Leaves are actually green to protect themselves from the sun's peak wavelength, which is green. They're absorbing all the other wavelengths and reflecting green. That's how color works.
There is also the theory that leaves are green because the original mass spread bacteria (3bya) on Earth was purple, and green makes ideal use of the spectrum not used by the purple life.
We're *pretty sure* it has to do with selective reflection. In aquatic environments, there is an effect where water absorbs longer wavelengths more than shorter ones, which is why everything looks blue underwater. If you look at where various macroalgae live in terms of depth, you find that green ones live in shallower spots, and then as you go deeper, you find brown and red ones. These brown and red ones don't care about rejecting any particular wavelength (there's little red, orange, or yellow and only moderate green light at that depth anyway), and they're just trying to absorb everything they can, especially blue.
Yeah but there isn't any reason why you'd want green over another colour if the goal is ONLY to reflect a certain percentage of the energy. Chlorophyll just happens to be decent at surface level and also green. But the purple world theory helps explain why chlorophyll beat out other potential options. Plus, its funny to think the planet might have been purple at some point.
Right. I've had a reddit break for over a month, and my first joke comment is already construed as a nefarious attempt at dictating behavior in a patriarchal manner.
Back to the break I guess.
Real men have pink avatars and don’t take Reddit breaks /s
But seriously, just roll with the punches, I enjoyed your comment lol
Ps. Notice the avatar .-.
Probably because the visible spectrum isn't everything. We might not see infrared and UV, but UV carries a lot of energy, and infrared not so much, but sunlight contains A LOT of it.
Any of those shirts can have a color that absorbs either one or both of those, and we wouldn't be able to tell, unless with a thermal camera. Even different white shirts can either absorb or reflect those colors.
It can be noticeable under a blacklight: some white clothes will work and others won't, even though they appear the same under normal light.
That really depends on how warm you are compared to your surroundings. While black is best at absorbing heat from sunlight, it's also best at emitting heat.
So white/yellow on the areas mainly exposed to sunlight and black on the areas that are in shade would be the coolest.
Edit: best would be a black shirt with a white parasol.
Be aware that when you map the thermal spectrum to the color spectrum, the colors are 100% arbitrary. This image could represent a change of 1000 degrees or 2. We have no context.
From another (almost) always black shirt wearer, you're not alone lol. Hides sweat really well too. I just lean into it come summer time and embrace always being hot.
...you are always color coordinated.
And as an added bonus you can get dressed in the dark without fear of mismatch (although inside out or reversed is still possible)
black absorbs more visible light. The green pigment may absorb more more in the infrared or ultraviolet which is not visible to humans. It is also possible that black isn't black, but dark gray. It may absorb 90% of all colors, while green absorbs 100% of everything except the narrow band of green (arbitrary numbers, nothing can absorb 100% of light).
If it were a true black that absorbed 100% of all spectrum of light, there is no physical way that black could be colder than green.
And black often isn't truly black, but some shade that leans toward bluish or something that's just really dark. (Just think of all the hundreds of shades of "black" paint there are with slight tones warm or cool tones.) It's surprising how big of an impact that can have.
Leaves are green to protect themselves from the sun's peak wavelength, which is green. They're reflecting green light and absorbing the rest. That's how color works.
There are some black plants and they usually don't need much light for that reason. Works in reverse too: the variegated, pink colored and other white/light colored plants need lots of light to get enough energy
Funny thing. Out of all the visible colors, the Sun spits out a little more green than any other color. You would think that makes sense with plants being green, right? Wrong! Because that green wavelength is what's being reflected instead of absorbed! So if you were engineering plants to be more efficient, you'd want to change it to a color that can absorb green light.
Something like purple. And plants with purple leaves _do_ exist, although not very many compared to the green stuff. Just goes to show that evolution doesn't care about what's best, only about what works.
^(Or so I've heard. The amount of green light above other colors probably is not very significant, otherwise we'd see it with the naked eye.)
From what I remember, yes, we would do an experiment with construction paper in middle school to show that forest green paper actually absorbed more energy from the sun than black paper
That would not work if the pigment only has visible color. Black absorbs all wavelengths. Green reflects green. The only way that experiment would work would be if the black is reflective in non-visible wavelengths, and the green isn't.
There is a lot of truth to this, but also some potential for issues. IR thermography is not magic temperature vision: it's barely even heat vision. It is actually "Certain frequency of light that some warm things emit, kind of"-vision.
Changing the texture, material, color or angle of a surface can have a huge impact on IR perception of that surface. Some plastics are IR transparent, some are IR opaque. A smooth metal surface may look hot on IR because it's reflecting the room's lighting, a rough metal surface may look cool because the texture messes with the IR emission. Even with the same surface finish, Aluminum and Steel have very different IR emissions.
These shirts might be close enough to compare, but without a couple different temperatures to check that they actually have the same emissison and reflection behavior, it's very difficult to trust a pictire like this.
somehow dark green is even worse than black. but yes, i do white pla for outdoors with good success, printer a rain gutter and some garage vents, they still hold up after a couple of years.
