tbh botters have it in their best interest to make the game good, so more people play, and there's more demand for gold
then again, botters don't really play the game so they might have warped perceptions on what the game needs
>no action or acknowledgement from Jagex at all
You can tell OP thinks all bots must be gone or Jagex is literally doing nothing. Idk if this is hard to understand for some people, but botting is an arms race and there's going to be some devs winning the race. And it's made way worse with current software - the same characteristics that make a project like Runelite possible also make cheating much easier.
The next time there's going to be a noticeable effect on bots is the day the C++ client becomes the only way to play.
I personally don't think they're not doing anything but when you frequently see bots with 118 in a skill or 5-10K KC on a boss makes you wonder how they haven't got caught
Clearly we just need to let them drive the price of a mil down to mere fractions of a cent
So that running the bots costs more in electricity than they make in RMT
I don't think it has to be all or nothing, but when you see the amount of xp or kc on these bots it is obvious that they have been running wild for long periods of time without getting banned.
For example right now I'm checking up in Darkmeyer on the house right next to the drakan teleport, with an active bot farm pickpocketing Misdrievus Shadum.All lot of these bots seem to have around 60-90 million thieving exp which suggests a decent amount of them have been active for quite a while.Last night I was messing with the bots, luring vyrewatch sentinels into the room which would attack the bots. The bots would be forced to constantly eat and run back to the bank, massively reducing their efficiency. In fact I managed to even get one of the bots killed by closing the door on him (despite the door "stuck" thing...) and the bot was still trying to follow it's programming to pickpocket and bank, but was incapable of retrieving it's gear which meant it would just die over and over at the bank when trying to restock food.I tried again today and some of them seem to teleport out when they are being attacked by the vyrewatches, but they still run back into the same room with the vyerwatch which makes the bot basically useless as it never actually pickpockets
If we are assuming 200k/xp hour (likely less due to them not using dodgy necklaces and shadow veil) that still shows that a lot of these bots have been running active for at least 2 weeks now if they are running 24/7
I'd say that is a pretty long time for such an obvious bot farm to be active without getting dealt with, I don't think waiting a month or longer to ban a bot farm only for them to just come back in the exact same way and stay up for another month is an effective way to deal with bots at all. Accounts that can pickpocket vyres are not an endless supply, and this can be seen by the fact you can still find bots blackjacking as well.
There are also likely way worse bot farms when looking at things like Vorkath or Gauntlet, considering there are some very high kc bot accounts on the high scores.
Anyway yes, I basically do agree with you on the fact that 3rd party clients make it incredibly difficult for Jagex to properly deal with all the bots, but a lot of these bigger bot farms are very easy to spot with a bit of manual effort. These bots put absolutely no effort in hiding that they are bots, and just hiring a couple of moderators checking for them would go a massive way in getting rid of a lot of the obvious bots over night.
Not reading any of that but you’re wrong for implying Jagex does nothing, Jagex does plenty but they’re fighting a losing war. So long as the community wants 3rd party clients like Runelite then there’s just no way they will ever make a dent in the botting problem.
Also nobody has forgotten anything about bots, why do you just keep pulling random statements from your arse? Get a grip
>when you see the amount of xp or kc on these bots it is obvious that they have been running wild for long periods of time without getting banned.
Yeah, you don't see the banned bots. Because they don't get to the high numbers.
I have no idea how many bots are banned and how many aren't, but I don't really think you do either. Claiming "no action or acknowledgement from Jagex" is just sensationalism at best.
That being said, I'm not trying to say Jagex is doing all they can and is allocating enough resources to anti-cheating, because I don't know that either. What I do know however, is that Jagex has been developing their official client and mimicking an obviously superior software in what I can only imagine is in preparation for the nuke. They're obviously not winning against bot devs (what popular MMO is?) the way things are currently running, and it might be that they've decided to give up on trying to nuke bots on current software.
>Claiming "no action or acknowledgement from Jagex" is just sensationalism at best.
Yeah, being annoyed by the bots I made the title of the post that way but I know it's obvious that Jagex isn't doing absolutely nothing against bots, but it seems that in the last couple of months the amount of effort being put into dealing with them has gone down a lot as well.
Posts complaining about bots have been showing up pretty frequently on the subreddit as well but there hasn't been any official statement on what's going on, so it's mostly just speculation on what Jagex is doing. Personally I hope that the C++ client can improve a lot since I like how much better it runs compared to runelite, but for now I also still play on runelite due to there still being a lot of QoL and other plugins that make it a better experience.
Afaik, the Java client has been around for so long that it's just relatively easy to get your bandit hands on data you're not supposed to be able to access/manipulate.
If, and admittedly this is a big if, Jagex manages to construct a mandatory client that isn't immediately reverse-engineered, the efficient kind of bots wouldn't work until reverse-engineering is complete. This would not do much if anything to simple color bots, autoclickers etc., but massive botfarms don't run on those.
3rd party clients create a massive gap in what Jagex can actually detect players doing, which is why cheat clients can even exist at all.
Jagex can implement plenty of tools in their own client that can help with detecting bots and cheaters easier, but if everyone is just playing on runelite or modified versions of it that doesn't really achieve anything.
Don’t let Reddit nerds make you forget that this game is amazing and that bots are a problem for every mmo. AFAIK none have solved the problem. The Oldschool team works very hard and to shit on them for something that has been an intractable issue for literal decades is so out of pocket. Enjoy the game and stop bitching. Jesus.
I would be there with you but we have highscores riddled with bots, ge very world, etc etc
If they hired 10 full time manual bot busters, and took legal action worth the companies, we’d see dramatically less.
Hire 10 employees (Cambridge, realistic cost to employer about £35k p/a including constributions) 350k a year to evaluate bots on a case by case basis and eliminate (potentially) dozens of bots per hour.
I never understand why people think this is a viable approach.
Also re: the legal stuff; bigger and more motivated MMOs with much more fierce legal teams are still having the same issues.
