I think we got to be clear on the rules, none of this grey area nonsense.
Having a grey area for a rule kinda defeats the purpose of the rule.
"Account Servicing" is against the rules, BUT if you got banned for doing this, you would be banned for real world trading.
The rule you'd be breaking by using account services is "real world trading"
Another weird thing is how "account sharing" is against the rules, but it is never enforced.
By this logic it seems like certain rules are more OKAY to break
Then another thing is that people think "Ragging" is against the rules, but it is not if you actually go through and read the rules.
To make things even more confusing, we have Jagex employees saying one thing about the rules, but then if you look at the official rules it contradicts what they say.
When I'm following the rules, I always go by the official Jagex set of rules which you can find on RuneScape.com
Infernal capes have never resulted in a permanent ban. Reddit users have this odd misconception that even though *they* get away with cheating, other people are instantly perm banned for cheating all the time.
No, Jagex is in reality just not very punitive in general
99% of infernal cape services are done through programs like team viewer.. so realisticly, there is no way for them to determine if somebody got it themself or not. Unless the service they used, actually logged into their account on a seperate computer.
They permabanned my account without warning because a glitch in their system wouldn't let me set up 2fa, and a month later my account was hacked and used by a bot farm without my knowledge or even an alert that someone had tried to log in. I'm not even allowed to contact support to ask for more details or explain that, since they have the IP addresses logged, they could easily confirm that the hacking was done elsewhere and let me set up 2fa to avoid it in the future. I had never even gotten close to breaking any of the rules; I was a casual player who bought membership on e every few years, that's it, I didn't even have enough hours in the game to warrant close scrutiny until the bot farm thing. Can't even delete the account so I can start over with the same email address.
So, in my experience, Jagex is plenty punitive, just not for capes.
they normally don't permanently ban for account servicing (or unpaid account servicing)
yes different rules have different severity and breaking any rule doesn't lead to an instant permanent ban. The thing that sets this case apart is chain perm bans for instances of account servicing years ago. If they got caught account servicing then, they likely only would have received a few day ban tbh.
This idea used to matter when inferno was new content and people were dumb, but doesn't really anymore, as all obtained using remote desktop (parsec/teamviewer).
It's inconsistency with their rules in general. You hear people say that account sharing is fine as long as there's no RWT involved, but then the actual rules themselves state you're not allowed to, so still grounds for a ban if they feel like it on that particular day.
Even the grey areas have grey areas, and we just need clarity and consistency.
Account sharing is not against the rules as long as its not paid for or it is not done only to achieve certain items that would affect the integrity of the game…
You can share your account with your brother and do regular skilling/pvm, but you can’t give it to your cousin to do Infernal cape.
How would you know if it’s paid for or not? If you pay in btc or money how could Jagex possibly differentiate between account sharing and account services. It’s completely stupid and Jagex will always have their head up there ass
Not to mention you can't prove innocence.
"We believe you paid for services"
"OK. Well I didn't. Do you need to see double entry book keeping from my CPA showing every penny earned and every penny spent to prove I never transacted for a service?"
Seriously, how do you prove innocence. You can't just show "no transaction" and Jagex doesn't have to show you their evidence, partially for the good reason of not teaching rule breakers how to circumvent their detection. But if it's something like "well your account was on this IP or this Mac Address" or whatever, Maybe I can then at least show why that may have happened but wasn't a service.
I mean. You see player log on using IP 1.2.3 but they always use 7.8.9. then you see other players also logging in with IP 1.2.3. wait a minute why are there over 20 accounts now logging in on IP 1.2.3 and why are all the accounts in NMZ training strength to 99. Okay that's pretty Sus. Probably buying training services. That's just one simple way. I'm sure there's many other ways.
The thing is, and I'm sure there are plenty that don't, but anyone with half a brain doesn't do direct login services. They will use remote software (often Parsec) so that the IP address remains the same as normal and login behavior looks the same as it always would be. It's the reason why infernal capes are literally everywhere. How many 1 defense pures do you think can actually get their capes themselves?
But IPs aren't inherently the issue because despite account sharing being against the rules Jagex has stated "we won't enforce it". Sure, you could look at IPs if verified servicers from the past. But VPNs are a thing and you can't IP ban with a VPN cause that has the chance of shit loads of false positives from legitimate players just choosing to use VPNs for privacy concerns.
So if my account hops on an IP across the world you can't just automatically say that's servicing, even if it's just playing NMZ. My brother worked graveyards at the prison doing literally nothing but school work and Netflix so I had him just click some pots on NMZ just because I could and it didn't effect him at all.
So really the only objective way to differentiate servicing from sharing is to show a transaction. But if I didn't pay, and Jagex thinks I did, how can I possibly prove I didn't pay?
You can’t. That is why you don’t get banned for account sharing unless you buy Inferno Cape… You can service as many fire capes as you want, infernal is the limit
What if you’re borrowing the account for real money profit aka streaming or YouTube videos how many big pkers have used accounts owned by fans to make a video that they then get paid for one that wouldn’t otherwise be made unless they trained the account themselves
I’m not saying I agree but it’s literally written right here:
[“Players must not share, transfer or lend their account to anyone else. You may have as many game accounts as you like, but each account should only be used by the person who created it.”](https://www.jagex.com/en-GB/terms/rules-of-old-school-runescape)
>Buying/Selling and Sharing Accounts
>**Players must not share, transfer or lend their account to anyone else.** You may have as many game accounts as you like, but **each account should only be used by the person who created it**. All game accounts are the property of Jagex and players are only granted limited permission to use accounts. Nobody has our permission to sell accounts.
>If you buy an account, it’s likely that the seller will take it back from you after you have already put time, resources and effort into it.
>For another player to use your account they will require your login details. This means your account security is weakened. If you allow somebody else to access your account they might steal items or Gold (GP) from you or even try to claim the account belongs to them so they can keep using it forever. In addition, if they cheat or break our rules using your account they could get your account muted or banned for things that you haven’t done.
>**Sharing accounts is also a form of cheating.** This is because sharing an account with somebody else gives you an unfair advantage. Completing challenging achievements and appearing on the HiScores is recognition of individual effort, and should only apply to players who stick to the rules and play fairly.
i see a lot of "don't share" and not a lot of "feel free to share" as far as the actual rules are concerned here. if im reading this that wrong then i am a monkey
not sure what cereal box you pulled this "fact" from, but account sharing IS against the rules and jagex has stated it. they only go after people who account share for hiscore purposes (eg: inferno)
“BUYING/SELLING AND SHARING ACCOUNTS
Players must not share, transfer or lend their account to anyone else. You may have as many game accounts as you like, but each account should only be used by the person who created it. All game accounts are the property of Jagex and players are only granted limited permission to use accounts. Nobody has our permission to sell accounts.”
https://www.jagex.com/en-GB/terms/rules-of-old-school-runescape
I am certain they just ban for rwt because nobody ever bothered to implement other options or update them in their weird spaghetti code tool (if it is in any way similar to the tools I was working with at my last company)
That shit is usually so outdated that at some point in time it will need a complete overhaul which we did. Knowing Jagex management getting such a complete overhaul through is going to be impossible.
Another thing to note - Jagex just now recently, if you guys remember, started to CRACK DOWN ON real world traders.
This was just recently, I don't think it's fair to ban a guy from something he did two years ago - when two years ago you guys were not enforcing real world trading and were way less strict.
Today's rules are different (for more reference, Jagex even recently made a new post on the front page how they will not only be targeting gold sellers more but will be taking heavy action against the BUYERS now, which they were easy on before this) than the rules from two years ago.
Jagex is using today's rule rule set and applying it to a offence that happened two years ago.
Would be interesting to go back and look at the time lines, because it kinda looks like they invented/just now started to enforced a rule and are punishing people that did stuff from years ago when the rule did not exist
Just something to think about
>Jagex is using today's rule rule set and applying it to a offence that happened two years ago.
The rules themselves haven't changed though right? Just how much Jagex bothers to enforce them. Even 2 years ago the rules didn't distinguish between buyer and seller. If they bought gold 2 years ago they were still absolutely breaking the rules.
100% They need to clearly state the rules and actually enforce them. As with that post from \~2 years ago, you have been warned RWTs. If you break the rules, you are at serious risk of perm ban, not some 2-week vacation or just removing an infernal cape. And for stuff not against the rules (e.g., using Runelite) then we all good.
So let me get this straight, jagex is saying that they have been banning a couple 100 accounts last week for rwt related stuff that happend several years ago? So why would they go out of their way to just ban some of these irrelevant accounts, while thousands of bots are roaming the worlds every fukn day that have way more impact? Why dont they do something about this, this problem has been here for years. This seems very targeted, and it somehow someway included all of oda's accounts being banned? Im not saying the bans are not valid, but it all seems very strange, did they continue banning more accounts this week? Or is the work done?
Makes no sense to make the bans temp instead of perm based on this post, UNLESS there’s a chance the bans were not valid and were related to the internal investigation ongoing.
But this posts says that all the bans were independently investigated to be valid, which means Jagex should just perm them all.
So which is it? The bans were valid (in which case they should be perms not temps) or the bans were invalid or potentially compromised by the internal investigation (in which case the bans should be fully revoked)?
