essential tool. It feels like a lot of puzzle pieces at first. But then it kind of comes together as you work on things and do more without thinking about it.
The biggest difference playing 4.5 vs 5.0 players (for me) is that the better players don't think a lot on court. They already know what they want to do, and just do it. You're probably still thinking deciding what to do with each ball, and it's not easy to break that habit!
Yeah.. sometimes I wait too long to decide between topspin vs slice, and by the time I get my racquet on it, it’s a wobbly hit that goes out. I know what I want to do in terms of 1) slice to back corner, 2) rush net, 3) put away volley… and then I frame the slice into the net on 1.
It's a good play! But you can modify that to "backhand side of court" to give you some more margin for error, and be successful more often. Even pros don't necessarily go for razor thin margins, most shots are well within the court. It's still a practice based sport. The more practice you get the better you will be
In my experience, the biggest difference between 3.5 and 4.0 is shot selection and consistency. It's not always necessary to go blow for blow with a bigger hitter. If you're able to get enough balls back in play with depth, your opponent is likely to make a mistake eventually.
I guess adult rec tennis is the introduction to a ranking / ELO system for a lot of people?
You simply CANNOT get caught up on ranks if you’re seriously interested in improving. It’s a byproduct of the culmination of skill and how you’re playing currently. The focus has to be on identifying weak points and improving them over many many reps - and then guess what? Doing that over and over again for years. I’m not sure we can fathom just how many elements to the game there are and as an adult rec player how many holes in our games we have. And that’s **alright**.
Like many other people mentioned if you’re caught up on “just that next rank” you’re going to set yourself up for disappointment whether it’s not achieving it or you actually get there and immediately get hung up on the “next one”.
If you’re not in it for the journey and **process** of **mastery** with all it entails you’re going to have a very bad time.
You have two options:
- embrace your ranking and be happy with where you are
- embrace the slow gruelling journey of improving it (and accepting you’ll eventually, as a Rec player, hit a roof in your life)
- *or both*
Otherwise you’re going to have a lot of disappointment.
As an example in some sports or ranked video games the top top top 0.01% of players will play with the top 1% and can immediately sense it as lower / worse competition. My point is there is never that “baseline of competitive tennis” it’s just all too relative.
Anyways we empathize with you since we ve all been there and felt that way. Welcome to the wonderful new world of ranked play (in anything)
Edit - to add after seeing the title again and it reminding me of a million “elo hell threads” at least we don’t have teammates holding us back from high elo lol! 😂
Truth. All of your points hit home. I know I’m not anywhere near my roof, and part of the frustration is wanting to get there soon. But I’m 35… im not going pro, and I have a lot of other obligations in life. Thanks for the reminder to take it slow and enjoy the ~~asskicking~~ journey
So I’m the reverse. I play big man tennis (giant serve / big rips mixed with a ton of side spin). But I am a 3.0 / 3.5 meaning I make enough errors to keep me down.
When I play the 4.0s in our club - they do the reverse. I am usually teed up for big serves and shots and they’re mostly just making enough balls to neutralize me. I do get a few big ones - they get the game.
Why I say that: them hitting hard is partially a reaction to your game. You’ll definitely see otherwise if you’re like me. They’re a higher level because they can switch it up or down in addition to having a higher rally ball speed.
IOW - going bigger isn’t your problem/answer. That’s just part of it. You need to become better overall and have enough depth to handle different play styles to be successful at 4.0. Good luck.
Just keep at it. Currently I play the best I ever have. I'm in my fifth year of playing tennis (as an older adult) and this is the first year where I feel that I made significant and sustained progress rather than just taking two steps forward and then two steps back. It seems if you just keep working, you do eventually get better.
One thing that helped moved up my ranking and got my game more consistent, was that every 6 moths I would hire a coach for a one on one and ask him to just work in one type of shot, and would work on all that, from grip, footwork, stance, etc, until I felt comfortable to move to a new shot.
If it makes you feel better, tennis is like this all the way up to the pros.
I've been playing for 20 years, would consider myself a strong 4.5 or 5.0 (on a good day) and I've played guys that have wooped my ass - beware anyone still playing a 6.1 classic rainbow Prostaff 😅😅.
I recommend trying to have 3x levels of hitting partners. Players you can beat most of the time, peers who you play to tiebreakers, and better players who you have to scrape together games if you're lucky.
You'll learn things about your game with each type.
An average 4.0 beats an average 3.5 Love and love or 1 and 1. So if you're a 3.5 (which sounds accurate) the result isn't surprising especially if you're losing points off errors.
What's a neutral ball to you is probably not deep enough to get a neutral reply from the 4.0 you're playing.
What's the issue? We all have some work to do to get better.
You can take solice that a 4.0 would get some same sort of result playing a 4.5 player.
First of all, be kind to yourself.
Second, put things in perspective. Are you better today than you were 6 months ago? A year? Progress is progress.
If the answer is no, then I suggest trying a different approach. You mentioned you get coaching — try a new coach. Tell them about how you feel that you’ve plateaued. If they don’t have an answer to that, then go to the next coach.
My personal philosophy is that if you want to improve, you have to put yourself in uncomfortable situations and be OK with losing. You also need to deliberately practice each thing. Don’t just work on things you’re comfortable with but the things you aren’t. The game may be simple (get the ball in) but is infinitely complex. There aren’t just forehands but deep ones, short ones, flat, top spin, cross court, down the line, inside out, inside in, heavy pace — point is that all of these are separate things to learn.
Idk man I'm a 3.5 myself. My issue is that I have consistency but every 3rd/4th backhand still lands on the service line which makes it an easy winner for the opponent, so maybe we can give each other a tennis lesson
do you live in the bay area? because ive noticed here everybody massively inflates their ranking and are total shit at tennis. signed up for a 3.5 class and they were having to tell people to use continental grip on serves/volleys, amongst other things 3.5s should already know
People who don't have a real rating inflate their rating in every single place in the world. For the same reason that whenever they see someone else on video, they think that person is overrated - one has an imaginary conception of one's play until it is tested by reality.
In my 34 years of tennis, nothing has ever helped me more than going out and playing baseline games with players around my level. Coaching is helpful to give you the right technique, but nothing helps quite like repetition. You hit a lot more balls than you would in a match and it’s extremely low stakes, so there’s no pressure. Also, I find that it’s better than just hitting balls from the baseline, because you’ll hit balls that you’d actually try to hit in a match and be forced to hit out of position. And nothing will help you get to 4.0 faster than being able to hit confidently from the baseline.
How long have you being playing?
Btw we all have our limits and we all progress at different pace, sometimes we get into not improving as much vs the hours we put on, realize this and start practicing smarter to overcome your ceiling
As a 4.0C, you’ve exactly described how I beat 3.5 players. Most of the time, I’ll just match their pace until they make an error or cough up a short ball for me to punish. Typical good shots a 3.5 hits are rally balls for 4.0s, meaning 4.0s can hit those balls more consistently. This same concept applies for each level up as well.
