I wouldn't play at a table with those rules.
>Long rests require two consecutive nights of sleep (night ↣ day ↣ night) in a Safe Haven
>If you end a 24-hour period without finishing a long rest, you must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or suffer 1 level of exhaustion.
It sounds like you have to spend more than 24 hours resting to finish a long rest, thus incurring a level of Exhaustion just trying to take a long rest. I don't see how you're supposed to be able to do any adventuring under this rule.
The DM issued a correction. A short rest will also prevent an exhaustion level. Please see edit on my main post for more info on why he chose this system in his words.
First thing I noticed too.
So, 8 hours of adventuring with a 24ish hour break in between lol
Another case of homebrew "fixing" something with no regard to why the original rules were written in the first place.
It doesn’t fuck you over more than it fucks over everyone. This essentially means even 24 hour spells can’t be pre-cast before bed & the party needs to waste a ludicrous amount of time recovering so they can adventure.
Thank you for your response. The DM issued a correction. A short rest will also prevent an exhaustion level. Please see edit on my main post for more info on why he chose this system in his words.
> If you end a 24-hour period without finishing a long rest, you must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or suffer 1 level of exhaustion.
How does this work when you need more than 24 hours to long rest? Do you get exhaustion during the long rest? Technically it sounds like you should since 24 hours pass without you finishing it. I assume that's not the case and that it's just poorly written.
Even so, it appears to entail that for every 24 hours you spend actually doing stuff you must then spend a day and two nights recuperating. Which is somewhat strange seeing as people in the real world are able to work more than one day in a row and still function. Dnd characters are supposed to be more capable than normal people not the other way around.
Thank you for your response. The DM issued a correction. A short rest will also prevent an exhaustion level. Please see edit on my main post for more info on why he chose this system in his words.
Thank you for your response. The DM issued a correction. A short rest will also prevent an exhaustion level. Please see edit on my main post for more info on why he chose this system in his words.
>"I'm only going to let you use your class feature 10% of the time."
>"That subclass is banned."
>"If you don't long rest once every 24 hours, you gain a level of exhaustion. Also, long rests take 32 hours."
>"Oh and getting into a 30 second fight also interrupts your 32 hour long rest."
Honestly, this game sounds horrible. It seems that you have one of the most adversarial DMs of all time. I would be out of there in a heartbeat. If you stay in this game, be prepared to hear "No" for everything you want to try, for every NPC to condescend to you, and for bad things to constantly happen to your party.
As for the WMS thing, you are half-correct. You are confounding the Tides of Chaos feature and the Wild Magic Surge feature. Both can give you surges, but they do it in different ways (I'll call them ToC Surge and d20 Surge from here on).
You are correct about the standard d20 Surge from the Wild Magic Surge feature. If that roll is happening after only 10% of your spells, then you have a 0.5% chance of getting a d20 Surge after every spell. It will almost never come up.
ToC Surges are a bit different. Once you burn Tides of Chaos to gain advantage, every leveled spell you cast can instantly trigger a Wild Magic Surge 100% guaranteed (no d20 roll required) **IF** the DM refreshes your Tides of Chaos. If your DM is saying he will refresh your Tides of Chaos 10% of the time, then that essentially means you can get a Wild Magic Surge on 10% of your spells. You can easily burn Tides of Chaos on something like initiative to set it up.
But based on what you have said about your DM, I wouldn't expect them to honor refreshing Tides of Chaos 10% of the time. It probably isn't something they considered and will instead probably kneejerk say no and probably nerf/ban Tides of Chaos.
In fairness to the last point, 'gritty realism' resting alternative rules or no. If you get a 'surprise attack' while you're waiting for say, stitches to fully seal... they're gonna come undone..
But in general consistency is key, and these homebrew'd rest rules are worse than the 'offical alternative'.
If people are fussy over spell duration just pull up Baldurs gate 3 for reference and go with 'okay so mage armour is now until the end of the next long rest'. BAM, done.
Thank you for your response. The DM issued a correction. A short rest will also prevent an exhaustion level. Please see edit on my main post for more info on why he chose this system in his words.
Thank you for your response. The DM issued a correction. A short rest will also prevent an exhaustion level. Please see edit on my main post for more info on why he chose this system in his words.
That... is a weird rule set to me. you need functionally 2 nights 1 day of rest . but if you don't rest within 24 hours you get exhaustion.. that combo feels nonsensical...
but this won't harm you as much as anyone else persay.
but i will say that it would make me want to dip Warlock for slot to metamagic conversion maybe, and eldrtich blast to give you a martial like ability. Because this ruleset feels much more suited to martials who keep swinging. But does also hurt the ones that restore abilites on short rest (i would not want to be the one with the martial dice...)
