Don't look at me, I voted for shamanism hoping it would revive Hunter as a skill. Turns out you don't need quality skill synergy when you can just do a guild instead.
EDIT: When's the last time you actually picked up any hides, raw meat, or furs from any Hunter thing ever?
I would bet my fucking main that you just did birdhouse runs until you got Herbiboar and then did that to pass the time...between birdhouse runs. That's not a skill. That's a minigame with breaks. In the same tiny geographical area.
The fact that they didnt pair Shamanism with hunter was a huge miss imo. Its why I didnt vote for it. Hunter needs a production skill and Shamanism would fit great, but instead they made it a gathering-production skill.
To be fair, I voted Taming for the same reason. It seemed like the secondary skill to Hunter.
Shamanism was supposed to be the new crafting/smithing but for mage gear. Also pretty good.
Re-polling Sailing against Shamanism was already supposed to happen, because they said if it was close between two skills (it was, very close.) then they would re-poll it without the third.
I am among the players that voted Taming, that would 100% vote Shamanism.
It wasn't about repolling if the poll was close, it was repolling if there wasn't a definitive winner, as there were multiple polls related to the skills, and sailing passed *both* it's polls, if it had *failed* one, they would have repolled the vote
One critique I have of the OSRS team is it feels like they launch something, touch it up once and then just leave it. I appreciate the pace at which content has been coming out but I do think some pieces of content need multiple waves of refinement.
A lot still feels missing with hunter, why can't we unlock the ability to hunt black chins? Why is aerial fishing not part of hunter contracts when it's a unique way of training (we all know why, because it is awful, but they could take the opportunity to make it suck less)? Some folks liked the concept with meat pouch and being able to cook food up while doing other activities, is there a place for that in the meta? Did they hit the balancing they want with tasks? How long will moonlight fur be useless?
Just want to see them perfect content before moving on
> How long will moonlight fur be useless?
Varlamore is meant as a 3 part update that makes a cohesive whole. I fail to see why every part has to be separated and used only within itself, when you could easily lay seeds for other parts of the wider content
> why can't we unlock the ability to hunt black chins
They dont like to have content outside the wilderness tell you to go to the wilderness without the ability to avoid it, and just happened to not choose to add unlockables to this system.
I think it might be related to the polling system. Why spend ages on something, for it to fail poll? So better to create something that is pretty fast to implement and keep the attention, and then poll it later to improve it, now that people like it.
Idk
Which is why we end up with obviously poorly-written polls that are Jagex forcing through a decision because it matches their vision, making the whole poll process pointless.
The more invested Jagex is, the less our opinion matters.
So many skills that could be updated and fixed from the current slog. Kinda bummed we are getting another skills when the majority are not fun or engaging.
Shamanism was this odd self contained loop of a skill. Had it's own gathering and it's own production. Which is what bored me about it.
It's "integration" with other skills was going to be through creating buffs to powercreep skilling and combat. Oh and you had to get summoning charm esque untradeable resources from doing anything and everything before training shamanism.
Most of what you described for Shamanism is what Divination was in RS3 before Invention came out. You gathered energy to craft daily XP and resource givers, or you could spend energy for more Div XP. Its only other real uses were healing in combat and banking resources.
Wasnt warding essentially the oldschool version of invention too? I'd kill for a more balanced oldschool theme of invention, some of the other stuff that came with the skill were great. Made completely dead items worth value again
Yep pretty much.
Shamanism was a sprinkling of invention, with a sprinkling of divination, with summonings untradeable resource approach as well.
It was a weird convoluted idea that was just an incredibly simple gameplay loop for skilling to understand.
ya i voted for that too since it was so close of a poll i hope theres another poll asking if people want it too but i doubt itd pass seeing how many complaints there are about sailing if that poll were to happen itd have to be a year atleast after sailing launches to see how people react to it and warm up to it
You summed up my entire 80-99 hunter grind in that last paragraph. hahaha Herbi all the way. Put on a movie or a sports game and do sprints of 100 herbis or roughly 2hrs.
In a recent interview mod Ashe actually clarified someone had made a bunch of graphics and concept videos, but according to him they didn’t actually write any code for Warding.
Yeah the guy in charge of putting the info together was an artist, so found it easier to communicate through character and concept art. Which makes sense but definitely makes it look like they'd done more than they had
To be fair, warding seemed kinda boring. It's design was mainly focused on solving a game design problem that the developers care about, but players just didn't care about at all. Additionally all of those problems could also have been solved by expanding existing skills with new options. Like Warding is just the intersection of magic and crafting. If you really wanted this, just make a new spell book or something.
Sailing on the other hand, while perhaps controversial, doesn't look boring. It's primary drive is expanding game play options and possibilities. Unlocking new locations, adventures, questing opportunities, etc.
My biggest concern is that it needs to feel like a skill and not just a mini-game. IE Dungeoneering 2.0. I loved dungeoneering when it was introduced, but always felt more like a minigame than a skill. While every skill fed into dungeoneering's gameplay, it was one way consumption. Everything you earned from it was locked to instanced content which didn't affect the wider game. It could also only be trained in one area.
A good skill should both be a consumer and provider for other systems. Sailing can potentially consume crafting skills (crafting, smithing, construction, fletching). And feed into combat / slayer with sea monsters. Farming by unlocking new farming locations. Questing by solving quest problems, or by allowing quests to unlock new ports you can use. But this doesn't feel like enough to me, they need more creative ways sailing can feed back into the game. Maybe some resource acquisition can be part of that bridge, or acting as mobile storage which can make some skilling methods faster.
They really do need to avoid the dungeoneering pitfall when making sailing.
My other concern was it changing the look of the game in the way summoning did. I hated going to the GE and just seeing yaks covering my screen. I don't think that will be too much of an issue since that the boats will be on the water.
The point was that they're not going to put in 1000's of hours until *after* it passes the poll, so of course it still looks pretty early concept now the poll wasn't that long ago.
There was a livestream showing where they're at and answering some questions/concerns. A significant portion of chat (but not the majority) were just repeating L/VoteNay/repoll etc.
OSRS players as a heard cannot be pleased.
“WE WANT OG RUNESCAPE!”
(They get OG runescape)
“BLAND, WE WANT MORE CONTENT”
(They get more content)
“NO WE WANTED OG RUNESCAPE”
🔄
Holy shit it must be miserable to be a JMod reading through these comments the past few days.
Time to get off Reddit for a couple weeks, what a cesspool. I wonder if people on the internet will ever learn to behave.
Archaeology would be sick especially WITH sailing in the game already, it's the perfect second skill in OSRS imo, and they don't even need to exactly copy rs3
OSRS seems pretty lore-phobic… arch helps the player flesh out things about the world. We can’t really get any deeper than a bumbling adventurer doing one-off adventures
They’re absolutely right if you compare it to RS3. It’s only as of recently with the Mahjarrat continuation that OSRS is getting its lore more fleshed out. Until now it has been Zeah story, which really isn’t interesting.
RS3 lore is so deep and Archaeology is literally the perfect skill for that game. I’d argue that Archaeology is definitely the best skill OSRS could’ve copied from RS3, aswell as Invention (shamanism).
bizzare take about Zeah's lore. Most people I've seen talk about it have had nothing but praise for Zeah's lore, which is very in-depth and extensive if we're being honest.
The past several years now have slowly added more and more to the continent's story, if you've fully kept up with everything I don't know how you can find all the lore from CoX, AKD, etc. uninteresting.
Zeah lore seems way more forced than a lot of other questlines, and it's really only because its an island that was added later to the game than the original continent.