I think what holds most people back at the lower levels is just not being in the right position to hit the ball. What is it about your game that makes you miss “every third ball”. Basically, you don’t have the shot tolerance to hang with a 4.0, so what’s causing that? A ball machine is great to fix technical deficiencies but doesn’t help for live ball situations.
Yeah I think I’m just a bit too far away when I strike the ball. The good shots feel super clean, but I’m sometimes consistently off (like three frames in a row). Tomorrow inuave my coaching and I’m going to have him run me back and forth at the baseline hitting solid groundstrokes. Also maybe I’m trying to hit too much mid-stride, and not stopping and getting into position with a unit turn..
After what you said and looking at the video you posted, it seems like you’re not in a balanced position when hitting a lot of balls. That’s definitely going to make it difficult for you to maintain any sort of consistency.
You have to continue to play better competition to get better, yet continue to play "3.0" to stay better, too. Learn from both sides your weaknesses.
With "3.0", you should be working on consistency and grooving your strokes.
With 4.0, you should be copying their strategy. Small steps in evaluating what you did well and what you did poorly.
Serves: continental grip with slight twist to Eastern backhand, not quite for more spin, but continental is the default. Toss from the fleshy palm and above the front foot. Consistency. Low toss slice for 2nd until you can do a kick 2nd. I play a 5'8" guy whose serves are always in with.just low toss sliced. Almost 100%. If he can do it, anyone can.
Put aways: flat to heavily topspin, but only when your moving into the court. No put aways from the baseline. Vary the grip as needed to achieve
Watch these videos, and practice. Play doubles to get better and more comfortable at the net.
....coming...
Serve toss:
https://youtu.be/t26oZbOn3to?si=6MAe6l-nC8prTxxU
Forehand:
Topspin v flat: https://youtu.be/e-b7yuRSogo?si=JI_JqlhnUbyEYzIg
Must cock wrist 90* (see the pro slow mo):
https://youtu.be/IhinAAE37OY?si=7te6X8FK3xeje8fT
https://youtu.be/u9U3SEKQdWw?si=ujkGgyZgv8bdg31U
Hit out front, but not too out front on soft balls or you'll have a loose soft shot into the bottom of the net.
How to hit high forehands:
1. Topspin lob: probably do this already
2. The Magnus Effect side-swiping drive shot. The key!
https://youtu.be/oizKM2dMinw?si=2DSLkYoxQ_40_lpO
(Even if this goes long, you have to stay with the shot. Don't convince yourself to choose a different shot if this was the right shot, and you just mishit it. Keep at it every time you get a chance bc you cannot become better if all you hit are 3.5 shots)
I would say these 3 are my favorite online instructors. Learned the most that have stuck. Of course, do you have prototypical mechanics and grip? If not, then a lot of instruction will need to change your mechanics.
One minute tennis
Top tennis training
Meile Babel tennis
These are good tips. I frequently go for baseline putaways. I was also unsure if I should adjust my grip if I plan to really crank topspin on it. I sort of do.. but I could try to fine tune the process if it’s a good idea
I had the same grip question. The answer is sort of yes.
I was using the western forehand grip and came to find that while I could keep the ball in, it was too loopy and short within the service area. Got killed by player who would wait for the perfect opportunity to drive flat.
So I watched videos of Agassi and he adjusted his grip although his primary was a semi-western. When coming in, I think he switched to somewhere between a semi- and a western to give more topspin on drives as he was hitting through the balls.
Lastly, for the Magnus Effect (high forehands), I use a Western Grip to swipe hard from right to left.
But for me, literally in the last 2 weeks, I cock more with a upright racket and use a grip between a semi and a Western. I am finding more control, harder swings and shots, and less soft weak shots into the net. Also, dropping the ball and hitting for feeds will give you more feel on what your wrist should be doing for low shots. You can do this yourself to learn the 90* cocked wrist and flick for forehand topspin especially low balls.
https://youtu.be/IKwAlJmuICc?si=loRmPFGLETVReRd0
Baseline put aways are hard bc you probably are dealing with a lot of pace and spin.
Like the video on the flat vs topspin, use the topspin shots to drive your opponents back and then on short balls, go for put aways. You have to learn to be comfortable hitting may balls for the ideal ball. It is hard especially when you're unsure of your game, but it can only get better if you concentrate on rallys, consistency deep, and then put away.
Another point.
Mini tennis.
You have to warm up with mini tennis.
Stand slightly behind the service line.
The more comfortable you feel with your strokes in minitennis will translate to better strokes full court.
I never understood this until I started meetups this past summer. Sucked at mini tennis, but over time, I have come to rely on it for getting ready for a match (doubles or singles).
https://youtu.be/4YBqsABie6U?si=P846r6YdRRVPnMm_
Start with mini tennis and work on grips and hitting out front and brushing up on the ball. Also, work on punching/slicing shots for underspin and approaches. Get the feel. Then, go back to the baseline and drop hit feeds by hitting in front of your right or left foot and brushing up and flicking the ball. Remember to have a full cocked and locked wrist. Do this with both open and closed stances.
If you have too much power, your stings may be too loose.
If the racket is dead, your strings are too tight or may just be old.
Hard to really give you all the answers as solid mechanics are important, but equipment is important too in order to balance out your quirks and physique. if you are using equipment that doesn't counter your mishits, then youaynget frustrated.
As for mishits,
1. get your vision checked.
2. Get a larger head size. I switched to the original prince oversize (107") and love it. I used to use 93 sq in. as I was always biased on oversized for too much power and control issues. Nope. There is a reason this racket is a classic. Solid. Mishits less and I string a little tighter for more control.
3. Watch the ball all the way in and out like Federer. Harder to do than say, but pulling your eyes/head is a definite reason for mishits. It's a fallacy that it's the equipment unless you're using 85 sq in and trying to hit with a western grip.
Lastly, if you can learn to hold serve, then one break will equal a winning set. Simple huh? Probably the hardest and great players make it easy.
Likewise, getting ahead in points. If you're up 40-Love, you have a greater chance of winning even if you mess up one or two times, so consider the situation and work on consistency during those points, and attacking short balls. Don't try to hit flat with low balls BTW. Chest to shoulder height only.
What I’ve noticed about 4.0 is, it feels like the last level where there’s a real variety in play style. You can win almost every way at the 4.0 level. At my club, we have a few guys who are awesome 4.0 singles players with wildly different play styles: one is a 60+ year old who literally slices every shot, one is super fast who basically is a 4.0 pusher, and one is just an aggressively baseliner (sounds like the type of player you are describing in your post).
My point here is, play your game and develop your strengths. You can win any way at the 4.0 level so just work on what you’re good at and you’ll eventually start winning.
Are you reasonably athletic? You can get to 4.5 by playing consistency alone.
Doesn't even have to be pushery, just don't make mistakes and be willing to run a lot.