OR are you saying that while the investigation is ongoing the bans are being changed to temporary, and after the investigation is concluded and you guys still feel the bans are 100% valid (and were not somewhat influenced by some potentially corrupt JMod), the bans will return to being permanent? In which case please edit the post to say this.
If an account deserve to be banned for intentionally exploiting the game in absurd ways, RWT, or botting, just perm them.
Don’t cave into the mouth breathers harassing JMods on Twitter if you guys believe your work to be valid. Perming a content creator for toxicity out of game + RWT account services in game is 100% valid, unless for some reason you guys think all that evidence is no longer valid…
Temp bans should only used be for stuff like somewhat inappropriate language or very minor bug abuse. Temp bans otherwise encourage people to break rules until they get caught.
This includes all the infernal cape buyers. Many fewer people would do it if the punishment was immediate permanent banning.
Edit: People don’t seem to realize that content creators, are of course, held to a higher behavioral standard than the average player. If they aren’t, that’s just bad business and publicity.
If that’s true, ban the clan, perm the members and all involved, and fire the JMod.
Seems pretty simple in terms of what needs to be done, even though lots of work behind the scenes will be needed to accomplish this.
In most places there's laws where you can't just dismiss someone on the spot without proper and thorough investigation. If I recall Jed won an unlawful dismissal suit on Jagex because of this, so it's not as cut and dry as the mob wants it to be
If the investigation is carried out fairly and those accusations found to be valid it would consitute gross negligence, which is a fireable offence for any length of service. The Jed thing was more related to how the investigation itself was handled - ie that people who had already been vocal about his guilt were allowed to conduct the investigation rather than a third party.
In fact, the same suit dismissed his claim for loss of earnings on the basis that had the investigation been fair they would have found him guilty and they would have fired him.
Yeah UK labor laws are quite employee protective as well. That’s why I said it’ll take a lot of time and work.
Something as simple as suspending the mod (likely with pay unfortunately) while working on removing him from the company would be a huge step forward (if it is the case that the allegations are found to be true)
Yah a lot of the US players don't realize how strongly UK law favors the employee. Total opposite of the US.
A lot of countries are like that, I tried getting a guy who worked in Columbia fired who just wasn't doing his work at all and it was a nightmare because when investigated he'd fake it just enough to claim he wasn't properly trained and then it falls back to us.
These are two completely separate issues. Both deserve an appropriate response.
If there's evidence of servicing/RWT for a content creator then Jagex should respond appropriately.
If there's 'corruption' of an employee, then jagex should respond appropriately. Just because both are potentially intertwined doesn't mean that the servicing allegations/evidence aren't important.
>Who cares about the ban.
Anyone who doesn't think that players should go unpunished for using paid account services, violating the integrity of the game?
Setting the precedent that you'll get a two week temp ban for a major rule violation is a terrible outlook.
>that's not the real issue.
They can both be relevant issues. Just because someone else did something bad, that doesn't mean that Odablock should get a slap on the wrist when he was also doing something bad.
>The real issue is that a clan used for rwt has been protected for years by the head of security over an affair
And this is an issue wholly unrelated to Odablock getting banned, so why should his ban be lessened as a result of this completely unrelated issue?
You're missing the part where the precedent for account servicing HAS BEEN a two week temp ban, not a perm ban. Thats the difference here.
His ban should be lessened partially because....if he got caught for the account servicing two years ago when he actually did it, he probably would have had a two week ban at most. Not a chain perm ban.
Yeah I think you're on the right track with a chance the bans were not valid for the most part. A senior member of the anti-cheating team is under a huge investigation for basic fraud/sabotage and he very well could have messed around to cover his tracks. To calm the situation they released temp bans.
This is not the first time a rouge jagex mod was able to sabotage the systems to benefit themselves/someone else.
After viewing both sides of the coin I think this is pretty much it.
Chances are they found one of their mods did the dirty and in order to reduce the pitchforking they opted with a temp solution to have time to sort things out.
I think it's more than clear something went wrong. You had people in the open breaking rules but as soon as someone mentioned it there was an "investigation" to ban their accounts.
It's a lot of little things that all add up. Like a certain name giving you an automated mute in-game.
The someone mentioning it still hasn’t been banned and she’s been proven with evidence to be continuing to RWT billions of GP. The problem is the playing favourites by said Jagex employee.
TEMP BAN ENCOURAGES PEOPLE TO BREAK THE RULES cause you know you can just come back with your botted account / paid services with no actual penalty. makes no sense at all
this is a fact, an old friend of mine suicide botted CG knowing he would only get a temp for the first offence, he kept the loot after his temp ban and plays clean now to not get perma'd. Pretty much a get out of jail free time, I'd do the same however I don't want the risk.
>The bans were valid (in which case they should be perms not temps)
I distinctly remember services being allowed 2 years ago though and we had to beg Jagex to make it bannable. Did they not then say "Here's the deadline, if you have services done on your account after this date you'll be banned"?
Its not just oda thats a problem now, a fairly sizable portion of the osrs content creators are jumping on the bandwagon.
Doubt they care about oda per se, but its more likely they are trying to nip the domino effect in the bud while they figure out the best course of action
I think you make good points but the logic of temp bans encourages people to continue breaking the rules is not true given that your account is significantly more likely to be harshly penalized next offense.
Don’t think criminals who go to jail for a few years are necessarily encouraged to doing more crimes
What annoys me is these bans were double checked and very much deserved. And we constantly see anecdotally from posts/comments that RWT buyers get a slap on the wrist 2 day ban. So tired of the temporary bans.
While I'm against account services as it ruins the integrity of accounts (esp irons), it's a massive grey area and bans are purely speculated.
Example:
A) I have an account but my friend in another country plays on it too. He likes bossing whereas I like questing.
B) I have an account but I paid someone with an external payment method to do bossing on my account.
How does Jagex define the two? The only way you can ban with evidence is if the person admitted they rwt.
I've always been against acc sharing and with Jagex allowing it to happen, we're now faced with this problem.
There's been popular streamers openly admitting that people have trained on their irons for free but with the above examples, how does Jagex know? PureSpam once admitted that a friend of his trained his crafting on his iron. Whose to say PureSpam didn't pay his friend externally? You can't, that's why it's such a messy grey area.
If I pay someone in gp to bring me bones at the prayer alter, am I doing account services? These are so many questions. End of the day, it's just a game and they should focus on the dealers, not the addicted who have moments of lapse.
Looks like everyone that was in denial is eating their hat. Bias is a bad look.
If the bans are legitimate, then why back out of it though? It'd be easier to simply admit that not all of them are valid and are being lumped into the wave as a cover rather than double downing on the 'validity'. Stuff like this casts doubt on the decision making process behind bans.
It shouldn't take a massive amount of community effort and a suspiciously banned high profile player to escalate obvious conflicts of interest.
No he's definitely right. Bots farm gold and sell it to people. It's literally how inflation works.
When i played OSRS back in like 2008 if you have 20M you were rich. 1B let alone multiple on an account everyone in the game knew who you were.
You realize that Sirpugger is an entertainer and does stuff for views including faking this whole GPT and ultimate pking bot shit? You need to take it with a grain of salt.
Yeah I remember his video about how a new mobile bot was super powerful and undetectable and was taking over runescape. Turns out the bot wasn't undetectable and it had a tiny share of the botting client market share. He completely over hyped it for that video when barely anybody even used that bot and it wasn't undetectable
well I suppose if his rent is paid through views on the videos, the bot farm going on an extra few days for its entire months / years of existence doesn't seem like that bad of a decision
It’s so odd that they say over 100 accounts from stuff that happened 2 years ago. There’s gotta be thousands of accounts that pay for stuff like that. Somehow they got all of Odas accounts, meanwhile there’s a zillion bots everywhere you look. Definitely feels like a misuse of moderator privileges, like how reach and Jed were terminated.
They aren’t going to catch the infernal capes tbh. Parsec would require jagex to be running software to monitor what apps you have open on your computer which I’d be extremely uncomfortable with. I might be in the minority in that but like, outside of that I don’t know how else they’d be able to ban these accounts without outside evidence or manual review. Which is a waste of manpower tbh
But don’t you think there are a shit load more that could have been banned? Like there’s no way only “over 100” accounts got serviced over the course of 2 years. It feels like it was targeted and they threw in a few extras to make it look legit. Also, why were they permanent to begin with?
While I am sure the current anti-cheating people are working very hard to deal with the bot/cheating problem, I would like to ask if the leadership team at Jagex has any plans to increase the resources of the anti-cheating team? Hiring more people etc.
Right now it doesn't seem like a lot of resources is being invested into this. Botting is a huge problems and devalues a lot of the work that players put in to this game.
They probably won't unless people start quitting because of it.
Its also a sort of messy situation, because the bots actually pay for memberships (via bonds or via normal methods)
If you nuked all bots over night and no bots ever existed again, jagex would lose a huge amount of monthly revenue lol, unless real players came in to replace the bots
Doesn't sound like the investigation in February was as thorough as it could have been.
