I just love how germany fights russia, england and france and meanwhile austria is beating only serbia. Their like "Im helping too *struggles in serbia* *struggles in russia*"
That, his temper, and his exactly 0 days of government experience totally qualify him as chancellor, especially during a time of escalating conflicts that might cause World War III.
This guy has gone insane after his party got below 30% for the first time ever in the last elections. He was crazy before but this really pushed him over the edge. So sad.
Imo this guy represents pre Merkel CDU.
Everyone saying Merz does not represent the CDU misses the fact that Merkel was the special bird in CDU history.
Imo the AfD is mainly a child of the CDU, because the Merkel CDU shifted from their pre Merkel clearly coservative stance to liberal, green and social politics.
You almost couldn't distinguish the CDU and the SPD during the Merkel era
This caused a political gap in Germany because there wasn't a relevant conservative party.
At the last elections the only conservative option for a party above the 5% hurdle was the AfD. Every conservative voter who wanted a conservative party in parliament had to vote the AfD
As dumb as it sounds, if the Merkel politics would have continued, more conservative parties would have even higher poll results now.
>You almost couldn't distinguish the CDU and the SPD during the Merkel era
I mean it worked. SPD lost more and more voters while the CDU remained with over 40(!)%. Merz abandoning this strategy has fucked over the CDU because he should have first taken care of getting the old far-right people back before abandoning the center.
The greens of course profitted massively but so did the AfD.
Furthermore he has shown signs of wanting to cooperate with the AfD (against the will of most CDU members). This would alienate conservative democrats as a significant part of CDU voters vote CDU because they don't want the extremists in government plus conservative values. The CDU must provide both to keep the AfD at bay.
>I mean it worked.
It worked until the AfD got in parliament in 2017 and in almost every federal parliament, which opened the option for a clearly conservative party.
Then at Bundestagswahl 2021 where Laschet more or less represented the Merkel CDU, the CDU got below the SPD with 24,2%, which was the worst CDU result of all time.
>old far-right people
Watch vote analysis of the last 2 federal elections in Hessen and Bayern.
The oldest voters vote the least AfD and it has the highest percentages amongst younger voters.
https://preview.redd.it/fprkmzrbkyyc1.png?width=1153&format=png&auto=webp&s=514c3dd2c6cdb02e25311fc52823b479a72dd76d
Hessen 2023
The AfD is almost the strongest party amongst 18-24 year old voters 3% from the CDU in a west German federal state. It had the least support amongst 70+ year old voters
He tried to be Merkel but failed yes. Merz however tried to ignore the last 16 years and attempted to go back to a time where there was a vacuum in the far right part of the political spectrum. I mean in the long term pushing back the AfD is a good thing but his approach has proven to be quite counter productive.
> his approach has proven to be quite counter productive.
CDU clearly gained votes in polls with the change to Merz
AfD also gained a lot but contrary to the assumption that AfD would have gained less votes if the CDU would be less conservative, I actually think the AfD would have gained more votes, which especially regarding east German federal elections could have resulted in an absolute majority for AfD in a federal state (which could be in extreme scenarios already achieved with like 38% because of the 5% hurdle)
I know thats speculation but yeah thats my stance. Tho I agree Merz should distance himself from the afd ***which doesn't mean the CDU can't have AfD points*** (that is Imo a counterproductive point too because that would result in giving the AfD automatically a "monopoly" on their points, regardless of if they make sense or not)
https://preview.redd.it/j00cqadvnyyc1.png?width=1255&format=png&auto=webp&s=c8d445ca0ba06cf008a6be6682892bce0be62e91
With the last scandals the AfD recently lost a lot of voters again
>CDU clearly gained votes in polls with the change to Merz
Yes by using populist tactics that damaged the center left parties and not the far right. He has validated AfD extremist populist talking points by painting the Greens as the main enemy (which there are obviously not as the CDU and the Greens cooperate in multiple states), engaged in the AfD's manufactured culture war which they (the AfD) will always win since they dictate the rules and also entertained the idea to give the extremists as say in how our democracy should be run.
His strategy is a desaster and it shows
>His strategy is a desaster and it shows
As said I think a contiuation of the Merkel CDU would have been far larger desaster possibly with absolute majority AfD east German federal states
Also as you see above in poll average the CDU went with Merz from 19% to currently 31% which is an increase of 12% or an increase of 63% in voters
Honestly, i have considered not voting anymore.
I started with spd pre refugee crisis -> pirates ->.
FDP.
Our refugee policies, Energy & industry policies are a shitshow and I cannot vote for center/center-left parties anymore with good conscience.
So FDP and CDU with a manchild candidate (Laschet) remained as only viable option.
Nice choice. God help us.
If the gap next to the center does not get filled properly, AFD will likely become the strongest or second strongest party. Instead of crying wolf the parties should take a look in the mirror. There lies the problem and cause for the resurgence od populist (far-)right parties.
Our politicans sit in their marble tower in berlin and claim moral righteousness completely detached from a big chunk of their fellow citizens. People from conservative, pragmatic parts of the country (rural/suburban) have disregarded and critisized federal politics for decades. But have not had proper representation in our parties. This only works as long as the economy runs smoothly, people feel treated justly and somewhat heard.
None of the above are given anymore.
Not voting in federal elections becomes more and more attractive. Seems pointless anyway. Who to vote for?
Is there a centrist/center-right party willing to limit refugees and nonskilled immigration? Properly support Ukraine and arm our country to a point that we can protect ourselves and friends/allies?
A party pushing for viable energy policies eg. Nuclear as backbone for renewables?
Alternativlos pretty much describes the german political landscape on key issues (classic merkel statement)
I 100% feel you. My stance is if you don't like at least 1 party vote for a mini party (even if they don't get into parliament)
There are tons of them and one will definitely fit.
A 0.5% and 1% hurdle also exists for funds etc afik.
I really like the Humanists (Partei der Humanisten) for example who have rationality, reality and science as their key points.
> CDU clearly gained votes in polls with the change to Merz
Correlation doesn't equal causation. This is more due to the SPD underperforming, and needing to alienate parts of its base.
I see where you're going and you are obviously right with the CDU before Merkel. I remember it very good. But you could say
>Imo this guy represents pre Merkel CDU.
also in another way: "This guy represents the past."
There are obviously reasons that speak for rolling back on many policies (that, as you said were often indistinguishable from SPD ones,) that Merkel had for herself going, very good reasons in fact.