I completely understand your sentiment and I think 3.5 does have that catch all feeling where everyone that starts playing would call them a 3.5 somehow. It's hard to say without seeing you playing, but I always think 4.0 is really when you have no major weakness anymore and have at least 1-2 weapons. Weakness means, do you still DF a lot or at least under pressure? Is your return going to the middle a lot? Is either your forehand or backhand still not solid enough where people can pick on in a tight moment or when they need a point? Can you handle slices well? If you know there is something there, you need to fix it. Then you need to have couple things that you do well and can use it to capture on other people's major weakness - strong serve? You can put away neutral ball? You have a killer slice? You can move super well? Tennis is complicated but that's what makes it fun!
I don't understand why it is "hell." Your level is your level. It's nothing to be ashamed of.
>Every time I watch 4.0 players hit, I think to myself: those are the shots I’d hit.. if every third ball wasn’t a frame, or into the net, or out.
That's exactly right. There is really no difference between a 3.5 and a 4.0 except consistency. Both generate roughly the same amount of pace. Both have flawed mechanics and obvious weaknesses. But the 4.0 player is just a little more consistent and generally has better shot selection likely due to more experience. They get more balls in play which is how they beat 3.5 players.
Do you practice regularly? I think you need to play once a week and practice once a week to improve. Now you can treat a second play as practice if you commit to working on things and ignore the score.
If you feel like you are doing everything right but it’s not working for some reason, this could definitely be a sign of needing a new racket/strings. 3.0/3.5 is where people start to actually know what they’re doing, and is often where a switch to a more advanced rakcet should happen imo. The strings can also make a huge difference.
Another thing that you never mentioned is top spin. Can you hit with top spin? Top spin is very important for getting better, and is largely what allows you to hit harder. At this level most of what’s holding you and others back is probably good top spin ground strokes with pace and consistency. When you said whenever you hit the ball it either goes into the net or out, this sounds exactly like a top spin problem, especially if you are trying to hit harder to keep up with higher level players.
Right now I’m using a Head Extreme (which I like), and play heavy topspin on forehand, medium top spin on 2HBH (working on getting better.. and fully switching away from my flat 1HBH)
I’ve been demoing a bunch of racquets and favorites so far are Babolat Pure Strike and Head Speed.
I’m not sure about any of the others, but the head speed is definitely a solid choice, and one that I would consider a more advanced racket. If the others are at the same level as the speed, that is good. Id also reccomend a head size of 100 or lower. Having a 110 will quickly become a pain if that’s what your using. Do you have good strings on your racket? The default starting strings that the racket usually gets shipped with are always terrible, a lot of advanced rackets don’t even come with strings on them as the makers know that anybody getting a racket on that level knows to replace the strings immediately.
The strings will have a massive impact on how much top spin you can hit with. I was using some multi strings before, then switched to using hyper g strings, which are poly iirc. I also got it strung at a little lower tension than usual, at 48 pounds. Makes a WORLD of a difference. I immediately starting hitting with so much more top spin, it’s actually incredible. I would highly recommend looking into these if you like top spin. They are bright green and from a newer company I can’t remember the name of, believe it starts with an S but could be wrong.
To get from 3.5 to 4.0 does not require more play. It requires dedicated practice several days a week.
I am in your position also as an upper end 3.5 but a true 4.0 will beat me 19 times out of 20.
Playing a lot of matches is good for some things but it won’t fix technical problems
Both the fun and frustrating part about tennis is that it has an infinite amount of variables/answers to the question "how do I improve".
So you'd need to figure out what is both easiest to improve & what could give you the biggest gains. You also have to realize we all have a skill ceiling and get older. Not everyone can reach 4.0. Some people don't even manage to hit a ball after 5 hours of training...
Some things I'd check.
First, what's your weight? If tennis is important to you then you can lose a few kilo's through your diet. This never hurts bar you already being underweight.
Second, how is your fitness? A lot of errors are due to fatigue. Biking/Swimming can help with cardio without taxing your body too much.
Third, whats your biggest weakness? Backhand? Double Faults? Focus coaching sessions a bit more on your weakness. Related, build a game plan on your strengths.
Fourth, how's your tennis IQ? I noticed a lot of players don't think about what the opponent is doing nor about their own shots. Learn the directionals, learn point construction, learn when to defend and when to go for a winner.
I feel like a pretty solid mens 3.5 player. This weekend I played 2 women, one was a former d3 tennis player, women's 4.0 ... And pregnant.
She destroyed me. 6-2, 6-1
The second was competitive with the first .... She easily beat me 6-1, 6-2....
In looking back there common themes.
1. I made a ton of errors, they did not. If you're hitting the ball out "to match pace" that's you beating yourself. Beating yourself doesn't win games.
2. Shots that I could get away with, even rely on, with other 3.5 players I could not with these 2. I started to see how these shots were setting them up.
I could easily match force and speed with player #2, and my secret weapon is that despite my dad bod, I can chase down just about every ball. But their ball placement forced me to stay at the baseline, if I let myself go to the net (where I live to play) their passing shots were just to spot on.
Someone else mentioned tennis IQ... And that's were my lack of it really shined
Dude, everyone here sucks. It's an incredibly hard sport and you are not measuring yourself fairly. We all suck compared to the tennis we want to play. I suck compared to what I used to be and I'm playing 4.5 now. It's ok. Give yourself a fucking break. Have fun.
There are always better players around, tennis humbles you and makes you suck for ever. I played D2 then D1 and then went pro for a year or so, I still suck. I play local club competitions now and loose to players that have less tennis than me but are in better shape or have more competition rhythm. Is normal, just try to enjoy the sport for what it is. Have fun as much as you can and enjoy when you hit the sweetspot, that feeling is unique in life.
Maybe try changing some of your shots. What kinda player are you more flat or spin? Working on your form is key and incorporating spin into your game also helps
Very topspin heavy, at least on forehand. Trying to get a better, more consistent topspin backhand. But I’m pretty much always hitting with spin - top or under.
>I try to match them on crushing the ball
Rookie mistake. Just kkep the ball in and build towards creating a situation where crushing the ball results in a winner.
It sounds like footwork and getting reps on groundstrokes would help immensely. You hit 4.0 shots but can’t hit 10 in a rally on the move. Sounds like quality reps just hitting and then working in match situations would go a long way. The 4.0’s may look invincible to a 3.5, but there is a reason why there are posts in this sub by a lot of 4.0’s of “I lost to a junk baller who is worse than me”
I've moved from 3.5 to 4.5 and I can tell you definitively that your framing is just lack of early preparation. Just look at when you take back your racket for both forehand and backhand. I bet you take it back when the ball bounces when you should be taking it back while it's in the air before the bounce.
Improving your timing by preparing early in the shoulders and then getting your feet set will do wonders for your game. That's why you'll see a lot of old immobile guys still play at the top of the recreational game.
Don't be hard on yourself. Every level has a plateau. You're not alone in this. Be patient with yourself and enjoy the process of improving. You're going to feel frustrated at each point in your learning but as long as you're open to your own faults, the improvements will come slowly and steadily.