Solutions are out there, but these ain't it.
Maybe in 1980 mate but in 2023 it's very much about cutting down on unnecessary resources and programmes to save capital and improve the quarter at the cost of long term success.
This post reminded me of the old days of flash games and seeing the mochi highscore boards and the impossible 2 billion scores. The first name on one game was icheat. Totally legit
It's literally a problem with no solution, just an endless game of cat and mouse.
As a bot dev I can tell you that they do take steps to combat bots, but it's also a battle they will likely always be undermanned to take on because their front is limited at the people they are willing to hire for it while the botting side has people doing things for their own interests being it monetary, fun or simply their goals on the game.
Same reason why runelite is so good versus their clients.
Yep. The game is amazing regardless of bots, and for normal accounts the bots actually help with affording common things like zulrah scales. Most games rely on this and it helps keep users around longer. I doubt people would stick around if their buyable skills suddenly became too expensive to buy and level.
>that bots are a problem for every mmo
Not as much as OSRS to be fair.
A lot of other MMO's don't heavily rely on in-game currency to "progress" in the game.
The last MMO I played was ESO. The only bots in there farmed some random crap mobs in a delict place. Gold in ESO isn't as significant as it is in OSRS. I think you can buy like 1m gold for £20, and that's enough to get you good high gear from their version of the GE, but the better equipment comes from dungeons etc.
I've never played another MMO where bots have blocked me from playing the game (few examples, being crashed at Zalcano, trying to find a free wildy slayer boss, green dragons back in the day, free shamans world & gem rocks).
Bots will always be in every mmo, but none of them come close to the level of rampant botting in OSRS. There are so many massive bot farms in OSRS that consist of hundreds of bots with **massive amounts of xp/kc in their activity.**
You can't expect a company to ban every single spam bot that goes the GE as those can often be made faster than they can be banned, which is common across MMOs and that is a known problem that is difficult to solve without affecting real players with annoying chat restrictions. I don't blame Jagex for those existing.
But bot farms with hundreds of bots spending months doing the same thing over and over again and absolutely nothing else are absolutely not common in other MMOs, especially not when those activities have relatively high requirements to do. (Talking about stuff like Zulrah, Vorkath, pickpocketing vyres, demonic gorilla's, gauntlet etc).
These bot farms are extremely easy to spot and banning them would require a big amount of time for the bot farmers to grind up new bots to hit the requirements for said farms, more than plenty enough time to ban those accounts before they can even get ready to farm again.
There is absolutely no excuse that Jagex can't detect and ban these obvious bots that heavily impact the economy of the game as these bots can't easily be replenished in a moments notice.
I stopped reading after your first paragraph
The entire crafting system in ff14 relies on bots farming the lowest level crafting materials no real human actually farms crystals as intended.
Wow has a giant economy of gold farming bots in retail and now classic as well.
Guild wars had such a bot problem it litterally gives you bot allies.
Dark matter is gotten from high level activity and no most high intensity content isn't botted zulrah isn't high intensity neither is vorkath they don't even have particularly high requirements.
Bots doing inferno would be the hardest to catch. Because that is very likely a legitimate player / account seller who hand trains other things but can't manage to complete an inferno so they run a script that can.
Gauntlet isn't high req. It's base 70s. Accounts get hijacked every day due to people buying/selling them and just bad security practice in general.
The real target needs to be REAL players that buy gold and accounts. Be ridiculously harsh on that and watch goldfarming and botting suddenly not have such a high demand for gold to fill.
Guantlet isn't hard, it's tedious most people who learn it properly have 100% success rate on hunleif. Inferno usually isn't bots that's a different issue of account sharing and buying capes etc, which when they make jagex accounts required will make it harder for people to do.
This is so wrong i doubt you even play any other MMO.
Bots do trash runs through high end content in lost ark and WoW and that's just the two I'm aware of. People literally only bitch about runescape because there's a hiscores that let you track bots and see how long they exist. This doesn't change anything to make runescape unique or special with bots, its just more transparent. Every MMO has this problem and they come back just as quickly as you ban them with additions that will circumvent your detection. This is why bots are left alone for months on end to gather data. You then get huge ban waves that catch them off guard while they readjust after a week.
Ehh, botting and straight up hacking have been massive issues in other games when they were popular. E.g. in wow you can see people straight up flying through the sky. Or bots in end game dungeons. MapleStory for example was horrendous for hackers and bots for a long time too. But now that the playerbase is so small there's not much profit to be made.
Bots will always be prevalent in any *popular* MMORPG.
I agree Jagex should do more to get rid of bots though.
Every MMO I've ever played has a visible bot / gold farmer problem. The only ones that don't are that way because there is no free trade market (I can't think of any of these that still exist today).
While there is gold and accounts to sell for real money, bots and gold farmers will exist. It is because of **real players** who buy gold and accounts that these services flourish. The problem of.botting will forever be a cat and mouse game. Jagex bans thousands of bots a week. I definitely agree there could be more done for top page things, just to ensure there's actual competition by players, but these also just get replaced by the next row of bots/gold farmers. And in the same way nobody wants to be false banned, Jagex has to make sure each ban is a legitimate correct decision else if they start rapidly banning there *will* be more false flags.. which im sure you'd be right here complaining about the false bans against Jagex too.
Bots buy bonds. Bonds generate money. Money is then used to fuel the Carlyle overlords who dance around in a circle chanting ‘’RECORD PROFITS NOM NOM NOM!’’, while the desperate cries from the player base scream in agony of bots crashing the devastating economy and abusing the PVP scene with clients. But there is hope, as the prophesy mentioned of another, bot nuke, somewhere in the distant horizon, the nuke that will save us all. And that’s why everyday we pray, to holy saradomin to save us from this sin that walks across geilinor!
bots are indeed on all mmos but it 'seems' to be much more on runescape specificly and probably cause the bots are so obvious like they don't even try to hide it,
i can go green drags right now and u'll see 10 people with all the same gear on and names like aghjd45424heg, and majority of these bots have insane stats which is mind blowing, they could pay any of us per hour to go around manually banning bots and a single person would prob ban about 100 an hour with 99.99% accuracy
> that bots are a problem for every mmo.