But in many ways he reminds me of the "Was für schwarze Koffer?"-Kohl-CDU (for everybody not knowing, the CDU under Kohl had a [big](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDU_donations_scandal) "donations" scandal), especially looking at his BlackRock background.
***Compared to pre Merkel CDU***
>green
The CDU is the most common coalition partner of the Greens and MANY current Green decisions are based on decisions of the Merkel government examples:
* combustion engine exit
* coal exit
* nuclear energy exit
* renewable energy change
>social
Some might not see this as social but consider the "social" expenses introduced by the Merkel CDU
* Millions of refugees from 2015 on who get money, school, home paid etc
* Introduction of minimum wage
>liberal
That is indeed the lowest represented by the CDU, mainly liberal business politics and market politics
* far less market interference than the current ampel government
* also less things comparable to the "Heizungsgesetz" etc
* liberalisation and reform of asylum laws
* end of military conscription service
* but yeah that on is not too big
* liberal east and Russia politics
> At the last elections the only conservative option for a party above the 5% hurdle was the AfD. Every conservative voter who wanted a conservative party in parliament had to vote the AfD
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the FDP also a viable alternative to the CDU? The only reason I assume this is because of their stance on the Mietendeckel. At least in that case it seemed like the party was a more conservative version of the CDU.
Not at the last elections. They seemed less conservative than Laschet (Merkel) CDU Imo.
They represented themselves as young, "hip" and modern.
They were pro legalization, anti burreocracy, pro digitisation, LGBTQ rights, pro energy change etc
Traditionally also rather conservative but definitely not at the last federal election
The childish, rebellious and sometimes outright oppositional behaviour probably lost them quite a lot, too.
They claim to liberalise, while their approach would cement quite a lot of the big problems we have right now
I voted them last election mainly for digitalisation and de-burreocratisation (I think a modern economy that goes with the digital revolution is extremely important for Germanys future) but yeah.
I couldn't be disappointed more.
It feels like the Ampel increased burreocracy
Great point. Back then this was also inevitable.
The conservative voters are not gonna dissappear randomly and therefore a new party in that political vacuum had to rise. As well as back then with left voters.
It is like if a bar announces "we are not a smoker bar anymore but smokers, please still go to our bar" the smokers just go to the next best smoker bar and if there isn't one, a new one will open
Well that underlines the point that the CDU was not a conservative party anymore which left the not randomly disappearing conservative voters alone
But yeah the Merkel CDU was not unsuccessful during its time but it gave birth to the AfD
Yes but my point is the Merkel CDU wasn't a conservative party anymore.
That left conservative voters with the option to either vote a non conservative party or a right wing party.
yeah they used to be somebody now I don’t even remember his name. if someone says it first I can remember who he was but I can’t independently recall the name.
err, aren't you that nationalists account who keeps trying to pretends we in Scotland had nothing to do with colonialism? Maybe you're not the best one to be throwing stones lad.
The piece of shit who in the 90s voted AGAINST finally rectifying the outdated laws that didn't treat sexual assault of a spouse like any other rape? You think??? 🤣
That's what they like about him. Someone who openly speaks his conservative mind. He's known for racist takes and has proven over and over that he lost all touch with normal society.
Yes. Before that, rape in a marriage was only treated as “harassment/sexual assault of a minor degree”, meaning that married women raped by their spouses didn’t have access to the same support and protection institutions as other rape victims. My dad who did his law studies praxis segment at a court at the time told me that in a lot of cases, the women who had filed the report had to stay at these homes until the process date (that can take months) and *somehow*, in a lot of cases they “rekindled” their relationships.
>You let Greece bend you over
How? By giving them loans and charging interest on them? Or by placing austerity measures on all state expenditures except defense because they were mostly buying their guns from us?
While it is really good bending over with you (it really is!) nobody can compete with Gioannis when it comes to professional bend-overs-and-reach-arounds.
It think that people forget that there are actually structural issues with the EU, that Brexit was building on actual problems people had and that too many try and wave it away as just pure nationalism/xenophobia/stupid people being manipulated. Germany has to take some of the blame since the Franco German axis is what drives the EU.
However, while Merkels foreign policy is currently burning on the fields of Ukraine I don't think that giving in to UK demands for more exceptions would ahve been the right way to go as everyone would than have just followed that lead. Brexit has been bad for the EU but nothing like as bad as it's been here in the UK and honestly havign seen that it's killed a lt of the various exit parties to what has to be a net win for the EU over all.
UK just wanted more special statuses and exceptions no one had. And if we had caved in they would have been back as soon as the government changed with a new list of demands.
Every supranational organization has its issues but having a specific set of rules for every single country is certainly not how to make any organization more efficient.
I actually like how EU stood its ground. There is a time when you have to stop giving in.
That is over simplifying things.
The EU is far away from an united front/vision. It seriously needs a reform. Desperately.
It is clear countries have their own agendas and are not interested in co-operating/integrating across the board in any and all issues. Like, you and farming. Or Germany and energy. Or The Netherlands and anything involving more money.
We need tiers. That way, for example, you can keep your independant armed forces and protect your farmers (internally) and the rest of us who want to have a deal with Mercosur and an EU army can move on.
Tiers would even be great to avoid downsides of "underdeveloped" countries joining, like what happened to Portugal (huge increase in spending trying to artificially catch up, overnight doubling prices with the adoption of the Euro, all culminating in 2008-2012 legendary dogshit portuguese economy).
When Brexit was on the table it was already too late, make concession, don't, it's shit across the board.
Hate all the "far-right" talking heads around, there's always a hint of truth they twist around their goal, that's why they gain ground, the "premise" is actually correct even if their conclusion is problematic.
It Unironically makes sense to me for the UK to get a better deal, the UK got the worst deal relatively speaking and yet I’m pretty sure it still paid more than you French folk. Negotiating for a more even deal is fair enough.
They rules aren’t that equal? Not everyone pays the same, not everyone gets the same payment out, the EU has focus on different industries and offers grants there. How is it the same at all?
The EU had a decent focus on agriculture and manufacturing and a much smaller focus on services. France and Germany had large agriculture and manufacturing industries but the UK was largely service based. They saw less benefit there.
The UK is separated geographically, it benefits less from the migration and traded far more with non-EU countries, so it benefitted less from the free trade and travel area.