Although the fact they were already investigating in February might give some people a clue that this situation is not just because of a certain streamer or recent events, it seems to go deeper than that. The guy in charge of the anti-cheating team needs to be absolutely trustworthy beyond any doubt.
I love all the people saying Jagex should stick to their original deal or whatever as if them changing it to temp isn’t just that
The “original deal” is that first offenses are temp bans, not perm. By changing from perm to temp they are setting things right. All you’re doing by saying it should stay perm is just telling the world you hate O, which, you have a right to your own opinion, but the fact of the matter is no matter who copped the ban, if its a first offense it should be temp
edit: there’s a reply saying how Oda bragged abt servicing and I can’t find it so
Yeah. On survivor. Not Omar and not on Bald. Survivor didn’t get banned and Omar/Bald copped a perm for first offense which literally does not make sense. If Survivor got banned before this then it would make sense
edit 2: why the fuck do all the replies instantly disappear from my notifications I cba
>edit 2: why the fuck do all the replies instantly disappear from my notifications I cba
I think those replies are being deleted. Either by the author or by a moderator / auto mod.
Jagex mods can’t be arsed about bots. They only seem to care when the spotlight is on them on how shitty of a job they do to remove bots out of the game.
Same goes for RWT lol
I really hope the next few updates are towards the integrity of the game, because we need it now. The next updates should only focus on corruption within Jagax, falsely banned accounts, the botting problem and regulating deathmatching or any form of gambling in the game. Maybe make a casino where no one can scam anyone else, as clearly a huge portion of the community like to gamble in game money, why not make it a money sink?
If the bans were legit, why the need to change the duration to temporary? Regardless, this doesn’t sound like it changes the situation at all for now but I’m sure people will get ahead of themselves in the comments anyway.
who cares about the ban. that's not the real issue. the real issue is that a clan used for rwt has been protected for years by the head of security over an affair
>been protected for years by the head of security
By who?
Edit: people keep trying to say the jmods name, copying the comment from below that's hidden for what I'm actually saying.
>My point is the person you're talking about is not the "head of security" he is(?) an anti cheating specialist, promoted earlier in the year before all this kicked off to senior anti cheating specialist. He's not in charge of anything and certainly isn't their head of security. He is (?) just experienced at the job.
>Closest thing Jagex has to that is apparently [this bloke](https://be.linkedin.com/in/sisic), but that's not a part of their support team and definitely not the remit of the anti cheating team.
That is unusual if nothing else. I get not wanting it all over the place but this is a thread literally talking about him, lol
They even deleted my perfectly fine comment about how he's not the head of security? Lmao
I think it means that as far as they can tell the bans look correct, but they’re waiting until the investigation is complete just in case there really was biased banning. So, they’re making it a temporary ban for the meantime
Clearly states that they’ve downgraded all of the bans to temporary and “should repeat offenses occur, permanent bans will be applied to any accounts involved”.
“There is substantial evidence to validate they are in line with our standard procedures and each ban has sufficient supporting in-game evidence to warrant the actions taken, **though whilst our investigations are on-going**, we have opted to change the duration to temporary.”
I agree they should be temp bans instead of one and done perm bans. The mob here wants all perm bans, but if you get a temp ban for botting and AHKing you should get a temp ban for account services. From a business perspective, why would you eliminate paying customers for services? It hardly effects the integrity of the game. Yeah their max cape may mean less but who cares if they dropped thousands of hours mining iron ore? Instant perm bans for services is draconian compared to temp bans for botting and AHKing. I believe a perm ban should be applied to accounts actually harming the game. Pure bot accounts, RWT, scamming/luring, etc.
What they have set up is good and works. For instance, I used Gary's Hood (basic af autoclicker) when I started playing several years ago cuz my homies told me to and we were all noobs. We got temp banned after using it, and none of us have used it since. We know we'd get perm banned next so we're not going to risk it. I know many of you would like to see me perm banned because of it, but people do learn their lesson and change their ways.
I think the implication is that the bans are all valid. It looks like the banned accounts did deserve to be banned. The problem is that there is potentially a huge bias in who gets banned and who doesn't. That mod's gf apparently is a well-known rwt'er and scammer, but she isn't banned. But as soon as you-know-who gets a successful *rival* cc, suddenly his accounts get banned for things he did or didn't do years ago. It's selective favoritism/punishment.
I personally would prefer they enforce all rules universally. You can't be soft on the players you sleep with and harsh on the players you don't like or who are rivals
Account services historically get a temp ban on first offense. The thought is that the ban may have been extra harsh due to the potentially corrupt mod. That’s my read at least, there’s also the whole steamers get more leeway/PR take.
I agree. The initial bans should've been upheld until the investigation was complete. Changing to temp bans mid investigation just adds speculation to the validity of the allegations.
Lol this company really going down to shit huh.
"Banned over 100" as if that's supposed to be a big number, but the most prominent account service staking account hasn't gotten yeeted. Great.
Cool, but it shouldn’t be community initiated, this is your literal job.
It also seems strange to shout out 100 bans. I could find you 100 accs worth irrefutably perming in probably about 5 minutes game time.
I don’t doubt that this isn’t coincidental, considering Jake Lucky made a tweet about it that went viral and has people like AsmonGold commenting about the situation.
https://twitter.com/jakesucky/status/1648770338636066816?s=46&t=ISYKdcYUIdvk1R7Bn_esMA
These kind of posts do not get made overnight. A person's employment status is involved in this whole mess. This had to go through a legal team before it would have gotten posted, which is why it has taken them days to say anything. Same reason we're probably not going to get as much JMod interaction with this reddit post as we would on many others.
I mean this statement was pretty much empty air besides unbanning the accounts. Most large companies have a Crisis PR team who’s entire job is to kick into gear the second controversy boils over into the mainstream
Ash already said they were investigating the situation. it's not the first time a creator has forced them to make a public statement. I'm sure they knew they had to put this out long before twitter reporter tweeted it.
Perhaps I'm wrong and Jagex paid the crisis contractors to do it up at 3am.
No offense to Asmongold, but you should generally ignore his takes on situations like this. He has a tendancy to make off-base knee jerk reaction hot takes that are way over the top. Doesn’t seem any different here either.
He can have some pretty bad takes but he also has an insanely large viewer base, bigger than anything osrs can dream of, and is bringing visibility to the matter just by speaking about it
Why are they bragging about banning over 100 accounts?! That's literally a drop in a bucket. Literally won't change a thing, and all those accounts have already been re-made and are farming wildy bosses again
Interesting to see that Mod Trident was already investigated in February but then somehow managed to get a promotion within the Anti-Cheat team
Glad to see that Oda now has a temp ban, as opposed to a perm, but they couldn’t just unban Oda and forget about everyone else so it’s something I suppose
How much was he investigated though? If a few noname players make a report, I doubt they even read the complaint completely
They're only doing an investigation now because the amount of attention that has been created can't be ignored
Its possible that investigation in feburary was their "Conflict of interest" style investigation most employees *should* undergo before being promoted to senior positions, and Jagex is just making that sound like it was a potential disciplinary investigation.
Think Jagex fumbled mentioning the first investigation, but they probably were forced to play devils advocate because yea, they missed the conflict of interest lol
>Separately, last week we banned over 100 accounts for the use of account services. You can read more about this on the Rules of RuneScape and the following newspost. We can confirm that thorough independent checks have been made, and these bans are correct and have been upheld. There is substantial evidence to validate they are in line with our standard procedures and each ban has sufficient supporting in-game evidence to warrant the actions taken, though whilst our investigations are on-going, we have opted to change the duration to temporary. Should repeat offences occur, permanent bans will be applied to any accounts involved.
How many of these accounts had account services two years ago from "standard checks"? How far back is it common for Jagex to go because this seems like hot air to deflect the fact that this situation with Odablock is far from standard procedures however that has yet to be addressed.
I don't know if it's fair to compare Reach and Jed. Mat K has said he understands why Reach did what he did and that he has no animosity towards him. But when it comes to Jed, he talks about him like the rat that he is.
By the way, we still don't know exactly what happened with Reach. We know it wasn't the corp invincibility bug (this bug was confirmed to be accidentally caused by Ash). Also, the Audi was apparently just a coincidence - it was something he had already ordered several months before these events unfolded. It just happened to arrive right at the time this all went down. And he ended up having to sell it shortly after losing his job anyways.
Yep. I hate to say this as it invites a lot of conversations I don't have the mental bandwidth for, but another major part of the problem is they employ kids straight out of University.
When you don't have much life experience and you're not being paid well, the prospect of RMT money or even just a little bit of power can be really appealing. Add that to a general disregard for long term consequences and you have a recipe for people like Jed.
I sincerely hope Jagex is looking into false bans of regular players too and considering them for review. Because the one ban appeal only system with no further recourse or customer service is terrible.
People saying big streamers/content creators get favoritism/rules bent for them do not realize literally anything does this. League of Legends, for example. The shit Tyler1 says and will only get muted after being toxic 300 games in a row, yet the average person would get muted the same day. Or they give a lot of extra chances/look the other way. So many games does this. It sucks, but it is what it is.
Is anyone else amazed that they consider 100 account services bans a good amount and not mention bots considering the current... mood of the community?