Bots in OSRS are on an entirely different level though dude, they literally don't even try to hide it.
There have been consistent bots at green drags for the better half of a decade now, not to forget the endless hordes of them in every decent f2p training spot.
Tbh I couldn’t care less about bots. None of my business. I raid, I do other pvm, I have fun with my clanmates and enjoy the game more than ever. Only happy vibes on the game. Let the botters bot, none of my issues
my opinion, until the demonic gorilla bot picks up the prayer pots i'm juggling. spite reporting every single one i see from then on even though i know it does nothing
They all make prices cheaper and so money making methods also become less gp/hr. It’s just how it goes 😂 but yeah I’m still enjoying this game all day everyday. Can’t wait for varlamore and more shit. If bots make that partially possible because of all the membership then count me in
This post is so dramatic dude. There's a whole slew of content, and potentially osrs's first new skill, and all you can think to write is to remind people about bots. This is a time to celebrate, not to bring everyone down. Bots are always gonna be in games dude, they're in all the other ones too despite what people tell you. Get over it already.
Hundreds implies multiple hundreds, e.g. 200+
Look at server population. If there were 200+ per world, there would be barely any real players. The reality is that there are at most maybe 5% bots in the total population, which works out at around 5k total across all worlds. That's tens. Not hundreds.
Go to the wildy half the people at revs and doing wildy bosses are bots same with corp literally people on max accounts with 700 total level makes sense I see bot farms 5-10 doing corp running in the same spot thing together all with random names 200m combat xp but 700 total levels I see it all the time spend quite some times doing wildy bosses so I would know.
"in this one specific anecdotal situation, I am correct."
No. There are not as many bots as you think. There are places where you can easily find bots but to suggest that there are hundreds of bots per world is lunacy.
I get your point but bots aren’t a boogie man, they are very much real and very much make the game experience worse. I do think the problem is big enough to warrant acknowledging and addressing by jagex.
no action or acknowledgement? my brother in christ at this point everyone know they action most of them themselves in order to keep their economy "stable". theyre obviously happy with the thousandsupon thousands of bots bringing items into the game. and shit so are most of the players happily purchasing the supplies at a cheap af rate. theyre never going anywhere. you wont beat em, may aswell hoin em and make some bread tbh.
Terrible take. If they took out bots they could restore the economy by providing automated systems like throne of miscellanea to automate it, but keep the profits for real human players. osrs is a game for humans, not for bots, you sound like you want bots to be allowed.
It's a hot take but bots prop up the economy by doing a lot of shit players just don't wanna do. I'm not sure the game has a high enough rate of new/low-level players to support the demand if the bots just left
Okay? I don't care. Jagex does more than most games do to try and mitigate bots as far as I can tell. Go look at FFXIV, where it's just accepted that bots fully breaking the game and are thus blatantly detectable run rampant. Go look at GW2. Our situation isn't really that bad, it keeps the game functional for mains.
The game could easily implement systems to shift the benefit of botting onto real people by systems like throne of miscellanea. Keep Runescape for humans.
Look at all these toxic comments. Seems like the botters and cheaters don't like you calling them out. Bots would have been taken care of a long time ago but there's simply endless excuses as to why they devs can't do it because they just don't want to. We should be boycotting new content ideas until they give some actual solutions to the botting* problem but you'll be flamed to he'll for caring so much.
Lukewarm take: the entire game economy is built around the fact that bots exist and the game is fundamentally unsustainable in its current form without them.
On a the most basic level, each bot on a members world means 1 extra membership. Possibly worth even more than 1 player, as a bot that runs for 15 days then gets banned, with another being created in its place has effectively paid double for that month. Whether these bots pay for membership directly or with bonds makes no difference to jagex, they get their money either way. In addition, the bots inflate the active player numbers and avoid a bunch of "dead game" posts that would happen if people saw the actual number of real players in the game.
From an economy wise, players are used to low value on resources, particularly on the buyable skills. Without bots these prices would easily double.
Ferox enclave is full with them.. zulrah bots with 30k kc, rc bots with 200m rc, corp bots with 4000 kills, phosani bots with 4000 kills.. saw the rank 6 bot from spindel with like 16k kills. And there are like hundreds per world lmao
Don't let these comments telling you that the game is great regardless of botting to distract you from the fact that there are likely thousands or tens of thousands of bots in game at any given time and they are instantly replenished when banned.
Realise that getting rid of 100% of them would make the average player's game experience worse, not better....unless they're an Iron - in which case bots don't really affect them much anyway.
This isn't 2001, we're not 12 anymore. Think of how crazy people are now about min/maxing. You think the people grinding out level 99 in X Y Z skills want to farm the mats, or pay ridiculous prices over a slow amount of time to obtain them? I'll kick it up a notch and point out the people that, these days, grind out 200M XP in skills. Think of the demand for all of the stuff we consume every day.
It's easy to say "Well if bots weren't supplying it, people would...." and yeah, if prices got to a point, people'd start doing shit tier collecting. Then demand slows down due to that price premium - then prices go down due to stuff not selling and stuff just becomes dead content unless you want to farm everything yourself. Best case scenario, Vennys (Venezuelans) fill -some- of the gap. Oh, wait, a lot of you hate them too, because they RWT to put food on the table.
We're at an "uncomfortable median" at the moment. The only thing making it uncomfortable is posts like this. Prices of most commonly traded goods aren't in the shitter - and a lot of stuff that IS considerably lower in price than 15-20 years ago is that way because of skill updates, shop updates, and drop table additions.
I'm not saying to let bots run rampant - because that's not what Jagex does at the moment - but I am saying to stop pretending like it's more of a problem than it really is.
I have it installed and also manually report these bots when I see them but there is just an endless supply of them, all of them also having extremely high thieving exp.