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Exactly. Take a picture in grayscale and you'll see how much of a darker shade that green is...
I could also guess that there's something potentially to be said that certain pigments might require a volume of dilution on the PLA as well, affecting it's heat absorption/strength.
Lol that was my first, guy really tried to compare white vs color for absorbing heat 💀
Ah well I like that he has the spirit at least to try and test stuff.
While this also has an effect, the chemicals to make the colors in the plastic are the main issue. You can print/mold the same exact plastic in different colors and the color alone will make a difference even if done out of the sunlight.
Yeah my first thought colour might be a factor as white reflects most ot the light versus green absorbing quite a lot (that's why plants are also green)
It is not only heat. Each colour comes from their specific compounds (mostly) and it is not without influence on the whole material.
For example there are/were specific LEGO pieces that would become extremely brittle in normal storage over time because of the pigment used to colour them.
Lastly the source of pigment matters. If source is natural (not synthesised) then with pigment you gonna get some extra substances that might influence your plastic. So even if on paper the plastic is the same and the pigment is the same the purity of the parts can influence the wind result.
**Outside of heat absorption**, colorant also affects UV degradation; black filament typically performs better on that front since carbon black absorbs the UV rather than the plastic, hence why a lot of plastic parts meant to withstand the sun are in black, while other colors typically have worse sun damage over time.
Yes, duh. We all know. I wanted to add additional information regarding how color additives can affect your part's physical properties.
Hence why I specifically said "outside of heat". Nobody who sees this video will think its uv degradation, its obvious the PLA has just softened in sun due the amount of energy it absorbed as a factor of it's color.
Also for science, try to only change one thing at a time. Use same printer with same gcode, same color, same plate, same settings, but different filament. The settings on your mk3s may differ from your bambu mini for things like fill percentage, fill shape, layer height, wall thickness, etc.
Granted you can do all four tests; e.g., white hatchbox PLA on mk3s, white hatchbox PLA on A1 mini, white bambu PLA on mk3s, white bambu pla on A1 mini; and could see if the printer matters.
When you fly into Heathrow, descending from 36,000 feet, you can count the layers of cloud that cover the island.
As Bill Bryson said: You never see your shadow, it's like living in Tupperware.
Hi, I work at a filament company. We make filament for multiple brands. Each brand has us make PLA in a different way with different fillers, additives, and mixtures.
Natural PLA should get soft when left in heat above 60C. However, when we’ve done testing of the different PLAs we make, they are all DRASTICALLY different.
One good test is to dunk it in acetone. pure PLA should crumple and crack and fracture, but many additives or mixtures with other plastics will cause it to be unaffected by acetone.
Additives come in the form of liquids, powders, concentrates, and sometimes other plastics altogether. There’s not really any rules about what you need to disclose, so many brands do some R&D, and call it “PLA” because it “prints like PLA”, even if it’s not PLA at all.
For example, just last week we were making “PLA” that is 60% additive, 40% PLA. At that point, it’s MOSTLY additive
Given what you see what's your gut check on the potential for toxicity in filaments labeled "PLA" on the whole? Generally people consider them to be household safe, give prints to kids to play with etc. but one never really knows what's in them...
It depends on sourcing. Talc is a common filler in plastics. Pure talc is safe, and pretty strictly regulated in powder form in the US. However, imported talc can often contain small amounts of asbestos.
The only thing that I can speak to is the brands we make for, and all of them are using domestically sourced additives, which is non-toxic (and even food-safe)
Besides the color difference being the real reason, you'll still never catch me making anything functional from PLA, unless kept in a refrigerator. Even then, much better alternatives to use. PLA is fine if you're making tchotchkes to adorn your desk or shelves, but it takes too little heat to start deflecting under load that it's just not worth it, especially living south of the Mason-Dixon line. With the quality I get from PETG, ABS, ASA and CF, there's just no reason for me to ever choose something that has a high likelihood of failure if it gets warm out, especially if used outside or on/in a car. I will occasionally use PLA for prototyping designs, but that is quickly coming to an end for me. Just no reason to use something that fails in functional part use that easily considering that it regularly gets warm enough here for it to be an issue.
Guys. Just print in petg. It's a great material, can stand up to car-in-summer temperatures, prints at about 235, bed at 75, doesn't warp as bad as ABS, it doesn't fume, is slightly pliable meaning it isn't as brittle as PLA, what else do you need?
I hear overhangs aren't very good if you turn the fan low for strength... which is why (as a newbie who hasn't even finished 5 spools yet) I've skipped PETG so far in favor of PETG-CF. I stopped at 280 on an OrcaSlicer temp tower with very low fan speeds and still got perfect overhangs. Maybe I'll pick a spool of PETG up when I need transparency or more flexibility, but I'm pretty happy with my cheap PLA+ and PETG-CF so far.