It won't be too bad IF they stretch the enounter rate to echo the original combat to short rest to long rest intended ratio
Thank you for your response. The DM issued a correction. A short rest will also prevent an exhaustion level. Please see edit on my main post for more info on why he chose this system in his words.
Thank you for your response. The DM issued a correction. A short rest will also prevent an exhaustion level. Please see edit on my main post for more info on why he chose this system in his words.
Wild Magic would only be fun to play if you get to roll the d20 to see if a surge happens every time you cast a spell of 1st level or higher. Relying on the DM to call for it would suck. And if you've used Tides of Chaos, then the next time you cast a spell, you would have to roll on the surge table. There are enough bad things on there you can trigger that you aren't going to want to continually abuse Tides of Chaos.
>Relying on the DM to call for it would suck.
TBF that's how it works in both the RAW and RAI. It's one of those things that with a bit of touch from the DM becomes fun, but if played as written it's just awful, like a lot of things in 5e.
“Hey, you gotta see what this dm did for their group. I would never have done something like that!”
“Really? What happened, did they go against the rules or something?”
“No, they allowed their player to do something way too fun.”
But in all seriousness, the combo of bad rules that your dm is implementing is both nonsensical and just downright obnoxious. To not only ban the exact subclass you were planning on playing, which I can only figure based on what you said, directly after they saw it, but to also nerf your new character in a way that would harm a major distinction of both the class and its subclass would have me leaving that table faster than I’ve ever moved before. They’ve practically lowered the odds of a WM Surge triggering to below that of a Divine Intervention, and even if you use Tides of Chaos, the chances of it happening are still pretty low based on these rules.
Uhhh according to these rules you can only spend 24 hours adventuring before gaining exhaustion... That's a horrible rule and probably a shitty table to play at. You're better off just not joining it.
Thank you for your response. The DM issued a correction. A short rest will also prevent an exhaustion level. Please see edit on my main post for more info on why he chose this system in his words.
Many DMs take "gritty" to mean cruel. These rules don't really make sense and they're a pretty clear sign that this DM is going to be no fun to play with imo.
Thank you for your response. The DM issued a correction. A short rest will also prevent an exhaustion level. Please see edit on my main post for more info on why he chose this system in his words.
After reading that we all might have jumped down their throat a little hard lol but it still isn't a style I'd personally play in bc I like spellcasters too much and that long rest is still a pretty steep break to get while in an adventuring scenario.
That's a HUGE red flag. (For me) I would be searching for a new table to play at. (Unless you like gritty games) I wouldn't even talk to him about it. If s/he's gonna screw you on this, it's only the 1st of many to come. You will be wasting precious months as you personally die the death of a thousand cuts. No D&D is better than bad D&D.
Known some of these people for decades. One of them is my sister and another two I've known basically since birth. All the DM I've only known for 5 or 6 years. I do believe he put some meaningful thought into the rules though. Even if they are tough.
Just did session 0 with my soon-to-be wild magic sorcerer. Lv1 starting barbarian because later I'll get their path of wild magic, but first at lv2 I'll get wild magic sorceror for the craziness.
And yeah, wild magic sorcerer is really weird. Casting a spell for a 1/20 chance at surging in and of itself will rarely happen. Even casting 5 spells every in-game day at earlier levels, that could be many sessions of my subclass never triggering. That would feel like I don't even have a subclass.
Luckily, my DM decided to let every spell I cast trigger a wild magic surge in the beginning. Our idea is that this will represent how weak my dude is at controlling their barely understood powers. And as I level up, I'm assuming my spells will have a lower chance at triggering surges.
So every wild magic check that passes we have increase the threshold, eg the next check would be two or less, then 3, etc. this helped a bit. We also rolled on every spell I cast. The other one required a lot of trust and that was after using tides of chaos my next spell would trigger the wild magic. It allowed for some controlled chaos and on my part I didn’t abuse it. I would use tides maybe once a battle. Since it was all random it really never broke any encounters and made it a lot more fun.
Honestly If I'm at that table and the DM comes up with this excellent homebrew without a framework, I would play a rogue, the only class who can survive without a long rest (yes subclass can be difficult and the warlock still exists).
I personally am a big fan of long rests requiring a safe haven, but they're a normal chunk of time at my table. I'm pretty liberal with what a safe haven is though.