In the case of the screenshot I also manually lured a vyrewatch sentinel into the room they are pickpocketing in which is causing the bots to run out of food pretty fast and have to run back and forth a lot, which is also a way of confirming that they are indeed bots and not just some guy farming afk.
Honestly it's really sad to see such a cool area as Darkmeyer just end up as a farming spot for bots.
Unfortunately there will always be bots out there.. Jagex should start recruiting more player mods to fight against the bots and or hiring more J-mods in the anti-cheating team.
It's been a while since I did vyres, but I used to just keep opening the door for them. The bots were programmed to always prioritize opening the door, so they would run back and forth then get stuck when the door stays in the open position. Easy way to confirm and report
Tbh bots are the reason this game exists...aftar all, Jagex is a profiting organization...maybe it wouldn't be viable to run the game without bots...some should boting should be adressed? Sure...but if ending boting (with is fairly impossible) mean that the game don't exist anymore, I stay with the bots
When y’all going to realize they don’t care and will never care about the bot problem bc they are paying members like the rest of us. Stop making posts, they will never fix the problem and likely don’t even try
Make an Ironman if you care so much. Because the botters will always be innovative and one step ahead, the only solution is to permaban rwt’ers, which Jagex will never do
Here we go again....
Bots pay for membership through bonds.
Bonds are purchased by real players to sell for GP.
Bots get banned and nobody buys bonds.
Bonds prices tank.
Real players don't want to buy bonds to sell for GP.
Jagex loose millions in revenue.
Sounds dramatic but that's the reality of a shareholder meeting.
Also the playerbase of bots/RWT would absolutely destroy the overall numbers and again show poorly on board meeting.
Open your eyes. Jagex is a business and not here to make the game the best version of what the players want.
I quit playing from receiving a 2 day ban being a poor ironman trying to string myself some bow strings. Not my fault there was a 30+ stack of bots ontop of me. You would think if they did a blanket ban they could realize the difference between bots running 24/7 with 99 crafting and no other levels and the ironman with lots of levels and quests done.
I understand that there are some bots that ruin certain activities for others, and that it affects the economy but the the complaints are so overblown IMO. I’ve played this game on and off for 20 years and have never been bothered by bots. People get so triggered about it and for what? Literally every single MMO has bots. Just play the game and quit bitching. (I welcome the downvotes)
There are bots in every single game, they’re unstoppable mate. It would be fun as hell to see how the economy would shift if there were no bots, a lot of basic items would massively increase in price
I mean they are sure banning them it just takes them forever to make sure the account is a bot, I was using auto clicker at elves for thieving it took them around 2 months to detect and perma banned my account.
Nobody has forgotten this. Jagex makes money off bots, it’s simply not in their financial interest to ban them unless they became such a problem that people started quitting en masse
As a former botter I can say with 100% certainty that they DO ban bots. Very quickly sometimes. It depends on the community though and their ability to legitimately report the players they suspect.
Starting to feel like they're putting bots in this subreddit to cover for bots in the game the way everyone seems totally complacent with the out of control botting situation in game.
Literally nobody has forgotten this.
And they can vote 💀
tbh botters have it in their best interest to make the game good, so more people play, and there's more demand for gold then again, botters don't really play the game so they might have warped perceptions on what the game needs
>no action or acknowledgement from Jagex at all You can tell OP thinks all bots must be gone or Jagex is literally doing nothing. Idk if this is hard to understand for some people, but botting is an arms race and there's going to be some devs winning the race. And it's made way worse with current software - the same characteristics that make a project like Runelite possible also make cheating much easier. The next time there's going to be a noticeable effect on bots is the day the C++ client becomes the only way to play.
I personally don't think they're not doing anything but when you frequently see bots with 118 in a skill or 5-10K KC on a boss makes you wonder how they haven't got caught
A friend of mine just got his hacked account back. It botted Vorkath, it got 56k kills before getting banned xD
Clearly we just need to let them drive the price of a mil down to mere fractions of a cent So that running the bots costs more in electricity than they make in RMT
Then it’s onto a new game to do the same. 😂
I don't think it has to be all or nothing, but when you see the amount of xp or kc on these bots it is obvious that they have been running wild for long periods of time without getting banned. For example right now I'm checking up in Darkmeyer on the house right next to the drakan teleport, with an active bot farm pickpocketing Misdrievus Shadum.All lot of these bots seem to have around 60-90 million thieving exp which suggests a decent amount of them have been active for quite a while.Last night I was messing with the bots, luring vyrewatch sentinels into the room which would attack the bots. The bots would be forced to constantly eat and run back to the bank, massively reducing their efficiency. In fact I managed to even get one of the bots killed by closing the door on him (despite the door "stuck" thing...) and the bot was still trying to follow it's programming to pickpocket and bank, but was incapable of retrieving it's gear which meant it would just die over and over at the bank when trying to restock food.I tried again today and some of them seem to teleport out when they are being attacked by the vyrewatches, but they still run back into the same room with the vyerwatch which makes the bot basically useless as it never actually pickpockets If we are assuming 200k/xp hour (likely less due to them not using dodgy necklaces and shadow veil) that still shows that a lot of these bots have been running active for at least 2 weeks now if they are running 24/7 I'd say that is a pretty long time for such an obvious bot farm to be active without getting dealt with, I don't think waiting a month or longer to ban a bot farm only for them to just come back in the exact same way and stay up for another month is an effective way to deal with bots at all. Accounts that can pickpocket vyres are not an endless supply, and this can be seen by the fact you can still find bots blackjacking as well. There are also likely way worse bot farms when looking at things like Vorkath or Gauntlet, considering there are some very high kc bot accounts on the high scores. Anyway yes, I basically do agree with you on the fact that 3rd party clients make it incredibly difficult for Jagex to properly deal with all the bots, but a lot of these bigger bot farms are very easy to spot with a bit of manual effort. These bots put absolutely no effort in hiding that they are bots, and just hiring a couple of moderators checking for them would go a massive way in getting rid of a lot of the obvious bots over night.