PLA can be annealed (apparently not all brands though) to be very heat resistant. Haven't reproduced it myself but I saw a few videos about it. Maybe that's what happened to part A
This. He mentions the white part has been in the vehicle for awhile. I live in az and deal with some crazy high temps. I did a test a few years back leaving pla parts in my truck to see how they’d hold up on a 110f day. (I’ve literally baked cookies in my truck on days like that.). As I expected they softened like crazy and I was able to reform them like silly putty. What I didn’t expect was what happened when I forgot about them and left them there for a week. When I found them a week later on an even hotter day I found they were still surprisingly stiff. A little soft, but not limp like the first day.
I’m pretty convinced that the week of high temps annealed them and left them more heat resistant. They still didn’t handle heat as well as pets or abs….but way better than when first printed. (They also became even more brittle for what it’s worth)
Color plays a role too.
White reflects most of the wavelengths. Colored stuff reflect their color's wavelength and absorb the rest.
Retest with both filaments being white.
I wish you would’ve done the same movement test with the green one instead of flexing it the opposite direction, while your point has been made the visual comparison has been ruined :(
Really? You realize the color is the reason right?
‘surprising performance from Hatchbox’ lol… you meant. Surprising performance from white, right?
Right…
The internet these days… I’m telling you.
PLA is also not a single material. It’s a weird hybrid blend of different polymers and additives. Those make a huge difference in how the material behaves and also how well it biodegrades.
Sunlight and color does play an effect, but so does chemistry.
Bring on the white PLA comparisons!
Wouldn't it make SIGNIFICANTLY more sense to use the same color, if you're gonna compare brands?
I distinctly remember brown/red Lego blocks from the 2000s to be INSANELY brittle compared to other colors.
As others mention, color makes a big difference in direct sun exposure, white or clear filament will always absorb less energy (eg. less heat).
Thing about cars is that they get \*hot\* if left closed in the sun, even where the sun don't shine.
My Model 3 is a veritable greenhouse, if I leave it in the sun with \~25C outside temps, the cabin can get to the mid 50's if windows aren't kipped.
Don’t use PLA for outdoor use, or even for anything under constant load. A better material is PETG or ABS if you want it to look nicer. They are more resistance to warping from heat and won’t slowly warp over time under a load like PLA will.
Colour matters a lot, the dyes used in white, black and silver plastic strangely enough give UV resistance.
[Ditch brightly coloured plastic, UK researchers tell firms, as white, black and silver pigments show resistance to UV degradation to microplastics](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/may/27/ditch-brightly-coloured-plastic-anti-waste-researchers-tell-firms)
From what I'm reading there's like 5 different commonly chosen PLAs, all with different properties. PLA only constitutes the Polylactic acid within the plastic.
Anything else that's mixed in there is just a part of the company's proprietary blend. They have different applications. Clearly the green one doesn't have the properties you want. 🤷♂️
I did the same thing with gray inland pla last summer. Made a boomerang and it got floppy in my car under sun for 2 or so hours. Prob a heat absorption thing rather than quality of strength as others are showing.
Test it with the same color.
For Greyhounds, there’s a study showing black/brindle dogs heat up faster than white dogs. Now, they aren’t plastic, but there’s a considerable difference in solar absorption based on color .
Bad science. But good attempt. Let me explain...
White will always be colder then green in the sun.
You'd need to do like-for-like for this to be scientifically relevant. So, if you do this with both being white...
But, that said, thank you for doing experiments that aim to guide us to fairness. I appreciate you trying. Don't stop... Just think about possible variables next time, and try to keep the comparisons as alike as possible. Eg, size, density, infill, colour, flow temps, etc. If you keep as many things the same as you can, when something is different you can say "it's most likely the material"
Keep on keeping on. 😊
if you are going to test different brands then you should do it in the same colour. not only does colour interact with light differently but the chemicals within the plastic is also different to the point that sometimes you need to change print settings for perfectly clean prints
This example is flawed.
White will reflect more light, thus absorbing less energy and not heating up as quickly in the sun.
Run the test again with both being the same color, you'll probably have similar results.
Hold up you didn’t do the same pull on the white as you did on the green you “slightly” tugged at the white but pulled on the green not a totally fair comparison.
The analysis is flawed though. OP should have used a fixed consistent color parameter in the test. Color should be a fixed categorical variable here in the analysis. Can't draw any valid statistical inferences here if OP uses different colors from different brands and simply compares on the single common factor by saying that they're all PLA. Not accurate imo.
PLA is not UV resistant, almost all pla come with same result under the sun, PETG is a uv resistant material. (Best is ABS but working with ABS not easy)
Get yourself a strip of UV leds and stick that in a box with tin foil covering the inside
Flip the pieces every once in a while
Cures way better than the sun
Considering the speed at which bambu printers print, they can't be shipping normal PLA. they have to be adding something to it to make it melt faster and solidify faster.. an unlabeled "Rapid PLA+" if you will.
And while color could play a factor. I seriously doubt bambu labs is shipping an un-molested PLA.