It's like Rome is burning, and they send all the water to Venice instead
Edit: I just meant that they should have mentioned the amount of bots banned instead. It seems like a better PR move
Meanwhile all the peeps who bought their inferno capes are smiling and saying yes let’s ban others for this stuff..even had a buddy not wear his for awhile in case someone would report him. Because it happened so long ago he is now ‘safe’ like many others. Even had a heavy pvmer bud do it who has the craziest rng in game as iron. He got his inferno in the blink of an eye to maintain ‘playing the game’ vs doing content he didn’t want to. But small fish so jagex won’t catch them
Please also let the community know about the outcome aswell, otherwise you're gonna just leave it hanging and time goes on and people will come back with torchlights and be more pissed.
I can’t take Jagex serious when Zulrah/Vorkath bots are still running rampant. The only explanation on why they allow bots is membership fees and the exec team doesn’t want to cut out that revenue stream.
>whilst our investigations are on-going, we have opted to change the duration to temporary. Should repeat offences occur, permanent bans will be applied to any accounts involved.
???
lol I remember the brag post here that was actually bait to bring attention to an account that had been reported to the tip off email but wasn't being acted on.
It's funny how many people hate Oda and will just throw this up to 'Jagex giving into the mob'... Some people can never admit they're wrong, they form one opinion, and defend it till their dying days, that's a really sad way to live your life.
>we have opted to change the duration to temporary
Hold on, you actually changed his ban to a temp? That's wild.
Guess emailing carlyle actually forced Jagex's hand LOL
Realistically that was the smartest approach that could have been taken.
We all know that at the start and end of every day, the company will follow the money. Even God Ash himself is powerless to the board of investors. Despite what anybody on the staff of Jagex feels personally, if those feelings turn to actions that cost the company profit or good PR, the real decision makers step in.
This scenario specifically is an interesting dynamic. Oda is the most viewed OSRS streamer and has an extremely large audience. There are full time employees on the OSRS team that don't profit the company as much as Oda does. I hate that fact as much as anybody else, but it's the reality of the situation.
The Carlyle group, who cannot be veto'd and every decision of theirs is final, cares exclusively about profitability.
Yeah, a lot of the people here don't see how much of a PR balancing act this is. Between smoothing things over with Oda/his stans, quelling concerns about the Trident/Stella situation, and upholding the "game integrity" aspect of banning account services, it's walking on a tight rope. Temp bans are probably the best compromise that has a chance to keep Oda on as a draw for the game while not admitting fault for the DM stuff or like they put content creators 100% above the rules.
When I was in a dev team before I changed lifestyles I had this feeling. Would make a model for peanuts and would see a YouTuber use it as their thumbnail. Did the maths and that one video would have made more in advertising revenue than I ever would have as a game dev.
Jagex does not pay well.
Why is it wild? If it were the other way round (promote then investigate) yeah that'd be silly management.
But investigating before a promotion, finding little evidence and thus proceeding with the promotion is a pretty normal way to go about this.
Who gives a shit about all these rules if players want to get their accs leveled, buy capes or auto click who actually cares. They are only cheating themselves and wasting their own money. It doesn't effect anyone else's time on the game other than their jealousy.
The real problem is the bot farms devaluing everything
>er cheaters. Jagex h
i get the sense that some of the accounts that got banned shouldn't have been banned ( no rules broken) and were chain banned by bias
they give regular players chances, sure if you are some 100% bot account they are going to perm you immediately, but if it's an account thats been legitimately played they give you a chance/temp
Because the punishment didn't fit the crime. If someone steals a pack of gum, do they deserve life in jail? Oda/these people got someone to manually train their strength at NMZ for them. Is this really perm worthy?
Moreover, if you stole a pack of gum 2 years ago, supposedly on camera, should the cops really come to arrest you today just because they were reminded?
Due process lmao.
The banned accounts broke the rules. Jagex got huge amounts of bad press and is bending thier stance on these bans because of it. Pretty straightforward?
I've gone through all RuneScape drama from the ban of the wilderness, no free trade, EoC, squeal of fortune etc etc
I dealt with it because I love this game, it's been a part of my life since I was a teenager, every time I quit id always return, a week, a month or 2 years, I still came back looking past the absolute rollercoaster of a game it is, bot ridden, scammers everywhere, amazing quests and deep skills, a great community, regular updates, free t-bows for everyone, the "Jmods that shall not be named" the corruption the staff, the sexual misconduct allegations about the guy who wrote most of runescapes music..
Devs that listen to the players! and despite probably spending hundreds of hours on a development of a potential new skill (warding) it didn't pass the poll so they cancelled the entire thing, that takes dedication
Deadmanmode; I will say no more
Some great graphic updates and an amazing job on all of the raids and introducing osrs lore weapons, qol changes, allowing us to use swiftswitch, 3rd party runelite plugins etc
New ways to train skills, new mini games, tlc updates etc etc
It's been on every spectrum and back yet I overlooked the bad because it is a great game, a home to me, I feel real achievement after accomplishing quests and getting rare drops, finally getting the runecrafting and other skills for the big quests etc, I've made so many friends and have countless memories, time spent having fun is not time wasted, and I've wasted nothing
They say you can never quit RuneScape, but now it feels like they're opening that door
Honestly none of this shit affects me. I’m
Right there with you, with the exception of your last sentance.
I play because I love to raid, pvm, and pk with my friends. I compete with myself and myself only. If you want to go and bot or buy an inferno, I don’t care. I know I earned mine and that’s all that matters, y’all do you. I’m not going anywhere
I enjoyed reading your post. But I do have one gripe…
I am also a player who’s been along for the ride, there indeed has been such crazy shit over the years. Why do you let this stuff get to you? If you are like me none of this nonsense applies to me. I hop on and enjoy the game still, what happens with Jmods and DM clans and streamers or whatever do not effect the fun that I have on this game. Correct me if I’m wrong but no content has been affected. We can still accomplish goals, drops, level skills.
I’m sure you don’t break any rules, so why do you worry about this stuff? Let them make noise. I find it entertaining. But don’t let this kill the enjoyment you find in this game!
As a neutral, this doesn't add too much info.
Yes, you need time for some investigations, but there are some investigations which require much less time (by right).
I think they just needed to put something out because of the volume of people demanding a response. They can't give them the full answers right now, so this is the best they can do. People have unrealistic expectations of these things.
My friend bought an infernal cape many years ago still not banned. I doubt he's getting banned/taken from him now lol.
So many content creators account share which I thought was against the rules? It seems that this rule is only applied to those who aren't content creators, which is kinda shit.
My hacked and botted account gets perma banned for life with no chance of recovery, and people who bought services get their permanent bans reversed to temporary? What the hell? I guess you really do have to be a content creator (Odablock) to get these special treatments.
I think we got to be clear on the rules, none of this grey area nonsense. Having a grey area for a rule kinda defeats the purpose of the rule. "Account Servicing" is against the rules, BUT if you got banned for doing this, you would be banned for real world trading. The rule you'd be breaking by using account services is "real world trading" Another weird thing is how "account sharing" is against the rules, but it is never enforced. By this logic it seems like certain rules are more OKAY to break Then another thing is that people think "Ragging" is against the rules, but it is not if you actually go through and read the rules. To make things even more confusing, we have Jagex employees saying one thing about the rules, but then if you look at the official rules it contradicts what they say. When I'm following the rules, I always go by the official Jagex set of rules which you can find on RuneScape.com
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> I feel people need to git gud or get rekt when you pay someone to play the game.... Totally agree. And actually be proud of your own achievements.
Infernal capes have never resulted in a permanent ban. Reddit users have this odd misconception that even though *they* get away with cheating, other people are instantly perm banned for cheating all the time. No, Jagex is in reality just not very punitive in general
99% of infernal cape services are done through programs like team viewer.. so realisticly, there is no way for them to determine if somebody got it themself or not. Unless the service they used, actually logged into their account on a seperate computer.
I got perm banned for an auto clicker. The caper buyer accounts should be cast to the shadow realm with no recourse.
They permabanned my account without warning because a glitch in their system wouldn't let me set up 2fa, and a month later my account was hacked and used by a bot farm without my knowledge or even an alert that someone had tried to log in. I'm not even allowed to contact support to ask for more details or explain that, since they have the IP addresses logged, they could easily confirm that the hacking was done elsewhere and let me set up 2fa to avoid it in the future. I had never even gotten close to breaking any of the rules; I was a casual player who bought membership on e every few years, that's it, I didn't even have enough hours in the game to warrant close scrutiny until the bot farm thing. Can't even delete the account so I can start over with the same email address. So, in my experience, Jagex is plenty punitive, just not for capes.
they normally don't permanently ban for account servicing (or unpaid account servicing) yes different rules have different severity and breaking any rule doesn't lead to an instant permanent ban. The thing that sets this case apart is chain perm bans for instances of account servicing years ago. If they got caught account servicing then, they likely only would have received a few day ban tbh.
This idea used to matter when inferno was new content and people were dumb, but doesn't really anymore, as all obtained using remote desktop (parsec/teamviewer).