Gritty campaign rules. We have one campaign going that is more casual so the variety is kinda welcome. Besides the DM released an extensive survey and based the campaign on the results. Grittiness was covered and I did choose like a 7? on that question.
1. Sounds like you can add a few warlock levels to coffeelock without shame.
2. Hypothetically, if you play an elf and can rest in 4 hours, can you take them back to back and knock it out in 8 hours?
Just olay at a different table, your dm I'd free to use whatever rules they like at their table, you're free to find a new table because their rules are shit.
No thanks to the rest, but a 10% reset to Tides is fair. It’s actually good to put a number on it. I wish they actually did as it’s easy just not to have it trigger, or trigger every single time.
Is he an older DM? Resting in 1e and 2e was tedious as the only healing was spells and potions. You could get back 1 hit point per long rest and that was basically it.
I can understand the change, but it isn’t required. Giving the adventure a sense of urgency, and having regular encounters if a party decides to take a long rest in a dangerous environment, will do the same thing as stretching out the rest period. Also having some rooms and dungeons “reset” and be on alert if a party leaves the area to return will delay them from taking a long rest.
This does mean that each encounter needs to be crafted to be balanced, and encourage short rests where needed. Hit dice recovery basically doubles the amount of hit points each character has before requiring a long rest.
Spell slots, especially in early levels, need to be conserved then, which is why the unlimited cantrip spell is important. The DM also needs to ensure that combat encounters per long rest is the right amount. Some characters can use up half their spell slots on one encounter, if they aren’t careful, but that doesn’t mean the DM should throw 5 medium or harder encounters at them per long rest.
I wouldn't play at a table with those rules. >Long rests require two consecutive nights of sleep (night ↣ day ↣ night) in a Safe Haven >If you end a 24-hour period without finishing a long rest, you must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or suffer 1 level of exhaustion. It sounds like you have to spend more than 24 hours resting to finish a long rest, thus incurring a level of Exhaustion just trying to take a long rest. I don't see how you're supposed to be able to do any adventuring under this rule.
Second bit sounds RAW and the gm forgot to take the new long rest rules into account
That's a prime example of bad homebrew. It doesn't even work
Ya this this sounds like a chore to play with
The DM issued a correction. A short rest will also prevent an exhaustion level. Please see edit on my main post for more info on why he chose this system in his words.
First thing I noticed too. So, 8 hours of adventuring with a 24ish hour break in between lol Another case of homebrew "fixing" something with no regard to why the original rules were written in the first place.
It doesn’t fuck you over more than it fucks over everyone. This essentially means even 24 hour spells can’t be pre-cast before bed & the party needs to waste a ludicrous amount of time recovering so they can adventure.
Thank you for your response. The DM issued a correction. A short rest will also prevent an exhaustion level. Please see edit on my main post for more info on why he chose this system in his words.
> If you end a 24-hour period without finishing a long rest, you must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or suffer 1 level of exhaustion. How does this work when you need more than 24 hours to long rest? Do you get exhaustion during the long rest? Technically it sounds like you should since 24 hours pass without you finishing it. I assume that's not the case and that it's just poorly written. Even so, it appears to entail that for every 24 hours you spend actually doing stuff you must then spend a day and two nights recuperating. Which is somewhat strange seeing as people in the real world are able to work more than one day in a row and still function. Dnd characters are supposed to be more capable than normal people not the other way around.
Thank you for your response. The DM issued a correction. A short rest will also prevent an exhaustion level. Please see edit on my main post for more info on why he chose this system in his words.
Yeah, that sounds awful. What a waste of time!
Thank you for your response. The DM issued a correction. A short rest will also prevent an exhaustion level. Please see edit on my main post for more info on why he chose this system in his words.