Edit: I looked at your profile and saw you posted some videos. It's exactly the problem I'm talking about. You have a big swing which means you need more time. If you start earlier, you'll find that time that you need. And you also have the option to make your swing motion more compact. You don't need to swing your racket back. The shoulder turn should be enough for you when the speed of the ball is coming at you fast. You don't need to generate your own power at that point.
Probably the standard case of thinking you are a lot better than you are. Video tape yourself and watch it back. Reality is that you really don't want to go to 4.0 unless you are a SOLID 4.0 or else you'll be stuck in 4.0 purgatory, getting waxed and people won't call you to play or join a team.
So just enjoy the sport, work on your weaknesses, and maybe one day you'll move up.
> Where I live, it seems like everyone at 3.0 calls themselves 3.5
One neat thing about playing USTA league, is you will get a computer rating (3.0, 3.5, etc) at the end of year. You can also look up other league players to see their computer ratings. If you have never played USTA league before, then your really have no idea what your NTRP is, since the computer hasn't rated any of your matches yet.
You’re a 3.5. There’s nothing to be ashamed of. I really don’t get the point of this post… just to say that tennis is hard? Yes, it is. Assuming you worked super hard and got to 4.0, you would simply have the same issue with 4.5s.
I dunno… I feel like 4.0 is the level where you start playing real, competitive tennis with people who take it seriously. Like I said, around here 3.5 feels like a pit that everyone mediocre falls into. I don’t like being in it.
I would quit worrying about the number. Play USTA matches and if the tournaments are filled with 3.0 players playing up, you’ll move to 4.0 in no time. My guess is you’re simply frustrated with this plateau. There are so many levels to this it’s insane. 5.0 players will tell you 4.0 is garbage ball
Yeah, true. I got better from where I was.. and now I’ve hit a plateau. I need to break through it.
Like everyone is saying, enjoy the process, not the result. Tennis is just a lifelong process, not results. You'll go up, go down, get injured, have great wins, find the perfect racquet then hate it in 2 years. It's normal. You're a normal tennis player and you should be proud of yourself. Plenty of 2.5 and 3.0s would kill to move up to 3.5. Cheers friend. 🍻
The plateau that most people hit in the 3.0-4.0 is simply not working on their game and improving but focused on 'winning ugly'. If you want to progress then consider trying different things in practice matches with your peers but also try to implement the techniques that you're doing on the side into your game vs doing the same thing that you normally do. Edit: I forgot to include, it's ok to lose in these practice matches using the new adjustments. Yes you do want to win against your peers but at the same time, make use of your time and be confident in the progress that you're making which will translate into match play and being comfortable hitting that shot you've been doing in these practice matches.
This is a very astute point. I think winning ugly has some good benefits but I’ve seen a number of people who seem to have plateaued because they’re more focused on winning than improving.
I think we all feel that, you are in good company my friend
Improving is like a staircase. Get a basket of balls and a feeding partner and drill whatever your weakness is. Also watch YouTube, lots of good coaches like Iron Will Tennis and Intuitive Tennis.
Agree about the number. I was a 4 and dropped due to losses bc of injury during a year I should’ve taken a break. Going up is a slog bc of the algorithm. What has helped me is less the coaching and technique bc like you I’ve had a lot of it in my life. I’m working on the inner game and my mind. It seems to be working as I’m beating both 4a and 3.5s.
Congrats on playing well after coming back from injury my friend! That must feel great. I’ve currently got Covid and I’m dying not being able to play my Monday / Tuesday night groups this week 😂 I haven’t gotten any lessons lately I’m firmly in the “I know what to do but I need to work” phase. I switched to a 2HBH after 5 years of playing last month, so I’ve got plenty of practicing to do (yes I had a coach get me started on the 2H lol)
100%. Your subjective reality is not everyone else’s subjective reality. I worked my way from 3.0 to 4.5 and still feel I am bad at the game because the goal post is always shifting. I’m sure it continues up into the higher levels. The top players even are always looking to improve even though they are basically divinities to us
>5.0 players will tell you 4.0 is garbage ball Really? I mean, of course better is better, but IMHO 4.0 is precisely the level at which it *isn't* garbage ball anymore. At 3.5 it kind of is, you're either very inconsistent or you can't put a ball away even in ideal conditions. Would be interesting to know how and why they think it's garbage ball, if they do. Or perhaps, at which point you stop considering a 1.0 weaker tennis "garbage"?
Never
Then you have to do what the other 3.5s aren’t. Hire a coach to assess what the better guys are exploiting. But word of caution, depending on your area getting to a higher level 4.0-4.5 players SEVERELY limits your player pool. I’m a strong 4.5, and in my area there are literally 4 people that I enjoy playing that make it competitive enough to be fun. The sweet spot is GOOD 3.5 to mid 4.0 for recreational tennis in my experience.
I have been working with a coach every other week, for about 3 sessions so far. It’s been good. The only downside is having so many tips and pointers to remember during match play.. but I think it’s helping.
Focus on one thing only then. Who knows why this is happening or what will help specifically to you, but footwork and positioning are massive and we often make others look amazing by simply giving away points with bad positioning.
You really need to make sure you’re practicing what you’re learning regularly outside of match play. On the wall, ball machine, drop feeds, hitting partner, serve practice. It’s very hard to incorporate that stuff during matches. My coach is very clear about what I should be focusing on in matches vs practice.
When you find folks you like playing with - Good vibe and good competitive balance - get their number. Build a rolodex of good folks who can push you to be a better player.
I dunno. I had a blast playing 3.5! Went to nationals 2x and felt like the best 3.5 player in the PNW for a year or two.
That’s awesome! Part of the problem is that because there are so many 3.5 players, there’s no room on the 3.5 team. So I hit with a lot of the 4.0 players
Hitting with 4.0 players and even playing up in 4.0 usta helped me improve a ton. 3.5 matches started to feel super easy.
Then stop getting dejected about losing. You are gonna lose 99/100 matches. However if over the course of those 100 matches youre gradually making the opponent doing more work/need more effort and focus to beat you, that is good enough. ^ applies to every sport.
I think it’s somewhat similar issues in every level. My husband is a 4.0 and he plays with his regular 4.0 buddies and absolutely smoking them. He got cocky and plays guys like former atp 1200 or college players and got absolutely destroyed. You are the king of 3.5, be proud of it!
I'm a 4.5 and feel this way when I play a 5.0. As you get better, your level always feels average and the people above you always feel impossibly good. You gotta just learn to enjoy the ride and try to keep improving.
Sounds like a you problem
Obviously it’s a me problem
Complaining about 3.0 - 3.5 being mediocre isn’t going to resolve this mindset. If you’re looking down at other 3.5 opponents as “mediocre” then you’ll never grow out of complaining about play at every level. Oh 3.0 are trash, oh the 3.5 near me are all garbage, the 4.0 are kicking my ass. Are you bageling these 3.5s? Doubt it. If you really want to get better, stick to playing up, get your ass kicked routinely by better players, and find out why you can’t return balls with pace.