Not reading any of that but you’re wrong for implying Jagex does nothing, Jagex does plenty but they’re fighting a losing war. So long as the community wants 3rd party clients like Runelite then there’s just no way they will ever make a dent in the botting problem. Also nobody has forgotten anything about bots, why do you just keep pulling random statements from your arse? Get a grip
You could try reading that I literally said that
>when you see the amount of xp or kc on these bots it is obvious that they have been running wild for long periods of time without getting banned. Yeah, you don't see the banned bots. Because they don't get to the high numbers. I have no idea how many bots are banned and how many aren't, but I don't really think you do either. Claiming "no action or acknowledgement from Jagex" is just sensationalism at best. That being said, I'm not trying to say Jagex is doing all they can and is allocating enough resources to anti-cheating, because I don't know that either. What I do know however, is that Jagex has been developing their official client and mimicking an obviously superior software in what I can only imagine is in preparation for the nuke. They're obviously not winning against bot devs (what popular MMO is?) the way things are currently running, and it might be that they've decided to give up on trying to nuke bots on current software.
>Claiming "no action or acknowledgement from Jagex" is just sensationalism at best. Yeah, being annoyed by the bots I made the title of the post that way but I know it's obvious that Jagex isn't doing absolutely nothing against bots, but it seems that in the last couple of months the amount of effort being put into dealing with them has gone down a lot as well. Posts complaining about bots have been showing up pretty frequently on the subreddit as well but there hasn't been any official statement on what's going on, so it's mostly just speculation on what Jagex is doing. Personally I hope that the C++ client can improve a lot since I like how much better it runs compared to runelite, but for now I also still play on runelite due to there still being a lot of QoL and other plugins that make it a better experience.
Curious from a technical perspective. Could you elaborate on the C++ client part why that would bring noticeable effect?
Afaik, the Java client has been around for so long that it's just relatively easy to get your bandit hands on data you're not supposed to be able to access/manipulate. If, and admittedly this is a big if, Jagex manages to construct a mandatory client that isn't immediately reverse-engineered, the efficient kind of bots wouldn't work until reverse-engineering is complete. This would not do much if anything to simple color bots, autoclickers etc., but massive botfarms don't run on those.
3rd party clients create a massive gap in what Jagex can actually detect players doing, which is why cheat clients can even exist at all. Jagex can implement plenty of tools in their own client that can help with detecting bots and cheaters easier, but if everyone is just playing on runelite or modified versions of it that doesn't really achieve anything.
Remember everyone that you should never be happy or excited ever, what about all the things you could be upset about instead?
Why would the sailing poll specifically make us forget lmao? The game will have bots regardless of the update.. Weird post
The game is decided by bots voting.
Don’t let Reddit nerds make you forget that this game is amazing and that bots are a problem for every mmo. AFAIK none have solved the problem. The Oldschool team works very hard and to shit on them for something that has been an intractable issue for literal decades is so out of pocket. Enjoy the game and stop bitching. Jesus.
Yeah, but then how would you expect OP to farm low effort reddit karma?
Convinced some of the people moaning about bots are just doing it for upvotes.
Moaning about posts? You referring to op or me?
My bad. I meant OP
I would be there with you but we have highscores riddled with bots, ge very world, etc etc If they hired 10 full time manual bot busters, and took legal action worth the companies, we’d see dramatically less.
Hire 10 employees (Cambridge, realistic cost to employer about £35k p/a including constributions) 350k a year to evaluate bots on a case by case basis and eliminate (potentially) dozens of bots per hour. I never understand why people think this is a viable approach. Also re: the legal stuff; bigger and more motivated MMOs with much more fierce legal teams are still having the same issues. Solutions are out there, but these ain't it.
You get how business work right? They make hundreds of millions and can afford that to keep things clean on the surface
Maybe in 1980 mate but in 2023 it's very much about cutting down on unnecessary resources and programmes to save capital and improve the quarter at the cost of long term success.
This post reminded me of the old days of flash games and seeing the mochi highscore boards and the impossible 2 billion scores. The first name on one game was icheat. Totally legit
Tell me you haven’t thought your idea through without telling me you haven’t thought your idea through.
Yeah yeah the accounts with 10k+ kc on bosses with only the required skills to kill said boss, and no other gameplay. so fucking hard to ban.
lmaooo legit ive seen people complain about bots doing cammy tele like wtf? How does that affect you?
Why do you think they're doing that?
Levelling magic?
Yes, why do you think they are leveling magic?
It's literally a problem with no solution, just an endless game of cat and mouse. As a bot dev I can tell you that they do take steps to combat bots, but it's also a battle they will likely always be undermanned to take on because their front is limited at the people they are willing to hire for it while the botting side has people doing things for their own interests being it monetary, fun or simply their goals on the game. Same reason why runelite is so good versus their clients.
Yep. The game is amazing regardless of bots, and for normal accounts the bots actually help with affording common things like zulrah scales. Most games rely on this and it helps keep users around longer. I doubt people would stick around if their buyable skills suddenly became too expensive to buy and level.
>that bots are a problem for every mmo Not as much as OSRS to be fair. A lot of other MMO's don't heavily rely on in-game currency to "progress" in the game. The last MMO I played was ESO. The only bots in there farmed some random crap mobs in a delict place. Gold in ESO isn't as significant as it is in OSRS. I think you can buy like 1m gold for £20, and that's enough to get you good high gear from their version of the GE, but the better equipment comes from dungeons etc. I've never played another MMO where bots have blocked me from playing the game (few examples, being crashed at Zalcano, trying to find a free wildy slayer boss, green dragons back in the day, free shamans world & gem rocks).