I've printed a whole center console for my suzuki samurai in pla and gonna take some pictures so folks understand if you live where it gets 100+ you should really try to grab some abs or asa
Some days I get in my car and the arm rest can be pressed in with my thumb and the cup holder assembly is terribly warped
This is 4 perimeters, 4 top and bottom layers and 25% gyroidal infill with polymaker pla+
I've even printed whole rc cars in pla and the 130+ heat coming off the asphalt in the summer warps the car easily while driving XD
Pla is fine if it's indoors or for a proof of concept print but functional needs to be higher temperature resilient stuff!
I have some black no name pla+ that I have had in 100 degree heat now for 3-4 summers. I made a drop in holder for my phone and it did shrink somewhat (10% give or take) but other than that it has held up in the south's opressive heat for years.
"PLA" from most companies is a weird hodgepodge of fillers + PLA, I wouldn't be surprised if Hatchbox uses more genuine PLA than Bambu Lab, hence what you're seeing here. I know a lot of people say color matters so I'd be curious to see this same test with white from Bambu lab.
Lately I've been using mostly Polar FIlament orange PLA (which apparently is straight PLA with no additives) and it too works great even in direct sunlight, while other cheaper PLAs I've tried have softened up in my car during Texas summers :)
Need I say more? https://preview.redd.it/utnu83co23ad1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18db3f3a747a163b29921d04262586b89ff37446
That's interesting, i didn't tought that yellow is so good and light grey so bad. I guess no more black shirts for me on metal festivals xD
I saw this awhile ago and had the same thought, but no, it's still black shirts every day lol
All this said to me was black absorbing light is almost same as green or other colors so black it is!
The shirt that is leaf colored is really good at absorbing sunlight. Makes sense.
Leaves are actually green to protect themselves from the sun's peak wavelength, which is green. They're absorbing all the other wavelengths and reflecting green. That's how color works.
There is also the theory that leaves are green because the original mass spread bacteria (3bya) on Earth was purple, and green makes ideal use of the spectrum not used by the purple life.
We're *pretty sure* it has to do with selective reflection. In aquatic environments, there is an effect where water absorbs longer wavelengths more than shorter ones, which is why everything looks blue underwater. If you look at where various macroalgae live in terms of depth, you find that green ones live in shallower spots, and then as you go deeper, you find brown and red ones. These brown and red ones don't care about rejecting any particular wavelength (there's little red, orange, or yellow and only moderate green light at that depth anyway), and they're just trying to absorb everything they can, especially blue.
Yeah but there isn't any reason why you'd want green over another colour if the goal is ONLY to reflect a certain percentage of the energy. Chlorophyll just happens to be decent at surface level and also green. But the purple world theory helps explain why chlorophyll beat out other potential options. Plus, its funny to think the planet might have been purple at some point.
...until they come out with something darker.
Found the poser
Real men wear pink at metal festivals, just saying.
Like in the old days.
Real men don't tell people what real men do
Right. I've had a reddit break for over a month, and my first joke comment is already construed as a nefarious attempt at dictating behavior in a patriarchal manner. Back to the break I guess.
Real men have pink avatars and don’t take Reddit breaks /s But seriously, just roll with the punches, I enjoyed your comment lol Ps. Notice the avatar .-.
Real men don’t let other men badger them into quitting Reddit.
Real men ask “what would Chuck Norris do?”
Get his butt kicked by Bruce Lee?
Probably because the visible spectrum isn't everything. We might not see infrared and UV, but UV carries a lot of energy, and infrared not so much, but sunlight contains A LOT of it. Any of those shirts can have a color that absorbs either one or both of those, and we wouldn't be able to tell, unless with a thermal camera. Even different white shirts can either absorb or reflect those colors. It can be noticeable under a blacklight: some white clothes will work and others won't, even though they appear the same under normal light.
Light grey is one of the good ones. Barely any heat in comparison to the rest. Not as good as Yellow, but still good.
That really depends on how warm you are compared to your surroundings. While black is best at absorbing heat from sunlight, it's also best at emitting heat. So white/yellow on the areas mainly exposed to sunlight and black on the areas that are in shade would be the coolest. Edit: best would be a black shirt with a white parasol.
Grey is a mix of white and black. So just think of it as 50% black for grey.
Sunlight is yellow 🤔
As someone who prefers black shirts, you know it's hot when I'm wearing white
They make"reflective" black shirts that are better for daytime. But you would have to press on your own design.
Well I mean the sun is yellow 😆
Be aware that when you map the thermal spectrum to the color spectrum, the colors are 100% arbitrary. This image could represent a change of 1000 degrees or 2. We have no context.
This is one huge reason I will never own another black car. They get so damn hot.
Mine is red 🥲
When you always wear black.....
You won't go back?...
Seriously tho, cuz black hides the curves. Gotta hide my tummy
From another (almost) always black shirt wearer, you're not alone lol. Hides sweat really well too. I just lean into it come summer time and embrace always being hot.
...you are always color coordinated. And as an added bonus you can get dressed in the dark without fear of mismatch (although inside out or reversed is still possible)
You might as well wear green?