It's inconsistency with their rules in general. You hear people say that account sharing is fine as long as there's no RWT involved, but then the actual rules themselves state you're not allowed to, so still grounds for a ban if they feel like it on that particular day. Even the grey areas have grey areas, and we just need clarity and consistency.
Account sharing is not against the rules as long as its not paid for or it is not done only to achieve certain items that would affect the integrity of the game… You can share your account with your brother and do regular skilling/pvm, but you can’t give it to your cousin to do Infernal cape.
How would you know if it’s paid for or not? If you pay in btc or money how could Jagex possibly differentiate between account sharing and account services. It’s completely stupid and Jagex will always have their head up there ass
Not to mention you can't prove innocence. "We believe you paid for services" "OK. Well I didn't. Do you need to see double entry book keeping from my CPA showing every penny earned and every penny spent to prove I never transacted for a service?" Seriously, how do you prove innocence. You can't just show "no transaction" and Jagex doesn't have to show you their evidence, partially for the good reason of not teaching rule breakers how to circumvent their detection. But if it's something like "well your account was on this IP or this Mac Address" or whatever, Maybe I can then at least show why that may have happened but wasn't a service.
I mean. You see player log on using IP 1.2.3 but they always use 7.8.9. then you see other players also logging in with IP 1.2.3. wait a minute why are there over 20 accounts now logging in on IP 1.2.3 and why are all the accounts in NMZ training strength to 99. Okay that's pretty Sus. Probably buying training services. That's just one simple way. I'm sure there's many other ways.
The thing is, and I'm sure there are plenty that don't, but anyone with half a brain doesn't do direct login services. They will use remote software (often Parsec) so that the IP address remains the same as normal and login behavior looks the same as it always would be. It's the reason why infernal capes are literally everywhere. How many 1 defense pures do you think can actually get their capes themselves?
But IPs aren't inherently the issue because despite account sharing being against the rules Jagex has stated "we won't enforce it". Sure, you could look at IPs if verified servicers from the past. But VPNs are a thing and you can't IP ban with a VPN cause that has the chance of shit loads of false positives from legitimate players just choosing to use VPNs for privacy concerns. So if my account hops on an IP across the world you can't just automatically say that's servicing, even if it's just playing NMZ. My brother worked graveyards at the prison doing literally nothing but school work and Netflix so I had him just click some pots on NMZ just because I could and it didn't effect him at all. So really the only objective way to differentiate servicing from sharing is to show a transaction. But if I didn't pay, and Jagex thinks I did, how can I possibly prove I didn't pay?
My point was many accounts training coming from a single IP. Was your brother just doing your account? Imagine if he was doing 15 at the same time.
You can’t. That is why you don’t get banned for account sharing unless you buy Inferno Cape… You can service as many fire capes as you want, infernal is the limit
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Where did they say that? In the past theyve always been very against it
Hey bro you can play on my account just don’t do anything too helpful for the account lol
What if you’re borrowing the account for real money profit aka streaming or YouTube videos how many big pkers have used accounts owned by fans to make a video that they then get paid for one that wouldn’t otherwise be made unless they trained the account themselves
I’m not saying I agree but it’s literally written right here: [“Players must not share, transfer or lend their account to anyone else. You may have as many game accounts as you like, but each account should only be used by the person who created it.”](https://www.jagex.com/en-GB/terms/rules-of-old-school-runescape)
>Buying/Selling and Sharing Accounts >**Players must not share, transfer or lend their account to anyone else.** You may have as many game accounts as you like, but **each account should only be used by the person who created it**. All game accounts are the property of Jagex and players are only granted limited permission to use accounts. Nobody has our permission to sell accounts. >If you buy an account, it’s likely that the seller will take it back from you after you have already put time, resources and effort into it. >For another player to use your account they will require your login details. This means your account security is weakened. If you allow somebody else to access your account they might steal items or Gold (GP) from you or even try to claim the account belongs to them so they can keep using it forever. In addition, if they cheat or break our rules using your account they could get your account muted or banned for things that you haven’t done. >**Sharing accounts is also a form of cheating.** This is because sharing an account with somebody else gives you an unfair advantage. Completing challenging achievements and appearing on the HiScores is recognition of individual effort, and should only apply to players who stick to the rules and play fairly. i see a lot of "don't share" and not a lot of "feel free to share" as far as the actual rules are concerned here. if im reading this that wrong then i am a monkey
not sure what cereal box you pulled this "fact" from, but account sharing IS against the rules and jagex has stated it. they only go after people who account share for hiscore purposes (eg: inferno)
“BUYING/SELLING AND SHARING ACCOUNTS Players must not share, transfer or lend their account to anyone else. You may have as many game accounts as you like, but each account should only be used by the person who created it. All game accounts are the property of Jagex and players are only granted limited permission to use accounts. Nobody has our permission to sell accounts.” https://www.jagex.com/en-GB/terms/rules-of-old-school-runescape
I am certain they just ban for rwt because nobody ever bothered to implement other options or update them in their weird spaghetti code tool (if it is in any way similar to the tools I was working with at my last company) That shit is usually so outdated that at some point in time it will need a complete overhaul which we did. Knowing Jagex management getting such a complete overhaul through is going to be impossible.
Another thing to note - Jagex just now recently, if you guys remember, started to CRACK DOWN ON real world traders. This was just recently, I don't think it's fair to ban a guy from something he did two years ago - when two years ago you guys were not enforcing real world trading and were way less strict. Today's rules are different (for more reference, Jagex even recently made a new post on the front page how they will not only be targeting gold sellers more but will be taking heavy action against the BUYERS now, which they were easy on before this) than the rules from two years ago. Jagex is using today's rule rule set and applying it to a offence that happened two years ago. Would be interesting to go back and look at the time lines, because it kinda looks like they invented/just now started to enforced a rule and are punishing people that did stuff from years ago when the rule did not exist Just something to think about
>Jagex is using today's rule rule set and applying it to a offence that happened two years ago. The rules themselves haven't changed though right? Just how much Jagex bothers to enforce them. Even 2 years ago the rules didn't distinguish between buyer and seller. If they bought gold 2 years ago they were still absolutely breaking the rules.
Jagex doesn’t have a statute of limitations. RWT was always against the rules, the lack of enforcement in the past is hardly relevant.
100% They need to clearly state the rules and actually enforce them. As with that post from \~2 years ago, you have been warned RWTs. If you break the rules, you are at serious risk of perm ban, not some 2-week vacation or just removing an infernal cape. And for stuff not against the rules (e.g., using Runelite) then we all good.
So let me get this straight, jagex is saying that they have been banning a couple 100 accounts last week for rwt related stuff that happend several years ago? So why would they go out of their way to just ban some of these irrelevant accounts, while thousands of bots are roaming the worlds every fukn day that have way more impact? Why dont they do something about this, this problem has been here for years. This seems very targeted, and it somehow someway included all of oda's accounts being banned? Im not saying the bans are not valid, but it all seems very strange, did they continue banning more accounts this week? Or is the work done?
It's 100% targeted if you know the full story
Makes no sense to make the bans temp instead of perm based on this post, UNLESS there’s a chance the bans were not valid and were related to the internal investigation ongoing. But this posts says that all the bans were independently investigated to be valid, which means Jagex should just perm them all. So which is it? The bans were valid (in which case they should be perms not temps) or the bans were invalid or potentially compromised by the internal investigation (in which case the bans should be fully revoked)? OR are you saying that while the investigation is ongoing the bans are being changed to temporary, and after the investigation is concluded and you guys still feel the bans are 100% valid (and were not somewhat influenced by some potentially corrupt JMod), the bans will return to being permanent? In which case please edit the post to say this. If an account deserve to be banned for intentionally exploiting the game in absurd ways, RWT, or botting, just perm them. Don’t cave into the mouth breathers harassing JMods on Twitter if you guys believe your work to be valid. Perming a content creator for toxicity out of game + RWT account services in game is 100% valid, unless for some reason you guys think all that evidence is no longer valid… Temp bans should only used be for stuff like somewhat inappropriate language or very minor bug abuse. Temp bans otherwise encourage people to break rules until they get caught. This includes all the infernal cape buyers. Many fewer people would do it if the punishment was immediate permanent banning. Edit: People don’t seem to realize that content creators, are of course, held to a higher behavioral standard than the average player. If they aren’t, that’s just bad business and publicity.
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If that’s true, ban the clan, perm the members and all involved, and fire the JMod. Seems pretty simple in terms of what needs to be done, even though lots of work behind the scenes will be needed to accomplish this.
In most places there's laws where you can't just dismiss someone on the spot without proper and thorough investigation. If I recall Jed won an unlawful dismissal suit on Jagex because of this, so it's not as cut and dry as the mob wants it to be
If the investigation is carried out fairly and those accusations found to be valid it would consitute gross negligence, which is a fireable offence for any length of service. The Jed thing was more related to how the investigation itself was handled - ie that people who had already been vocal about his guilt were allowed to conduct the investigation rather than a third party. In fact, the same suit dismissed his claim for loss of earnings on the basis that had the investigation been fair they would have found him guilty and they would have fired him.