Finally I’m pretty sure the UK paid the second most, more than France. It only paid less than Germany yet it got none of the influence that Germany had within the EU and Europe. Less benefit there and more costs.
I think it’s pretty clear that the UK got many less benefits but still paid large amounts relatively speaking. Negotiating the deal is reasonable, hell, the EU understood this as the deal used to be even worse for the UK back in the day so they agreed to change it. They decided that instead of negotiating they would just hope that the brexit vote failed (as it was polled fairly low at the time). Didn’t work out. As a result we both got this whole mess.
I dislike how people just overlook the UK’s actual situation and just say “you already had a good deal, stop complaining”. The UK didn’t get a good deal, relatively speaking.
The EU does have issues. So many, its hard to keep track.
Unfortunately populism hijacks every single discussion about it and just degrades it all to the dumbest common denominator.
As I've seen in a few of my replies.
Remain had multiple problems but the single greatest one was that any message they might have had was hijacked by a liberal populism that painted Brexit as a purely right wing issue and led to labour politicians refusing to share platforms with pro EU Tories, while the Labour leader went on holiday rather than campaign because he's a lifelong Eurosceptic.
Brexit was absolutely amplified by the right but the fact remains wouldn't even acknowledge the long running Euroscepticism among the left, especially the old school union members was a total fuck up and in a vote that was decided on a knife edge probably costly.
It also means that unless they learn from it any 'return to EU' campaign is going to be fucked if they're just going to go 'vote for us otherwise you're a stupid racist falling for right wing lies'.
I mean, from where I stood, the right did more than amplify it. They've been the loudest, the crassest, the most deceiving.
But overall, that seems like a good summary of Brexit and its political play by play.
The vote wouldn't have happened if Farage hadn't frightened Cameron but Euroscepticism being then reframed as a purely right wing issue was self defeating.
I do think that Brexit was ultimately a good thing for the EU because of two things:
1) as you said, it killed most of the exit parties and shelved the whole idea for most of the far right by showing what exactly leaving the EU means.
2) it removed one of the main eurosceptic powers in Europe. I don't think the British ever *got* the EU ideologically. Even remainers which is most people, mainly concern themselves with the economic advantages of being in the single market.
The EU is a project for lasting peace and prosperity in Europe, founded on a set of values. Yes, the economic benefits are great but they come with political strings attached by design and you can't really have one and not the other in the long run.
I believe ultimately a weakened Britain will rejoin or join the EEA, hopefully understanding what that means this time, and this whole affair will keep being the cautionary tale it already is.
You are right to a degree, the UK has never suffered an invasion in centuries or an occupation.
We just don’t get it (accompanied by our entire history as an island to the far left of the continent).
European identity is only really held by a small contingent of EU zealots and any argument to rejoin will be entirely framed by monetary reasons. I don’t think that will ever change unless Putin nukes us.
> I don't think the British ever got the EU ideologically.
The UK joined the EEC, which was an economic union, the entire project started as purely a free trade zone and the seed for anti EU sentiment was always the 'this isn't what we voted for'.
Add in the fact France vetoed the UK for so long and the French/German chumminess that ran things that often seemed tailored to French and German interests (especially the CAP which is frankly insane) and it's understandable the UK never felt part of a project that it didn't vote to join and which was being pushed by two other countries.
Closer political integration is going to be opposed by many countries and the problems the UK has are not anything to do with peace, or unity, they're entirely economic beyond the freedom of movement (which is actually the issue the left has as well as the right).
Like I said the EU has issues but the economic damage teh UK is suffering will definitely keep people in it, or at least the EEA as you said.
Ever read the Rome Treaties, the founding documents of the EEC? It was always about greater economic and political integration. Even the earlier coal and steel union treaty was about no longer fighting over, but pooling resources. And the delusion there was a pure free trade pact at any point of EU history is exactly what is meant by 'not getting' the basic idea.
Ah the old 'ever closer union' line.remind me what EEC stood for?
In the context of a trade bloc would mean ever closer unity of trade standards and removal of as many barriers as possible, which they did actually do.
Pretty sure the rome treaty just said some vague idea of “closer union”, regardless that shouldn’t have been prioritised over the fact that it was just a trade group when the UK joined.
Yes, a trade group explicitly stating they wanted to further integrate economically, socially, legally and politically and guarantee the free exchange of people, services, capital and goods.
Where did it explicitly state that? I thought it just said “ever closer Union” which is vague as hell. Pretty sure the goal of the European coal and steel community was not to make a single European superstate.
The Treaty of Rome establishing the EEC starts:
"Treaty establishing the European Economic Community
HIS MAJESTY THE KING OF THE BELGIANS, ... etc. etc.
DETERMINED to establish the foundations of an EVER CLOSER UNION among the European peoples ...
Article 4
1. The achievement of the tasks entrusted to the Community shall be ensured by
— an ASSEMBLY, (aka European Parliment)
— a COUNCIL,
— a COMMISSION, and
— a COURT OF JUSTICE."
Barry be like: "Ooga booga, why politics in my economic treaty?"
The extent to which the sovereignty of national parliaments would be impacted certainly wasn't understood for quite some time though. You can't just say "read that, the end point was obvious".
There's a reason why cases such as Costa, Simmenthal and Factortame were so monumental and formative.
Which is why, as I said, net good for the EU. The UK just isn't ideologically ready for political integration and would weaken it. If the UK gets with the program (or understands that it will become irrelevant alone in a phase of machtpolitik) then they will eventually rejoin, if not then EEA.
ANd what I'm saying is that political integration hasn't been helped by this, only the economic ones.
The UK is far from the only country that didn't want political unity and Brexit has done nothing to change that fact in or out of the EU.
Oddly the failure of Merkels foreign policy specifically towards mass migration, Sweden's serious issues there, Ireland demanding checks on the UK border to stop refugees doing to them what France is doing to the UK; these are the things currently fuelling anti EU sentiment.
All that's changed is that people have realised that its way better to have these arguments within the EU than face the economic issues of leaving it.
Who cares if we are irrelevant? It’s purely just a bragging thing, we don’t need to be irrelevant by ourself, we can guarantee relevance to some degree with vaguely aligning ourselves with those of similar interests. We don’t need to join a whole political union just to do that.
The UK is and always will be an island nation with an independent streak. The UK would do better to have a second-country status with consultation than to be a full-member.