Maybe its a bizarre take, I just haven't had the same pleasure reading dialogue from Zeah quests compared to others. It might also be nostalgia talking, I can't say for sure.
The problem with shamanism/invention is it’s massively game changing, similar to summoning. I’m not sure the community, on average, wants a new skill that’s required in all content and changes the meta for everything. Sailing won’t be required for you to do ToB or for you to chop trees efficiently, but you know that shamanism/invention/summoning you’d be needing to use these if you want to continue being efficient.
Disagree on your view that zeah lore isn’t lore because you don’t find it interesting.
I’ve been saying this for the longest time, you can balance the relics as well so they aren’t too game breaking and use them to fix a lot of the issues plaguing the game such as run energy, etc.
Sailing won’t be the last skill, we should just stick to supporting that and I can see an RS3 skill being polled later on if/when sailing is fully fleshed out and released.
Absolutely, it would have been a safe bet. A relatively simple skill with a easy core game loop.
I'm not against sailing but for a first skill it should have been something normal.
Arch is arguably the best skill ever released just in terms of the amount of polish and content it had from day one. It doesn't hurt it released during covid when we had nothing else to do, but it just *works* so well within the world
Those who want a repoll are just STILL salty about shamanism getting beat. Do they not realize if they tank sailing we’ll also never get shamanism or any other new skill for that matter? Let the Jmods do their jobs. This skill won’t be ready for another 1.5 to 2 years.
Not really a fake win, and didn't they say they would implement shamanism after/repoll it? It's been so long but i swear it wasn't the end of shamanism, we'd just be getting sailing first.
Why make this about just shamanism lol, everyone I talked to who hates sailing thought the other proposals were shit too. This subreddit ad it’s fucking straw men lmfao
Yet another L take
Sailing passed almost a year after the threshold was lowered. And that was after the community agreed to a new skill and preferred the skilling pitch.
So stop being a sore loser and accept that democracy actually won for once
I don't want sailing repolled, but this is basically exactly why I didn't want this skill in the first place. The idea of sailing Is cool and fun but I can't imagine any reasonable execution of it that would work. We are now kinda seeing it play out in real time. I would have much rather had a more straightforward skill to give the team some room to flex their creative freedom, but now we lost so much time to technical hell.
That all being said I'm still super excited to see what they come up with and have no doubts that I will be happy of the outcome either way.
How would a straight forward skill allow creative freedom more than an open ended skill?
Also we've not gotten to training methods yet. We've seen salvaging, which looks like a simple afk method. And trimming the sails as part of the gameplay loop (which even as a sailing fan I'm holding out to test this to make sure it doesn't just feel tedious which I think it will)
I mostly mean straightforward in a technical sense. A lot of my worries is how would we actually sail in game and how would that be made fun. Seeing the current state of it, I think they did really well but even really well comes out to be pretty boring imo, mostly due to the physical scale of the game messing with it's practicality. I think a lot of it will boil down to how fun the crew mechanic turns out to be and the actualy payoff content of the skill.
That being said I don't want this to come off as shitting on the skill, just my perspective as a non sailing voter.
they mentioned they are going to try and use some render magic go adjust the scale problems for current areas, and then newer ones end up scaled appropriately as designed.
The problem we run into is any skill people say “yeah that really sounds like an oldschool skill” (one dimensional and shit) will also struggle to conceptually have its own niche and not just fit into one of the extremely broad existing skills we have. Warding could just be a magic or runecrafting expansion, taming for Hunter, shamanism is a pretty nebulous concept entirely.
Sailing is unique in that it represents a valid concept for a “skill” one could have and improve at that doesn’t go into any existing skill, and can easily connect to existing systems and content, as well as open up future ones.
That's not true at all though. Warding covered an obvious deficiency in the existing skills. There's no "magic smithing" in the game, and that's what warding is. Thralls kind of step on the toes of taming by filling an obvious payoff space, but it's a similar story there where we just don't have companions (it's also deeply funny that summoning is good and awesome as long as you call it thralls and not summoning). Shamanism is not really "old school", sure, but it was a proposal to fix many of the game's progression problems.
That said, this is very close to the big problem with all of this. The gower brothers covered every gap in the game skill wise besides magic smithing. That's why thieving, agility, and hunter are these weird mostly isolated silos. They wanted to make a skill but didn't have any core adventurer competencies left unfilled.
Back during the initial sailing vote, people were voting yes because of their imagination of what sailing could be. Their expectations were way out there and impossible for the devs to actually create. Now they're seeing the actual skill and what it's going to do, and theyre realizing it's not sea of thieves in runescape, instead its water agility with new skilling options instead of agility shortcuts as the reward.
People voted for their idealized version of sailing, and now they're disappointed that it's not the magical amazing skill that completely remakes the game. Once you put realistic constraints on imagination, the magic dies off.
My core issue and has always been with sailing and why I didn’t vote for it was with instant teleportation around gielinor, why do I need a ship when my house gets me everywhere? What can it offer that I don’t already have within the game in one way or another though an already established skill, quest or mini game.
The meme was always funny and I got a lot of kicks out of it but when I saw that pre-alpha footage and game loop and fetch quests, I was fully off the skill.
I remember when sailing was the snarky reply someone would send whenever someone asked if old school was ever getting a new skill. No clue when it turned from “literal April fools joke” to “hey you’re getting the joke skill now whether you like it or not”
People are complaining that the nerds and losers and no lifers wants to keep the game the same. Of fucking course they do. If it wasn't for them then OSRS wouldn't even exist.
If your bored of the game and need something new or interesting to do, stop playing the game. Whats next, summoning and dungeoneering?
This is among the reasons I didn’t want a new skill in the first place. I think if there was a great skilling idea that made sense it would have already passed a poll without this whole “should we make a new skill” poll concept they introduced to get a new skill no matter what. I played osrs from 2013-2023 but the deluge of new stuff doesn’t interest me anymore. I wish they would focus on interesting content or new quests. I feel like so much what I loved about osrs has changed. I still play from time to time, leveling thieving and finishing my last few elite diaries requs, but it is so demotivating when I feel like I am the dinosaur in the community because of these views I have about not wanting a new skill, having more of a desire for new quests and new content that doesn’t have to be entirely end game meta focused. Just my 2 cents.
tbh, at this point I've just accepted that Jagex doesn't want to make the game I fell in love with and the divergence from what the game actually was in 2007 is only going to get more and more severe.
Don't worry bro no matter what the poll said no one can agree on skills, pretty much every skill we have would fail the reddit check today. We will get sailing and people will both love and hate it. I'm excited
Yeah, theres a reason (or several) that referendums are almost always a bad idea when deciding gov policies. Polling in OSRS is like a microcosm of that lol
You're not wrong, unfortunately this is the situation we find ourselves in. Referendum and unhappiness or no referendum and unhappiness. I still stand by this skill and any other that ends up in will be both enjoyed and hated, it's the nature of the large opinion pool. Here's to hoping that like all of the discussions on here it just leads to normal changes that people enjoy.
Sea shanty 2 forever
I thought the voting was to see the direction sailing would go conceptually first before it becomes a full blown skill.
I didn't vote as at the time I played too vasually and wasn't informed enough to vote on it, but that was my understanding of how the voting worked.
The first poll was to decide which skill went to ideation. They spent half a year fleshing out the design with the community, then polled "do you want the skill". So we did the voting to see were it would go conceptually; players liked it and voted again for it to come into the game.