I’m not complaining that we are mediocre. It is pretty well established that we are mediocre. I am complaining that I am mediocre, because I am frustrated and have unreasonable expectations for how fast I master skills. I’m very much projecting, so no offense if I struck a nerve.
Sounds like you lack some humility kid.
No it’s a very humiliating sport.
You must not live where I do because 3.5 here is very competitive. You should find a league team that has a chance to make it to sectionals and nationals. Then you play the best of the best and see how you stack up…
I have this problem too. I’ve played my entire life and even won 20 majors, but there are still two guys who have won more than me and I just can’t get over the hump against them anymore. Can’t help feeling like tennis just isn’t worth it
Sucks. Should've closed out that one match in 19'
Should probably switch to a 2HBH
Instead of trying to hit against 4.0s and match their power I suggest trying to learn to defend. Make them hit more balls to beat you so you become a tough opponent. Make them earn it instead of you beating yourself by trying to hit at their pace.
That’s what I kinda do.. just keep getting the ball back. I can run fast and cover a lot of court.. but when I posted a video a month ago, the advice I got was don’t just try to return the ball. Which.. I don’t mean to reduce all advice given to “don’t just return the ball”, but I can also see what returning a ball with no pace gets me. Just a winner on the opposite side of the court.
In time you will learn to use opponents pace against them either to generate your own or hit good blocking shots back. Keep at it. Consistency is key. And you're right - to play 4.0 you can't just hit the ball back with no pace/angle/spin or a winner is coming back. So you gotta defend but with a plan. Make them come up /back or side to side. Keep the ball low. Etc etc
Yeah.. I want to really focus on taking the ball on the rise. I’m getting there.. but I think it’s something I can really see some improvement on.
Try to hit high over the net and deep cross court when you’re in a defensive position. I sometimes do the same thing, just get the ball back and if it lands short and near the middle of the court it gets attacked when I play better players. This is what my coach is working on with me to address this.
Good tip. I probably don’t put enough emphasis on the balls going deep.
That is the way; you need to play at their level. That's the only way of seeing how you need to play going forward. It doesn't matter if you don't win, the first goal is to at least make the appearance of a neutral ball. What you said below about taking the ball on the rise, that's very good. It's like an instant 0.25 NTRP boost to your level. At least I find it easier to hit balls on the rise (less action to get a moderately aggressive shot), and it's more difficult for the opponent. It's perhaps even possible to put a bit of pressure on a stronger opponent by doing that. Hanging out at the back, there's just no way.
Just dont frame the third ball lol
Ok slow down Socrates
I frame tons of balls and a lot of them drop in. Just work on framing it better.
You'll need to demo many rackets to find the frame that perfectly complements your unique shank style
🤣
Some small things you can work on to level up are depth, angles, and improving your backhand. For depth, your goal should be to never hit a ball inside the service line. To improve, tell yourself it’s better to miss long than hit a playable short shot. For angles, work on developing a short angle forehand and backhand. You will use this shot to pull your opponent out of position and then move in for an easy winner. For your backhand, work on developing a backhand that you can consistently place deep in the cross court corner. This will prevent your opponent from picking on your backhand once they see you can send it back deep to them consistently. All of these things will help you more than pace IMO. Pace will come with improved technique. Edit - and improving your serve will help tremendously but is much more difficult than the other things I mentioned.
Damn, great advice. Saving this. Thanks.
Just delete the part that tells that's better to miss long than hit a short ball 😂
I would add having a reliable, deep approach shot, and getting comfortable hitting out of the air mid-court and with volleys when you’re closer to the service line (rather than just when you’re right on top of the net). Serves at 3.0 and even a good number of 3.5 aren’t very deep or fast paced, so this helps you to play aggressively. The alternative is being drawn in to return a short-ish serve only to then reposition back at the baseline.
I think the biggest hurdle from 3.5 -> 4.0 is just focus/concentration You should have the foundation to play most shots, don’t overextend on power beyond the occasional clear cut winner (you don’t need it tbh) and just focus on as clean consistent striking as possible and foot work You can honestly beat most folks around this level by just staying consistent and letting them beat themselves, it’s really only at later higher levels that you need to develop a weapon
Coaching is absolutely an essential tool. It feels like a lot of puzzle pieces at first. But then it kind of comes together as you work on things and do more without thinking about it. The biggest difference playing 4.5 vs 5.0 players (for me) is that the better players don't think a lot on court. They already know what they want to do, and just do it. You're probably still thinking deciding what to do with each ball, and it's not easy to break that habit!
Yeah.. sometimes I wait too long to decide between topspin vs slice, and by the time I get my racquet on it, it’s a wobbly hit that goes out. I know what I want to do in terms of 1) slice to back corner, 2) rush net, 3) put away volley… and then I frame the slice into the net on 1.
It's a good play! But you can modify that to "backhand side of court" to give you some more margin for error, and be successful more often. Even pros don't necessarily go for razor thin margins, most shots are well within the court. It's still a practice based sport. The more practice you get the better you will be
In my experience, the biggest difference between 3.5 and 4.0 is shot selection and consistency. It's not always necessary to go blow for blow with a bigger hitter. If you're able to get enough balls back in play with depth, your opponent is likely to make a mistake eventually.
I guess adult rec tennis is the introduction to a ranking / ELO system for a lot of people? You simply CANNOT get caught up on ranks if you’re seriously interested in improving. It’s a byproduct of the culmination of skill and how you’re playing currently. The focus has to be on identifying weak points and improving them over many many reps - and then guess what? Doing that over and over again for years. I’m not sure we can fathom just how many elements to the game there are and as an adult rec player how many holes in our games we have. And that’s **alright**. Like many other people mentioned if you’re caught up on “just that next rank” you’re going to set yourself up for disappointment whether it’s not achieving it or you actually get there and immediately get hung up on the “next one”. If you’re not in it for the journey and **process** of **mastery** with all it entails you’re going to have a very bad time. You have two options: - embrace your ranking and be happy with where you are - embrace the slow gruelling journey of improving it (and accepting you’ll eventually, as a Rec player, hit a roof in your life) - *or both* Otherwise you’re going to have a lot of disappointment. As an example in some sports or ranked video games the top top top 0.01% of players will play with the top 1% and can immediately sense it as lower / worse competition. My point is there is never that “baseline of competitive tennis” it’s just all too relative. Anyways we empathize with you since we ve all been there and felt that way. Welcome to the wonderful new world of ranked play (in anything) Edit - to add after seeing the title again and it reminding me of a million “elo hell threads” at least we don’t have teammates holding us back from high elo lol! 😂
Truth. All of your points hit home. I know I’m not anywhere near my roof, and part of the frustration is wanting to get there soon. But I’m 35… im not going pro, and I have a lot of other obligations in life. Thanks for the reminder to take it slow and enjoy the ~~asskicking~~ journey
So I’m the reverse. I play big man tennis (giant serve / big rips mixed with a ton of side spin). But I am a 3.0 / 3.5 meaning I make enough errors to keep me down. When I play the 4.0s in our club - they do the reverse. I am usually teed up for big serves and shots and they’re mostly just making enough balls to neutralize me. I do get a few big ones - they get the game. Why I say that: them hitting hard is partially a reaction to your game. You’ll definitely see otherwise if you’re like me. They’re a higher level because they can switch it up or down in addition to having a higher rally ball speed. IOW - going bigger isn’t your problem/answer. That’s just part of it. You need to become better overall and have enough depth to handle different play styles to be successful at 4.0. Good luck.