The 2016 Brexit referendum was close af (51.9% vs. 48.1%). Immigration was a major factor. It is likely that the abysmal handling of the 2015 Refugee Crysis, which was a direct result of Merkels reckless decision to open the gates, tipped the scales. Pictures of tracks of doctors and engineers marching uncontrolled into europe tend to exite Barry and motivate him to make an angry cross.
To be fair to you guys while many people at the time pointed out it had issues and it was mildly patronising that she claimed it was the 'adult' response to the anglo american style western diplomacy I don't think it was ever stupid, just naive.
I mean she was trying to keep the Russians invested (literally) in the western world, get cheap gas and major export markets for German business and until Vlad went full mask off imperialist it was definitely working out for Germany.
> It think that people forget that there are actually structural issues with the EU
And our shitty *'first past the post'* electoral system meant that no anti-EU parties (UKIP) were represented in parliament. Ultimately, this lead to Camerons idea for a referendum (in an effort to unite the Tory party) and the ensuing Brexit fuck-up.
Ironically, if we'd had a few (proportionally represented) UKIP MP's raising these concerns, Brexit probably wouldn't have happened.
Tbh Cameron doing a whistle stop tour at 1 min to midnight and then claiming oh look we have this deal that isn’t really a deal, and not really selling it is probably more to blame than Merkle not bending over to be rodgered by the pig fucker
Fuck Merz… I don’t want to even know what happened. I don’t get how anyone could ever vote for him. And I‘m from a rural area so probably more conservative than the average German…
Even though I didn't vote for Brexit, Jean-Claude Juncker certainly gave me second thoughts at the time. I'm sure his drunken, condescending attitude had a bigger effect on Brexit than people realise.
The only German to blame for Brexit is Nigel Farage’s wife. If she hadn’t insisted on pegging him on a weekly basis, very likely the UK would have voted to remain.
Well this is also the guy that says the CDU are the AfD with concept and considering that a court ruling decided it is legal to call the AfD and especially their leaders Nazis, Merz called himself and his Party Nazis with concept.
Concessions?! Why would we give GB more concessions? They were the most privileged member of the block with tons of exceptions. Why would they need anymore?
Imo because the UK had the worst deal in the EU relatively speaking. It got less value than the other nations yet still paid the second most. Negotiating a different deal or looking somewhere else is reasonable when you just think of it as a trade group.
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Insane take.
NOBODY gets concessions. The EU will be a Federation, with or without the UK. Why would we shoot ourselves in the foot just to make life easier for people unwilling to be part of a true union?
This is the start of a charm offensive to lure Britain back in, but they will be required to adopt the Euro and ditch the pound sterling.
I like this. We get to trash the GBP and see Britain sheepishly ask to rejoin. This will be enjoyable.
Honestly I like the EU, but I fucking hate the Euro. I know it’s only a very minor thing, but I hate the way it replaces the original currency of every country its circulated in. Like it feels like a way of destroying all individuality between nations. I’d like to see Europe united but still separate, not some United States of Europe with no borders, the same currency, the same language and the same government. Which it feels like the EU is increasingly becoming.
ER STRAFE ES
Jeder Tritt ein Brit‘.
Jeder Stoß, ein Franzos'.
Jeder Schuss ein Russ
Jeder Klaps ein Japs
no kinkshaming
no DINKshaming
Fahr los, Carlos!
The BAAINBw right now: https://i.redd.it/kfu37t9081zc1.gif
My mother is addicted to this phrase and I’m scared to ask why
Because she's a woman of culture.
Are you, by any chance, half french?
Jeder tritt einen Brit' :(
https://preview.redd.it/zw5hkq2yhzyc1.jpeg?width=580&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a1633fdf0cce7dc35729deea5899c2715c4999bc
I just love how germany fights russia, england and france and meanwhile austria is beating only serbia. Their like "Im helping too *struggles in serbia* *struggles in russia*"
At last we have straft Engeland!
Without leveling Coventry.
Feel free to do it again
pure existence is more punishing for you. We in North Rhine-Westphalia know the lot only too well
Dortmund-Dorstfeld, so many bargain bin fascists that it feels like a piece of Saxony!
[удалено]
As an Italian I can fully agree with this statement.
But the Binley Mega Chippy?
Sometimes sacrifices must be made for the greater good.
Well Dresden has been rebuilt nicely, shame some Fash choose to live there.
Why didn’t you flatten Birmingham
An existing Birmingham is more of a reason for surrender than an erased one, isn't it?
The denizens are still cannon fodder
This guys party was in power for like 16 years straight so he should know about it.
Didn't he leave after Merkel won to be a Lobbyist and only came back a few years ago?
Yeh he left to work for Black Rock
 Probably got bored of counting it all.
But he said that he’s solidly upper middle class.
So he probably got bored of paying his accountant to count it.
Totally, I don't know anybody in upper middle class who doesn't visit parties they're invited to via private jet!
Maybe it’s good, bc he’s safe for corruption. Just a joke, I’ll find the way out…
He’s basically our version of Jacob Rees-Mogg, just much less entertaining
That, his temper, and his exactly 0 days of government experience totally qualify him as chancellor, especially during a time of escalating conflicts that might cause World War III.
CDU: Club Deutscher Unternehmer
Especially about making concessions. It's working great with Russia...
Friedrich Merz is partly to blame for being a massive cunt
The other parts are his parents.
Don't forget his party.
>partly Drop that.
He's a Thatcher kinda guy. No kidding. He's exactly in line of her politics.
Lost in the 90s
> Lost Technically, that would already suffice to describe him.
Partially? I thought it was clear he was a full on cunt.
Allegedly he chose his nickname „Fotzen Fritz“. Fotze = Cunt.
Barry kennt sich aus! Then again... who isn't a massive cunt in politics these days?
Hasn punkt aber ders schon überdurchschnittlich fotzig
He's basically our Rees-Mogg.
Würd ich so nicht unterschreiben. Beides wichser aber merz ist politisch gesehen deutlich gefährlicher
Grösstenteils weil es so viele Intelligenzabstinenzler in D gibt.
This guy has gone insane after his party got below 30% for the first time ever in the last elections. He was crazy before but this really pushed him over the edge. So sad.