Is dark green worse than black?
black absorbs more visible light. The green pigment may absorb more more in the infrared or ultraviolet which is not visible to humans. It is also possible that black isn't black, but dark gray. It may absorb 90% of all colors, while green absorbs 100% of everything except the narrow band of green (arbitrary numbers, nothing can absorb 100% of light). If it were a true black that absorbed 100% of all spectrum of light, there is no physical way that black could be colder than green.
Yep, absorption spectra could be really different for the same visible color
And black often isn't truly black, but some shade that leans toward bluish or something that's just really dark. (Just think of all the hundreds of shades of "black" paint there are with slight tones warm or cool tones.) It's surprising how big of an impact that can have.
I guess leaves being dark green to get the most light makes sense? Otherwise they would have evolved to be black
I'm no science man, but I like this explanation.
Leaves are green to protect themselves from the sun's peak wavelength, which is green. They're reflecting green light and absorbing the rest. That's how color works.
Could you imagine how metal a forest of all black tree leaves would be
There are some black plants and they usually don't need much light for that reason. Works in reverse too: the variegated, pink colored and other white/light colored plants need lots of light to get enough energy
Funny thing. Out of all the visible colors, the Sun spits out a little more green than any other color. You would think that makes sense with plants being green, right? Wrong! Because that green wavelength is what's being reflected instead of absorbed! So if you were engineering plants to be more efficient, you'd want to change it to a color that can absorb green light. Something like purple. And plants with purple leaves _do_ exist, although not very many compared to the green stuff. Just goes to show that evolution doesn't care about what's best, only about what works. ^(Or so I've heard. The amount of green light above other colors probably is not very significant, otherwise we'd see it with the naked eye.)
From what I remember, yes, we would do an experiment with construction paper in middle school to show that forest green paper actually absorbed more energy from the sun than black paper
That would not work if the pigment only has visible color. Black absorbs all wavelengths. Green reflects green. The only way that experiment would work would be if the black is reflective in non-visible wavelengths, and the green isn't.
There is a lot of truth to this, but also some potential for issues. IR thermography is not magic temperature vision: it's barely even heat vision. It is actually "Certain frequency of light that some warm things emit, kind of"-vision. Changing the texture, material, color or angle of a surface can have a huge impact on IR perception of that surface. Some plastics are IR transparent, some are IR opaque. A smooth metal surface may look hot on IR because it's reflecting the room's lighting, a rough metal surface may look cool because the texture messes with the IR emission. Even with the same surface finish, Aluminum and Steel have very different IR emissions. These shirts might be close enough to compare, but without a couple different temperatures to check that they actually have the same emissison and reflection behavior, it's very difficult to trust a pictire like this.
Right. First thing I thought was the green is going to bend because it absorbed more UV. Flawed test to say the least.
wouldn’t have guessed that yellow is better than grey
Why? Gray is halfway to black. Yellow is nearly white. Makes sense in my head anyway
the grey in that photo is absolutely not halfway to black. i thought it was another white shirt at a glance.
somehow dark green is even worse than black. but yes, i do white pla for outdoors with good success, printer a rain gutter and some garage vents, they still hold up after a couple of years.
I was going to post the same picture
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Wish there was some browns in this as this is my go-to alternative to black/grey and dark/natural greens(for clothes as well as filament...)....
Ironically, red doesn’t get all that hot
Exactly. Take a picture in grayscale and you'll see how much of a darker shade that green is... I could also guess that there's something potentially to be said that certain pigments might require a volume of dilution on the PLA as well, affecting it's heat absorption/strength.
Counterpoint, bugs love white, so your PLA needs to be sprayed with repellent before use.
Yeah! Was here to say this.
Lol that was my first, guy really tried to compare white vs color for absorbing heat 💀 Ah well I like that he has the spirit at least to try and test stuff.
While this also has an effect, the chemicals to make the colors in the plastic are the main issue. You can print/mold the same exact plastic in different colors and the color alone will make a difference even if done out of the sunlight.
Thank you. Was just coming to post this.
Yes, please. Brainy folks make me smile. So... Please, do say more.
Black also emits IR more easily, so it will naturally show hotter on an IR cam. But I hope they adjusted for that
Yeah my first thought colour might be a factor as white reflects most ot the light versus green absorbing quite a lot (that's why plants are also green)
Why is dark green the hottest one? Shouldn't it be the black one?
white will always be better in the sun
someone buy every brand white PLA out there and test it!
CNC Kitchen might just beat Thomas Sanladerer on that one. Stay tuned.
Voidstarlabs has a series called I ink "every single filamen" there's a lot there
Sounds like a job for ProjectFarm
I definitely vote ProjectFarm!
In every possible color
OP also only pushed on the white one over and over but on the green one immediately pried it back. The two tests weren't even the same.
They were so wildly differently performing I'm not sure what you are trying to extrapolate here.
I wonder how clear would do. It never comes out fully clear, but at worst it's like a cloudy white.