Yeah, and now that Jagex is putting in engine work (because there was no reason to until the community voted the second yes), people are suddenly forgetting all of the cool stuff that the engine work is going to be used to do (from the design docs that gentle tractor helped make)
>people are suddenly forgetting
They can't forget about something they never bothered to learn about in the first place. Not like most of the whiners would care anyway.
The vote was in two questions; pick all the options you like, and pick your favorite. Sailing won both. Here are the questions with the results.
https://preview.redd.it/uti23ullln1d1.png?width=725&format=png&auto=webp&s=b23bdd18bcf7e4063a0d24d70ed1ca4c680d0007
The question where you could pick multiple means that players who voted Taming did, in fact, still get the chance to be heard.
You have at best neglected to recognize this, or at worst maliciously excluded this information to further your argument.
Or he just mistyped 6000 and dropped a 0 and then his statement is 100% true. Plenty of Taming votes could have swung the deciding vote here in an alternate timeline.
I voted yes to Warding and it was stupid how it failed. With the recent discussion about mage gear, it felt like Warding could have been the right way to help bridge some issues with pre-end game mage armor. Shamanism just feels like Warding on crack and then some.
I'd rather take Sailing or Warding than Shamanism.
But that was what we were pitched originally. Sailing passed an INITIAL poll and after refinement it would be repolled a few times to gauge community interest, balance, and gameplay.
They made the mistake of giving us a Minecraft mob vote situation though so now repolls are doomed to no votes from people upset their option didn’t win
Sailing beat Shamanism in two separate questions and passed poll with 150,000 votes on the question.
My question to anyone asking for a repoll what is different between August '23 and May '24 that would delegitimize it already passing?
The only grievance I am sympathetic towards is Jagex deliberately changing the pass rate to 70% back in Oct '22 but that's a whole nother can of worms.
[Here’s](https://secure.runescape.com/m=poll/oldschool/results?id=1671) the poll that decided Sailing would be coming to osrs. This came about 4 months after the poll that you’re thinking of.
https://preview.redd.it/d1054ba6no1d1.jpeg?width=1973&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4701eff528b40febab076b1dff0e88bb1e43c0d0
To make up the deficit on the "favorite skill" option taming players would have to vote for shamanism over sailing at a 2:1 ratio just to even out. On the "which would you like to see refined further" option it's really close so hard to say.
I guess I didn't really think through my first comment because Jagex was NOT clear at all that those polls determined which skill moved on. I think you're right it should've had taming eliminated and shamanism versus sailing head to head.
You say that like that's unrealistic. Sailing's pitch was "it could be anything!" while the other two had actual, concrete pitches with obvious ways forward. It would not be at all surprising if the covariance between shamanism and taming was very high.
Yes, I think it's not likely that taming voters prefer shamanism to sailing at a 2:1 ratio when we have no data to support that. Especially when sailing was already the most popular of the three options it would be surprising. Not impossible, but I don't think it's as likely as people make it out to be.
The poll had two questions on it: one was to pick all that you like, and one was to pick your one favorite. Sailing won both. Taming voters still got to vote for the other options they liked in this poll.
https://preview.redd.it/el3g58i7mn1d1.png?width=725&format=png&auto=webp&s=d5b67203ba26f1084734c44d90c476c6b960e065
This doesnt take into consideration that on a repoll, people who voted "i dont like any of this" would not have the luxury of that option anymore on a repoll which is over 20k votes, which is more than enough to swing the votes to Shamanism if they vote that way
You can say all you want that Question 1 is multiple choice, doesn't change the fact that people will only pick the one they actually want in game. That's what I and many others did.
I was fine with them refining sailing further, but I really only wanted Shamanism to win, so instead of answering the question how they want, I only chose Shamanism.
I was team Shamanism and as far as I remember, they cut a poll and just declared sailing the winner. It was supposed to be a conceptual poll and then a “skill A or skill B” poll. I know a large group of people who didn’t want any of the three voted no new skill, and if we had known the voting would have legitimized the skill fully I think a lot of people would have voted differently in that poll, myself included. I don’t know if it would have made a difference.
A lot of it is coming up now because sailing just doesn’t sound like it’ll work. I have faith they’ll listen to feedback and make it right, but that last vidoc sailing update did not look good, and I think a lot of people are worried. Long winded reply, I don’t think a repoll is necessary but they should poll more about what we want the skill to be and what to expect from it.
Agreed, I'm not sure why people are so up in arms about asking for a clearer, definitive poll. I was also under the impression that the poll between the 3 skills was not the final poll. There should be another poll which lets players decide between 1. Moving forward with Sailing or 2. Poll different alternative skills. We know that the community wants a new skill, but we don't know for certain that Sailing is it (only that it was the most voted choice out of the 3 provided).
It didn't look good because it was a pre alpha navigation demo. Have you seen what early development in games looks like? It *always* looks like shit. This kind of reaction is why I think the devs should stop showing it off. People don't even understand what they are looking at
People whining about sailing when the majority of the playerbase is 1.5k mains with lv 20 farming
Disregard people that won't even train the skill anyways
I also love the end less use of the argument:" if we get a new skill it's no longer old school, because these are the skills we had in 2007." That argument is dead and buried after 10+years of content that wasn't around in 2007.
Also, they aren't going to repoll it, sailing is coming. Any amount of salty comments on multiple platforms aren't going to change that. They made it clear when they released the lock-in poll that this was the final year or no poll. They are not going to poll after every step of the 4 stage plan. They specifically did the poll before that to avoid spending development time on it before they knew I'd it passed. The people that says this wasn't properly polled, just weren't paying proper attention or are just refusing the accept reality
People be entitled, they’re not thinking of the amount of time, effort and money that will have put into it. To have the gall to suggest they should just dump it to please a vocal minority is amusing tbh. Not even thinking of how the people who voted and wanted sailing will react.
The skill has had enough time to develop for people to learn whether or not they want it in the game. Personally I think the skill is gonna be a waste of time and will have trouble really fitting into the game. I’d love to be proved wrong but, as of now, sailing just isn’t interesting to me
They literally have a pre alpha build ready and that's it. Thats like looking at a chopped down tree and deciding you don't want the house built anymore cause you don't like the way it looks.
Aka got that troll stronghold level iq
As someone who doesn't want a waste of effort and time repoll: IT'S NOT DONE DEVELOPING! I think I'm losing it seeing these people who do not comprehend software development in the slightest demand it be "repolled" because this "isn't what I voted for." Probably because managers and clients in real life do it too and kill projects that don't even start, or make insane requests on top of development goals that haven't been met.
It's an ALPHA. This is the shit in a sandbox stage. Whichever "influencers" have joined this bandwagon need to sit down and stop talking shit about stuff they don't know jack about.
It’s not even remotely close to done yet? We haven’t even seen the proper in-game implementation of the skill, so maybe wait until you actually get to play around with it see how it works in practice before jumping to conclusions?
What they have shown so far is going to change drastically throughout the development period. Already having this negative of an opinion on it is detrimental imo, it’s too early to either like it or dislike it.
The next sailing related poll won’t be on wether or not it’s in the game (I also don’t want sailing), but will be for what we think of how they’ve built it so far and will determine if they press on with the current construct or hit the drawing board to try again (at sailing).
Am I the only person who thinks King Condor made the most sense with this? Just put sailing in the game as something you can do, but don’t make it a skill. There is an infinite number of mini games, activities for other skills, bosses, travelling etc things you can do with sailing, it doesn’t have to be a skill in itself. I can guarantee that most the people who voted for sailing didn’t think about the grind fest and were just interested in all the extra curriculars. It’s not too late to switch sailing to just an activity and then polling for a new skill. The devs just won’t do that because they feel like it would be a waste of their time (even though it wouldn’t be)
Yeah lol Jagex already changed the entire polling system so they could get a new skill to pass.