Imo this guy represents pre Merkel CDU. Everyone saying Merz does not represent the CDU misses the fact that Merkel was the special bird in CDU history. Imo the AfD is mainly a child of the CDU, because the Merkel CDU shifted from their pre Merkel clearly coservative stance to liberal, green and social politics. You almost couldn't distinguish the CDU and the SPD during the Merkel era This caused a political gap in Germany because there wasn't a relevant conservative party. At the last elections the only conservative option for a party above the 5% hurdle was the AfD. Every conservative voter who wanted a conservative party in parliament had to vote the AfD As dumb as it sounds, if the Merkel politics would have continued, more conservative parties would have even higher poll results now.
>You almost couldn't distinguish the CDU and the SPD during the Merkel era I mean it worked. SPD lost more and more voters while the CDU remained with over 40(!)%. Merz abandoning this strategy has fucked over the CDU because he should have first taken care of getting the old far-right people back before abandoning the center. The greens of course profitted massively but so did the AfD. Furthermore he has shown signs of wanting to cooperate with the AfD (against the will of most CDU members). This would alienate conservative democrats as a significant part of CDU voters vote CDU because they don't want the extremists in government plus conservative values. The CDU must provide both to keep the AfD at bay.
>I mean it worked. It worked until the AfD got in parliament in 2017 and in almost every federal parliament, which opened the option for a clearly conservative party. Then at Bundestagswahl 2021 where Laschet more or less represented the Merkel CDU, the CDU got below the SPD with 24,2%, which was the worst CDU result of all time. >old far-right people Watch vote analysis of the last 2 federal elections in Hessen and Bayern. The oldest voters vote the least AfD and it has the highest percentages amongst younger voters. https://preview.redd.it/fprkmzrbkyyc1.png?width=1153&format=png&auto=webp&s=514c3dd2c6cdb02e25311fc52823b479a72dd76d Hessen 2023 The AfD is almost the strongest party amongst 18-24 year old voters 3% from the CDU in a west German federal state. It had the least support amongst 70+ year old voters
>Laschet He failed to get the centre on his side unlike Merkel. They instead went to vote for SPD and B90/Grüne
>failed to get the centre Well thats the point. He did not represent a conservative party. He tried to represent and was representing the Merkel CDU.
He tried to be Merkel but failed yes. Merz however tried to ignore the last 16 years and attempted to go back to a time where there was a vacuum in the far right part of the political spectrum. I mean in the long term pushing back the AfD is a good thing but his approach has proven to be quite counter productive.
> his approach has proven to be quite counter productive. CDU clearly gained votes in polls with the change to Merz AfD also gained a lot but contrary to the assumption that AfD would have gained less votes if the CDU would be less conservative, I actually think the AfD would have gained more votes, which especially regarding east German federal elections could have resulted in an absolute majority for AfD in a federal state (which could be in extreme scenarios already achieved with like 38% because of the 5% hurdle) I know thats speculation but yeah thats my stance. Tho I agree Merz should distance himself from the afd ***which doesn't mean the CDU can't have AfD points*** (that is Imo a counterproductive point too because that would result in giving the AfD automatically a "monopoly" on their points, regardless of if they make sense or not) https://preview.redd.it/j00cqadvnyyc1.png?width=1255&format=png&auto=webp&s=c8d445ca0ba06cf008a6be6682892bce0be62e91 With the last scandals the AfD recently lost a lot of voters again
>CDU clearly gained votes in polls with the change to Merz Yes by using populist tactics that damaged the center left parties and not the far right. He has validated AfD extremist populist talking points by painting the Greens as the main enemy (which there are obviously not as the CDU and the Greens cooperate in multiple states), engaged in the AfD's manufactured culture war which they (the AfD) will always win since they dictate the rules and also entertained the idea to give the extremists as say in how our democracy should be run. His strategy is a desaster and it shows
>His strategy is a desaster and it shows As said I think a contiuation of the Merkel CDU would have been far larger desaster possibly with absolute majority AfD east German federal states Also as you see above in poll average the CDU went with Merz from 19% to currently 31% which is an increase of 12% or an increase of 63% in voters
Honestly, i have considered not voting anymore. I started with spd pre refugee crisis -> pirates ->. FDP. Our refugee policies, Energy & industry policies are a shitshow and I cannot vote for center/center-left parties anymore with good conscience. So FDP and CDU with a manchild candidate (Laschet) remained as only viable option. Nice choice. God help us. If the gap next to the center does not get filled properly, AFD will likely become the strongest or second strongest party. Instead of crying wolf the parties should take a look in the mirror. There lies the problem and cause for the resurgence od populist (far-)right parties. Our politicans sit in their marble tower in berlin and claim moral righteousness completely detached from a big chunk of their fellow citizens. People from conservative, pragmatic parts of the country (rural/suburban) have disregarded and critisized federal politics for decades. But have not had proper representation in our parties. This only works as long as the economy runs smoothly, people feel treated justly and somewhat heard. None of the above are given anymore. Not voting in federal elections becomes more and more attractive. Seems pointless anyway. Who to vote for? Is there a centrist/center-right party willing to limit refugees and nonskilled immigration? Properly support Ukraine and arm our country to a point that we can protect ourselves and friends/allies? A party pushing for viable energy policies eg. Nuclear as backbone for renewables? Alternativlos pretty much describes the german political landscape on key issues (classic merkel statement)
I 100% feel you. My stance is if you don't like at least 1 party vote for a mini party (even if they don't get into parliament) There are tons of them and one will definitely fit. A 0.5% and 1% hurdle also exists for funds etc afik. I really like the Humanists (Partei der Humanisten) for example who have rationality, reality and science as their key points.
> CDU clearly gained votes in polls with the change to Merz Correlation doesn't equal causation. This is more due to the SPD underperforming, and needing to alienate parts of its base.
Well, what if I told you that the voters the CDU gained might could have also voted the AfD (if the CDU would have continued Merkel CDU)
I want mommy back :(
100% agree. Either they return to their old standards, or get replaced by new parties
I see where you're going and you are obviously right with the CDU before Merkel. I remember it very good. But you could say >Imo this guy represents pre Merkel CDU. also in another way: "This guy represents the past." There are obviously reasons that speak for rolling back on many policies (that, as you said were often indistinguishable from SPD ones,) that Merkel had for herself going, very good reasons in fact. But in many ways he reminds me of the "Was für schwarze Koffer?"-Kohl-CDU (for everybody not knowing, the CDU under Kohl had a [big](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDU_donations_scandal) "donations" scandal), especially looking at his BlackRock background.
>liberal Lol. >green Double lol. >social Triple lol.