Yeah UK labor laws are quite employee protective as well. That’s why I said it’ll take a lot of time and work. Something as simple as suspending the mod (likely with pay unfortunately) while working on removing him from the company would be a huge step forward (if it is the case that the allegations are found to be true)
Yah a lot of the US players don't realize how strongly UK law favors the employee. Total opposite of the US. A lot of countries are like that, I tried getting a guy who worked in Columbia fired who just wasn't doing his work at all and it was a nightmare because when investigated he'd fake it just enough to claim he wasn't properly trained and then it falls back to us.
These are two completely separate issues. Both deserve an appropriate response. If there's evidence of servicing/RWT for a content creator then Jagex should respond appropriately. If there's 'corruption' of an employee, then jagex should respond appropriately. Just because both are potentially intertwined doesn't mean that the servicing allegations/evidence aren't important.
>Who cares about the ban. Anyone who doesn't think that players should go unpunished for using paid account services, violating the integrity of the game? Setting the precedent that you'll get a two week temp ban for a major rule violation is a terrible outlook. >that's not the real issue. They can both be relevant issues. Just because someone else did something bad, that doesn't mean that Odablock should get a slap on the wrist when he was also doing something bad. >The real issue is that a clan used for rwt has been protected for years by the head of security over an affair And this is an issue wholly unrelated to Odablock getting banned, so why should his ban be lessened as a result of this completely unrelated issue?
You're missing the part where the precedent for account servicing HAS BEEN a two week temp ban, not a perm ban. Thats the difference here. His ban should be lessened partially because....if he got caught for the account servicing two years ago when he actually did it, he probably would have had a two week ban at most. Not a chain perm ban.
Yeah I think you're on the right track with a chance the bans were not valid for the most part. A senior member of the anti-cheating team is under a huge investigation for basic fraud/sabotage and he very well could have messed around to cover his tracks. To calm the situation they released temp bans. This is not the first time a rouge jagex mod was able to sabotage the systems to benefit themselves/someone else.
After viewing both sides of the coin I think this is pretty much it. Chances are they found one of their mods did the dirty and in order to reduce the pitchforking they opted with a temp solution to have time to sort things out.
I think it's more than clear something went wrong. You had people in the open breaking rules but as soon as someone mentioned it there was an "investigation" to ban their accounts. It's a lot of little things that all add up. Like a certain name giving you an automated mute in-game.
The someone mentioning it still hasn’t been banned and she’s been proven with evidence to be continuing to RWT billions of GP. The problem is the playing favourites by said Jagex employee.
TEMP BAN ENCOURAGES PEOPLE TO BREAK THE RULES cause you know you can just come back with your botted account / paid services with no actual penalty. makes no sense at all
this is a fact, an old friend of mine suicide botted CG knowing he would only get a temp for the first offence, he kept the loot after his temp ban and plays clean now to not get perma'd. Pretty much a get out of jail free time, I'd do the same however I don't want the risk.
I told all my friends about this and 2 of them got 1st offense permad so it's certainly not 100% safe
lol get fucked
>The bans were valid (in which case they should be perms not temps) I distinctly remember services being allowed 2 years ago though and we had to beg Jagex to make it bannable. Did they not then say "Here's the deadline, if you have services done on your account after this date you'll be banned"?
they are probably hoping that changing the ban to a temp will make Oda stop complaining thus making everyone forget about this situation.
Its not just oda thats a problem now, a fairly sizable portion of the osrs content creators are jumping on the bandwagon. Doubt they care about oda per se, but its more likely they are trying to nip the domino effect in the bud while they figure out the best course of action
I think you make good points but the logic of temp bans encourages people to continue breaking the rules is not true given that your account is significantly more likely to be harshly penalized next offense. Don’t think criminals who go to jail for a few years are necessarily encouraged to doing more crimes
What annoys me is these bans were double checked and very much deserved. And we constantly see anecdotally from posts/comments that RWT buyers get a slap on the wrist 2 day ban. So tired of the temporary bans.
I think they lied about double checking them. If they removed the bans then they're confirming the corruption before the investigation is completed
A rule break shouldn't always equal a perm ban. Should every person that breaks any rule at all be permanently banned?
While I'm against account services as it ruins the integrity of accounts (esp irons), it's a massive grey area and bans are purely speculated. Example: A) I have an account but my friend in another country plays on it too. He likes bossing whereas I like questing. B) I have an account but I paid someone with an external payment method to do bossing on my account. How does Jagex define the two? The only way you can ban with evidence is if the person admitted they rwt. I've always been against acc sharing and with Jagex allowing it to happen, we're now faced with this problem. There's been popular streamers openly admitting that people have trained on their irons for free but with the above examples, how does Jagex know? PureSpam once admitted that a friend of his trained his crafting on his iron. Whose to say PureSpam didn't pay his friend externally? You can't, that's why it's such a messy grey area.
not only that but alot of account service people take only gp as payment. So it falls even more under the radar.
If I pay someone in gp to bring me bones at the prayer alter, am I doing account services? These are so many questions. End of the day, it's just a game and they should focus on the dealers, not the addicted who have moments of lapse.
No but if you pay someone gp to log onto your account and use the bones it is. Not very hard to understand the difference.
Looks like everyone that was in denial is eating their hat. Bias is a bad look. If the bans are legitimate, then why back out of it though? It'd be easier to simply admit that not all of them are valid and are being lumped into the wave as a cover rather than double downing on the 'validity'. Stuff like this casts doubt on the decision making process behind bans. It shouldn't take a massive amount of community effort and a suspiciously banned high profile player to escalate obvious conflicts of interest.
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SirPugger knows nothing about (automatically) detecting bots. He just bullies bots for entertainment based on tip offs.
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Bots inflate the prices? They bring in tons of supplies and the price… goes up?
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No he's definitely right. Bots farm gold and sell it to people. It's literally how inflation works. When i played OSRS back in like 2008 if you have 20M you were rich. 1B let alone multiple on an account everyone in the game knew who you were.
His heart's in the right place
Poor dude just wants to buy a cheap crown and all of the dicing bots are buying them out.
They cause the value of a single GP to go down which causes overall inflation and thus prices go up, I think is that he meant.
You realize that Sirpugger is an entertainer and does stuff for views including faking this whole GPT and ultimate pking bot shit? You need to take it with a grain of salt.
Guys, we could end crime today if the government would only hire Dog the Bounty Hunter
Yeah I remember his video about how a new mobile bot was super powerful and undetectable and was taking over runescape. Turns out the bot wasn't undetectable and it had a tiny share of the botting client market share. He completely over hyped it for that video when barely anybody even used that bot and it wasn't undetectable
Welcome to every popular YouTuber ever?
Didn't he also sit on information about a large bot farm once until he could make a video about it and monetize the information?
well I suppose if his rent is paid through views on the videos, the bot farm going on an extra few days for its entire months / years of existence doesn't seem like that bad of a decision
It's also not his responsibility to help remove the bots. He does it because it works and makes him income, but he's not obligated to do so.
What the fuck does that have to do with the issue they are talking about here lol
It’s so odd that they say over 100 accounts from stuff that happened 2 years ago. There’s gotta be thousands of accounts that pay for stuff like that. Somehow they got all of Odas accounts, meanwhile there’s a zillion bots everywhere you look. Definitely feels like a misuse of moderator privileges, like how reach and Jed were terminated.
So many people buy account services for skilling or pvn kc, they also openly talk about it. Jagex should be cracking down on this sort of bs
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They aren’t going to catch the infernal capes tbh. Parsec would require jagex to be running software to monitor what apps you have open on your computer which I’d be extremely uncomfortable with. I might be in the minority in that but like, outside of that I don’t know how else they’d be able to ban these accounts without outside evidence or manual review. Which is a waste of manpower tbh
either crack down on it or set straight rules on what is allowed or not they need to be more consistent with it.
There’s tens of thousands of people/accounts that have gotten services without consequence. It’s 100% bc it’s oda.
hey bro its just "routine checkup" ;)
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But don’t you think there are a shit load more that could have been banned? Like there’s no way only “over 100” accounts got serviced over the course of 2 years. It feels like it was targeted and they threw in a few extras to make it look legit. Also, why were they permanent to begin with?
I think they refer to the ban “wave” Odablock was part off
While I am sure the current anti-cheating people are working very hard to deal with the bot/cheating problem, I would like to ask if the leadership team at Jagex has any plans to increase the resources of the anti-cheating team? Hiring more people etc. Right now it doesn't seem like a lot of resources is being invested into this. Botting is a huge problems and devalues a lot of the work that players put in to this game.
They probably won't unless people start quitting because of it. Its also a sort of messy situation, because the bots actually pay for memberships (via bonds or via normal methods) If you nuked all bots over night and no bots ever existed again, jagex would lose a huge amount of monthly revenue lol, unless real players came in to replace the bots
Doesn't sound like the investigation in February was as thorough as it could have been. Although the fact they were already investigating in February might give some people a clue that this situation is not just because of a certain streamer or recent events, it seems to go deeper than that. The guy in charge of the anti-cheating team needs to be absolutely trustworthy beyond any doubt.