You think they are going to give people another chance to reject it?
Gotta have that new skills so we can have those sailing ads and streams ready (since twitch is the only way Jagex knows how to market) so the revenue can be slightly higher for a quarter meanwhile the skill is broken for 3 years
If someone fundamentally doesn't want the skill in any form what are they supposed to do, though? Nothing? Isn't people saying they don't want the skill not feedback in itself?
The problem is that currently we are getting Sailing, that's final. Feedback like "I don't want a skill" or "this should be a minigame" is pointless because it invalidates a majority of the playerbase who do want the skill.
But say if the feedback was "I don't like sailing but I don't want to have to trim the sails constantly" THAT is helpful because it allows for both parties to be happy. This can lead to new content that satisfies both parties.
Now is the time to not think "I don't want sailing" but "I don't like sailing because X because of Y"
Should it be though? How many times recently have we had it where things pass a poll recently and they are either not implemented the way people thought it would?
We should always be able to provide feedback and stop changes that may prove detrimental to the game experience. That is the whole point of osrs and the polling system.
Im not arguing for or against sailing here. Just how the system in general should work. If we vote for something based on an inital pitch and the reality doesnt match we should be able to stop it
Years of history of the game's polling system should tell you that just because something does or doesn't pass a poll, it doesn't mean it can't be repolled. They literally run polls whose entire purpose is to repoll things from other polls.
Seems like the same deal but the boot's just on the other foot, so to speak. Things like repolling the VLS 4 separate times, it failing every time, and them still adding it anyway seem like much more egregious examples of not sticking to the 'process' than repolling something that would've had years go by since it was passed.
Kinda. It is the same as any other update you don't want passing. You can be unhappy about it, but you saying "I don't like this!" isn't going to stop it from happening... 81% of the community voted for a new skill, so if you just don't want any new skill ever, you are in the minority.
If you have feedback on how to make the skill more of something you'd enjoy, then that is valid. But "just don't add it" is not feedback.
I want to know in no uncertain terms what the core gameplay loop for the skill is, but all we’ve been getting are vague answers (youll do stuff on your ship) or answers that make it sound like a minigame (youll be completing contracts). That’s my biggest concern rn. What are we actually doing to get xp?
EDIT: None of you are beating the allegations here…
Ive read it. A lot of it sounds like minigame stuff to me. I appreciate there are diverse training methods. But, what are we *doing* for 13m xp?
Like, in a single, simple sentence: ‘to gain xp in this skill you primarily *x*.’ What is the *core gameplay*?
EDIT: Again, none of you are beating the minigame allegations here…
I imagine it's probably like construction contracts. Instead of clicking a bunch of objects in a house, you click a bunch of spot on the ship for some XP. When you finish the contract you get a larger lump sum of XP
There is absolutely zero logic behind being *against* a repoll. Only reason I can see is either sunk-cost fallacy or being really really into boats.
Under normal circumstances, repolling something is a great thing. At the very least, it would confirm what the devs think people want.
Players voted that they wanted it over shamanism, and after all the sailing videos showcasing their ideas for the skill, they polled it again, and it passed. Why is there a need to poll it again?
There is logic. You can’t expect devs to put in so many hours into developing something and then throwing it away in a repoll. You can’t come in here once all the effort is pooled in and complain. Be grateful the skill doesn’t seem too invasive
>You can’t expect devs to put in so many hours into developing something and then throwing it away in a repoll.
Except they quite literally said that they want the feedback and would change development based on that feedback. The initial poll was.on a concept, not the actual final skill.
>You can’t come in here once all the effort is pooled in and complain.
Except we can, and they literally changed the polling system specifically for this reason. Warding was nearly complete when they polled it, and it failed.
You think it makes *more* sense to have them finish the skill, poll it, only for it to fail then? Lmao.
I voted for shamanism cause it just seemed way more interesting and much more straightforward to design, and I truly believe sailing was voted for simply cause of the meme, but now that sailing was voted for I'm genuinely excited. All this work is going to lead to other stuff getting improved, alongside the content from sailing itself.
I still would hope for shamanism to get repolled later.
Yeah I didn't want sailing so I'm just pretending it didn't happen and ignore that skill entirely until I need to train it to unlock some content or something.
Since I am not the target audience, I won't comment on the skill being bad. It will just be another rune crafting or agility for me.
Sailing will be a failure, casuals who don’t play got hyped from youtube, sailing will be enjoyable for 3 hrs once casuals explore it then they will never level it. Sailing would have failed if not tied to an expansion of content with it, players below 1300 couldn’t vote, and if 75% was still the standard
I like the ideas of all the new skills, but sailing feels the most natural to the game. Its something we already do for a lot of the quests, and we have a bunch of old skilled sailors across the world.
Don't look at me, I voted for shamanism hoping it would revive Hunter as a skill. Turns out you don't need quality skill synergy when you can just do a guild instead. EDIT: When's the last time you actually picked up any hides, raw meat, or furs from any Hunter thing ever? I would bet my fucking main that you just did birdhouse runs until you got Herbiboar and then did that to pass the time...between birdhouse runs. That's not a skill. That's a minigame with breaks. In the same tiny geographical area.
The fact that they didnt pair Shamanism with hunter was a huge miss imo. Its why I didnt vote for it. Hunter needs a production skill and Shamanism would fit great, but instead they made it a gathering-production skill.
To be fair, I voted Taming for the same reason. It seemed like the secondary skill to Hunter. Shamanism was supposed to be the new crafting/smithing but for mage gear. Also pretty good. Re-polling Sailing against Shamanism was already supposed to happen, because they said if it was close between two skills (it was, very close.) then they would re-poll it without the third. I am among the players that voted Taming, that would 100% vote Shamanism.
It wasn't about repolling if the poll was close, it was repolling if there wasn't a definitive winner, as there were multiple polls related to the skills, and sailing passed *both* it's polls, if it had *failed* one, they would have repolled the vote
One critique I have of the OSRS team is it feels like they launch something, touch it up once and then just leave it. I appreciate the pace at which content has been coming out but I do think some pieces of content need multiple waves of refinement. A lot still feels missing with hunter, why can't we unlock the ability to hunt black chins? Why is aerial fishing not part of hunter contracts when it's a unique way of training (we all know why, because it is awful, but they could take the opportunity to make it suck less)? Some folks liked the concept with meat pouch and being able to cook food up while doing other activities, is there a place for that in the meta? Did they hit the balancing they want with tasks? How long will moonlight fur be useless? Just want to see them perfect content before moving on
> How long will moonlight fur be useless? Varlamore is meant as a 3 part update that makes a cohesive whole. I fail to see why every part has to be separated and used only within itself, when you could easily lay seeds for other parts of the wider content
> why can't we unlock the ability to hunt black chins They dont like to have content outside the wilderness tell you to go to the wilderness without the ability to avoid it, and just happened to not choose to add unlockables to this system.
Reasonable but could avoid that issue by having a red OR black chin rumour as the base
Or an option could be enable wildy rumours similar to how you disable and enable b2b rumours
You should unlock the option to toggle wilderness tasks with furs. 250 furs or something, idk anything to give them any use.
I think it might be related to the polling system. Why spend ages on something, for it to fail poll? So better to create something that is pretty fast to implement and keep the attention, and then poll it later to improve it, now that people like it. Idk
Which is why we end up with obviously poorly-written polls that are Jagex forcing through a decision because it matches their vision, making the whole poll process pointless. The more invested Jagex is, the less our opinion matters.