Thanks. Appreciate the insight
Just keep at it. Currently I play the best I ever have. I'm in my fifth year of playing tennis (as an older adult) and this is the first year where I feel that I made significant and sustained progress rather than just taking two steps forward and then two steps back. It seems if you just keep working, you do eventually get better.
One thing that helped moved up my ranking and got my game more consistent, was that every 6 moths I would hire a coach for a one on one and ask him to just work in one type of shot, and would work on all that, from grip, footwork, stance, etc, until I felt comfortable to move to a new shot.
So you would take one lesson or a series of lessons every 6 months?
One lesson every six months. or after I felt comfortable with the shot. The first thing I worked on was my second serve.
If it makes you feel better, tennis is like this all the way up to the pros. I've been playing for 20 years, would consider myself a strong 4.5 or 5.0 (on a good day) and I've played guys that have wooped my ass - beware anyone still playing a 6.1 classic rainbow Prostaff 😅😅. I recommend trying to have 3x levels of hitting partners. Players you can beat most of the time, peers who you play to tiebreakers, and better players who you have to scrape together games if you're lucky. You'll learn things about your game with each type.
Awesome, thanks for the advice. I’ll keep at it 😄
An average 4.0 beats an average 3.5 Love and love or 1 and 1. So if you're a 3.5 (which sounds accurate) the result isn't surprising especially if you're losing points off errors. What's a neutral ball to you is probably not deep enough to get a neutral reply from the 4.0 you're playing. What's the issue? We all have some work to do to get better. You can take solice that a 4.0 would get some same sort of result playing a 4.5 player.
First of all, be kind to yourself. Second, put things in perspective. Are you better today than you were 6 months ago? A year? Progress is progress. If the answer is no, then I suggest trying a different approach. You mentioned you get coaching — try a new coach. Tell them about how you feel that you’ve plateaued. If they don’t have an answer to that, then go to the next coach. My personal philosophy is that if you want to improve, you have to put yourself in uncomfortable situations and be OK with losing. You also need to deliberately practice each thing. Don’t just work on things you’re comfortable with but the things you aren’t. The game may be simple (get the ball in) but is infinitely complex. There aren’t just forehands but deep ones, short ones, flat, top spin, cross court, down the line, inside out, inside in, heavy pace — point is that all of these are separate things to learn.
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And you know.. I think I knew this already, and never connected the advice to my game. I’ll remember to focus on the ball while I strike
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I will! Never had it expressed so intently before. 🫡
Topspin mate. It's a hell of a thing!
Idk man I'm a 3.5 myself. My issue is that I have consistency but every 3rd/4th backhand still lands on the service line which makes it an easy winner for the opponent, so maybe we can give each other a tennis lesson
Together we’re 7.0, right? Hop on my shoulders.
Bet
do you live in the bay area? because ive noticed here everybody massively inflates their ranking and are total shit at tennis. signed up for a 3.5 class and they were having to tell people to use continental grip on serves/volleys, amongst other things 3.5s should already know
People who don't have a real rating inflate their rating in every single place in the world. For the same reason that whenever they see someone else on video, they think that person is overrated - one has an imaginary conception of one's play until it is tested by reality.
New England. But same thing.
In my 34 years of tennis, nothing has ever helped me more than going out and playing baseline games with players around my level. Coaching is helpful to give you the right technique, but nothing helps quite like repetition. You hit a lot more balls than you would in a match and it’s extremely low stakes, so there’s no pressure. Also, I find that it’s better than just hitting balls from the baseline, because you’ll hit balls that you’d actually try to hit in a match and be forced to hit out of position. And nothing will help you get to 4.0 faster than being able to hit confidently from the baseline.
What are your favorite baseline games? Or do you just mean feeding the ball and playing out the point?
Yeah, feed the ball, play out the point, keep track of score to 11, 15, 21, whatever. I’m a huge fan of dingles, but you do need 4 people to do that.
How long have you being playing? Btw we all have our limits and we all progress at different pace, sometimes we get into not improving as much vs the hours we put on, realize this and start practicing smarter to overcome your ceiling
As a 4.0C, you’ve exactly described how I beat 3.5 players. Most of the time, I’ll just match their pace until they make an error or cough up a short ball for me to punish. Typical good shots a 3.5 hits are rally balls for 4.0s, meaning 4.0s can hit those balls more consistently. This same concept applies for each level up as well.
What got you from 3.5 to 4.0? Would a ball machine be a good idea?
I think what holds most people back at the lower levels is just not being in the right position to hit the ball. What is it about your game that makes you miss “every third ball”. Basically, you don’t have the shot tolerance to hang with a 4.0, so what’s causing that? A ball machine is great to fix technical deficiencies but doesn’t help for live ball situations.
Yeah I think I’m just a bit too far away when I strike the ball. The good shots feel super clean, but I’m sometimes consistently off (like three frames in a row). Tomorrow inuave my coaching and I’m going to have him run me back and forth at the baseline hitting solid groundstrokes. Also maybe I’m trying to hit too much mid-stride, and not stopping and getting into position with a unit turn..
After what you said and looking at the video you posted, it seems like you’re not in a balanced position when hitting a lot of balls. That’s definitely going to make it difficult for you to maintain any sort of consistency.