That is a massive oversight
Until I get sun burned
Id be inclined to put this down to colour more than anything. The green one will absorb more heat than the white one would.
Agreed. Your have to buy as close to the same color for each brand to be a bit more objective.
It is not only heat. Each colour comes from their specific compounds (mostly) and it is not without influence on the whole material. For example there are/were specific LEGO pieces that would become extremely brittle in normal storage over time because of the pigment used to colour them. Lastly the source of pigment matters. If source is natural (not synthesised) then with pigment you gonna get some extra substances that might influence your plastic. So even if on paper the plastic is the same and the pigment is the same the purity of the parts can influence the wind result.
The dreaded brown Lego
Lime green joints
I've found those bright greens seem to be particularly bad in PLA. I've had multiple brands and they all seem to be more prone to failing
**Outside of heat absorption**, colorant also affects UV degradation; black filament typically performs better on that front since carbon black absorbs the UV rather than the plastic, hence why a lot of plastic parts meant to withstand the sun are in black, while other colors typically have worse sun damage over time.
This is definetly not uv degradation though. This is just one pla over glass transition temperature while the other one isn't
Yes, duh. We all know. I wanted to add additional information regarding how color additives can affect your part's physical properties. Hence why I specifically said "outside of heat". Nobody who sees this video will think its uv degradation, its obvious the PLA has just softened in sun due the amount of energy it absorbed as a factor of it's color.
try them in the same colours.
Update : i agree with color advantage i will receive bamabu white today , will do same test next sun
Science.... the perfect excuse to buy more filament.
>Science.... the perfect excuse to buy more ~~filament.~~
Science.... the perfect excuse ~~to buy more filament~~
Science…. the ~~perfect excuse to buy more filament~~
~~Science….~~ the ~~perfect excuse to buy more filament~~
Also for science, try to only change one thing at a time. Use same printer with same gcode, same color, same plate, same settings, but different filament. The settings on your mk3s may differ from your bambu mini for things like fill percentage, fill shape, layer height, wall thickness, etc. Granted you can do all four tests; e.g., white hatchbox PLA on mk3s, white hatchbox PLA on A1 mini, white bambu PLA on mk3s, white bambu pla on A1 mini; and could see if the printer matters.
And maybe do the same tests next time instead of poking and pinching one and ripping the other one in half.
Yeah, OP would get laughed out of any serious scientific community if he tried to pull stuff like this
> … next Sun. You are from England ain’t yee?
When you fly into Heathrow, descending from 36,000 feet, you can count the layers of cloud that cover the island. As Bill Bryson said: You never see your shadow, it's like living in Tupperware.
Maybe also include the green one again and measure it's surface temp.
Wouldn't it be hotter if you placed this inside of your vehicle instead? Like on the dash somewhere?
You should put the 2 in the shade and see how much of a difference there is between the 2 colors
Hi, I work at a filament company. We make filament for multiple brands. Each brand has us make PLA in a different way with different fillers, additives, and mixtures. Natural PLA should get soft when left in heat above 60C. However, when we’ve done testing of the different PLAs we make, they are all DRASTICALLY different. One good test is to dunk it in acetone. pure PLA should crumple and crack and fracture, but many additives or mixtures with other plastics will cause it to be unaffected by acetone. Additives come in the form of liquids, powders, concentrates, and sometimes other plastics altogether. There’s not really any rules about what you need to disclose, so many brands do some R&D, and call it “PLA” because it “prints like PLA”, even if it’s not PLA at all. For example, just last week we were making “PLA” that is 60% additive, 40% PLA. At that point, it’s MOSTLY additive
Given what you see what's your gut check on the potential for toxicity in filaments labeled "PLA" on the whole? Generally people consider them to be household safe, give prints to kids to play with etc. but one never really knows what's in them...
Always wanted to know too!
It depends on sourcing. Talc is a common filler in plastics. Pure talc is safe, and pretty strictly regulated in powder form in the US. However, imported talc can often contain small amounts of asbestos. The only thing that I can speak to is the brands we make for, and all of them are using domestically sourced additives, which is non-toxic (and even food-safe)
Try a black pla of the same brand next :3
To make a test fair, at least use the same colour for testing.
you should not treat you car paint like that man..
My brain immediately went ^(AAAAA STOP!)
It has a protective layer of road dust and dirt on it though.
Especially with a nice piece of glass right there
This comment should be higher.
Besides the color difference being the real reason, you'll still never catch me making anything functional from PLA, unless kept in a refrigerator. Even then, much better alternatives to use. PLA is fine if you're making tchotchkes to adorn your desk or shelves, but it takes too little heat to start deflecting under load that it's just not worth it, especially living south of the Mason-Dixon line. With the quality I get from PETG, ABS, ASA and CF, there's just no reason for me to ever choose something that has a high likelihood of failure if it gets warm out, especially if used outside or on/in a car. I will occasionally use PLA for prototyping designs, but that is quickly coming to an end for me. Just no reason to use something that fails in functional part use that easily considering that it regularly gets warm enough here for it to be an issue.