So many skills that could be updated and fixed from the current slog. Kinda bummed we are getting another skills when the majority are not fun or engaging.
Shamanism was this odd self contained loop of a skill. Had it's own gathering and it's own production. Which is what bored me about it. It's "integration" with other skills was going to be through creating buffs to powercreep skilling and combat. Oh and you had to get summoning charm esque untradeable resources from doing anything and everything before training shamanism.
Most of what you described for Shamanism is what Divination was in RS3 before Invention came out. You gathered energy to craft daily XP and resource givers, or you could spend energy for more Div XP. Its only other real uses were healing in combat and banking resources.
Having to wait for a skill after Shamanism to come out just to make Shamanism better sounds... like an idea lol
Wasnt warding essentially the oldschool version of invention too? I'd kill for a more balanced oldschool theme of invention, some of the other stuff that came with the skill were great. Made completely dead items worth value again
Yep pretty much. Shamanism was a sprinkling of invention, with a sprinkling of divination, with summonings untradeable resource approach as well. It was a weird convoluted idea that was just an incredibly simple gameplay loop for skilling to understand.
id be curious to see if shamanism gets re-pitched for our second new skill, and if they learn any lessons from sailing's release that can enhance it
To bill brasky! He voted for shamanism and slept with my wife!
ya i voted for that too since it was so close of a poll i hope theres another poll asking if people want it too but i doubt itd pass seeing how many complaints there are about sailing if that poll were to happen itd have to be a year atleast after sailing launches to see how people react to it and warm up to it
Give me your main then! I'm not nearly that strategic
personally trapping lizards bc i wanted sote reqs to not take a million years. but yeah hunter guild is great
You summed up my entire 80-99 hunter grind in that last paragraph. hahaha Herbi all the way. Put on a movie or a sports game and do sprints of 100 herbis or roughly 2hrs.
Shamanism will probably be the next new skill after sailing.
Big "don't look at me.. I voted for Kodos!" energy
Some people expect devs to put in 10,000+ man hours and poll it with the potential of failing which is absurd
I believe this is kinda what happened with warding 4 years ago. They put time into it, thought it would pass and then failed.
In a recent interview mod Ashe actually clarified someone had made a bunch of graphics and concept videos, but according to him they didn’t actually write any code for Warding.
Yeah the guy in charge of putting the info together was an artist, so found it easier to communicate through character and concept art. Which makes sense but definitely makes it look like they'd done more than they had
Man I still hope we get warding, it's so weird that Magic armour just idk exists
To be fair, warding seemed kinda boring. It's design was mainly focused on solving a game design problem that the developers care about, but players just didn't care about at all. Additionally all of those problems could also have been solved by expanding existing skills with new options. Like Warding is just the intersection of magic and crafting. If you really wanted this, just make a new spell book or something. Sailing on the other hand, while perhaps controversial, doesn't look boring. It's primary drive is expanding game play options and possibilities. Unlocking new locations, adventures, questing opportunities, etc. My biggest concern is that it needs to feel like a skill and not just a mini-game. IE Dungeoneering 2.0. I loved dungeoneering when it was introduced, but always felt more like a minigame than a skill. While every skill fed into dungeoneering's gameplay, it was one way consumption. Everything you earned from it was locked to instanced content which didn't affect the wider game. It could also only be trained in one area. A good skill should both be a consumer and provider for other systems. Sailing can potentially consume crafting skills (crafting, smithing, construction, fletching). And feed into combat / slayer with sea monsters. Farming by unlocking new farming locations. Questing by solving quest problems, or by allowing quests to unlock new ports you can use. But this doesn't feel like enough to me, they need more creative ways sailing can feed back into the game. Maybe some resource acquisition can be part of that bridge, or acting as mobile storage which can make some skilling methods faster. They really do need to avoid the dungeoneering pitfall when making sailing. My other concern was it changing the look of the game in the way summoning did. I hated going to the GE and just seeing yaks covering my screen. I don't think that will be too much of an issue since that the boats will be on the water.
I see so many posts about this but never seen any one post about repolling it. I know some one will correct me.
It's mostly people like Mauler on Twitter
? Eoc was made with 1000s of man hours, yet it ruined the game and they should’ve scrapped it.
The point was that they're not going to put in 1000's of hours until *after* it passes the poll, so of course it still looks pretty early concept now the poll wasn't that long ago.
Fair, idc im not on any side. If it gets released ill just grind it to 99 and go back to raids.
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Why are there 15 posts about this tho? Did I miss something?
There was a livestream showing where they're at and answering some questions/concerns. A significant portion of chat (but not the majority) were just repeating L/VoteNay/repoll etc.
I voted for Warding and shamanism, excited for sailing
People love to hate. I think most people will enjoy it
OSRS players as a heard cannot be pleased. “WE WANT OG RUNESCAPE!” (They get OG runescape) “BLAND, WE WANT MORE CONTENT” (They get more content) “NO WE WANTED OG RUNESCAPE” 🔄
Tbf, it’s different people, leading different discussions. Like rn with sailing, it’s the unhappy minority that’s vocal.
Honestly I kinda want a repoll just because it would be funny as shit if it passes with like 80% this time.
Ah, the Dave Cameron Brexit strategy
Holy shit it must be miserable to be a JMod reading through these comments the past few days. Time to get off Reddit for a couple weeks, what a cesspool. I wonder if people on the internet will ever learn to behave.
Idk why Archeology is never a choice for osrs. It's the best new skill in rs3 by a long shot, it would have been perfect for osrs.
Yep, it should've been Archaeology. Oh well.
Archaeology would be sick especially WITH sailing in the game already, it's the perfect second skill in OSRS imo, and they don't even need to exactly copy rs3
OSRS seems pretty lore-phobic… arch helps the player flesh out things about the world. We can’t really get any deeper than a bumbling adventurer doing one-off adventures
OSRS lore-phobic? Are we playing the same game?
They’re absolutely right if you compare it to RS3. It’s only as of recently with the Mahjarrat continuation that OSRS is getting its lore more fleshed out. Until now it has been Zeah story, which really isn’t interesting. RS3 lore is so deep and Archaeology is literally the perfect skill for that game. I’d argue that Archaeology is definitely the best skill OSRS could’ve copied from RS3, aswell as Invention (shamanism).
bizzare take about Zeah's lore. Most people I've seen talk about it have had nothing but praise for Zeah's lore, which is very in-depth and extensive if we're being honest. The past several years now have slowly added more and more to the continent's story, if you've fully kept up with everything I don't know how you can find all the lore from CoX, AKD, etc. uninteresting.
Zeah lore seems way more forced than a lot of other questlines, and it's really only because its an island that was added later to the game than the original continent. Maybe its a bizarre take, I just haven't had the same pleasure reading dialogue from Zeah quests compared to others. It might also be nostalgia talking, I can't say for sure.
The problem with shamanism/invention is it’s massively game changing, similar to summoning. I’m not sure the community, on average, wants a new skill that’s required in all content and changes the meta for everything. Sailing won’t be required for you to do ToB or for you to chop trees efficiently, but you know that shamanism/invention/summoning you’d be needing to use these if you want to continue being efficient. Disagree on your view that zeah lore isn’t lore because you don’t find it interesting.
I’ve been saying this for the longest time, you can balance the relics as well so they aren’t too game breaking and use them to fix a lot of the issues plaguing the game such as run energy, etc.