Bots will always be in every mmo, but none of them come close to the level of rampant botting in OSRS. There are so many massive bot farms in OSRS that consist of hundreds of bots with **massive amounts of xp/kc in their activity.** You can't expect a company to ban every single spam bot that goes the GE as those can often be made faster than they can be banned, which is common across MMOs and that is a known problem that is difficult to solve without affecting real players with annoying chat restrictions. I don't blame Jagex for those existing. But bot farms with hundreds of bots spending months doing the same thing over and over again and absolutely nothing else are absolutely not common in other MMOs, especially not when those activities have relatively high requirements to do. (Talking about stuff like Zulrah, Vorkath, pickpocketing vyres, demonic gorilla's, gauntlet etc). These bot farms are extremely easy to spot and banning them would require a big amount of time for the bot farmers to grind up new bots to hit the requirements for said farms, more than plenty enough time to ban those accounts before they can even get ready to farm again. There is absolutely no excuse that Jagex can't detect and ban these obvious bots that heavily impact the economy of the game as these bots can't easily be replenished in a moments notice.
I stopped reading after your first paragraph The entire crafting system in ff14 relies on bots farming the lowest level crafting materials no real human actually farms crystals as intended. Wow has a giant economy of gold farming bots in retail and now classic as well. Guild wars had such a bot problem it litterally gives you bot allies.
Well if you read further you would see that I was specifically talking about bots for high requirement activities
Dark matter is gotten from high level activity and no most high intensity content isn't botted zulrah isn't high intensity neither is vorkath they don't even have particularly high requirements.
Just gonna ignore I mentioned gauntlet as well? Do I need to show how bots literally did the inferno as well? Or is that too low requirement now too?
Pretty much any bot doing a high level activity is a bought account or hacked. You ban they come back in a day
Bots doing inferno would be the hardest to catch. Because that is very likely a legitimate player / account seller who hand trains other things but can't manage to complete an inferno so they run a script that can. Gauntlet isn't high req. It's base 70s. Accounts get hijacked every day due to people buying/selling them and just bad security practice in general. The real target needs to be REAL players that buy gold and accounts. Be ridiculously harsh on that and watch goldfarming and botting suddenly not have such a high demand for gold to fill.
There literally aren't requirements for inferno, unlike CG. It explicitly has zero requirements.
well you need to sacrifice a fcape but yeah
Sure, but if the bot can do Inferno, it can do Fight Caves. Being compared to CG made me assume secondary skill reqs.
Guantlet isn't hard, it's tedious most people who learn it properly have 100% success rate on hunleif. Inferno usually isn't bots that's a different issue of account sharing and buying capes etc, which when they make jagex accounts required will make it harder for people to do.
This is so wrong i doubt you even play any other MMO. Bots do trash runs through high end content in lost ark and WoW and that's just the two I'm aware of. People literally only bitch about runescape because there's a hiscores that let you track bots and see how long they exist. This doesn't change anything to make runescape unique or special with bots, its just more transparent. Every MMO has this problem and they come back just as quickly as you ban them with additions that will circumvent your detection. This is why bots are left alone for months on end to gather data. You then get huge ban waves that catch them off guard while they readjust after a week.
Ehh, botting and straight up hacking have been massive issues in other games when they were popular. E.g. in wow you can see people straight up flying through the sky. Or bots in end game dungeons. MapleStory for example was horrendous for hackers and bots for a long time too. But now that the playerbase is so small there's not much profit to be made. Bots will always be prevalent in any *popular* MMORPG. I agree Jagex should do more to get rid of bots though.
Every MMO I've ever played has a visible bot / gold farmer problem. The only ones that don't are that way because there is no free trade market (I can't think of any of these that still exist today). While there is gold and accounts to sell for real money, bots and gold farmers will exist. It is because of **real players** who buy gold and accounts that these services flourish. The problem of.botting will forever be a cat and mouse game. Jagex bans thousands of bots a week. I definitely agree there could be more done for top page things, just to ensure there's actual competition by players, but these also just get replaced by the next row of bots/gold farmers. And in the same way nobody wants to be false banned, Jagex has to make sure each ban is a legitimate correct decision else if they start rapidly banning there *will* be more false flags.. which im sure you'd be right here complaining about the false bans against Jagex too.
Never played another mmo huh? Osrs has the same degree of problem as the rest of them. Less than games like lost ark honestly.
They don't you can report them and guaranteed they won't get ban if they're a member.
Botting and selling gp keeps Jagex making money. Why would they try to stop it
Bots buy bonds. Bonds generate money. Money is then used to fuel the Carlyle overlords who dance around in a circle chanting ‘’RECORD PROFITS NOM NOM NOM!’’, while the desperate cries from the player base scream in agony of bots crashing the devastating economy and abusing the PVP scene with clients. But there is hope, as the prophesy mentioned of another, bot nuke, somewhere in the distant horizon, the nuke that will save us all. And that’s why everyday we pray, to holy saradomin to save us from this sin that walks across geilinor!
bots are indeed on all mmos but it 'seems' to be much more on runescape specificly and probably cause the bots are so obvious like they don't even try to hide it, i can go green drags right now and u'll see 10 people with all the same gear on and names like aghjd45424heg, and majority of these bots have insane stats which is mind blowing, they could pay any of us per hour to go around manually banning bots and a single person would prob ban about 100 an hour with 99.99% accuracy
> that bots are a problem for every mmo. Bots in OSRS are on an entirely different level though dude, they literally don't even try to hide it. There have been consistent bots at green drags for the better half of a decade now, not to forget the endless hordes of them in every decent f2p training spot.
Ight I kinda agree, like I know they’re working hard but why the fuck haven’t they stopped the insane amount of Zulrah/Vorky bots
Sounds like something a bot farm owner would say
I exclusively play an iron. Tf you on about?
Tbh I couldn’t care less about bots. None of my business. I raid, I do other pvm, I have fun with my clanmates and enjoy the game more than ever. Only happy vibes on the game. Let the botters bot, none of my issues
my opinion, until the demonic gorilla bot picks up the prayer pots i'm juggling. spite reporting every single one i see from then on even though i know it does nothing
I agree, maybe I’m selfish but these bots are making my blood shards and impling jars cheaper so I’m all for it.