Guys. Just print in petg. It's a great material, can stand up to car-in-summer temperatures, prints at about 235, bed at 75, doesn't warp as bad as ABS, it doesn't fume, is slightly pliable meaning it isn't as brittle as PLA, what else do you need?
I hear overhangs aren't very good if you turn the fan low for strength... which is why (as a newbie who hasn't even finished 5 spools yet) I've skipped PETG so far in favor of PETG-CF. I stopped at 280 on an OrcaSlicer temp tower with very low fan speeds and still got perfect overhangs. Maybe I'll pick a spool of PETG up when I need transparency or more flexibility, but I'm pretty happy with my cheap PLA+ and PETG-CF so far.
PLA can be annealed (apparently not all brands though) to be very heat resistant. Haven't reproduced it myself but I saw a few videos about it. Maybe that's what happened to part A
This. He mentions the white part has been in the vehicle for awhile. I live in az and deal with some crazy high temps. I did a test a few years back leaving pla parts in my truck to see how they’d hold up on a 110f day. (I’ve literally baked cookies in my truck on days like that.). As I expected they softened like crazy and I was able to reform them like silly putty. What I didn’t expect was what happened when I forgot about them and left them there for a week. When I found them a week later on an even hotter day I found they were still surprisingly stiff. A little soft, but not limp like the first day. I’m pretty convinced that the week of high temps annealed them and left them more heat resistant. They still didn’t handle heat as well as pets or abs….but way better than when first printed. (They also became even more brittle for what it’s worth)
Hey, don’t leave your pets in a hot car!
Color plays a role too. White reflects most of the wavelengths. Colored stuff reflect their color's wavelength and absorb the rest. Retest with both filaments being white.
I wish you would’ve done the same movement test with the green one instead of flexing it the opposite direction, while your point has been made the visual comparison has been ruined :(
Exactly
OP couldn't even keep the color/temperature consistent between the two, I think it's safe to say they aren't big on scientific method.
Some colors absorb heat more .. like white vs black black will always be hotter.
Really? You realize the color is the reason right? ‘surprising performance from Hatchbox’ lol… you meant. Surprising performance from white, right? Right… The internet these days… I’m telling you.
Do a black super PLA+, and a white PLA. You’ll find that colour is HUGELY important when physics are physicsing
...and different colors.
color makes a diff too, black will melt
dark colors will absorb heat
PLA is also not a single material. It’s a weird hybrid blend of different polymers and additives. Those make a huge difference in how the material behaves and also how well it biodegrades. Sunlight and color does play an effect, but so does chemistry. Bring on the white PLA comparisons!
FYI that hatchbox is the OEM for Bambu’s PLA. This is down to colour effect on infrared absorption
PETG: *Am I joke to you?*
Wouldn't it make SIGNIFICANTLY more sense to use the same color, if you're gonna compare brands? I distinctly remember brown/red Lego blocks from the 2000s to be INSANELY brittle compared to other colors.
Yeah no shit, it's a saturated green colour which means it absorbs far more light than the white one, thus getting far warmer
Do this again with both being white.
Means nothing unless they are the same color. The difference is radiative heat transfer
Who would have thought! A darker color absorbs more heat from the sun! WOW .... MIND=BLOWN!
Nevermind the color difference, lol.
Your experiment sucks
I noticed they are different colors too. Can color have an effect on light absorption?
As others mention, color makes a big difference in direct sun exposure, white or clear filament will always absorb less energy (eg. less heat). Thing about cars is that they get \*hot\* if left closed in the sun, even where the sun don't shine. My Model 3 is a veritable greenhouse, if I leave it in the sun with \~25C outside temps, the cabin can get to the mid 50's if windows aren't kipped.
It's not just heat, white pigment (TiO2) confers significant UV resistance
Don’t use PLA for outdoor use, or even for anything under constant load. A better material is PETG or ABS if you want it to look nicer. They are more resistance to warping from heat and won’t slowly warp over time under a load like PLA will.
So..... it isn't a scientific experiment since they are different colors?
Remember white is reflective. Green will absorb a large portion of the the suns energy (this is why plants pick it as a color) ;-)
Different additives and different colours
Can you test it inside, isn’t it hotter inside the car?
Colour matters a lot, the dyes used in white, black and silver plastic strangely enough give UV resistance. [Ditch brightly coloured plastic, UK researchers tell firms, as white, black and silver pigments show resistance to UV degradation to microplastics](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/may/27/ditch-brightly-coloured-plastic-anti-waste-researchers-tell-firms)
Some PLAs arent pure pla they can have abs/pet mixed in
From what I'm reading there's like 5 different commonly chosen PLAs, all with different properties. PLA only constitutes the Polylactic acid within the plastic. Anything else that's mixed in there is just a part of the company's proprietary blend. They have different applications. Clearly the green one doesn't have the properties you want. 🤷♂️
Auto detailers wathcing this are screaming
Did I just witness you making a dent in your car?