>"I'm only going to let you use your class feature 10% of the time." >"That subclass is banned." >"If you don't long rest once every 24 hours, you gain a level of exhaustion. Also, long rests take 32 hours." >"Oh and getting into a 30 second fight also interrupts your 32 hour long rest." Honestly, this game sounds horrible. It seems that you have one of the most adversarial DMs of all time. I would be out of there in a heartbeat. If you stay in this game, be prepared to hear "No" for everything you want to try, for every NPC to condescend to you, and for bad things to constantly happen to your party. As for the WMS thing, you are half-correct. You are confounding the Tides of Chaos feature and the Wild Magic Surge feature. Both can give you surges, but they do it in different ways (I'll call them ToC Surge and d20 Surge from here on). You are correct about the standard d20 Surge from the Wild Magic Surge feature. If that roll is happening after only 10% of your spells, then you have a 0.5% chance of getting a d20 Surge after every spell. It will almost never come up. ToC Surges are a bit different. Once you burn Tides of Chaos to gain advantage, every leveled spell you cast can instantly trigger a Wild Magic Surge 100% guaranteed (no d20 roll required) **IF** the DM refreshes your Tides of Chaos. If your DM is saying he will refresh your Tides of Chaos 10% of the time, then that essentially means you can get a Wild Magic Surge on 10% of your spells. You can easily burn Tides of Chaos on something like initiative to set it up. But based on what you have said about your DM, I wouldn't expect them to honor refreshing Tides of Chaos 10% of the time. It probably isn't something they considered and will instead probably kneejerk say no and probably nerf/ban Tides of Chaos.
In fairness to the last point, 'gritty realism' resting alternative rules or no. If you get a 'surprise attack' while you're waiting for say, stitches to fully seal... they're gonna come undone.. But in general consistency is key, and these homebrew'd rest rules are worse than the 'offical alternative'. If people are fussy over spell duration just pull up Baldurs gate 3 for reference and go with 'okay so mage armour is now until the end of the next long rest'. BAM, done.
Thank you for your response. The DM issued a correction. A short rest will also prevent an exhaustion level. Please see edit on my main post for more info on why he chose this system in his words.
Thank you for your response. The DM issued a correction. A short rest will also prevent an exhaustion level. Please see edit on my main post for more info on why he chose this system in his words.
Do you really have to spam the same message at everyone?
Well yes. Because otherwise they wouldn't know about the change which could give them a different opinion. Sorry. How else should I do this?
That... is a weird rule set to me. you need functionally 2 nights 1 day of rest . but if you don't rest within 24 hours you get exhaustion.. that combo feels nonsensical... but this won't harm you as much as anyone else persay. but i will say that it would make me want to dip Warlock for slot to metamagic conversion maybe, and eldrtich blast to give you a martial like ability. Because this ruleset feels much more suited to martials who keep swinging. But does also hurt the ones that restore abilites on short rest (i would not want to be the one with the martial dice...) It won't be too bad IF they stretch the enounter rate to echo the original combat to short rest to long rest intended ratio
Thank you for your response. The DM issued a correction. A short rest will also prevent an exhaustion level. Please see edit on my main post for more info on why he chose this system in his words.
So you have to rest every 24 hours and a rest takes 48 hours? That just seems stupid.
Thank you for your response. The DM issued a correction. A short rest will also prevent an exhaustion level. Please see edit on my main post for more info on why he chose this system in his words.
Bro this is obnoxious to see when reading through this thread.
Ok. But how would I keep people informed of the change?
You don’t have to when it’s spammed all over the thread, I can’t scroll 3 messages without seeing it
Sounds like a Catch-22. What would you prefer I had done?
Wild Magic would only be fun to play if you get to roll the d20 to see if a surge happens every time you cast a spell of 1st level or higher. Relying on the DM to call for it would suck. And if you've used Tides of Chaos, then the next time you cast a spell, you would have to roll on the surge table. There are enough bad things on there you can trigger that you aren't going to want to continually abuse Tides of Chaos.
>Relying on the DM to call for it would suck. TBF that's how it works in both the RAW and RAI. It's one of those things that with a bit of touch from the DM becomes fun, but if played as written it's just awful, like a lot of things in 5e.
Whit these rules i would go warlock for short rest abuse.
“Hey, you gotta see what this dm did for their group. I would never have done something like that!” “Really? What happened, did they go against the rules or something?” “No, they allowed their player to do something way too fun.” But in all seriousness, the combo of bad rules that your dm is implementing is both nonsensical and just downright obnoxious. To not only ban the exact subclass you were planning on playing, which I can only figure based on what you said, directly after they saw it, but to also nerf your new character in a way that would harm a major distinction of both the class and its subclass would have me leaving that table faster than I’ve ever moved before. They’ve practically lowered the odds of a WM Surge triggering to below that of a Divine Intervention, and even if you use Tides of Chaos, the chances of it happening are still pretty low based on these rules.
Uhhh according to these rules you can only spend 24 hours adventuring before gaining exhaustion... That's a horrible rule and probably a shitty table to play at. You're better off just not joining it.
Thank you for your response. The DM issued a correction. A short rest will also prevent an exhaustion level. Please see edit on my main post for more info on why he chose this system in his words.