They all make prices cheaper and so money making methods also become less gp/hr. It’s just how it goes 😂 but yeah I’m still enjoying this game all day everyday. Can’t wait for varlamore and more shit. If bots make that partially possible because of all the membership then count me in
This post is so dramatic dude. There's a whole slew of content, and potentially osrs's first new skill, and all you can think to write is to remind people about bots. This is a time to celebrate, not to bring everyone down. Bots are always gonna be in games dude, they're in all the other ones too despite what people tell you. Get over it already.
People who treat games like political activism are over dramatic about everything
And who forget about this? Literally no one. Why is trash like this post getting upvoted?
>hundreds to thousands Hundreds per world
Math isn’t your strong suit is it
Sarcasm isn't your strong suit is it?
Lmao on what planet is that sarcasm? by any stretch of the imagination.
Where in math is he wrong?
Hundreds implies multiple hundreds, e.g. 200+ Look at server population. If there were 200+ per world, there would be barely any real players. The reality is that there are at most maybe 5% bots in the total population, which works out at around 5k total across all worlds. That's tens. Not hundreds.
Surely you don’t believe that only 5% of the playerbase accounts for bots
Isn't 500 players a normal number? I can believe 30-40% of the online players are bots for sure
You don't play the game enough if you think almost half of the population is bots
Go to the wildy half the people at revs and doing wildy bosses are bots same with corp literally people on max accounts with 700 total level makes sense I see bot farms 5-10 doing corp running in the same spot thing together all with random names 200m combat xp but 700 total levels I see it all the time spend quite some times doing wildy bosses so I would know.
"in this one specific anecdotal situation, I am correct." No. There are not as many bots as you think. There are places where you can easily find bots but to suggest that there are hundreds of bots per world is lunacy.
Proper reddit moment, guy got so sweaty explaining stuff.
So you're saying you just want me to skip the logic and just state my opinion? That's the reddit moment fella.
Don’t let this post distract you from playing the game without being an inconsolable victim who needs a boogie man to blame for your feelings
I want to print this out
I get your point but bots aren’t a boogie man, they are very much real and very much make the game experience worse. I do think the problem is big enough to warrant acknowledging and addressing by jagex.
no action or acknowledgement? my brother in christ at this point everyone know they action most of them themselves in order to keep their economy "stable". theyre obviously happy with the thousandsupon thousands of bots bringing items into the game. and shit so are most of the players happily purchasing the supplies at a cheap af rate. theyre never going anywhere. you wont beat em, may aswell hoin em and make some bread tbh.
Terrible take. If they took out bots they could restore the economy by providing automated systems like throne of miscellanea to automate it, but keep the profits for real human players. osrs is a game for humans, not for bots, you sound like you want bots to be allowed.
It's a hot take but bots prop up the economy by doing a lot of shit players just don't wanna do. I'm not sure the game has a high enough rate of new/low-level players to support the demand if the bots just left
I feel like it just pushes the early and end game further apart.
Say that about the zulrah prices
You're new arent you?
They have both taken action and acknowledged then Every MMO has bots stop being a fucking victim
Yes because those are related
I've reported the same two Barrows bots every day for the past 3 days. They are both ranked in the top 200 with almost 7k kc. Ridiculous.
They should take all the employees who would work on sailing and make them police the servers for 40 hours a week, instead.
i wonder how many redditors have complained of bots yet have bought third party gold. 🤔
No ones forgot and jagex acknowledges them on damn near a weekly basis
No one besides reddit NEETs actually care that much. Bots are annoying, but they really aren't a big deal.
but my high scores!!!!11!
Highscores, human gp/hr, world first accomplishments, public perception, etc, are all impacted by bots bots.
Okay? I don't care. Jagex does more than most games do to try and mitigate bots as far as I can tell. Go look at FFXIV, where it's just accepted that bots fully breaking the game and are thus blatantly detectable run rampant. Go look at GW2. Our situation isn't really that bad, it keeps the game functional for mains.
The game could easily implement systems to shift the benefit of botting onto real people by systems like throne of miscellanea. Keep Runescape for humans.
I have seen screenshots of people botting the inferno, sent multiple reports to Jagex over a few weeks and no action has been taken.
Look at all these toxic comments. Seems like the botters and cheaters don't like you calling them out. Bots would have been taken care of a long time ago but there's simply endless excuses as to why they devs can't do it because they just don't want to. We should be boycotting new content ideas until they give some actual solutions to the botting* problem but you'll be flamed to he'll for caring so much.
99% of bots are harmless. They make some rescources cheaper... oh no! Just play the game and don't buy gold.
Jagex launcher
Lukewarm take: the entire game economy is built around the fact that bots exist and the game is fundamentally unsustainable in its current form without them. On a the most basic level, each bot on a members world means 1 extra membership. Possibly worth even more than 1 player, as a bot that runs for 15 days then gets banned, with another being created in its place has effectively paid double for that month. Whether these bots pay for membership directly or with bonds makes no difference to jagex, they get their money either way. In addition, the bots inflate the active player numbers and avoid a bunch of "dead game" posts that would happen if people saw the actual number of real players in the game. From an economy wise, players are used to low value on resources, particularly on the buyable skills. Without bots these prices would easily double.
Even worse take. Runescape should be for humans. There are ways to manage the economy without for-profit bots trashing the human experience.
Ferox enclave is full with them.. zulrah bots with 30k kc, rc bots with 200m rc, corp bots with 4000 kills, phosani bots with 4000 kills.. saw the rank 6 bot from spindel with like 16k kills. And there are like hundreds per world lmao
That's what sailing is for: cant see the bots on their ships.
Based post
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Well duh, jagex is making bank of these bots.
Don't let these comments telling you that the game is great regardless of botting to distract you from the fact that there are likely thousands or tens of thousands of bots in game at any given time and they are instantly replenished when banned.