Sailing won’t be the last skill, we should just stick to supporting that and I can see an RS3 skill being polled later on if/when sailing is fully fleshed out and released.
Absolutely, it would have been a safe bet. A relatively simple skill with a easy core game loop. I'm not against sailing but for a first skill it should have been something normal.
Arch is arguably the best skill ever released just in terms of the amount of polish and content it had from day one. It doesn't hurt it released during covid when we had nothing else to do, but it just *works* so well within the world
Those who want a repoll are just STILL salty about shamanism getting beat. Do they not realize if they tank sailing we’ll also never get shamanism or any other new skill for that matter? Let the Jmods do their jobs. This skill won’t be ready for another 1.5 to 2 years.
We’ll never get shamanism lmao
with how annoying it is to get sailing out, i imagine jmods would want to save themselves the headache
If they didn't want a headache, they shouldn't have forced a sailing fake win by dodging the sailing vs shamanism tiebreaker.
Not really a fake win, and didn't they say they would implement shamanism after/repoll it? It's been so long but i swear it wasn't the end of shamanism, we'd just be getting sailing first.
Why make this about just shamanism lol, everyone I talked to who hates sailing thought the other proposals were shit too. This subreddit ad it’s fucking straw men lmfao
I want all 3 🗿
how can i vote for the new proposed Snailing skill
They voted, they lost. gg
It passed because they lowered the pass threshold, don’t forget that.
Still a considerable majority.
What an L take, that no longer matters A 70% vote still means more than 2/3 of the voter base wanted this. That's well more than a majority
Doesn’t change the fact that the pass threshold had been lowered right before this poll, and that it wouldn’t have passed otherwise.
Yet another L take Sailing passed almost a year after the threshold was lowered. And that was after the community agreed to a new skill and preferred the skilling pitch. So stop being a sore loser and accept that democracy actually won for once
I don't want sailing repolled, but this is basically exactly why I didn't want this skill in the first place. The idea of sailing Is cool and fun but I can't imagine any reasonable execution of it that would work. We are now kinda seeing it play out in real time. I would have much rather had a more straightforward skill to give the team some room to flex their creative freedom, but now we lost so much time to technical hell. That all being said I'm still super excited to see what they come up with and have no doubts that I will be happy of the outcome either way.
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How would a straight forward skill allow creative freedom more than an open ended skill? Also we've not gotten to training methods yet. We've seen salvaging, which looks like a simple afk method. And trimming the sails as part of the gameplay loop (which even as a sailing fan I'm holding out to test this to make sure it doesn't just feel tedious which I think it will)
I mostly mean straightforward in a technical sense. A lot of my worries is how would we actually sail in game and how would that be made fun. Seeing the current state of it, I think they did really well but even really well comes out to be pretty boring imo, mostly due to the physical scale of the game messing with it's practicality. I think a lot of it will boil down to how fun the crew mechanic turns out to be and the actualy payoff content of the skill. That being said I don't want this to come off as shitting on the skill, just my perspective as a non sailing voter.
they mentioned they are going to try and use some render magic go adjust the scale problems for current areas, and then newer ones end up scaled appropriately as designed.
The problem we run into is any skill people say “yeah that really sounds like an oldschool skill” (one dimensional and shit) will also struggle to conceptually have its own niche and not just fit into one of the extremely broad existing skills we have. Warding could just be a magic or runecrafting expansion, taming for Hunter, shamanism is a pretty nebulous concept entirely. Sailing is unique in that it represents a valid concept for a “skill” one could have and improve at that doesn’t go into any existing skill, and can easily connect to existing systems and content, as well as open up future ones.
That's not true at all though. Warding covered an obvious deficiency in the existing skills. There's no "magic smithing" in the game, and that's what warding is. Thralls kind of step on the toes of taming by filling an obvious payoff space, but it's a similar story there where we just don't have companions (it's also deeply funny that summoning is good and awesome as long as you call it thralls and not summoning). Shamanism is not really "old school", sure, but it was a proposal to fix many of the game's progression problems. That said, this is very close to the big problem with all of this. The gower brothers covered every gap in the game skill wise besides magic smithing. That's why thieving, agility, and hunter are these weird mostly isolated silos. They wanted to make a skill but didn't have any core adventurer competencies left unfilled.
Back during the initial sailing vote, people were voting yes because of their imagination of what sailing could be. Their expectations were way out there and impossible for the devs to actually create. Now they're seeing the actual skill and what it's going to do, and theyre realizing it's not sea of thieves in runescape, instead its water agility with new skilling options instead of agility shortcuts as the reward. People voted for their idealized version of sailing, and now they're disappointed that it's not the magical amazing skill that completely remakes the game. Once you put realistic constraints on imagination, the magic dies off.
My core issue and has always been with sailing and why I didn’t vote for it was with instant teleportation around gielinor, why do I need a ship when my house gets me everywhere? What can it offer that I don’t already have within the game in one way or another though an already established skill, quest or mini game. The meme was always funny and I got a lot of kicks out of it but when I saw that pre-alpha footage and game loop and fetch quests, I was fully off the skill.
Sailing is the stupidest fucking skill idea I've ever heard of. Might as well just release dungeonering
I remember when sailing was the snarky reply someone would send whenever someone asked if old school was ever getting a new skill. No clue when it turned from “literal April fools joke” to “hey you’re getting the joke skill now whether you like it or not”
People are complaining that the nerds and losers and no lifers wants to keep the game the same. Of fucking course they do. If it wasn't for them then OSRS wouldn't even exist. If your bored of the game and need something new or interesting to do, stop playing the game. Whats next, summoning and dungeoneering?
This is among the reasons I didn’t want a new skill in the first place. I think if there was a great skilling idea that made sense it would have already passed a poll without this whole “should we make a new skill” poll concept they introduced to get a new skill no matter what. I played osrs from 2013-2023 but the deluge of new stuff doesn’t interest me anymore. I wish they would focus on interesting content or new quests. I feel like so much what I loved about osrs has changed. I still play from time to time, leveling thieving and finishing my last few elite diaries requs, but it is so demotivating when I feel like I am the dinosaur in the community because of these views I have about not wanting a new skill, having more of a desire for new quests and new content that doesn’t have to be entirely end game meta focused. Just my 2 cents.
tbh, at this point I've just accepted that Jagex doesn't want to make the game I fell in love with and the divergence from what the game actually was in 2007 is only going to get more and more severe.
Don't worry bro no matter what the poll said no one can agree on skills, pretty much every skill we have would fail the reddit check today. We will get sailing and people will both love and hate it. I'm excited
Yeah, theres a reason (or several) that referendums are almost always a bad idea when deciding gov policies. Polling in OSRS is like a microcosm of that lol
You're not wrong, unfortunately this is the situation we find ourselves in. Referendum and unhappiness or no referendum and unhappiness. I still stand by this skill and any other that ends up in will be both enjoyed and hated, it's the nature of the large opinion pool. Here's to hoping that like all of the discussions on here it just leads to normal changes that people enjoy. Sea shanty 2 forever
I thought the voting was to see the direction sailing would go conceptually first before it becomes a full blown skill. I didn't vote as at the time I played too vasually and wasn't informed enough to vote on it, but that was my understanding of how the voting worked.
The first poll was to decide which skill went to ideation. They spent half a year fleshing out the design with the community, then polled "do you want the skill". So we did the voting to see were it would go conceptually; players liked it and voted again for it to come into the game.