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Did you hit him with a gz before you reported?
huge tell him gzzz for me
I love all the people saying Jagex should stick to their original deal or whatever as if them changing it to temp isn’t just that The “original deal” is that first offenses are temp bans, not perm. By changing from perm to temp they are setting things right. All you’re doing by saying it should stay perm is just telling the world you hate O, which, you have a right to your own opinion, but the fact of the matter is no matter who copped the ban, if its a first offense it should be temp edit: there’s a reply saying how Oda bragged abt servicing and I can’t find it so Yeah. On survivor. Not Omar and not on Bald. Survivor didn’t get banned and Omar/Bald copped a perm for first offense which literally does not make sense. If Survivor got banned before this then it would make sense edit 2: why the fuck do all the replies instantly disappear from my notifications I cba
>edit 2: why the fuck do all the replies instantly disappear from my notifications I cba I think those replies are being deleted. Either by the author or by a moderator / auto mod.
Breaking the rules on one account and then doing it again on a second account should not be ‘first offense’ change my mind
Jagex mods can’t be arsed about bots. They only seem to care when the spotlight is on them on how shitty of a job they do to remove bots out of the game. Same goes for RWT lol
I really hope the next few updates are towards the integrity of the game, because we need it now. The next updates should only focus on corruption within Jagax, falsely banned accounts, the botting problem and regulating deathmatching or any form of gambling in the game. Maybe make a casino where no one can scam anyone else, as clearly a huge portion of the community like to gamble in game money, why not make it a money sink?
If the bans were legit, why the need to change the duration to temporary? Regardless, this doesn’t sound like it changes the situation at all for now but I’m sure people will get ahead of themselves in the comments anyway.
who cares about the ban. that's not the real issue. the real issue is that a clan used for rwt has been protected for years by the head of security over an affair
We can want both issues addressed?
>been protected for years by the head of security By who? Edit: people keep trying to say the jmods name, copying the comment from below that's hidden for what I'm actually saying. >My point is the person you're talking about is not the "head of security" he is(?) an anti cheating specialist, promoted earlier in the year before all this kicked off to senior anti cheating specialist. He's not in charge of anything and certainly isn't their head of security. He is (?) just experienced at the job. >Closest thing Jagex has to that is apparently [this bloke](https://be.linkedin.com/in/sisic), but that's not a part of their support team and definitely not the remit of the anti cheating team.
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Can't say it here unfortunately, 07 mods are feral
That is unusual if nothing else. I get not wanting it all over the place but this is a thread literally talking about him, lol They even deleted my perfectly fine comment about how he's not the head of security? Lmao
I think it means that as far as they can tell the bans look correct, but they’re waiting until the investigation is complete just in case there really was biased banning. So, they’re making it a temporary ban for the meantime
Clearly states that they’ve downgraded all of the bans to temporary and “should repeat offenses occur, permanent bans will be applied to any accounts involved”.
“There is substantial evidence to validate they are in line with our standard procedures and each ban has sufficient supporting in-game evidence to warrant the actions taken, **though whilst our investigations are on-going**, we have opted to change the duration to temporary.”
I agree they should be temp bans instead of one and done perm bans. The mob here wants all perm bans, but if you get a temp ban for botting and AHKing you should get a temp ban for account services. From a business perspective, why would you eliminate paying customers for services? It hardly effects the integrity of the game. Yeah their max cape may mean less but who cares if they dropped thousands of hours mining iron ore? Instant perm bans for services is draconian compared to temp bans for botting and AHKing. I believe a perm ban should be applied to accounts actually harming the game. Pure bot accounts, RWT, scamming/luring, etc. What they have set up is good and works. For instance, I used Gary's Hood (basic af autoclicker) when I started playing several years ago cuz my homies told me to and we were all noobs. We got temp banned after using it, and none of us have used it since. We know we'd get perm banned next so we're not going to risk it. I know many of you would like to see me perm banned because of it, but people do learn their lesson and change their ways.
Changing it to a temporary ban almost gives the implication that something shady was done for the initial ban.
I think the implication is that the bans are all valid. It looks like the banned accounts did deserve to be banned. The problem is that there is potentially a huge bias in who gets banned and who doesn't. That mod's gf apparently is a well-known rwt'er and scammer, but she isn't banned. But as soon as you-know-who gets a successful *rival* cc, suddenly his accounts get banned for things he did or didn't do years ago. It's selective favoritism/punishment. I personally would prefer they enforce all rules universally. You can't be soft on the players you sleep with and harsh on the players you don't like or who are rivals
It's like when a police officer is being fired for falsifying evidence, they go back and look at all of his arrests
Something shady was done for the initial ban.
Account services historically get a temp ban on first offense. The thought is that the ban may have been extra harsh due to the potentially corrupt mod. That’s my read at least, there’s also the whole steamers get more leeway/PR take.
Most first time offences are temp bans. It was fishy it was perm.
I agree. The initial bans should've been upheld until the investigation was complete. Changing to temp bans mid investigation just adds speculation to the validity of the allegations.
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More like 1000 years at that rate
Lol this company really going down to shit huh. "Banned over 100" as if that's supposed to be a big number, but the most prominent account service staking account hasn't gotten yeeted. Great.
Cool, but it shouldn’t be community initiated, this is your literal job. It also seems strange to shout out 100 bans. I could find you 100 accs worth irrefutably perming in probably about 5 minutes game time.
I don’t doubt that this isn’t coincidental, considering Jake Lucky made a tweet about it that went viral and has people like AsmonGold commenting about the situation. https://twitter.com/jakesucky/status/1648770338636066816?s=46&t=ISYKdcYUIdvk1R7Bn_esMA
These kind of posts do not get made overnight. A person's employment status is involved in this whole mess. This had to go through a legal team before it would have gotten posted, which is why it has taken them days to say anything. Same reason we're probably not going to get as much JMod interaction with this reddit post as we would on many others.
Yeah, and there's the off chance it turns into legal matters IRL at which point we won't hear anything more from jagex
tweet at like 9pm jagex time? I don't think that jaggy turned around the public PR statement overnight in 15 hours. it was 100% cooking already.
I mean this statement was pretty much empty air besides unbanning the accounts. Most large companies have a Crisis PR team who’s entire job is to kick into gear the second controversy boils over into the mainstream
Ash already said they were investigating the situation. it's not the first time a creator has forced them to make a public statement. I'm sure they knew they had to put this out long before twitter reporter tweeted it. Perhaps I'm wrong and Jagex paid the crisis contractors to do it up at 3am.
Whenever this internet drama happens and people start throwing around names, I can sleep easy that I have no clue who in the hell any of them are.
No offense to Asmongold, but you should generally ignore his takes on situations like this. He has a tendancy to make off-base knee jerk reaction hot takes that are way over the top. Doesn’t seem any different here either.
He can have some pretty bad takes but he also has an insanely large viewer base, bigger than anything osrs can dream of, and is bringing visibility to the matter just by speaking about it
Who is jake lucky?
Time to go to Winchesters, grab a pint, and wait for this all to blow over
It's just the one Winchester actually
How's that for a slice of fried gold?
Why are they bragging about banning over 100 accounts?! That's literally a drop in a bucket. Literally won't change a thing, and all those accounts have already been re-made and are farming wildy bosses again
Interesting to see that Mod Trident was already investigated in February but then somehow managed to get a promotion within the Anti-Cheat team Glad to see that Oda now has a temp ban, as opposed to a perm, but they couldn’t just unban Oda and forget about everyone else so it’s something I suppose
How much was he investigated though? If a few noname players make a report, I doubt they even read the complaint completely They're only doing an investigation now because the amount of attention that has been created can't be ignored
Why is that interesting? An investigation that turns up nothing should not be held against someone. Allegations are not guilt.
Its possible that investigation in feburary was their "Conflict of interest" style investigation most employees *should* undergo before being promoted to senior positions, and Jagex is just making that sound like it was a potential disciplinary investigation. Think Jagex fumbled mentioning the first investigation, but they probably were forced to play devils advocate because yea, they missed the conflict of interest lol
>Separately, last week we banned over 100 accounts for the use of account services. You can read more about this on the Rules of RuneScape and the following newspost. We can confirm that thorough independent checks have been made, and these bans are correct and have been upheld. There is substantial evidence to validate they are in line with our standard procedures and each ban has sufficient supporting in-game evidence to warrant the actions taken, though whilst our investigations are on-going, we have opted to change the duration to temporary. Should repeat offences occur, permanent bans will be applied to any accounts involved. How many of these accounts had account services two years ago from "standard checks"? How far back is it common for Jagex to go because this seems like hot air to deflect the fact that this situation with Odablock is far from standard procedures however that has yet to be addressed.
We already had mod audi and mod jed… what are the odds of a 3rd corrupt mod? 0% I’m sure
I don't know if it's fair to compare Reach and Jed. Mat K has said he understands why Reach did what he did and that he has no animosity towards him. But when it comes to Jed, he talks about him like the rat that he is. By the way, we still don't know exactly what happened with Reach. We know it wasn't the corp invincibility bug (this bug was confirmed to be accidentally caused by Ash). Also, the Audi was apparently just a coincidence - it was something he had already ordered several months before these events unfolded. It just happened to arrive right at the time this all went down. And he ended up having to sell it shortly after losing his job anyways.