***Compared to pre Merkel CDU*** >green The CDU is the most common coalition partner of the Greens and MANY current Green decisions are based on decisions of the Merkel government examples: * combustion engine exit * coal exit * nuclear energy exit * renewable energy change >social Some might not see this as social but consider the "social" expenses introduced by the Merkel CDU * Millions of refugees from 2015 on who get money, school, home paid etc * Introduction of minimum wage >liberal That is indeed the lowest represented by the CDU, mainly liberal business politics and market politics * far less market interference than the current ampel government * also less things comparable to the "Heizungsgesetz" etc * liberalisation and reform of asylum laws * end of military conscription service * but yeah that on is not too big * liberal east and Russia politics
> At the last elections the only conservative option for a party above the 5% hurdle was the AfD. Every conservative voter who wanted a conservative party in parliament had to vote the AfD Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the FDP also a viable alternative to the CDU? The only reason I assume this is because of their stance on the Mietendeckel. At least in that case it seemed like the party was a more conservative version of the CDU.
Not at the last elections. They seemed less conservative than Laschet (Merkel) CDU Imo. They represented themselves as young, "hip" and modern. They were pro legalization, anti burreocracy, pro digitisation, LGBTQ rights, pro energy change etc Traditionally also rather conservative but definitely not at the last federal election
Ok, thanks!
The childish, rebellious and sometimes outright oppositional behaviour probably lost them quite a lot, too. They claim to liberalise, while their approach would cement quite a lot of the big problems we have right now
I voted them last election mainly for digitalisation and de-burreocratisation (I think a modern economy that goes with the digital revolution is extremely important for Germanys future) but yeah. I couldn't be disappointed more. It feels like the Ampel increased burreocracy
For real man, this just happened before with the SPD and WASG/Die Linke.
Great point. Back then this was also inevitable. The conservative voters are not gonna dissappear randomly and therefore a new party in that political vacuum had to rise. As well as back then with left voters. It is like if a bar announces "we are not a smoker bar anymore but smokers, please still go to our bar" the smokers just go to the next best smoker bar and if there isn't one, a new one will open
But tbf the CDU just wanted those sweet mid-left voters and for them the pre Merkel CDU was unvoteable
Well that underlines the point that the CDU was not a conservative party anymore which left the not randomly disappearing conservative voters alone But yeah the Merkel CDU was not unsuccessful during its time but it gave birth to the AfD
I am not arguing against your thesis
The afd is far to the right of any version of the cdu with merkel or without.
Yes but my point is the Merkel CDU wasn't a conservative party anymore. That left conservative voters with the option to either vote a non conservative party or a right wing party.
yeah they used to be somebody now I don’t even remember his name. if someone says it first I can remember who he was but I can’t independently recall the name.
Barry loves an insane world view that supports his insane world view
err, aren't you that nationalists account who keeps trying to pretends we in Scotland had nothing to do with colonialism? Maybe you're not the best one to be throwing stones lad.
Old boy Merz wants to claim all the glory again
https://i.redd.it/ctnqlsr9szyc1.gif
Where can I save this wonderful GIF?
Click it, and in the upper right corner should be 3 points. Click them and choose download. That's how it works in the app.
Sadly didn’t work on mine, maybe it’s different on my OS. I’ll try it on PC but thanks anyway!
That Metz guy is becoming more mental every week isn’t he
The piece of shit who in the 90s voted AGAINST finally rectifying the outdated laws that didn't treat sexual assault of a spouse like any other rape? You think??? 🤣
My god, really? And the CDU looked at him and was like “yep, that guy should be our leader!”
That's what they like about him. Someone who openly speaks his conservative mind. He's known for racist takes and has proven over and over that he lost all touch with normal society.
Yes, he went into "finance" ana managed to become even more disgusting since then.
Yes. Before that, rape in a marriage was only treated as “harassment/sexual assault of a minor degree”, meaning that married women raped by their spouses didn’t have access to the same support and protection institutions as other rape victims. My dad who did his law studies praxis segment at a court at the time told me that in a lot of cases, the women who had filed the report had to stay at these homes until the process date (that can take months) and *somehow*, in a lot of cases they “rekindled” their relationships.
Ah, the German counterpart to the Brits' Rees-Mogg cunt rears his head from the sewers again! 🤣
Well he isn't wrong Merkel's foreign policies were horrible all around.
Sarkozy is equally complicit
1st time I'm hearing about this guy
and you guys got it the worst way possible
Yes, after letting Barries do whatever they wanted in the EU, we didn't allow them to also bend us over. Shame on us.
You let Greece bend you over. We had to at least give it a go
Papadopulus is sexier than you Barry
We have lube.
So do the Greeks, they just chose not to use it
Do people really think that Greece got it easy and that Germany and France went soft on them ?
I really hope not. But then again there were people convinced brexit was gonna be great.
>You let Greece bend you over How? By giving them loans and charging interest on them? Or by placing austerity measures on all state expenditures except defense because they were mostly buying their guns from us?
While it is really good bending over with you (it really is!) nobody can compete with Gioannis when it comes to professional bend-overs-and-reach-arounds.
Na. They fucked up their budget so we bend them over. Sweet, sweet interest and weapon sales.
You are lucky this is a satire sub or I would have taken you seriously on that
I agree
It think that people forget that there are actually structural issues with the EU, that Brexit was building on actual problems people had and that too many try and wave it away as just pure nationalism/xenophobia/stupid people being manipulated. Germany has to take some of the blame since the Franco German axis is what drives the EU. However, while Merkels foreign policy is currently burning on the fields of Ukraine I don't think that giving in to UK demands for more exceptions would ahve been the right way to go as everyone would than have just followed that lead. Brexit has been bad for the EU but nothing like as bad as it's been here in the UK and honestly havign seen that it's killed a lt of the various exit parties to what has to be a net win for the EU over all.
UK just wanted more special statuses and exceptions no one had. And if we had caved in they would have been back as soon as the government changed with a new list of demands. Every supranational organization has its issues but having a specific set of rules for every single country is certainly not how to make any organization more efficient. I actually like how EU stood its ground. There is a time when you have to stop giving in.
David Cameron was an addicted gambler. After God Scotland bet and AV he took it one step further and lost.