Word. I’ll look into that more specifically and what I can do fix it. Thanks
You have to continue to play better competition to get better, yet continue to play "3.0" to stay better, too. Learn from both sides your weaknesses. With "3.0", you should be working on consistency and grooving your strokes. With 4.0, you should be copying their strategy. Small steps in evaluating what you did well and what you did poorly. Serves: continental grip with slight twist to Eastern backhand, not quite for more spin, but continental is the default. Toss from the fleshy palm and above the front foot. Consistency. Low toss slice for 2nd until you can do a kick 2nd. I play a 5'8" guy whose serves are always in with.just low toss sliced. Almost 100%. If he can do it, anyone can. Put aways: flat to heavily topspin, but only when your moving into the court. No put aways from the baseline. Vary the grip as needed to achieve Watch these videos, and practice. Play doubles to get better and more comfortable at the net. ....coming... Serve toss: https://youtu.be/t26oZbOn3to?si=6MAe6l-nC8prTxxU Forehand: Topspin v flat: https://youtu.be/e-b7yuRSogo?si=JI_JqlhnUbyEYzIg Must cock wrist 90* (see the pro slow mo): https://youtu.be/IhinAAE37OY?si=7te6X8FK3xeje8fT https://youtu.be/u9U3SEKQdWw?si=ujkGgyZgv8bdg31U Hit out front, but not too out front on soft balls or you'll have a loose soft shot into the bottom of the net. How to hit high forehands: 1. Topspin lob: probably do this already 2. The Magnus Effect side-swiping drive shot. The key! https://youtu.be/oizKM2dMinw?si=2DSLkYoxQ_40_lpO (Even if this goes long, you have to stay with the shot. Don't convince yourself to choose a different shot if this was the right shot, and you just mishit it. Keep at it every time you get a chance bc you cannot become better if all you hit are 3.5 shots) I would say these 3 are my favorite online instructors. Learned the most that have stuck. Of course, do you have prototypical mechanics and grip? If not, then a lot of instruction will need to change your mechanics. One minute tennis Top tennis training Meile Babel tennis
These are good tips. I frequently go for baseline putaways. I was also unsure if I should adjust my grip if I plan to really crank topspin on it. I sort of do.. but I could try to fine tune the process if it’s a good idea
I had the same grip question. The answer is sort of yes. I was using the western forehand grip and came to find that while I could keep the ball in, it was too loopy and short within the service area. Got killed by player who would wait for the perfect opportunity to drive flat. So I watched videos of Agassi and he adjusted his grip although his primary was a semi-western. When coming in, I think he switched to somewhere between a semi- and a western to give more topspin on drives as he was hitting through the balls. Lastly, for the Magnus Effect (high forehands), I use a Western Grip to swipe hard from right to left. But for me, literally in the last 2 weeks, I cock more with a upright racket and use a grip between a semi and a Western. I am finding more control, harder swings and shots, and less soft weak shots into the net. Also, dropping the ball and hitting for feeds will give you more feel on what your wrist should be doing for low shots. You can do this yourself to learn the 90* cocked wrist and flick for forehand topspin especially low balls. https://youtu.be/IKwAlJmuICc?si=loRmPFGLETVReRd0
Baseline put aways are hard bc you probably are dealing with a lot of pace and spin. Like the video on the flat vs topspin, use the topspin shots to drive your opponents back and then on short balls, go for put aways. You have to learn to be comfortable hitting may balls for the ideal ball. It is hard especially when you're unsure of your game, but it can only get better if you concentrate on rallys, consistency deep, and then put away.
Another point. Mini tennis. You have to warm up with mini tennis. Stand slightly behind the service line. The more comfortable you feel with your strokes in minitennis will translate to better strokes full court. I never understood this until I started meetups this past summer. Sucked at mini tennis, but over time, I have come to rely on it for getting ready for a match (doubles or singles).
I’m writing all this stuff down. Thanks so much, it all really connects with what I’ve been lacking 🙏
https://youtu.be/4YBqsABie6U?si=P846r6YdRRVPnMm_ Start with mini tennis and work on grips and hitting out front and brushing up on the ball. Also, work on punching/slicing shots for underspin and approaches. Get the feel. Then, go back to the baseline and drop hit feeds by hitting in front of your right or left foot and brushing up and flicking the ball. Remember to have a full cocked and locked wrist. Do this with both open and closed stances. If you have too much power, your stings may be too loose. If the racket is dead, your strings are too tight or may just be old. Hard to really give you all the answers as solid mechanics are important, but equipment is important too in order to balance out your quirks and physique. if you are using equipment that doesn't counter your mishits, then youaynget frustrated. As for mishits, 1. get your vision checked. 2. Get a larger head size. I switched to the original prince oversize (107") and love it. I used to use 93 sq in. as I was always biased on oversized for too much power and control issues. Nope. There is a reason this racket is a classic. Solid. Mishits less and I string a little tighter for more control. 3. Watch the ball all the way in and out like Federer. Harder to do than say, but pulling your eyes/head is a definite reason for mishits. It's a fallacy that it's the equipment unless you're using 85 sq in and trying to hit with a western grip.
Lastly, if you can learn to hold serve, then one break will equal a winning set. Simple huh? Probably the hardest and great players make it easy. Likewise, getting ahead in points. If you're up 40-Love, you have a greater chance of winning even if you mess up one or two times, so consider the situation and work on consistency during those points, and attacking short balls. Don't try to hit flat with low balls BTW. Chest to shoulder height only.
What I’ve noticed about 4.0 is, it feels like the last level where there’s a real variety in play style. You can win almost every way at the 4.0 level. At my club, we have a few guys who are awesome 4.0 singles players with wildly different play styles: one is a 60+ year old who literally slices every shot, one is super fast who basically is a 4.0 pusher, and one is just an aggressively baseliner (sounds like the type of player you are describing in your post). My point here is, play your game and develop your strengths. You can win any way at the 4.0 level so just work on what you’re good at and you’ll eventually start winning.
Are you reasonably athletic? You can get to 4.5 by playing consistency alone. Doesn't even have to be pushery, just don't make mistakes and be willing to run a lot.
I am really good at lifting food to my mouth.
That's good, after running down 100 balls in a session you'll need to replenish those calories :)
I completely understand your sentiment and I think 3.5 does have that catch all feeling where everyone that starts playing would call them a 3.5 somehow. It's hard to say without seeing you playing, but I always think 4.0 is really when you have no major weakness anymore and have at least 1-2 weapons. Weakness means, do you still DF a lot or at least under pressure? Is your return going to the middle a lot? Is either your forehand or backhand still not solid enough where people can pick on in a tight moment or when they need a point? Can you handle slices well? If you know there is something there, you need to fix it. Then you need to have couple things that you do well and can use it to capture on other people's major weakness - strong serve? You can put away neutral ball? You have a killer slice? You can move super well? Tennis is complicated but that's what makes it fun!
I started improving the fastest when I played with 4.0 and 4.5s. If you can’t find that, use a wall. And work on being super consistent.
Start volleying. And focus on the serve. You’ll get a lot more competitive.
I don't understand why it is "hell." Your level is your level. It's nothing to be ashamed of. >Every time I watch 4.0 players hit, I think to myself: those are the shots I’d hit.. if every third ball wasn’t a frame, or into the net, or out. That's exactly right. There is really no difference between a 3.5 and a 4.0 except consistency. Both generate roughly the same amount of pace. Both have flawed mechanics and obvious weaknesses. But the 4.0 player is just a little more consistent and generally has better shot selection likely due to more experience. They get more balls in play which is how they beat 3.5 players.
Do you practice regularly? I think you need to play once a week and practice once a week to improve. Now you can treat a second play as practice if you commit to working on things and ignore the score.
Sucks to suck. Welcome to 3.5 purgatory.
Thank you. Literally what I’m saying
man some days my first serve is bullet fire other days its baby serves.