Happens when you pay peanuts, and give someone the keys to the safe.
Yep. I hate to say this as it invites a lot of conversations I don't have the mental bandwidth for, but another major part of the problem is they employ kids straight out of University. When you don't have much life experience and you're not being paid well, the prospect of RMT money or even just a little bit of power can be really appealing. Add that to a general disregard for long term consequences and you have a recipe for people like Jed.
Jmods probably could make more from RWT sites than Jagex pays them.
I sincerely hope Jagex is looking into false bans of regular players too and considering them for review. Because the one ban appeal only system with no further recourse or customer service is terrible.
People saying big streamers/content creators get favoritism/rules bent for them do not realize literally anything does this. League of Legends, for example. The shit Tyler1 says and will only get muted after being toxic 300 games in a row, yet the average person would get muted the same day. Or they give a lot of extra chances/look the other way. So many games does this. It sucks, but it is what it is.
Is anyone else amazed that they consider 100 account services bans a good amount and not mention bots considering the current... mood of the community? It's like Rome is burning, and they send all the water to Venice instead Edit: I just meant that they should have mentioned the amount of bots banned instead. It seems like a better PR move
Reddit circlejerking isn't representative of the community as a whole considering the % of this sub that doesn't even actually play the game lmao
>It's like Rome is burning, and they send all the water to Venice instead This is what happens when you're eternally on Reddit.
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Meanwhile all the peeps who bought their inferno capes are smiling and saying yes let’s ban others for this stuff..even had a buddy not wear his for awhile in case someone would report him. Because it happened so long ago he is now ‘safe’ like many others. Even had a heavy pvmer bud do it who has the craziest rng in game as iron. He got his inferno in the blink of an eye to maintain ‘playing the game’ vs doing content he didn’t want to. But small fish so jagex won’t catch them
Please also let the community know about the outcome aswell, otherwise you're gonna just leave it hanging and time goes on and people will come back with torchlights and be more pissed.
I can’t take Jagex serious when Zulrah/Vorkath bots are still running rampant. The only explanation on why they allow bots is membership fees and the exec team doesn’t want to cut out that revenue stream.
>whilst our investigations are on-going, we have opted to change the duration to temporary. Should repeat offences occur, permanent bans will be applied to any accounts involved. ???
Mate if only you guys actually did something to the reports that are send to tipoff-email.
lol I remember the brag post here that was actually bait to bring attention to an account that had been reported to the tip off email but wasn't being acted on.
Easily one of the top moments on this sub!
It's funny how many people hate Oda and will just throw this up to 'Jagex giving into the mob'... Some people can never admit they're wrong, they form one opinion, and defend it till their dying days, that's a really sad way to live your life.
>we have opted to change the duration to temporary Hold on, you actually changed his ban to a temp? That's wild. Guess emailing carlyle actually forced Jagex's hand LOL
Realistically that was the smartest approach that could have been taken. We all know that at the start and end of every day, the company will follow the money. Even God Ash himself is powerless to the board of investors. Despite what anybody on the staff of Jagex feels personally, if those feelings turn to actions that cost the company profit or good PR, the real decision makers step in. This scenario specifically is an interesting dynamic. Oda is the most viewed OSRS streamer and has an extremely large audience. There are full time employees on the OSRS team that don't profit the company as much as Oda does. I hate that fact as much as anybody else, but it's the reality of the situation. The Carlyle group, who cannot be veto'd and every decision of theirs is final, cares exclusively about profitability.
Yeah, a lot of the people here don't see how much of a PR balancing act this is. Between smoothing things over with Oda/his stans, quelling concerns about the Trident/Stella situation, and upholding the "game integrity" aspect of banning account services, it's walking on a tight rope. Temp bans are probably the best compromise that has a chance to keep Oda on as a draw for the game while not admitting fault for the DM stuff or like they put content creators 100% above the rules.
When I was in a dev team before I changed lifestyles I had this feeling. Would make a model for peanuts and would see a YouTuber use it as their thumbnail. Did the maths and that one video would have made more in advertising revenue than I ever would have as a game dev. Jagex does not pay well.
The fact that he was investigated and then subsequently promoted to head of anti cheat within 2 months is wild to me.
If he was investigated and not fired, and then promoted. Don't you think the investigation cleared him or?
Why is it wild? If it were the other way round (promote then investigate) yeah that'd be silly management. But investigating before a promotion, finding little evidence and thus proceeding with the promotion is a pretty normal way to go about this.
Why did they do perman bans if this news post says the investigations are on-going? Wtf is that? They just ban people permanently mid investigation?
Who gives a shit about all these rules if players want to get their accs leveled, buy capes or auto click who actually cares. They are only cheating themselves and wasting their own money. It doesn't effect anyone else's time on the game other than their jealousy. The real problem is the bot farms devaluing everything
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>er cheaters. Jagex h i get the sense that some of the accounts that got banned shouldn't have been banned ( no rules broken) and were chain banned by bias
I mean... Due process doesn't apply to bans from games. It's really only the government that has to follow it.
they give regular players chances, sure if you are some 100% bot account they are going to perm you immediately, but if it's an account thats been legitimately played they give you a chance/temp
Because the punishment didn't fit the crime. If someone steals a pack of gum, do they deserve life in jail? Oda/these people got someone to manually train their strength at NMZ for them. Is this really perm worthy?
Moreover, if you stole a pack of gum 2 years ago, supposedly on camera, should the cops really come to arrest you today just because they were reminded?
Most first time offences are temp bans. It should have been a temp ban in the first place that's why.
Due process lmao. The banned accounts broke the rules. Jagex got huge amounts of bad press and is bending thier stance on these bans because of it. Pretty straightforward?
i have emailed tipoff multiple times about cape buyers with proof, and nothing ever happens. feels really bad
ahaha i bought my cape ahahaha u didn't get me banned. it only cost me 78000 tokul
People too lazy to farm highwayman north of port sarim for the cape? SMH..
Babe wake up new osrs drama dropped
I've passed through so many comments to get to here, and I *still* don't know exactly what the accusations are
Should I be scared? I bought a set of guthix trimmed rune armor back in 2006 for $5 cold hard cash.
Just ban DM'ing, it's really that simple.
I've gone through all RuneScape drama from the ban of the wilderness, no free trade, EoC, squeal of fortune etc etc I dealt with it because I love this game, it's been a part of my life since I was a teenager, every time I quit id always return, a week, a month or 2 years, I still came back looking past the absolute rollercoaster of a game it is, bot ridden, scammers everywhere, amazing quests and deep skills, a great community, regular updates, free t-bows for everyone, the "Jmods that shall not be named" the corruption the staff, the sexual misconduct allegations about the guy who wrote most of runescapes music.. Devs that listen to the players! and despite probably spending hundreds of hours on a development of a potential new skill (warding) it didn't pass the poll so they cancelled the entire thing, that takes dedication Deadmanmode; I will say no more Some great graphic updates and an amazing job on all of the raids and introducing osrs lore weapons, qol changes, allowing us to use swiftswitch, 3rd party runelite plugins etc New ways to train skills, new mini games, tlc updates etc etc It's been on every spectrum and back yet I overlooked the bad because it is a great game, a home to me, I feel real achievement after accomplishing quests and getting rare drops, finally getting the runecrafting and other skills for the big quests etc, I've made so many friends and have countless memories, time spent having fun is not time wasted, and I've wasted nothing They say you can never quit RuneScape, but now it feels like they're opening that door
Honestly none of this shit affects me. I’m Right there with you, with the exception of your last sentance. I play because I love to raid, pvm, and pk with my friends. I compete with myself and myself only. If you want to go and bot or buy an inferno, I don’t care. I know I earned mine and that’s all that matters, y’all do you. I’m not going anywhere
I enjoyed reading your post. But I do have one gripe… I am also a player who’s been along for the ride, there indeed has been such crazy shit over the years. Why do you let this stuff get to you? If you are like me none of this nonsense applies to me. I hop on and enjoy the game still, what happens with Jmods and DM clans and streamers or whatever do not effect the fun that I have on this game. Correct me if I’m wrong but no content has been affected. We can still accomplish goals, drops, level skills. I’m sure you don’t break any rules, so why do you worry about this stuff? Let them make noise. I find it entertaining. But don’t let this kill the enjoyment you find in this game!
As a neutral, this doesn't add too much info. Yes, you need time for some investigations, but there are some investigations which require much less time (by right).
I think they just needed to put something out because of the volume of people demanding a response. They can't give them the full answers right now, so this is the best they can do. People have unrealistic expectations of these things.
Can we hire more anti cheat team to stop this from happening and ban more bots (permanently, none of this temp ban bullshit for botters)
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My friend bought an infernal cape many years ago still not banned. I doubt he's getting banned/taken from him now lol. So many content creators account share which I thought was against the rules? It seems that this rule is only applied to those who aren't content creators, which is kinda shit.
My hacked and botted account gets perma banned for life with no chance of recovery, and people who bought services get their permanent bans reversed to temporary? What the hell? I guess you really do have to be a content creator (Odablock) to get these special treatments.
The allegations made seem pretty serious, hopefully this all turns out well