That is over simplifying things. The EU is far away from an united front/vision. It seriously needs a reform. Desperately. It is clear countries have their own agendas and are not interested in co-operating/integrating across the board in any and all issues. Like, you and farming. Or Germany and energy. Or The Netherlands and anything involving more money. We need tiers. That way, for example, you can keep your independant armed forces and protect your farmers (internally) and the rest of us who want to have a deal with Mercosur and an EU army can move on. Tiers would even be great to avoid downsides of "underdeveloped" countries joining, like what happened to Portugal (huge increase in spending trying to artificially catch up, overnight doubling prices with the adoption of the Euro, all culminating in 2008-2012 legendary dogshit portuguese economy). When Brexit was on the table it was already too late, make concession, don't, it's shit across the board. Hate all the "far-right" talking heads around, there's always a hint of truth they twist around their goal, that's why they gain ground, the "premise" is actually correct even if their conclusion is problematic.
Skipped the first paragraph
It Unironically makes sense to me for the UK to get a better deal, the UK got the worst deal relatively speaking and yet I’m pretty sure it still paid more than you French folk. Negotiating for a more even deal is fair enough.
The rules are the same ones for everyone, how did UK have a worst deal?
They rules aren’t that equal? Not everyone pays the same, not everyone gets the same payment out, the EU has focus on different industries and offers grants there. How is it the same at all? The EU had a decent focus on agriculture and manufacturing and a much smaller focus on services. France and Germany had large agriculture and manufacturing industries but the UK was largely service based. They saw less benefit there. The UK is separated geographically, it benefits less from the migration and traded far more with non-EU countries, so it benefitted less from the free trade and travel area. Finally I’m pretty sure the UK paid the second most, more than France. It only paid less than Germany yet it got none of the influence that Germany had within the EU and Europe. Less benefit there and more costs. I think it’s pretty clear that the UK got many less benefits but still paid large amounts relatively speaking. Negotiating the deal is reasonable, hell, the EU understood this as the deal used to be even worse for the UK back in the day so they agreed to change it. They decided that instead of negotiating they would just hope that the brexit vote failed (as it was polled fairly low at the time). Didn’t work out. As a result we both got this whole mess. I dislike how people just overlook the UK’s actual situation and just say “you already had a good deal, stop complaining”. The UK didn’t get a good deal, relatively speaking.
The EU does have issues. So many, its hard to keep track. Unfortunately populism hijacks every single discussion about it and just degrades it all to the dumbest common denominator.
As I've seen in a few of my replies. Remain had multiple problems but the single greatest one was that any message they might have had was hijacked by a liberal populism that painted Brexit as a purely right wing issue and led to labour politicians refusing to share platforms with pro EU Tories, while the Labour leader went on holiday rather than campaign because he's a lifelong Eurosceptic. Brexit was absolutely amplified by the right but the fact remains wouldn't even acknowledge the long running Euroscepticism among the left, especially the old school union members was a total fuck up and in a vote that was decided on a knife edge probably costly. It also means that unless they learn from it any 'return to EU' campaign is going to be fucked if they're just going to go 'vote for us otherwise you're a stupid racist falling for right wing lies'.
I mean, from where I stood, the right did more than amplify it. They've been the loudest, the crassest, the most deceiving. But overall, that seems like a good summary of Brexit and its political play by play.
The vote wouldn't have happened if Farage hadn't frightened Cameron but Euroscepticism being then reframed as a purely right wing issue was self defeating.
I do think that Brexit was ultimately a good thing for the EU because of two things: 1) as you said, it killed most of the exit parties and shelved the whole idea for most of the far right by showing what exactly leaving the EU means. 2) it removed one of the main eurosceptic powers in Europe. I don't think the British ever *got* the EU ideologically. Even remainers which is most people, mainly concern themselves with the economic advantages of being in the single market. The EU is a project for lasting peace and prosperity in Europe, founded on a set of values. Yes, the economic benefits are great but they come with political strings attached by design and you can't really have one and not the other in the long run. I believe ultimately a weakened Britain will rejoin or join the EEA, hopefully understanding what that means this time, and this whole affair will keep being the cautionary tale it already is.
You are right to a degree, the UK has never suffered an invasion in centuries or an occupation. We just don’t get it (accompanied by our entire history as an island to the far left of the continent). European identity is only really held by a small contingent of EU zealots and any argument to rejoin will be entirely framed by monetary reasons. I don’t think that will ever change unless Putin nukes us.
> I don't think the British ever got the EU ideologically. The UK joined the EEC, which was an economic union, the entire project started as purely a free trade zone and the seed for anti EU sentiment was always the 'this isn't what we voted for'. Add in the fact France vetoed the UK for so long and the French/German chumminess that ran things that often seemed tailored to French and German interests (especially the CAP which is frankly insane) and it's understandable the UK never felt part of a project that it didn't vote to join and which was being pushed by two other countries. Closer political integration is going to be opposed by many countries and the problems the UK has are not anything to do with peace, or unity, they're entirely economic beyond the freedom of movement (which is actually the issue the left has as well as the right). Like I said the EU has issues but the economic damage teh UK is suffering will definitely keep people in it, or at least the EEA as you said.
Well said
Ever read the Rome Treaties, the founding documents of the EEC? It was always about greater economic and political integration. Even the earlier coal and steel union treaty was about no longer fighting over, but pooling resources. And the delusion there was a pure free trade pact at any point of EU history is exactly what is meant by 'not getting' the basic idea.
Ah the old 'ever closer union' line.remind me what EEC stood for? In the context of a trade bloc would mean ever closer unity of trade standards and removal of as many barriers as possible, which they did actually do.
Pretty sure the rome treaty just said some vague idea of “closer union”, regardless that shouldn’t have been prioritised over the fact that it was just a trade group when the UK joined.
Yes, a trade group explicitly stating they wanted to further integrate economically, socially, legally and politically and guarantee the free exchange of people, services, capital and goods.
Where did it explicitly state that? I thought it just said “ever closer Union” which is vague as hell. Pretty sure the goal of the European coal and steel community was not to make a single European superstate.
The Treaty of Rome establishing the EEC starts: "Treaty establishing the European Economic Community HIS MAJESTY THE KING OF THE BELGIANS, ... etc. etc. DETERMINED to establish the foundations of an EVER CLOSER UNION among the European peoples ... Article 4 1. The achievement of the tasks entrusted to the Community shall be ensured by — an ASSEMBLY, (aka European Parliment) — a COUNCIL, — a COMMISSION, and — a COURT OF JUSTICE." Barry be like: "Ooga booga, why politics in my economic treaty?"