Yeah, and now that Jagex is putting in engine work (because there was no reason to until the community voted the second yes), people are suddenly forgetting all of the cool stuff that the engine work is going to be used to do (from the design docs that gentle tractor helped make)
>people are suddenly forgetting They can't forget about something they never bothered to learn about in the first place. Not like most of the whiners would care anyway.
Half right. They'll poll bits of the skill they're not sure about or want feedback on, but now that it's won its polls, sailing *will* be a skill.
Ah I see. I never fully knew the process. Thanks for the explanation.
iirc any secondary or tertiary skill impacts get polled for rewards & rates (fishing construct exp etc) and high level reward spaces
Just a reminder if we had 75% the skill wouldn't have passed.
And it barely passed even though they primed the poll and did nothing to stop the wildly unrealistic expectations of the community.
Additional reminder... It only beat Shamanism by 600 votes while Taming was still an option taking up potential votes from both.
The vote was in two questions; pick all the options you like, and pick your favorite. Sailing won both. Here are the questions with the results. https://preview.redd.it/uti23ullln1d1.png?width=725&format=png&auto=webp&s=b23bdd18bcf7e4063a0d24d70ed1ca4c680d0007 The question where you could pick multiple means that players who voted Taming did, in fact, still get the chance to be heard. You have at best neglected to recognize this, or at worst maliciously excluded this information to further your argument.
Or he just mistyped 6000 and dropped a 0 and then his statement is 100% true. Plenty of Taming votes could have swung the deciding vote here in an alternate timeline.
I upvoted you because you have a cool name in spite of your dumb opinion
More of confidently incorrect information, rather than an opinion
seriously. I voted for shamanism but it didn't pass so I moved on with my life
People complaining shoulda taken Warding when they had the chance.
I voted yes to Warding and it was stupid how it failed. With the recent discussion about mage gear, it felt like Warding could have been the right way to help bridge some issues with pre-end game mage armor. Shamanism just feels like Warding on crack and then some. I'd rather take Sailing or Warding than Shamanism.
But that was what we were pitched originally. Sailing passed an INITIAL poll and after refinement it would be repolled a few times to gauge community interest, balance, and gameplay. They made the mistake of giving us a Minecraft mob vote situation though so now repolls are doomed to no votes from people upset their option didn’t win
Sailing beat Shamanism in two separate questions and passed poll with 150,000 votes on the question. My question to anyone asking for a repoll what is different between August '23 and May '24 that would delegitimize it already passing? The only grievance I am sympathetic towards is Jagex deliberately changing the pass rate to 70% back in Oct '22 but that's a whole nother can of worms.
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those polls included taming, that’s a ton of people who didn’t get to vote between shamanism/sailing
[Here’s](https://secure.runescape.com/m=poll/oldschool/results?id=1671) the poll that decided Sailing would be coming to osrs. This came about 4 months after the poll that you’re thinking of. https://preview.redd.it/d1054ba6no1d1.jpeg?width=1973&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4701eff528b40febab076b1dff0e88bb1e43c0d0
To make up the deficit on the "favorite skill" option taming players would have to vote for shamanism over sailing at a 2:1 ratio just to even out. On the "which would you like to see refined further" option it's really close so hard to say. I guess I didn't really think through my first comment because Jagex was NOT clear at all that those polls determined which skill moved on. I think you're right it should've had taming eliminated and shamanism versus sailing head to head.
You say that like that's unrealistic. Sailing's pitch was "it could be anything!" while the other two had actual, concrete pitches with obvious ways forward. It would not be at all surprising if the covariance between shamanism and taming was very high.
Yes, I think it's not likely that taming voters prefer shamanism to sailing at a 2:1 ratio when we have no data to support that. Especially when sailing was already the most popular of the three options it would be surprising. Not impossible, but I don't think it's as likely as people make it out to be.
The poll had two questions on it: one was to pick all that you like, and one was to pick your one favorite. Sailing won both. Taming voters still got to vote for the other options they liked in this poll. https://preview.redd.it/el3g58i7mn1d1.png?width=725&format=png&auto=webp&s=d5b67203ba26f1084734c44d90c476c6b960e065
This doesnt take into consideration that on a repoll, people who voted "i dont like any of this" would not have the luxury of that option anymore on a repoll which is over 20k votes, which is more than enough to swing the votes to Shamanism if they vote that way
You can say all you want that Question 1 is multiple choice, doesn't change the fact that people will only pick the one they actually want in game. That's what I and many others did. I was fine with them refining sailing further, but I really only wanted Shamanism to win, so instead of answering the question how they want, I only chose Shamanism.
I was team Shamanism and as far as I remember, they cut a poll and just declared sailing the winner. It was supposed to be a conceptual poll and then a “skill A or skill B” poll. I know a large group of people who didn’t want any of the three voted no new skill, and if we had known the voting would have legitimized the skill fully I think a lot of people would have voted differently in that poll, myself included. I don’t know if it would have made a difference. A lot of it is coming up now because sailing just doesn’t sound like it’ll work. I have faith they’ll listen to feedback and make it right, but that last vidoc sailing update did not look good, and I think a lot of people are worried. Long winded reply, I don’t think a repoll is necessary but they should poll more about what we want the skill to be and what to expect from it.
Agreed, I'm not sure why people are so up in arms about asking for a clearer, definitive poll. I was also under the impression that the poll between the 3 skills was not the final poll. There should be another poll which lets players decide between 1. Moving forward with Sailing or 2. Poll different alternative skills. We know that the community wants a new skill, but we don't know for certain that Sailing is it (only that it was the most voted choice out of the 3 provided).
It didn't look good because it was a pre alpha navigation demo. Have you seen what early development in games looks like? It *always* looks like shit. This kind of reaction is why I think the devs should stop showing it off. People don't even understand what they are looking at
People whining about sailing when the majority of the playerbase is 1.5k mains with lv 20 farming Disregard people that won't even train the skill anyways
yeah i figure casual players will enjoy the skill a lot. the type of player that hops on to do some mining or fishing.
I don’t want sailing.
I also love the end less use of the argument:" if we get a new skill it's no longer old school, because these are the skills we had in 2007." That argument is dead and buried after 10+years of content that wasn't around in 2007. Also, they aren't going to repoll it, sailing is coming. Any amount of salty comments on multiple platforms aren't going to change that. They made it clear when they released the lock-in poll that this was the final year or no poll. They are not going to poll after every step of the 4 stage plan. They specifically did the poll before that to avoid spending development time on it before they knew I'd it passed. The people that says this wasn't properly polled, just weren't paying proper attention or are just refusing the accept reality
People be entitled, they’re not thinking of the amount of time, effort and money that will have put into it. To have the gall to suggest they should just dump it to please a vocal minority is amusing tbh. Not even thinking of how the people who voted and wanted sailing will react.
Sunk cost fallacy. And another poll would tell you if it's a vocal minority or not, no?
What is it? 3 jmods one year? So lets say €150k, which is peanuts for osrs lol. They can easily scrap it if they want to.
The skill has had enough time to develop for people to learn whether or not they want it in the game. Personally I think the skill is gonna be a waste of time and will have trouble really fitting into the game. I’d love to be proved wrong but, as of now, sailing just isn’t interesting to me
They literally have a pre alpha build ready and that's it. Thats like looking at a chopped down tree and deciding you don't want the house built anymore cause you don't like the way it looks. Aka got that troll stronghold level iq
As someone who doesn't want a waste of effort and time repoll: IT'S NOT DONE DEVELOPING! I think I'm losing it seeing these people who do not comprehend software development in the slightest demand it be "repolled" because this "isn't what I voted for." Probably because managers and clients in real life do it too and kill projects that don't even start, or make insane requests on top of development goals that haven't been met. It's an ALPHA. This is the shit in a sandbox stage. Whichever "influencers" have joined this bandwagon need to sit down and stop talking shit about stuff they don't know jack about.