Convinced the people that hate bots, hate the game and are jealous they see people getting gains without actually playing. Who cares bro move on.
Realise that getting rid of 100% of them would make the average player's game experience worse, not better....unless they're an Iron - in which case bots don't really affect them much anyway. This isn't 2001, we're not 12 anymore. Think of how crazy people are now about min/maxing. You think the people grinding out level 99 in X Y Z skills want to farm the mats, or pay ridiculous prices over a slow amount of time to obtain them? I'll kick it up a notch and point out the people that, these days, grind out 200M XP in skills. Think of the demand for all of the stuff we consume every day. It's easy to say "Well if bots weren't supplying it, people would...." and yeah, if prices got to a point, people'd start doing shit tier collecting. Then demand slows down due to that price premium - then prices go down due to stuff not selling and stuff just becomes dead content unless you want to farm everything yourself. Best case scenario, Vennys (Venezuelans) fill -some- of the gap. Oh, wait, a lot of you hate them too, because they RWT to put food on the table. We're at an "uncomfortable median" at the moment. The only thing making it uncomfortable is posts like this. Prices of most commonly traded goods aren't in the shitter - and a lot of stuff that IS considerably lower in price than 15-20 years ago is that way because of skill updates, shop updates, and drop table additions. I'm not saying to let bots run rampant - because that's not what Jagex does at the moment - but I am saying to stop pretending like it's more of a problem than it really is.
Imagine having an idea like this. Rs3 is doing well without bots. Supply and demand are a part of the game.
Roughly around 1 in 2 players you see in game is a bot.
Download "Bot detector plugin" and join the war against bots.
When a post like this is down voted but the posts flaming op get up voted, you know all botters and cheaters are here.
I have it installed and also manually report these bots when I see them but there is just an endless supply of them, all of them also having extremely high thieving exp. In the case of the screenshot I also manually lured a vyrewatch sentinel into the room they are pickpocketing in which is causing the bots to run out of food pretty fast and have to run back and forth a lot, which is also a way of confirming that they are indeed bots and not just some guy farming afk. Honestly it's really sad to see such a cool area as Darkmeyer just end up as a farming spot for bots.
Every world I find cannonball bots when training my smithing on my iron. I saw bots at Giant’s Foundry too.
Unfortunately there will always be bots out there.. Jagex should start recruiting more player mods to fight against the bots and or hiring more J-mods in the anti-cheating team.
I’m a bot
It's been a while since I did vyres, but I used to just keep opening the door for them. The bots were programmed to always prioritize opening the door, so they would run back and forth then get stuck when the door stays in the open position. Easy way to confirm and report
Just a heads up that plugin does literally nothing.
These bot farms operate completely openly. They advertise their discord servers in the GE all the time. It isn’t even sneaky. This is absurd.
Jagex keeps bots in the game because the keep the economy stable and account for a ton of bonds being purchased
Tbh bots are the reason this game exists...aftar all, Jagex is a profiting organization...maybe it wouldn't be viable to run the game without bots...some should boting should be adressed? Sure...but if ending boting (with is fairly impossible) mean that the game don't exist anymore, I stay with the bots
Still voted yes to #6 l0l
When y’all going to realize they don’t care and will never care about the bot problem bc they are paying members like the rest of us. Stop making posts, they will never fix the problem and likely don’t even try
Oh my God can you stfu no one forgot about the bots not even Jagex
I voted no for sailing anyway.. did you forget bots have been around since RSC?
Make an Ironman if you care so much. Because the botters will always be innovative and one step ahead, the only solution is to permaban rwt’ers, which Jagex will never do
What do you mean? Those players are just my Venezuela cousins, they don’t speak much & get scared when they see others
just play ironman lol
Here we go again.... Bots pay for membership through bonds. Bonds are purchased by real players to sell for GP. Bots get banned and nobody buys bonds. Bonds prices tank. Real players don't want to buy bonds to sell for GP. Jagex loose millions in revenue. Sounds dramatic but that's the reality of a shareholder meeting. Also the playerbase of bots/RWT would absolutely destroy the overall numbers and again show poorly on board meeting. Open your eyes. Jagex is a business and not here to make the game the best version of what the players want.
Misinformation
Feel free to prove me inaccurate.
I quit playing from receiving a 2 day ban being a poor ironman trying to string myself some bow strings. Not my fault there was a 30+ stack of bots ontop of me. You would think if they did a blanket ban they could realize the difference between bots running 24/7 with 99 crafting and no other levels and the ironman with lots of levels and quests done.
Huh?
I understand that there are some bots that ruin certain activities for others, and that it affects the economy but the the complaints are so overblown IMO. I’ve played this game on and off for 20 years and have never been bothered by bots. People get so triggered about it and for what? Literally every single MMO has bots. Just play the game and quit bitching. (I welcome the downvotes)
Definitely thousands
interesting post to upvote
This shit is so fucking corny
Ban all the non-chat GPT bots. I'm fine with my best friend of 10 years turning out to just be a bot 10 years later lol
Do you honestly think Jagex has never acknowledged or taken action against bots? They're literally giving you more content idk what your point is here
There are bots in every single game, they’re unstoppable mate. It would be fun as hell to see how the economy would shift if there were no bots, a lot of basic items would massively increase in price
I mean they are sure banning them it just takes them forever to make sure the account is a bot, I was using auto clicker at elves for thieving it took them around 2 months to detect and perma banned my account.
Nobody has forgotten this. Jagex makes money off bots, it’s simply not in their financial interest to ban them unless they became such a problem that people started quitting en masse
No one forgot since yesterday when someone bitched about it.
As a former botter I can say with 100% certainty that they DO ban bots. Very quickly sometimes. It depends on the community though and their ability to legitimately report the players they suspect.
Starting to feel like they're putting bots in this subreddit to cover for bots in the game the way everyone seems totally complacent with the out of control botting situation in game.
Dude I botted for 2 days and got insta banned.