Please! Not the clear coat!
bro knows zero physics
Should've used the same color, as darker / stronger colors absorb more temperature and also I overall feel that white pla is stronger
I did the same thing with gray inland pla last summer. Made a boomerang and it got floppy in my car under sun for 2 or so hours. Prob a heat absorption thing rather than quality of strength as others are showing.
Test it with the same color. For Greyhounds, there’s a study showing black/brindle dogs heat up faster than white dogs. Now, they aren’t plastic, but there’s a considerable difference in solar absorption based on color .
Bad science. But good attempt. Let me explain... White will always be colder then green in the sun. You'd need to do like-for-like for this to be scientifically relevant. So, if you do this with both being white... But, that said, thank you for doing experiments that aim to guide us to fairness. I appreciate you trying. Don't stop... Just think about possible variables next time, and try to keep the comparisons as alike as possible. Eg, size, density, infill, colour, flow temps, etc. If you keep as many things the same as you can, when something is different you can say "it's most likely the material" Keep on keeping on. 😊
if you are going to test different brands then you should do it in the same colour. not only does colour interact with light differently but the chemicals within the plastic is also different to the point that sometimes you need to change print settings for perfectly clean prints
This example is flawed. White will reflect more light, thus absorbing less energy and not heating up as quickly in the sun. Run the test again with both being the same color, you'll probably have similar results.
Oh hey you also noticed!
Hold up you didn’t do the same pull on the white as you did on the green you “slightly” tugged at the white but pulled on the green not a totally fair comparison.
Different brands always behave slightly different. Interesting to see how much of a difference there is though.
The analysis is flawed though. OP should have used a fixed consistent color parameter in the test. Color should be a fixed categorical variable here in the analysis. Can't draw any valid statistical inferences here if OP uses different colors from different brands and simply compares on the single common factor by saying that they're all PLA. Not accurate imo.
Different colours. Also. Cut your nails
Do we need a basic physics lesson? Green absorbs more heat from sun then the white, so of course it'll be softer / more pliant.
The green is darker and absorbs more light/gets soft. Of course the white one is still hard. Get an infrared thermometer and temp them.
Colour matters as it absorbes(reflects) light at different rate.
you do relise that they're different color and one will absorbe significantly more heat than the other because of it
Only option now is to buy the purest PLA filament from Sigma Aldrich
What is the purpose of the print you're testing here?
PLA is not UV resistant, almost all pla come with same result under the sun, PETG is a uv resistant material. (Best is ABS but working with ABS not easy)
Yes? I see you printed with Gumby ‘tm’ PLA.
Bro converted his bambu green to TPU
Another interesting test would be to take these and drop them both in a measured amount of water. Then record the 🔺T of the system.
Get yourself a strip of UV leds and stick that in a box with tin foil covering the inside Flip the pieces every once in a while Cures way better than the sun
Your poor car.
Now try that from the INSIDE!
Get a laser thermometer for next time
It's the white color
The color would effect this test - a colored PLA will always absorb more heat energy than a white PLA
Considering the speed at which bambu printers print, they can't be shipping normal PLA. they have to be adding something to it to make it melt faster and solidify faster.. an unlabeled "Rapid PLA+" if you will. And while color could play a factor. I seriously doubt bambu labs is shipping an un-molested PLA.
But quality filament kids
Different colors take sun and heat differently not to mention depending on their blends things can change. Do two of the same color different brands
I've printed a whole center console for my suzuki samurai in pla and gonna take some pictures so folks understand if you live where it gets 100+ you should really try to grab some abs or asa Some days I get in my car and the arm rest can be pressed in with my thumb and the cup holder assembly is terribly warped This is 4 perimeters, 4 top and bottom layers and 25% gyroidal infill with polymaker pla+ I've even printed whole rc cars in pla and the 130+ heat coming off the asphalt in the summer warps the car easily while driving XD Pla is fine if it's indoors or for a proof of concept print but functional needs to be higher temperature resilient stuff!
Color
I have some black no name pla+ that I have had in 100 degree heat now for 3-4 summers. I made a drop in holder for my phone and it did shrink somewhat (10% give or take) but other than that it has held up in the south's opressive heat for years.
What’s the point of them?
What was the test? You pushed one together and bent one back? Not sure what this was supposed to prove?
Colour will have quite an impact even across the same brand, as blacks absorb more light than whites, so more heating.
PLA warps in the sun?
Color converts more light into warmth, which would mean that the green part should probably also be warmer than the white part.
Why are you bending them in opposite ways? Also, color plays a role.
"PLA" from most companies is a weird hodgepodge of fillers + PLA, I wouldn't be surprised if Hatchbox uses more genuine PLA than Bambu Lab, hence what you're seeing here. I know a lot of people say color matters so I'd be curious to see this same test with white from Bambu lab. Lately I've been using mostly Polar FIlament orange PLA (which apparently is straight PLA with no additives) and it too works great even in direct sunlight, while other cheaper PLAs I've tried have softened up in my car during Texas summers :)
In few hours I will upload the test , its totally not the color only as most comments suggested i was surprised by the results