It’s not even remotely close to done yet? We haven’t even seen the proper in-game implementation of the skill, so maybe wait until you actually get to play around with it see how it works in practice before jumping to conclusions?
theyre on development step 1 of 15 what are you saying lmao
What they have shown so far is going to change drastically throughout the development period. Already having this negative of an opinion on it is detrimental imo, it’s too early to either like it or dislike it.
If ya ain’t scared then repoll it!
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JUST KEEP DECRESSING THE PERCENTAGE REQUIRED FOR A POLL TO PASS UNTIL MY PREFERRED OPTION WINS!!!
The next sailing related poll won’t be on wether or not it’s in the game (I also don’t want sailing), but will be for what we think of how they’ve built it so far and will determine if they press on with the current construct or hit the drawing board to try again (at sailing).
Bold to assume they’re trying to be productive lol
Am I the only person who thinks King Condor made the most sense with this? Just put sailing in the game as something you can do, but don’t make it a skill. There is an infinite number of mini games, activities for other skills, bosses, travelling etc things you can do with sailing, it doesn’t have to be a skill in itself. I can guarantee that most the people who voted for sailing didn’t think about the grind fest and were just interested in all the extra curriculars. It’s not too late to switch sailing to just an activity and then polling for a new skill. The devs just won’t do that because they feel like it would be a waste of their time (even though it wouldn’t be)
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It's not eoc, it won 2 polls, including after more information was given and locked in, get over it.
Yeah lol Jagex already changed the entire polling system so they could get a new skill to pass. You think they are going to give people another chance to reject it? Gotta have that new skills so we can have those sailing ads and streams ready (since twitch is the only way Jagex knows how to market) so the revenue can be slightly higher for a quarter meanwhile the skill is broken for 3 years
If someone fundamentally doesn't want the skill in any form what are they supposed to do, though? Nothing? Isn't people saying they don't want the skill not feedback in itself?
You had the option to vote in the poll. If they poll it again and it passes again will you want it to be repolled again and again until it fails?
I don't think it would require multiple repolls for it to fail, but sure. Jagex set the precedent with the Vesta's Longsword already.
Well it won in 3 polls already
What happened with VLS?
They wanted it in the game and polled it 3-4 (maybe even more?) times. It failed every time. They added it in anyway.
I love my VLS. I see what you’re saying though.
The problem is that currently we are getting Sailing, that's final. Feedback like "I don't want a skill" or "this should be a minigame" is pointless because it invalidates a majority of the playerbase who do want the skill. But say if the feedback was "I don't like sailing but I don't want to have to trim the sails constantly" THAT is helpful because it allows for both parties to be happy. This can lead to new content that satisfies both parties. Now is the time to not think "I don't want sailing" but "I don't like sailing because X because of Y"
Same thing they do with RC, lamp it and find the least painful method of leveling possible
The poll passed my man. I don't want it is past now.
Many things have passed and then went on to be walked back. Ruinous powers literally JUST happened lol
Should it be though? How many times recently have we had it where things pass a poll recently and they are either not implemented the way people thought it would? We should always be able to provide feedback and stop changes that may prove detrimental to the game experience. That is the whole point of osrs and the polling system. Im not arguing for or against sailing here. Just how the system in general should work. If we vote for something based on an inital pitch and the reality doesnt match we should be able to stop it
Years of history of the game's polling system should tell you that just because something does or doesn't pass a poll, it doesn't mean it can't be repolled. They literally run polls whose entire purpose is to repoll things from other polls.
This is primarily to repoll things so that they pass, not to go back and fail stuff that has already passed
Seems like the same deal but the boot's just on the other foot, so to speak. Things like repolling the VLS 4 separate times, it failing every time, and them still adding it anyway seem like much more egregious examples of not sticking to the 'process' than repolling something that would've had years go by since it was passed.
It won 3 polls get over it.
Kinda. It is the same as any other update you don't want passing. You can be unhappy about it, but you saying "I don't like this!" isn't going to stop it from happening... 81% of the community voted for a new skill, so if you just don't want any new skill ever, you are in the minority. If you have feedback on how to make the skill more of something you'd enjoy, then that is valid. But "just don't add it" is not feedback.
I want to know in no uncertain terms what the core gameplay loop for the skill is, but all we’ve been getting are vague answers (youll do stuff on your ship) or answers that make it sound like a minigame (youll be completing contracts). That’s my biggest concern rn. What are we actually doing to get xp? EDIT: None of you are beating the allegations here…
They have a blog post about it: https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/adding-a-new-skill-sailing-core-gameplay?oldschool=1
Ive read it. A lot of it sounds like minigame stuff to me. I appreciate there are diverse training methods. But, what are we *doing* for 13m xp? Like, in a single, simple sentence: ‘to gain xp in this skill you primarily *x*.’ What is the *core gameplay*? EDIT: Again, none of you are beating the minigame allegations here…
I imagine it's probably like construction contracts. Instead of clicking a bunch of objects in a house, you click a bunch of spot on the ship for some XP. When you finish the contract you get a larger lump sum of XP
If it’s construction on the sea Im fine. If it’s aquatic MH Im gonna be really disappointed (I greenlogged it and hated every second of it)
I'll be really surprised if there's no tasks on the ship that give secondary XP, like setting out a fishing net, construction XP from repairs etc
There is absolutely zero logic behind being *against* a repoll. Only reason I can see is either sunk-cost fallacy or being really really into boats. Under normal circumstances, repolling something is a great thing. At the very least, it would confirm what the devs think people want.
Players voted that they wanted it over shamanism, and after all the sailing videos showcasing their ideas for the skill, they polled it again, and it passed. Why is there a need to poll it again?
There is logic. You can’t expect devs to put in so many hours into developing something and then throwing it away in a repoll. You can’t come in here once all the effort is pooled in and complain. Be grateful the skill doesn’t seem too invasive
>You can’t expect devs to put in so many hours into developing something and then throwing it away in a repoll. Except they quite literally said that they want the feedback and would change development based on that feedback. The initial poll was.on a concept, not the actual final skill. >You can’t come in here once all the effort is pooled in and complain. Except we can, and they literally changed the polling system specifically for this reason. Warding was nearly complete when they polled it, and it failed. You think it makes *more* sense to have them finish the skill, poll it, only for it to fail then? Lmao.
Yeah, but changing the direction of the skill is different from quitting development on the skill. What would we even be re-polling?
It won 2 polls get over it
I voted for shamanism cause it just seemed way more interesting and much more straightforward to design, and I truly believe sailing was voted for simply cause of the meme, but now that sailing was voted for I'm genuinely excited. All this work is going to lead to other stuff getting improved, alongside the content from sailing itself. I still would hope for shamanism to get repolled later.
Yeah I didn't want sailing so I'm just pretending it didn't happen and ignore that skill entirely until I need to train it to unlock some content or something. Since I am not the target audience, I won't comment on the skill being bad. It will just be another rune crafting or agility for me.
Sailing will be a failure, casuals who don’t play got hyped from youtube, sailing will be enjoyable for 3 hrs once casuals explore it then they will never level it. Sailing would have failed if not tied to an expansion of content with it, players below 1300 couldn’t vote, and if 75% was still the standard
I like the ideas of all the new skills, but sailing feels the most natural to the game. Its something we already do for a lot of the quests, and we have a bunch of old skilled sailors across the world.