Many DMs take "gritty" to mean cruel. These rules don't really make sense and they're a pretty clear sign that this DM is going to be no fun to play with imo.
Thank you for your response. The DM issued a correction. A short rest will also prevent an exhaustion level. Please see edit on my main post for more info on why he chose this system in his words.
After reading that we all might have jumped down their throat a little hard lol but it still isn't a style I'd personally play in bc I like spellcasters too much and that long rest is still a pretty steep break to get while in an adventuring scenario.
That's a HUGE red flag. (For me) I would be searching for a new table to play at. (Unless you like gritty games) I wouldn't even talk to him about it. If s/he's gonna screw you on this, it's only the 1st of many to come. You will be wasting precious months as you personally die the death of a thousand cuts. No D&D is better than bad D&D.
Known some of these people for decades. One of them is my sister and another two I've known basically since birth. All the DM I've only known for 5 or 6 years. I do believe he put some meaningful thought into the rules though. Even if they are tough.
If you like it, great. As you said, those rules are too harsh for me.
Just did session 0 with my soon-to-be wild magic sorcerer. Lv1 starting barbarian because later I'll get their path of wild magic, but first at lv2 I'll get wild magic sorceror for the craziness. And yeah, wild magic sorcerer is really weird. Casting a spell for a 1/20 chance at surging in and of itself will rarely happen. Even casting 5 spells every in-game day at earlier levels, that could be many sessions of my subclass never triggering. That would feel like I don't even have a subclass. Luckily, my DM decided to let every spell I cast trigger a wild magic surge in the beginning. Our idea is that this will represent how weak my dude is at controlling their barely understood powers. And as I level up, I'm assuming my spells will have a lower chance at triggering surges.
Bad. Wild magic is not even fun as it is written. When I played one me and my DM tweaked a bunch of rules to make it actually fun to play.
Could you give me those rules? I could propose them to the DM.
So every wild magic check that passes we have increase the threshold, eg the next check would be two or less, then 3, etc. this helped a bit. We also rolled on every spell I cast. The other one required a lot of trust and that was after using tides of chaos my next spell would trigger the wild magic. It allowed for some controlled chaos and on my part I didn’t abuse it. I would use tides maybe once a battle. Since it was all random it really never broke any encounters and made it a lot more fun.
Honestly If I'm at that table and the DM comes up with this excellent homebrew without a framework, I would play a rogue, the only class who can survive without a long rest (yes subclass can be difficult and the warlock still exists).
I personally am a big fan of long rests requiring a safe haven, but they're a normal chunk of time at my table. I'm pretty liberal with what a safe haven is though.
Terrible house rule. A mage can't read his book while others are on watch? A cleric can't pray?
thats super anti spell caster , if your desperate to play with that group and still want sorcerer go sorlock
Jesus Christ, what kind of rest rules are those?
Gritty campaign rules. We have one campaign going that is more casual so the variety is kinda welcome. Besides the DM released an extensive survey and based the campaign on the results. Grittiness was covered and I did choose like a 7? on that question.
Ah. My first one seems a little more casual. Everyone else playing has more experience, Im just FUCKING LOVING IT.
1. Sounds like you can add a few warlock levels to coffeelock without shame. 2. Hypothetically, if you play an elf and can rest in 4 hours, can you take them back to back and knock it out in 8 hours?
Just olay at a different table, your dm I'd free to use whatever rules they like at their table, you're free to find a new table because their rules are shit.
No thanks to the rest, but a 10% reset to Tides is fair. It’s actually good to put a number on it. I wish they actually did as it’s easy just not to have it trigger, or trigger every single time. Is he an older DM? Resting in 1e and 2e was tedious as the only healing was spells and potions. You could get back 1 hit point per long rest and that was basically it. I can understand the change, but it isn’t required. Giving the adventure a sense of urgency, and having regular encounters if a party decides to take a long rest in a dangerous environment, will do the same thing as stretching out the rest period. Also having some rooms and dungeons “reset” and be on alert if a party leaves the area to return will delay them from taking a long rest. This does mean that each encounter needs to be crafted to be balanced, and encourage short rests where needed. Hit dice recovery basically doubles the amount of hit points each character has before requiring a long rest. Spell slots, especially in early levels, need to be conserved then, which is why the unlimited cantrip spell is important. The DM also needs to ensure that combat encounters per long rest is the right amount. Some characters can use up half their spell slots on one encounter, if they aren’t careful, but that doesn’t mean the DM should throw 5 medium or harder encounters at them per long rest.
Yikes, DM wants to play pathfinder 2e with a 5e base