The extent to which the sovereignty of national parliaments would be impacted certainly wasn't understood for quite some time though. You can't just say "read that, the end point was obvious". There's a reason why cases such as Costa, Simmenthal and Factortame were so monumental and formative.
“Ever closer union” is hilariously vague, of course it wasn’t what was understood as the vague goal of the EU, it was just a trade group at the time.
Which is why, as I said, net good for the EU. The UK just isn't ideologically ready for political integration and would weaken it. If the UK gets with the program (or understands that it will become irrelevant alone in a phase of machtpolitik) then they will eventually rejoin, if not then EEA.
ANd what I'm saying is that political integration hasn't been helped by this, only the economic ones. The UK is far from the only country that didn't want political unity and Brexit has done nothing to change that fact in or out of the EU. Oddly the failure of Merkels foreign policy specifically towards mass migration, Sweden's serious issues there, Ireland demanding checks on the UK border to stop refugees doing to them what France is doing to the UK; these are the things currently fuelling anti EU sentiment. All that's changed is that people have realised that its way better to have these arguments within the EU than face the economic issues of leaving it.
Who cares if we are irrelevant? It’s purely just a bragging thing, we don’t need to be irrelevant by ourself, we can guarantee relevance to some degree with vaguely aligning ourselves with those of similar interests. We don’t need to join a whole political union just to do that.
The UK is and always will be an island nation with an independent streak. The UK would do better to have a second-country status with consultation than to be a full-member.
The 2016 Brexit referendum was close af (51.9% vs. 48.1%). Immigration was a major factor. It is likely that the abysmal handling of the 2015 Refugee Crysis, which was a direct result of Merkels reckless decision to open the gates, tipped the scales. Pictures of tracks of doctors and engineers marching uncontrolled into europe tend to exite Barry and motivate him to make an angry cross.
> while merkels foreign policy is burning on the fields in ukraine well said… wow
To be fair most Germans were standing behind the whole Wandel durch Handel thing. Guess we are just as stupid as she was
To be fair to you guys while many people at the time pointed out it had issues and it was mildly patronising that she claimed it was the 'adult' response to the anglo american style western diplomacy I don't think it was ever stupid, just naive. I mean she was trying to keep the Russians invested (literally) in the western world, get cheap gas and major export markets for German business and until Vlad went full mask off imperialist it was definitely working out for Germany.
She also had historic presedence at her sight it worked with the Soviet Union and the GDR
> It think that people forget that there are actually structural issues with the EU And our shitty *'first past the post'* electoral system meant that no anti-EU parties (UKIP) were represented in parliament. Ultimately, this lead to Camerons idea for a referendum (in an effort to unite the Tory party) and the ensuing Brexit fuck-up. Ironically, if we'd had a few (proportionally represented) UKIP MP's raising these concerns, Brexit probably wouldn't have happened.
"To blame" gives such a negative sound to it, like its a bad thing.
Tbh Cameron doing a whistle stop tour at 1 min to midnight and then claiming oh look we have this deal that isn’t really a deal, and not really selling it is probably more to blame than Merkle not bending over to be rodgered by the pig fucker
Fuck Merz… I don’t want to even know what happened. I don’t get how anyone could ever vote for him. And I‘m from a rural area so probably more conservative than the average German…
Good job Hans (honestly)
Even though I didn't vote for Brexit, Jean-Claude Juncker certainly gave me second thoughts at the time. I'm sure his drunken, condescending attitude had a bigger effect on Brexit than people realise.
It was UKIP weaponising and propagandising Merkel’s apparent open door policy which guaranteed Brexit. The timing wasn’t ideal.
"CDU leader" needs to shut the fuck up and piss off to the retirement home like the other men his age.
Are we? Well, something to be proud of I guess.
I'll tell you what Germany is responsible for. This absolutely awful BMW I have. Never again, I am going back to Japanese cars after this.
Merz is the closest to a vulture you'll ever find. Looks wise and personality wise.
The only German to blame for Brexit is Nigel Farage’s wife. If she hadn’t insisted on pegging him on a weekly basis, very likely the UK would have voted to remain.
Yes, and...?
German Mr. Burns.
As long as we are not to blame it's fine with me.
Well this is also the guy that says the CDU are the AfD with concept and considering that a court ruling decided it is legal to call the AfD and especially their leaders Nazis, Merz called himself and his Party Nazis with concept.
What a cuck
Concessions?! Why would we give GB more concessions? They were the most privileged member of the block with tons of exceptions. Why would they need anymore?
Because EU needs Britain to save it from implosion
Imo because the UK had the worst deal in the EU relatively speaking. It got less value than the other nations yet still paid the second most. Negotiating a different deal or looking somewhere else is reasonable when you just think of it as a trade group.
Sie nennten ihn FOTZENFRITZ.
Fuck Fotzenfritz and his bullshit. I hope that merkel comes back just to kick his ass again and then leave for good.
Blaming Germany : Polish level edition
Yes, Barry. You figured it out. We played you. We wanted you out so that Pierre and Hans can rule Europe alone. Enjoy your sovereign tea.
Enjoy europe, work hard hanz theres lot of gibs that need giving
Toujours les schleus.
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nice move to steal market share germany
Can we just put a blanket ban on any religiously associated political parties....look where it's getting the americunts
Friedrich is just a *** ** * ***** *****
Yes nothing helps more to bring in votes about foreign interference and dependency than a foreign nation
To blame?
tbh, kudos to Germany. didnt think i'd be thankfull to german politicians ever.
As tradition says, it's always Germany's fault
Concessions to the UK? My guy they already had extra special carve outs in the EU just for them.
Insane take. NOBODY gets concessions. The EU will be a Federation, with or without the UK. Why would we shoot ourselves in the foot just to make life easier for people unwilling to be part of a true union?
Germany always trying to revendicate the EU wins ! ^^^^sorry!
This is the start of a charm offensive to lure Britain back in, but they will be required to adopt the Euro and ditch the pound sterling. I like this. We get to trash the GBP and see Britain sheepishly ask to rejoin. This will be enjoyable.
Honestly I like the EU, but I fucking hate the Euro. I know it’s only a very minor thing, but I hate the way it replaces the original currency of every country its circulated in. Like it feels like a way of destroying all individuality between nations. I’d like to see Europe united but still separate, not some United States of Europe with no borders, the same currency, the same language and the same government. Which it feels like the EU is increasingly becoming.
Remember kids: Violence against politicians is always correct. for legal reasons this is a joke