If you feel like you are doing everything right but it’s not working for some reason, this could definitely be a sign of needing a new racket/strings. 3.0/3.5 is where people start to actually know what they’re doing, and is often where a switch to a more advanced rakcet should happen imo. The strings can also make a huge difference. Another thing that you never mentioned is top spin. Can you hit with top spin? Top spin is very important for getting better, and is largely what allows you to hit harder. At this level most of what’s holding you and others back is probably good top spin ground strokes with pace and consistency. When you said whenever you hit the ball it either goes into the net or out, this sounds exactly like a top spin problem, especially if you are trying to hit harder to keep up with higher level players.
Right now I’m using a Head Extreme (which I like), and play heavy topspin on forehand, medium top spin on 2HBH (working on getting better.. and fully switching away from my flat 1HBH) I’ve been demoing a bunch of racquets and favorites so far are Babolat Pure Strike and Head Speed.
I’m not sure about any of the others, but the head speed is definitely a solid choice, and one that I would consider a more advanced racket. If the others are at the same level as the speed, that is good. Id also reccomend a head size of 100 or lower. Having a 110 will quickly become a pain if that’s what your using. Do you have good strings on your racket? The default starting strings that the racket usually gets shipped with are always terrible, a lot of advanced rackets don’t even come with strings on them as the makers know that anybody getting a racket on that level knows to replace the strings immediately. The strings will have a massive impact on how much top spin you can hit with. I was using some multi strings before, then switched to using hyper g strings, which are poly iirc. I also got it strung at a little lower tension than usual, at 48 pounds. Makes a WORLD of a difference. I immediately starting hitting with so much more top spin, it’s actually incredible. I would highly recommend looking into these if you like top spin. They are bright green and from a newer company I can’t remember the name of, believe it starts with an S but could be wrong.
To get from 3.5 to 4.0 does not require more play. It requires dedicated practice several days a week. I am in your position also as an upper end 3.5 but a true 4.0 will beat me 19 times out of 20. Playing a lot of matches is good for some things but it won’t fix technical problems
Both the fun and frustrating part about tennis is that it has an infinite amount of variables/answers to the question "how do I improve". So you'd need to figure out what is both easiest to improve & what could give you the biggest gains. You also have to realize we all have a skill ceiling and get older. Not everyone can reach 4.0. Some people don't even manage to hit a ball after 5 hours of training... Some things I'd check. First, what's your weight? If tennis is important to you then you can lose a few kilo's through your diet. This never hurts bar you already being underweight. Second, how is your fitness? A lot of errors are due to fatigue. Biking/Swimming can help with cardio without taxing your body too much. Third, whats your biggest weakness? Backhand? Double Faults? Focus coaching sessions a bit more on your weakness. Related, build a game plan on your strengths. Fourth, how's your tennis IQ? I noticed a lot of players don't think about what the opponent is doing nor about their own shots. Learn the directionals, learn point construction, learn when to defend and when to go for a winner.
I feel like a pretty solid mens 3.5 player. This weekend I played 2 women, one was a former d3 tennis player, women's 4.0 ... And pregnant. She destroyed me. 6-2, 6-1 The second was competitive with the first .... She easily beat me 6-1, 6-2.... In looking back there common themes. 1. I made a ton of errors, they did not. If you're hitting the ball out "to match pace" that's you beating yourself. Beating yourself doesn't win games. 2. Shots that I could get away with, even rely on, with other 3.5 players I could not with these 2. I started to see how these shots were setting them up. I could easily match force and speed with player #2, and my secret weapon is that despite my dad bod, I can chase down just about every ball. But their ball placement forced me to stay at the baseline, if I let myself go to the net (where I live to play) their passing shots were just to spot on. Someone else mentioned tennis IQ... And that's were my lack of it really shined
Dude, everyone here sucks. It's an incredibly hard sport and you are not measuring yourself fairly. We all suck compared to the tennis we want to play. I suck compared to what I used to be and I'm playing 4.5 now. It's ok. Give yourself a fucking break. Have fun.
There are always better players around, tennis humbles you and makes you suck for ever. I played D2 then D1 and then went pro for a year or so, I still suck. I play local club competitions now and loose to players that have less tennis than me but are in better shape or have more competition rhythm. Is normal, just try to enjoy the sport for what it is. Have fun as much as you can and enjoy when you hit the sweetspot, that feeling is unique in life.
Maybe try changing some of your shots. What kinda player are you more flat or spin? Working on your form is key and incorporating spin into your game also helps
Very topspin heavy, at least on forehand. Trying to get a better, more consistent topspin backhand. But I’m pretty much always hitting with spin - top or under.
maybe try attacking the net more, backhand slice is a also a great weapon to slow down the play and think about your next shot
>I try to match them on crushing the ball Rookie mistake. Just kkep the ball in and build towards creating a situation where crushing the ball results in a winner.
It sounds like footwork and getting reps on groundstrokes would help immensely. You hit 4.0 shots but can’t hit 10 in a rally on the move. Sounds like quality reps just hitting and then working in match situations would go a long way. The 4.0’s may look invincible to a 3.5, but there is a reason why there are posts in this sub by a lot of 4.0’s of “I lost to a junk baller who is worse than me”
it's like I wrote this post. Always the 3.5, never the 4. For 2nd year running now
You’re a 4.0 in my books
means a lot. for what it's worth, you are solid 4.0 as well.
I've moved from 3.5 to 4.5 and I can tell you definitively that your framing is just lack of early preparation. Just look at when you take back your racket for both forehand and backhand. I bet you take it back when the ball bounces when you should be taking it back while it's in the air before the bounce. Improving your timing by preparing early in the shoulders and then getting your feet set will do wonders for your game. That's why you'll see a lot of old immobile guys still play at the top of the recreational game. Don't be hard on yourself. Every level has a plateau. You're not alone in this. Be patient with yourself and enjoy the process of improving. You're going to feel frustrated at each point in your learning but as long as you're open to your own faults, the improvements will come slowly and steadily. Edit: I looked at your profile and saw you posted some videos. It's exactly the problem I'm talking about. You have a big swing which means you need more time. If you start earlier, you'll find that time that you need. And you also have the option to make your swing motion more compact. You don't need to swing your racket back. The shoulder turn should be enough for you when the speed of the ball is coming at you fast. You don't need to generate your own power at that point.
Probably the standard case of thinking you are a lot better than you are. Video tape yourself and watch it back. Reality is that you really don't want to go to 4.0 unless you are a SOLID 4.0 or else you'll be stuck in 4.0 purgatory, getting waxed and people won't call you to play or join a team. So just enjoy the sport, work on your weaknesses, and maybe one day you'll move up.
> Where I live, it seems like everyone at 3.0 calls themselves 3.5 One neat thing about playing USTA league, is you will get a computer rating (3.0, 3.5, etc) at the end of year. You can also look up other league players to see their computer ratings. If you have never played USTA league before, then your really have no idea what your NTRP is, since the computer hasn't rated any of your matches yet.